Hidden True Crime - New Hit Pieces on the Biggest Hollywood Disaster Ever?! | Talking Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively with Dave Neal

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

After diving in deep to the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni Saga, Lauren invited Dave Neal on the pod to discuss everything from the initial filings, to how the case will resolve, and even the differences in main stream media coverage vs. content creator coverage. Get the sleep you deserve with up to 35% off Dream. Just click https://shopbeam.com/hiddentruecrime and use code TRUECRIME at checkout. Where you can find Dave: www.youtube.com/@DaveNealComedian  https://www.instagram.com/dnealz/ https://episodes.fm/1651903715 https://www.patreon.com/daveneal About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, Hidden Gems. We have a very special episode for you today. Something we've actually not done a lot before. I want to introduce you to Dave, my new friend Dave Neal. And Dave is someone that I reached out to and said, Dave, you've got to come on our podcast because many of you know, especially if you follow me on Instagram or behind the scenes, I have been sharing sort of my interest, I guess you should say, in the Blake lively, Justin Baldoni. What do you call it, Dave? A fiasco, a saga. Yeah, warring lawsuits.

Yeah, the hundreds of millions of dollar lawsuits that they're firing at each other. Okay, okay, there you go. And I have listened, and I said this to you, Dave, right before you started, but I'll say it again. I've listened to every creator on the lawsuits between these two Hollywood stars or three, plus publicists, plus the New York Times,

plus whoever else has been dragged into it. And I have been tuning into you Dave every day for quite a while now. And I feel like you have been a very nuanced, very balanced, very balanced voice in this whole thing. I've appreciated talking to you. And I keep telling our audience here, you know, I think I'm going to delve into this. I think I'm going to delve into this. And I thought, you know, let's do it with Dave. And so I reached out to you and I was like, would you want to come on?

a true crime podcast. I know you're more, you do some crime. This is crime. Sure. It's not, you know, I told you that we actually usually cover more of the tragic, the murders, the death, the destruction. But this is certainly crime related and it's certainly psychological. You know, you could look at it this way.

Blake tried to murder Justin Baldoni's career. So that's your true crime element. No, it's good to be here. Thanks so much for the support. I mean, I don't know anything about lawsuits or anything like that other than this last case I covered where I was threatened with a bunch of lawsuits, which is what happens when you do a good deed. You get sued. And so I know a thing or two about the court system now. Oh, well, there you go.

Well, welcome. Yeah, sometimes you learn it in the most interesting ways. You know, I, so let me tell our audience this too, because many people have been asking, Dr. John. is going down the Blake lively rabbit hole. Justin Baldoni rabbit hole. My husband, the psychologist, he was going to jump on with Dave, but he is taking his research seriously. So he is not quite ready. So it's going to be you and I talking. And I want to just jump in and share with people where I am. I want to talk about, I mean, this case has everything. And you have been bringing daily updates. Tell people where we can find you to, by the way. I want our audience.

to start listening to you to get updated on this. Yeah, I'm doing things a little differently in the podcasting YouTube world where I'm doing short podcast twice a day. So that's why I call it the morning rush and then the afternoon. So I'm giving everyone as most up-to-date information as I can. And they're just 25-minute episodes. I like to see myself as that guy that'll sit with you on the bus to work, keep you informed. Water cooler stories, everything from pop culture to some fun nature stories.

and then I save the political stories for the end for those that don't want them. So just try to give everybody a little bit of everything you should need to know, what's going on with Taylor Swift and all the big stories. And of course, you know,

maybe the unraveling of democracy. A little bit of everything. A little bit of everything. So you keep us updated on pop culture and as you said, a little bit of everything. And like I said, we cover trials, murder trials, and psychology.

So we definitely probably, I hope this is the first of many collaborations because I think we can definitely benefit from one another. So thank you, I love the talk. I'm no expert in psychology, but I love the element of why people did what they did. I think what I've learned is you get fans sort of riled up when you discuss like if you do believe Blake lively was the person who made some things up, well, why did she do that? You know, most people operate with their best intentions. Not everybody. There are psycho and so-so sociopaths out there, but like, why do people do what they do? And I like to, even if I don't,

even if I'm not giving them a pass, I'd like to give them a little grace to go, you know, what was, what was happening here? And, you know, with Blake lively in this case, she was like months after having a baby and then she's supposed to be in these intimate scenes in a movie. And you could just tell that there was probably a ton of anxiety going on. And then what was the sort of catalyst that led to this becoming one of the biggest sort of PR disasters in modern, in Hollywood history, really. You just nailed it. Exactly.

And what hidden true crime does is we cover those hidden motives. That's exactly what we do. We say the Dateline covers sex, power, money. But what are the hidden motives? What is really driving someone behind what they do psychologically? So yeah, and I think you are curious. You are a curious mind. And I can tell that you're thinking about that all the time.

And you do put yourself in other people's shoes. And so I'm going to start, I'm just going to lay it out on the table, Dave, because this is what everyone wants to know. What side is hidden true crime on or what side am I on? And first off, I want to say, I am going to go wherever the evidence leads. So when I say, what side am I on? I'm on the side of evidence. And I am on the side of where the evidence is at this moment, given moment, and change my mind. It has been changed several times. In fact, I have been following this case since before the New York Times article. I was fed an algorithm of videos about Blake lively, who I never really cared that much about in my stream.

And I even wondered why I texted a group text and said, does anybody else's algorithm like feeding them Blake lively stuff? Because I don't care and I don't know why. And someone said, well, I think it's because her new movie is about to come out. And then what did I start doing? I finally started consuming the, uh, the stuff in my feeds because I thought someone really wants me to see this. And I did, I guess you could see I saw what seemed like a little bit of an internet smear campaign against Blake lively, how she was marketing this movie. And I care very much about domestic violence victims.

And so it was upsetting to me to see how she was handling it versus the director who was coming out and saying, who was saying, you know, this is about domestic violence survivors. And I thought, wow, I like this guy. Fast forward. The New York. Times article comes out and I quickly read it subscriber of the New York Times, love the New York Times, and I thought I'd been had. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. This is I, I, this is terrible. And you know what? Actually, I could see this. This guy is touting that he's this, you know, feminist and helps women and he's new agey. I even thought, okay, wow. You know, I don't really even like Blake Lively that much after all of those videos I saw of her. She's not my favorite

person. But oh my goodness, it makes sense now. I've been had the algorithm was feeding me a smear campaign brought on by publicists. And I was all team Blake lively. Yeah, you know, we feel gaslighted possibly. You go, you question your reality. You go, was I was, did I feel this way because of the algorithm? And you start to question, you know, we all know the algorithms can be pushed in different directions. And then New York Times article did a damn good job of framing it, you know, with the evidence they showed that he was, he really colluded to make her life a living hell, which again, he would have no motivation to do that. He's got everything at stake for this movie. But yeah, I think it's a good example of audiences having their critical thinking skills because

they did receive new information and change their opinion. And then, of course, they would shift later on. You're exactly right. Right. And I think that's another reason I've been drawn to sort of this saga or these lawsuits because it is making me question my own critical thinking skills and how I'm receiving information, how I'm giving information back into the world to as someone that has been following this. I haven't covered it until this very moment, until I got Dave Neal's attention and forced you to come on, coerced you to come on my podcast because there is a part of me that thought, I just need to lean back for a little bit to process how I'm taking this in, how I'm going to deliver this information. And so I have read all of the lawsuits. I want everyone to

know. I have, I have gone back and forth. So then after I read the Justin Baldoni lawsuit, I became Team Justin. I will admit that. But I was still confused because I thought, well, I know these smear campaigns happen. I need to be very careful here. So I watched a lot of Pro Blake Lively podcast, which I am very appreciative or out there to make me think and to make me question my own biases and to get my confirmation bias in check, I'm going to be honest where I stand right now. Today, on this date, officially, on March 25th, 2025, I guess you could say I'm Team Baldoni. I think that there has been a smear campaign against him to ruin his career. And I do think that Blake lively and Ryan Reynolds had things to gain.

So that is where I am. The interesting thing about the Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively case, is that there were often witnesses. This happened on the set of a movie set, and the things that she claims in her lawsuit can be seen on film, or there are other witnesses involved.

Even at the one time where there was a moment at Blake Lively's house when Justin Baldoni was in. invited over there, there were other witnesses. So we can sort of be able to assess with like receipts and, you know, collaborations of other witnesses, what was really going on. And that's, I think, what makes this case really interesting too, is we can be like, okay, uh, let's see. Let's find out. What are other people saying? But I want to know also your thing. Like, what was it about this that interested you so much that you've kept going and going? Well, I'm

been covering pop culture for a while, but when the, I don't always dabble in like the pure gossip. There was so much gossiping happening about this before the lawsuits where, you know, you're reading it, well, all of the cast members unfollow Justin Baldoni. That alone to me goes, he's guilty because why would that happen? So, you know, you just kind of clock that and then you realize afterwards and dive deeper into, Oh man, I mean, if someone told me that their boss was a creep and this and that, I would believe my friend. I wouldn't go to the boss to question them. So I kind of believe everybody thought they were on the right side because Blake probably told them in confidence, hey, this is what's going on.

Of course, Blake and Ryan, it's no conspiracy to know that they are on the top of the food chain at one of the biggest, you know, now the biggest agency in the world, WME group. They were just bought for like $25 billion by private equity. And Ari Emanuel himself is a billionaire, their agent. So Justin's dropped and they kind of go, well, this guy's a creep. We're not going to comment on it. And then when the New York Times article comes out, they make a couple comments. Colleen defends the writer of the book defends Blake Lively. And then Brandon Sclenar makes a comment.

And then once Justin's side is response, once he responds to me, I think that's when the cast and crew go, oh, or mainly the cast, they go, oh, shoot, are we, are we the one who were gaslighted? And at that point, they've been radio silence, which I think tells a big story, including Taylor Swift, radio silence. Well, not only is Taylor Swift and radio silence, she's going out with Selena Gomez. To me, I think that's, those are those little nuggets she leaves because Selena's never liked Blake lively. And they've never been like a trio, but like Selena is like Taylor's go-to girl. Like it's, you know, that old friend you always have, you might not see him for like six

years, but then when like crap hit the fan, you're like, I got a call. That dude, you know? That's like, I think Selena and Taylor, like they go way back. And the fact that like things happened, the dragon text came out. And the next thing we know is Selena and Taylor are getting cocktails. I'm like, you know what's interesting is there's a lot of anti-Taylor Swift. Like a lot of the pro just in Baldoni crowd don't like Taylor Swift as well. I'm a huge Taylor Swift fan.

You know, short, she's, she's, she's the biggest, right? She's the biggest pop star in the universe. She can sell out anywhere, any stadium she wants to. Just spin the globe. She's going to sell out. She's incredible. There's literal terrorist attacks being planned at her venues because she's just so big. And sadly, she has to deal with craziness.

Like she had to deal with a terror attack at a Taylor Swift themed party. She had nothing to do with. But she's incredibly large for her whole entire adult life, including her teen life. she's had to deal with people using her name for their own benefit. She's had to deal with the scooter bronze and all these other scenarios where people are out to get her and really siphon the joy out of her for other people's benefit. So for her to have a friend like Blake lively in my head and think that you've got a friend that you trust and then you find out that your friend is leveraging your power, your goodwill and your good deeds,

your championing of Blake as a way to like sort of, you know, have some power and equity in negotiating. I'm sure that that really hurt her. I'm sure, you know, you got to imagine if you're a pop star of that caliber, you probably got eight people in your life. You got, you got Travis Kelsey, you got your parents. You have on one hand people you trust in one, 20% of those people are now, or even more, if you want to include Brian Reynolds, people that you invited into your tight-knit circle are leveraging you for their own good. I got to imagine their own benefit. I agree. Very tough. I think she was, I agree. And I am team Taylor Swift, too.

I don't think she had anything to do with this. I think she was invited over to that house. And I think she was rightfully upset when she learned that her name was being used in the so-called dragon text. In other words, saying, like, I've got a dragon and it's Taylor Swift. If this goes to trial, Taylor Swift will be deposed. I think the deadline is August 14th. So the trial would be March of 2026. So they have all the discovery.

And that would be end of the summer. That's why I think it settles before then because I don't see a scenario where someone like her is going to be like, is going to want to be put through that. But I also know Taylor Swift is not going to lie in any way whatsoever for Blake lively. She's going to have to tell the truth and just let let the chips fall as they may. And if Blake is being honest with herself, and if she did bend the truth and share half truths, we're going to find that. We're going to find all that out. And it's going to be, I mean, it'll be the biggest deposition we've ever seen. It will be.

And, you know, this is exactly what Taylor Swift tries to avoid to. So trust me, I do not think she was a part of this in any way. Now, but I believe Taylor Swift was gassing up Blake lively. I believe Blake was like, oh, they don't know anything. Like there's been cast members that, you know, or crew members that have, you know, unnamed come out and said, look, the set was kind of a disaster. Like, Justin didn't really know what he was. doing. And that's okay. Look, it's his movie. You signed on to it. We've all, I've been on student

films where I'm like, oh my God, you're using the wrong lens. You got to put the light over there. I've been in those situations. At some point, you've got to grit your teeth and just let them do their thing. And so maybe he wasn't, but he has directed several shorts before and maybe even a feature. So the guy's not like, you know, right out of NYU, but Blake Lively's been on a lot of films. And she probably felt like, you know, to put myself in her, in her, you know, kind of her perspective, She probably felt like he was going to botch this thing. They had different creative thoughts. And in the end, she was able to get her edit, not his,

even though his edit scored higher with neutral audiences when they did screen testing. So, you know, I'm sure Blake lively is talking to Taylor Swift and Taylor's saying, look, you know, you're worth more than an actor. You know, actors, you know, they always want to get into producing and directing because they're just somebody who has to stand on a line and memorize these words. And it's sometimes it's gratifying and sometimes it's not. And I'm sure she felt as though she wasn't being listened to and heard. And my only response to that is, well, you know, go the Reese Witherspoon route and go get yourself, you know, the contracts where you control film projects.

It's just not yours. So go go take the change and go somewhere else and find and go option out your own projects. Now she had like a handful of projects in the works that all fell through where, that was the case. But what she said in interviews, Blake lively did, was I don't like to write. I don't like to create. I just like to like, you know, kind of make it my own at the end. And it's like, yeah, look, when you're in a scene, you'll do five takes the director's way and then they'll say, here's one for the actor. And they give you a take. That way you feel like you got to do it your way. Maybe they'll use it. They probably won't. But it's their way of saying,

all right, you know, it's like letting your kid pick out one item at the store. It gets them off your bad. Give it a shot. Yeah. It's just a scratch legal. But I get it. Look, we've all been there. The director's like say it this way. That's what the line is. You got to say it. And you're like, well, I want to, I really don't want to be doing that. These aren't people that want to be told what to do. And we saw it in one of the clips where she's trying to tell Justin Baldoni, hey, the lights over there. You should be standing over there. And Justin's like, it's supposed to be backlit. Like, I got it. Thank you. I remember that. That was a moment. That was a moment where that was the scene there she, you know,

she accused Justin Baldoni of sexual harassment. It's an uncomfortable scene to watch because she does admittedly look uncomfortable. But he kind of seems uncomfortable. too. Like she is trying to direct. Whatever, whatever your takeaway of that scene is, she is trying to direct and says the lighting is bad, this is bad, shoot this, shoot that. And you can tell, you know, it's definitely uncomfortable, but you can tell, I think he's trying to just get her to. Yeah, it's so silly, right? It's a flashback scene. They have, you know, they want the lighting behind him. They want this. They have a very stylized idea. It's the easiest scene in the world to shoot. And she's like, oh, we're not doing it right. He's like, good. There's no,

there's literally nothing creative that this scene needs. Just pan up, get your shoes in the shot, and do the scene. And I guess the question to ask a psychologist would be, what kind of trigger do you feel when you're told no, especially if you're someone who's already wildly insecure? And again, a lot of people don't like to hear this, but if you've had a baby, if you've got postpartum, anxiety, if you've got whatever issues you might have, is being told no and creatively being told no? Is that something enough that could set someone off? Maybe she'd did feel super creepy and latch on to, oh my gosh, he tried to kiss me. What? And then Ryan Reynolds, he did what? You know, maybe you do latch on to a quarter truth and pull it in your direction

because you felt jaded. And maybe that's not a conscious thing you're doing, even though their collateral damages, you don't ruin a guy's career because of that. Right. Right. We do not know what Blake Liley was feeling in that scene at all. She did look uncomfortable. I know, Dr. John, we need Dr. John. No, he has not seen that scene yet. I'm like making him. I'm, forcing my husband to like read the lawsuits. I have an order of everything. He's got all the material from me. First lawsuits, the New York Times. He's got to read the Hollywood Reporter. I have all of this material. Then we're going to sit down and watch that scene being one of them. That's why we're waiting for him to be up to date before we go full in. But we'll have

to have you back when he's ready. It's fascinating, right? Because you have the inkblot test where you're looking at it. And I, to be quite honest, I respect that you thought she was, I didn't think that at all. I saw a scene where his characters, going in for the kiss and she's starting to pull away and they're doing that tension before the next scene where they rip their clothes off like that's how i saw it and and it's like you know with these intimacy coordinators none of that is written in the script but the director in their discretion knows the tone that they're going for what would improve this in the future is having an intimacy coordinated there every day so that when you plan out every scene right before you shoot it there's

always the rehearsals you're blocking rehearsal for the cameras then you actually run it and then you tape it and all of that is having you got to have the I mean for three 400 bucks a day they could have solved this whole thing if they just got everything signed off of but this wasn't a scene that was supposed to be super intimate so it wasn't a scene where they thought they needed it but you know here we are right now and he was trying to get her to stop talking you could tell she was trying to control it so while i admit that she looked uncomfortable i also see that she was trying to control the scene and he was trying to just handle things thus everyone seemed uncomfortable and you know and then she said he should have gotten a nose job. But I have questions to the other crazy thing about this. I shouldn't say crazy.

Truly fascinating, interesting thing to me is how different creators in the media and people are covering this case. And it could be, I keep calling it a case. We cover cases, you know, the lawsuits, soon to be trial, the saga, whatever you want to call this. I think one reason I've been holding back too is because I'll be honest, I, while I do see Justin Baldoni being a victim

in this case strongly, I'm going to admit it. It's going to take a lot of evidence for me at this point, by the way, to get me back. But I'll go back if the evidence presents itself. I'll go Team Blake lively if the evidence presents itself. But I am very much believing that Justin Baldoni is a victim in this situation, but but and I want to ask you about this,

I do have a hard time with a lot of the misogyny that I see involved in a lot of the creators because there is sort of this attempt to like take down the Me Too movement or say that all women are lying or make this political in that see the feminist movement is botched or mainstream media got it wrong. And I'm like, I don't want to participate in some rhetoric that's happening online. But I do want to participate

in the psychological elements of this and in critical thinking, and in following the evidence and in seeing some really fascinating motives, which is what Hidden True Crime covers, which is why we're going to cover this. I want everyone to know. We are covering this because it fits into what we do here

at Hidden True Crime, and we do believe that we are going to add value to this conversation. So I want to ask you, Dave, as someone that's been covering this, and you have been collaborating with so many creators and you have been sharing your opinions and trying to stay nuanced,

how are you feeling or navigating a very sort of, it's a very intense topic right now. It's a really good question. This sort of like parallel world of not just the content creators, but the people consuming. I see a bigger issue with the anonymous consumers because there'll always be somebody, not, you know, 99% of the people,

fair. My audience is, by the way, just so justice-oriented and they're really good people. But there'll always be someone who goes, see, somebody lied. And whenever we get into generalities, like, it was always believe women, right? It was never believe all women. But a lot of people that wanted to politicize it said, oh, believe all women. What about this? And those types of people are the type that always have to find the excuse that negates the general rule. I believe generally that in most cases, people don't lie. And in most cases, the most dangerous person a woman knows is her partner or her father. I mean, those are a close relative. That's statistically how it works. And we have to address that. So with this case, I always say, you believe people and then you just look at the evidence.

And I think if we could just all like envision us being at an art gallery, stand 20 feet away from the Mona Lisa. You're at the Louvre. Just absorb the information and don't get too critical, don't go in people's DMs, don't fight with people online. Just observe it like you're driving through the Yellowstone National Park and don't touch the bison because everyone's allowed to change their opinion. And this is the biggest problem I have politically is people get stuck in their opinions. They don't want to be flip-floppers. But like you, I just follow the evidence. Blake could present some ring cam footage that they forgot they had. They finally logged into their iCloud account. And next thing you know, they got Justin slapping around the ass and we go, all right,

let's take a few moments to rethink things. But as of right now, as information has come in, people just aren't there. But we have seen it play out because people have in mass changed their opinion on who they believe. So I reject those that say, oh, this hurts the cause. I think by really focusing on getting it right, this helps the cause because it raises the batting average of like, okay, you know, it went kind of back and forth, but we figured it out. And we didn't smear people and make it terrible. I hate it when we call people names. I hate the snake lively

names and the, you know, I hate it when we called on any side. I just think it's stupid because it really just dehumanizes the conversation. So it's going to happen. You know, I was having a conversation with someone who I lined with on a lot of political issues, but they were, they thought, well, the right is covering this in a way that's dismantling things. And all I can say is I'm being as authentic and like down the middle as I can be. And I can't be thrown into other people's camps just because I'm also a content creator. You would never, you know, if Brian Williams is accused of fabricating a story on NBC, you don't then swear off watching CBS. Like, what are we talking about? Everyone's got their own their own batting average and their own rotten tomato score as we try to get it right. As fair as I try to

cover Johnny and Amber, I still got put on lists and I still got smeared and name called for certain things. And it's just, it's going to happen. But I think, I think when you play up to the level of intelligence of your audience, I say this too with stand-up comedy, you play up, you give the smartest take you can give and you think in the highest level, the audience will respect that and they'll rise to that level. If I want to be like Perez Hilton, late 1990s or whatever, when they were all just like making in front of Britney Spears. That's the game everybody played and we all reveled in that. We were all a part of it. And I think if we kind of try to be above that now, the audience will follow. Well, sad. You have brought up that this is one of the biggest sort of PR disasters in

Hollywood. I concur. I agree with that. But why do you feel this is so important to talk about? because you you are talking about this a lot you're talking about this every day i'm tuning in so clearly i'm there for it but why do you think it's so important that we discuss this because i've had some people i've tried to like reel in like my husband for now he's in he is actually in and and you helped by the way you helped we listened to you on a recent road trip and i've been talking to him for months but he first chalked it up to this is hollywood drama i'm like no no no no no but like why do you and it is but it isn't but why do you feel like this is like so worth your time to discuss well you know it's if you've ever watched like a sporting match you know where the guy gets called

safe but he was really out and it ruins the perfect game the next day the whole everyone's going to be talking about that oh what did Shakira wear at the halftime show I loved it I hated it it's just like there's this qualitative conversation that is not a yes or a no so you cover murder right If someone just kills someone in plain blood, like it's over. You know who did it. There's no like, well, like Karen Reed, this could have happened. There's no nuance.

So this has nuance because it isn't. You picked the wrong case for nuance. Karen Reed is nuanced. You know, well, that's what I know nothing about it. But in most cases, no, but my point is that in most cases, it's a he said, she said. And if there was a smoking gun evidence,

it wouldn't be at. So like when people say, oh, this is bad for, movement of believing people. These cases only come out when they, they're so rare. And in, like in this case, you've got Blake lively comes with about a billion dollars with, you know, the Mint Mobile money and Blake, by the way, grifting by having a liquor brand when she doesn't drink. That's another thing. I don't like griff. I don't like that actually bothers me. People that people and making the people that she interviews drink it and then says, well,

I don't drink and then promoting it during DB. I know. I can get into all the things. Yeah, so you got that. And then Justin Baldoni's side has a billion dollar, you know, CEO. And they're in the end and they're trying to like Blake lively is trying to make it a work rights issue. And, but really, she's the powerful one in the situation. She was the one who made 10 times as much money as everyone else on this. She made three million. They made 300,000. And the point is is that the reason why this is culturally relevant. And the first reason I covered it was over the astroturfing or the perceived astroturfing because I talk about that all the time. And for those that, why, like a clear definition of astroturfing, it's taking a grassroots movement, but it's really fake, right? AstroTurf is fake grassroots. And it's the idea that with the internet that you can just have a couple people can get together with a couple bot accounts. And next thing you know, curate this whole, this whole idea. We see it happen with, you know, big insurance companies and lobbyists. We just saw it happen with big soda. Big soda was astroturfing, you know, to get to get them included on food stamp applications or something by paying influencers or whatever. It's all over the place.

What we want, I think, you know, generally speaking, is that we want life to be fair. We want to know that if someone's voting for something, it's because that's what they believe in, not because they were bought and paid for. We want to know that if people don't like Blake lively, it's because they don't like Blake lively, not because there was a crisis management firm that came out to, you know, to wreck her. We just want things to be fair. So people see this. And initially, the conspiracy is, why is everyone unfollowing Justin?

Then it's, he's this monster, there's astor-turfing. And then literally 48 hours later, when he countersues for 400 million and at 250 to New York Times, really over half a billion in lawsuits, then we go, oh, he's the David versus her, Goliath. And then they want the justice for him. So it's very obvious in hindsight to see people just want justice. That's what it comes down to. And because these are relatively famous people and Taylor Swift and all the other aspects are involved, we all know who we're talking about like if i go on stage i went i had a show um a few nights ago and i'm on stage and i'm like who want you guys hear about this justin baldoni versus blake lively 90% of the audience knew about it because it's such a cultural talking but if i was like do you hear about my uncle tony and his crazy belief like they're not going to know the common denominator is the celebrity involved and then and then the actual conversation is finding out the justice through all of the all of the the dripping of evidence as it's come in

Well said. If like I said, we're going to start covering this. I'm going to a murder trial. Chad, Deba, Lori Vallow case go get caught up and we can have you on to talk about that. But we're heading there to Phoenix, Arizona. We're going to be covering that day in and day out. But on the weekends, we want to start covering this because I agree with you. It's important. And it's about publicists and critical thinking and justice and psychological motives. And as you say, this has never really happened. unimaginable crimes. If people are just jumping in and they want to understand

this sort of Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni case, where do you recommend they start? Is it with the New York Times article? Is with the lawsuits? Oh, my gosh. Is it a deep dive you've done? Yeah, he laughs. I'm a wordy, I'm a wordy guy.

Should they head to the Nick Vile? No, no, don't do that. I'll call you. I'll give you up my phone number. I'll call every single person. So it's, I mean, if you just search, whatever, I always like to find people where they are. If you're on TikTok or Instagram, just search Blake Live. I'm sure the algorithm will introduce you to the best briefest version of what went down.

But I think we did a good job of explaining it. I will say this, though. I don't want to pretend like I'm like we have some sort of moralistic barometer here. This is salacious stuff. This is not all like, what's the greater context for good? There is some of that. But there's a lot of people that see something that's apolitical. There's people across the spectrum.

I actually will relate it to Luigi Mangione in that I think I think Luigi Mangione was apolitical. I think audiences across the spectrum saw an injustice playing out, whether now obviously people might not pull the trigger themselves, but they saw the injustice play out. And then we saw like news reporters try to like not call it for what it was. And people got upset about that. You know, you had right-wing people and left-wing people. Audiences were up in arms going, no, what are you talking about? The world's so messed up right now.

So with this case, it's like, look, you've got you got moms and dads and siblings coming together talking about things, and it doesn't have to involve, you know, what was, you know, the most toxic election cycle of all time. So I think there is a relief there for people. Well said. I am glad you brought that up, right? This isn't all moral. This is salacious. This has been something for me.

I've been going through a hard time myself. our audience knows, and it has been like a distraction too. But one that I want to start talking about now. And it's like, look, these cases are great examples to run the experiment. I've been running this, you know, I say experiment, but I've been running this my whole, you know, for the last several years, which is give people grace, understand that everyone's trying the best with the information they have and try to call it out that way.

And I've, my, you know, there's this old idea, like if it bleeds, it leads. And sure, you know, you got to put a salacious thumbnail and title. you know, titled together. But I really believe that audiences would rather have a nuanced, long-form conversation about this versus a 20-second TikTok. Like, here's why Blake's the worst. There's, there's an audience with a thirst for like just, you know, for some of that nuance where sure, yeah, it looks right now like she's the bad person. But okay, what are we just going to wrap it up? No, we're going to keep talking about it and talking about, you know, I'd love, I mean, what, what annoys me is these things you become so tight-lipped and you know the PR gets involved and we don't hear anything

from Blake she'll probably never do a tell-all interview but I would love it if she just came forward and said you know like I completely misinterpreted all of this that is my fault here are the reasons why I am a friends with a billionaire pop star and I feel so inadequate that my career is kind of like stuck in this place that it you know just just give us some dang honesty yes no I I I do that too. As someone that has been in PR and on the opposite end of PR because I was a broadcaster receiving all the PR, you know, the press releases. And then I've been a communications director for a company. I'm very intrigued in PR and how people manage things. I haven't done everything right for my own company. So I've learned through trial and error. But I agree with you that like,

I feel like the best situation for Ryan and Blake in in the situation would be to say, you know what, let's drop the lawsuit. We're sorry. Let's move on. But I also think it's really telling if we're talking motives that they don't and that they won't because I think it says a lot about them that they're like, they're in it to win it. They know their power. They have endless money. They're like, we are going to fight this. We need to be right. And I think that's not a good look either. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I covered this today is that there's a publicist that worked for Justin Baldoni's side later got fired and when they were scorned shared a lot of private messages with Blake lively. A lot of those messages that's come out word. Stephanie. We're talking about Stephanie Jones.

Stephanie Jones, right. And these messages were out of context. They were missing emojis. It wasn't through the proper subpoena process, which means they might just be inadmissible. And there's a lot of issues with them. Blake lively can own up to all of her problems and say, I got cocky, I took it public. And she could actually target Stephanie Jones and say, this is the person. who lit the fire. I set the kindling up. I put all the firewood together. And this person with this text message, I thought was a smoking gun when it really wasn't. So she can kind of like skirt the blame while also apologizing and saying, you know, looking back on it, reviewing all of the footage I saw. I'm now aware that I was the problem. I'm going to go away and be a mom for a couple

years. And when I come back, I'm going to quietly try to do my job. And I think that's enough for Justin. disagree with this. They go, well, no, he needs to see this all the way to the court. Maybe, but these depositions aren't going to look pretty for him either. He's winning right now. So do you call it while you're winning, is the question. Yeah, that's a good question. I, yeah, how both sides continue to manage it. Manage it is a fascinating aspect for me. How this is going to end? Is it really going to go to a trial with the jury? By the way, I think it is. I know that everyone really unprodicted it wasn't, I think we're going to see a trial at this point. What do you think? You know, I've interviewed some lawyers I trust and they were like 99% no way this goes to trial.

And I asked them to give me a day and we all picked a day. And one guy said Christmas Eve, it'll, and then once we saw the discovery was like August 14th, I was like, oh, it's going to settle on August 13th. There's no way, you know, but yeah, I'm with you. Every single day this goes on. That's one more day of legal bills they're already paying, which means if they settle, they'll probably have to, you know, I'm sure Blake's side is going to have to, because when I talk about a settlement at this point, I mean, Blake has to admit she was wrong. I don't see Justin Baldoni settling for any reason. He, his career is on the line and his financial backer, who's also a member of his Baha'i faith church community, Steve Sarowitz, a billionaire said, I will spend as much money as

necessary. He's invested in this Wayfair company that Justin Boldone owns. So they've got all of these reasons. And by the way, it ends with us. Some people go, oh, it wasn't a good movie. Made a ton of money. Made a quarter billion dollars on like a $20 million budget. That's about as successful as you'll ever get. So they've got a lot at stake. I don't see them coming out of this with a settlement unless Blake admits she was wrong. And not one of those, you know, I mean, it would have to be a strongly negotiated. I was wrong. I see it now. Justin did nothing wrong. Other than that, I don't think he settles. Okay. Another thing that I like that you brought up, and I just want to say this, and you have some empathy for Blake

and you humanize her and make sure we don't dehumanize anyone. And I want to reiterate that too. Like, I've laid out where I am right now. I believe that Justin Baldoni has been railroaded, that he is a victim in this, that there was a takeover, an attempted takeover of this film.

I guess it worked, right? A takeover of his film. He was in the basement for the premiere. but when going back to when I was first being fed this algorithm of Blake videos and I didn't care. I didn't care about Blake. I don't, I don't, that's usually not like my jam is like I might be into murder, but like I'm not really into like the behind the scenes of Hollywood. So I didn't know why I was getting fed this algorithm like last year.

So when I started to look into it and I saw the Blake Liley videos and the what she was getting on the internet two things happened a i didn't i learned i didn't really like her that much because i was thinking to myself i don't like the actions she's taking here like i don't like that she's disregarding domestic violence i don't like as you point out that she's pitching an alcohol company when she doesn't drink i agree with that but but i also felt sorry for her i was like how much can one human being take like like this is a pile on like you know what I mean and so when it actually died down and it stopped I thought oh she's going to be able to move on now like that was a serious pile on like I'm not a

big fan of Blake Liley but that was like dude like you know then she of course then the New York Times article came out and she filed her lawsuit and I thought oh geez like now it's all back now it's all back and the pylon's back and this time she she did bring it on a bit herself But I agree, like she was postpartum. There's a lot going on. And I just want to say, I'm not trying to virtue signal here either because I am, I am participating in this salacious day-to-day activity here. And I am consuming the content, right?

But I also think it's so important to also realize that like these are real people. And this, how much can one human being take? And she has children that are being affected, you know, on and on. and on. Again, maybe she should make the choice to drop the lawsuit at this point. But I do also just want to say that I appreciate how you humanize everyone in this story. Well, thanks. But, you know, it's really interesting because audiences do have a hard time seeing a beautiful, successful, you know, celebrity in thinking that they're also, they have the same amount of dopamine, the same amount of core. They've got the same DNA as the rest of us, right? So they're going to have

days where they're stuck and they're not creatively filled and they're anxious and all of those things. And it doesn't mean they're not, it doesn't mean she wouldn't be wrong in that scenario. I do find when I do get pushback from this opinion, people go, are you mean to, look, I've had three kids. I never did that. And I always go like, look, it's just flying too close to the sun. Right. So it's so off putting that she would monetize her hair care line and in her liquor line when she doesn't drink and all these things. But then when you pull back, you go, well, she's got a team of people that picture things. Ryan Reynolds has Mint Mobile and liquor. He's doing these crazy things. She's trying to pull her own weight in this group of like very ambitious type A personalities.

Even when I analyze Blake Lively's humor, she comes off like a mean girl. She doesn't have the weapons to pull off being attractive and funny. She comes off like a bitch. And you're a comedian. So you can really assess. You can really assess the humor. I know she does. It's not a good look. It's like, I've done comedy for a long time. And I still come off unlikable sometimes. And I go, well, to this room full of strangers, I didn't really give them the most empathetic first four minutes. I came out there like an angry ex-boyfriend because I didn't open up with the content that goes, I'm raised by a single mom. Oh, we like this guy now. I mean, you see it with a comic who might be a large guy on stage. He makes fun of his body size

or someone's big nose. You do that to then humanize yourself to an audience. Otherwise, you're just the person on stage with the power. And, you know, Blake Lively makes fun of Leighton Meester's, you know, mom being in prison and just totally misses the very tight needle you have to thread to be funny. Ryan Reynolds, say what you want about him, is a great comedic actor because he plays sort of a dumb guy in a sort of hot guy's body. He plays all the time this snarky, like he did it on SNL the other day when they said, hey, how's it going? He said, why, what have you heard?

Like he plays this. He's got a very specific. little Canadian personality that he does that works with his type. So she doesn't hit it. But, you know, she might be funny in her brunch and when, when people know her. And that's because they would already know who she is. They would probably already know the anxious person who's worried, am I going to fit into my jeans post birth and, you know, whatever normal things people think. But she presents with this perfection so people don't, they don't get it. And it's like, all right, you know, you don't fault someone for that, you know, whatever. But that's one of the reasons why she hasn't been liked.

And it's, and it goes back. It's not, it's not new. I've worked on Gossip Girl and so did my wife before we even knew each other. We both have similar experiences where she looks like she's not happy. And maybe she's pensive, memorizing her lines or maybe there's just feeling like, and by the way, she should, you know, maybe work this out in therapy. But some people have this feeling like it's just never enough. And she got Gossip Girl when she was a young actor. And I don't think she really had to work that hard for it. And I know a lot of actors that are up at 4 a.m. waiting in line to audition for that play on Broadway. They're wrapped around the corner. And boy, they'd give anything to be able to be in that role. And maybe Blake, you know, took it for granted and just wants what's next. And I think, I think people can relate to that. And I think if she actually acknowledged that, if that's what it is, I'm projecting here.

I think audiences have a hard time reckoning with this, but I do think audiences forgive. I think they go, no, never, but I think if she really came out and really deflated the sales and really got honest and said, you know what, I'm going to Bali with my family, I'm going to go work on me. I'm going to go be a mom. And then in three years, she comes back with some really great art house movie that has nothing. And she takes us out of Blake lively and puts us into some character. I believe people are okay with that. I really do. And we love a comeback story.

But you know, you can't hit rock bottom until you stop digging, right? Yeah, no, I agree with you. People are intrigued by a story where people are being canceled, but we are also intrigued by a story of redemption. You know, it's crazy. I really want Firefest 2.0 to be successful. I don't know if you know anything about this, But the first Fire Fest was so bad, the guy had to go to jail.

And there's something in me that it's like, you know what? You only go to jail if you don't pull it off. Come on, Billy McFarlane. I want it to be sick. It won't. But I want it to do well because, yeah, I like to see the comeback. I like to see, you know, I didn't want Tom Brady to retire at 40. I wanted to play into his mid-50s because I want to see the old man who still has it, right?

I think we all. Well, that's why I'm feeling about Billy Bush right now, honestly. I'm cheering him on. I'm like, okay. Hot mics by Billy Bush. I'm here. I'm here for it. Have on, have anyone on you want, which he is. He's like having everyone from Candace Owen to TikTokers to like, he didn't respond to my DM. He only has the hot TikTokers on. Billy Bush. Billy Bush, have Dave Neal on. He's next. But I am sharing him because it's a story of redemption. Like he, you know, he was canceled. It's like, come back. I mean, see what you want about it. He, he, I'm honest with the Billy Bush scenario. Call me, call me, uh, call me whatever. you want, I would have done the same thing. I would have been quiet. I'm not going to, you know,

if I got Donald Trump in some van talking mad shit, I'm just, you know, zipped up, doing my job. I mean, if you're anything, Billy Bush should have filed an HR complaint. He's on the clock. You know what I mean? He's not, he's being exposed to this lunacy, you know, we're referring to Trump saying, you know, grab women by the pussy. And it's like Billy Bush was the one that got in trouble because Trump couldn't get in trouble. They had nothing to fire him. There's no one to fire him with. Trump, elected president. Billy Bush got fired. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, and I'm with you. That was like a wild overcorrection. And I mean, what, who knows? I mean, the guys, you know, he'll be fine, right? He's like Anderson Cooper, right? Billy Bush is part of the Bush family, that, you know, the oil turned presidency family. And then Anderson Cooper is like, you know,

oh, I'm the first to not inherit money from the Vanderbilt billionaire fortune. Cry me a river, Anderson. You're going to be okay. Right. Right. You're right. do just fine. All right, gems, many people had been asking me for my secret formula or the perfect way to make dream. And although there's not any perfect way, I think I found the almost perfect way, if I'm going to be honest. It starts with hot water, as you can see there. And then you add a scoop of dream. Okay, a scoop and just a little bit more, especially when I need that extra help falling asleep. It does the job every time I sleep so well and wake up feeling refreshed and ready to go in the mornings. And then I use the frother, the dream gave me on my first order. Every,

gets this on their first order. I use it more than just on dream. It is it is now a staple in the kitchen. I love this. And then what I'm going to do is top my drink with some steamed oat milk. This is a secret in my opinion. Just a perfect amount of creaminess, but nothing too extreme right before bed. Use a QR code or the link in the description of this episode for more information on dream. We love this drink. It has done so much for our family. Thank you, Dream. And I know I've kept you for a long time. Thanks for your time, Dave. I do want to talk to you about this other fascinating thing about this case,

which is this sort of mainstream media versus independent creators. And full disclosure, I've been on both sides now. I was a broadcaster for 10 years. I am now an independent journalist and creator. We cover true crime, here it hidden true crime. But recently, my husband and I were in the Columbia Journal. review and we talked about how we said we don't we support um journalism and the mainstream media we see ourselves as a supplement to it you know people want the deep dives and i can do something with our

channel that i wasn't able to do when i was in broadcast news when i was only a lot of two minutes to talk about something and now i can be given an entire hour to sit here and talk with dave neal about our little weird quirky beliefs about this, you know, Hollywood disaster going on. But there are hip pieces going on about creators and the money we're making and how we're politicizing this or you guys are. This is my first. I haven't been on yet.

So it's all you guys, not me yet. You know, it seems like some infighting, which I'm not really liking. And it seems like you're trying to steer the ship. and like say hey guys let's all come together but what are you what are what's your take on on this now like that you've been an independent creator and you've got the new york times in hollywood reporter and glamour and you've got the that it was a very uncomfortable tic talk by the journalist for in for glamour was her stephanie was that her name stephanie mcneal yeah so it's tough because whenever we're generalized into a into a side i always push back right this idea that all

content creators are the same. So Stephanie McNeil wrote an article for glamour, which essentially is a blog at this point. And people got very upset about it. And it's like, I get it. I reported on it too. But let's remember, those of us that are kind of on the top of the content creator game, we're making very good living. The business model, when you can go direct to consumer, is very good. I will also not be financially shamed for that. Business Insider is writing an article right now where they've sent me multiple emails trying to know how much money I make and this and that, which I told them, you can join my Patreon for $5 and find that out. I give it to the Patreon because I'm not, I don't partake in the financial shame aspect of it. I told the guy,

I'll tell you how much I make when you tell me how much you make because I, because it's not a, that's not a big deal. It doesn't change my opinions. What I like about content creators for the most part with YouTube and podcasts is the way the ad revenue works for me is I get most of my income from like third party ads that operate through Google, which owns YouTube. So I don't, I'm not beholden to going, boy, Mint Mobile's paying my bills. I minus. And by the way, Mint Mobile was a sponsor of mine. You know, you know, pay me whatever. Ryan Reynolds company. It didn't change my opinion at all. But, you know, that can exist. And with mainstream media, it's like I, my belief is we should be working towards,

healthcare, Medicare for all, but, you know, some percentage. I don't know if it's 50 or 80% is, you know, they get their ad revenue from big pharmaceuticals. I mean, there's literally like this episode of the CNN, blah, blah, this sponsored by Pfizer. I don't think that is a safe place to, you know, for independent thinking. It doesn't mean, I think everything's a conspiracy. I think there's just a lot of subtle bias that exists with mainstream media where they might not cover a story for certain reasons.

And with the internet, it's free. capitalism you cover whatever you want if no i always say this tomorrow if someone put a gun to my head and say get a million views i could crank out a couple crazy videos that might get a lot of views but they are not going to deliver because i need watch time i need viewer duration i need click through rate and if i don't deliver on any salacious title or thumbnail people aren't going to watch and if people don't watch if it doesn't reach the 40% threshold or 20% of people that are exposed to to a thumbnail actually click on it. If it doesn't reach that threshold, the video flops.

Or no one will watch the next day. And people go, oh, this take what this underdelivered. He's no longer trustworthy. So we don't have editors over our shoulder, but we have the audience that edits by making sure we're being honest. And again, that might sound lousy. You know, it's like people get it wrong. There's content creators that are in bad faith or they're overly salacious and they're playing

into people's fear base, you know, whatever. And that'll exist and people can find that and they can come and they can go. You know, there's shows that I watch that are so ridiculous, some of the culture war issues they have that I have to turn them off because I'm not getting the real enriching story. I'm not getting the meat and potatoes. I'm getting the dessert, the sugar, sugar. And that, you know, that can be addicting to people. So this idea that it's us versus them, it's like, look, Stephanie McNeil with glamour, you know, I'm probably making five times her salary. It's a dying medium. No one's buying print magazines anymore.

So she's doing what she has to do. But I'm also not going to pretend like I'm the sort of innocent little content creator. Like I'm the beast now. You know, like your content creators became, we have the ability to be the beast. We have the ability. We don't have a boss telling us what to say or when to say it. And we can speak.

You know, I can flip a switch and go live in two seconds. If I have a story we're sharing, I don't have to get things. things approved and what you know so i don't really think oh i just lost my oh you know i'm so sorry can i can i just switch a battery out real quick yeah that's perfect i didn't realize i was going to lose that's a great headshot i like the headshot there look at that that must be your your acting headshot was that your glamour girls no glamour gossip girls i don't even seen gossip girls sorry yeah it's an old one hold on one this never happens i'm so sorry this is so annoying no worries this is this is actually a great example of being a independent creator right

And I always tell people like if some of the things happened during our shows that, you know, on the news, we'd get, I'd get fired. Oh, yeah. Well, shoot. Hold on one second. I turn it back on, but now I have to redo this. I, no, this is so annoying. People are forgiving, though. I want to say that people are forgiving.

I do want to say that, like, there are certain things that I've said because, like, our shows are so long where I've made some serious mistakes. And I've had to come on and be like, I am so sorry. Let me correct myself. people are forgiving and it means a lot to me like people underestimate like people are forgiving where there was a time if I made some of those mistakes and I always try to correct myself and but like if I made those mistakes as a broadcaster I would have been fired so I just want people are forgiving yeah you know and it's like um it's it's it's a fabricated sort of worldwide wrestling thing content creators versus journalists in the end if if someone wants to

really write a hit piece about me. My audience is going to double down. They are going to support me in other ways. I'll make merchandise t-shirts out of it. We just live in a world where you can't pull that on people anymore and it'll only hurt their credibility. So that's why I don't fear it. I just try to be authentic and honest. And then I've got all the receipts to back it up. So this business inside, if they really want to go down that path where I'm the bad guy because I got a revenue bump covering the biggest story of Hollywood ever, then that's on them to make. By the way, they were behind a paywall. So they will be making a salacious story hoping we cover it so that, I mean,

this happened a couple of years. I was featured in Time Magazine. Sounds like a big deal, but it's like Time Magazine featured us so that we would talk about them. And the same thing happens every year. LA Times will cover the top 50 Los Angeles comedians. They want the promotion. it's the Wheaties box, right?

Where you buy the Wheaties box and put your face on it, by covering content creators, they're staying relevant by hitching their company to the moving time. So I don't lose any sleep over it, but, you know, I also don't think, you know, there's people, there's people on CNN. I trust, there's people on Fox. I trust.

I trust the individual. And if they let me down, I trust Crystal Ball from breaking points. I trust Glenn Greenwald. There's certain people where I go, this person's Ryan Grimm, they're really trying to get it right and they haven't let me down yet. And I follow them. And I think that's kind of the world we're moving to. I agree. And I actually think it is helping all of our, our, it's helped mine, even our critical thinking skills when we try to have to really now figure out who we want to follow. We used to

not. We used to be able to just trust an outlet. We would get our newspaper thrown in our driveway. We'd pick it up and we didn't even know who wrote it. You just trusted the outlet and you trusted what you're reading. And now we can't do that. We actually do have to decide who we trust and even then still use critical thinking with them. And then we have to sometimes disagree with those creators that we trust. So yeah, this is a world that is changing and it's a world where we have to really understand what we're consuming and decide who we trust and who we can respect and also do our own research at the same time. I need though, really quickly, you just gave us a little bit of tea with this sort of business insider thing. And I have been hearing little hints of

on your channel this like tell me what is going on you they called you give us a story so i get i get it here i want to hear it sure i get an email from business insider and look you know we're always looking for free press we're talking you know hoping hey maybe three people might watch the channel you know we're always cross promoting that's that's we cross pollinate right we're try to grow so when business insider reaches out i was like all right we'll we'll have a chat and obviously they're going to butter me up and then i but i also i'm not um you know i'm not um you know I'm not, this is in my first rodeo. So I record the conversation, 40 minutes.

I gave the guy 40 minutes. And it was a lot of time. And I was like, you know what? I was, in really good faith, I explained my whole business model and how things work. But business insider sounds professional, but they pretty much, their specialty is to cancel people. Their specialty is like a hit piece on Dave Portnoy from Barstool. They'll do the same thing that New York Times did. They'll give you like a three hour window to respond.

So I knew going in this was going to be. interesting. And a lot of the questions I got from this guy, God bless him, maybe he's having a hard time writing the article because he's still following up on it. It's been three weeks. And I'm like, they don't pay you enough to spend this much time to write an article. But I've spoken to other content creators that are also in the process or that gave their story. And he really wants to know how much money I make. It's really important to him. He was doing the math and crunching my numbers and this and that. When I was sued last year for harassment, I was covering a story. The lady was, is being investigated. Thanks and

part to my audience. We uncovered a medical fraud, but I was being threatened with a hundred million dollar lawsuit. And I received a pretty good audience from it because they really trusted me and thought I was getting a real bad short end of the stick because, you know, while my wife's pregnant and we're about to have our baby, I'm being threatened with insane amounts of threats from this lady and her lawyer, all of which we've proved that she's the one who was wrong and she dropped her case against me. But you know, she called the FBI on me, all these crazy things. So because of that, I developed this big audience and this guy at Business Insider,

he's basically saying, why should people believe you when you cover this case? Kind of, you know, in ways asking questions to make it look like it'll be an article about how this is over the head of content creators, you know, like with the heaviness of it. And I simply said, because I was threatened with a $100 million lawsuit, I stared it down. I looked in the belly of the beast and I doubled down and stuck to my story and I won. And I was willing to tell the truth, despite most of my colleagues backing away from the story for fear of litigation and things like that. And I think it really shut them up because I don't think people realize like we all, no, everyone's different. But like, you know, when the Johnny Depp story happened, people can Google this on YouTube.

I did this show. It's called like the Today Show or whatever. See, it's the Ireland version of the Today Show. It's like the morning show. A couple Irish folks, this rugby player, this retired rugby player. And they blasted me. they blasted me on this show on behalf of all of the toxic content creators, you know, the ones that were making fun of Amber Heard and all of the silly things going on.

Right. And I became the poster child for their anger towards the internet. That's like me getting mad at you for some of the angry comments I get. It's like, no, I refuse to be to be lumped in in this giant category of hundreds of thousands of people that are making content about this. So I recorded the Business Insider conversation. and so if it does get to the point where I am mischaracterized or made to look a certain way, we'll just show the math.

And people, I'm confident, will decide for themselves that this random guy, if he does, you know, and I've said this publicly to almost like tempt him. Like, are you really going to be coming after me right now? Because I have no shame. Right, right. And, you know, and I'm always encouraging good journalists to come on and start their channels. because if independent creators and independent journalists and are here and they are here to say, then we need good voices and we need more good voices.

You're absolutely right. We could go do something tomorrow for a million views. It doesn't mean we're going to have staying power either. Right. What we do, people continue to come when you're right. There's good content when people trust you, when you bring healthy conversation. and that's not easy. And I see you hustling.

Even my husband said he's like, he's got a 10-month-old and he's doing this twice a day. I said, yeah, and he's like, he's hustling. I'm like, you are. Yeah, for years now. It's very hard to create your own future and your own business and support your family. Thank you so much. Well, you know, yeah. And when I was attacked last year with this lawsuit, I had to really grapple with,

am I going to, you know, we just bought our first home, but a baby on the way. Am I going to let this go? And I doubled down and I stuck to my guns and stuck to my recipe of like, let's try to deliver this as best we can. We'll share our opinion, but it's opinion, but it's also journalism. It's a little bit of both. And you can do that, by the way. Like, you can, you can, you can dabble between here's what, here's what's going on.

Here's what I think about it. You know, there's this legal correspondent for MSNBC. And he has since left to do his own YouTube channel. He's got almost a million followers. And it's like, there he was trying to jam everything into a three-minute segment. And now he can talk for 30 minutes. And I think what. it's proven is, you know, glamour, glamour magazine, business insider, even New York Times,

they cannot compete with the most organic way of conversation, which is humans talking to each other. There is no competing with long form content. It'll be here, you know, podcasting in long form YouTube. It sounds like it's, you know, evolved so much, but this is sitting around the fire stuff. And to take it back to my podcast, it's, I'm sitting next to you at the bus stop. let me tell you about the wombat girl from you know Australia and then I'm going to tell you about the the girl who botched the national anthem you know I'm just going to just here's what we here's what I found today and in people you know actually surprising to me have really um really enjoyed it because it's like you know it's kind of some serious it's like talking to a friend sometimes it's serious

sometimes it's funny and it's whatever it's whatever comes to me yeah it's what it's what Dave finds interesting and if we find what you find interesting, we're here for it. So, and clearly it's worked. I, I, thank you, Dave, for being here. I, really, I've, I've, I've enjoyed your podcast. I've enjoyed how hard you're working. I've enjoyed your honesty. I've enjoyed, uh, you know, how you've humanized people in this. And it's just, you're doing a great job. And so, so thank you. Yeah. And we, we do want to have you back. I hope that we can collaborate again once we get the psychologist on board with us here. I'll have so many great questions for them.

Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff to work with. Yeah. Do you have any other questions? Sorry, I'm looking at my producer. You're good? You're good? Do you want to say anything else? Let me ask my producer.

Are you good? Yeah, no, we're good. No, I appreciate it. Rub it in. You got a producer. I'm all alone over here. I got producers in my head. I got ADHD as my producer.

We have both of our producers too, yes. You know, I get in today's world, just a bandwidth of content that comes across my thing. It's like if I don't catch an email, it's gone. And I'm so glad that we were able to, I'm so glad that yours stuck out to me because it's, I'd love to come back. And, you know, I'm excited to sort of hear your takes as they come up. And if there's any crime stories you think I should talk about on the rush hour, let me know. because I know there's going to be a few coming up. There's a few different trials.

They might not be murder, but there's that one Netflix documentary about the cult. There's some L.A. dance cult and a few things. So I am covering legal stuff, just not from the perspective of anybody who has any sort of legal expertise. We do cults.

We do cults. No, this is what you're going to want to cover. I will be in Phoenix, Arizona. Speaking of cults, Colt mom, Lori Valo, go watch sins of our mother. If you haven't, the Netflix. Netflix? Since of our mother.

My husband's in that, Netflix, Doc, sins of our mother. So, you know, full disclosure there. I'm also pitching something we're in. Go watch that to get caught up. Lori Valo is called Doomsday Mommy. And she is about to represent herself. She's been diagnosed with delusional disorder. and she was also a beauty queen

and she's about to represent herself in a trial in Arizona. I'll be there every day. Representing herself. Wow. It's going to be interesting. So we've been covering this case for about five years. It's why we started our podcast and YouTube channel is just we strictly covered this.

Are you covering it from the court or like how does that work? I will be covering it so I do lunch lives every day. I go out on my cell phone and I just talk for like 20 minutes about what's going on. Then I go home or by home I mean our Airbnb and we do total recap of every day of trial. Yeah, I went to Scottsdale, Arizona to cover this other trial where I was involved in and I rented a van to cover it from the location. It was like 115 degrees that day.

And the van, the air conditioning could not keep up. And it was a sweaty mess. But I always told people with this, I said, if this goes to trial, I will be in New York to cover it. I'm going to do the same thing. I'll get like an Airbnb. Stay downtown. I'll probably go live during the day.

day and then every afternoon like run down to the courthouse and try to see what's going on there. But yeah, I mean, this is this is 2025. They love they love to follow this stuff. Yeah. Well, keep in touch. Let's keep in touch. And yeah, once we're cut up, I think that it's going to be, I'll tell everyone here too. Like, it's going to be Friday.

I think is where we're going to release Friday or Saturday. We might record Saturday. We might. Yeah, see that the producer. She keeps a handle on things. luckily. So we're going to record it Friday, release it Saturday. It's going to be our hot take. So thank you, though, for helping us get started and jumpstart this and convincing my husband that this is a worthy, worthy thing to discuss. Of course. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Dave.

And we will see you later.