Hidden True Crime - PSYCHOLOGIST REACTS: Lori Cries From Wheelchair in Court - Sick or Strategic? | Vallow Daybell

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Lori Vallow Daybell rolled into court — literally — in a wheelchair, stunning onlookers and throwing yet another wrench into her already chaotic trial. Is it a real medical emergency… or another calculated delay? In this episode, Dr. John and Lauren dive into the bizarre courtroom moment that's making headlines. What happened? Why now? And what does it mean for a case already steeped in death, deception, and doomsday beliefs? Brandon Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist? About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is my husband, Dr. John Matthias, a clinical and forensic psychologist, also known as a criminal psychologist. What I just witnessed inside the courtroom, only 14 people were in there. I was one of them. While we watched Lori Vallow have a bit of a meltdown from a wheelchair playing the victim, attempting to delay her trial. And so we have John here, who has been watching an absurd. reviewing Lori now for nearly six years. So we're going to break this down together.

Thank you for everyone that's here. So we walk in not a lot of room, like I said, because they're making room, keeping room for the potential jurors to come in for Lori to question them. We know that Lori was probably sick on Friday. One by one, we walk in. And we realize that we've come in a little bit behind that like maybe one minute of stuff has happened before we arrived in there.

We have the full video. You can go watch the full video on our channel. But we'll also have it linked in the description of this episode. But then this is the first thing that we hear the judge state once we're in the courtroom. Take a listen to this. And I'll tell you what I was thinking since this is the first thing I heard. I'm your trial judge. My instructions are to complete your second trial.

Um, so even if for some reason your sickness worsened and we weren't able to complete this trial and had to declare a mistrials in this trial, even if this case got delayed into June or July or August to be reset, I'd still be your trial judge. I'll be honest. Last week, a lot of people were suggesting that Lori was being strategic and I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I thought, no, she's probably just. sick. If she's representing herself, she can't question jurors, potential jurors, and she'll be back. The moment I heard the judge say that, before I'd heard anything else, that was the first thing we heard inside that courtroom. And the moment I heard him say that, I thought she is being strategic. See, she is being strategic. Everyone was right. Like, that was my initial thought. And I'm like, she is attempting to delay her trial. But sorry, you guys are here for John, not me.

What did you think when I sent you that clip and you watched this whole thing? When you say that with Lori, you never know what you're going to get. It reminds me a little bit of Forrest Gump. I think Lori is like the Forrest Gump of murder defendants. Like you just, every day is a different experience. You never know what you're going to get. You never know what version of Lori you're going to get. you know it's going to be interesting.

So like, I mean, so I think what the judge said is interesting at a lot of levels, but I think most importantly, it shows that the judge knows what's going on here. If there's a question about, you know, between you and I or who are listeners about whether she's being strategic or manipulative or, right, like the judge is answering that question. The judge is telling you that he doesn't believe her and she's trying to manipulate him. Like she's trying to pull a fast one, and the judge is saying, look, you put in these motions to get rid of me. You've tried everything to get rid of me. Now you're like playing sick, right?

Now you're like, and also like he's assessing her nonverbal. Like she doesn't sound super sick. And you could tell that he doesn't believe her because he's like, well, what are your symptoms? It's like when you have a kid, you and I know this. Like it's when you have a kid who doesn't want to go to school. And you're like, what are your symptoms, right? He's, well, I got a headache. Okay.

But you don't have a fever, right? So the judge is doing a version of that. Like, it's like a kid. He's dealing with a kid. Like, what are your symptoms? Oh, I've got a headache. She says, I've got nausea, chills, a fever, and I can't eat. So she's basically describing the symptoms of, let's say, stomach flu or food poisoning, maybe.

I don't know. Slash COVID, though, because then she's like, I'm eating citrus. I'm eating all the citrus. I'm like, you don't eat citrus if you have a stomach bug. Wouldn't that, like, don't add more acid to your stomach. Yeah. You either have COVID or a stomach flu. That was a moment for me.

I'm like, wait, you're what? You're eating citrus? That's true. She could be playing the COVID card because that would get her a lot of mileage. That would definitely, the COVID card might get her excused for, you know, months. But she had a mask in her hands. And you couldn't see her. So let me tell you. She was holding a mask in her hand, not putting it on. Never once said, I'm worried about getting potential jurors sick. She was just like, I'm so sick.

I can't do this. Woe is me. You know, not worried about the potential jurors time at all. In fact, there was one moment where she really was twisty and the judge was caring about the potential jurors. She's like, can we look? And we'll hear about this a little bit more later on. But he said, can't we just question. some jurors with you just introducing yourself, just that first basic part to maybe get rid of half of them so they can move on with their lives. And her response was, Judge, no, I just can't disappoint people.

I can't. I have to, I have to, I'll feel so bad if I can't show up for them Wednesday. I don't know. It was very weird. But you're right. The judge from that moment, that statement is telling us he doesn't believe her.

And he thinks that she has a motive, which she does have a motive. She has a motive. And that is that she doesn't want Judge Bresby. You know she has a motive because she's filed multiple motions. And she's tried to get rid of him repeatedly. So clearly she has a motive. She's played that card and it's failed. And now here she is super sick.

Right? And the judge doesn't believe. I mean, the judge calls her out basically as much as he can. Yeah. Judge basically says, well, you know, you can delay it. You can play sick. you can like you know I mean I don't know

like in fairness maybe she is sick right I don't know you were there did you have the sense that she was sick guys I really do feel like I give people the benefit of the doubt I did on Friday I'll be honest even though people were suggesting she was strategic I

didn't think so I really didn't but the moment the judge said that and then seeing her antics in the courtroom I absolutely think she'd being manipulative. Could she be sick? Sure, but to not be able to move from her wheelchair to her chair, just to like for the basics of jury selection. For her not to say, okay, let's try in two days, maybe I'll be feeling better and her adamant attitude that that wasn't okay. She was trying to get her trial delayed for her to keep saying, I deserve to represent myself.

I cannot move forward. Trying not to move forward at all this week. If I was severely sin, and I wanted to move forward. I would say, you know what, you're right, maybe I'll be better Wednesday. Maybe I'll be better. What should I do? How can I get testing done? How can we move forward? She was just that child that did not want to go to school, sitting in a wheelchair,

leaning like this, shaking like she was going to, like her, it was so over the top, shaking with her mask, you know, looking down, to cry, you know, like the crocodile tears again. And she didn't cry when her husband died. The wheelchair, by the way, was a nice touch. Like, that's, if you're going to play sick, I guess you might as well bring out a wheelchair. Like, you might as well, like, pull out all the stops. That's like a hell of a prop if you're going to be sick, right? Like.

Well, and she wouldn't get out of it. That's the thing, too. He said, so. Right. She wouldn't get out of it. She would not get out of it because then it became. Then the judge thought, look, let's bring the potential jurors in. Let's, so I want everyone to stay here.

I want both the defense. and the, you know, I want both the defense and the prosecution to be here when the potential jurors come in. So could we please put Lori in a seat for just a minute? And by the way, guys, these seats in the Maricopa County courthouse are cozy. Like it is, they're the, the softest chairs I've ever sat on in a courtroom. It is awesome. It's like lazy boys for everyone. And her chair looks cushioned to me. So could you just move from the wheelchair so we don't have, It was funny, so we don't have MCSO on the back of a giant wheelchair. So we can all be here.

And she was like, I just can't. I'm sick. I'm like, so you'd rather go back to your cell within your cement block than this cush chair here for just a little bit longer? So because she refused to get in her wheelchair, they had, everybody had to leave. Like the state, they couldn't stay there. And so everybody had to leave. And the judge had to greet the potential jurors alone, which he started by saying,

I am embarrassed to tell you this. And this has never happened in all of my career. That's actually how the judge started with. We can't see that part. You don't see that part. They cut out the part where the, yeah, when voir dire is happening, there's no cameras allowed. It's just completely private. So once the potential jurors came in, he said, I am embarrassed to tell you this.

In fact, here, what did I have the, let me see if I wrote down the exact. Let's see here. Yeah, jurors come in. He's embarrassed. ever has this happened in my entire career. We will not be able to resume today until Wednesday. Lori, you don't want Wednesday. And then he said that, look, he's so embarrassed that maybe he can get them all donuts at one point.

And they all chuckled. Well, some of them chuckled. Some of them were pretty mad. You know, and then Jura 4 got to take off the camp. Yeah. No, she, there's, there's a couple of moments where he wants her to move from the wheelchair. And she says the same thing. She says, I need to go lay down.

Like she basically says, I can't, I can't maneuver to the chair because I am so sick I need to lay down. Is there a reason I couldn't proceed with some of the oral boardier this morning? Because other than introducing herself, she wouldn't be expected to do anything this morning. And that way we can at least get rid of some of the jurors that, for whatever reason, would need to be excused. Judge, my concern is she's in a wheelchair now? Well, I would probably ask to have her sit in a regular seat and not be in a wheelchair that says MCSO across the back of it.

I am just not capable of going or even sitting here. I need to be laying down. I need to be getting better so that I can go forward and actually represent myself. I hope that I feel better this week and we can go forward. I can't give you any promises. I can't control any of this. if you play a little bit after that, you'll hear, so this is one of those rare moments where I don't know if you can pick it up on the audio,

but the judge is so exasperated, you can hear his nonverbals. You can't see him. I guess you could see him so you can tell us what he looked like. Oh, he was so over her. He was so over here. He was so irritated. You felt him losing control of his courtroom. Like he had no way out of this.

Like, you can't assume she's not sick and she has the right to represent herself. It's really fascinating because you can, even with just audio, you can pick up on how frustrated he is. Like, you'll hear the size, a bunch of sighs. And then there's like a long silence. I mean, it's, I couldn't see the judge. You know, we didn't have the picture of the judge, but I was listening and I'm like, wow. I can see the judge. This judge, as much as he gray rocks, but he's very, very dry, too.

Like, he's just sort of, he was so put out today. Put out is just, yeah, the size were real. And he's just, he's pausing. He's not, like, he's just done. He doesn't want to, he doesn't want to say something out of anger, you know. So, I mean, but he, there's a long silence there. Like, I don't know. It felt like, it felt like minutes.

It was probably less than that, but. It was very intense inside the courtroom. He was very, he was, yeah, audibly disappointed, put out is the best way, I think, to explain it. Just are you kidding me? Exhausted. Just he, as you point out, he didn't believe her. He pointed out her motive. And let me explain, too, why her motive is so real, too.

During the pretrial hearings, when they were sitting the, date for this trial. He was very specific. The judge was very specific that like if they didn't move forward by a certain date, then he might not be able to be the trial judge. This was before she attempted to recuse him multiple times. Like so he had said, I think that she took that and ran with it.

So that happened in the pre-trial. As they were setting this trial date, one of the questions was if we wait too long, I won't be able to be your trial judge. Again, this was months and months ago. So, like, I think she's hung on to that. Now, because she's tried to recuse him so many times, the court's going to make sure he's her trial judge now.

Right. Yeah. She's going to, she's working against the very outcome she's trying to achieve, right? The goal she's trying to achieve. The other thing is that little statement about need to be laying down and I can't control any of that. You know, we've seen this so much with Lori, but that's a reminder of, you know,

we talk about, I talk about some of the psychological elements that we see with Lori. And one of those is this victim mentality. Right. And you see it there, right? It's prominent there when she says, I can't control any of this, right? She's crying.

These elements that we see with Lori just keep cropping up over and over again. Sometimes she's really defiant and aggressive and angry, right? That's when she's kind of more in this antisocial or this more narcissistic mode. But here, she's more in this victim mode or this victim mentality. And you see the deceitfulness, right? You see the manipulation, the manipulativeness. You see there's also, let's think about this. There's this tremendous lack of empathy because you're putting out, you're putting out, you're wasting all of the jurors time, you're wasting the court's time, right? She doesn't care what the jurors think. She doesn't care what the judge thinks. Like, she's expending all these resources for the jury,

for the judge, for the prosecutor, for like, for everyone, for her team. Like, there's no, there's no empathy. There's no consideration. of anyone else in that courtroom at all. For Brandon Boudreau and his wife, Jenny, who were sitting. Right. They were sitting in the courtroom. They were sitting there. They waited six years for justice, sitting there.

But this is the part that does bother me. She twists it. She's so manipulative. Can I just play this and ask your thoughts, John? Because this is exactly what I get. She's not showing any empathy, yet she pretends that she's so giving. It's so manipulative. Listen to this.

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where i was staying here trying not to throw up on tv in front of the jurors which maybe we could all of us leave and they could come in just speak with you. That's fine. I've had that happen before where none of the parties are here and the court just advises that we're unable to. Okay. I don't know about you scheduling this on for Wednesday. It puts a lot of pressure on me to be better and ready for Wednesday and if I'm not. I don't like to disappoint people. I don't like putting people out of their way all the jurors

and all these things and all the pressures on me. That's not going to help me get any better anytime soon. So did you hear how she twisted that? She is putting everybody out in that room and then they're just saying if you could just get into the chair at this moment. And she's saying, I don't like to disappoint people. I don't like to put people out

as Brandon Boudreau is sitting right behind her. Well, again, it's this victim mentality. She constantly resorts to kind of that stance of being the victim.

Um, you know, yeah, right. She doesn't, she says that, but then she doesn't mean it. Like, clearly, I don't, and again, I don't, maybe she is so sick that she can't switch from her. She can't maneuver from her wheelchair into a wheelchair. But I mean, I don't, she doesn't sound that way. She doesn't sound that way. And clearly the judge isn't buying it. the judge

the judge sees her he's listening to her he's assessing her you're in there you're looking at the nonverbals like this doesn't seem someone who's like on their deathbed right like he doesn't he's not buying any of it like he's no sure he's frustrated and he wants to get this thing over with but like ultimately he thinks that this is clearly a manipulation yeah and that another thing he said again at this moment he's not even saying you have to move forward with it all today he's realizing she can't question the jurors he's saying could you just get into your chair to bring the potential jurors in and she's so dramatic too oh and then i'll just throw up all over the tv in front of everyone you know that's just so that again that's the child making sick

the dog ate my homework like really this This is where this is going to go. Like you've got a barf bag that you're holding. You can't throw up in the bark bag. Like, I am going to throw up on the TV in front of everyone. Maybe she's got it wrong. Maybe that would give her some points with the jury. Maybe she should move forward, right, if she's sick and, you know, play the victim card.

I don't know. But, I mean, she clearly resorts to this victim role a lot. It's one of her favorite posture. Yeah. And again, I want to point out she has motive now. I think the reason why I didn't think it was strategic is because I simply didn't understand her motive. But the motive became very clear the moment we walked into the courtroom and Judge Breskes stated, I am your trial judge, whether we move forward or not. And then she just went into just, you know, dramatic. refusal to even get into a cushion seat. And it's all because she doesn't like to put people out or disappoint people, she said. Obviously a victim. Yeah, the judge was not happy.

In fact, we have another Judge Boreski Zinger. We have a few of them. We thought, are you done? Lori was pretty good. But should we listen to Judge Borek's latest zinger? I'll tell you what's going on in the courtroom after he said that. Well, what is your suggestion? I don't know, but I'm saying if I were, so tomorrow, if I'm not better and I let my team know,

are you going to drag me in here like you did today with the team that came to get me? Do you know they felt so sorry for me to have to get dragged out of bed to bring me here? Yeah, the answer is yes. I probably will order that you be here Wednesday. take tomorrow off because I need to confirm how you're feeling you because you represent yourself no one else can waive your own appearance you're welcome to come over to the jail come to myself and see how I'm doing in there all right I'll take a pass on that this judge isn't playing

He's done. He's all right. I'll take a pass on that. He's like, he was so dry though. It was so dry. He's like, oh my gosh. Okay, I'll take a pass on that thing. It sounds like he's being kind of,

there's definitely some anger in there though, too. Like, just leave me alone, right? I'm taking a pass on that. Let's get this thing done. Right? He's just, he's so over it. I was in the back. in my favorite aisle spot. And when he said that, honestly,

there's only 14 people in there. I'm trying to be very respectful. I always try to be very respectful court attendee. And when he said that, I started to giggle and I had to bend over and put my hand in my lap just to like, I could have been in there, to have been in there.

Journalistic, journalistic neutrality and ethics, right? I think we have a new Matthiasinger. I think I'm going to use this for a lot of things now. All right. I'll take a pass on that. That's going to be our new. Yeah.

Yeah, that's somebody who's really frustrated. You know, the other part of that, going back to what she says before, I think, is equally interesting. you know a couple of things just paying attention to her language she says tomorrow if i'm i'm going to paraphrase a little here but tomorrow if i'm not better are you going to drag me in here today she said drag like it sounds like like it sounds like the jail's gone medieval on her like they're like they're grabbing her hair and dragging her in to court like she's used to using these dramatic like drag right i mean obviously nobody dragged her in but that's the language

she's using and then she says so she says that and then she says the team the team that that dragged her in quote felt so sorry for me and then she uses dragged again she says they felt so sorry for me that they had to drag me out of bed to be here so apparently there were two dragings there was the dragging her into court and the dragging her out of bed and the dragging her out of bed. So she got dragged. She got dragged twice. It's a two-dragger. It's a two-dragger. She just gets dragged everywhere, but she's inviting Judge Bressy, but come on in. Come to hang out. If you don't want to see me dragged out of bed, then you got to come down and, you know, pay me a visit. Let's do breakfast. Let's do breakfast in jail, right? So.

Well, she's great. You can come down. He's like, yeah, I'll love to be fast. I know. She's in There's the, but the team, so again, getting back to this victim mentality, the team felt so sorry. She says, the team felt so sorry for me, right? Why aren't you feeling sorry? She's appealing to the judge. She's apparently appealing to his emotions or his empathy about, you know, why aren't you? She's expecting the same response. Like, why aren't you feeling sorry for me?

I think she really thought she was going to bring her dog and pony show. she was going to bring her little sick show into court, and the judge is going to be like, oh, my gosh, I feel so bad for you, even though you've tried to dismiss me eight times or whatever, like, even though you've, even though you've belittled me and, you know, disparaged me and, like, manipulated me endlessly

for the last several months, like, I'm going to sit here and feel sorry for you. That's what she thinks. That's what she thinks. I'll take a pass on that. I'll take a pass on that. I'm not going to feel sorry for you. We're good.

He's not taking a pass on that. I wish he had said, I'll take, that's a hard pass. It's a hard no. That's a hard no. That's a full stop. Hard no pass. I am not going to show up for breakfast at your jail cell to assess your health. That's a no in all caps.

He said that too when looking at potential jerseys. He's like, this one's yelling at me in all caps. Let's excuse that one. Right. Yeah, let's take a pass on that one. Yeah. Oh, geez. A question here from someone to you.

How would you handle her if she stay sick? I'm kind of curious how you would have handled her today, too. Or maybe you don't know. We didn't ask you to analyze that. Well, I think the judge has a dilemma. He has to move this trial forward. He doesn't believe her. He thinks she's faking it, right?

She's malingering. So, I mean, ultimately, I think what he, I don't know how far he can go with this, but I think he should have ordered some, or maybe he doesn't want to know. Maybe if she has COVID, maybe he doesn't want to know that. But at a minimum, I think they should do some basic measurements of like fever, right temperature, just assess her health. see, try to figure out if she's malingering. And it gives the judge more ammunition if she's not running a fever.

If she seems to be fine, right? Like, you know, then I think it gives him a little more leverage in terms of forcing her or ordering her to comply and to show up Wednesday. Otherwise, I don't think he's going to get a lot of movement. I think Wednesday, my guess is you're going to see the same. you might see the same presentation. Yeah, I think we might see that Wednesday. I mean, if she's on a quest to do this until she gets a trial delay,

we'll see this again on Wednesday. So, you know, the problem the judge has here is if you're dealing with a child, let's say this is, let's use our analogy of like trying to get, your child doesn't want to go to school and they're clearly malingular faking it. There's no fever, right? Like, what he, the problem the judge has, he's going to have a clash of wills, right? Like the more he tries to get her to comply, the more she's going to resist. The sicker she's going to get, the worst the headache's going to get, right?

Like it's, if you're dealing with a child, you know, at some point, you just have to say, these are the rules and this is what you're going to do. And I guess he's, I guess he kind of did that today, but at some point he's going to have to be, I guess he's going to have to lay down the law and be a little stricter or sterner with her because he's he's got to get this thing moving. I mean, how can you be though? Because she could always appeal and say she was sick and, you know, he wasn't fair. I mean, I think her, I think his saying to her, I'm going to be your trial judge,

whether you like it or not, whether it's now or later, was his way of saying that to her. Right. But yeah, what do you do if this continues on and on on? What if she does this next year? What does she does this in six months? What if she does this in three months? I mean, how long do you let this go? Well, that's where you need to.

You need to enlist the help of some medical personnel to assess her or to evaluate her. You know, tomorrow maybe. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure what they can do. I'm not sure how far the judge can go with that. But, I mean, even so, even if. if you do that and there, there's apparently nothing wrong, she can still argue that she's sick. Arguably, there can be, there's always going to be something about, something subjective about

illness and pain, right? And so she can, she can play this card as much and as long as she wants, I assume. So yeah, it'll be, it'll be interesting. I think you're definitely going to get a major clash of kind of wills and personalities here. So, So stay tuned, you know, buckle your seatbelt because this is going to get interesting. Is this the equivalent of feigning incompetency? Because I've always thought personally that she was malingering with that whole being incompetent in Idaho for months. Is this the same deal? Is this the same old song and dance?

Yeah, it's a version of it. Yeah, it's definitely, yes, that's a really good observation. I think you could say this is a version of competency. competency would be at a higher level than this. But she can't play the competency card at this point. Right. Because she's representing herself. Correct.

Like she's already, in fact, she's had to do to represent herself, she's had to rule that out. She's had to argue that she kind of argued that, that she never really was incompetent. That was just mistakes made by evaluators, right? in forensic people like myself that got it all wrong. She was never really incompetent. So she can't play that card. But yes, I think this is this is a version of that just at a less, you know, a lower level. And it's, it's, it's an interesting dilemma because, again, like there's, there's always

going to be an element of subjectivity to illness. Yeah. Right. So. Right. So I don't know how far she's going. Like how she can go a long way with this, I think? I don't know.

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3.3% base API as of January 30th, 2026, is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member, Finns. SIPC, not a bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees, and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. I think she can too.

She could go a really long way with this. And, you know, she refuses to waive her right to a speedy trial. But somehow, she is capable every time to prolong a trial for months. In Idaho, it was incompetency, which she now claims Arizona. She never was incompetent. And now she has COVID flu bug that needs citrus. I'm just reading the comment that she's going to come in on a stretcher. I think, yeah, well, I don't look, I can't, I'm not, I think taking bets would be interesting, but I can't condone that.

So, but, but I mean, yeah, I think everything from a wheelchair to a stretcher. to like, is she going to come in in an iron lung? Because she can't breathe? Like, how bad is this thing going to get? Right? Like, I don't know. How long is she going to be physically ill for? I know.

She's going to come in and, you know, is she going to come in and like on a respirator? I don't know. I guess. She could. I know. I know. It's crazy. She just doesn't want to put people out, though.

Heaven forbid, but she just needs to lay down. Right. Yeah. And it's also, the other thing that's going on here is, and again, this is sort of like the child situation, but it is a way for her to assert control over the proceedings, right? She's now, she's now in control of when this trial's going to start. She's delayed it, right? she's literally she's literally usurp control of this courtroom from the judge. And I think that's one of the reasons he's so frustrated because, and you have to say, wow,

that's an incredible sleight of hand. Like, wow, I can't believe she did that. You know, I mean, the judge, and I think that, by the way, is why the judge wanted to move forward today. He's like, just, you're going to do this, right? And she's like, no, I'm not. I can't get out of my wheelchair, right? Like, it's probably not a good look to have, you know,

like three or four bailiffs move her from her wheelchair. Don't touch the rack belt. Right. Then she legitimately might have a lawsuit against the state, right? So, but then she'll really play the victim card. But, yeah, what, I mean, just when you thought, this couldn't get any crazier. You just, you have a situation now that you,

I think you, you potentially have an impasse here that I don't see having any resolution whatsoever. Yeah, yeah. You're absolutely right, though. She's in control. She lost control. The judge took back control. She tried to recuse the judge over and over again.

She is trying to file motions over and over. He rejects, rejects, denies, rejects, or overrules, I should say, makes rulings, overrules. And she's angry and this is a way she is asserting control. You're right. She is taking the control back. That alone, I think, is motive enough for her. So as the judge says to her, I'm your trial judge, whether you like it or not, she still has motive. And that's, you know, taking control back into her hand.

Yeah. Right. And I mean, yeah, all the things that we've seen in Lori, they're just, they're playing out again and again in this, with her representing herself by pulling this little stunt today, right? Like it's her need for control, her deceitfulness or manipulativeness, like all of it. Yeah. Yeah. I know you have to leave soon, but it was. It was wild. I'll tell you that. And to put this many, you know, men and women, you know, on hold, their lives on hold, except for Juror 4 who got to go camping. Yeah, that was one of my favorite moments, by the way. So has, tell me a little bit about Juror 4.

Has Jure 4 been picked already? Is Jir4 impaneled? Is that because that came, that kind of came, I have no context for that. What it? Yeah. Do you have that quote? It's like. Yeah, we'll play it here.

And I know we have at least one juror that we will have to excuse who was going camping. Yeah. Yeah. Juror number four, I think. Yeah. Um. I mean, I don't.

Okay. Let me explain. I don't really have the context. But when I heard that, I thought what, like what, it sounds like this courtroom is, like a club med like you know you like you on Thursday you're going to have the jury duty experience and then on Friday you're going to go and you're going to get to go camping in Sedona and then on Saturday if you thought that was good on Saturday you're going to get the guided tour of the Grand Canyon and then on Monday you're going to come back for jury duty and have the jury duty

experience I'm like what what what's going on in this courtroom okay let me let me let me let be explained. So we don't even have a jury seated. So we were going to do that on Friday. They all come in and Lori's saying she's sick. And everyone's like, oh, be careful and nobody else gets sick. And so they all have to go home and the judge apologizes and says, you can all come back Monday. But he does say, is there anybody here who can't make it back? And all these hands raised, which also the judge was really put out by he's like, it never ceases to amaze me after they left. how you can put all these questions about if they have time for this and they still don't put that they can't make it Monday.

So a lot of people could have make it Monday. But there was one guy who said, I can make it Monday, but I have a problem with Friday. And they said, well, we don't think we're going to have court on Friday. So you're good.

And now they're saying, we are going to have court on Friday. Let's let the guy go camping because we don't know if he's going to be a juror or not. He's been here for three days. He's answered the questions. So let's let that one do. go, we've got 51 potential jurors left. So he had a...

That's the guy who had to go camp, who's going to go camping? Yeah. So he was saying he would be willing, like, Friday was supposed to be a dark day. So he was good. He had been screened for time. But now that they're deciding to make Friday a court day, which is a bummer, because I thought we'd have it off and I could, you know, see you. But now that they're saying we have to have court on Friday, it's like the snow day that

never was, you know, we got to use it this extra day. He had plans to go camping, so he gets excused. Well, you, you can jump on the, you know, you can jump on the, the judges club med camping experience with, you know, in Sedona with the other jurors or something. I mean, I don't, okay. Yeah, but he had something schedule. It's not his fault. I get it.

Yeah. It makes more sense. It just makes more sense. It just sounded. It sounded. It sounded funny. The jurors are going camping. Right.

The jurors are going to go deliver a. They're going to deliver a camp. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't know what's going on,

it sounds like a juror retreat. No. It's just more so saying. And he said he said he was embarrassed. But tell me about that. That was an interesting choice of words. He's embarrassed. Is that because he's lost some control?

He's brought the jurors in twice? Well, yeah, right. Yes. I mean, I'm sure that's part of it is the judge's, you know, biggest role is to maintain, you know, impartiality, first of all, and to, you know, have a certain amount of decorum and order in the courtroom and to move things along, right, to stay on schedule, right? And he's losing a lot of that.

And he's, he's, he's accountable to the jury in their time, right? He's accountable to the, everyone in the courtroom. And he's, yeah, he's, if he hasn't lost it, he's, he's on the cusp of losing it. So, you know, when they, when she comes in Wednesday morning, there's going to be some fireworks. It's going to be really interesting because I don't see a lot of movement on her part. Yeah. And I'll be there. I know, well, you know, especially if she's in a stretcher.

There'll hardly be any movement. If she's in a stretcher, then I forget what, who, I forget the name of the person, the viewer you put up, but she'll win the bat. So we'll have to, we'll have to make sure that we give a shout out. Again, this, yeah, this is what Judge Bereski said off camera. but in the courtroom we were there that all the potential jurors come in and he has to give him the news he has to give him the news that he you know laura he's taking control of his courtroom and he says that he's embarrassed and never has he had this happen in his entire career and we won't be able to

resume until wednesday and then excused your for to go camping he's been on i assume he's been on the bench for a while i mean right yeah that that's That's amazing, right? Like he's never lost control of his courtroom like this until, of course, but he's never run into the buzz saw that is Lori Valo Daybell. So there's that. I know. I wish you just remind her that she's a translated being.

I wish you would just say, but you're translated. You don't get sick. Right. Help me explain that. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. That's a really good point.

She shouldn't get sick. Yeah. Yeah, unless she's turned dark. Colby said earlier that Lori is afraid to confront Brandon. Do you think this could be a factor? Yes. That was a little. I mean, I think it's a factor. But I think when you look at the bigger picture, when you put all the pieces together, she's lost repeatedly to this judge. She wants this judge out of the picture. She's failed at that. Like, it's a combination of things. I mean, sure. You know, the problem she has with Brandon is he survived. So there's got to be shame in confronting someone you tried to murder and they lived. Everyone else they murdered, but not Brandon.

So I'm sure there's some level of shame there. Yeah. And Lori's not someone who does shame very well. So I don't think she wants to confront. And we saw that with Kay Woodcock, right? that during Charles's trial that Kay was assertive and she really didn't, she wasn't very confrontational with Kay. She was very kind of passive in a way.

And so I think with Brandon, you may see that at a higher level. So yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure that's part of this. She doesn't, I don't think she ever imagined that this trial would occur. And now that it's here, now that we're on the. doorstep of this trial and it's real, this is what you've got. This is what we're getting is this malingering, I mean, this probable malingering. Alleged, this alleged malingering that she seems to be engaging in. Speculative malingering. You guys decide for yourselves. And some people are saying, hey, maybe she's sick. You know what? Maybe she is. But I'll say,

this. If I was sick, I would be asking for medication. I would be asking for tests. I would be wearing my mask to make sure others around me didn't get sick. I would be apologizing. I would be saying I could probably feel better by Wednesday. I would ask for maybe additional medical care. I would say that what might, I think, could help me feel better. You know, I wouldn't threaten throwing up on a TV and then, you know, refusing to get in a chair. I'm just saying, I'm just saying are speculating is fair and also i think to me the best evidence that she's not sick is the judge right the judge clearly does not judge does not believe her undeniably believes that she's malingering the judge is not buying this he's never seen this in his i don't know 20 years of

yeah on the bench um right like everything about this to the judge looks wrong, it looks fake. So to me, like without even assessing it, without knowing, if you don't know anything about Lori, like just the judge's reaction in and of itself is strong evidence that she is faking this. Yeah, yeah, right. There is evidence the show she is faking it

and past representation of what she's done Right, give this person's in day quell and get on with it. You know what I mean? But she's eating citrus for that stomach bug. I do wonder if they can force testing in the prison too for viral fever, you know, for anything before Wednesday. Yeah, I don't know. I was wondering that too. The judge didn't seem to order it.

But, yeah, I don't know. I know you've got to run. Yep. All right. Okay. Thanks, babe. Thanks for coming on. All right.

Yep. I don't know. Maybe I'll be home. Maybe I'll be home sooner than you know it. Yeah. You might be, you might be heading back Wednesday when the trial gets delayed. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Okay. We'll see you, babe. Okay. Bye. I knew about investing, but I really didn't know how to go about it. Meet Corey, a wealthfront client. With Wealthfront, it could put money in, and it would automatically distribute it into a diversified portfolio.

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