Hidden True Crime - RUBY FRANKE/JODI HILDEBRANDT: Adam Steed Attends Sentencing and sits down with Hidden True Crime

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

After the sentencing of Utah therapist Jodi Hildebrandt, we follow-up with her former patient and one of her victims--Adam Steed. (You can listen Adam's original interview with Hidden True Crime HERE ) Justice is served in a Utah courtroom on February 20th, 2024 in the case of YouTuber mom Ruby Franke and her therapist Jodi Hildebrandt. Hidden Host Lauren Matthias reported live that morning from St George, Utah. Stay tuned for additional episodes and a full report of the days events. Host and psychologist Dr John Matthias will also soon weigh in on the statements. August 30, 2023--a brave 12-year-old boy escapes a house of torture in Southern Utah --rescuing himself and his 10-year-old sister. A neighbor feeds the emaciated boy and calls 911. The children's mother YouTube Celebrity Ruby Franke, and Ruby's therapist Jodi Hildebrandt, are arrested and charged with 6 counts of aggravated child abuse. To learn more about Adam Steed and his victimization from Jodi Hildebrandt: https://tinyurl.com/22kcfkpe Adam Steed v Boy Scouts of America: https://law.justia.com/cases/idaho/supreme-court-civil/2007/steed.html Thank you for subscribing to our podcast and to our YouTube channel LAUREN MATTHIAS has worked as an anchor and reporter for ABC, NBC, and FOX News in East Idaho, Boise, Idaho and Salt Lake City, Utah. She received the Idaho State Broadcaster’s Association Best Reporter award and is a frequent contributor on News Nation. She left the reporting world to produce the Hidden True Crime Podcast along with her husband Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist. HIDDEN: A TRUE CRIME PODCAST is: CRIMINAL PSYCHOLOGY REINVENTED. Join us on a journey into the darkest recesses of the human mind and the unconscious motivations that drive human behaviors in order to understand the world and ourselves. WEBSITE: https://hiddentruecrime.com/ TO SUPPORT: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, Hidden Jans, a quick test of the mic before we start talking with my guest here with me. I always say, you know, in studio, you are in studio with me and it's so good to finally meet you in person, the Adam Paul Steed. We're sharing. a mic here at this desk here that's travel desk. Many might recognize Adam for that moment you took the law and crime microphone after Jody Hilda Brantz and Ruby Frankie's sentencing and he stood there and you're like, give me that mic. I was on law and crime watching and I was like, go Adam, go. You know what it's like to be silenced for 25 years and just have it exponentially compounded? I'm sorry. It was a highly emotional experience in the courthouse. The prosecutor had files that I filed with Doppel that were redacted because of their sensitive nature. So the public doesn't really know kind of issue how damaging this case has been to my family. And my daughter and my son were there right by me. And the prosecutor had us go into the courthouse and sit on the front bench.

right across from the, like we were the family sitting there right in the front row. And they had you sit there. Yeah. And I've had my children. No child deserves the legacy Jody Hilda Brown left behind in the world, these beautiful children trying to remedy this, you know, this atrocity of having your father accused of abusing them. the way that she did. And they were so brave to be there in the court today. And it was a

highly emotionally tense situation. I knew as a father, my children needed to see this. And they showed me trust. And even though it was really tough, I know at one moment, my daughter, Rora has just been on edge. It's just been so tough to, people have no idea the impact this person had. The prosecutor knows he's seen the redacted files. He has. He's seen the redacted files. He had us sit on the front bench as the victim family for this case. That's incredible. So a place, you know, not a lot of the Frankie showed up, but you showed up and your family showed up today. You're several hours from home. This is not close to where you live. You've traveled to be here. Let me explain to, for many people who don't know, let me explain who Adam Paul Steed is, who is sitting

next to me. He is because many of you also saw him for the first time taking that law and crime microphone after the sentencing. So we, though, I hit into crime where your very first interview ever. Is that correct? I think so. I think so too. So we reached out to Adam when this, when Jody Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie were arrested and charged, we quickly reached out to you because what we learned is that there was one person, one former client who had been able to suspend Jody Hildebrand's license for a time. I mean, it should have been more, but you did that. You fought and you did that. And so we reached out to Adam and he ended giving his entire story to hidden true crime over the phone. It's in two parts on our YouTube channel as well as our podcast, how you were victimized by Jody Hildebrand, how you are a trauma survivor.

And then since that time, you've done several interviews and now we're here at her sentencing. So I just want to explain to people who he is. You were also a victim of the Boy Scouts of America and a whistleblower. You can read all about that. In fact, we have the link to Adam's first interview in the description of this video. And if you go to there in the description of that interview with us, I put all the links to everything, how you were a whistleblower and the articles that you're in and everything you relate. So if anybody wants to delve into Adam Paul Steve that doesn't know, there you go.

So you were a victim. And then you went from being a victim at a child victim of abuse to then being told to go to Jody Hildebrand by your LDS, Bishop, is that correct? Correct me? Yeah, yeah. It's just crazy because the scouting case settlement happened. We just got done changing the statute. If you really think about it, the statute of limitations is a multibillion-dollar institution's worst fear because if they're protecting themselves, they don't want victims of child abuse and cover-ups and institutional stuff to come forward and have their day in court. And the second most powerful Mormon state was Idaho, and it just sent shell shock through

the church law firms when my dad and I, while suing scouting, because I turned a case in the day before the five-year statute was up, which was bizarre that there was a five-year statute. We simultaneously passed the laws to change that. And I think it just scared the institution because scouting had, you know, 40% membership of Boy Scouts of America, who has now come out with over 97,000 victims of abuse. And the scouting were using the church legal department to handle their abuse cases. So the church was very liable for everything. And, you know, when you think from a small room in a billionaire section,

somebody changed those laws in there in Utah. and next thing I know my bishop called me in. And I was just told that we should go counseling because, because, you know, we were victims of abuse, and this is part of the procedure when you do a settlement, it's to help you with trauma and stuff. And Bishop sent me to Jody Hildebrand. But now that in retrospect, I think it was an inside job.

I think that the Mormon church had a racket with Jody Hilda Brandt in the fourth district court, the Utah County, fourth district court. I think there is a massive amount of evidence to support this. Documented evidence, it's not just me talking. Even, for example, we just see it all the time. Just when they took my kids away and took my custody away and never found any abuse allegations,

one of the things in the guardian at Lytum who's supposed to be a neutral person in the court, one of his arguments, I just read this on an email yesterday. I mean, we're always finding new stuff in my old emails. He argued before the judge that me turning Jody Hildebrand into doppel for these crimes against my family was an act of vengeance. My children were sexually, one of my children was sexually abused in the very act of her mother and Jody Hildebrand trying to fake child abuse against me. And they documented it. And those documents, when the psych therapist looked at them in the case, said they had to turn them into the police and that it constituted sexual abuse.

So my beautiful, innocent children, after all the abuse I'd been through to know how bad it was, I watched my own child get sexually abused under the crisp of Jody Hilda Brand. Wow. And to, you know, and, you know, I told Doty also before that that my biggest fear as a victim of abuse was that. people would think I would become that way because that's what we were told at church growing up, that the abusers were once abused. And I don't believe that anymore at all. But there was just an insecurity. And as my counselor, I was talking about the trauma of how the small-minded people would treat you like you were a different citizen. You weren't a regular class citizen because of what happened to you. And, you know, the twisted irony that

that Jody would then methodically decide the or was instructed to methodically set me up to make me look like I was a predator was the worst thing that could have possibly happened in my lifetime. And, you know, it's just bizarre on so many levels. I mean, you get a wife that reminds me a lot of Ruby Frankie, my ex-wife, reminds me a lot of Ruby Frankie. And, you know, she had some control issues. And she gets handed this full custody thing with all these creepy things that had no basis but worked. And so the last 15 years of my life, I haven't had custody of my children while I've had to pick them up, take them everywhere.

I haven't had custody of my children while I've had them on summer vacations for a month at a time. I haven't had, and after a huge fight of not being with them, and then we live, together and they lived 80% of the time with me. I didn't have custody of my children. So whenever my ex wanted to call the police on me or not let me see medical records or spread rumors around grade schools and junior highs that I was a sexual predator, she could.

And my children were so embarrassing. My children grew up in this world of, Dad, can you pick me up around the side of the school? I don't want them to see, you know, it's so embarrassing for them to have the principal walk me off of the bus and say, I have to drive while other people parents couldn't. When my girlfriend was hit by a car and three years ago and died in the emergency

room or in the neuros hospital part, my ex-wife called four sets of police to come and take the children away who were mourning the loss of what John said was like as if my mom had died when I was 10. That's what it was like for him. Four sets of police because she had paperwork from the fourth district court that said I had no custody whatsoever. And that I had kidnapped the children. And she would, I mean, these are, these is people who should have never had power. And it was so horrific how much power they could just abuse and take and cause. And we could never get on with our lives and live our lives.

They took away my chance for education, for school, for everything. But the worst thing they did, I promised when I was a victim of abuse, I'd protect my children. And the worst thing, what's worse than the child abuse that happened to me was where they tried to, make personify that I was like that, that I had boundaries issues because I was a victim of abuse. This is what they argued. And Jody Hildebrandt masterminded this stuff. And that's the thing people don't get. She knew exactly what the weakness was and how to work with it. So I don't mean to just say all this stuff. When I came out of the courtroom, I was super emotional. And I feel it coming on right now. I promised when I came to this interview, I would just be like, all calm down. And when you

have trauma, you monologue, and I have a lot of trauma. So I'm going to try to like practice some skills here. Do you have a question? I don't, I don't mean to. No, no, and you're great. Please monologue away. And as you say, it's hard when you stay silent for 25 years. I think you explained it. But what you're saying actually to me sort of implies it, you know, a lot of people want to hold Kevin Frankie responsible, but you're kind of, do you have some empathy for Kevin then after what you've been through because it sounds like he was sort of separated from his children. You know, I don't know, Kevin. We're thinking of going out for dinner a couple of times. We've texted. I even, I knocked on his door. Wow. I don't know what got into me. I went over his

house and I knocked on his door and his friend was there who was a BYU guy. And I said to his friend, I said, Kevin will want to talk to me. because you know my story's 1.0 of a two point and they're cookie-cutter stories and I know that that's not a fame grab I'm not a I'm not a famous person no but if you saw the way that Jody got into people's minds I think Kevin feels like this is all his fault I feel I think that he might feel like he was put up and that he should have been the guy that took care of all of this and I think Jody made him feel that it was all his fault and that he's coming to terms still on what this whirl when that happened to him. And I think that because the manipulation was so sophisticated, had so many steps and was so

identical, I think it would be incredibly healing just to hear that you're not the only one that had this crazy, specific thing happened to them. I remember talking to some of the first victims that had the same thing happened to them, and it was identical not just in like two or three steps, but from how she separated the spouses, how she alienated, which religious beliefs to make a person lose touch with reality, what carrots she swung in front of people to make their insecurities grab onto, what lies she spread,

and how she weaseled little lies in that caused huge problems later that you didn't understand. And then ultimately how she worked with the fourth district court in getting everybody to get protective order violations who weren't aggressive people and didn't even know what was happening. And they're all ending up in jail and then suddenly they're being looked at like pedophiles when they've never hurt children. and now how Jody would just, I mean, it's just incredible how many people, and I want to calm down for a sec, because this is what I want to say, there are probably hundreds of children that have Jody's legacy left in their life. Their parents went through a horrific divorce. Their dad was made to look like a sexual predator. and there are several attorneys in the 4th District Court that made millions and millions of dollars off of this.

These crazy cases that just fumbled everywhere. I mean, I was accused of sexual abuse, but then we found out after three years of fighting and hundreds of thousands of dollars of attorney fees that there was actually no allegation of sexual abuse against me. So what happened? Why did I get treated like a pedophile and lose everything? you know and there there are lots and lots of children that are victims that have you know in a sake of giving society what they need to know i give up some of the privacy of my own family but my children were deeply indoctrinated they're probably the most influential woman

in my children's life has been jodi hilda brant through their mother and the the ongoing legacy she's left behind. And, you know, it was so raw in the courtroom today, I didn't expect my daughter to swing my hand off her shoulder and just want curl up in a ball, not knowing, like, this is super traumatic for her. This is traumatic for me. This is traumatic for our son. But I know that if we tell the truth and we work through the trauma a little bit, that our lives will get straightened out. And, you know, I was a victim of sexual abuse. And I always kind of felt like mentally ill and a little bit crazy. you know when we've talked to victims.

Then they suddenly the national news was interested in my story and they made me a hero. And they all, it's kind of like Harry Potter, you know, where like everyone's talking about you. Like you're this like greater than you don't know really why. But later in your life, you'd start to learn these unfolding things. And I started seeing the national news to bat for me and the people to bat for me. And all these laws change. And then I saw. Brad go to prison for a long time and the people lose their jobs that were hiding it in the Mormon

church and scouting, not by the church's efforts or scouting's efforts. It was them settling. But when I saw that, it vindicated me. When I got awards, I have a lot of national awards now. And it just, the craziness just left. It was like 20 years of therapy, gone or worked out successfully. I just felt good and normal. I saw something. I saw that it's like a teeter-totter. When the guilt isn't put on the people responsible, it stays on the victims, Jody's responsible.

The Mormon church is complicit and responsible in a huge way. The fourth district court and the racket they had is responsible. I forgot if I just mentioned this, a little trauma with me, but I just read that the guardian at Lytum in my case, Kelly Peterson, And this is just an example. When they took my kids away, his argument to the judge was that I was,

that me turning Jody Hildebrand into Dopple was an act of vengeance. Wow. And I have that in writing from the court documents. And then they punished me. Then Commissioner Patton, they punished me. They punished me. They all believed they were to completely embed with Jody and hiding. It proves, though, that she does make it so that she's always a victim.

you turn her in for something she did and it was an act of vengeance on you to turn her in. Again, she's the victim. It shows that she is able to do that in a very frightening way. Like she's gotten away with that for so long, not today. She's had a lot of help. Yeah. She's not, you know, the money they earn off of a case that's highly contended to turn into an ugly divorce between people who can't accept being. called child abusers who aren't. I mean, it's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars a case sometimes.

And the attorneys and the judges and the people. And in my case, the fact that I was the whistleblower and the church sent me, I mean, of course the church has its own private records and they monitor all these crazy cases. And this was an ongoing huge thing. She was like a garbage exposure for Adam Steed. The guy that probably would have changed the laws in Utah 15 years ago to protect victims of sexual abuse because the amount of information we had and the moral aptitude of the people. But they completely dismantled me with my kryptonite, my insecurities of being a victim of sexual abuse. And then she just drove them through the roof. And yeah, I mean, it was just insane. Did Jody see you today then? You know, I think she saw me, like they put me right in the

front row my family was right there in the front row and she turned and she just moved her head really quick she didn't want to look she wanted to show that she wouldn't look at us you know right and and um but i saw her from the back and i just a visceral feeling i i've never i'm not a violent person but i felt violence i felt violence just being close to her i felt the these violent just i'm not a violent guy, but just the danger this woman has represented my life. You know, it's always been such a funny thing because she does it in such a so many, I mean, this crazy way of so many variables. Like at one time I had 10 institutions going after me at the same time, 10 from every different direction. Who could, who's capable of doing that normally? And she's so systematic and that it's just

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code hidden true crime at checkout. That's True Diagnostic, T-R-U-D-A-G, and O-T-I-C-C-com. Just use code hidden-true crime to save 20-1. 20% off. Plus, if you subscribe, you'll get an additional 20% off. Discover your true age today. I had this feeling when I saw her, my hand started shaking, and I couldn't stop my hand from shaking. I just felt adrenaline everywhere. I looked over at my dad, and my dad was shaking, too. Wow. Like, this is a lady that has defined our lives for us. But not anymore.

Not anymore. What did you think of her statement today at her sentence? Completely utterly false. Well, and I don't think she said much either. She claimed to love the children, and then she never said, I take responsibility for this in any way. No, I was told by an insider that her phone calls were completely narcissistic to the end. Well, that's pretty much what they said in court, too. The judge said, you showed no remorse even when you knew you were being recorded.

Yeah, she. You know, it's it's just you know, I always talk about Ted Bundy. Remember how even like when he was on death row women still believed he was innocent? Like that's what makes Jody's so dangerous. Like there's yeah, there's just like this ability. Well, when she was punished by doppel, um, checking out some of your comments.

Oh, sorry, I haven't been reading. You guys are making a really good effort here, and I'm sorry if I missed any of your comments. I'm telling you, trauma mode is just terrible social skills. Well, everybody's been supportive. Oh, thank you for your support. I really appreciate that. Adam, your bravery. Yeah.

Yeah, you mentioned my daughter is the brave one that decided to be in the courtroom today. Because for her, when I was a victim of sexual abuse, coming forward was really, really, really tough. And she's also a victim of sexual abuse. And she knows that. And kind of the words I heard today is that the doppel are thinking of unredacting the files because they're considering the responsibility to the public is more important than the privacy. So you have this, you know, when I shared the details of sexual abuse that happened to me when the idle Falls prosecutors and the scouting board were trying to hide everything. It was just a real psychological experience to go through the first time.

And so my daughter is a hero. And my son, too, he's been such a good support. Do they understand more now what you've been through after all of this? I mean, what they've been through too, but do they see more clearly, but what they've both been through? And you since? I think they've known all the details for 10 years. Okay.

Because when we saw how corrupt the court was, my dad pulled me aside and he said, if we don't show them the, we can't say disparaging stuff, but if you don't tell the truth about what happened, these kids will get mental illness. You know, if there's a predatorial thing against the kid and you're like, oh, that's a great thing. Everything's fine. Your kids will get mental illness. So it was a really challenging thing to be told all these really strict rules that we couldn't talk to our children about.

And there are children that we love and they need our help. And so I made the decision just to tell them the truth and to help not be vindictive or angry, but just share the truth. And even if it was a little traumatic, which it was at points. But I was really careful when they were kids not to share much just over the years when they would talk to me more and more. and ask questions and stuff I would share more. I didn't want to put their mom in a negative light or anything, but I had to tell the truth about this type of abuse so that they wouldn't have mental illness.

And so my children have known everything for 10 years. But it's different to see the mag, you know, when you know the facts, like you know about T-Rex and you know about planets far away, but you don't really know, it's just kind of fake. and it's out there. But it's different when you're sitting in the front row of a worldwide courtroom. And this woman's going to be put away probably for life.

And your her body count, it starts to put it into perspective of how real this actually has been. And dad's not just crazy. And he doesn't just have like a chip on his shoulder. They're real dangerous people in this world. did horrible things and got away with it and have maintained that power. And as a parent, you're just like scared to death and you're trying to help. These are logical things in an illogical situation. Yeah. Did you see Kevin today? Did you talk to Kevin today? I didn't talk to Kevin. So my kids are 17 and 15 and then we have an eight-month-old baby with my new wife.

and I don't want to mix up my new wife, my ex-wife. Very different. Very different. And congratulations on your family now and your new baby. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I didn't see Kevin. It was kind of an emotional thing for me. I mean, I came out of the courthouse just shaking and was asked to speak somewhere and somewhere. and then was just all alone just standing there not knowing what was going on.

And then I grabbed your microphone. I think that's what I grabbed it. I don't remember. I was, I mean, they told me to, I think someone handed it to me and then I grabbed it. But I didn't mean to grab it. It was a great moment. It was a great moment to have you stand there and share your truth. What about the kids?

Like, what about all these other kids that have been taught that their dads are saying? sexual predators. The 4th District Court in Utah, Utah County Court, knows that it makes them like, they got to be ducking their heads. They got to be like all these cases we did with Jody Hildebrand, these infamous cases, which is funny, it ties into Mormon doctrine because Mormon doctrine, you look at a woman and lust after her, that's the same thing as committing adultery. And they put that right up with next to murder. And so they treat these divorce cases like child abuse. They treat like normal guys like child abusers. And Jody Hildebrand was, you know, like a lion out in the field in the grass that matched doing

all this stuff. You've got all these victims of children and have learned to associate a parent as like a sexual predator. And when my case comes out and all the documents start to come out of how guilty these people are like what are the courts going to do are they going to are they going to open up and look at possibly an investigation inside of the courts where are they going to care enough are they going to have the energy to go after all the children that have grown in this for years and years do they give a damn about these children that need healing even if it causes some trauma for them to get there like like who who cares about these people and if they have these children if they have mental illness from this or degrees of

trauma and stress and it's broken then they want to have like happy relationships and beautiful life and they and they fill this stuff like who's going to help them if the courts don't take responsibility for helping jodi they're just busy hiding everything which we have tons of evidence that they were i mean even recently they ordered me that i can't tell my story and they made it made me take it down saying that they didn't buy the argument. This is just recently. They said they didn't buy the argument that my children even knew any of this stuff. So if I speak to the press or the internet, that's like me.

They took an old thing from a divorce decree from like 13 years ago. And it said that I wouldn't say negative things about mom. Or either parent wouldn't say negative things about the other parent or use a third party to do it. So here we're this victim of this horrific crime that we need to heal from. And they're trying to take away from us the ability to heal. Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's what I mean.

And they're not the same. And they took away my Fifth Amendment. And they said, the thing said for minor children, my children, judge, you were wrong. My children came to this hearing today. You were wrong about what they know. And they need to heal. And you stood in the way. And you lied.

You lied because you saw the interviews online. and you saw all the press and all the, or all the comments, and you lied in that courtroom and made it look like I only said negative things about my ex. And I violated this. And then you made my ex promise too that she couldn't say anything to the press either. You know, how bizarre that sounds, it's just this big old cover up. And, and, you know, it's just like if you have gang green, you got to heal it. You don't just wrap it up. Like my family is in the healing process and you you guys, you try to take this away from us. And the thing is, if we can't heal, then how could all the people that have tons more healing just to start into this process unpacking it? I mean,

I've got victims calling me, texting me, writing me messages saying they don't even know how to begin to unpack this. How can all these people unpack this, all these children unpack this, and heal their relationships with their fathers and men and women? There's all these Jody Juniors and, and, and, And women like my ex out there that have written me have said they've destroyed their ex-husband's life. So they were following Jody and they don't know how to live with their life now. Like that judge lied. In fact, in that court, that judge said that she cared more about that I'm not contempt to court than she cared about the truth. So if you had somebody come up and say, we want you to follow the rules more than we care about the truth in your children's lives.

So I'm illegal. I'm practicing civil disobedience because I love my children, and I love those children out there that have been done wrong to. And I even love the ex-wives that hurt their husbands and the husbands that got destroyed. I'm fighting for you. I practice civil disobedience for you because your lives matter. You matter so, so much. And everybody has been through an experience like this, there is good.

And I want to inspire you to stand up for truth. So anyway, and I do believe in the healing, and I admit, again, I've repeated this a lot because it's an emotional thing, and it's repeated, but you've got to face the trauma straight on a little bit and expect that it's going to make you feel bad for a while. And just accept that that's part of the process. And then after a while, you'll start feeling better than ever. You won't have these triggers everywhere. They'll be smaller and more manageable, and you can have a happy life. I'm happily married. We have our tough moments now.

And then I still have PTSD, but it's like it went from a capital PTSD to a lower case PTSD. It's a lot of jokes in between the P and the T and the S and the D. And that's what happens over time. But that process can become beautiful, but you got to start it and you got to get some help if you've been through this stuff. And they're keeping this help. The fourth district court is keeping this help by hiding what happened to me.

they're hiding the help that all of these people need. I love that you're speaking out. I hope that this is therapy for you, that you aren't silenced. I have no question for you, except for... I did get married again. Yes, and a beautiful family.

If there is anything else you want to say, feel free to say it here. So that's my last question to you. Is there anything else you'd like to say? I feel a little bad that I haven't done more to support the people that have really. reached out to me that have been victims. It's been a balancing act just to be able to come forward on this.

But I feel that there are a lot of people who have the, I feel like when we talk together in a group, it becomes really easy. Like if one person told us about this crazy thing called gas lighting and none of us had ever seen it before, we probably wouldn't understand how complicated it is. Right. Right, and our listeners understand it. Just, you know, our listeners are well-versed. We have a forensic psychologist as a host, and we talk about crime every day.

We understand gas-lighting. We understand a lot of those manipulative tendencies. You are, this is, I like this comment. You're enough. You can't be everyone's therapist and fight the battle at the same time. It's a great thing to remember. Hey, thank you. That's true.

However, somebody on Reddit said there were subcommittee rules, and they didn't want any of the, any people to contact. me and what I know is when we snowballed and brought down Boy Scouts of America, it was because victims reached out to each other. So I even wondered if those comments were made by somebody who was protecting the process from happening. So just to let you know where I feel about that, I think all victims need to have the courage and need to start working with each other, except that there's going to be some trauma, if they can, to those who can. And, And we need to get together because may isolate us, dispatch us, and separate us.

We can't really fight legally or anything, but a whole lot of us get together, and we all have the same true story. Then we can change stuff. And as victims who can, we should change the world because if we don't, who will? Like, we need to do this for ourselves and for everyone else. Oh, so Jody's absolutely afraid of victims. Yeah, she's absolutely afraid. Her whole strategy is to get this over with before they have the ability to come forward. She thinks that she perplexed it so much that they can't come forward.

Wow. And I can tell you that from a very reliable source. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. There was another question it came and went, but asking what's next? Are you going to continue fighting for justice?

Are you going to work on healing, a little bit of both? You know, I've often found healing in like two different worlds. The deeper heavy topic world kind of sucks to be in for a long time. You've got to come go in and out until you make the changes you need. But I'm, so in that area, there's healing when we change things like today to see her in prison and going to prison. And the, but I love my life with my children and my family, but there's, it's kind of like Lord of the Rings when Strider is avoiding his calling. Like, I'm trying not to sound narcissistic here. but when you've changed the only laws on sexual child abuse for a long time to protect it

and you're sitting there next to mount whatever that rich mountain with all the riches downtown salt lake is and there's just this huge amount of victims have been pulled under the laws in Utah have to change but it's not enough to change laws that move from here forward all the people that miss the statute of limitations don't understand yet that when the complex they're going to find out that they were victims of duress, which creates a situation where the statues can arguably be stayed, and then these people can have their day in court. And so we need victims to come forward. We need their stories to be told. We need their overwhelming voices to be here. And the corruption, in the most general sense, I mean, it's like pick a traumatic topic. Was it

covering up sexual abuse, or was it covering up therapists that created sexual abuse in one's head and or even in my case with people's with people's children you know like like but in so many areas when people violated the church and state boundary by trying to force a religious agenda through ethical professions there's just bleeding the secrecy and the corruption and the trauma of an entire generation of people or generations even and i kind of feel like what's next? I'm not good at predicting the future. I'll be more, I'll be prophetic here for a minute.

All these victims are going to slowly get their voice, get their courage and come forward. And then it'll organize into positions of power. They'll get vindication. They'll get their day in court. They'll get change that will bring children back to fathers and women to say, sorry that they were led astray. are men to say sorry and they did this wrong. But in a real world, not a fake one with an agenda.

And the healing could happen and that people could go off and live their dreams in life and not just be stuck like there's an unfinished business with a ghost that's just traumatic sitting around the corner from people. We got to fix that. And if we don't, who will. No, you guys don't want to get involved in this topic. Nobody does. but my girlfriend the night before she died,

before she was hit by car, I laughed because somebody asked me. They said, oh, you should run for office, and I laughed because I'm never going to run for office. I'm just going to put that out there. But I laughed, and I said, why would you think that? And she said, because you're brilliant and you're kind. And there's people out there who, and I don't look at myself as brilliant.

I just tell myself that to make me feel better for all my anatomy. cookies, but there's people out there that need our help. So in your victim, your story is, you know, there's a wall that you got to go through, but you get through that wall and you hold hands with a group of us and we share our stories. We will, I, that whether they duress us to stop us is not a question. It's that where are the victims? You know, we all know that, like the church and the legal law firm of our church betrayed our church and who were the people that told them to do what they did and we know that they you know ordained their legal law firm as bishop so they could secretly do the records and we know that when they paid for our

therapists and worked with our bishops those were the belief structures we had and they used that to Corral Agendas that protected the church. And now you've got all these damaged people. We know that in my case, with all the evidence forthcoming, we know that there was a whole racket with the courts in the Utah County courts and many, many other courts. I mean, now Daily Mail's writing about it. It's all over the place.

It's a endemic. When I was first reporting on scouting, I didn't know why this was such a big story. I thought it was a story of five or ten pedophiles at Scout Camp. didn't know 97,000 people would come forward, you know. And so there's victims all over that have been put into a place of duress, either by their religious beliefs in order to follow leaders because of the way the religious beliefs taught them was the only way of truth. You know, or using spiritual doctrines as a way to shame and corral people

into doing behaviors that would stop the truth from coming out. I mean, ultimately, I mean, the cases, of legal departments and church leaders having private councils about how to handle this stuff off the books, off the records. And we're just getting to the beginning of the fight of our lives in this area. The evidence, we need all of us victims and all of us people need to start sharing what happened to us

and bring that information together so we can put it all together. And that's how we'll do it. Then we'll get some really kick-ass attorneys, and we'll put it. And we'll push this stuff through the ceiling and we'll get all these people to get vindication that need it. That's what I would like to. It's not what I want to do. But I know that's what our people need.

All of our people need this. You're helping to make this happen. We all know that we need to heal our people. Thank you. And that's how it's got to happen. Yeah. And it's funny. There was once an apostle that gave a general conference talks that said when,

you hold a child that's our past, our future, and our present. You know, people sometimes ask me, why are you still so upset about this stuff from 15 years ago? I mean, it was my one time in life to start a family. Well, apparently not so. Now I got one. But if you don't stand up and you don't help, who's going to change the world for our children? Well, fun. Or for our grandparents who are going delusional with this abuse that happened to them.

Yeah, the cycle continues. And that's why you're standing up and speaking. And for that, I'm grateful that you came, met me here. I reached out. I asked if you'd come here after I saw you holding that long cry microphone. I was like, I got to talk to you. Don't apologize. I was still out of place.

I am complimenting you. I was complimenting you. I was like, I got to get them on here. We got to talk to it. You would like to be like on the front row and see this evil person and have your two children there and you're just praying to God that they're going to understand. how they're going to internalize this in this moment. And then you walk outside and it's like a million reporters and moving like this.

I didn't. Yeah, it was it was nuts of a day. Normal people can do extraordinary things, get involved, help and change the world. That's what I believe in. Thank you. I just pinned a Mormon stories podcast because it is true. We're going to jump up this live and then I'm going to actually go live over there. to talk about what happened today.

So please join us over at Mormon Stories. And thank you to everyone that's just following this coverage continually. It's such an important day for justice. I want to say this. Justice will serve today in Utah. Aggravated abuse for a child is a second-degree felony. And I hope that changes. It needs to change.

It needs to increase. But today's sentencing, we saw that they could likely get the ultimate that they could get today. And should it be more likely? Yes, it should have. Clearly, look at Adam here years later, a victim still going through his trauma. But when it came to Utah laws, justice was served, and I hope that more victims will be able to come out.

And I'm not saying justice was served for you necessarily, But justice was served for the children for the charges that have come down. But there are other victims and justice still needs to be served for you and others. And I'm so grateful that you are finding your voice. And I am so grateful you took that long crime microphone. And I am so grateful that every camera was on you for that moment so that you could have your voice after 25 years. Yeah, it was. It was, thank you.

It was an honor to help everybody. And I probably should take more public speech in classes, but, you know, I'll try my best. That's why I'm here. That's why I'm here. And everyone are here to help you with that. You just speak your truth. And we'll lead and guide and give you that platform you need. I was like, look at me.

I was proud of you. And then you're like, dad, get over here. I think I called Elder Helium Richard G. Helam. I was so nervous. I was so nervous. I don't remember. I don't know. It was just, it was great. Thank you for your time. I sure appreciate it. And I look forward to all of us together changing this world. Thank you. Thanks everyone for being here and for supporting. We'll see you. Bye-bye. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day.

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