Hidden True Crime - Second Deadline Looms as Investigators Zero In on Circle K Footage in Nancy Guthrie Disappearance

Episode Date: February 7, 2026

Lauren Matthias is joined by Vinnie Politan for a conversation about the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie and the questions surrounding a possible ransom situation. Vinnie shares rare personal insight as someone who knows Savannah Guthrie, adding important context as they walk through what has been confirmed and what remains unclear. They talk about the authenticity of the alleged ransom note, whether a family would realistically pay a ransom, and what law enforcement may be weighing as a reported vehicle of interest draws attention. They also explore a critical possibility: what it means for the investigation if this is not a true ransom scenario at all. Sponsor: Use code HIDDEN at jonesroadbeauty.com to get a Free Shimmer Face Oil with your first purchase! #JonesRoadBeauty #ad About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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channel and the tangent true crime podcast host. Someone that I actually want to say right off the bat, you know Savannah Guthrie. We are going to talk today about the Nancy Guthrie disappearance. This is a heartbreaking case. It's heartbreaking for everyone following this, but not only that you know Savannah personally even, you've worked with her. Yeah. Yeah. When she made her entrance into the national media world that she dominates now, right, as the host of the Today Show, she started at Court TV. She was a correspondent. And from the minute she entered the network, like you could tell that she was something special. But what you really got from her is when you had those personal moments where you could speak to her. And she always, always talked about her family and her mother.

And I mean, that was from, you know, from the beginning, from the beginning. So when I heard about this, I was like, this is, this is a gut punch. This is brutal. Like all of the stuff we cover obviously is brutal. But I know how important and how close that bond is with her mother. And people may have seen it, you know, some of the appearances on the today show. That stuff's legit. Like what you're seeing there, she's not putting on a show.

Like that's, that's legit. And that's just, you know, a little piece. of what that relationship was like because Savannah lost her dad when she was, you know, graduating high school. Yeah. So, you know, it was her and her mom and obviously her siblings as well. But like you have just one parent. And it's difficult.

And then I saw the video of Savannah. And I think all of us saw, you know, what a toll all of this is taking, the reality of it. And for me, the strange thing, I don't know if this has ever happened to you before. This is the first story I've covered where I know the victim beforehand, right? Like I know Savannah before this. So I have some perspective. A lot of times we just meet people after the tragedy or in the middle of the tragedy. And we don't really know, all right, are they putting on a show?

No, no, this is like real. And it's made it a much different experience for me. and I think because so many people have that relationship with her in the morning, right, as the host of the Today Show, that they're feeling this one a little differently as well. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, you had Glenn Jones on your podcast, Jonesy, and he said similarly, he said that she is so kind, you know, that she worked at Core TV, and she made everyone feel welcome, and she was one of the kindest, most sincere, genuine person.

And, right, the love of her mother has been on display. for the entire nation on today show where she brings her on. It is an absolutely heart-breaking. It's just to watch it, to see an anchor that we all know in a video begging for her mother or mommy to come home and to be so concerned, it's psychological warfare out there as well. I really feel. No, it is. Think about the position she's been put in.

And, you know, once we get into some of the, evidence in this case, but like, is someone holding her for money? And will they release her? Is she alive? Like, there are no answers to any of those questions, right? Nothing that like is seemingly rock solid from what we know. But the position that you're in, right? Give us the money. There's a deadline. And then from a human perspective, I'm thinking about how could you put someone in that position, but then you don't provide them the information that says, okay, yeah, I am the one that has your mom and your mom's okay. Like you're not providing that information, but you're demanding the money. So now she's put in a position with her brother and sister.

Like, is this the only hope, only chance we have? As slim as it may be. So how do you handle that deadline? How do you decide whether or not to pay the money or not? Absolutely. And let me be clear, as far as we know, still no. Proof of Life. Your company, Core TV, has received at least one ransom note. It's Kagan in Tucson Scripps Station. Is that right? I don't know if they've received two or not. I know KOLD in Tucson,

they've received one. KOLD and Tucson has received two. And the news director has stated, while they're keeping it very close to their chest, all the information in that, they have stated still no proof of life, right? So how do they even know whether or not, you know, there's even speculation still about whether the the ransom note is even real. I want your perspective on that. But if it is real, how do they know that she's even alive, still no proof of life? How easy would it be to be able to share proof of life in a second communication that they've sent a local affiliate down there in Tucson? So I guess I just threw out a multiple questions there. Let's start with this. First off, I do want your perspective. Do you think these ransom notes

are real, Vinnie? I'm leaning towards real. I'm leaning towards real. And the reason is is number one, the way law enforcement, particularly the FBI, has reacted to it. And if it, because there have been three notes, right? Like there was one note, three copies of it sent to three media organizations. That's the first one. Correct. That's the most important one.

There's a second one that's sent that is quickly investigated and dismissed an arrest, and an arrest is made. So that one was not treated as real. Now, this third one, likewise, they get the note, and then there seems to be some sort of reaction to it. And then you look at Savannah and her brother, Cameron, with the messages that they put out there. You're not going to put that message out if it's like, no chance this is real. Like, there's, there is a chance, and I think a real chance that is a legitimate note. if in fact the way Harvey 11 is describing some of the some of it if they're matching things in the

note to the house that no one else would necessarily know and everyone talks about proof of life but I think in that analysis there's another chance of life right if it's your child your sibling your mother your grandmother whoever it is all right you didn't give me proof of life, but is there a chance of life? So if there's chance of life, how does that work into my equation? Because at the end of the day, money is just money. Money's just money. It's not like we're exchanging. And I know the way law enforcement is looking at this and the guests I've had on have looked at it and they analyze, well, there's no proof of life. But is there a chance of life? And is it the only chance of life right now? And so what's what's the downside if you pay the ransom and

you don't get her. You lost some money. Well, look at the opposite, though. Look at the opposite, though. Look at the opposite. You don't pay the deadline passes. You never see your mother. What's the rest of the question for you? Then I have a question for you. As an attorney, you guys always talk about precedence. I mean, a lot of people saying they've never seen a case like this, right? Never seen a case. Well, it's 2026. We've never seen a lot of things like this before. We're in a world of AI, as Savantney Guthrie says herself. If they pay this ransom, does this set a precedent for a whole new world of possible danger out there? Does this set some sort of wild precedent of these new age of kidnappings where you can kidnap someone's mother and they can send some Bitcoin or crypto or whatever this is? And you never have to even show proof of life. And, you know, maybe she's alive. Maybe she's not take your chances here. I mean, it's kind of a frightening perspective for me watching this go down too.

But you're saying precedent, which is policy, which is like when our government doesn't negotiate with people, right? We don't negotiate with terrorists, however they say that because then it's going to happen again and again. But you only have one mother. You may only have one child. I'm looking at this from a personal perspective, like how do you make that choice, how difficult? is that choice. And is it which weighs more heavily? Proof of life or a chance of life. And I don't know what the demand is. It's been said it's in the millions. The one thing about all of this, though, that does give me a little bit of pause is the payment in Bitcoin, right?

To this to this address, this Bitcoin address. How is the person ever going to get the money? it's going to be impossible. I had an expert on. Like, this is all he does. He says, unless he goes to like a nation state like North Korea or China, there's no way to get your hands on the money without people being able to track you down. He said, this isn't under the radar. This is as in the spotlight as possible. So there are literally thousands and thousands of people in the blockchain.

We're going to track it down to be the. hero. So I don't know if it's not well thought out, if they have some plan or if that's the tell that this isn't real. Why would you demand Bitcoin of all the cryptocurrencies? Bitcoin is the one that is the most secure and easiest to trace. So some of those things don't make sense, but it comes back to this. Like what's the percent of chance of life that would make you pay as the deadline's approaching. If you get nothing else from law enforcement, no leads,

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This is horrific. You know, if the ransom note is real and thus I would say that equates to this being targeted, you know, the sheriff wouldn't say yes or no. You know, somebody asked in the press conference, is there any indication that she was targeted because of Savannah Guthrie? and the sheriff would not answer that. Do you think that she would be targeted because of Savannah Guthrie? And I mean, she clearly is probably better off than both of her siblings.

Do you think there's any way she wasn't targeted because of Savannah Guthrie? No, I think it's, I think it's Savannah. It has to be. I mean, what is she doing? She's 84 years old. Like, who's going after her? Like, and you could presume that, you know, people in that neighborhood have money. so maybe, okay, we, you know, happen chance.

We found this woman who lives by herself, so she would be a great target. But like, if it's a ransom and a kidnapping, then you've got to know there's a connection to like much more money, which obviously Savannah has access to and her family has access to. So I think it's absolutely targeted. You go in the neighborhood. Like, how do you know that house?

How do you pick that house? And it could be something as easy as, you know, someone, you know, either a vendor or an aide or somebody's at the house and then comes back and says, you won't believe whose house I was at today. Who? Oh, this woman, she's the mother of that lady on the Today Show. Who? Oh. Oh. And then that person just happens to be like a really bad person.

You know, it could be as simple as that. So I think it is targeted. I think Savannah and her family have been put in a terrible spot. That whole thing about your mother knows. That's more of the psychological warfare in all this. The blood is, is, the other thing is the 41 minutes. I don't understand the 41 minutes in the house. What is happening there?

What is happening in those 41 minutes? It's very unusual. It tells me that things didn't go as planned or the plan changed. because she's a sharp lady and she's a tough lady. So if there's someone in her house, she's not going to like whimper in the corner despite her physical limitations. And I think that has something to do with what happened here.

But 41 minutes, that's not a plan. That's things gone awry. You don't be hanging out in this house for 41 minutes. If it's a kidnap, you want to get in, you want to get out. In, out. Like, and to me, that's, that's another part of the mystery and the things that aren't fitting perfectly, which is why I don't think any of us are convinced 100% that this ransom letter is real, because not everything is necessarily

fitting. But I look at it like, well, I'm looking at it more like more likely than not. You know, like 50.001% is where I am on this ransom letter being legit. Yeah, I mean, the 41 minutes confuses me as well. And I've also wondered, you know, we've seen the blood spatter outside. You know, we've talked about, they've discussed DNA inside, makes me wonder what they found inside. I agree with you with Nancy Guthrie. The one way Savannah always explains her mother is strong. In her book on the Today Show, in speaking out, her mother is a strong woman. I'm sure that she did not go willingly or easily. You know, the other thing that, you know, look, I'm, I'm tending to go with you that this ransom is real. Whether or not she's alive, I don't know. But one of the

reasons I also suspect that, too, is there has been someone that send a fake ransom that's been arrested. And by the way, the new, you know, Derek fake ransom dude is now out on bail. But he was arrested, you know, and law enforcement is searching now for a vehicle that may be connected to the investigation, right? A Circle K gas station spokesperson told NBC, that they were contacted because of a vehicle of interest, they handed over their surveillance video. There's a lot happening behind the scenes. Clearly, we don't know about.

But do you think there's been so little information, understandably, police have to keep this close to their chest, but they're repeatedly saying no person of interest, no suspect, we don't know who this is. Do you think that they know a lot more right now than they are, letting the public know. Yeah, and they may actually have a person of interest, but they're not going to publicize that for two reasons. One, or suspect, one, to alert the suspect, and two,

for all the legal ramifications that kick in, right? If it's someone really close, which I don't think it is, but if it's someone really close, and then you name someone as a suspect, there's a shutdown, there's Miranda, there's all these things that sort of kick in when someone is a suspect and it also you know you know you want to keep everything open because I don't think they know for sure but I think they are following very specific evidence in a specific direction from what we're hearing and he's not saying everything that he knows he's saying things that um I think might help you know keep it bubbling help not people think about do I have any information that might be helpful right you you always want

to do that like because there are things that people may know that they don't even acknowledge or can realize are important to the investigation that may very well be right you're talking about a circle k well what are we you know we're pumping gas we didn't know anything well yeah you did So I think he's doing enough to feed the beast to keep the story in everyone's mind and the pictures and the information because it takes a while to break through to everybody. Because someone who's not like us, you know, on every bit of information being released might know something. And then eventually it seeps through to them. Oh, oh, yeah, I saw that. So I'll keep my ears open all weekend because I think something major will break at some.

point before that deadline. And, but that deadline becomes, I mean, that's looming large. Because that, that, I keep coming back to that human decision. And I think all of us personalize it. And obviously, you know, for not for everyone could pay millions of dollars, but like, you know, whatever your situation is, would you pay whatever it is, a year's salary, whatever it means to you if there was a chance of life. versus proof of life. It's one of those awful questions like in a would you rather game and this is real life for real people and it's horrific right now with a deadline on Monday and we're all watching.

And that's why I think they're working a lot harder. I think that's why we had a second reach out from Cameron to the people who, the author of that original note. It's interesting. Is the second note connected? Can they connect it? It's been described as being similar in some ways, but not described as a ransom note. Right?

So, and what was in that note that made them go back to the house? If that is even connected, right? Right. They get the note and then boom, get away from the house, everybody, because we've got to do stuff. They're climbing on the roof. What? Like all of these things, like none of it makes sense to us. But there's movement, there's activity, and there seems to be some level.

of developments and all of that is good news but the bad news is is that it's been what a bunch of days and the thing that struck me from savannah's um description of the medicine was that i'm sure the medicine is helps and is sort of prophylactic and making sure everything's working but she also said she's in constant pain suffering yes and i think the pain the medicine helps helps that. So if she is alive, each day she's not just being held. She's not just scared. She is suffering. And there was nothing about that in the note. And I'm wondering if that's a tell that it's not legit. If she's, you know, in constant pain and you didn't take the pain medication with you and you say she's fine, if you know that she's got these pain issues, you're going to say

she's fine and we have pain medicine for her, something like that, if it's at that point. So that, to me, that was another thing that I just paused for a moment and said, maybe it's not legit if they're not even acknowledging the status of her physical, ongoing, constant pain. Right. Well, the other thing I wonder, and I want your opinion on this, is how hard would it actually be to give proof of life? Because the family asked for two things in that first video.

They said, we want more contact. We're ready to talk and listen. And we want to know proof of life. And Saviana said, look, we live in an age where things can be manipulated, right? So give us proof of life. And proof of life, what could that be? Could that be a birthmark? Could that be something that, you know, Nancy knows that only her children know and they could relay this to them?

Could it be that simple? And, you know, the news director who received. the second random note, she did state there was no proof of life in that. So they're, so they're willing to do that second communication, right? But, but you're not willing to give any type of proof of life. That's also, you know, a concern. Right. And as you just laid out, there's a bunch of ways to do it without having to transmit a video or a, or a photograph, which could, you know, which could have sort of data in it that might, you know, not be good for the kidnapper. You know, I'm sending this picture, but there's going to be metadata in there that's

going to help help them track the source of this video, the source of this picture. Right, back in the old days, they would send a Polaroid with a newspaper, right? Polaroid with a newspaper. But you're right, that's sort of information, whether it's, you know, nicknames, name of a dog, or an address, or something that happened in 1986 that only you and mom know, right? Right. Yeah, I know. I know. So many questions, so many concerns. And as you point out, sort of this existential ultimate question, you know, your mother is gone being, you know, they want millions claim they'll give her back. What do you do? Or the amount of money that you're able to give, you know, yeah. And if it's not a kidnapping and if it's just like someone trolling Savannah Guthrie for money, right, someone that's really good at computers, just trolling her for money to put into. this Bitcoin address that they're never going to be able to collect, right? It's just like a, it's like a troll, right? If that's not it, then what happened? Was it, you know, a home invasion and then something happened to Nancy and rather than leave her there because they felt like she

was evidence. So they're just removing evidence from the scene. That's unfortunately very possible. Or it's some sort of, you know, vendetta inside someone. head and they're either, you know, responding to something in Nancy's life or perhaps something in Savannah's life. And it's inside their head and they're going to, you know, do this vendetta and it may be disconnected. So I think that is still in play. I think it's less likely, but it's still very possible because there are people who know how to manipulate the web. And some of some of the people who know how to do that have really bad senses of humor. And Could, you know, could be doing it just to, you know, just to get a little rise with, with him and his buddies.

Absolutely. As crazy as that is, I think it's possible. Absolutely possible. Anything's possible. Vinnie, thank you so much for your perspective and sharing with us, especially on a Saturday. I know this case is moving fast and we're grateful that you joined us here at Hidden 2 Crime. Where can we follow your coverage of this Nancy Guthrie disappearance? because you have been on it since day one.

Absolutely. Well, every night on court TV from 8 to 10, two hours of live true crime, the only guy on TV doing that. Nobody else. So two hours. And we are on this for two hours every night right now. And also on my YouTube channel,

Vinipoliton with the number one. Minneapolis is number one. There you go. The number one legal journalist in the nation. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Great to see you.

My best of the family. Thank you. We'll see you, Vinny. Bye. See you. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere.

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