Hidden True Crime - She Married an Inmate on Death Row… Then Watched Him Die | Tiana Broadnax Interview

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

In this deeply emotional and psychologically complex interview, Tiana Broadnax speaks out about marrying James Broadnax while he was on death row — and what it was like to witness his execution two weeks after the wedding. Tiana describes falling in love with a man convicted of double murder, fighting for his innocence, navigating the stigma of marrying a death row inmate, and ultimately watching the man she loved die at the hands of the state of Texas. Lauren Matthias challenges Tiana on the difficult questions many viewers may ask: Was this true love, trauma bonding, denial, redemption, or something more complicated? Together they explore grief, loyalty, faith, execution, innocence claims, public judgment, and the emotional reality of loving someone condemned by society. This is not just a story about crime — it is a story about human behavior, belief, morality, and the emotional complexity of love under impossible circumstances. Sponsors: IQBAR-Text HIDDEN to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping. Message and data rates may apply. Q30- For a FREE Q-Collar sleeve with your Q-Collar purchase, head to https://Q30.com/HIDDEN and use code HIDDEN. ASPCA Pet Insurance- Explore coverage at https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/HIDDEN About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Nearly two weeks ago, you Tiana Broadnecks, you stood inside a Texas death chamber and you watched your husband, James Broadnecks, die by lethal injection. Witnesses describe this as your voice. repeatedly staying, but other witnesses describe it as screaming. I love you. I love you in James' final moments before he was pronounced dead on April 30th, 2026. You also state the death was not peaceful. We're going to get into that. You say that you watched him suffer.

We'll talk about that. Now, to kind of explain to our listeners who are unaware of James' case, James Broadnex was executed for the 2008 murders of Christian music producers, Stephen Swan and Matthew Butler, who were robbed and shot outside a recording studio in Garland, Texas. James, your husband, was 19 years old at the time. Prosecutors, they do argue, he confessed repeatedly, telling reporters from jail, I pulled the trigger.

The victim's families, we'll get into this too because I don't know how they feel now, but they've long maintained the evidence was clear in the days leading up to James's execution. They called last minute efforts, which you were trying to help as a lie and a stall tactic. But I also want to explain that in the final weeks before James was executed, his case drew national attention because his cousin and co-defendant Demarius Cummings, who was serving life in prison, publicly claimed that it was him, not James, who was the shooter. In this Wharton's statement coming said, I shot Matthew Butler, Steve Swan.

I do not want James to be executed for shooting two people when I was the one who committed those acts. In June, it would be 18 years. So 17 years and some months, I've had time to think about my life. And most of it had to do. with my cousin and me. So a lot of times I thought about it

and it just wasn't ever sitting right with me. No. That he doing, that he's, we was in his crime together. But he's on the other side of things that I should have been with him getting a death penalty.

That should have been me. So I feel like this is an outlet to get it out to whoever listening, whoever gonna listen as far as we're out dealing with to tell the story

as it should be told that it was me you know, that I was a killer and bro just stood in my place because being young as I knew things I didn't know nothing but I told, I told bro to do what he did.

And so in my ignorance, it got him the death penalty. And even now it's hurting me because I, like I say, it's been weighing on me. It's just been weighing on me and I just think I need to get it out. Because it's destroying me. Even at this point, I'm on the behavior. management. You know, I'm still here messing up. You know, like I say, I think I've grown some, though. But I think I got to get it out. I had I already told him, look, just don't say nothing, bro. You know what I'm saying? I don't know I've already been through this, just don't

say nothing. You know what I'm saying? I told them the story. We was in a dope fan around them and all that, you know what I'm saying. So, but once I learned that they knew some of what they I'm like man, they didn't supposed to know a lot of what they knew. But only me and him knew what really happened. So when we went to Dallas County, they let us, like, we was, I think we was in medical or something. If I remember correctly, we was in medical. But we was right next to each other. We was talking to each other.

I'm like, look, bro, we don't have to tell them that you did it. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying that you did it because you ain't got no criminal history. You know what I'm saying? Bro, I've been down already. They're going to hang me, bro. If I come forth when I tell them I did this,

even if you don't get off, I'm going to hold you down, bro. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to make sure you walk right in real. So when I told him that, bro, bro, told me, like, man, look, bro, you know, I'm down for you, bro. I ain't tripping.

I'm going to hold you down, bro. I got you. So they just tell him you did. Tell him you was the shooter, bro. You're going to get out, you know what I'm saying? You ain't going to get off. You're going to do some time, but you're going to get out, bro. You know what I'm saying?

I've known people that don't did this right. I know that this ain't something that they can just throw you away for like, you're going to get some time, but you ain't. I'm really basically just telling me, just throwing it off on him just to take the case. James's case is also. brought to light controversy around the use of rap lyrics in criminal trials. James' attorneys argued that prosecutors used lyrics that he wrote as a teenager to portray him as violent and dangerous, even a psychopath I've been told.

Artists, including Travis Scott, young thug, killer Mike, have publicly supported efforts or supported efforts to halt James' execution. Clearly, that did not work. Arguing that rap lyrics are disproportionately used against young black defendants, in courtrooms across America. But today, though, this conversation with you, it's not about, it's not with a prosecutor or an active, you are an activist, you are a widow. But Tiana, only days ago, you lost your husband to the state of Texas and you say your fight is far from over.

In fact, I'm going to quote you, you state, I'm going to expose everyone. The fight did not end here. It got worse. You killed Mr. Broadnax, but you ain't killed Mrs. Broadnax. So I want to understand more about your fight, more about the evidence and your activism. I also want to point out something that is an interest to many that you met James after he was on death row and that you married him two weeks before his execution date through glass. unable to touch him. So I also want to understand more about your love story. And perhaps we can start from the beginning. Is that fair?

How you learned about James and his case about the murders. Yeah, I want to hear about how your relationship developed with James. He also said one of his last quotes was, I wish I could show them my soul so they could just see how. how sorry I am, I am very remorseful for everything that happened. Yeah. I also, I'm just, you've been a widow for two weeks now. I'm so sorry.

You witnessed his death. Can you take us back to meeting your husband, to meeting James and learning about his case? Yes. So I had finished my law degree. and soon after that, I decided to go and do my master's in international human rights law. And when it came to the point to discussing what the topic of our papers would be, I decided that I was going to do death penalty, racial disparities in the death penalty in Texas. Texas has always been predominantly known for the death penalty.

yes there are other states that do have the death penalty but you know Texas has always held that reputation on the death penalty and I had decided that you know we were always trained if you want to be the best advocate in something you need to know what the shoes of somebody that's already in there is about so it's so I decided to contact James and I wanted if I'm going to go to write a paper if I'm ever going to advocate for the death penalty, let me hear directly from somebody that's in there already. And I contacted him first and yeah, we just started speaking from there. What was supposed to be super platonic, super just, if anything, the most, a friendship talking month later turned out to be something even more beautiful in my eyes because

people are not going to see it as beautiful, but we then decided that there's more to this than just a friendship or just a, you know, a writing communication. So, yeah, so then that's how we decided that we wanted to pursue this and make this further into a relationship. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack, hydration, and coffee sponsor. IQ. Bar Protein Bars. mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious low sugar brain and body fuel that you need to win your day. And honestly, I have really love the bars. They're easy to grab on busy days, which is every day for me. They actually taste good. And they have plant protein fiber,

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How long were you writing him before you realized, both of you realize you, this was more than platonic? Three months. Three months later, we were just writing. It was just more of just us writing. We were both very clear with each other that we did not want a relationship. I said, look, this is not something I want. and he also said, look, I'm fighting for my life right now. A relationship is the last thing I need.

And yeah, three months later, of talking every single day, we would talk and talk and talk and talk and these conversations would last for a long time. So, yeah, three months later, we decided that, hold on a minute, there's more to this than we are, we're kind of, we were, if we might, you could call it, we was in denial for a long time. Sure. Because it's, like, we would both think that this is not realistic. This is not.

He's on death show. Yeah. For double homicide. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like it wasn't realistic, but I always still such into his case throughout the time. I always still wanted to know more about him. And obviously he wanted to know more about me and we had similar interests.

we had. It's interesting because if he wasn't on, if it hadn't been on death row, this would have been even a better relationship that what we have and had before he passed. So it was, it was interesting. It was very, very transparent conversations, good, bad, everything. They were all transparent. And yeah, it was more like we was in denial for a little bit and then eventually we was just like, who are we lying to? This is something more. And yeah, but we still took our time. We still didn't just jump straight into a relationship. It was more of we don't want to rush into something that is, he's always acknowledged, he's always acknowledged that this is not going to be easy for me.

He was always afraid that I won't be able to handle this relationship because of how intense it was in the case and how it was it, not only was it long distance, he's also on death road. So it was in your regular relationship where you can call anytime or you can, of FaceTime or, you know, we had to make use of what we had. And he was always afraid that, you know, we won't be able to, I won't be able to handle this. Which is true. There were times and I'm like, this is hard. And even for him, this is hard. So, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't what people think that, oh, I opened my eyes, wrote to him and boom, I just jumped into a straight relationship with him. We took a lot of precautions. We had a lot of conversations. We had to be

very, very realistic about what we were deciding to do, which was being a relationship. Sometimes no matter how much you like somebody or you really, really see a future with them, you have to sit down and both talk. Is there something that we both want to do? Because in our situation, it was never going to be easy. So, yeah. Yeah, what was it that made you fall in love with James in particular? There was many things. One of the biggest things was him as a person. And people, it's crazy because right now I feel like whatever I say about James, everyone's going to have a butt, but he's on their throw. It was him as a human being. No butts here. I want to know as a human being what made you fall in love with him. It was him as a person. It was his his intellect, his beliefs, his, the way he would handle stuff. He was such. a great believer in self-healing and breaking generational curses, breaking bad habits, breaking toxic

behaviours that you build from previous relationships or from childhood. It was him as a person. You know, people say, oh, you know, he played game. You know when somebody's playing game and you know when somebody's being truly genuine. And it was just the conversations we had, they were super transparent whether it be good, bad. We had that agreement from the beginning. You speak as it is. If I make you mad, you tell me. If you resent me, you tell me. If, you know, it was the way the communication was the strongest I've ever seen in my life. You know, it was never materialistic. It was never, you know, fake or just like a little la-la-land thing. It was very, it was deep conversations. you could talk to him about everything and anything and he always had solutions. He was like,

he was like my therapist at times, honestly. And I was for him as well. So that was the best thing was that you could be yourself with him and he would never judge you. He would never ever judge you. He always, and he was, I always used to say he was a soccer for love. He loved people. He was a big romantic, like, we'll go into it more, but I will be honest with you, when people say, if a man wants to, he would, James was the example of that. If he wanted to, he overcompensated for the things that he couldn't do that he would have done in that outside for me. Yeah. So, and that was something big. To explain it as he was, you know, a bit of a therapist for you and you for him and in healing generational trauma.

It sounds like maybe both of you helped each other heal a little bit. Is that certainly? Yes, but we never dwelled on the past because, you know, there are times where you sit there and you just keep on talking about what happened to you in the past and you want to cry together and just dwell in it. No, it was let's speak about what happened to us in the past once and now let's move on and make changes in this relationship. that do not reflect on our past behaviors and our past traits and toxic behaviors that we would

have built from childhood or relationship. So we was very more focused on how to be the best version for each other, to learn each other, to just be the best people for each other. And I was saying this to somebody, I was like, by the point, we had come to a point in that, there was never an argument. And if there was a disagreement, we could sit down. without having to argue or to throw a tantrum and just speak about it or there was always boundaries were always respected it was the communication we had to overcompensate with the

communication because there was never any ability to be able to spend time together or go on a date or something so communicate so we always was very aware that in order for this relationship to work communication has to be so open that there is no space for miscommunication or for arguing for no reason but then also we was aware time is of limit so it was like is it really worth arguing about this or is it really worth having a conversation about this because we don't know how long we have together and I'll be honest with you it made the materialistic stuff of life and and the in this this very myth like the life that we live outside mean worthless to us because time became more valuable for us. Literally. Like you cherished

one another. Yes. Yes. And it was always before the phone calls ended, I love you. No matter how you felt about me or I felt about you, you always ended conversations with I love you. Patience became a thing. And obviously we were both in Christ. So for up for James, it was super important that the fruits of the spirit were implemented in our relationship. And yeah, James was very much a man of wisdom, a man of sense and a man that you go to for advice. You go, I could, one thing about it is, I could speak to James about anything and he would still love me, still appreciate me, give me the best advice. James was always a loving person. Whoever met James, James has spoken to, hundreds of people before me, not romantically necessarily, but in general, and I've spoken to

a lot of these people and these people have nothing bad to say about him. So, yeah, it was just a shame that the death row part put a dark light on him. Yeah. Yeah. And would he talk to you about his past regrets? He was young when this robbery and double homicide happened. Would he talk to you about that or any regrets or did you focus on the moment and the now and moving forward? No, we, so we couldn't discuss the case properly because you have to remember every call and text is subject to, is recorded, subject to monitoring or every message, every email is consistently gone through. So we would never speak about the case predominantly, but does he have regrets? A hundred percent. I've actually put up a video on TikTok about how he says he had to repent,

he had to regret for some of the decisions he's made. And I will be honest with you, James regretted Evar following his cousin that day. You know, he was just like, I wish I could have, pardon me, I wish I could have, you know, I wish I was never involved in this. That's what he would say. I wish I had nothing to do with this. And I wish, you know, I wish I made better decisions than deciding to go into something that I had no business being in.

So he, but he's always, we've always known that he will go into this more, but we've always known he wasn't the one that did it. He, his cousin did it. So it's, he's always regretted it. Because obviously, us being together for him was like, wow, this is what I could have, he would say this to me, imagine if I could have had this, but on the outside. You know, he had ambitions, he was super smart, he was into quantum physics, he was into science, he was into science, he was into architecture. So for him, as he got older, he came to realize, like,

one dumb decision with following my cousin to something that he had, you know, the cousin had planned and the cousin had orchestrated this, cost him his life. And he had so much future ahead of him. Let me actually, you brought up his cousin,

his co-defendant, Demarius, who's serving life behind bars. Let me read what Demarius Cummings wrote in a recent confession before James was executed. Mario states, I have always maintained that James was the one who shot Mr. Swan and Mr. Butler, but the fact that James received a death sentence for these crimes

while I was the one who shot the victims has been weighing on my conscience, particularly as I have become more spiritual during my years in prison. My hope is that James will not be executed for committing acts that he did not do. I want to clear my conscience and do not want James to be executed for shooting two people

when I was the one who committed those acts. So you brought up his cousin. I just wanted to share what his cousin had stated. When you first wrote James, you mentioned that you were wanting, you know, you were

wanting to understand human rights. What did you know about the case going into writing James? Like, why did you pick James? Dr. John, my co-host, was a football player throughout college. And from that experience, we've both had long discussions, actually, about how to protect our child's body and brain if and when they play sports. Well, fast forward to today, and our child takes after his dad and has some athletic ability. And now that he's playing soccer competitively, we've definitely started thinking more.

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and simple to incorporate into sports he already loves. And at his young age, as his brain is developing, cue caller is so reassuring. So when you are getting your family ready for the next season, think helmet, mouthguard, and Q caller. Head to Q30.com slash hidden and use code hidden for a free sleeve with your order. Once again, that's Q30.com slash hidden for a free sleeve available in 15 colors with your order. So before I had messaged him, I had researched his case. I had researched his case. And funny enough, actually, we don't have much access to his case from being in the UK when

locations in the UK because when I came to the US I saw even more articles, even more stuff. I saw those interviews. I saw those interviews. I saw everything that I had read into it. But yet still, I'm that kind of person. So when I was going to do my, when I was doing my law degree, we were always taught never take somebody's confession as Bible. Because not anybody gets up, it's not normal for somebody to just get up and freely confess. Because James confessed early on when he, right? Is that what you're referring to? Yeah, the false confession in interviews, because they are false.

From jail, James Broadnecks and Demerius Dwight Cummings talk about what happened last week when they killed Matthew Butler and Stephen Swan outside of Garland recording studio. The chopper was too big to rob somebody with, so we had one and got the piss. The two trading an AK-47 for a handgun before taking the dart from South Dallas to Garland. I decided to go hit a lick, you know what I'm saying? And one of the best spots is going, because that's why all the rich white folks stayed. You know what I'm saying? So, I got caught him off a shillip.

She didn't pop this, borg. Without as much as a blink, James Broadnecks talks about how he took two lives. Blank out, you know what I'm saying, and shot him. Like, stumbled back, shot the other, the driver. He hit the ground, you know what I'm saying? But he like leaned up like he was trying to get back up. So I shot him in the head. Then his home boy, I shot his again, you know what I'm saying?

But he was still trying to run off the shit. But I knew he was going to die anyway, but just to make sure, pop, shot his, like, you know what I'm saying, twice in the head or whatever. Me and my Kenfo's ran their pockets. You know what I'm saying? He jumped in driver's seat. I jumped on past the side and we dipped out. How much money did you guys get?

He had $2 in his wallet, you know what I'm saying. Describing his life as, quote, Hell, Broadneck says he has nothing to live for. I don't want life. You don't want life? Pick one. If they don't, I will. How do you feel today, Mr. Cummings?

I feel real bad, you know. I feel that was wrong when we did, you know. I know how their family felt to feel about it, you know what I'm saying. So how do you feel now? I'm saying, I kind of regret what I did, but. She can't change. Ain't no you was crying, though. What do you want them to know about you?

I want them to know I didn't kill nobody. I didn't kill her husband or whatever. You know what I'm saying? But you do admit you contributed to it. Yeah, I contribute to it. But I didn't kill them, though. You're sorry it happens, sir? Yeah, so.

And so we was always taught in school, in law school, if somebody gets up and just freely confesses, you never take that as evidence, like, that's Bible. And when I saw those interviews, I'm like, especially in national TV, there's something wrong with this. Because he doesn't his confession was with reporters, right? Five reporters, yes, it was with five reporters. And it's like, and you're just sitting there thinking, you're 19, you look dishevelled, your hair's all over the place, you're rapping in the middle of these these interviews you're rapping Lil Wayne your one in like your emotion you just look completely disoriented and you're saying some stuff

this doesn't make sense this just this interview does not make sense right to me it was never oh wow you must have done it because you're coming no no no it was more of like what happened for him to get to this point. Why are you saying all these stuff so freely? Why are you, why are you, in a way at the time, why are you seeing this? And then it came to a point where I met James.

And months later, I got access, I was given access to the transcripts. And then I'm like, the transcripts of the trial. The absolute. complete transcripts. And I'm going through these transcripts and I'm like, hold on a minute, DNA, James Bronnox excluded from the weapon, James Bronnox excluded from the victim's bodies, James Brownax excluded from here, from there. I'm like, huh? There's no DNA of James is on the

DNA anywhere of him. Or the murder weapon. Or the murder weapon. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. It had Damaris's DNA all over the weapon. It had Demaris's DNA on one of the victims' backpockets. And I'm like, hold on a minute. And there was more evidence that was showing where obviously DeMarius admitted to intention. Demaris admitted to bringing the weapon himself. So it was like, and I'm like, this does this, this confession. in other words in you know this confession that everyone keeps saying james confessed in interviews does not match to what i'm seeing here um even like the the therapist that was on the stand talking about james he had never interviewed james directly he used statistics and academic books to determine that james was a psychopath. And there was like so many other things, the jury, when I saw the voir dire of,

or the voir dire that the people call it, of the jury questioning. Yeah. Yeah, the jury selection. And there was like, you know, the questioning and the way they selected the jury, I even made a little presentation to make it sense to myself. Like, it does not make sense. So they would, yeah. So it was like, Why? And then I'm... James's jury selection is part of the controversy. The critics like you or accurate claim that it was racially, it was prejudice. Is that accurate?

That was accurate, yes. Black jurors were not selected. James is Black. Is that what you're referring to? Is that what you believe to? Yes. Yes. So the voir dire is, when they question jurors to select them for the trial. And prosecution will have a, in this case, they said that they didn't, so they will question you, are you for or against the death penalty? They've got like a questionnaire they have to complete the jury.

And then the prosecution predominantly will compare everybody's, they have like a standard that they want of type of jury in the jury pool. and then they will select these people. So then they will say, for example, there was a, I can't remember about the top of my head, but they said, anybody that puts a, selects a certain number from one to ten, if they are four or against the death penalty, anything below a certain, I can't remember what it was, the number. For some reason, seven comes up to my mind.

They said that in anyone who select seven or below, they won't be in the jury. In our case, I've seen, I wish I had that my laptop with me, there was one juror, an African-American, that selected that number. They struck her off. But then there was a white juror that selected that number and they put her in the jury. Wow. That's interesting. So there was somebody that said there was a juror that was struck off because she couldn't look at James in the eyes.

Because she came out to be anxious or nervous and she was questioned, does James remind you of does he look like he could be your son? And she was told, look at his face and he couldn't. But then we had a similar case with another white juror, but they were put in the jury. So it was, so it was interesting. And this is the thing what frustrates me is. They really, I got to ask, they really did ask one juror, can you not look at him because he looks like your son? Is that really?

Yes, I've got, I've got all the, I got the transcript. So it is fascinating, especially if it comes to racial. prejudice. Sorry, go ahead. I do not know that kind of shock. So it's like they had a standard of if the person can't look at James in the eyes and if they looked anxious, they would be struck off. But there are evidence of some of that juror pool. They was anxious to look at James.

So it's like they did not match. And then obviously there was the, there was the, the words that were used. animal from animal planet predator new breed um to the point of people forget that dehumanizing language dehumanizing and i'll be honest with you you have a jury of white people you have a 19 year old black boy they've used rap lyrics against him they've called him a new breed they've called him They've even tried to claim that he was in a gang, which he was never in a gang. He's never been in a gang. Demarius was in a gang.

James has never been in a gang. And you're saying this to a pool of white jurors. And not only that, because I have to be honest, because obviously this case is now closed, right? The prosecutor was African American. So the best person to know how to describe an. African-American boy that's a defendant would be an African-American prosecutor. And it won't look racial because how can he be racist to his own race? That's true. That's true. Yeah. And the one juror that they added, the African-American,

people forget to realize that he was in two capital murder cases prior to James's case. they just never went to the death penalty, death penalty phase. And they put him as the foreman draw up. And bear in mind, when they struck him off originally, they struck him off because he said he was against the death penalty. Then when the judge said, hey, hold on, this is about to be a big case, because this is purely 12 white people sitting at the jury, we need at least one African American.

He then changed his tone. said, well, my wife is a minister in a church and she is for the death penalty, so I'm following her. I've got highlights of this. Wow. So his mind was made up, in other words. So he was then put back in because originally he said he was against the death penalty, hence why he was struck off originally to start with. But then all of a sudden he gets selected and then made the former juror of this jury poll. So we still have 11 white jurors and one African-American and who randomly changes his mind that he is now for the death penalty. Because his minister wife, in other words, it was a moral obligation to follow his minister

wife perhaps? I'm guessing so. So how did we change our minds when it was meant to be a very strict time, a very strict standard of who we want on that jewelry poll? Why did things have to be changed? And I always kept saying, if somebody is so guilty, you don't need to manipulate a court case, a trial. It's very, you've got the evidence, right? You said you have the evidence. And when we spoke to the

juror who then came out and said, look, we made a mistake. If we had seen the proper evidence, we wouldn't have given him the death penalty. She had told me, when she came with me to visit James, she had visited James. Whoa. Wait, so a juror went with you to visit James. James, one of the jurors who convicted him. Yeah. That's fascinating. So, okay, keep going. So, and she turned around to me and she said, look, they literally took us in a room and they said to us, we've got everything. Just give them the death penalty. That's what she said happened. And that's what she said happened. They weren't allowed to take notes. They weren't allowed to discuss it. They weren't allowed to watch TV. They just replayed that interview video consistently,

consistently. When you're not allowed to take note, and she said, once we saw it's on the Dr. Phil show when she speaks about it. And once they saw that interview rant, they couldn't overlook it. So even when the DNA was shown and everything was shown, obviously you're not allowed to take no notes to go back to the notes. All they kept thinking about was this interview. Lily Bell back there genuinely thinks that she's part of the production team.

If a camera turns on, she appears. If someone's emotional, she somehow knows before the rest of us do. She's six now, but occasionally she still gets a bit of that chaotic energy that keeps life interesting. A quick message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. And honestly, if you've ever had a pet, you know things can go sideways fast. Lily had a really scary accident with a John Deere as a puppy. And over the years, there have been unexpected vet visits when she's been sick or injured. And that is why having pet insurance has been such a relief.

The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance helps take some of the. financial stress out of those surprise moments so you can focus on getting your pet the care they need. The program offers customizable accident and illness plans, and when you enroll, you could also get a $25 Amazon gift card. To explore coverage, visit ASPCApetinsurance.com slash hidden. That's ASPCAPetinsurance.com slash hidden. Eligibility restrictions apply. Visit ASPCApetinsurance.com slash Amazon terms for more info. They also dismissed the fact that he was high on PCP. I have evidence that shows that. They dismissed the fact that he had been, so there was lies being spread that the interviews happened four days after the arrest. That's a lie. James was booked in at 4 a.m. in Dallas County Jail.

and he was actually, they wanted to interview him in that state. And he said, no, I need a lawyer. If anything, give me a psych lawyer because I'm high and I'm seeing stuff come out of the walls. I'm seeing things. So four hours later, at eight o'clock in the morning, between eight and 12, he was faced before five different channels. How did those interviewers get there so fast? It's incredible. So in other words, he asked, and I did, I did read this. You know, he asked for an attorney, admitted that he was on substances, and then went outside to press. Is that right? Which then stated that he killed, killed the victim.

The question is, there's so many questions in this. How did the interviewers get there so fast within four hours? It was four o'clock in the morning, and I'm sure back in 2008, 2009, they definitely didn't have the technology to find out or how the heck did they find out that they got james bronax in there um they wanted to interview and they couldn't interrogate him without a lawyer so what did they do they put him in front of five different channels in that mental state he told them he was suicidal they didn't put him into suicide watch until after the interviews because he was making suicidal comments and that's when he became a liability to dallas county jail because they knew that

if they don't put him suicide watch he can be liable for that they can be liable for that they can be liable for lack of duty of care to him. So there were so many strategies in there that it cannot be denied in order to get James to say things that was not true. And not only that, his cousin had convinced him, you take the blame because I've been in and out of jail since I was a young boy. You have no record, no criminal record.

You only have a possession of marijuana. And if I admit that I did it, I'm getting automatically. the death penalty based on my previous history, but when they do the circumstantial evidence on James, on why he shouldn't have the death penalty, it comes out that he has a clean record. But yet, not only is he high, not only is he being delusional because of the PCP symptoms and signs, he then also is becoming loyal to his cousin. Yeah. How are you going to make something believable in the delusion that you've done?

something you haven't so it's if people really need to look into that false confession because it is a false confession more than him just saying things that he said in the spur of being high in PCP being delusional which he also there's reports of him before they put him into the into the suicide watch that he was talking about suicide and he was talking about seeing stuff and hearing stuff and paranoia and all that stuff and being like very with his backup and there is evidence. And then not only that, he's now being loyal to his cousin. He didn't want to be questioned by the police. He told him, I need a lawyer. So the only best way to get him to say stuff is put him in front of cameras. And also when the CEO, the correctional officer went to take him to the to the interviews,

she was actually told that it was a general visit. She didn't know that she was taking James to in front of interviewers. Wow. So James was put in a room by himself for four hours. Whilst he's screaming and telling them, I'm seeing stuff. And he actually cursed, but obviously,

I'm not going to say that. He was telling them, look, I'm seeing stuff, I'm seeing stuff. They left him in there for four hours, and then they put him in front of five different channels. Wow. You know, I see a lot of concerns about this case.

And I'm also have so much empathy. for you. And I want to actually keep, I'm going to pause for a little bit because I said, let's go in order. And I want to get to you moving, choosing to move to Texas, choosing to move to the United States, you know, because of James. First, I do want to play devil's advocate for a second. I talk to you about this, because I know that people think this. You know, there are two dead victims, both in their 20s, promising Christian music producers who were wrong. robbed and murdered that day. Teresa Butler is Matthew Butler's mother. Matthew was one of those victims. And as you and others, including some high-profile celebrities, fought to keep James from being executed, Teresa wrote on social media, this so-called confession from Cummings

is just a stall tactic by Broadnex's desperate defense team. It's all a lie. I, you know, I want to humanize James. In fact, you've done a really good job humanizing James because I actually have empathy for James. I have empathy for you. There are two victims that are dead. How do you sort of, how do you balance that or find compassion and humanize everyone in the situation? So I think that's a question, many listeners might have.

First of all, with that comment, it's been deleted, but I have a screenshot of it, where she said that the AG told her it was a stall tactic. So it was coming from her, it was from the AG that told her that it was a store tactic. She says, I've spoken to the AG's office, and they have told me it's a store tactic. And she goes off to blame the news media as liberals. So and then obviously that got changed and then the comment, but I've got screenshots. One thing about me is I'm always taking, I was investigating this from all sides. Now to go to balancing gear, send them my way.

I'll take it. I will do. Just to let you know also, when it came to balancing it, one thing that I've always been vocal about is I hate the fact and I have to use hate very, very loosely because I hate the fact. that two lives were lost in the midst of this incident. It should have never happened. James also hated it. Who wants to ever see somebody pass away? Look, I've now just watched my husband get killed. It's not easy and I don't undermine the pain and the grief they're going through because I'm now grieving my husband's death. I hate it. James hated it that one, he never won

that to ever happen and two he hated that he was even involved in it because nobody ever once you know even though he did not do it physically he hates that it happened yeah and i hate it too because i would you have to remember our lives could have been different as well and their lives could have been different and also you know about this speaking to matthew butler's daughter and hearing the stories about her dad. I'm like, your dad sounds like a fantastic man. And I don't know much about Stephen Swan, because I've never, ever been in contact with the Swan family. And I'm sure Stephen Swan would have been a great man, you know. And I agree for them. James and I have prayed for them. And we just wished none of it happened. I with me, if it's up to me, I wish I can do everything.

The butlers and the Swans have their sons and I have my husband. And life. would have been fantastic. But I'm sorry. Like I will apologize on James' behalf as well, that that happened in his presence, but James didn't do it. And one thing about me is I will not fight for something if I didn't believe in it. Everybody that knows me knows. I don't fight for things unless I believe in it. And if I'm believing in it, trust me, I know that my husband did not pull that trigger. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. appreciate your perspective. You are a voice, your activism and honestly speaking up about James, your relationship with him, it's, I think, allowing a lot of people understanding and a lot

of humanizing. So thank you for answering my questions and talking about this so candidly. I know that there was a time. I want to know about the time you chose to then move to the United States for James. And I also want to point this out too because I know that a lot of listeners and people think this and I'm sure you've heard this. In fact, you even said there's always a butt, you know, I want this to be a place where you can share things

and help us to understand. There is a stereotype of women who write inmates in prison. You know about this stereotype. You have been stereotyped. That women will write inmates and fall in love with inmates and criminals and murderers behind bars, and that high-profile murderers often soon get letters from women wanting to stay in touch.

Can you tackle this stereotype a little bit and share your thoughts and maybe even being labeled this and maybe some perspective for all of us? Okay, so as maybe people say you're a hypocrite, What I suggest people to go on there and message these men, women, for dating purposes, no. Rightoprison.com is not a dating app. It is a place to connect with them. If you want to speak to these men or these women, because there are females in prison as well, then do so. However, you know, if people said to me, oh, she's going to go move on to the next criminal,

way before James ever passed away, before we even had an execution date, I had a correction officer and said to me, you know, would you do this again? And I said with my husband, yes, but I would never, if my husband, once my husband leaves out of there, whether it be physically or spiritually, I'm never coming back to here again. I don't want to ever be in contact with another. I will fight for people collectively. I'll be an activist against the death penalty 100%. But you will never see me in that visitation room again. It's not easy. It comes with its own responsibilities to be with somebody in prison, but also not everybody gets a story like mine and James. Right. And you have to be wise.

You have to know what you'll get in yourself into because there's no right or wrong answer. to this but would I say I'm going to go back never again will you see me in a in an American prison unless it is to go collectively and to go see these prisons and advocate for them but I am not I'm that there will never be another inmate for me so people might say you're a hypocrite no it's because James and I was a different case I never went into it to be in a relationship with James it so happened to be months later but how do I put this? I feel like I'm not articulating this correctly. I just feel like would I suggest this? No. If you're going to speak to an inmate,

have wisdom and know what you're doing and be realistic with yourself. With James, when him and I first started speaking, I was very straight to the point. I said, listen, I don't have time for the nice compliments and this and that. Let's just be real. That's all I need is realness from you. I don't have time to tell me if I'm pretty or I don't care about that. It's about let's be friends, if anything. And that's how he was. But it's interesting because James and I spoke about it and we said, what if our child ends up speaking to a guy in prison? And we discussed this. And people don't realize we discuss all these stuff. Interesting. What is interesting. And James was like, look, I wouldn't advise it. I will tell her, look, I don't want you to be speaking to this person.

But I can't stop you. And if you still put your foot on you want to do it, we would just have to advise you through along the way. But we will tell you, because your mother and I did it, it doesn't mean that you should go and do it and that it's okay. Because you won't get it. It's not often you get a case like mine and your mothers. So James and I would never, would have never advised it. But if, you know, kids are kids, you know when your kids grow up and they want to make their own choices and you can't stop them,

you're just like, I'm not going to stop you then if you still want to go ahead with it. But this is what's going to come with it. And tell me if you're willing to go ahead with that. Tell me if you're willing to be on the phone, consistently speak to this person on the phone. It's a responsibility, visitations, all of that stuff.

And that's why James was very strict about my daughter going to visit him because she never did because he did not want that to be normal for my daughter people don't realize when you go you become so institutionalized even as a wife because it's funny because you have to go through his metal detectors and you have to raise your arms up in this metal machine and i went into the airport and automatically i did the rain and she and the lady at the tSA it was like no no no no, you can leave your arms down. Because people think it's only these men that become, or these women in prison that become instituted.

No, we become institutionalized too. I used to say to James, he used to say to me, you are grieving this as though you are on death and you have an execution date. And I used to say to him, you're in there physically, I'm on death row mentally. Yeah. Well said.

And that's why. So again, would I, sorry, because I feel like I'm longing this out a little bit, but would I advise it? No, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't advise it. I would never encourage it.

James and I was very, very big about not glamorizing prison relationships. Yeah. Yeah, and you haven't had a prison relationship before then? No. And you haven't, yeah, you don't plan to have one after right now. No, no, no, no. No, no.

Yeah. So you start falling in love with James. He's on death row. I would call that a major conflict and a relationship that's developing. When do you come to the United States and relocate? Six months later. I didn't relocate. What was, did you want to fight his execution?

Did you want to be closer to him? Meet him. What were your reasons? It was. It's an overseas relocation. I mean, this hits a big deal. You relocated your institution. entire life for someone. So for me, it was, it was many reasons. One, I needed to see who I've

decided to be in a relationship with. I'm not just going to be in a relationship with somebody I'm messaging and calling with. That's not, you know, it's not realistic. Two, it was, I need to go back 36 years. Sorry, he was 35. I need to go back 35 years and find out who you really was. What are people that grew up with you saying about you, who was James before I met him in prison? Wow. Because as you, so this is what I'm saying. I didn't go blindly in this. James was very, James knew about this. And I said, I'm going to go back to Arkansas. I'm going to go back to Texacana. I am going to travel those states, get in that rental car and travel those states and meet people. I met shopkeepers, storekeepers, sorry, because we call it shopkeepers. I met storekeepers. I met neighbors.

I met childhood friends. I met family members. I was going to funerals. I had no business going into, but there was his family there. I wanted to see what are other people saying about James Braunax? Because, you know, even if you're on the outside, somebody will tell you the best things about you. Of course, everybody will when they meet you. You know, first impression is always important. Absolutely. Absolutely. But for me, it was, okay, I hear you. You're consistent with your, your conversations, your actions and everything. But now I want to see what are other people saying because they're not there with you. What are people saying about you? Who was you before I make you? Was you this violent person, psychopath that everybody keeps talking about?

And I met his stepdad's. I got in contact with stepdad's. I got in contact with so many people from different walks of life. And what was crazy is every single mouth said, James has never, was never a violent kid. He was always timid because he was being abused. He was always in his skateboard or in his bike and he was always respectful. He was just a, he was just a, little boy who would play it in the, you know, in the outside with the neighbor kids. But everybody, honestly, even the storekeeper who hadn't seen James, he was 10, 11 years old, said to me, this kid was never a violent kid. We were all shocked to hear about what they were accusing him of because that was not his character.

That says a lot. It's not a day that I haven't thought about the circumstances that he, led to me being on death row. James, he's my cousin. We grew up together when we were younger. We actually grew up more like siblings. He was a staple of the house. He always had jokes, you know, want to have fun.

He was goofy. He's just really upbeat. I'm the big sister, but I was always a little big sister. He'll say that. He'll, what's up, little big sis? This is me. This is James. and my sister Corinne and this is James in one of his elementary school pictures.

He's definitely protective. He's definitely somebody you could depend on. If you needed somebody to be there, you could definitely depend on James to be there for sure. He was very protective. He was and it's so crazy because to say he was going through so much. He never really showed it. I want to put point something out too. My husband, Dr. John, is actually a clinical and forensic psychologist. In other words, he assesses criminals for risk. And one thing that is unique in forensic evaluations are what are called collateral interviews, meaning for a proper evaluation, you go and you interview numerous people in the person's life, family, exes, relationships. And,

And that's a big part of assessing risk. I just want to point out are these collateral interviews for an evaluation. So it's almost as if you did that part, you went and you found people in his life to talk to them, to get to know him to come closer to him. That's really interesting. And they all said he was kind and warm and not violent. And one of the most common things that everybody said was, we wish we adopted him to make sure we took care of him because of how badly he was raised. I'm not sure I knew about the pain, but in regards of him not having a mother around, I knew about that.

I never seen Audrey with James. I never heard James talk about him. I can probably count on one hand the amount of times that we saw her. Around the age of maybe two, Mama, relocated us with my great-hunt, who I knew as my grandmother growing up, Beatt East. And she lived in Hope, Arkansas. And Hope was really country, a lot of dirt. It was hardly any grass. We didn't have any toys.

The only person that had any toys was my brother Aaron. was the favorite. She used to tell Aaron, those ain't even your real brothers and sisters. And she didn't like James because he was too white. She was real tough on James. Due to the fact that he was biracial, you know, she's, I mean, she, he would have to stay in his room long periods of times, like more than a week, sometimes two weeks. Like, the only way James were eat is if me and my brother was sneaking food out the window. We did witness her beating James on multiple occasions. This started between the ages of six and seven.

It was like very abusive verbally, physically. This one day, she slapped me across my face, grabbed me by my shirt, and just started dragging me. From the street, through this gravel brick yard. She takes me into the bathroom. She runs a cold bath. She pour a bleach in it and makes me sit in it. The wounds that were on my foot just immediately start burning.

I tried to get out. She forced me in it and made me sit down in it. And it's just like, man, it was very, very painful. Mid-June, probably 105, 106 degrees. When I pulled up in my mother's yard from work, James was sitting on the porch. He was just sweating. Sweating. crying, tears and sweat, tears and sweat.

So when I went to him, I walked up on the porch as to James was wrong. He said, it's Big Mama. He said, Big Mama won't even let me in the house to get anything to drink. So imagine being in a place where you're not accepted to begin with. And not only not being accepted,

but you're also not loved. Where you feel like the love should come from, come from you don't have love there you don't have love anywhere and you're just existing later on and come to find out that his brother was molesting him he told my big mama about it you know he was showing her that he had blood in his underwear and she was upset about it because James's older brother could do no wrong in her eyes you know he was like the golden child he was so hurt he was so He didn't have a mama that care. He never knew his dad. His grandmother hated him. His own brother

molested him. People that's supposed to protect you, provide for you, guide you, you know, into the right path. He never had that. James had ambition. He always wanted to be an architect. And he was very smart. And he, when I say he was, it's because he's passed now, because he was still smart as an adult. James had so much potential. And people used to say how the heck are you here? Like how are you on death row? It doesn't make sense when people met him and it was and this is what annoys me so much because even with all due respect to the victims, James wanted to meet their families. He was insisting I what he was supposed to actually meet with the daughter but victim support made it difficult and and it was a situation where like

it was if you met James you would be like how are you in? in there and it's not just coming from me it was coming from everybody else there were stories about how all james needed was structure and he james i was always told james was very clean james was very well like he knew how to cook he knew how to clean he knew how to do everything it was just the fact that he wasn't being raised correctly he had an unstable home he moved over 17 times in a space of a year well so can you understand when I say that they found a vulnerable boy that did not have no family support, that had nothing, and that was suicidal. And how will you say this? They abused it. I can understand that.

Because there was nobody there to protect him, but a public defender. Yeah. You were finally able to visit James, but never touch him. Is that right? You cannot touch someone that's on death row. How did you finally meet him? And when I say meet between glass, right? There was glass dividing you both? Yes. So when you walk through the, there's a lot of glass that you can see through the visitation.

And I'll be honest with you, as soon as I walked, there's like a whole, like a corridor with glass and you can see through into the visitation area. but you can see you can see through and i remember the first time we saw each other we locked eyes and i recognized him straight away um and i remember just sitting there we were just both sitting there smiling um and i'm like oh my god we're officially meeting um and he was so respectful as soon as he was sitting down and as soon as i got to his um his location look i forgot what they're called i call it a cage we call it a cage as soon as i got to his cage he stood up straight away and did he know what you look like at that moment or yeah yeah yeah he had obviously

he stood up straight away um to show respect and he didn't sit down until i first sat down and he was super respectful he was actually very nervous i remember he was sweating um he was super super nervous he didn't he didn't know what to say, I don't know what to say, not because we don't have nothing to say because we, we both knew we could talk for day and night together, we could spend hours together, never run out of things to say, but it was just that moment of nervousness. And yeah, and then after that, we got comfort, obviously, we very quickly realized that this wasn't just a communication like talk, you know, there's a difference between when you're texting and you're calling on the phone 24-7

compared to when you actually meet the person. Absolutely. two differences and we used to worry before I met him like what if we don't what if our energies our presence to each other does not match and we was we was like if it doesn't it doesn't we tried you know and no when we met each other it even strengthened that bond because we were like it was like going to see my best friend of 20 years it was just a beautiful moment we were laughing um you know it was like oh my god we're seeing each other and and it was bittersweet because i'm like oh my goodness i wish we could just walk to the park or do normal stuff because of how well we got along um

and it was exciting because i got to see him two two days later and um yeah we was just it was just fun it was always fun um the correctional officers can vouch and say we always just laughed we teased each other we it was like we was in our own little world we would forget that we was even in a prison sometimes we would forget that the glass was in the middle and I would reach to try and grab food from his thing because we would eat food together and my hand would obviously bump into the glass like it was so natural it was such a natural relationship of friendship that we had because we always said friendship before relationship because the foundation of a friendship is what keeps our relationship going. And honestly, it was, we made use of what we had, even like,

we can't have date nights, we can't have lunches, we can't. So we would get the food and it sounds sad, but we would get the food and pretend it's a date night. You know, it's a, it's a lunch date. And he would go above and beyond to make it as normal as it could be. Yeah, we was, it was, It was, yeah. I, I. Tell me about the proposal. The proposal. The proposal.

The proposal came. It was a Saturday evening. What was it? It was a Saturday evening visit. And on Saturdays, you get evening visits. So I usually picked the last one, which was 745 to 945. Because that was the only time we would ever be able to speak to each other past 8 o'clock.

Because at 8 o'clock, they stopped the first 8 o'clock. they stopped the phones for death row inmates. And I went to see him. You're probably questioning the phone times, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't even know if I'm questioning. I just want to know. So I'm sure, look, I want to say this.

I'm honored that you're doing this longer form interview. I know that you do a lot of interviews and people come on and they were all curious. But I simply just want to know. there's no buts behind my eyes. I will ask you anything I am wondering. Yeah. I simply want to understand and hear your story. So death row inmates don't get general population phone times.

They only get 2pm to 8 p.m. They only get 6 hours a day on the phone. So obviously for us to stay past 8 o'clock, which is crazy, was such a special thing. Because oh my God, we could see, we could be with each other. which is crazy because in a normal world you could be with your partner 24 hours you know and but we cherished that moment so much we would get excited like oh my god we've been able to stay till 10 o'clock you know um and yeah so that night i had gone to new york and i came back and um i came back and i went to see him that saturday and i could see he was excited and i'm like looking at

him thinking what is this like i know you're excited to see me all the time but there was that extra excitement and I used to tease James because his nose used to sweat only his nose would sweat and he had this small little nose and I'd be like why do you know sweating and he would like to want to leave me alone and then eventually he had written a script um but I'm like what is going on and he had memorized it and then yep and then he said this beautiful speech and and he asked me if he could marry me. He got really upset. He cried.

That was the first ever time I've ever seen him cry. He cried like a baby. I'll be honest with you. He cried like a baby because it really, really affected him that he couldn't give me what I should have deserved. And he was very vocal about that. And I said, and I said yes. Like I'm like, look, death row no death row.

like I'm gonna be with you you know and you weren't expecting this this was unexpected no he did I'll be honest with you he was when he gave his life to Christ he became very vocal that he wanted a pure relationship and go into marriage for somebody who was against marriage he became very intentional that look if I'm going to be in a relationship with you I need to please God and that is by marrying you. Okay. And so I had an idea that that's something that he wanted to do, but I didn't know when it was coming. I just knew it was coming, so eventually. And then, yeah, he proposed, we pray together. And I remember as I'm praying, because we would put our hands together and we would pray. And as I'm praying, I look, and I hear, like, I hear somebody sniffling, which is him on

the phone. And I look up and I'll be honest with you, he's just crying and, crying and crying and he's just apologetic that he couldn't give me the proposal that I deserve. And honestly, it broke my heart. Yeah. Because how do you comfort somebody who really wants to give you everything, but they can't? And that's based on something he should have never been involved in or should have of this is when he kept saying, I regret ever being in that situation. I regret ever listening to my cousin or going there or taking the blame for somebody. I regret this because this is everything I've ever dreamed for and I can't even give it to you properly. Yeah. And that broke his heart.

There's no point of me lying. What does it benefit me to lie? But that truly broke his heart. That was one of the biggest things for James was, I can't give you what I should be giving you as a man. And that's exactly his words. Did you feel that? What did you feel? I held myself together until I come out of that prison. And when I went in that car, I'll be honest with you, it sounds so theatrical, but I reached out my hand to the prison and I started praying and I started crying. I prayed and I cried and I prayed and I cried and I said, Lord, whatever your will is, let it be done.

But this is, this is, this is beyond my understanding. Because you don't want to meet somebody, fall in love with them and they can't even come home with you. And they're literally begging the Lord, God forgive me. God, please change my life around so I can have what I want. James used to say this to me. Before I met you, I had no reason to live. I was giving up in my appeals. And now that I have somebody that loves me and doesn't judge me and sees the real me,

is giving me every reason to want to live even harder. Wow. It changed his desire to fight his death. conviction yeah because by this point i met him the the supreme court had denied had denied his um petition and people don't know but they had requested two dates prior to this one and on and then after i met him he was given an execution date a year and a half later Wow. April 30th.

Yeah, December 17th, he was given the execution date. So there was an execution date April 30th. You were fighting it. You were still hoping, right? You still had hope because of the confession of this co-defendant and other, you know, things that you have pointed out, you went through with wedding. You didn't get married that long ago either. What was the day you got married?

April 14th, but we've been trying to get married since the December before. Before he got his execution date. Really? Yes, people don't realize that. People don't know this. But we only was allowed to get married two weeks prior to his execution date because TDCJ was making it difficult for us. we had been sending that applicant two i think it was two marriage license was expired because they

kept we kept sending off the information and then they kept and i would go to texas and then they will tell me oh it's not been approved yet but we've been i've been on the phone to you guys for months in advance saying is it ready is it this yes yes yes and then i'll get to polinsky unit and they'll be like well i would call them and they'll be like it's not been approved so people don't know that this application started being, we started the application in October last year. We were supposed to get married the first Tuesday of December. That didn't happen. We were supposed to get married back again. I believe we were doing it for February. Didn't happen. We tried again for this March. It didn't happen. And then at the end of March, after I had meetings with the warden and said,

what the heck is going on? Because we keep, I keep, it's costing money to go and get marriage license. and then he has to apply for it again to get his ID and to get all this paperwork from the law library, what is going on? And eventually we was allowed and it was two weeks prior to his execution date. And we hated that. Yeah. I'm so sorry. You've had a, you've had a really exhausting month.

You were married less than a month ago at the time of this recording. Yeah. So you're finally able to get married. Tell me about that ceremony or lack of ceremony or how that became legal, how you became James's wife. We had an officiant. We obviously, that's another thing. We have an officiant who was fantastic. She was very supportive.

Obviously, that all got approved. I had a visit with him prior to that. So our marriage was supposed to be at 5.30, April 14th. So we had a visit prior to that in that day. I had a four-hour visit from 1230 to 4.30 with him. And then I had to leave. I was supposed to leave because there was someone, someone was getting married before us.

We was the second in the line. And we got told. Someone else on death row? I believe so, yes. I think so. I'm not sure because they don't tell us. But I just knew there was a. marriage being done at five and we was five 30 and um very soon we James and I made a joke we

was like oh imagine imagine we was the first people to get married right because we were being impatient and not even like half an hour later a lady said to me oh the first marriage was cancelled has been cancelled so quickly go outside get changed and then come back in so we was like oh my god the first it's not often that marriages get cancelled because that's they're so hard to be approved in TDCJ that to hear somebody's marriage got cancelled there's like you kind of pray for these people and think I hope everything's okay um so we ran back I ran back out change into my dress and met the efficient outside and then we went back in and yeah we said our vows he had his vows written down I had mine uh we prayed because I was very important for James again and I and yeah we

became illegal husband and wife we sent off the paperwork to the county clerk and yeah then husband and wife we came can i ask you uh something personal can you share one thing that you said in your vows and that he said in his the most thing that stands out to me sorry because i need to go back to i don't want to go back to them i haven't opened up our message because he messaged them to me um one thing that it was very big for us because we knew the execution date was approaching. We said not until death do us apart, but until we meet again in the afterlife. It's like marrying someone with a terminal illness almost as similar. Yeah. Yeah, it was bittersweet. There was a lot of crying, a lot of, it was just such an emotional moment. Everybody was crying

because everybody knew what was approaching for us. And even though it was still not guaranteed that it would go ahead, it was like a big cloud of thunder on top of our heads. I know it's fresh. I think it's important to talk about, you have witnessed something that very few people witnessed, which is the execution of an inmate, someone on death row.

I know that there you guys were hoping even up until the day that perhaps the Texas governor would get involved or hear your please you're fighting to the very end. Is that right? Yes, that's right. I had spoken to Governor Abbott's office the Monday before. So he's been executed on Thursday. I had spoken to the office. We had had a meeting and they wanted to hear out why. I wanted this reprieve, this 30-day reprieve. And I was very clear to them. I said, look, I'm not coming to you as a wife. You know, I know that during this time of an execution, you have loads of family members being a wife, family, whatever, screaming and crying, don't kill him, don't kill him. I said, but I'm coming to you as somebody, as an advocate,

as somebody who knows the case. And I said to him, I said to them, look, If we had come to you with just a confession from Demarius with no weight, I'm happy to put my hands up, right? But we've come to you with a confession of DeMarius Cummings plus weight. And the most undeniable weight is the DNA. All I'm asking, and we all ask as the legal team was, stop it for now and investigate it. because it's your duty as a legal state, as a legal judicial court to investigate new evidence. Just investigate it. Pause it for now. Investigate it. And if you guys still feel like it's not good enough, then set him another day.

Yeah. Simple enough request. That's what we asked for. Stop it for now. Stop it for now. complete over the head. Complete no, no, no. And even this law of parties stuff, right? James was never under the law of parties because what people need to understand is legalistically and in normal terms. In order for somebody to be under the law of parties in Texas or any, I don't know about other places, it is for the prosecutor's job to instruct the jury to pursue it. The prosecutor explicitly said, James will not be under the law of parties. And when we looked at the CCA appeal, the judge said that it was the applicant's fault, that he did not have the law of parties, and that if they were to do it again, he will be under the

law of parties. But that does not, but still, that did not determine that he would get the death penalty. So my husband wasn't under the law of parties legally. And also there was evidence to show that he was not the shooter. So my question was always, why are you guys so adamant to execute him when it goes against all the beliefs of what the death penalty is about in Texas? But they were refusing absolutely and completely to investigate the new evidence, but they should, they, by president, procedure, they should have investigated new evidence. Yeah. So I'm not going to the law of parties as a rule that makes anyone associated with the same

crime subject to the same charges. So that's what you're referring to, the law of parties. Yes. Despite his cousin, DeMaria's saying, hey, I was the one that was a shooter because he was there. It was a law of parties. But you're saying that did not, he was not under that. He was not under the law of parties.

James was not, if he was under the law of parties, it would have been a, it would have been hard to go against that because it's, well, he was there and we, we pursued the law of parties on him. He cannot escape that. But James wasn't under, he wasn't under the law of parties because it was never pursued. It has to be instructed to the jury and he said he was not going to pursue that for, for James. However, Damaris is under the law of parties. So it wasn't, and people questioned, why did. did he say it now and not the last 17 years? Yeah, why did DeMarias make the confession and admit to killing two innocent victims now and not years earlier? Because DeMarias believed that James was never going to get an execution date because of the overwhelming evidence that James never did it. Okay. And then when the judge said, why didn't he recant it? Okay, let me give you an example. He recants it. they didn't even take this confession serious how even if he had recanted it without demarius ever

claiming it they would have laughed at him anyway so it was a lose lose situation right and to quote somebody from that family she explicitly put on the social media that she was promised that he was going to die so who promised you but they're all been deleted now so it's that's where my question was what was the rush to kill him why did you guys kill him if he wasn't under the law of parties and we had overwhelming new evidence that matched together to show he wasn't the shooter why didn't anybody sit there and stop as a judicial party to say hold on a minute this is this is there's too much doubt here let's investigate at least at least go question tomorrow

It's a good question. I think that's a fair question. It's a question I have. And that's what we asked for is pause it for now, investigate it. And then if you guys still feel like it's not good enough, then we can go from there. But you guys didn't even give it a chance. You guys didn't even give it a chance to investigate new evidence. That's the whole point of a criminal court. If there's any new evidence that brings doubt to the court of somebody's case, it should always be investigated.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. James, by the way, was the third person to be put to death this year in Texas, the 10th in this country. And of course, Texas is historically well known

for more executions of death row inmates than any other state. Take us to that day. Can you walk us through what happened the day you lost your husband two weeks ago, as you say, the day your husband was murdered? On that morning, I went to see him from 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. I went to see him a lot of crying, a lot of last minute apologies. I guess you apologize for the most. We were apologizing for arguments we've had. It's like you are every like in that moment loads of things,

pardon me, loads of things come up. The what ifs. Oh, I wish we never had this argument over that. Oh, I wish we never fell out for that. There's so many questions, so much crying happened. And I remember James, he, I saw him when I walked in and he stood up as always, he's always stood up when I came in. and he just said to me babe i'm so i never knew how much i could be loved by people and he just started crying and he just started crying because he realized the night before all the death row inmates had been singing amazing grace and praying with him then just a amount of love that people were telling him was coming out from the outside how many people were supporting him i would tell him But he, I would tell him, but to him, it was like, well, my wife is only going to tell me the nice things to make me feel better.

But when other people started telling him how many people, how much his case became so popular, so big. I don't know if popular is a word, but so big. And how many people were fighting for his life. And I remember he just kind of leaned back on the wall. And he just, he was just saying to me, babe, I never realized how much love I could ever receive. I didn't think I was that lovable. And he just came to say to me, I didn't do it, babe. I didn't do it. And I used to say to him, and I kept telling him, I know you didn't. I know, he's like,

they're about to kill me. I'm not ready to die. I'm not ready to die. And there was just so much crying. I kept crying and crying. And it was, honestly, it was just seeing a man. Like, you know, us women generally, and I'm probably going to get slats for this, but us women are emotional beings. We cry pretty much over anything and everything. But what broke my heart is seeing a six foot to a 190 pound, healthy man, and he's just breaking down, crying like a little boy, telling me, I don't want to die. I never did this. I don't want to die.

I'm not ready to die. You know, I want to do what I want to do for people. I want to serve God. I want to be there for people, teach people not to make mistakes like I did. And that broke my heart. And 12 o'clock came and you have this lady who comes in and tells you, you now need to leave. They took pictures of us, our last pictures. And she said, you need to leave.

Honestly, they had to pull me out of there. I said to her, please hold my hand because I can't, like, I'm leaving my husband and they're about to put him in the truck to take him to Huntsville. and yes that was the last time i saw him face to face i was talking properly four hours went fast it was like four minutes um he just had a power raid and beef jerky because that was his favorite two things and um yeah so what happened was i then got escorted to the car a police car followed me halfway to ensure that i wouldn't follow the truck uh to hunt I couldn't leave at first, so I kind of delayed their transportation schedule. And then I drove to Huntsville and he'd already got there because I saw the truck when I went to

Huntsville. And they hadn't even told me anything. I didn't even know where I was going. All I knew was it was in Huntsville. So I knew where it was happening, but I didn't know that there was somewhere else that I had to wait. And then I come to find out that from two to five, he's allowed to call me. So I went to this place called the hospitality house, which is pretty much like a block away from Huntsville. And it's like a little place where all inmates families wait. And I was just sat there. There was two chaplains waiting for me. And it was interesting because one of the chaplains came to me and he said to me, look, I've been doing chaplaincy for many years. but do you know that your husband was given me wisdom just a few days ago and honestly even even the

CEOs that as they were walking me to that to the car they just kept saying I'm so sorry you're going through this because he's never given us problems James was there in there for 17 years he didn't have a disciplinary they said that he was the best inmate that they had he was the easiest inmate that they had never no issues it came to a point I will never forget get for his birthday, as CEO went to his daughter, Sing him, happy birthday. And honestly, he could be trusted without even handcuffs. They never, obviously, like, took off their handcuffs, but they kept saying, you don't even need them. Like, James was always compliant. He never caused problems. And, yeah, so inmates, I could see everybody's just emotional. And then it came to a point,

we were still waiting to see if Governor Abbott's going to call. We had our lawyer, James's lawyers there, two of his lawyers, and no, sorry, three of his lawyers. And it was just me. And it came to about four o'clock. And one of the lawyers saying he's not going to call. Two o'clock, we've got confirmation from the Supreme Court that they've denied us, which was no shock.

We expected it. Supreme Court never takes a petition. And I spoke to him from two. Then his lawyers went to see him. And then his spiritual advisor was with him. And that's when she said to me at four o'clock, about four o'clock, she said to me, she's not going to call.

He would have done it by now. And they were in the middle of telling me how the procedure goes. I had a panic attack. And I collapsed because I couldn't hear it. And I screamed and I said, I need my husband to call me. now. So the chaplain got, called the other chaplain that was with James and said, his wife is calling, telling him to call him now. So I said, whoever's, I don't care of the

spiritual advisors with him, he needs to call me now. So he called me from 421. I still got the screenshot on my phone. From 421 up until 5, I was screaming down the phone. And all he kept saying was take it all out. Take it all out. Take it all out. Take it all out. Take it all it's okay take it all out where's your faith where's your faith but bearing in mind i already knew and i wasn't telling him about it i wasn't telling him that they're not going to call it's done but i don't want to scare him and i'm just screaming and crying and i'm praying i played gospel music in the background and he was like what's wrong why where's your faith and i just kept telling him i love you and we were just talking and at five o'clock they snatched the phone of his hand because

because he was talking and his voice kind of like distance. So you knew that they took the phone off his hand. And they said to me, it's time to go to Huntsville. So I said, I can't drive. I can't drive. So they put me in a car. It was less than 30 seconds. We got to the first building.

And they put me into what, it looked like a little cafeteria, a little room. And I was around, there was me, the lawyer. are and I think there was two officers. Yeah, it was two officers because there were so many officers walking back and forth. But there was these two officers and they were trying to distract me and I just kept saying to them, he never did it. They're trying to kill my husband. They never did it. He like, he never did it. He never did it. And I kept telling them like, my husband is not a trigger finger. He's not that kind of person. I can promise you he's not, you know, he's he's not that person. And they're trying to distract me and I'm just not like one thing about. One thing about,

about me is you can't distract me. Unless you were James Braunax, you couldn't distract me. And they said, once the phone rings, it's time for you to go upstairs. So the phone rang, just past six o'clock, the phone rang. And I ended up seeing, so she said to me, what's your name? And it had my name, the lawyer's name, and at the bottom it had the victims, family members names on there. So I saw everybody that was on there. And I recognized every name. Okay. So till this day, they deny that they weren't there and that I don't know who was there. No, I did because that was at the front door. I saw the list. It was a small little white piece of paper. My name was on there. His lawyer's name was on there. And then at the bottom, it had the victims,

family members there, names. And there was about eight, nine of them. And yeah, so we got taken upstairs we obviously crossed the road to get to the other building and it was like a I can't remember much of it I just remember we walked in turned left there was like the office and then you passed the office and there was like these car like it felt like these long hallways like hospital hallways that just never lasted like never ended sorry and we got into this like little outside area and I was like when are we going to get there and I said to her when am I going to see him and she said as soon as you turned left and as soon as i went in i turned left i saw him strapped and he just and he literally just looked straight into because i know he knew in that moment i was

walking in and just moments before that he kept telling everybody i'm worried about my wife i'm worried about my wife i don't know how she's going to handle this please somebody take care of my wife that's all he kept saying and people kept saying to him you're about to like they're about to kill you and he's like, I don't care. I can't stop this, but I need my wife to be okay. That's what he kept saying. And I kept saying, I need my wife. That's all James ever said, those last moments was, I need my wife. And as soon as I turned and I saw him, I started screaming. And it was strapped to a gurney. You put your arms out for those that can't see. Yeah, he was strapped a green. It's in a crucifix.

Cruces. Okay. Yeah, it's crucifix. But they cover him. So he, he is strapped in belts all the way to his toes and his arms, but he is covered with a sheet, like a bed sheet from here downward, so you can't see it. And the windows, so it's like a small green room, no chairs apart from foldable chairs in the corner. And it's a small green room. And right at the bottom that room is a massive window with red bars. And they had told me, because this is another thing that they had like, they said that I banged on those windows. They had said to me, you are not allowed to bang in those windows, right? You're not allowed to bang in those windows.

So I read Deney, there's no point of me banging. What am I going to benefit from banging on it? It's not going to stop it. And they said to me, once you go into that room and the door is locked, you cannot come out of that room unless there's in a case of emergency or up until they declare him dead. Okay. So for me, I'm already in the room.

Oh, go ahead. Yeah. Sorry, I walk in and I scream, I'm like, ah, like I'm screaming because I can't, my brain can't comprehend when my eyes are seeing him. It looked, and I will always call it, it was a final destination movie. And I ran to the window and I didn't know he could hear me. So I'm, I'm like, baby, are you okay? Baby, what they do? Baby, what they do? Baby, like, I'm talking to him and he's nodding at me. And I'm like, you can hear me. And they're like, yeah, he can hear you. So at this point, I'm just talking to him and him and I are talking back and forth. And I'm looking at

his arm. I'm seeing the IV. I'm looking at, I'm like trying to comprehend this, his spiritual advisor, this lady next to the spiritual advisor and there's another lady on, on the, by his feet. And I'm looking and I can see what people don't realize is I can see the reflection, even though there's a window right in front of James, it's tilted, but I could still sue the reflection to the victim's families, right? And but I didn't care. I'll be honest with you, in that moment, I don't care. And, and I'm talking to him and I'm talking to him and I'm crying and I'm screaming and I'm like, I'm just, I can't believe that I'm watching all of this, right? And I'm, I'm having like a psychotic breakdown in there. And I had a police officer next to me. I have a chaplain next to me.

And I'm speaking to him. And then the pastor decided, they decide to start. They decide to start. the pastor puts her hand on his shoulder and she starts praying and she prayed for about 10 minutes and I'm talking to him and they're like shush tiana shush because they're praying and I'm like I don't care like I don't care at this point like pray this pray right now is not going to stop it so I need to talk to him and me and james had agreed that morning that we were going to look at each other in the eyes the whole time right so he in that prayer yard I can see him clencher's joy and his temple was tense in because he's clenching his jaw. And I can see he's looking at the victims' families, the butlers and the swans, and he starts crying.

And I'm like, babe, look at me, babe, look at me, look at me. Because I can see the more he's looking at the swans and the butlers, the more he's getting stressed and crying. So I'm like, look at me, look at me. So he's looking at me. He's looking up in the air. It's like he was trying to get himself mentally prepared for what's about to happen. to him. He says his statement, he says it to the Swans and the Bottlers by looking at them, and then he turns around to me and he looks at me and he speaks. Now, they usually say,

I'm ready warden. He didn't say it. He nodded, right, to the lady. And as he nodded, him and I started speaking and I kept saying to him I'm sorry and he kept saying to me I love you queen don't give up I love you don't give up and as he said don't I mean and I'm gonna do it he was like that like literally facing me and next thing you know he goes oh and then he drops and nobody can tell me that's a death rattle that's not he's the head jerked up and he went oh and his eyes like I saw his eyes go up and he shut his eyes looking at me and he turned and his head dropped and I screamed so loud I dropped because I screamed open your eyes open your eyes oh I'm screaming I'm like I'm sorry I love you I'm sorry I was supposed to stop this I'm sorry

and they picked me up they sat me on the seat and I'm like take him out take him out and they're like, no, no, no, you have to wait for 20 minutes until he's officially dead. And they're holding me on the seat. And they said there was four people holding me on the seat. And I'm like, I need to get out of what, what's going on? And I'm looking up at the chaplain. And I'm like, they're killing him. They're killing him. And I'm looking at him. And I said, please let me get up. And it was like, okay, as long as you don't, you're going to be okay. So I got up and I'm looking at him and his lips are going blue and they're going blue and they're going blue.

His face is going red and then it's going blue and it's going blue. Veins are starting to appear on his forehead. So from my knowledge, it's either he's going into cardiac caressed or he's suffocating. Right. But he's unconscious. And I watched that for 20 minutes. minutes. And I was just speaking to him. I was just speaking to him for 20 minutes. And they said to me, the spiritual advisor said to me that all you kept talking about was Jesus. I don't remember anything I said.

But all they said was you kept talking about Jesus. You kept talking about unity, mercy and forgiveness. And they said one thing that you said was the enemy, in the Bible it says that the enemy prowls like a, prowls like a sneaking lion, but he no longer has to do that because people do it for him now. And apparently, everybody heard me, including the butlers and the swans, everything I was talking about unity, forgiveness, love, how can you say you have Jesus and go to the church and you, you don't, and you can sit here and be happy about this or whatever. And then 20 minutes, 20 minutes later passed. and the lady bless her, the lady that was with me, she kept saying to me, Tiana, I need you to calm down. I really want you to see your husband's body.

Please, I can see you're getting angry. I can see you're getting angry. Please don't do anything silly. Like, you know, because there was one point I turned around and I'm looking at everybody one by one. And the lawyer is telling me, please, Tiana, please, Tiana, just calm down. Just look at you. Just focus on James. And I'm like, what am I focusing on?

They're killing him. Like, then literally nobody's stopping it and they're killing him. Everybody is like, this is like a theatre show and nobody's saying we need to stop this, you know. And I watched him, the doctor comes in, he uses the Sestoscope, checks his heart beat. And I'm like, surely right now they're going to say he's alive. And he looks at the clock and he says time of death, 647. And in that moment, I said to them, get me the hell out of him now. And the lady, the officer was like, Tiana, you're getting angry.

Tiana, you're getting angry. And I said to her, look, all I'm going to ask you right now is hold me as tight as you can. Because right now, this is not finished. I said, hold me as tight as you can as you're walking out of there because I don't know what's going to happen. And not in terms of violent, but I just didn't know how my body was going to react. Sure. Because I had gone in so much distress in those, in that 30 minutes that we was in there. And it felt like a lifetime.

So they've walked me out. They've walked me out. I see these three, I don't know, apparently their Huntsville's head office, as we call it in English. And I looked at them and I said, I prayed you all find Jesus. And we walked out as soon as we got to the front, I don't know what it was. The wind hit me and I was like, oh my God, my husband just got killed. And I'm like, and my legs start shaking and I can't no longer walk. And it just hit me that.

My husband just got killed in front of my face. And they had to carry me to the other side and they sat me down because I just kept dropping. And they couldn't carry me anymore because it was, maybe I was heavy. I'm only about 110 pounds. So I don't know how they found me heavy, but they sat me down and I had a panic attack after panic attack after panic attack. But they were trying to rush me out of there because the butlers and the swans were coming out. And they rushed me out and I said to them, take me to the funeral home right now. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to know it. Take me to the funeral home right now.

And as we got out, I don't know what happened. I went, I started running. I started running. I was running back. to Huntsville. But I will be honest with you, in this whole time, I don't know what my brain is not with me. It's not. I don't know why I started running and I'm like, I'm going to the, I need to go see somebody and that person wasn't even there. Like, and the police officers started running after me and they pulled me out and they took me in the car and they took me to the funeral home. I saw the funeral car. I ran after the funeral car. I'm like, I'm, I'm manic. I'm, this whole time, the chaplain says to me, you're going to be allowed to go in to see him for 20

minutes. However, you can touch him, but you're not allowed to touch him in his arms where the injection, where the IV was inserted because it's still dangerous and you can come in contact with the lethal injection and that is dangerous for you. But it's okay because we've covered him with a sheet from here onwards, but please make sure you don't touch his arm. because it's dangerous. And I went to see him. His lips were dry. He had a nose bleed. And then his right side, his ear was bruised. I've got pictures. I took pictures after they released his body. His ear was bruised and where the, and this was swollen and it was bruised. And it was bruised here. And I turned around and I'm

surrounded by officers and I'm surrounded by the chaplain and the warden. And he said to me, I said to him, he's had a nose bleed. And there was like, he was like, oh. And because I was in so much shot, I was so like, one, this was the first time I'm touching my husband. Yeah. Two, I kind of just like brushed it off. I just said to him, he's had a nosebleed. And you can see they tried to clean it off because there was still like marks on his nostril and then inside I pulled his nostril and there was blood and I touched the swelling and you could feel there was liquid and he looked like he had been beaten. Was it clear he suffered to you? A hundred percent. You know, yeah, I mean, I think this is a question many Americans have, many in our country have,

is is death humane for death row inmates. I don't know your thoughts now that you've actually witnessed your own husband's death. How do you measure suffering? Because, you know, people say to me, yeah, but what the victims they suffered too. And I said, everybody suffered. How do you measure suffering? Yeah. If I was under the impression that it would be like anesthesia,

an aesthetic, like, you're like, five, four, three, two, one, and you're like, oh, and you go to sleep. My husband's head jerked, and he groaned. That's not humane. Right. And then even for the media, the state media, to come out and lie and say that he was silent after his statement and that he died peacefully, how are you meant to be? And they told me that she was there to ensure that nothing went. wrong, but before my eyes, you came out and did an interview and said that he and lied.

Because I put it on my TikTok, two different versions from Dallas Morning News and from what she said, how can anybody trust the state media that is meant to witness these executions and ensure nothing went wrong when there's no cameras? At this point, it's your word against the states. We're meant to trust you, right? to make sure that nothing goes wrong. So as far as we know, anything can happen in that room like it happened to my husband and you're just going to come out and lie and say he died peacefully and he was silent after the statement?

Yeah. If that doesn't bear question of, did he die peacefully? Because what happened is different from what you're saying. My husband did not die peacefully. Someone actually, a few people have messaged me and said, dogs and animals get put down more peacefully. That's what I'm wondering too. You know, I was with my, I was with my dog when we had no choice but to let her go.

And I do recall it being peaceful for my beloved pet. So you think it wasn't that. No. Even Dallas Morning News, when she witnessed it and she said, he could not even finish his last sentence. He groaned. He groaned. head jerked up and he grunt, I have no reason to lie. I have no reason to lie. What does it benefit me? He's gone. I can't bring him back. It was never humane and it would never be humane. It's cruel and

it will never be uncrual. And people came out of their smiling with drinks in their hands as if they were just coming up the bar and they just watched a baseball game. My husband suffered. Yeah. So who Who won at the end of this? Yeah, the death penalty isn't supposed to be about suffering. It's about justice, not revenge. And I'm not talking about James' case, but in general. Yeah. The death penalty is about whether or not someone is such a risk and such a danger

that they're almost considered a monster that shouldn't exist on this planet. I'm not talking about James, just in general. in general, that if the world is better without them, but it's not supposed to be about suffering the way their victim suffered or I know that some people see it that way. I'm not, you know, well, if the victim suffered, they should suffer too, but that's, it isn't the point of the death penalty, you know.

It's. For anyone to suffer. My husband suffered mentally so bad before that that when I checked his teeth, he had grind his front tooth. He had developed grey hair and he had lost a large amount of weight. So not only did he go mentally suffering. I have pictures from our wedding day to the day of his execution. Two different human beings. He had bitten his nails to the, literally to the body.

of his fingernail, his fingernail to the bottom. That's how stressed he was, mentally suffering. And then after that, he suffered in that gurney. Let me ask you this. That quote of yours I read at the beginning. You said, I'm going to expose everyone. The fight didn't end here. It got worse. You killed Mr. Broadnecks, but you ain't killed Mrs. Broadnicks. I want to understand more about what's next for you and what you mean by that quote. I'm going to clear my husband's name. I want people to understand that the law is not about emotion. It's a due process that needs to be done in justice and in fairness. Hence why there's the amendment of a fair trial.

I need people to understand that you don't have to manipulate a trial in order to find somebody guilty. I want people to understand that if you're going to do something and you're going to put a law or policy, it has to be in the right procedure. It needs to be implemented the right way. The justice system needs to be just. Do process. Thank you. And justice does not mean it defends only one side. It defends both defendants and victims.

Yeah, and you're right. It's not about emotion. Again, it's about due process. Although there's a lot of emotion involved in the justice process. I've experienced that emotion. But you're right. And we need to start speaking out loud about the death penalty because it's not what people seem to think it is. It is a problem.

process, it's a legal, it's a legal policy, it's a law that is not used correctly. And I can't bear to my, I can't bear it in my mind that my husband was killed for something he didn't do. Bearing in mind, he was killed to be because he was the shooter. He wasn't killed because he was there. Right. Right. So, but yet there was enough evidence to bring reasonable doubt. So, I want to clear my husband's name. I want to show the people that this was wrongfully done and to keep on advocating against the death penalty because if you love your citizens of Texas and you want to keep them safe, you need to make sure that these laws that you are implementing and bring it into the state are used correctly.

And just, yeah, that's my job. Where can we follow your work? You've mentioned your TikTok account. I've seen some of your TikToks. Where can we follow your work? Let us know some of the places. We are still using the Jamesbronax.org website. TikTok is my main thing right now.

Yeah, that's right now. I am hoping to go on YouTube as well to speak more about his case. I am going to be breaking down his case, transcript as per transcript. And yeah, so that's it. But right now it's just TikTok on his website. Okay. And Instagram justice for James Brownax. Okay. I mean, you fell in love with someone. You just became a widow two weeks ago. Your name is now, you took, you took his name. Are you planning to stay in Texas? Are you going to go back to Britain? What are your, where are you in life and transition? I mean, this is a major

life transition for you. You have a lot of decisions to make. Right now, I'll be honest with you. I don't know. I'm taking it day by day. I'm still grieving my husband's death. I'm still trying to, it's a traumatic experience. So right now, I don't know. I'll be honest with you, I don't know, one step at a time. Do you have people you can rely on right now in Texas where you are? Do you have close people? I've got people all over that I've been so supportive, so loving. And they've pretty much just, they just kind of, I love the fact that they've been so patient with me

because there's been days where I'll be screaming, crying, days where I can't sleep and I run out of my bed because I keep seeing flashbacks of the execution. And I'll be honest with you, sometimes I will wake up and think I'm still in the room, in that room, the execution room. So they've been so loving to be understanding and to understand that. I just went through a traumatic experience

and that they need to support me. So yeah. I want to go back to, we can conclude, thank you for your time. I don't think either of us expected to be this long, but I really value. this conversation. I want to go back to a question I posed earlier about the stereotypes of a woman who, you know, meets a murderer on death row and falls in love and marries them. And I think the

stereotype often involves a woman who maybe wants to rescue someone. I think that's fair. you know, someone that maybe wants to, you know, feel like they can rescue a bad boy. And I see your story after learning more about it. I think, I think in many ways you did rescue him, not in a, I want to rescue a bad boy or saving him from death. But I found it really beautiful that you stated that him understanding love made him want to live. It was really touching to me. And I think in that sense, you did save him a little bit. You made him want to live and gave him hope because of your love for him.

I think that's the most beautiful thing about humanizing someone is giving them hope and a purpose. But I also see in many ways that perhaps he healed a lot for you, too. and that maybe this was mutual, that you both healed a lot in one another. You mentioned you were both therapist to one another and you talked a lot. And maybe I'm assuming I hope and sense that perhaps the two of you could perhaps, you know, heal something in one another. And it sounds like he's giving you a great purpose and that this fight isn't over for you and that you know a lot and have experienced a lot, something that most people will never experience.

And it sounds like, you know, are someone on a mission. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah, it's fair to say. I don't think you can, one thing I have to say is you can never rescue a bad boy that doesn't want to be, doesn't want to do his own healing. Right. And that's the difference about James, because James and I used to speak about this, about women, wanting to be with this bad boy and wanting to be with somebody because, oh, he's in prison.

You can't rescue somebody from them themselves. He was rescuing himself. I was just an extra to his life that was from the outside that had the abilities to do the things in the outside that he couldn't do. I was just an extra hand. He had been rescuing himself for 17 years and if my husband was a bad boy gangst or whatever they were calling him i'll be honest with you i wouldn't be sitting here right now he rescued himself i was just an extra hand to make to try and bring the possibilities of the dreams that he had you can't rescue somebody from themselves especially in prison it's either you go in prison because you did something and you don't want to want to rehabilitate and you and you know and then or in his case you're wrongfully convicted

and you're trying to prove your innocence you're trying to prove your factual innocence and and fight for your life or you go in there and you just don't rehabilitate and you just want to live that life because that's comfort for you you can't and this is this is one of the biggest messages i have to women is you can't rescue an inmate they have to rescue themselves well said you for saying that. That's well said. You know, my husband, again, forensic and clinical psychologist, he often says that every crime and criminal begins with a failed love story. In other words, you mentioned James' life where he didn't have a lot of support. And so I feel like oftentimes healing is also, though, accepting love. And you say he had to do that himself.

and finding love but accepting love. And love can heal. So. Yeah. But yeah, thank you. Yeah. He healed himself. And it sounds like you understand that and that you also are in a healing journey yourself too. I can't imagine.

You're probably still in shock. Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy. No. It's not. So I wish you the best of luck. And I hope that we can stay in touch.

I don't know where your fight will lead. And I don't know all the workings of its case. I would be really interested to see all the transcripts. I know it's online and in the media and what I've read from numerous outlets to prepare for our interview and for the reason I reached out to you. But I will learn more. You've inspired me to learn more. So thank you for that. You're welcome.

Thank you for having me. It's been nice talking to you. I know there's been so much to say. There's still so much to this case that I promise you will take back a whole series to talk about it. But I just want to make that revolution that my husband spoke about in his last speech. I want it. I want there to be a difference under his name, not just for him for everybody else. because sometimes it takes one life to die for many to be saved.

And yes, I will do what I promised my husband. And he told me, don't stop believing, put God first, and don't stop, don't ever give up. And that's what I'm going to live for. Thank you, Tiana. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's be in touch. We'll see you. Yes. Thank you.