Hidden True Crime - STAMPIN UP HEIRESS- EXPLOSIVE UPDATES IN SHANNA GARDNER CASE/JARED BRIDEGAN MURDER

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

This episode was recorded live on February 10th, 2024 and is the fourth episode in our series about Shanna Gardner, the daughter of Stampin' Up founders, who has been charged with murder. Dr John has been reading hundreds of pages of newly released documents in the Jared Bridegan case and just told Lauren this episode is going to be a wild ride! To read the hundreds of pages of docs for yourself, head to our Patreon account https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime For full access to Shanna Gardner and Jared Bridegan's divorce documents, including their pre-nup, head to our Patreon account HERE DR. JOHN MATTHIAS is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist with 30 years’ experience in both clinical and forensic work. He serves as an expert witness for the federal government and has consulted on numerous high-profile cases for District Attorney’s offices and defense attorneys in several states. Dr. Matthias graduated with honors in philosophy from Princeton University, and he won the prestigious McCosh Thesis prize while there. In high school he graduated valedictorian from a large public high school in Chicago where he was chosen to participate in a ground-breaking valedictory study that continues to this day. LAUREN MATTHIAS has worked as an anchor and reporter for ABC, NBC, and FOX News in East Idaho, Boise, Idaho and Salt Lake City, Utah. She spent a decade reporting on a diverse range of topics from high profile crimes to Presidential visits. Most recently, she reported for Salt Lake City’s ABC affiliate News4Utah. In 2015 she received the Idaho State Broadcaster’s Association Best Reporter award. She has reported for News Nation and now produces the Hidden True Crime Podcast along with her husband Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist. HIDDEN: A TRUE CRIME PODCAST is: CRIMINAL PSYCHOLOGY REINVENTED. Join us on a journey into the darkest recesses of the human mind and the unconscious motivations that drive human behaviors in order to understand the world and ourselves. WEBSITE: https://hiddentruecrime.com/ SUPPORT: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime https://paypal.me/hiddentruecrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thank you for your patience as we started a little bit later tonight. John restarted his computer and then I had to restart mine. So working from home, hashtag working from home. And also, thank you for your patience while you anxiously awaited to know what our topic was going to be tonight. We had a good solid suspicion at what our topic would be, but John, as always, has to really deep dive and make sure he knows everything he can before he goes live. And that happened, and we are able to announce that today is another episode

on the Jared Bridigan-Channa Gardner case. I mentioned in my member live that this case has really been intriguing us. Jared Bridigan, well, I'll let John. share the details. And we also have an incredible playlist now that has been built, helping anyone that wants to follow get caught up on this case. And I recommend you do because it is just getting started. And we're going to see this case through. But Jared Bridegan was gunned down in front of his two-year-old daughter and his now ex-wife and her husband, now her second ex-husband. John's going to answer that for us until recently.

her husband, Mario Fernandez, along with a hitman, Henry Tennant, were all arrested in this young father's death, murder, I should say. And then, you know, you throw in Jose Pius being her attorney. He was also Casey Anthony and Harvey Weinstein's attorney, just to name two of the very high profile cases he has covered. And then throw in that Shanna Gardner comes from. from an incredibly wealthy family, the owners of the MLM crafting company stamping up, you got a bit of everything in this case. And the one thing we all want is justice for Jared.

And with that, I'm about to have a coughing fit, so I'm going to let you take over, sweetheart. Okay. I'm not sure if that was a sufficient introduction, but I would recommend, okay, I would recommend our listeners who are not familiar with this particular case to go listen to our previous episodes on the Shanna Gardner case. Those were released last fall.

Is that right, Lauren? I want to say October, November. The reason we're doing the show tonight is because there's been a huge number of documents that supplemental reports that have been released publicly in the last week. in fact, over 500 pages. And there are a number of pieces of evidence, I think, that are interesting. For me, the most interesting component of the reports has been the interviews. There's some really fascinating interviews. You know, the news in Jacksonville in particular is discussing primarily the interviews with

Shana, Gardner, and Mario Fernandez-Salda. but they're neglecting a lot of these other interviews that I was able to kind of look through. And I probably missed some, by the way. I haven't had time to go through all the documents in detail. But I think we can start putting some pieces of this puzzle together. And I think we can start considering motive. And there's some tidbits here, I think,

that people aren't going to be aware of that are going to be really critical on this case. And I don't know if that means the prosecution is going to pick up some of this or not. I mean, but from my perspective, from a psychological perspective, I think there's so much in here that's really fascinating that we haven't seen before and we haven't talked about. So I want to look at some of these interviews. We'll be talking about them, analyzing them,

and kind of putting these pieces in the puzzle. in addition to considering the perspective of Shanna Gardner and her family. So Shelly Gardner and Sterling Gardner were interviewed by the police as well. Utah parents, yes. You have this picture that they're painting that is very, very different from the one that you and I began to portray months ago. And I think in fairness to the Gardner family that, you know, we need to consider their perspective and and talk about it and, you know, give them the benefit of the doubt to some

degree about their perceptions of Jared, I guess. I mean, I think we'll be poking holes in some of that, but... Two sides to every story. Right. It would only be fair. It would only be fair. And so, again, to reiterate for those new to this case, Shelley and Sterling Gardner are the parents who owns stamping up, and they are the parents of Shanna Gardner, a Utah family. And also, all of these documents, John went over hundreds of pages of documents. I want to share this too. Those will all be on our Patreon right after we're done with tonight's show. So for those that want to deep dive into these documents that John will be discussing,

we have a lot. And hundreds of pages will be on our Patreon account. Patreon.com slash hidden to crime at the end of this episode. And there is a link in the description of this video. I'm going to start with, so I don't, to use your term, so I don't bury the lead here. I'm, I guess I'm going to take this from more of a journalistic perspective. But let's, let's come out of the blocks here tonight with what I think is one of the most incredible statements in all of these documents. And that statement, which I haven't heard the news talk about, by the way, or anybody, any podcasters.

That statement comes from Shanna, from Shanna Gardner. This is her first interview with detectives. So just as a reminder, the murder occurred on February 16th of 2022. And Shanna Gardner gives her first interview on March 1st of 2022. So this is the very end of her interview. And here's what she says near the end. end of her interview. I'm going to quote this. This is obviously recorded. It's on video. It's on audio. Here's what she said.

Quote, Shanna stated in moments of anger, she has thought how much easier, quote, this would be. So when she says this would be, she means not only her life, but she means Jared's death. So Shanna says, quote, she stated in moments. of anger she has thought how much easier this would be, meaning Jared's death and her life, but ultimately she wished no ill will on them, meaning Jared and Kirsten. Kirsten is Jared's now wife who he has, or now widow, who he had two children with. Wow. So she stated, apparently she stated not only at the end, but several times.

that she thought how much easier this would be, meaning her life with Jared deceased. So there's a couple of points I want to make here. Thanks for not bearing the lead, babe. Thanks for not bearing the lead. Yeah. Right. So, right. Because when I read that, I almost fell out of my chair.

There's a couple of reasons that's why I've almost fell out of my chair. Number one, this is a police interview. Yeah. If you're not on your guard and defensive and on your best behavior for a police interview within 10 days to two weeks of a brutal murder of your ex-husband, then that's a problem, right? So there's motive here. She's giving us motive.

She's telling us that her life would have been a lot easier if Jared was dead. So she says that. She says it. And she's also saying in that statement, obviously, if you read between the lines, she's saying she wishes ill on them and then she takes it back. And she says, but ultimately she wished no ill will on them. So she's saying essentially, one, she's given this motive. Her life would be easier and the custody battle would be over. And two, she's saying reading between the lines that she wants Jared dead.

Yeah. That's exactly what I took from it. That's what I took from it. I don't know how else to read this, but this is on the record, this is in her interview. It's towards the very end. For those of you want to go look at this, this is the interview for March 1st. It's in the supplemental materials that we'll be posting. So I want to start with that because-

Read it one more time. Will you read it one more time, the quote now? Let me actually read the sentence before it too. Gardner mentioned, because I think the sentence before is important, quote, Gardner mentioned that the, quote, timing of all this is weird, unquote, because she had just decided to, quote, let go of the frustration and just make the best of the situation. She stated in moments of anger, she has thought how much easier, quote, this would be, but ultimately she wished no ill will on them, Jared, and Kirsten. And no ill will, but it would sure be a lot easier for me if this could happen. It would be a lot easier if, right, this would be, meaning his, his demise, his, his, his, his demise, his death.

Wow. Wow. And not only that, the line before, I think the sentence before is equally interesting in the sense that she said, the timing of this is all weird, right? Because think about that. She's saying the timing of this is weird, but, but somehow convenient, right? because now all her, in her minds eye, all her troubles are gone. All her custody issues are gone. It's weird because it's almost as she's saying she manifested it.

Right. She's saying the timing of this is weird because she had just decided to let go. She let everything go. Conveniently, she let everything go after Jared is deceased. She let go of the frustration and decided to make the best of the situation. Well, she's right. That is convenient. like she's absolutely right.

The timing of this is weird, especially if she had a hand in the timing of this, right? Like, I mean, I don't, this is as close you're going to get to an admission of guilt in a police interview where you're saying you're not guilty as you'll ever see in a police report. A confession when you're not confessing and you're trying to claim you're not guilty to the police

in an official police interview, this is as close as you're going to get. Right. And then keep in mind, this is March 1st, 2022. Keep in mind that in June of 2022, she goes on, she goes, she does one public interview. We played that in one of our previous shows in back in the fall.

That she goes on an interview with one of the local Jacksonville stations. It was Action News, Jax, CBS, Jacksonville. She doesn't. She denies absolutely everything. Shannon Garner. She denies everything. Yeah. That's one interview she did.

She did one interview. And so I think that it's, that's interesting too from the standpoint of if you consider that she knows she said this, that this was a bit of a slip. Now, could you, could you use this in court as a confession? No. obviously not. But I mean, I think if I were prosecuting this case, I would certainly look at this statement and think,

let the jury decide, right? Like, I mean, she's saying the timing of this is weird. She decided to let go, but conveniently, he just happened to die. And oh my gosh, how much easier would this be? Meaning his, him being deceased, Jared being deceased. But ultimately, I don't wish ill well on everyone, even though I just wished ill will on him.

And I just pointed out that the timing of this is all so weird, right? Like, I mean, so that statement really stands out. For somebody who is absolutely innocent and has no involvement in a murder whatsoever and can completely act as an innocent person, they're not going to make this kind of statement. No. In fact, they're not even going to get near. They're not going to say that their life would be easier.

And I don't know. So anyway, so yeah, I don't want to bury the lead. The lead is, I guess the lead here is that there, there's a statement by Shannon Gardner on March 1st, 2022, which is about as close to an admission of guilt as you'll see in a formal police interview within two weeks of a murder. short of somebody just sort of like the Chris Watts situation where he confessed and acknowledged everything he did. I mean, she's clearly she's not doing that. She, she didn't confess to the murder,

but she confessed to manifesting it. Right. Right. She does seem like she might be a practitioner. of the secret, but I don't know. Maybe that's going too far. She does seem to imply that, right, that the timing is weird, because maybe she manifested it.

I don't know. Obviously, the prosecution thinks she did more than manifest it with her mind that she, you know, put the, she put the wheel. Yeah, she confessed to wanting it. What's that? She confessed to wanting it, Sherry Douglas says. Yeah. Right.

Exactly, that she's showing intent here. She's showing motive. She's showing that she believes without a question that her life would be improved. If Jared just happened to be deceased, which is weird, the timing's weird. You know, Lemisa says this, and it's interesting. It's sort of like Chad DeVille saying, oh, I believe in that Tammy will die. Tammy, Dave, my wife will die, and I have another mission. He's not confessing to it, but he's manifest.

casting it and saying, see, I told you. Yeah, that's a good point, except for the differences that Davell was talking about Tammy dying for years prior to meeting Lori. So, yeah, right. I guess Debao was putting it out there in the universe well before he met Lori. And then when he met- Making videos, yeah, go ahead. And when he meets Lori, it takes on more priority, obviously.

Yeah. Oh, Chad. I'll be at his trial in just another month and a half. So I want to start with that. There's so much in these documents that we need to talk about. But that, I don't know how. So there you have it. You have something very close to an admission of guilt without an admission of guilt, as you point out. out. But it's there. So let's start with that. And then, you know, of course, the interview she did for TV is equally important because any hint that she was involved, she walks that back.

Any hint that somehow her life would be easier, she totally walks it back a few months later. Which also, as you and I have talked about, it appears that the family may have hired a PR firm to help her walk through that interview, right, which it shows that there's something strategic about that interview and there's something very strategic about how Shana is handling this entire situation, right, that this isn't just some random interview she's giving. It's something that's scripted and it's planned, right, and it's a way to potentially present herself in a different fashion before people like us get a hold of these actual interview transcripts. Right. And, you know, when the father of her children is gunned down, the first thing

the Garner family does not do is hire a private investigator with their millions. They hire a PR firm. Well, you know, they have to go on. Okay. Okay. But we'll hear their side today. We're going to hear their side tonight. So. So let's get into, yeah, so let's dive a little bit deeper into what is what not only Shannon is saying, but Mario and the family and some of the people that know them.

So another part of the interview she gives for CBS back in June of 2022, she says essentially, I think there's questions about who could have done this, right? And one of the things she says is that Jared was involved in some, quote, shady business dealings. She talked about that in the custody documents as well. And she talked about in the custody documents, she talked about the fact that she believed Jared was abusive. That she said that he was, that he had pushed her, I think. I don't have those in front of me. I should have looked at them.

But that she essentially portrays Jared as a villain. Correct. Which is also odd because I want to say he did help with numerous businesses that the gardeners had. And they would ask him. So it's interesting that now she's saying that he had some shady business deals. But go on. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records

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Discover your true age today. So before I get into some of the things that the Gardner family is claiming about Jared, I want to, let's reiterate, let's review some of the information we obtained from third-party sources. So you and I talk to a lot of mission companions. We talked to people that knew the Gardner family very well. We talked to people. Mission companions of Shana, to clarify. Mission companions of Shana and many people that knew the Gardner family.

Right. We've talked to a lot of sources that many who don't want to be named, by the, I don't think any of them do. But very close to this situation and to the Gardner family. And I'm just going to get. give some of their perspectives before we start this because I think I need to frame it with this. So, and these, by the way, some of this is going to be repetitive from our earlier shows. But one of the mission companions told us that the main defining feature of Shanna Gardner's

personality was that she was, quote, controlling. She said, quote, Shanna wanted to control everything she did. She just took charge. There was no asking with her. So she, this mission companion was referring to certain events that would occur during the mission. And Shanna Gardner, you would, so there were certain events on free days, right? And that Shanna hosted a few of those events and she would just do everything. She wouldn't ask anyone.

The mission companions for the most part, they saw her as extremely controlling. She needed to control everything. some of the other adjectives they used to describe Shanna were that she was emotionally immature. She needed, quote, lots of comfort and reassurance, that she lacked a sense of self, that she was extremely entitled. One person told us that, quote, money overshadowed her personality and ruled her life. Regarding Jared, another person told us, quote, Jared was a pushover, and she ran all over him all the time. These are from third-party sources. I want to frame our discussion with some of those comments.

This might be helpful to. I compiled a list of adjectives that many of these sources told us that they believed applied to Shanna Gardner. Some of them were used multiple times. Some were not. But I'm just going to go through this list that she was described as being, quote, kooky, nutty, off, mentally ill, unstable, moody, attention-seeking, controlling was something used a lot, entitled was used a lot, and spoiled was used more than once. A few other people mentioned that they believe

she was manipulative and obsessive, that she ruminated a lot. She couldn't let go of things. Although she told police she'd let go of this one. Go ahead. She'd let go. Right. She just, that Jared was murdered, you know,

10 days previously and she just let it go. And to be fair, some companions spoke positively of her. They talked about the fact that she was funny. She could be fun-loving. She was very extroverted. Great storyteller. She was a great storyteller. She was a good cook.

Apparently she made some really great cookies. She was very musical. She led the choir at times on the mission. Let's clarify. Many people are saying, what is a mission companion for those new to this case? Shanna Gardner was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-D-S so we're referring to like a Mormon mission where she went when she was

19 years old on a mission to Spain. So these are people that were placed with her to be her mission companion and roommates. Go ahead. So in this document, she talks about, let's begin with the love story with Jared. So she talks about how they met. She says,

she says in the interview with detectives that she wasn't into Jared and that Jared pursued her. And because I'll read some of this. This is Shannon. Quote, she stated, Shanna stated, the initial date did not go well,

but he kept pursuing her. Gardner stated she became, quote, desperate, so she decided to try to make it work. She stated they were married after two months. She stated, looking back, she wonders if Jared did not have ulterior motives, knowing she came from money.

So her narrative about Jared is that she wasn't into Jared. He pursued her. she gave in, married him, and now she realized on March 1st of 2022 that Jared clearly only wanted to marry her for her money. You and I know, Lauren, that in talking to many, many sources about this particular case,

that the complete opposite was true. That Jared was not into her. In fact, Sterling in his interview, So in Sterling's interview with on May 11th of 2022, Sterling did interviews, Shirley and Sterling did interviews. Those are the parents of Shanna Gardner. Sterling said that Jared even said, that Jared referred to Shanna.

Apparently, I don't know how he knew this, but apparently Jared had referred to Shanna as, quote, a dog, unquote. And then Sterling clarifies that to say, meaning that apparently Jared did not find, Shana Gardner to be attractive. So that's a different story too. But the story that you and I consistently heard was that Jared was not into her,

that Shanna was actually the one who pursued him very vigorously. And part of pursuing him was to shower him with money and gifts and trips and many of the things that the Gardner family has been known to do. Right. And we also heard, I just want to say, another interesting story to this. You guys can hear another side is that she did do this with another. This isn't the first man she did this with. She did this with another young man whose family said this happened to them too. But that young man did not end up marrying Shana. And so the story that Shana is telling and the Gardner family is telling specifically is that, that Jared is a gold digger, that Jared was chasing the money, that she had no interest in him, and that if it wasn't for the fact that he was so rabid in his pursuit of her, that she never would have ended up with him.

And we know from talking to almost every one of our sources said the complete opposite. In fact, there was a story about the, what was it, a letter, right? A letter to the written to the mission companions about how it was the worst first date she'd ever had. But part of it was that Jared just simply wasn't interested in her. The thing that stands out about that is the amount of projection going on, right? That how she's taking that story because in a way that story is painful to her in the sense that she's the one being rejected. She's the one who's doing the pursuing. She's the one with the money to woo him over.

And that's not to say that it was only money. I don't, Jared deserves better than that. It wasn't just money that one. Jared over. Shanna has a lot of positive qualities. I think that Jared tends to be a bit of an introvert. I think that maybe to some degree that Jared was the one who she used the terms that she says she became desperate. I think that it was probably the opposite. I don't know if Jared felt desperation, but I think he was overwhelmed by her relentless pursuit of him. and at some point, I guess, for whatever reasons, we'll never know, Jared's not here,

but that he gave in and he ended up marrying her. One of the mission companions did tell us that Shanna's primary motivation was that she wanted to be married and have kids. And Jared seemed like a good person to settle down with. He seems to have, by all cons, seems to have been a very kind person. And he seemed like a good candidate for her to be a good father. So I think that's part of the equation too. But you have all this projection here in the sense that Shanna is essentially reversing the story because she can't acknowledge the fact that she was the one pursuing.

She doesn't want to present that narrative because then it makes her appear to be the aggressor. And so one of the things she's doing here and that she does throughout this interview is she portrays Jared as being the aggressor, as being the controlling one. And again, this is all projections. One of the things she says is that Jared never let her have friends. Right. And then she says that Jared was very controlling and abusive. But then she also says to the detective, and I'm going to quote this because it's important, she says, quote, Jared was never physically or verbally abusive.

And then she goes on to say that she could count on one hand how many times he yelled at her throughout their entire relationship. So meaning, obviously, that he rarely raised his voice or yelled at her even when they were having constant conflict. Right. So here you have, I think one of the interesting things about this interview with Shanna Gardner is you have all these contradictions. You have someone who's in a lot of turmoil over what happened, meaning that Jared was

murdered. And she's trying to present this perspective that she believes that the detectives, will accept, I guess, right? She's trying to convince them that Jared's the villain and that somehow Jared had something to do with this, which, by the way, Mario plays into because Mario says, this is a quote from Mario's interview with detectives. This is from March 1st also.

Here's what Mario says. And so this is new, new information. Okay, what Mario says. So the detectives, Fernandez-Saldana, Mario, so Fernandez-Soldana was asked what he thought happened to Bride again. Fernandez Solano stated it was a big speculation, but he stated, quote, you need to get in line if you're looking for people who didn't like him. Do you catch that? So he's saying that Jared had so many enemies that you need to get in line.

But in other words, there's a massive line of people that would have wanted to kill Jared. That's essentially what he's saying. And he goes further and says he would go on to explain there were plenty of people at Bride Against Church who didn't like him. So he's pointing the finger at people at his church. And yes, Jared was LDS as well. Somebody asked earlier. So wait, wait. So, so Shannon's saying, yeah, I wanted him dead, but, you know, I'd let it go. And Mario's saying, dude, don't look at me. Do you know how many people there are that wanted him? How many enemies he had? It's right. It's, it's, it's, and we'll dig a little deeper into this, but it's part of this attempt to portray Jared as the villain, as,

correct, as, you know, that he's in these shady, deserving feelings, right. There's one of the interviews with the woman, was with a woman named Valerie Curry. And Valerie Curry knew Shanna from church and also knew her, I'm not quite sure exactly, but she knew her from church and she apparently had a friendship with Shanna Gardner. And Shanna, she didn't know Jared, by the way. But Shanna would talk about Jerry. and Shanna would often refer to Jared as, quote, a hothead. She told this Valerie Curry many times that Jared was controlling and impatient, that she, Shanna, in an interview, she described Jared as, quote, bipolar.

The gardeners referred to him as reclusive in a hermit. They sometimes said he was a loner who wouldn't come out of his hotel room and that he could be quiet at times. You know, so I mean. Very different. Those are two very different. You're either bipolar or angry with some shady business dealings or your recluse. And like, what is it? Those things don't all mesh for me either.

Well, that's exactly my point is that you that. And so again, like Sterling, this is a quote from Sterling's interview. Or Shannon's father. Right. Sterling said of Jared, quote, he was pretty belligerent. and quote he could be pretty fiery right but they're also saying that he's a he's reclusive and a hermit and a loner and quiet and never physically abusive never verbally abusive never yelling even Mario so Mario presents the same image of Jared and then Mario says and this is a quote for Mario quote he's not a confrontational person so so So his father-in-law is saying he's fiery, but his ex-wife's new husband saying he's not confrontational.

Yeah, what is it? What is it? They're all contradicting each other. And you're a psychologist. This is what you do. Figure people out. Are you getting a picture of Jared through all these descriptions? Well, we're going to get to this in a second.

Let me just. So Mario also quotes, he refers to Jared as, quote, a keyboard warrior who doesn't like confrontation, right? And so this is from Sterling in his interview, by the way. So Sterling says, quote, every time I tried to ask Jared questions, Shanna would always answer for him. Sterling says that. Sterling says that. Every time I tried to ask Jared questions, Shanna would always look for him.

Every time I tried to talk to my son-in-law, my daughter would interfere and interject and control the situation. Okay. Exactly. Right. And so I think I think what's what's happening here is you have a lot of projection, obviously, that these folks are very confused about, they know that Jared is a fairly quiet, unassuming guy. We've heard that from people that know Jared pretty well. You know, does that mean that Jared was the perfect human being? No, he wasn't. I'm sure that in his marriage, that he had a lot of frustrations.

We know he had huge frustrations over the custody battles. Yes. I'm sure that... He's his children. Right. I'm sure that there were issues in the marriage where he must have been frustrated. He probably became upset more than a few times. But I mean, that's different.

This idea, and also, by the way, this thing about saying in this interview on March 1st that he was never physically or verbally abusive and then walking that back. So she walks that back. And the custody paperwork, she walks it back here in this interview. What she says in the custody paperwork is that he was physically and verbally abusive.

Here she's actually giving us a more, I think a more honest portrayal of Jared. And she doesn't, I don't know why, but she doesn't clearly understand that she's essentially saying this guy was pretty passive. You know, this guy didn't ever physically or verbally abuse me.

He rarely yelled at me, right? And then, but then Mario and the family and Shana are also trying to contradict that. That I think there's this inability to really, you know, their narrative works better if they sell Jared as being this angry, controlling villainous guy that somehow was wrapped up in, right, shady business dealings or, or, you know, okay. So again, Valerie Curry, who's a friend of Shana's, she later says that she does an interview with detectives. She says in her interview, Shanna described it as, quote, road rage. The cause was road rage. So in other words, she's, yeah, yes, this is real. I haven't read all of these.

I haven't read it all yet. I'll be with my Patreon. Our Patrions reading all of these with all of you. Wow. Right. Right. But the road rage narrative doesn't work if Jared is this calm, passive guy, right? Because the right narrative assumes that Jared is this out of control, controlling hothead that Shanna is telling everyone about, right?

That Shanna is also telling Valerie Curry that he's, quote, a hothead. She's going to accept that narrative because she doesn't know better. She doesn't know Jared. This other person, her name is Taylor Lees, who is close with Marie. In fact, she dated Mario for a bit. They interviewed her as well because Mario made a trip to North Carolina in March. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet,

and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker's sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring,

and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. And ORA gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at ORA.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at aura.com slash remove. Of 2022, shortly after the murders, and he talked to some people and they were interested to hear what he said to them. But what Mario said. So am I.

So am I. I always love an X coming in with an interview. Let's hear this. I'm ready. Well, I'm just going to, I'm not going to get to the whole thing. I'll get to Taylor Lee's in a minute. But what Mario tells Taylor Lee's, so the important point here is that within two to three weeks of the murder, you have Shanna telling this friend, it was road rage, that somehow Jared was like bumping another car and the guy got out and killed him or something, right? So, and then you have Mario telling Taylor Lee's, within the same time frame within three weeks, he's telling Taylor Lee's that,

quote, it was a hit and run, which by the way, a hit and run, I mean, a hit and run, like, isn't a hit and run like you hit somebody's fender and you leave the scene? Like, I guess in Mario's mind, a hit and run is you get out of a car and you kill someone, you murder them, and then you leave, but I guess. That's just hit and run. Bullets, hit and run. So if you're developing this narrative that Jared is a villain and he's angry and controlling and a hot head and all this stuff impatient, right?

That narrative has to fit these motives. And the motives that they're trying to sell in the first month after the murder are road rage, hit and run. They're obviously not going to sell the real cause. They're not going to tell us the real motive. I mean, I guess Shannon kind of did. I just read it. She kind of told us her real motive.

But obviously, they're not going to tell you this is a murder for hire because potentially they're both involved in that. So what's interesting about her interview is that you, the story about how they met, the story about Jared being this bipolar, you know, abusive guy is clearly a story, I think, that they're manufacturing in order to sell these motives related to road rage and hit and run. And I think there's a lot of projection going on. The other thing that they say about Jared is that he's obsessed with money. And the Gardner say this in their interview as well. That Shelley Gardner actually says, she says this.

I know it's hard to believe. She says, I wish I had just paid Jared. I'm just paraphrasing. I'm not reading. I have her interview here, but she says. This is Jared,

this is Jared Bridigan's ex-mother-in-law. Shelly. I'm sorry. I meant Jared Bridegan. Shelly Gardner, right, is, yes. Shana's mother. She's mother. She,

says to the detectives, I wish I had just paid off Jared. I wish I'd given him more money because I could have bought him, I could have bought full custody for Shanna. You know, skip out love, you know, you can just buy, you could just buy kids. This is what everybody's thought. And this is what they're, wow. And by the way, everyone, Shelly and Sterling after Jared was. killed and their daughter was arrested, they did take custody of their grandchildren.

So Shelly's also implying that she has the same motive. Like, uh, maybe we wouldn't, this wouldn't have happened if we had just paid Jared more money for the kids. She didn't say that this wouldn't have happened, but she implied that if she had paid off Jared, if she'd given Jared enough money, he would have relinquished custody. to Shana and that she wishes she had just paid him more money to resolve the custody issue, which as you and I know, one of the reasons Jared was so upset was because he didn't have a lot of money and he wouldn't, he refused to relinquish custody and he stayed in the fight.

Right. He wanted to raise his children. So it's actually... Not, you know, just with her. Right. So it's actually quite the opposite that Jared, Jared was barely able to stay in the fight for custody because he didn't have money, right? But again, you know, and this goes back to some of the original sources we talked to about Shanna. This is from, again, I'm going to, this is from one of our original sources,

somebody very, somebody close to Shanna that knew Shanna well. The source said that Chana was always bragging about her wealth. She saw money as a measure of herself worth. There was never any accountability in Chana's life. She always got what she wanted. So to me, and I'm not going to reveal the source, she said to me, murder was not shocking because she believed she could buy her way out of it

or people would take the fall for her. Somebody told us that. Yeah. someone did so there you go so who so the question again if we're talking about projection who's the one obsessed with money is it jared or is it somebody else right couldn't be those that own stamping up that that made that made jared sign a pre-nup that made shana eras that paid her when she gets married that gives the family stipends sure there's that's that you that's It's got it. One of the arguments, so let's continue with this whole narrative about Jared being this controlling abusive guy. But one of the arguments that was made, so Shanna in the interview with detective, she referred to Jera as quote, paranoid after the divorce. Again, she's portraying him as someone with mental health issues and his paranoia was, you know, apparently increasing or escalating after the divorce. So let's talk about that for a second. So one thing Jared said,

in his custody battle was that Shanna was putting cameras without his consent. Shana was putting cameras all over the home when she would come visit without his consent or knowledge. And around the time the divorce are a little after. So Bradley Bird, B-Y-R-D in an interview from June 16th of 2022, Bradley is the owner of a tattoo studio in Florida, St. John's, Florida. Shanna got a lot of tattoos after the divorce. Here's what Bradley says about the cameras. Bird, Bradley Bird,

stated in the article he read about an incident where Gardner was accused of placing cameras in her home. His home. Bird advised, Bird stated that Gardner would talk about this while at the tattoo shop. In other words,

Shanna's story was that Jared was paranoid because of these supposed cameras that she denies she put in the home. And here this guy, Bradley Bird, is confirming when she would come in for tattoos, she would talk about the cameras and how proud she was of placing these cameras in the home and essentially spying on Jared. So let's think about that for a minute. If somebody were placing cameras in my home without my consent or authorization, yeah, I'd be paranoid. Right?

Absolutely. If he's paranoid, there's clear, you know, and I don't think he is, but clearly he's concerned about these types of covert operations going on around him. Well, he called out what we now know. She was truly doing. Thank you, Bradley Bird, for confirming. And she says, you're paranoid. That's gas-sliding.

And it's also showing she can't be trusted. She's not telling the truth. She's deceptive. Thanks, Bradley Bird. Keep it coming, Brad. keep it coming. Bradley, we'd love to have you on Hidden Shoe Crime. We're going to talk about Bradley a little more in a minute, by the way. So we're just getting started.

We're just getting started with Bradley. Because Bradley, I'm sure Bradley, my guess is that Bradley's going to be called for the prosecution. So I'm not sure he's going to be talking to us. But so let's keep talking about Shanna's interview. There's other moments in here. So I think I've covered most of the contradictions and kind of this idea that she's portraying Jared. She's kind of projecting onto Jared many of the qualities that she has. This idea that she's calling him controlling.

She's controlling. She's calling him abusive. We know from talking to someone that live close to them that they would hear. I got to be careful with this source. So let me, this source told us, quote, Shanna yelled at him, meaning Jared. Shana yelled at him, belittled him often in front of others. She would berate him for small mistakes. You could hear them fighting throughout the neighborhood.

Right. The idea about Jared being somehow belligerent and abusive and like who, I don't know, right? It's, it's, this is a projection. It's a projection. Okay. And again, these will all be on Patreon. If you want to read these interviews, patreon.com slash hidden true crime. We were able to get hundreds of pages of documents. Everything that the news has been talking about with the Bridegan case, we have the originals. So that's where you can get them all if you're interested to read them yourself. Let me just cover a few more little pieces here. After the divorce, so this is from the interview with Shana. Again, this is much for, after the divorce was finalized, quote, Jared did not want to be in the same room as Shanna. They had separate parent teacher conferences and they would conduct doctors' appointments via phone.

However, Shanna Gardner stated that, quote, she would, that she would, quote, just show up since she, quote, did not care. So in other words, Jared is trying to set a boundary and they're having this contentious divorce. and Shana is saying, I don't, I don't care. I'm just going to show up. You can't stop me. There's this. So again, this is one of those moments in this interview where, I mean, first of all, I can't believe she's saying this to the detective.

She's essentially telling detective, I don't care what he wanted. Like, I just took what I, I just showed up. I didn't, if he said, don't come, please don't come to the doctor's appointment, I've got this handle. I would just show up, right? I'm thinking, you guys. You didn't need to hire a PR firm. You needed to hire a psychologist to help you through these police interviews.

No, they needed to hire a bouncer. Why is this important? I mean, because many of these qualities that I initially mentioned about what might apply to Shana are so clearly evident in this type of attitude, this type of statement, right? There's obviously the sense of entitlement, like she can just show up. There's a lack of empathy. She doesn't care what Jared thinks. If Derrins says, please don't invade my privacy or show up in a doctor's appointment, she'll do it anyway.

She doesn't care. There's no boundaries. There's no limits. There's just this indifference, you know, this to quote one of the, you know, to talk about one of the adjectives used earlier, this is like the behavior of a rich spoiled kid with no boundaries and unlimited sense of entitlement. And unlimited resources. And unlimited, right, unlimited resources. a couple of other interesting points from some of these interviews. Apparently during the divorce, there was some type of settlement and Jared received some money.

I don't know the details of that. But the detective asked Shanna, hey, you know, how did your parents, what did your parents think of that? And Shanna said, Shana said, quote, they hated it. They hated giving him money. So the detective asked, was there any animosity with your parents about this settlement? she said, yep, they hated it. There was animosity. And then Shelly was asked the same question in her interview.

The detective said, hey, you know, did you guys have any animosity about paying Jared a settlement? I think he got like half the house. And this is a quote from Shelly. I'm not making this up. You can read this in these interviews. Shelly said, quote, the animosity is on Shannon's part. But I just told her to let it go.

No. Shelly said that. Yeah. But the interesting part about that is that they're both, right, they're both portraying each other quite differently. Clearly. That Shanna is saying that her parents had a lot of animosity. And Shelley's saying, no, we didn't have any animosity, but Shanna did.

So I take that to mean that the whole family had animosity. They're just not willing to own it individually. Right. So Shelley and Sterling are deflecting. to Shanna, which also shows a really dysfunctional family. Am I right? A really dysfunctional family system. No, no.

That's not us. It's our daughter. But then they're going to make sure that they have these kids and Jared Bridigan's family doesn't. I am processing along with all of you in chat. So wait. So Shelley is saying, oh, I should have just paid Jared more. But they were funding the custody battle.

But it's not they. They are not the ones of the animosity. it's Shiana. Wow. Wow. Okay. This is a quote from Shelley in her interview. She gave an interview with the detective on May 11th, 2022. She said, quote, she stated if they thought about it, they should have offered Jared money in exchange for full custody of the kids. She said Jared was always just about the money.

She felt that if they offered him money, he would have given up custody of the kids. Jared was also vindictive and money was super important to him. That sounds like projection. We have a video of Shelley Gardner saying sweet, sweet revenge. This is, well, I should let the psychologist analyze this. I know what I think, but okay, go on. Okay.

Okay. So we'll move on to Mario in a second, but I want to read one other quote from Shelley in her interview. She says, oh man, you can't make this stuff up. She says, quote,

you can't ever tell Shanna what to do because she would do the opposite. So again, getting back to this idea, getting back to this idea of limits and entitlement and right, she's essentially saying that her daughter is rebellious. oppositional, maybe immature, childish, right?

Some of the qualities we've already talked about, that nobody's going to hold Shanna down. If she wants something, she's going to get it. And there's no reasoning with her, because if you try to reason with her, she'll do the opposite, right? A lot of people are saying that Shelley and Donna would be, Donna Adelson would be bosom buddies.

A lot of people seeing the comparisons. We do want to delve into that case as well. Both Florida cases. Both Florida cases, it's very interesting. Okay, so let's, let me... So I'm saying adult oppositional defiant disorder. Right. Well, actually, yeah, I mean, actually, as an adult,

that would be more like antisocial personality disorder. But I'm not diagnosing that, obviously, but are there some traits here of being antisocial? Clearly, does that mean she's a diagnosis of that? I don't know. I guess that's going to be up to a psychologist maybe that goes into the jail and does an interview if that's necessary for the case. And when we have those and when we have those results, we can talk more freely. You're such a good licensed psychologist.

Never matter. Can't diagnose. Never matter, yeah. Are there some traits or qualities of antisocial? I mean, her mom, her, Shelly just. Shelly just gave me one of She just gave us one of the biggest traits That she's extremely oppositional

Yeah Anti-social not being like I don't want to go to the prom in high school Anti-social as in As in breaking society's rules and norms And Psychopathy Sign Right

As in murdering someone without any remorse The father of your child. children. That would be pretty oppositional. Let's go back. So this is also, let's go back to Bradley Bird. If we're going to move on to Mario, I think we've got to talk about Bradley Bird here. The tattoo studio owner did an interview on June 16th, 2022. This is probably the second biggest bombshell in all of the interviews. And Bradley Bird, by the way, I haven't seen anyone talk about Bradley Bird. But Bradley already told us that Shanna would talk about the videos in the home. But now, listen to this. We like Bradley. Keep it coming. Bradley, keep it coming. Okay.

This is the second biggest bombshell next to Shana's pseudo confession. Here's Bradley Bird. Bradley stated after a tattoo session, Gardner invited several employees out for drinks. Bird advised during this time, Gardner would talk too much about her divorce with Jared Brightigan. During this particular incident, meaning during their night out for drinks, Gardner informed a group her life would be easier if someone would shut her husband up. Now, notice, before I continue, notice the language here, right? Like we're getting back to this easier thing. That's precisely what she said in her statement. This exact same thing.

It's been confirmed. Bradley's speaking the truth. As someone says, Bradley Bird is singing like a bird. But remember on March 1st, when Shannon does an interview with Tectors, that's exactly the term she used. Correct. That she would be, life would be easier. How her life would be easier.

How easier, quote, this would be, meaning if Jared was deceased. So anyway, here's Bradley using the same language, using the same language, which lends tremendous credibility to a statement. During this particular incident, so I'm going to read this again, during this particular incident when they went out for drinks, Gardner informed the group her life would be easier if someone would shut her husband up. Byrd stated Gardner asked the group if they know anyone who shuts people up.

Ask the group Gardner asked the group If they knew anyone who shuts people Up But police officers I just manifested it I let it go I let it go

I wondered if my life would be easier But I let it go Wow And I want to say We know he's speaking the truth Because it's the exact same wording These are police interviews The exact same wording

Bradley speaking the truth Truth bombs from Bradley. Right. He's echoing the same language for March 1st when Shanna slipped or, you know, I don't know if she slipped, but she certainly let our guard down a little bit by saying essentially she wanted your dad. You know, typically. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet,

and then packaging and selling it, usually without your... consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at ORA.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at ORA.com slash remove. Typically, that's not something you would say in a police interview

where your ex-husband is murdered two weeks prior, but okay. I also like what Rebecca Randall says. OMG, she thinks that tattoo artists are hit people. Like, because I do think there is something funny to that because I think tattoos were a bit of rebellion. She grew up. She was Mormon.

She comes from a very conservative family. She served an LDS mission. She gets divorced. She starts getting tattoos. So, yeah, maybe she did. I don't know. She's quite sheltered. So maybe she thought she had the right crowd.

Maybe, I don't know. maybe she's making a lot of associations with the show Sons of Anarchy. I don't know. I'm not sure. Right. I'm not sure what she's thinking. But obviously she feels safe enough with this group to, she feels safe enough with this group to ask if there's someone who can shut him up.

I mean, I don't, I don't think it takes a genius to figure out what shut him up means. And little does she know the Bradley sitting there taking notes ready to talk. Well, I mean, you have to admit, it's kind of an unusual moment when you're, you're asking to shut someone up. I guess the best way to shut someone up is to,

obviously, is to murder them and they can't talk. Right. Shannon's breaking bad. So she's like, who I need are a bunch of tattoo artists to get some beers with me. Then I'll tell them how I really feel. Gosh. There's more in here we can talk about, but let's move on to Mario. So between, I don't know, you know, between

Bradley's statement and Shanna's own statement in the interview, you know, it's just, I, I don't, I love in the comments. We're getting over here too. She's slumming with the middle class people. She's like, these are the middle class folk. I could tell them that I need someone to shut him up.

So as long as we're on this theme of shutting people up, let's move on to Mario, because you're going to, we're going to encounter a similar theme. So let's start with, let's start with Mario and his interview from March 1st of 2022, which was, so he gave an interview on the same day. He did his interview after, after Shanna's interview. They were talking about how Jared Breitigan had wished that he had some issues with the children attending therapy because he was worried. He was worried what might be said about him, which, by the way, during custody battles, when children go into therapy during custody battles, both parties, both adults have to approve it. Okay.

For precisely that reason. Because think about if, let's say that Shanna goes into therapy with the child, right? that she'll influence the child or she can make statements about that might alienate the other parent. So it's really important during a custody. I've been in this situation, believe me. I've worked with kids too. So it's really important to get consent from both parents that if the child's in therapy, especially during contentious custody battles, both parents know.

They know how the therapy is going to be done. They want to know if one of the other parent is going to be in the session, whether they can influence it, right? All those are relevant. But this upsets Mario. So Mario says, on that issue, Mario says, from the March 1st interview, he said, this led Fernandez-Saldoz, I'll just call it, this led Fernandez-Soldano into talking about control over the children.

Fernandez-Soldano stated he felt the kids would be better off if Gardner had control of the custody. Fernandez Salgado stated he wanted to push bright again into a corner to force everyone together on the children. Fernandez Salgado advised they could just, they could quote, just suck it. And he doesn't care if they are uncomfortable. Fernandez Saltonal stated he is confrontational and he could, quote, shut them down if they had control of the custody. Fernandez-Sondonnell continued to advise that they wanted to push for a social investigation. So tell me getting back to this theme of shutting people up.

I mean, clearly he's angry in this interview. He doesn't care what the other party thinks. He doesn't care what Jared Bridigan thinks, right, or thought. This is after the murders, obviously. But he's angry. He's so angry at Brightigan, Jared Brightigan. And he's showing it here. And he's telling us he doesn't care if they're uncomfortable, that he's confrontational.

He wants to shut them down. Wow. Earlier on April 15th, he's worried that there's worried that there's people that are starting to accuse Shana of being involved in the murders. So this is early on. This is within a couple of months after the murders. They pull him in for another interview on April 15th. Here's what Mario says. They're talking about people accused.

choosing Shana of involvement. Fernandez stated, quote, the problem is I am running out of, I'm going to change a word here because I have to. The word starts with an F, by the way, but I'm going to change it to cares. Everyone's pointing out what you've already said, but okay. Well, I don't think I've used any. Okay. Well, we're going to change that.

I don't think I use any square words, but okay, yeah. So, Fernandez stated, quote, the problem is I am running out of cares to give. And I am very petty. That's a direct quote from Mario. Fernando stated, Fernandez stated he was going to go on Facebook live and, quote, let her, Kirsten, let her, Kirsten,

have it because I want to shut her up. I'm seeing a pattern. Are you seeing a pattern? These two are not needing a PR firm. They are needing so much more. Well, they need an arrest, which has happened. But wow. I'm seeing a pattern.

They really want to shut Jared up. Wow. Wow. Wow. These are things that they're saying in police interview. So think about this. They're saying this on the record, on tape, during police interviews, during police interrogations.

I mean, you know, I don't know what the prosecution's going to do with this stuff, but if I was an attorney, I'm sure I'd start pulling out these little tidbits. And maybe they will. I don't know, maybe they will, but to start making a case that these types of attitudes are at the very least problematic.

Someone's saying it's not stamping up, it shut it up. Oh, I think we're a little, sorry, everyone. Okay, it's fun to laugh at criminals sometimes. If you don't laugh, you cry. Okay. Now I'm going to go, I think, I don't know if I should go down this path. So, all right, let's go down.

That's like, that's like a, I don't know if I should. Let's do it. Saturday night. It's hidden. What's going on this path? I'm going to be careful. I'm going to try to be cautious here because, because this is speculation.

There's a lot of speculation. But I think there's a question here. Actually, before you continue, before you continue, C.C. is asking, John, please read it again. She missed who was speaking. We set the stage, read over time, and then let's move on to what you have.

This is Mario Fernandez's interview on April 15th with a police detective. Is that what she's referring to, C.C.? Okay. So Mario is doing a follow-up interview here on April 15th, and he's concerned that, quote, he's concerned especially about Kirsten Brightigan, that she's making public statements that he perceives to be affecting the business

of Shanna's parents as well as their bakery business. He's worried that people are starting to accuse Shanna of being involved in the murders. Here's what he says. in response to the detect, in response to this topic, he says, Fernandez stated, quote, the problem is, I am running out of cares to give, and I am very petty. Continuing, Fernandez stated he was going to go on Facebook live and, quote, let her, meaning Kirsten, I'm going to let her have it because I want her to shut up, unquote. So Jared's widow, he is threatening Jared's widow.

the mother of Jared's two children, speaking out because her husband's been gunned down in front of their two-year-old. He says he's ready and that he's going to shut her up. He has concerns clearly that Kirsten is affecting the family business, meaning stamping up, and he's affecting their, at the time, they were still operating their cookie business.

Wasn't it a baking company? Shannon made cookies and delivered them Right, we've got crafting and stamping and cooking. Well, no, Shanna specifically had a bakery business where she made cookies. It's affecting their business. It's affecting their income, even though clearly that Shanna never had to worry about her income because her family helped her. But he's frustrated. He's angry.

I think he's especially angry over the fact that people are on to the possibility that perhaps he, and Shana and whoever else was involved in this heinous murder. I think he's probably frustrated and surprised that people are already starting to think about who the suspects are, and he's probably worried that he might be one of those suspects. Sherry said it's always good to tell people who you're interviewing for murder, the police, that you're very petty. right it's just

I know I mean so when you go in and you do an interview like this there's so many ways in which he's showing us who he is he's angry he's impulsive

right all the things that you would expect from someone who might be involved in this type of scheme he's showing us clearly that he's more than capable of participating in their murder. So at some point I would like to see the actual video. I don't think those have been released yet, but it would be interesting to see the actual video interviews with Mario

to look at his affect and to see just how angry he really is. It is. It's interesting. And I just want to point out the contradiction why I said, God, we've got stamping and crafting and cooking. It sounds like summer camp, yet here we're, are getting interviewed by police. Like, it's just, it's just so the contradiction is, I think that's what I was trying to point out, like, the irony of all this.

Let's get into Mario a little bit. On one of our earlier shows, I talked about that Mario had some incidents, he owned a pit bull or maybe pit bull. I think just one pit bull. I don't remember the number, but, and I'm not denigrating pit bulls, by the way, for all you dog lovers, but Mario would use his pit bull to, intimidate some of the neighbors. One of the neighbors in particular was feeding some stray cats and he went over to the neighbor with his pit bull and really frightened

her and I think the pit bull may have chased the cats off. But anyway, the neighbor reported it. I don't remember if any charges were brought, but I think there may have been some charges on that. Police were called for sure. Police were called. Okay. So the reason I mentioned that is because there appears to be some criminal history with Mario, although we don't have, we're not privy to that. So I can't really, I wish I could see that.

If I was doing a formal forensic interview with Mario, I would have access to his entire criminal history, including any juvenile record. I don't have that. Clearly, I'm not doing an informal interview with him, but we do have these interviews. Let me refer you to Megan Travestino, who gave an interview with police on March 17th of 2022.

She knew, she was, I don't know if I would say friends, but she knew Mario through a mutual friend. She also knew Shana Gardner. And she stated, she described Mario as, quote, hyper, and he had an intense presence. She stated that Solano would never be anyone she would invite to her house. Obviously, she's a little intimidated by Mario. But that's not my real interest in this interview. My interest is the next part. Okay.

The reason I'm doing this is because one of the things we know about Jared is that he was extremely concerned that Mario, who was someone he didn't trust, he was very concerned that Mario was around his children all the time. And then he had no control over that. Because Jared believed or heard from his kids that Mario could be aggressive, that Mario could be punitive, right?

There were qualities about Mario that he was very concerned with. And so the reason I'm going to read this next story, I'm sorry, not story, but this next statement from Megan Travestino is because I want to show potentially that Jared's concerns were more than warranted. Putting aside the pit bull incident I just described, listen to this. Okay. Travestino would go on to explain an incident involving Gardner and Saldana at a Christmas party for the gym. The gym meaning that Travestino worked out at the same gym.

And they met at the gym. Right. Mario and Shana Gardner met at the gym. Travisino explained Saldana and Gardner drove her friend Chelsea back to their house. Chelsea was intoxicated at this time and Chelsea's brother was unable to reach her by cell phone Once Chelsea's brother found where she was located He drove to Gardner's house Okay

Once Chelsea's brother arrived Chelsea was currently at Gardner's house And she was naked when her brother arrived So Donna informed Chelsea That there was a video of her naked And he was not going to give it to her What? I don't know exactly what happened here,

but clearly Megan, who's recounting this incident, is more than a little concern that her friend, Chelsea, is inebriated, and her brother, obviously concerned about his sister, goes over to the home, finds his sister naked, with Mario lingering by her side, with apparently some video that was taken of her that he won't release. And now he's taunting her with it.

And he's, right. So what? I mean, I don't know. What happened here? You can't, if anything sexual occurred and Chelsea's really intoxicated, I mean, I don't know her level of intoxication, but clearly this is like starting to,

this is starting to move in the direction of some type of, some type of sex. sexual assault. I don't, I don't, I'm speculating. You'd have to obviously talk to the brother. You'd have to talk to Chelsea and see what she remembers. But clearly there's something, there's something going on here that's out of the norm. It's very, very concerning. And so when, when Jared expresses concerns about having his kids alone with Mario, that's not pure fantasy. That's justifiable 110%.

So, again, that's not about Jared and Chris, Kirsten being controlling right there. Right. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I don't know what happened in this incident, but I mean, as someone who's worked with a lot of these types of sex crimes, it certainly raises a lot of red flags, right? So I don't know. It's a peculiar story to tell, especially for someone who's intoxicated and then is naked in the home. I mean, what? I don't know. Right. It does sound like an assault happened.

I don't know if the police investigated. I know nothing about this incident other than what I just read, but I can tell you that having read that and Mario's defiance and Mario's attitude in general, this is a problematic story to me. And again, and then you wonder why Jared was fighting for custody so you can understand that too. And money isn't going to buy Jared, probably, because he's a good father and he wants to have some custody of his kids. This is frightening. So that was another interesting little tidbit from all these interviews.

There's so many moments like this in these documents that, you know, it's really interesting to kind of pick up, you know, and of course I'm going to see them differently than other people. But to me, these moments and these incidents and these descriptions start telling us a different story or more detailed story than we've heard previously because we've only kind of scratched the surface. But now I think we're starting to drill down a little bit and get a bitter picture of what's going on and motivations and who these people are and what's driving them. Here's the next big question I want to raise. and that is, why did Mario marry Shana Gardner? Yeah.

I think that's a big part of this puzzle. And I'm going to... From very different backgrounds. He's very different than Jared. I think it's, yeah, why did they get married? He was the maintenance worker at the gym. She worked out at this gym. She had had an affair with her personal trainer.

She filed for divorce from Jared. The personal trainer was no longer interested. She meets Mario. It was a very fast whirlwind romance. They get married. It's an unusual pairing. Why, Dr. John? Why?

Well, Shanna and Mario kind of say the same things, that they weren't really in love. They weren't really necessarily attracted to each other. I'm not going to pull out all the statements where they say that, but this is from Mario's interview, April 15th. He said, quote, their chemistry, meaning his chemistry with Shana, their chemistry is divided and they had different styles on how to raise kids. You know, and Shanna says this is the same thing, that they really, they hit it off, but it's

not clear why they're getting married. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it. usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker's sites and

keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. Orra gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove. Right, because there's no, there's no chemistry, there's not a lot of attraction.

don't have similar backgrounds. It's a peculiar situation, right? But I think knowing the answer to that question is going to be important in this case. So here's what Mario says. When he talks about them getting divorced, he confirmed that they were getting divorced. This is in 2022. I don't know exactly when they got divorced, by the way. But the detective...

I didn't know that until tonight that they actually were divorced. So that's new. That's a new update. I believe they were, yeah, I don't have the exact date. But so the detective is asking about the divorce. He confirms it. And then Mario says, he stated that, quote, they only got married so he could help with the kids while they were dating.

Let me repeat that. They only got married so he could help with the kids while they were dating. What? So let's. Wait. So let's impact that a little bit, right? I think, so part of what he's saying, I think, is that the Gardner family, the parents, Shelley and Sterling, they didn't want this guy, this stranger to them around the kids, I assume,

they didn't want this stranger around the kids without more of a commitment. Yeah. So there appears to have been obviously some lack of trust going on. I think some of this may have been driven by the family. I don't know, but, but they're, Shanna says the same thing, by the way, that they got married because she needed help with the children, and apparently he could provide it,

which maybe that's the reason. I don't know. It seems like a peculiar reason to get married, but that's the reason they're giving. Some people are claiming they're still married, but separated by the way. Well, clearly they're separated. They're behind bars, but who knows?

They both said they were getting divorced. Some custody agreements limit contact until you're legally married, C.C. says. I mean, this, again, I'm going to point out that I don't, the direction I'm going here is vague. And this is very speculative. I'm going to leave it to our gems to fill in the blanks here. But I'm going to open up some pathways and I'm going to let them go down them because I, we need to answer that question. about why they got married because there's no apparent reason why they should get married. Right. Someone's like, she could have hired a nanny.

Right. She could have hired a nanny. Exactly. Right. She could have let Jared and his new wife Kirsten watch them more. Right. Let's try to answer this question. Keep in mind, by the way, that when we go down these alleys here, remember that Shelley and Sterling are arguing that Jared only wants the money. He's a gold digger, and that is the only reason he married Shanna Gardner. So this is an interview with Brett Parrish from May 12, 2022. Brett Parrish is, apparently, is a guy who hired Mario to help with some, he owns a roofing company, and he helped, Mario was an employee for maybe a part-time employee.

It's not entirely clear, but Mario helped him with his, company. He also helped him get a job as a maintenance worker at the gym, the CrossFit gym where they met, where he met Shanna. Okay. So Brent Parrish is asked by the detective, he was asked, did Mario ever say how he could afford his Porsche? So apparently Mario was driving a Porsche, which I don't, you know, I don't, I don't, you and I aren't big on cars, right? Like our car's 11 years, Our car is 12 years old and held together by duct tape. So we don't really... I just replaced our windshield that was so cracked.

It looked like a snowflake. And it had been a couple of years of it just kind of growing. And I felt like I was giving away an old friend when I replaced that windshield. I was like, ah. The point is that cars aren't that important to us. And I don't know how much a portion costs, but I don't know. Let's say 75,000, maybe more. I guess it depends on the type of car.

but apparently Mario drives a Porsche. Presumably, if you're a maintenance worker at a gym, you're not going to drive. I don't know any maintenance workers at a gym that drive Porsche's, but I don't know. Maybe he's got some side gigs we don't know about. Brent was asked, how could Mario afford a Porsche? He said, quote,

Mario was getting disability from the military, and he was trying to get 100% disability. Okay, so let's stop there for a second. Let's stop there for a second. He was trying to get 100% disability from the military. That's not sketchy. Let's stop there. First of all, I've worked for the VA.

It's been a long time, but I've worked for the VA, and I know what disability is. I know how much it pays. I know about service connection. And, you know, I don't know a lot of vets at the VA worked for the drove Porsches. I think maybe a few did. you know, maybe a few of the higher level officers,

but there's something else. So I'm going to go back to an interview with Taylor Lee's that I mentioned earlier. This interview was in July 8th, 2022. She tells us that she believed, so she dated Mario. She was very well. Taylor tells us that she believed that Mario left the military because, quote, he got kicked out, unquote. So she also tells us that Mario was a drill instructor in the military.

But putting that, I think that explains a lot, by the way, but we're not going to get to that. But it's not even clear that Mario would be eligible for disability because if he was kicked out of the military, I mean, maybe if he had an honorable discharge, I guess that's possible. he might get disability, but if he was dishonorably discharged, which is completely conceivable, then he wouldn't get any money from the military. Or he, okay, it depends on the circumstance and when he was in,

it depends on a lot of things. He might get some disability, but certainly not enough to get a Porsche. So Brent goes on. He says, quote, he also had a side security job in Miami. He stated, Mario, meaning Mario stated he was also, this is the most important part,

Mario stated, he told Brent, he stated he was also trying to get Shanna to be his, quote, caretaker. So he could get money from the military as well. So when he uses the term caretaker, I take it to mean, I take it that Mario sees Shanna as, I don't think caretakers the right term here. So he's trying to, he's trying to get money for, for Shana to be a kid. caretaker, but obviously there's another, I think the caretaker he means in the sense of giving him money, supporting him. In addition to the military money, right, I think that it goes beyond that.

Which brings us to the next part. This is going to return us to Taylor Lees. So. Taylor is the ex-girlfriend or the once the woman. Taylor is an ex-girlfriend. The girl who goes. got away. The girl who got away. Are we getting closer to answering this question about why would Shannon marry Mario or why would Mario marry Shanna? So here we go. So Taylor, I'm going to read from this interview, quote, Saldana mentioned he worked out a contract through Gardner's family to marry her. Saldana mentioned this contract in early 2021. Wait, wait, wait, a contract to marry Shanna?

There was a contract to marry Shanna. There was a contract to Mayor, according to Taylor Lees, Solana had confided in her that there was a contract, which sounds like a legal financial contract. Are we talking a pre-up? We're not talking, no, we're not talking pre-nup. This is separate. Okay, because Jared and Shana had a pre-up.

Right, no, this is not a pre-up. they were married in 2018. There was a pre-up in 2018. In 2021, the family provided a contract through the Gardner family to marry her. And I don't know. It's a little peculiar because I think they were married in 2018, but there's some contract out there, according to Mario,

who's confiding in one of his close friends, Taylor Lees, who, by the way, after, when he's getting divorced from Shanna, he's trying to develop a relationship again with her leaves. She says that. So he's showing some romantic interest in her. So once, okay,

so he's like, oh, maybe Taylor was the girl that got away. I'm going back, and I'm going to let her know about the contract that I had from the Gardner family. Married their daughter. Go on. There's a contract to the Gardner family,

even though they're married. that Mario mentioned the contract to her in early 2021, but the contract could have been executed around the time they were married in 2018. However, I don't believe it's a pre-up because she talks about that separately. The pre-nup was separate. That's a whole other thing. Here's the part that's most interesting. So there's this contract with the family, which, by the way, I don't think,

if a pre-up would involve Shana, I guess the family could be a part of that. Sure, certainly. But here's the most fascinating. part of this statement, quote, Lee's speculated, so this is speculation, but still, quote, Lee's speculated Saldana was providing protection from Gardner's ex-husband. Wait, the contract from the Gardner family was for Mario to provide protection to Shanna from Jared. Is that what she's saying? I think what she's saying is, and again, I don't know.

I would need some clarification, but what I take her to be saying is that the Gardner family gave provided a contract to Mario for something. I don't know what. Not a pre-nop. Presumably some type of financial arrangement that involved some element of protection from Gardner's ex-husband, obviously Jared.

So what is that mean? What is, what type of protection are we talking about here, right? Like, is he a bodyguard? Is he, what's he hired to do? Right? I don't know. Shut them up. I don't, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm just telling you that Taylor Lee, that this is a crazy little clue. I don't, again, I said, I'll let our gems go down, you know, these rabbit holes because I don't, I don't want to get too far with this, but I read this. and I was, I was got to taken aback because there's really no compelling reason why Shanna and Mario need to get married.

Stamping up does like their demonstrators. Was this a demonstrator contract? Hey, you, you protect our daughter from her ex-husband. And you can marry you can have her hand in marriage. you can be a demonstrator with the stamp of the family. So let's think about this idea of protection though, right? Like, so again, if you need protection,

you're going to need protection from somebody who's, you know, more villainous or somebody who's abusive or violent or aggressive, right? But those are what Mark, those are things that describe Mario, not Jared. We have a statement from, we have a statement from Shanna in her first interview with the detective that Jared was never physically or verbally abusive. and almost never yelled at her. So where's the protection? What does she need protection for?

If Jared is this reclusive loner who won't come out of his room and is not physically or verbally abusive, then how is that relevant? Right? But Taylor Lees, who doesn't know the Gardner family, she doesn't know Shanna Gardner at all,

she only talks to Mario. And Mario is confiding this little, apparently, this little secret in confidence, I presume, that there's this contract with the Gardner family. You know, maybe he's now going to say that this is the pre-up. I don't know. Looks to me like it's not the pre-up and that somehow this contract involves some type of protection.

Pre-ups aren't about protecting. Right, exactly. So what is this contract? You know, I don't know if, I don't know if this contract it would be on the record. I don't know. Maybe it was a contract that was done on like, you know, a napkin? I don't know. I don't know. You all want to know why I keep saying that the more we dig into this case,

the more we are going to keep going. This is why. Keep going, John. Wow. This question about why they married becomes more interesting, right? If you take some of these little clues that they married for the kids, but that doesn't quite add up, right? Like different parenting styles and the kids have three parents. that love him at this point. Did he marry her for her money? And if so, how is that money? If it wasn't, if it was contractual,

how was that money distributed or why or what was, right? There's a lot of questions here. Did he have to do something for that money? Was he offering protection? Was he a bodyguard? I don't know. Right.

And I'll, this gets really confused. He's driving a Porsche. He's driving. He's driving, yeah, a Porsche. And does any of that factor in, does any of that factor into the crime here? Who knows? To be determined.

There is a lot more to this case. Right. You guys, we still haven't even seen the probable cause yet. Right. I think that's as far as I can go with that. Yeah, there was in these interviews. views, there's a lot of talk of divorce. So this talk of divorce seems to have begun around 2022, right? And you have the, so the crime occurs in February of 2022. And then they start

talking about divorce. We know that, we know that Henry Tenon is arrested on unrelated charges in August of 2022. And shortly after, Shanna moves to Washington State, where her parents buy her home. She says in her, by the way, in her CBS interview, which was June of 2022, she tells the reporter, she has no intentions of leaving. She's very happy in Florida. And then in August, when Henry Tenon gets arrested, he's not charged until January of 2023, but Henry gets arrested and all of a sudden she's gone. And she changes her name. So her name was Solana. She changes it in Washington State.

So, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of questions here. There are. Somebody asked if Shanna is out on Bond. Jose Baez did attempt that and there was a Bond hearing last week, Wednesday. But one interesting thing I will say that came out of this hearing. I watched it was Jose Baez, I think, had his first moment of success. Both Mario and Shanna appeared together.

Shana had street clothes on. Her hair was done. She had a blue shirt on. She looked very nice. Whereas Mario was in his prison garb and shackles looking much more like a criminal. And I'm sure that that was a successful moment for Jose Baez. Because if he's going to want to paint this as Mario's the guy and my, you know, my client's just innocent, you know, just an innocent young mom from Utah, he's already succeeding there. There was no jury there, but, you know, it's interesting what's already taking place.

Those are my thoughts on this case. I'm sure that the prosecution is going to follow the money very closely in this case. And that will obviously be interesting. So it seems like money is a big part of this. That's a huge part of this motive here. So, but, but yeah, I don't, you know, the question. Can you argue? Would it be even feasible to argue?

that Mario decided to commit this murder on his own in conjunction with Henry Tenon without any knowledge or involvement from Shanna Gardner or the Gardner family. They would have had to have known nothing whatsoever. And we don't, of course, we can't really answer, talk about the connections yet because we haven't seen the arrest report

or the probable cause statement. But if that's the defense, if the defense is that Mario was responsible, and the mastermind, you'd have to really kind of stretch, I think, to make an argument as to why Mario would want Jared Brightigan murdered. What would be, I mean, it makes sense when you bring in Shanna, but does it make any sense if you take her out of the equation or is it even thinkable or feasible to take her out of the equation.

Yeah. I guess you could argue that his motive was that maybe he had some disputes with Jared or they didn't get along. But I mean, for him to throw away his life and to act on his own for no apparent reason, that seems to me really reaching. Yeah, this is true. The news talked a lot about the checks that were written that have come out. The checks were paid.

The checks to pay Henry Tennant were written for. from a bank account from a company that both Mario and Shanna owned, Mario signed the checks. Just another interesting thing. Yeah. You know, why did Shana marry Mario? We don't know. But we can question things certainly now.

Yeah. And I mean, the reason that's such an important question is because when, in reading these supplemental documents and these interviews, you start learning that they're not getting married for the typical reasons you might expect people to get married. They're not marrying to start a family. They're not marrying because they love each other. They're not marrying for romantic reasons. There's no compelling reason here other than them arguing that they're marrying because he has to take care of the kids. And the only way he can do that is if they're married. As somebody pointed out, get a nanny.

Right. Get a nanny. Fly your ground, fly your mom out. She's taking care of your kids full time now. Sterly Nash said something interesting. Don't put it past Byaz. He threw George Anthony under the bus for his client, Casey Anthony, meaning Casey Anthony's father. It's kind of interesting. But was her father footing the bill for him, though? Again, like, I don't think it would be difficult for Baez to throw Mario under the bus.

fact, I think that would be simple. The problem is that the prosecution is going to tell a more compelling story about the connections between Shanna and Mario. Right. Like it's, it's, I don't know if you can tell this story by eliminating Shanna Gardner from the narrative. Right. Exactly, Shannon. A check. Right. Yeah. A check, yeah. This was clearly maybe, yes, she had a breaking bad because she didn't know what she was doing. Right.

Couldn't they have used Venmo or cash app or something? I mean, a check? Right, I know. I do think that this is a case about money. And I think it's a case that people are truly wondering, at least I am like, what can money truly buy? according to the gardeners and the way shana was raised they believe money can buy anything that anybody can be convinced with money bought with money Jared Mario shana and I think in many ways you know they hire the best well I don't know if it's the best the most well known defense attorney

money can buy and I think that is the ultimate question right now that I have maybe maybe I'm speaking, maybe I'm projecting it onto other people. I am curious, what can money buy? Certainly bought Shana a nicer outfit for court last week. Baez has had some huge victories, but I don't think Harvey Weinstein would agree. So he's not infallible. Harvey Weinstein, I think, sued Jose for his money. He wanted his millions back. Oh, really? Yeah, not surprisingly. And also, I mean, it's the other, there's another interesting question, not just the one you raised, but there's another interesting question in this case, which is this is a family, the Gardner family that is, the family culture revolves around money. They're immersed in money. They, although they don't, they won't tell you that. They run, in many ways, they run their family like a business, right? And so part of, I think part of your question is what happens to a family when money is the only currency of, communication and connection, right?

What happens to a family that's primarily driven by money? I'm very curious. This family driven by money, what happens next? How will this end? Yeah, how will this end? What don't we know? I think we need to pursue that, you know, try to answer that question about why did they marry? What was the purpose?

What's behind that? If there is a contract with the Gardner family, what's that about? What does that mean? I think there are a lot of secrets. And while we've learned a lot from a lot of people, I have a feeling this case is going to bring more secrets out than you or even know. Yeah. Well, you know, the Murdoch, the Murdoch case had all kinds of secrets. I think you're going to you're going to see something similar here as we learn more and as people dig deeper. So we will stay with it. right we will we will stick with it and some people are saying yeah they think they're untouchable i think my ultimate question is can money to an extent make people untouchable we shall see we shall see

uh henry tennon also i want to say you know he's talking i'm curious what he's going to say that's an important part of this too right henry henry talked henry confessed yeah he's already taking a deal so he's taking a plea deal so it'll be be interesting to see if he, right, part of his deal is that he has to testify against some of the other co-conspirators. So we'll see what he says and what he knows. That'll be, yeah, does he know, does he know Shannon Gardner? Has he met her? I mean, presumably you would think that Mario would keep him removed from any access to the Gardner family, but I don't know. Who knows? All right, everyone. Thank you for this hidden hour. So good to be with our gems.

I am going to, so the first thing I'm going to do when we end is I actually already have the tab open, patreon.com. And I have all, I have all of these documents, hundreds of pages. I'm just going to download them onto my computer and then throw them up on patreon.com slash hidden true crime. And then we already have the hundreds of pages of Shannon and Jared's custody battle documents on there as well. So go to a collection called FOIA and court documents. That's where we keep. We actually keep so much there.

Thousands of pages of daybill. We have a lot there. So it's a collection we're keeping whenever we work to get these documents. We share them there. Thank you to everyone that supports us. Thank you so much to our supporters tonight. Thank you to those who gift memberships. We want all of our gems to be members.

We know that not everyone has the ability to pay for that every month, but we love it when people support that. And we're going to start doing more member only lives. I did one last week. And I was like, this is nice. I feel like a safe space where like some random person scrolling who stops to see you like won't judge me as harshly. You know, I can just be me.

So that was really fun. We're going to get Dr. John on a few of those as well. So thank you, everyone. And we hope you have a great night. Good night. Hello, Hidden Jems. It's Lauren with Hidden a True Crime podcast for exclusive content. things Dr. John and I only dare say behind a paywall, become a Patreon member at patreon.com

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