Hidden True Crime - Steamy Texts, Oath Refusal, & Tears on the Stand | Kouri Richins Day 8 Full Trial Recap

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

*This episode was originally recorded live. Day 8 of the Kouri Richins trial delivered the moment everyone knew was coming — the paramour took the stand. In this episode, we break down the emotional testimony from Josh Grossman as jurors watched intimate text messages between him and Kouri play out on a courtroom screen, including declarations of love, dreams of a future together, and one chilling message sent the morning Eric Richins died. We walk through the texts, the tears on the witness stand, and what prosecutors appear to be building around motive. Plus, we hear from the paramour himself after he reached out to Hidden True Crime mid-livestream. Sponsors: For 50% off your order, head to ⁠https://DailyLook.com⁠ and use code HIDDEN. Visit ⁠https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/HIDDEN⁠ to explore coverage. About Hidden True Crime What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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atora.com slash remove. Hello, everybody. Hello, gems. Wasn't today. A big day. It was a very big day. I was listening, admittedly, while traveling with all of you at the same time, we were in chat together. It was a big day because today, on day eight of the Corey Richens trial, the woman charged with poisoning her husband, Eric Richens, for those just joining us. I think that today we got the thing that all of us knew was coming, right? The paramour. We also know him as the side boy, the love affair, in other words. And we got their texts. Lots of them. The kind of texts that make an entire courtroom suddenly, like, start listening very carefully to all the I love yous, that I want a future with you. If he could just go away, yeah, that was in one of the

texts. If he could just go away, everything would be okay. Speaking of Eric Richens, by the Eric Richens lost his life on March 4th, was declared dead on March 4th. He might have lost his life likely on March 3rd, 2022. But today's March 4th at 2026. And so it was four years ago that Eric Richens was declared dead and now his trial. And according to the court, no, not allegedly, there's a text that says if he could just go away between these two. And so by the the time today was over, the jury had just watched, picture the jury, the jury in this case, had just watched Corey Richens, Corey Richens and her secret lover, watched their secret relationship, play out message by message on a giant courtroom screen, and the man at the center of it,

what was he doing? He was wiping away tears on the witness stand. And then one, one text stop the room cold because it was sent the morning Eric Richens died. Right. So tonight, like we always do, we're going to be breaking down the entire day. We will also get to all of those texts. We'll break down what those texts actually say. I'll be reading them. We'll be reading them together here. And we're going to talk about why the prosecution showed them and how this testimony could ultimately shape what the jury believes. leaves happened. It could shape the story because really a case presented to a jury is about a story and it could shape the entire story and what the prosecution is building about Eric Richon's death

and motive and the jury's listening. We're also going to learn a lot tonight about life insurance something many murder trials seem to touch on following the life insurance, right? Follow the money, follow the life insurance in these murder trials. So today is day eight of the Glacory Richens trial. And so let's start with the first witness. It wasn't the paramour, but stick with me, because we're going to get to everything there. All right. So the first witness, let's start over. The first witness today was Leshanna Rogers, who works for New York life insurance. And Rogers told the jury that she got a call from another agent about some beneficiary changes on the life insurance policy. And that other agent was Brian Fekleton. And he had, he had questions.

He did about changes made to Cody Wright's policy. So remember, Cody Wright, by the way, is Eric Richen's business partner. So Begleton had questions about changes made to Cody Wright's policy. Interesting, right? This is not Eric Richens policy. This is Cody Wright's policy, is business partner. So prosecutor Burmester admitted a document into evidence showing that changes were made to Cody Wright's policy. Eric's business partner's life insurance policy on January 2nd, 2022.

So just about two months before Eric Richens died. Rogers explained that beneficiary changes can be done either online or by calling an agent. And then she said that Freckleton reached out to her because there were multiple changes that raised concerns. The beneficiary on-right's account had been switched from Eric to Corey. Interesting, right? So Rogers explained that the policy owner, anyone who has the owner's login information, can go online and make those changes. Vermester admitted another exhibit that showed an email chain between Rogers and Freckleton. And according to Rogers on January 1st, 2022, again, two months before Eric's death, the beneficiary was changed multiple times.

And it was changed multiple times in a matter of minutes. So it went from Corey to Eric back to Corey and then back to Eric again. All of those changes were made using Eric Richens' login and all came from the same IP address. So likely the same person. And who was that person? I don't know. Rogers also said that on June 9th, she followed up again with Freckleton. And after looking further into it, they learned that all the interaction on the account was coming from Corey Richens' email address.

So at that point, the state had clearly laid out what they wanted the jury to hear, right? The changes on life insurance were made through Eric's login, but the email associated with the activity was Corrie's. Then it was time for cross-exam by defense. I mean, the state made their case very quickly. So defense attorney Ramos stepped up and immediately focused on something more technical. He asked about the client ID number on the exhibit. Rogers confirmed that the client ID shown belonged to Eric and Ramos handed her additional paperwork and pointed out that there were actually two different policies being discussed.

One was for Cody and one was for Eric. He moved to admit an exhibit showing the insurance policy information for both men and started comparing the client ID numbers. Ramos asked Rogers directly whether the client. client ID was used to change the beneficiary information. And she said no. The client ID was not used to log in when the changes were made. And then she walked through the login process. In order to log in, you enter an email address and then you have to verify it through that email. Customers cannot log in using anything other than the credentials the insurance company has on file. Ramos then showed Rogers a document that included Corey's hotmail address. That email was a

associated with both Eric's and Corey's life insurance login information. He showed her another document that she said she didn't recognize. And then he asked the key question, was there any information that confirmed Corey was the person physically behind the screen when the login occurred? And Rogers answered carefully. She said the email address used to log in was Corey's. And that was basically it.

Right. So we don't know who logged in. we just know that the IP address went back to the email address of Corey Richens that was used to log in. So Ramos had nothing further after that. And the prosecution had nothing further either. And Rogers was dismissed. But wait for it. So they're just setting the stage, by the way, with this life insurance stuff.

Let's move on to the next witness. It's, it's, I mean, it just gets worse and worse. My takeaway, by the way, from that witness is that the, the state is clearly one. to show suspicious activity and tie it back to Corey's email. But the defense made sure to highlight that there's a difference between an email being used and proving who is actually sitting at the computer, right? Right. What do we call that?

A reasonable doubt. We can't know it's Corey. Just another, you know, solid piece of evidence, circumstantial, but, you know, probably. That distinction, though, might matter a lot to some of the jurors. Who knows? Next up was Brian Freckleton. such a cool last name. He owns Freckleton Financial Group,

and he works in financial planning and life insurance. Vermester started by asking how he knew Cody Wright and Eric Richens. And Freckleton said that Eric's family were some of his clients. And after Eric married Corey, Eric reached out and purchased life insurance policies for himself and for Corey. Freckleton said he was familiar with C&E Masonry, which was Eric's business. He also knew Corey.

And then the state got into the buy-sell agreement between Eric and Cody. And Fragleton explained that at the time they believed the company was worth about $4 million. So they structured it so there would be $2 million in life insurance on each man. So Eric owned the policy in Cody and Cody owned the policy on Eric. These are very responsible business owners, right? So here's how it worked. If one of them died, the owner of the policy would also be the beneficiary. So, for example, if Eric died, Cody would receive $2 million tax-free.

Then Cody would be required to use that money, though, to purchase Eric's share of the company from Eric's trust. So it's sort of the sort of clean way to handle ownership. If something happened, it's actually pretty standard in business partnerships. Didn't know that, but interesting, responsible. Freckleton said he also set up some other life insurance policies for them for Eric, actually, over the years. And then we got back into the New York Life portal. He explained that as an agent, he gets alerts of changes are made to his client's policies. So what happened?

What alert did he get? Well, he got an alert on January 1st, 2022. He received that alert. And he said it was an alert that the policies on Eric and Cody's had in attempted beneficiary change. He testified that Cody's policy beneficiary had been changed. from Eric to Corey. Freckleton said he immediately tried to call both Cody and Eric, but both calls went to voicemail, but eventually, eventually both men called him back. And he later contacted New

York Life in June and spoke to Leshanna Rogers about what had happened. Put a pin in LaShauna Rogers, right? She's important, remember? So the state finished up there and Ramos stood up for cross-exam. So he asked Freckleton when Eric's original life insurance policy had been set up. And Freckleton said a $500,000 term policy was put in place back in 2007. Ramos asked about the email address tied Eric's life insurance account, and Freckleton confirmed that Corey's email address was associated with Eric's login. That felt important, right? The defense keeps circling back to that email detail. Ramos then asked whether Freckleton knew Cody or Eric's specific client, I ID numbers.

Freckleton said he knew that they had client IDs, but he didn't know what the actual numbers were. And Ramos also asked about how Freckleton obtained information from New York life regarding the account changes. And after just a few questions, that was it. No further questions from the defense. And then after he was released, there was another break. And outside the presence of the jury, things got tense.

the defense attorney Wendy Lewis had said that earlier that morning, Kathy Nester had received a text message from the state, from the prosecution, seeing that Carmen Lauber, key witness, Carmen Lauber, had violated drug court. The defense said that they were not aware of this and asked for a mistrial because of this. So another motion for mistrial, another one. Ludworth responded that he wasn't aware of any text message sent that morning. That's interesting. And he also pointed out that about 10 days earlier, the defense had submitted a grammar request to the sheriff's office asking for information about Carmen.

And just a few weeks before trial, he gave them the info they asked for. Oh, so they requested this info. Okay. I see what's happening here. Well, the judge said he needed a written motion if the defense was asking for a mistrial and that the state could respond to it in writing. But for now, trial would continue. Okay. So then we think we're moving on, right?

Okay. No, no, no. Then Nestor raised another issue. The defense has another issue. This issue. She said she had received reports. So it wasn't even something she said. She had just received reports that the prosecution was making faces at the jury

while the defense was questioning witnesses. I really want to know who reported this to her. The judge responded that he has a better vantage point. than the courtroom cameras, and he had not seen any inappropriate facial expressions. Nestor said she planned to check time stamps on the live stream. Honestly, if I were the state, I'd probably respond to the accusations about facial expressions by pointing out that Corey herself has been visibly expressive, right, throughout the trial. We've seen it.

We're watching it. Thank you, Poole camera. He's doing a great job panning to her when they can. We've all seen it, the raised eyebrows, the subtle head movements, the looks that seemed to signal disagreement with the witness. whether that's intentional or just natural reaction, we notice it, we're watching it,

we're noting it, we're talking about it. And on top of that, we've also seen reactions from the defense table, right? During our medical examiner's testimony, remember, Nestor, we pointed out, she made a face towards the defense team. It didn't look like it was directed at the jury.

I'll give her that, but like, it was still visible in the courtroom. And I, you know, I play the clip for you here. So when the defense race, concerns that prosecutors were making faces at jurors. I can't imagine like a state of prosecution

thinking that's a little ironic. But I don't know. Let's check those timestamps, Nestor, right? At the end of the day, the judge has a better vantage point. And I think that's what will matter procedurally. But it definitely shows how tense things are getting, even when facial expressions are becoming an issue on the record, we're in week two. And it's like, really. But it'll also, you know, maybe they're also pointing it out early on to make it so the state knows almost as afraid to look at the jury, right? It could have a chilling effect. Like, don't even look at the jury, try not to show any expression because they're watching us. Who knows? Who knows? But anyway, we're going to have a quick word from one of our incredible trial sponsors.

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received. The application was received on February 3rd, 2022. That's where we all went, whoa. February 3rd, 2022. So exactly one month before Eric Richens. dies. Coates testified that a billing statement was sent to Eric informing him there would be an automatic withdrawal for the premiums. A welcome letter with the contract was also sent. The first premium deduction was scheduled for February 14th, 2022, which is also a little ironic and shocking because she has an attempted murder charge too, right? And that allegedly happened on February 14th, 22. So the first premium deduction schedules for Valentine's Day,

2022. She also testified that Eric had other policies with the company. And one form showed a $250,000 term life insurance policy. Coates explained that the company runs its policies twice a year against the Social Security Master Death

database to see if any insured individuals have passed away. And that, that is how they learned Eric had died in March of 2022. one month later. So a check is issued on June 17th, 2022, to Corey, Richens, in the amount of $251,558,000. That included the policy amount and the accrued interest, why it's a little bit more. And she also explained that when customers call the insurance company, detailed notes

are kept and calls are recorded. So prosecutor Bremester then put up the internal notes from Eric's policy. The notes showed that in April, Corey called the life insurance company asking about the status of the claims on her husband's account. And she was told they had received a pending death certificate,

but they needed the final official version before anything could move forward. Eventually, the company received the final death certificate. And it listed, rightfully so, drug intoxication, specifically fentanyl. So Coates testified that someone from the insurance company

called Corey and asked whether fentanyl had been prescribed to Eric. And the reason that that question mattered in this case or in all cases is because there was an additional $50,000 that would pay out if the death was the result of a prescription medication provided by a doctor. But Corey told him that she actually did not know how Eric obtained the fentanyl. According to the notes, she called back the very next day and again said it was not prescribed and that she didn't know where it came from. And then in June, she called again. And at that point, she was told the $250,000 claim had already been paid, but the $100,000 policy was still under review. Cotes explained why. So that $100,000 policy was brand new. And when someone dies within two years of taking out a policy,

it's considered contestable. And that means a company takes a closer look. They investigate to make sure everything on the application was accurate and that there wasn't anything that would impact coverage. So basically because the policy had just gone into effect in early February 2022, like a month before Eric dies. And Eric dies in March, the beginning of March, nonetheless, so like one month, it automatically triggered an investigation. So if you ever wonder, by the way, about following the life insurance, even life insurance companies know, to follow the life insurance. And someone's done. right after a new policy is opened,

you're triggering an investigation. Just know that. So Burmester then asked about how Corey received the payouts. And Coat said Corey provided voided checks so the funds could be directly deposited into her account. And then after that, the state had nothing further. So then, Ramos, our favorite defense attorney,

our one who inspired our correct counter, he steps up for cross. He shifted gears a bit and started asking about how the company sends out applications, right? Codes explained that they mail insurance offers two credit union members and others. And if someone receives one, they can fill it out and mail it back in. It's something they do periodically, although she wasn't sure exactly how often. Ramos then asked about the timeline of Eric's policies. and Coat said one policy became effective May 12th, 2017.

The application came in under Eric Richens' name, and the assumption is that he fielded out. Like the most recent policy became effective February 4th, again, 22, exactly one month before Eric dies. And that one was issued after the Richens household received a mailer from the insurance company. So Ramos pulled the application up on the screen. The address listed was a PO box. He pointed out that the PO box address was refilled by the credit union before the application was ever sent in.

Okay. Why does this matter? I mean, they're really grasping the straws here. Well, in other words, that address wasn't manually written in by Corey on the application itself. It was already there. So I guess that feels like a subtle. but intentional move by the defense trying to show that not every detail on the application necessarily came directly from Corey. Okay, sure. Okay, well, moving on. That's a good one.

But then Coates talked about something called a script check score. So let me explain that. Let me break that down what a script check score is. A script check score is, script check score is basically a prescription history check. So insurance companies use it to look at an applicant's prescription drug history through databases that track medications filled at pharmacies. It helps them assess risk and verify what someone reports on their application. And in this case, Coates said a script check was run before the application was approved or denied. It also, runs again at the time of the claim, if the claim becomes contestable. So she testified that the policy was approved on February 3, 2022, but the script check was approved on February 4th. So at the

time the policy went into effect, there was no red flag in Eric's prescription history that would have stopped it. We also saw the claimant statement that beneficiaries must complete for contestable claims. Corey filled that out and provided a voided check so they knew where to deposit funds. And then on September 8th, Corey emailed asking if there were any other policies. The company responded that there were only the two that had already been paid. And then Coates wrapped up a few more details. She explained that twice a year in the state of Utah, their company runs all insured names against the Social Security Death Master File. to see if any policyholders have passed away.

So during one of those, just like routine checks, Eric's name came up as deceased, and then after that, they used LexisNexis to confirm information and identify the correct beneficiary. They also look for an obituary to verify the details. Sounds like what a lot of us do when following cases, right? And at the time, though, Eric's obituary wasn't available yet. We also circled back to that PO box address that the defense brought up. And they showed that it was on that February 22 application. Code said that information came directly from the credit union,

and she testified that she didn't know who would have access to that PO box or who could use it. Ramos then asked whether the company does handwriting comparisons or brings in experts to analyze signatures when applications are submitted. Code said no. And then an employee inputs the application, she explained, into the system and the underwriting software either approves or denies it based on the information provided. So basically, no handwriting experts sitting there verifying who physically filled out the form, right?

She also testified that during the contestability review, the insurance company requested Eric's prior medical records in marijuana use showed up in these records, right? We know this. So on redirect, Burmester asked how frequently Eric reported using marijuana. And Code said that Eric reported using it once or twice a year. And with that, she was released. So by this point in the day, okay, the insurance evidence is stacking up, guys, really well. multiple companies now, right? Multiple companies, multiple policies, suspicious changes,

not just suspicious changes, suspicious changes with timing, like before he dies, right? Phone calls asking about status updates. A brand new policy taken out just weeks before Eric died that immediately triggered a contestability review, you know, follow the life insurance. the state is clearly emphasizing the timing too. And it's up to the jury to decide what all of that timing actually means. I think they're picking up what the state's putting down if you want my opinion. But then we moved into a completely different type of witness where we go there, a quick word from another wonderful trial sponsor.

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visit ASPCA pet insurance.com slash hidden. That's ASPCA pet insurance.com slash hidden. That's ASPCA pet insurance.com slash hidden eligibility restrictions apply. Visit ASPCA pet insurance.com slash Amazon terms for more info. Next up was Christina Miller. No, not the paramour yet. We're getting there. We're getting there.

She's a divorce attorney. So Christina Miller is a divorced attorney and has been practicing for 30 years of an impressive resume Christina Miller has. She testified that she has handled over. over 2,000 divorces. Can you imagine that job? Two thousand divorces. Of course, I'm saying, oh my gosh, I can't imagine a job where you're just doing divorces while I'm talking about true crime. So, you know, tusha. But she, she's handled over 2,000 divorces and has extensive experience with custody arrangements. Bless her heart. Most of her clients come through word of

mouth, referral. Miller explained that she and her paralegal have a very structured intake process. back in 2008, they streamlined how they met with clients. And now new clients first speak with the paralegal on the phone. They've got a system. And the paralegal essentially vets them. And then if they move past that step, then they meet with Miller herself. So if you want a meeting with Miller, you've got to get through the paralegal. She knows how to do divorces.

So those meetings with Miller can last anywhere from two to four. four hours, depending on how complicated the situation is. She testified that after the initial consultation, almost every client who meets with her ends up moving forward with divorce. That's, I mean, I don't know. Okay. But there are some rare exceptions. She's had a, so in other words, she has this, to meet with her, you have to really be getting a divorce too. That's part of the, I assume, process. Like, are you really divorcing? Or let me convince you to divorce. So they always ended up but in divorce. She's had a few people over the years who never actually filed for divorce, but that's not typical of her client. They are getting a divorce when they go to Christina Miller.

Divorce is on the table. She also talked about the top reasons people decide not to move forward with divorce, concerns about impact on their children, understandable, religious beliefs, and then health insurance issues. That was an odd one to me. I didn't know. That was like, that's a big thing. But when someone meets with her, she gives them a thick packet of information. It covers everything from the divorce process to what she called a children's bill of rights

to assets, debts, ongoing disputes, alimony, income, expenses, how to prepare for divorce moving forward. So prosecutor Shriverneck asked Miller how she knew Eric Richens. Oh, and we're all waiting. How do you know Eric? And so Miller said, that Eric's brother-in-law, Clint Benson, had texted her in early October 2020.

So this is a year and a half prior. 2020, October 2020 to ask if she could meet with Eric. Brother-in-law is getting involved. Clint told her it was urgent. And we did learn about this, by the way, from Katie on the stand the first day. She testified to this moment where her husband was calling a divorce attorney on behalf of Eric. So brother-in-law is taken over. He's calling the divorce attorney.

Clint tells Christina Miller it's urgent. She told Clint that Eric would need to contact her paralegal Leslie, because you've got to get through the paralegal first. You're going to do divorces with Christina. And so Leslie begins the intake process. And then ultimately, Christina Miller testifies that she met with Eric in October of 2020. So they got through the paralegal. Eric made it meeting with Christina.

Miller testified that she met with Eric for about two and a half hours. guys, that's the long time. That's longer than LDS Church. That's not a quick consult. That's a sit down, a real sit down. She said that she gave him her standard divorce packet, like the thick one that explains everything from custody to finances to what the road ahead looks like.

But interestingly, he did not take the packet with him when he left. So he got all the way to meeting with Christina, two and a half hours of meeting with her, didn't take the packet. So prosecutor Shervinak showed her paperwork that Eric had filled out and asked what impression she got about why Eric was in her office that that day in October of 2020. So Miller starts to explain that he was trying to understand what moving forward with the divorce would look like and how to protect his finances. But then the defense objected, of course, on hearsay grounds, understandably.

Shervinak argued it was being offered. to show the effect on the listener, not for the truth of the matter. The attorneys approached the bench and whatever was said there must have resulted in the objection being sustained because Shrivenack pivoted. And then instead, she asked more generally about custody. So Miller explained that back in 2020, back in 2020, everyone remember 2020? Remember? How can we forget 2020?

So back in 2020, the old mindset in Utah custody cases was still linked. green. Traditionally, one parent would get the majority of the time and the other would get weekends. And she said things have changed a lot in recent years due to legislative updates and input from child psychologists. So now the focus is more on the best interest of the children and alternative parent time schedules are more common, which, yeah, I think that's great. She described something closer to a 6040 split now. She even mentioned what some people call fat weekends, which is more of like a joint physical custody arrangement. Trubeneck asked how Eric reacted to that, and Miller said there really wasn't much follow-up

discussion about custody. She testified that she normally goes into detail with clients about holidays, yearly schedules, right of first refusal, all of that, but she did not do that with Eric. She said that was unusual. Most parents have a lot of questions about custody. That's why she talks about on the first meeting, right? And when they, they don't, in her experience, it's often because they're not emotionally ready to picture a life where they don't see their kids every day. At the end of the meeting, Miller gave Eric a to-do list. She made a point to say she only gives that list to people who seem serious about moving forward. Eric did not want to physically take the list with him. Instead, he asked her to send it through Clint,

his brother-in-law, who had set the meeting up. It's reading between the line. It sounds like he didn't want anything about a divorce showing up at home, right? He didn't want paperwork. He didn't want emails. So Christina Miller respected that and emailed the to-do list to Clint Benson, the brother-in-law who set this meeting up. Miller also said that she referred Eric to another attorney, Crystal Bowman Carter. Yeah, put a pin in her name. She's going to be up in just a bit.

And Crystal, Bowman Carter, had previously helped him with business planning documents. Eric needed to revoke a power of attorney and update his estate plans. Miller told Eric to go back to Crystal for that. Schroenck asked whether that was unusual, and Miller said, yes, very unusual. So here's why this can matter. Typically, when someone is contemplating divorce, they're focused on surviving the divorce. they're thinking about custody, finances, support, who gets what? They're not usually thinking about what happens if they die.

So estate planning is usually something that she recommends after a divorce is finalized. At the end of every divorce case, she then gives clients another to-do list, telling them to update their estate documents because their marital status has changed. But in this situation, she referred Eric to an estate planning attorney before he even filed for divorce. She testified the before 2020, she had only referred one other person to change their estate plan prior to filing. And she clarified that once someone files for divorce now, they can't just go in and change beneficiaries. That rule wasn't in place in 2020, but it is now. So to simplify all of that, what she was saying is this. It is rare for someone to think about revoking powers of attorney and redoing estate plans before they've even filed for divorce.

most people don't think that far ahead when they're still in the contemplating stage. But ultimately, Eric never filed for divorce, right? You know, never did that through Miller. And they didn't specifically discuss the timeline here. She explained that every client is different. Divorce is emotional. We know this. Some people move fast.

Some take years. And then the state had nothing further. then defense attorney Lewis got up for cross exam. She immediately pointed out that Eric didn't originally reach out to Miller himself. It was Clint, the brother-in-law, who made the initial contact, yes. And Lewis asked whether anyone else attended the meeting. Miller said no. Eric had spoken to the paralegal first and provided details past the paralegal test, right?

And then the in-person meeting was just the two of them. And then afterward, Clint reached out to thank her for meeting with Eric. Miller confirmed that Eric didn't want her contacting him directly by phone or email. He wanted all communication to go through Clint Benson, his brother-in-law. She acknowledged that one reason a client might request that is because they're not ready for their spouse to find out they're considering divorce. Makes sense. Sometimes they're unsure if they'll even go through with it. Lewis then asked about custody discussions, including something Miller calls the Children's Bill of Rights.

Miller explained that it's not an official Utah document. It's something that she gets her clients to remind them that the kids are the priority. That's awesome. That she does that. Finances are also discussed, which is why she filled out a child support worksheet with Eric. And Eric reported his monthly income of $33,000, $33,000, $33,33,000. Lewis asked whether that would result in high child support. So in other words, just over $33,000.

Miller said, it depends, but for some people that would be considered high, and Lewis also asked whether Miller was aware Eric owned businesses. She said she became aware of that but did not receive tax returns or business documents from him. Then Lewis circled back to the estate planning referral. She emphasized that at the end of every divorce case, Miller tells clients to see that estate planning attorney to update documents. But again, she reminds the court that is usually after the divorce is finalized. But in this case, in this case, that referral happened before Eric,

even filed. Lewis suggested that sometimes people go to estate planners, not because they're planning to divorce, but because they want to make sure their family is provided for financially, regardless of what happens in the marriage. Was that fair? They asked Miller. Miller responded that estate planning is generally about making sure assets are distributed the way someone wants after their death. Miller gave an analogy. She described, okay, this analogy, she described, I drive divorce as two wet noodles dropped onto a plate. And one noodle is the emotional side and the other is the legal side. And her job, she said, is to keep the noodle straight and guide clients through the legal process. Yeah. And then I feel like in every divorce, then spaghetti just gets thrown at walls. So I admire her that she tries to keep it to two kind of wiggly noodles. But nonetheless, she made it clear the divorce and estate planning. are two completely different processes. Most people going through divorce

are focused on surviving it, not on rewriting their estate plan. Let's take a listen to this clip. And to your knowledge, he did not proceed with divorce with a different attorney. Fair? Correct.

And you said that you referred him instead to an estate plan, estate planner, state attorney. An attorney who does a state plan Thank you, sorry. Didn't refer him instead. I just referred him to Crystal Bowman Carter to work more in tandem.

All right. And you said you haven't done that very many times, correct? Right. But there would be reasons to refer someone to an estate planner fair. Would there be reasons? Yes or no? And that I'll follow up. At the end of every divorce case, I refer every client to,

I give every client a very long, again, to-do list and a closing letter. And at the end of that closing letter, I refer everyone to, or I recommend that everyone see an estate planning attorney to revise their estate planning documents now that they are no longer married. Okay. In this case, however, that happened earlier in the process than normal. Yes. All right.

And just let me ask you a hypothetical. Sure. So sometimes people have concerns about their children. I mean, it's a fair reason that people don't get divorced when they have small children because they don't want to break up the family fair. Yes. All right. And if an individual has concerns about providing, well, let me rephrase that.

So hypothetically, someone may have concerns about how their children will be provided for during after a divorce. Fair? Provided for psychologically or financially? Well, both, but I'm talking about financially. Yes. All right. So one reason someone may go into a state planner could be to ensure that things were properly set up to provide for their family, whether they get divorced or not, fair. Are you talking about this early on in a potential divorce proceeding or just generally?

I'm asking hypothetically, well, generally, first. People generally go establish an estate plan to make sure that if they have children, their children are taken care of, or that if they have assets, their assets are allocated the way they want upon their death. Okay. And even though you said it's unusual, it's certainly possible that as someone is going through talking about divorce, they discover that they want to look at this now. Prior to divorce, they want to set this up. Part one of my question. Is that possible?

I have never seen that, but I assume anything is possible. Sure. And it's possible that someone may decide instead of a divorce, I need to set up a way to make sure my family is taken care of. maybe that's the more appropriate thing for me to do at this stage. That's possible. I think you're probably comparing apples to oranges. In my experience, when someone is ready to move forward with a divorce or when a divorce has been kind of forced upon them from their other spouse, it is because we have, I explain it to clients as two pieces of wet noodle.

And we drop them on a plate. And one is the emotional divorce and one is the legal divorce. And my job is to straighten those out and keep them as separated as I can. Because at touch points, when the legal divorce touches the emotional side, the emotional side is in chaos. And when the emotional side touches the legal side, the legal side is in chaos. And so when you're going through a divorce, that in and of itself is, is an apple where people are worried about what their kids will lives will look like tomorrow

or next month. When you are doing estate planning, it is what will my kids' lives look like if I am not here or me and my spouse are not here. Like is grandma going to take them? is my sister going to take them. And so they don't often overlap because people in divorce don't often, in my experience, have, they don't even really think about their estate plan. It doesn't come up in our cases, except for a very small handful of cases. I understand it's a very small handful, but let me just try and ask once more. Sure.

It's possible that while going through what a divorce is going to entail, someone can change their mind, correct? Decide not to get a divorce? And decide not to get a divorce, correct? And then it is possible that they want to go set up an estate plan, correct? That can happen. I'm sure it can. I've never seen that happen, but I'm sure it can. Okay.

You don't, okay, I'll strike that. All right, but that's what happened here. Mr. Richens decided to see an estate planning, a lawyer who worked who specialized in estate plans, correct? What happened was I advised him to seek an estate planning an attorney to help him with what I perceived as his concerns at that time with regard to his finances and his children. Okay. Thank you. I have nothing further. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet,

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identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at ORA.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at aura.com slash remove. remove. I thought she did a great job. And yeah. And like I said, you know, I think, oh, what a job. What a job to have to just help people get divorced. That feels so hard. And then I realize what people think of what I do every day. So, you know, everyone has different dreams. Anyway, after that, Lewis had nothing further. And Miller was dismissed. And then we broke for lunch. And guys, it gets,

It's good after lunch. Stick with me. I've got a lot prepared and I just got even cozier. Well, well, well. After lunch. Court gets back in session, got back in session. And the next witness was Crystal. Almond Carter.

Remember, I said, put a pin in that. The estate planning attorney. Yeah. Basically, she's the one who helped Eric Richens get all of his estate documents in order. So back in June, 2018, Eric's financial advisor reached out to her. her. And by June 25th, 2019, so this is before we met with the divorce attorney, June 25th, 2019, they signed a buy-sell agreement. That's just a fancy way of saying that if one business partner dies or wants out, the agreement lays out how the other partner buys their share.

We went over that earlier in this episode. So in this case, both Eric and Cody had $2 million dollar life insurance policies and whoever survived would use that money to buy the other partner's share. So Baum and Carter said this kind of arrangement is super common in businesses, so nothing unusual there. She walked through how she worked with Eric. He filled out an intake worksheet and Baum and Carter even reviewed his premarital, that pre-nup agreement the day before he signed his estate plan. That pre-nup agreement made it clear that C&E Stone Masonry was Eric's separate property, even after marrying Corey, his separate property. And another part said that if he died, his business interest would still not pass to Corey. So clearly, Eric didn't want to communicate over email because he was worried Corey might read it.

He really wanted to make sure all of his personal property went to his kids, not his wife, and his kids were still very young. Normally, those things would go straight to the spouse, right? So this is interesting. This is interesting. And this was back in, you know, 2019. So Baum and Carter prepared a living will and a trust for Eric. Both were notarized along with the health care directive. And let me clarify what I just said.

That was 2019 when she did this. But even in the pre-up agreement, it made it clear that Eric's business was his own. He always wanted that to not go to Corey, it seems. And that seemed to continue through this relationship. So Bowman Carter prepared a living will and trust for Eric. Both were notarized along with a health care directive. The will even spelled out Eric's burial wishes with the trust. Eric made himself the trustee and manager, but when he died, this is another interesting thing.

When he died, he picked Katie Richens Benson as the trustee, which we have heard from Katie Richens Benson, first day of trial, and yes, she is the trustee. Bowman Carter pointed out, it is unusual for a spouse not to be chosen as trustee. The trust did allow Corey to access money for health, for education, and support, but the big assets like the home and the business were transferred to the trust under Eric's rules. The trust became legally binding on November 3, 2020. Chirvinak also introduced Eric's power of attorney documents. There was a revocation form, but Eric never signed it because at first, at first, first because he didn't want to upset Corey. And that led to a defense objection and a sidebar

with a judge who eventually told the jury not to consider what Eric had told Baum and Carter directly. And I have to say, every time they say that and there's an objection and the answer is just ignore that, all I can think about is how many jurors now are going to never forget that statement. In other words, do those objections really ever help? I don't know. Anyway, I guess it strikes it from the record, right? They don't get to look back at it, but, I mean, how to make a juror remember something, say, forget that, never think about it again. Anyway, Baum and Carter explained that she was instructed to communicate with Eric's sister. She found out on March 4, 2022, that Eric had died, so the day he was declared, the day he died. Clint Benson is who called her first, and then later

that day, the sheriff asked her to speak with Corey. So when Baum and Carter told her, Corey, that the house belonged in the trust, Corey was furious and reportedly said, what is wrong with you people? I mean, it is unique, right? It's unique. I'll say this. I think it's unique that Eric made sure that the house did not belong to his wife. It belonged in the trust and Corey was not the trustee. So Corey was furious and reportedly said, what is wrong with you people? Before handing the phone back, she thought the house was hers and didn't know about the estate. plan because no one had told her. A few days later, Corey's

attorney, Mr. Nate, reached out and asked Baum and Carter to give Corey time to grieve. Baum and Carter sent a copy of the will to him so that he could see Eric's burial wishes. Interestingly, Baum and Carter opened probate on Eric's estate

just 10 days after his death, which is pretty fast, right? Usually probate can wait months or even a year if the property is secure and the trust is funded. But she said she normally wouldn't have opened probate so quickly. And then defense attorney Nestor took Baumann Carter on cross-exam. Here comes Nestor. She asked about the power of attorney. And Baum and Carter confirmed that the first one wasn't signed, but a later one was. Nestor also

asked if Baumann Carter remembered being interviewed a year after Eric passed and she did. Nestor brought up that she had said Eric was kind and then asked then why he was careful of. around Corey with money if he was so kind. And Baumann Carter explained that Corey had used $250,000 of Eric's money in her work and that Eric had told her Corey had been misusing the power of attorney. So Eric apparently said, she's the mother of my children. I know she made mistakes and she needs more experience. for now I'm going to do what I'm doing, end quote.

I mean, that line trying to paint the picture that Eric was trying to protect the kids while not punishing Corey outright. And I understand the reason for kind of trying to paint this picture with the defense, because not making your wife trustee, not making it so that your wife can own a home after you die, might, you know, make the jurors question, a little bit about this situation, right? This thing, the situation is called the marriage, I guess, the pre-nup, all this stuff. But to kind of paint a picture that Eric was just simply trying to protect the kids because of what Corey had done, taken out a $250,000 loan does put things into perspective, right?

He's not punishing Corey outright. They're not divorcing, but he's trying to protect his assets. But then Nestor kept digging. Bowman Carter hadn't looked into where Eric's money came from, and she didn't know who bought furniture or other items in the house. Nestor asked about a statement of intent in the trust, and Bowman Carter said, that's not something she usually does, but Eric wanted it to make clear the trust was for the kids and Corey. email came up too. So Bowman Carter said Eric had told her Corey read his emails, though she didn't know if they shared an account. And there was one mistake on March 4, 2022.

That's the day Eric died, where she accidentally emailed Corey, something meant for Katie on that day. Nester asked about the intake form showing Eric's assets at $7.6 million. Bowman Carter confirmed that while Eric was alive, he could do whatever he wanted with his money. But once he died, Katie, as trustee, had to follow the trust rules and decide what Corey could access. Bowman Carter had no knowledge of whether Corey requested any distribution from the trust in a year, in the year after Eric died. And finally, Nestor asked if Bowman Carter went to Eric's funeral. Interesting question. I think she was trying to push, you know, bias there.

But Bowman Carter had not gone to him. Eric's funeral. And she clarified that her relationship with Eric's sister had always been strictly professional and not personal. So looking at all of this, let's just go over this quickly. You can see the estate planning was pretty carefully done to protect the kids, the three boys, and the business. Corey had limited access through the trust and Eric's decisions around the trustee and the email show he was very cautious. The accidental email and early probate are small hiccups, but they probably don't change the bigger picture of the trust, even though the defense brought those up. And the trust was set up the way that Eric wanted it to be set up. Finally, after sitting through

a bunch of logistical witnesses, are you guys ready? This is what we've been waiting for. This is what I keep teasing. This is what I've been preparing for. We get to someone. I don't know, yeah, spicy. I know someone, someone we've all been waiting to hear from. I mean, maybe I should speak for myself someone I've been waiting to hear from. The Robert Josh Grossman. Or just Josh, we've learned that Robert Josh Grossman

likes to be called Josh. Corey's lover. Corey's lover. Honestly, I've been so curious about this guy. I did a backstory. I went to the preliminary hearing for two days of a year ago. we have been waiting for Robert Josh Grossman, the paramour, the sideboy, the lover. I've been curious also about Corey's reaction when he came up, right?

Like, what's she going to think? And would she be mad? Would she be sad? Would she be embarrassed? We know they eventually had a falling out after Eric's death, right? And since then, he's been described as a transient. that, you know, they've talked about how it's been difficult to get a hold of him because we've been wanting to hear from him for a long time. He's a transient. He's difficult. They can't get a hold of

them. So who knows what kind of feelings are left, right? I was just excited to see how this would play out. And before the paramour even sat down, things got interesting and they got interesting fast. take just take a listen to this as he walks into court. Mr. Grossman, good afternoon. If you'd step in front of Brittany, we'll get you sworn in. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in the matter before the court to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth is subject to the pains and penalties of perjury? Sir, do you swear to tell the whole truth under the pains and penalties of perjury, yes or no?

Stand right there for a moment if you don't mind. Can I invite you folks to take a walk for a moment? Please rise for the jury. I have a seat for you. Mr. Grossman, do you understand the difference between what's true and what's not true? I do. Do you promise under the pains and penalties of perjury to tell the truth when you're asked questions? Absolutely.

Anything further, Mr. Bloodworth? No, yeah. Ms. Lewis? Okay. Did you bring the jury back? Interesting, right? I've actually never seen an oath go sideways, but that happened. But, you know, leave it to the judge to bring things to order very quickly.

That voice of the judge, that's the one you listen to. It's a good voice. All right. He could do voiceovers if he wasn't a judge. But we like him as a judge. He's a great judge. All right. So the first question, Bloodworth asked, was how Josh knows Corey, right?

Yeah, let's just start there. Let's take us to the beginning, Josh. lead us. Let's go back to the beginning, set the stage. That's what I always say here. First, we've got to set the stage. So Bloodworth's doing the same thing. Take us back to the beginning, Josh. How do you know Corey? And Josh says that he has known her for over 10 years. They met in South Carolina while she was flipping houses. He answered a help wanted at and started helping her with the flips and another the house flipping. Eventually in 2020, just as COVID was starting, he moved to Utah to work with her. He stayed at one of her flip properties in Heber with his dog. He called it

live-in flips. So he got to stay in the flips. And Bloodworth asked if Corey paid him for his help. And Josh said, they didn't have a formal agreement, but she took care of him. He lived there, rent-free, got money whenever he needed it. And she even bought him two trucks. So live in a good life. He said he liked her enough to work for free, but she paid him sometimes anyways. Their relationship turned romantic just before he moved to Utah. So it was a convenient shift in that relationship just before his move. Ludworth showed him a document, Secrets, St. Martin's resort trip information, which included both their names. And Josh explained that Corey got that for him as a birthday gift.

They didn't discuss it too much, but it was booked. Then the emotional questions started. Bloodworth asked if Josh loved Corey. And he said, yes. Did he feel that she loved him? The answer was interesting. He kind of laughed and seemed unsure how to respond. He said, yeah, I tend to go head over heels more than most, but I think she did love me.

They exchanged texts every day after he moved to Utah unless they were mad at each other. Joss said the texts were about the usual stuff, life, flipping houses, and her kids. Basically, what you talk about with your best friend. Let's, let's, I want you guys to watch this. During that time that you were romantically involved with Ms. Richens, did you love her? Yes. During that time, did you feel that she loved you? Yeah.

Yeah. I have a tendency of going head over heels, though, probably more than most. So, you know, I think she did. So that's how we were all introduced to Josh. Anyway, Bloodworth admitted some of these texts into evidence, right? Which I think is going to be really interesting for the jury these texts. You get a little window into the personal side of Corey that we haven't seen in the courtroom before. And Corey, what was Corey doing in the courtroom? Corey honestly looked so nervous when he walked in.

And when they would pan to her during his testimony, some of you in the live chat said she looked like she wanted to barf while others said she looked nervous or sad. But it was definitely a look, right? And Josh, Josh seemed genuine, but he also looked like he wanted to cry as his texts were pulled up. At one point, I think he did cry. he would put his head down on the stand, and then he put his head in his hands, and he even seemed to wipe his eyes. You can tell there's a lot of backstory here, a lot of history, a lot of feelings,

especially considering how things ended between them. And one thing, though, that didn't happen in court, didn't happen, was anyone reading these text messages out loud. Yeah. Some of them seemed straight from a romance novel, romance novel or a murder trial. It seems it's usually one or the other with these types of texts. And the state would instead display the texts on the screen, which gave those of us watching from home or the courtroom time to pause and read them, but no one was reading them into a mic. So, you know, and maybe, maybe I got spoiled at the daybelt trial where we had FBI, we actually had an FBI investigator reading to us the Loewin fire chats between Chad and Lori, another love story gone wrong. But no one was reading these texts into the mic.

But guess who is going to read them for you now? Yes. I've transcribed them. And so we're going to go through these text messages. Let's go through the first set of messages. And I'll clarify here too. Yes, I'm going to do this. We're going to do this. And we've got a lot more to this episode. So let's go through the first set of messages. And I'll just say before the text, Josh and read it. And that means it's from Josh or Corey. Okay. So Josh, when I don't get much from you, I just figure, figure it's because you're doing things that you know I wouldn't like and would hurt me. It is draining to love you and pretend to be an idiot. I don't want to avoid things with people I love. Thoughts or problems. I want to communicate

until we know each other better and solve stuff together. Not by myself or each other, like and love you today. I live too much through this phone, though. I'm tired, babe. I tell you some of what was on my mind today, tomorrow, court, tomorrow, today, tomorrow. Sometimes their texts are a little confusing grammatically that I get it. But I try to read. Okay. And then Corey says, do you want to know that I'm not telling you or quiet about Josh. I want to know everything about you. It's part of being in love. Not tonight, though. I don't want any info tonight. We're good. That one got me. Corey. Something specific spiked this, though. There's something you want to know that I didn't tell you. Can you tell me what it was? I know you're busy, tired, sore fingers,

not wanting to text me because a call would be better or in person. But I will be a all night wondering, babe, worrying, feeling horrible. I would greatly appreciate you telling me. But if not, that's okay. Not tonight. Josh, can't text it. This texting shit sucks. Several things. If you lived one day with my phone, you would get it. Not mad at you. Know that. It's this phone, these cuts too time consuming. I have two hours of driving soon. I have to get off this job. Corey, it's draining to love you. My heart is burning with sadness. have to read that. Like it popped out of my chest and someone is stomping on it. It's draining to love you. I'm sorry I'm draining to love. I knew this would come one day, just was hoping it wasn't today or anytime

soon because I love you. I love talking to you, being with you, laughing and joking, venting, and being overly happy with news I got today, the sense of never feeling judged with you and just so comfortable around you. I don't have that in my marriage. And I really enjoy my relationship and love for you. But you're right. We both know this love triangle can't go on forever. You don't deserve it. I don't deserve you. I can't expect you to sit around for the day the trigger gets pulled because who knows when that's going to be. I tried and failed. I can't expect you to sit home and wonder what I'm doing or my home life or when I might call you next or see you. That is so be unselfish of me. You're right. I'm sorry. Sorry I didn't see it until then. What a damn selfish

and I am. How could I think someone like you would be okay with this for the rest of forever until I pull my head out of my ass? How selfish not to step away and let you just live your life without the constant wonder. Your love is draining. I'm sorry, babe. You're right. It has to be exhausting. And how dare me be okay with that? That mental and physical stress on you, I'm sorry, babe. Maybe saying goodbye earlier than later is better. I'm sorry you have to work so late. I shouldn't have kept you so late this morning again. Don't text back. No words needed. Finish up work and get some rest. We can talk later. Good night. Josh. Love triangle. What do you mean by that? Don't get it. Corey. Well, I'm married to you, me, our relationship. I don't know what else to call that.

In other words, I'm married and then you, me, our relationship. I don't know what else to call it. I'm in love with a man. That's not my husband. Josh, could talk to you right now. We could be great. Not a fair shot. Instead, it's going to be misinterpreted text once again. Instead, it's going to be, let's end this sooner. Wild. Corey, I meant what I said yesterday. I'll always love you, handsome. If it's okay, can we talk tomorrow? I want to go to sleep as happy as I was when I woke up with you this morning. I won't misinterpret anything or I hope I don't until I talk to you about it more. I'm sorry, babe. Josh, it's draining to love you. And that's where he says it's draining to love you. Josh, it's draining to love you. You threw the last half of that sentence away. You changed the

meaning of the sentence by deleting some of it and then you used your new sentence as an epiphany and a reason to profess your love triangle of Eric and end it sooner with me. That's what I gathered from that. Choped liver over here. Corey, through the last half of that sentence off because it's almost as bad as the first. Pretend to be an idiot. I took that as are we ever going to address the elephant in the room and recognize what's really going on here, the bigger pitcher. Profess my love for Eric.

What? That's not what I'm saying. You took love triangle and changed it around to professing my love for Eric when that's not at all what I was doing. I'm telling you, I am in love with the man that's not my husband. That's three people. Want to make a circle with three people? You just did the exact thing I did, assumed and misinterpreted a text.

Josh, a lot of text arguing these two. Josh, if you think you love me now, then ending it sooner will be good for only, for one reason only. Because if you don't, you're going to fall in love with me in ways you never thought you could. That's a guarantee. Speaking of guarantee last night by no means counts as your guarantee. It was not stated as such prior so it doesn't count. but I did it on purpose. They're talking here about misinterpreting the text right here, right?

So Corey then says, you will never be chopped liver to me. Absolutely not true. I had an epiphany of the selfish person I really am. That's the only epiphany I had. The day you yelled at me on the phone, you had said I was selfish. And I was so offended by that. And now understand why you said that and why I felt so mad because it's true. You're right.

If we don't end things, I would fall deeper and more in love with you than I already am, which is going to be even harder. I know your fingers hurt. I know you're working. I can try and get away tomorrow for a phone call. I think we're going to need it. Josh, if you're going to be mad at me, you need to come and see me and do it in person. If you're going to say goodbye forever, because that's what you want, do it in person.

Or better yet, just love me. Love me like you have no choice in the matter. I want to be my best for you. I want us to be ourselves for each other. I love our love. I love you. Do you believe that we could be great together for each other? What did you mean by more of a date to remember? Corey then says, it's also not fair for you in any way possible because I want you but can't break up my family. It's having your cake and eating it too. I do just want to love you. I do love you. I love you. I love our love too. It's my favorite. Sorry, I'm just picturing elf there. She loves, I love our love too. It's my favorite. Do I think we could be great together? Yes, of course I do. You're one of my best friends, babe.

Josh. No, ma'am, I thought you were getting a divorce, Corey. That's what I'm saying. What if that's in a year? You're just supposed to sit around and wait for me? No. And I would never ask you to. Josh. Of course I'd wait a year. If you're coming over to say goodbye to me, you're not invited. Corey, you're the best. The thought of not talking to you and listening to your silly jokes sounds awful in a million ways. Good night. P in my pod. And then Josh says, okay, yeah, there's a lot of jokes about the pee in the pod. So term of endearment. Good night. I was really trying to do this straight. Okay.

Good night. It was, okay. It was peeing in my pod that got me. It's just, and also, can we just talk about this? I just need to take a break so I don't laugh. We'll just,

I was going to try to get this through this first set before I talked about it all. But what is this with like, I love you. You're my favorite. You're the best. If you're going to say goodbye, say it in person,

you selfish, you interpret it. You're mean, I mean, this is like, I feel like these are like the notes I mean, they're not totally because they were just to my friends, like the notes I wrote in junior high that used to like fold, you know, in different like origami and before texting was a thing, anyone else with me? Who else didn't text in junior high? And you'd like write things and you'd be like,

you're the best and this person's lad is upset and I don't know. It's an interesting relationship, you know, God bless him. Okay. But let's let's keep going. Corey, you're the best. So Corey is stating this. We're going to get through the P and the pod thing so you guys can hear the next text. Corey, you're the best. The thought of not talking to you and listening to your silly jokes sounds awful in a million ways. Good night, P in my pod.

And then. So then Josh says, I love you. And then you have to see it. This is actually one of those that was better visually on the screen. He writes, Corey going down, K-O-U-R-I. That's how you spell Corey. And then he puts a little word next to each. It's very sweet.

So, Corey, K, kind, O, outgoing, unique, R, romantic, I inches away I inches away from signing her divorce papers and falling madly in love with her soulmate and then he says good night,

Lima Bean. I don't know what's happening. So, and then Corey responds to that too late. I have already fallen. meaning she's fallen in love. Good night.

So while the texts were up on the screen, I don't know why that's so funny. I think it's the line of being pee in the pod thing that really gets me. I mean, I just did not see that. And that was not on my trial mingo card. Like, and then you picture them looking at each other. Like, she looks forlorn. He's got his head in his hands.

And we're all wondering why, like, oh, he must, like, be really in love with her. he's embarrassed by his tax. No, like now I think he was crying over like just like being mortified or something like the lima bean, pee in the pod thing. I don't know. Okay. So the text are up on the screen.

Josh kept his head down. He looked like he was trying not to cry. But then he like starts with like you could really see how emotional this was for him. And like Corey's expression didn't change much. But like I said, like her face like, looked a little softer, like forlorn. Like she's missing her pee in the pod. And like she's like, I don't know what she's like.

Does she like remembering when she used to be called a lima bean? I don't know. Like I don't know what memories are coming up for them in this moment. But I think it was like their faces too. Like at one point, he's literally crying on the stand wiping his eyes to the point where the judge, I think the judge is actually such a kind guy. I really like this judge. And he's like, let's take a break.

like go stretch your legs like in other words wipe your tears like calm down like because we got to keep um looking at your text and look I feel for them too like this is your texts are on full display for the world like we're laughing about them now here at hidden true crime but but missing her pee in the pod and sweetly being called the lima bean and then that like doing her name thing Corey super sweet super sweet I did that with my eight year old last week you know while at dinner on napkins. Like, it was really cute. Although he was kind of,

he was kind of a jerk. He put L for Lauren and was like, loser. I was like, okay, well, you know, I tried. Eat your meal. Anyway. Yeah. So we're getting an inside look at, we're getting an inside look at their relationship here.

With them there, you know, watching us watch. Next, Bloodworth. So, you know, Limeabine and Pee in the pod. Bloodworth then starts asking Josh about some additional texts between him and Corey. Pretty much just, so like the questioning, besides like watching them, the questioning was pretty much just asking like, are these between the two of you? And then they'd be displayed on the screen. So again, and we would just like have to read them. And by the way, as you guys know, I'm traveling today.

I'm doing like sell, you know, my background was like cell chic. And so I was like on my phone watching trial today. And I was like zooming in, getting my reading glasses out. But we did it. I'm going to read these for you. This next one I actually think is really important. And I think it says a lot about Corey. This is actually the text that I'm going to take to Dr. John and talk to him about.

I think it's really interesting about what Corey thinks of herself. and yeah, this is just like really some deep insight to me about Corey Richens. So this is what she writes to her paramour, to her pee in the pod. No, who's the lemon bean? He's the P&Pod. I can't remember who's who. One of her beans. Okay.

So Corey states, I mean this, like this sincerely, I think is a very interesting text. Corey's text, when I was little, I grew up scrubbing other. people's toilets in Park City at rich people's houses after school. Christmas breaks all summer. I worked for my aunt's company. I was just always looked down upon because you're literally the person cleaning toilets. I always said to myself and my aunt, one day, I'll own properties in Park City like all of these rich, snooty people. And I will never be like. them. Tomorrow I close on three properties all in the same day, two being in Park City. That's a huge deal to me. Biggest accomplishment to date career-wise. It's never been about the money. It's about being

able to say, I too have properties in Park City and you're not better than anyone the way you treat people and I can prove it. Tomorrow is a really big deal for me, for myself, accomplishment-wise, to sit and reflect and be thankful. So I just wanted to sit for a minute and celebrate with someone and have a drink. No one really knows about the Park City properties. They won't mean anything to anyone else, and that's okay. I like the secret part and don't like people knowing my business. But tomorrow for me is a big, big day.

So that's all I wanted to see. If you could find an hour that we were both free to just toast to new beginnings of life and celebrate. That's all. I want to bring out a few things here. Like first of all, I think they're painting the picture like, who does she celebrate purchases with, by the way? It's not Eric. So this idea that she's celebrating the Midway Mansion purchase with Eric doesn't hold weight here, right? She actually wants to celebrate with the pee in the pot, her pee in the pot, the liamine. But I think there are a few other really interesting things. I think this actually tells us who Corey is and maybe speaks to a hidden motive.

hidden true crime here, right? Like, she says this is not about money to her right here. This is about childhood. This is all stemming from childhood for her. This is about feeling less than and like about wanting to prove herself, right? This is her saying that when she was a little girl, she was poor and she cleaned toilets, not just houses, the toilets of rich people and that they were snotty. She also, she judges and puts a stereotype on these rich people. They were snooty. They were better than her. She felt less than.

She felt that they looked down upon her. And she decided that as a child, she too would own properties in Park City, Utah. Park City, Utah is a very wealthy area. Sundance Film Festivals, Gwendo Palos, a ski vacation, the same courthouse now, where Cory Richon sits was where

Guineatho's trial was. And she is saying that one day she's going to own Park City properties, but she won't be like these other people. She won't be snooty. And she'll stay who she is. And yeah, you know, and that it'll be the biggest accomplishment,

a time to reflect because she did it. That this is all she's ever wanted was to essentially own properties, like all these rich snooty people to say, look, you know, look at me. You guys thought you guys were so good, you know, and I will never be like them. I also want to point out the one thing that's really interesting about this case to me, and I kind of emphasized it in the backstory, was the very different upbringing that Corey had to

Eric and that the Richens family, they were well-known. They were a wealthy family in this area, right? They did have an estate and a trust and a prenuptial agreement. And I do think, he was a bit of an outsider in this family. I do. And the fact that she's now telling us that she's always felt like an outsider wanting to prove herself is interesting to me. It's definitely going to be something that I'm going to be talking about with John. This was an aha moment for me. I guess it also goes with some other things I've sort of recognized with his cases.

I've followed it now for years. So in other words, buying these Park City property. to her isn't about money. It's about saying, look, I'm just as good as all of you. It's proving herself. And then she says she likes her secret. She doesn't want people knowing her business, not even her husband. But it's a big day for her, a time to reflect, and they're hoping that she can celebrate with him about proving herself. It's just interesting. It also shows that she likes keeping things a secret and she does not like being dependent. So, In other words, she probably still feels less than, probably in this Richens family, not blaming

the Richens, just pointing some things out. She probably still feels like an outsider, still feels less than, still feels dependent. She doesn't want that. She wants to be independent. She wants to prove herself. I just think it says a lot. Okay. Moving back, though.

Josh. This is Josh's response to it, though. Josh, thank you, three exclamation. points. That's not silly, babe. Not telling me would have been silly. Very, very happy for you. Of course, I'm going to celebrate with you. Sleep great. Keep me posted. I love you. Now, these texts are from January 2022 weeks before Eric's death. Okay. Corey. Random question. Have you ever done anything besides smoke weed drug wise? Josh. Yeah, pretty random. we've already had this talk, Corey.

No, we haven't. I would have remembered. I'm just curious. Josh. Yes, we have more than once, too. The first time was at Chili's. Me, you, and Ronnie. Ronnie is her brother.

Corey, ha, well, what did you say? Josh. Yes, I've done other things. Not all of them. Not often. And you? Corey, it's not a big deal, ha. I was just wondering.

I'm starting the new series, Dope Sick tonight that just came out a few months ago. That's what made me wonder. When was the last time? Nope, not me. Josh, I don't recall. Are you sure? Prescriptions count. Corey. Like years ago? Ha, nope. Well, if prescriptions count then when I had Weston, I don't recall isn't an answer, ha ha. How could you not remember? I have a cabinet full of all sorts of prescriptions, but it's not my thing. Josh, years ago, cabinet full and not my thing isn't an answer. Corey. How was that not an answer? I answered perfectly, ha-ha. No prescription since I had Weston. And even then, I wouldn't take them so I stored them in my cabinet, just pain pills. They are still there. Pain pills and drugs are not my thing. If prescriptions count, then years ago for drugs and prescriptions. For you? Josh, no, my VA prescription. I feel like I took someone else's at some point.

Just can't remember who or what. Too much alcohol first. Okay. So the next ones are going to be from Valentine's Day. Okay. So Valentine's Day is important, 2022, because that's where Corey's attempted murder chart stems from, that she made a sandwich for Eric that gave him hives and made him break out and he took an epipin and he thought he was having an allergic reaction. And now they believe that Corey was attempting to poison him on Valentine's Day 2022. So these are Valentine's Day texts. Keep that in mind. Corey, good morning. I'll call you what I'm going to head down. Carpooling now, then have to run home and make quick finger food for Carter's V-Day class party. Drop off at school and then I'll hit the road, probably 940. Josh, cool.

Corey, leaving school chemist heading that way. Josh, hour long ride? Corey, yep, I love you. Want to be one of my valentines? Josh, my heart is smiling when those three words come from you. It's very unique, different than any time I've heard them before. Those feelings when coming from you bring up different feelings in me. Your love reminds me of how much God loves me.

It reminds me that I, my mom's son, am secretly the luckiest man on the face of the earth, exclamation point, gives me immense amounts of appreciation, gratitude, and honor, exclamation point. I wouldn't trade your love in for a million of dot, dot, dot, you name it, whatever is next best. Darling, you better believe that I'll be one of your Valentine's. Will you be my Valentine tonight? Also, one of them? I'd be like, what the hell? One of them? Sorry, but that's just me. Maybe I asked for a lot. I don't know. But yes, I'll be one of your Valentine's tonight. I was writing this on the way to Salt Lake. I know you feel the need to apologize, but just so you know, I like to see you on phone calls. I like to watch you text and to hear you

read aloud. I see beauty, intelligence, quick wit, cuteness, and authenticity. It's like seeing a it's like seeing a white tiger in a tropical forest instead of remembering one at the zoo. I love it. I like that, though. He takes a core memory clearly of seeing a white tiger in a tropical zoo. it was clearly a good core memory forum and says that watching her is like seeing a white tiger in a tropical forest, but instead of remembering one at the zoo, I love it. All right. So this next text is from February 15th, 2022. Corey, how does Harry know my name to correlate the conversation between Dave and who I am?

Ha ha. I mean, I know you have talked about me, but I didn't think it would be anything worth remembering. Josh. Harry owns 10 doors. We've spoken about real estate since we first met. Also, questions of who I know, where I live, what brought me to Utah, etc. Matt could probably tell I was in love with you. Then there was Sandy. He brought you up all the time. He cares about his business and about me. I am almost half of his workforce. The way I speak of you, eyes lit up, lively, proud, honestly and deservingly praising when things are good, not speaking and looking like I have a foot and a half in the great. when they're not, he would have had to bump his head mighty hard to forget you. Corey, wait, did you just say you're in love with me? Big difference in loving someone and being in love, not in caps, in love with someone. Did you need to correct that? Josh, no correction. No, ma'am. I am in love with you. I hope that's okay. I can't change it. By the way,

we have been talking about whether they love each other or in love each other for like months, now, but here it is. He is in love. Corey, she's got to confirm. Like actually, in caps, in love with me, if I was divorced right now and asked you to marry me tomorrow, would you? Josh, yes. In love with Y-O-U. Of course I would. On February 19th, then, this is Josh. Hi, can I give this Keller Williams check your info? Corey, email only please. KW agents are hard to work with. Either brokerage doesn't allow for them to decrease their commission and we only want to pay 1% but would still be totally willing to chat with her.

Thank you for the energy and time you have put into this. I really appreciate you. And later that day, Corey messaged again. Babe, I miss you. I want you today every day, not just sexually, but physically, mentally, every day when I wake up. I do want a future together. I do want you. Figure life out together if you could just go away and you could just be here.

Life would be so perfect. I love you. I don't know what my deal is today. I'm sorry. Josh. This one was kind of hard to read. It was blurry, but it says something like, you're a mom, teacher, coach. to three, speed reader, speed demon, organizer, host, center of every room, motivator, caretaker,

philanthropist, chef, teacher, boy scout, C-O. So we'll pause here. I think it seems like he was talking about the things to tell the woman from Keller Williams. I'm not quite sure because Corey's response was, and she says, you are so sweet. Please don't repeat that to anyone. Ha-ha. You just keep all those sweet words to yourself and let others believe whatever they would like to think about me.

thank you for giving her my information. I'll watch for an email. You finish work and please address and please address my latest text in a bit. I love you. I always appreciate your sweet kind of words. I hope you know. I think you're one incredible man. I'm not sure what I would do without you. And then Josh says, you got the title teacher twice, but the first was everywhere, but the schoolhouse. to the boys and the second was literally at the schoolhouse. So then later, Josh said, oh, babe, there's nothing more I want than to be with you now, no matter what's going on. I know that a lot of the times, the time we spent together has somewhat of a cloud

hanging overhead. I really look forward to quality time with you that isn't rushed and doesn't have a goodbye lurking around the corner. I've been in the truck running errands, or I would have texted you 10 times by now. Wish we could talk. I feel like maybe you're having a rough day in some ways. Sure would like to hold on to you to do something to make you happier right now, to make your tomorrow better. I love you today even more than I did yesterday. Promise with my heart. I'm a very lucky man. If only you knew how fortunate your love makes me feel, how valuable not to be taken for granted. I'd smother you with hugs and kisses right now.

And then Corey says, Just want to say, I love you and good night. Josh responds, thank you, gorgeous. I love you as well. And I know you're going to sleep so good. So this next one is from February 22nd, 2022, to put that into perspective. Again, attempted murder, allegedly February 14th. And then the murder of Eric Richens, the alleged murder of Eric Richens is Marchons.

is March 3rd, 4th. So this is February 22nd. Corey says, Hi, babe, I hope you had a great day. It sure was a cold one. Hopefully you dressed warm. I'm super sad. I couldn't see you.

But I understand work is busy sometimes. I wanted to celebrate some semi-good news with you tonight. Maybe another time. I miss you. I hope I can see you next week. If there is anything I can do for you, Please let me know. Make it home, okay?

Josh says, yes. It was quite the chilly day. It's a shame that I have to use my fingers and I can't wear gloves. Sometimes the garages are colder than the driveways, always want to celebrate with you. You have to tell me what happened. Before my phone died, my text was a series of questions. What time does the convoy roll out in the morning? Where will y'all stay?

What is their most important good accomplishments or news of the day? Any random ideas or thoughts? Can you share something with me that my curious mind wants to know without me asking? Corey, uh, I have a crazy dream. You quit your job. I divorce and come up with millions and millions. We buy Midway, aka the Midway Mansion, and live in the guest house. and rent out the huge house as a big event center, $15,000 a day like they charge down the road,

maybe $12,000 to stay competitive. And we will just run the event center as our daily job and hang out every day. Race some kids, have a little farm. Deal? Leaving around 10 a.m., I think. First game is at 6.30 p.m. staying at my father-in-law's house down there. Aha.

Well, Carter and Weston's would be. if they didn't have any cavities at the dentist. Ashton's would be how he kicks someone's butt at practice today, I'm sure. My random thought or idea is above. Hmm. Share something with you. Like, what am I wearing? When should we go to California?

When are we going to see each other again? Ha ha. Or your curious mind could just ask me. So that text, February 22nd, 2020, just days before Eric, Richon's alleged murder. And she's setting out her life plan. She throws out a divorce, not a death. But then she throws out millions of dollars, right? This is her dream, millions of dollars. We know that's not coming from Josh. That would be coming, and we know it's not coming from Corey, because we've already learned about her finances. So where were the millions of

dollars becoming from? Becoming from Eric. Well, she doesn't get millions of dollars. So she gets a divorce. She has a pre-nup. She knows that. She knows that. I'm just like trying to figure out what the jury's thinking. So if she has this dream, and she's, she's clearly a woman that goes after her dreams. Look at her as a child. One day, I'm going to own properties in Park City, just like these rich people, but I won't be snotty. One day I'm going to do that. She's doing it. And it's not about the money to her. She's not even making money. She's not making money on the property flips. She's just like, what she's doing is proving herself to her. herself. Right. So now on February 22nd, 2022, she sets another dream down. It's a life with Josh,

the Midway Mansion, which she's determined by. No one can deter her from buying that, not even that horrendous note. The horrendous, you know, the horrendous, you know, seller's agreement that says like, you know, if you buy this, you're an idiot. No one's going to stop her from buying this. And maybe it's because it's not about money. This isn't where she's going to get the money. She just wants to live in the guest house with Josh, with, with the paramour. And he doesn't have millions. She doesn't have millions.

She throws us a divorce. But again, we know that that's not going to get her millions because of the pre-up. The only way to get millions is through Eric. So in other words, she wants Eric Richens, in my opinion, my opinion only. I'm walking through this with the jury. I'm reading all these texts with you. It's like I'm processing it together with you guys. She wants Eric to fund her dreams.

She wants to be dependent. She wants to do this on her own. She wants this stream. She wants to be independent. Doesn't want to be dependent. I don't know what I said there. And have some chickens and a farm and like really do not do much all day, but just hang out. And she wants someone to fund it.

There's only one person that could do that. and it also shows maybe her intentions of buying this Midway Mansion, maybe it isn't about the money for it. Maybe she's telling us the truth there. This isn't about money to her. This is about something else. So Josh responds, wow, that's some pretty powerful daydreaming. Not sure if you're saying that you had a dream while you're asleep or if you have a dream while you're awake. A dream is just a goal without a plan, right? I guess I could just say deep. I'm definitely digging some and all of that. Am I going to get to see the Midway Mansion in its current state?

Is that what you wanted to celebrate with me? Pause there. So who is she celebrating the Midway Mansion with? Eric or Josh? Because she told police that Eric and her were celebrating. But we kind of know now from a lot of witnesses, he never even wanted that money pit. He's really, really money conscious.

We know that about Eric, too. Very cautious. The last thing he'd buy. So I just think that's like a really, that's a moment. Wanted to celebrate with me. Okay, I'll keep going. Am I going to see the Midway Mansion in its current state? Is that what you wanted to celebrate with me?

Does that mean that Ashton has cavities and the others didn't kick butt? I doubt it. Nope. I don't want to know what you're wearing or not wearing. I just know that I'm not there to see it. or be it so I don't approve. Yeah, I'd like to know when you're thinking of going to California. I'll probably have one rack at noon that day and might need to reschedule. I love you. You know that?

Corey, I have been thinking that dream for weeks. Oh, so this isn't just some daydreaming, guys. She's been thinking about this dream for weeks. Not possible, but it's fun to dream. maybe another property when timing is better. Sounds kind of amazing though, right? I would love to show you Midway. It's insane. Crazy, crazy place. Aha.

And that means yes. Ashton had a cavity. Not sure on CA yet. Her title work is a mess. I'm working through it. We extended closing until the fourth, but I don't see that happening. As soon as I figure some more things out, hopefully tomorrow, I'll have a better idea. Uh-oh.

Harry's not going to approve of you moving things around. What you're going to do? I was just thinking of going one early morning and spending a night or two and coming back super quick. I know that I love you. Questionable on your love. J.K., I know you love me. Why do you ask? Still, still toying with who loves each other the most, right?

They're really insecure here in their love. or is it in love or are you one of the valentines or the valentine. Josh says, I wasn't really asking as much as I was finding another way to tell you again. What were we going to celebrate today? Halloween, Christmas, New Year's, Valentine's Day, the right way? One of your mini acquisitions or sales? Did you already answer that question? What's going on here?

Corey, you're so cute, eh? Not that big of a deal. Really, ha. We can chat next week. about it or whenever I see you again. Josh, ah, that's the, tell me even though I didn't ask of the day. But I understand your desire to wait for a moment. I just hope that you don't forget and that the right moment comes. Also, that we're not postponing getting to know each other better. All right. I'm sure little ones are there or really close. I'll let you do your thing. You're lucky.

I'm not in your space right now. Couldn't beat me off of you. Good night, sweetheart. heart. All right. So these next ones are from March 2nd, 2022 that I'm about to read, March 2nd, 2022. In other words, two days before Eric Richens is dead. Corey says, you're so cute, not a big deal. Adam didn't come through on the funding for Midway. Matt did, though. He's going to fund it for me. I just need to put down 300K. But good news is, It's really, really getting funded. That's all. Boys are almost home.

I wish you were here. I want you on me. Good night, babe. Josh. Wow, that's great news. Good job, Cor. I love your name, babe. Can you lean on private money for that?

We'll talk about it whenever you want. Well, I'm super sad. I didn't get to see you today. That I'm not your whatever you want now. looking forward to our time. Then later, Josh said, hey, cutie. Yeah, everything is good. My body disagreed with my mind yesterday. Before I went to work, I sat down to eat that hush puppy thing, and that's all I recall until about 11 a.m. 11 p.m., excuse me. Call me if you get a chance today. Hope your talk with Matt went good. Corey responds. Just got a text from Matt. I just can't even believe this. I want to celebrate with you. Well, Friday, when it's officially closed, and we're done, let's celebrate. Love you, love you, love you, love you. Thank you for always being my support, shoulder, and rock. I need you all the time. Some things I just could never do without your

encouragement. You have no idea how much I appreciate you. Again, is she celebrating with Josh or is she celebrating with Eric, she pretty much says that she couldn't do this without his encouragement. She needs him all the time and that he is her rock and support. Josh states, I love you too. This phone is going to be the death of me or it's going to be the death of this phone. So I'm turning off and it's going to spend the night on my floorboard. Can't take it anymore. Have a great night.

Bye. Little anticlimactic, Josh. But okay, he's having a hard time texting on his phone. Corey needs to get him a new phone. Okay, Corey states, I'm sorry you're having such a bad, sad day. I know you miss panda and work isn't going as you want. To me, you're worth millions a year. I'm honored to be your friend, best friend, actually, lover, your go-to. Life is going to be different, I promise. You're one hell of a patient person. I hate your hard days. I wish I could be there to turn them around for you. Can I try Friday? Give me a few days. Hang in there until then.

Please. Wow. That text, right, that text. We've known about this text, by the way. We have before today. But the jury's learning about it today. Can I try Friday. Give me a few days. Hang in there until I can, please. You're one patient person. In other words, what was Friday? What was Friday? Friday, Friday was the day Eric died. Hang in there until then, please. She states. And then later, Corey wrote, I miss you, four exclamation points. I wish you knew how much you make my heart smile if it could, burst if it could,

love immensely. You are an incredibly smart and talented man, loving and caring soul, most selfless person I have ever met. My babe, good night. And again, the possibilities are so endless with that place for exclamation points. It would be a piece of cake to cover the mortgage. I would never, ever worry about that. I would love to run that as a business. How amazing.

Someone's going to kill it with that. Well, he has me working on his resume tonight. And then Josh says, some honesty, but I do so with love, affection. I promise, I will happily take any bit of time I get with you. But if we're going to celebrate, I want to celebrate. I don't want to keep my myler balloons in their packaging and scotch tape those sad, flat things to the ceiling and return them that afternoon. I want to blow them up with helium and watch them fly off into the sunset.

And ideally, right before bedtime at sunrise as well, I don't want to keep the barcode stickers on the wine glasses or not pop the top off the bottle of champagne because you're going to be speeding without a seatbelt down a winding already ran off the cliff there before Mountain Road in just a bit. I don't want Interstellar to consistent of 90% of our visit. So I guess Interstellar is just going to be like a bigger pockets podcast as far as we're concerned. I want to be there when the news comes in, seeing and hearing your reaction, wanting to pay. pounce on you with hugs and kisses, confetti and the music. I want to be there when the news comes in, seeing and hearing your reaction, the intimate attention of deserving of a super sexy

cutie with the booty, sweetheart, an absolute knockoff of a rock star real estate investor and amusement park owner who was willing to let me have exclusive tickets to the after hour rides, three exclamation points. So I actually love that text. I mean, Josh, you finally brought it home. After saying your phone sucks, you use that phone for a really solid text. I think that's the best of Josh right there, by the way. That, I mean, he might be a one hit wonder record, but that was a text. Well done, Josh. So, but it was a little weird. Anyway, Josh then said, he actually, I think, maybe he was a little too vulnerable in that text

because then he said this, kidding, babe, I 100% respect your time and schedule. And then Corey states, I'm not mad at all. I'm not mad at you at all. Just haven't had a second to text. Give me a few. Love you.

So I thought that was interesting too. Josh finally brings that text home. Like that was a home run text. He gets nervous. And then he's like, sorry, just kidding. And she's like, oh, I'm busy. Like he's literally saying, I don't want you to be busy anymore. And she's like, sorry, busy.

I mean, this is a strange push and pull relationship. Even in text form. I mean, it's weird. He's like pretty much, you know, given his heart, I want you now. I don't want. I want everything. I don't want to be patient. And she's like, busy.

So I just haven't had a second. So let's just talk about this for a little bit because as soon as those texts were on the screen, like I actually really do think that that text from Josh, I do think he was really vulnerable in that text. And then like really shortly after writing, I think I sense that. So as soon as those texts were up on the screen, Josh, that's when Josh started crying. And you could tell he was really affected. like sincerely like perhaps he hasn't read these messages in a long time the judge that's when the judge I love this judge he actually paused and gave him a minute to collect himself before moving forward

with any questions he didn't say dude wipe your tears and move on or you know the judge wasn't like are you crying Josh Josh are those tears are those tears the the judge really respectfully said do you want to just have a moment to stretch your legs I actually thought that was like a really great way to give Josh space to allow him to breathe. You know, he is having his most intimate, vulnerable texts read for the world. Well, not even read. I guess I'm reading them. Shone there in silence, you know, with people screen shooting them.

You know, I'm reading them now. And, yeah, he starts crying. The judge is like, hey, stretch your legs. but Josh actually doesn't take him up on the opportunity. He kind of stands up and says, no, I'm good. And so even before any more questions, though, were asked. So he sits back down, a more text appeared on the screen. And then we get to March 4th, March 4th, the day Eric Richens is declared dead.

So this is what Josh says on March 4th. So this is interesting. March 4th, Josh writes, Hey, babe, how are you feeling today? I'm proud of you. And then later, he says, hey, what's going on with you? You good? Corey says, no. Eric passed away. Talk later. Josh. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. What? Corey, no words, turning phone off. Eric passed away last night. Josh, no words either, lost. Corey, nuts, I can't do this. Josh, I am devastated.

I can't comprehend. I don't know what to say or do. I want you to be safe. What happened? Who are you with? And Corey responds. 3 a.m., I called the ambulance. Been up since then.

People, family friends still hear. here. They think an aneurism. On March, that's interesting, right? So she told him an aneurysm. She didn't say it was, but she said, they think an aneurysm, nobody bought an aneurysm, right? We've been listening to this trial. She asked about aneurism, but no one told her they thought aneurysm. So then on March 20th, Josh said a gif, jiff, gif of a couple kissing, and Corey sent some photos that we couldn't see, unfortunately. We wanted to see him, but we couldn't. We did see the giff of the couple kissing. Okay. Super chat on the screen. We don't know, hey, Josh, if this is Josh. We don't know if this is Josh, of course. But Josh says, it's Josh. I joined about 15 minutes ago. It won't

let me text. Y'all are mistaken about a lot. It's okay. But if you want the truth or clarification. So if this is Josh, email us at hidden true crime info at gmail.com. And actually, you can do it right now. I'm here with my producer. And we do want to hear your side. And right, we don't know how you are feeling today. We know what the texts said that we're on exhibit. it and we know what Corey is charged with and we know probably how the jury is taking in the evidence, but we don't know your side of the story. We don't. And we don't know what you were feeling and we don't know what you were thinking and what you

knew. So we're just stating what happened in court today and imagining what it might have felt like. And Dorita does say, Josh, we do want to hear you. We truly felt for you. But I did just want to acknowledge that you're right. We don't know a lot. We only know the evidence that is being laid out and speculating on what the jury is feeling. So that's what we do here, hidden true crime is recap each trial day.

All right. So at the trial, Josh sent a jiff of a couple kissing. Then Corey sent these photos that we could not see. and then there was a link to the St. Martin Resort and said, and it said, are we there yet? Josh states, I don't know how you feel about that, the visitors. I feel however you feel, but without knowing. I think that I'm glad for the village, how many, and then I made a harbor freight run. Now I'm going to pick up a couple and go get busy, not my performance.

kind of busy. That place sure does look cool. It's definitely pretty there. Soon enough, though, it's going to be breathtakingly beautiful and the most stunning space on the planet. I can't believe it. I've known of wanted to go for a long time. So he's excited. And then Corey states, it's a lot. Overwhelming, exhausting, repeating yourself, emotions all over again. And I honestly, I think they must have been talking about Eric's funeral or memorial service here. I'm not sure, but this is after Eric's death. Just so sad. And then Corey continues and she states, sounds like a good evening.

I guess could be better. It looks so pretty. I have always wanted to go there. Five exclamation points. Josh then responds. I feel like it's a little out of the. ordinary compared to some places. I could very easily expect the exact opposite. No visitors. Nobody wanting to bother you. Especially wouldn't expect the army of heathen kids, except for Ashton,

my protege, going to get some eggs Benedict over there for sure. And Corey says, yes, please, can't wait. Josh says, it's going to be awesome. And then on April 8th, Corey said, I love you, Josh. I love you too. You are in my dreams. I think I want you to be my husband one day. And then Josh responds. This is what he says. I could respond to that a bunch of different ways. I could assume that you are finished second in a few drinking games. I could show you this and give you a million of each. then he sent a photo that said, if you could see yourself through my eyes, you know how much I love you. I'll love you forever. And on April 15th, Corey wrote, I'm going to call this. Okay, so this, this is, this is important, actually, this text. So sorry, I like sit up whenever it's something important.

So on April 15th, this text is important. Corey writes on April 15th, I'm going to call. I had 22 cops searching my damn house Wednesday for hours. This shit just keeps getting worse and worse. Then Josh responds. Searching your house for what? So April 15th, let me remind you. So March 4th of death, April 15th, about a month and a half after Eric dies.

People have said, how did Corey know she was under investigation because we make fun of her Google searches? Here you go. Here you go. They're searching her house soon. So Josh says, searching your house for what? Corey states, the autopsy report isn't done yet, but the toxicology report came back and he had a trace of fentanyl in his system. I didn't even know what the hell that was until they showed up at my door. My attorneys are fighting it because they detained me. No reading me my rights. They never told me why they were at my house and what they. the hell they were looking for. I was like WTF. They had a search warrant and everything. This is so fucking ridiculous. And all the drug dogs and everything and they didn't find a damn thing but Eric's weed gummies. Congratulations, idiots. They were so disappointed. My attorney said in order to get

a search warrant, they would have had to do some kind of proof of crime that was committed, whether it's drugs being sold in and out of my house or me having something to do with this shit. I don't know, even know what the fuck that is. I thought it was cocaine. The detective isn't correcting me. They took all electronics out of my house, even my kid stuff. Eric does not do fucking drugs. Glad she clarified that.

He ate a shit ton of edibles, four to five a week, but rarely even drank. This is absurd. And they don't even have a COD yet. How can they just jump to all of this bullshit before we even know. Ronnie swears the gummies are laced with it because it was a new pack. This is all just so freaking stupid and crazy. So if you guys want to know, like, how did Corey know she was under investigation before the rest of the world did?

There you go, a month and a half after Eric's death, that's happening. So then Josh responds, I have tons of questions thought. I'll save them for a phone call. He's smarter than she is. And then Corey says, okay, call you in a bit. I mean, that was, that was a smart text, Josh. And then Corey's over there Googling, you know, prisons for the rich.

But Josh is like, let's just now take this to a phone call because of what you just texted. Corey says, okay, call you in a bit. All right. So finally, after all the texts were done, Bloodworth asked Josh a question. He wanted to know if he and Corey met up at some point after Eric's death. That's important, right? Did they meet up after Eric's death? Josh?

Josh said yes. The first meeting was about two weeks after Eric passed. He explained that they drove up into the mountains together and just sat. and talked. And for the first time, they were able to actually talk about Eric. Bloodworth asked if Corey ever brought up killing during that conversation. Josh said they talked for a while and he had never seen her like that before. It was heavy and not the kind of conversation he was used to having with her. He described her as emotionally exhausted and wanting to steer the conversation away from herself, which she said was typical.

She rarely liked to talk about her own feelings. Interesting too. That's interesting too. She rarely likes to talk about her own feelings. Stuffs those downs. You are a sane or as sick as the secrets you keep. If you don't tell your story, your story tells you. All right.

Just some Dr. Johnisms. During that discussion, Corey asked Josh if he had ever killed anyone, specifically while serving in Iraq. And Josh said yes, he had, and she asked how it made him feel. He answered her, then paused and added, I took it as not out of the normal though, really. Bloodworth then asked, and I want to say to that too, like, you know, God bless veterans that come home with these types of memories.

Anyway, Bloodworth then asked if they were romantically involved after Eric's death. Josh said yes for about six to ten more months. And what asked what happened after that, he said that they just had a falling out. There were disagreements and things changed after Eric died. He said there was a lot going on for both of them at that. time, which probably led to their parting ways, and Bloodworth had no further questions, which means it's time for cross-exam. But that was, I just want to say this, a really chilling thing for me. Think about that. Josh and Corey meet up after Eric's death. Corey's acting

unusual. She doesn't talk about her feelings a lot. It's not her jam. She just likes flipping properties and taking out loans. And she asks Josh, who she clearly knows is a vet if he's killed someone and how that feels. I mean, what a question, right? I mean, that question hung in the room. I mean, it hung with me. Like it, it, I was like, well, I thought that was actually one of the most important things. You know, we heard today.

Honestly, if that's, you know, if that's an accurate description of what happened for asking him what it felt like to kill someone. Anyway, let's get to cross exam. Thank you for everyone that has stayed with us this whole time before we get to that. So, so in other words, the defense is going to get up and cross exam. and Josh. All right. Wendy Lewis was up for crosses. So Wendy Lewis on the defense is going to cross-examine Josh. And Josh confirms that he and Corey met in South Carolina when Corey was hired to help him with a house, a house that she was flipping. Josh guessed there was a period of two to three years where they didn't speak. And then in 2020, that COVID year, he moved to Utah to work

on some houses with Corey. Lewis then shifted to text messages that she wanted to go over, like all those texts we just read. But first, she started with the confirmation of the trip. Corey had booked on December 7th for Josh's birthday on December 9th. And so although the trip was not scheduled until April 29th, 2022, Josh confirmed that he and Corey never went on that vacation together. And then we went into the text. Between 2020 and 2022,

Corey and Josh's relationship could be described as an on and off again relationship. I think we gathered that in the text. It was probably always a little bit like that. Yeah. Corey and Josh's relationship on and off again, She started with texts from December 18th, 2021, which was nearly two weeks after Corey had booked that vacation. And I do want you guys to hear this. So take a listen.

It says, you need to come see me in person if you're going to say goodbye forever, right? Right. So this series of text was talking about that you may be ending things. Correct? I guess so. All right. I mean, I don't necessarily remember it, but that's what it sounds like, unless we were just being tongue and cheek. I don't know. Well, let's look at a couple. I'm sorry, did not mean to interrupt you, Josh. No, that's okay. Let's look at a couple of more. Maybe pull up Corrie's again, they're the blue bubble. And she says that she's not mad, but you did promise to say goodbye in person. It's not what I want to do, but it's not fair. Yeah, I'm tracking now. Okay.

That sounds like adios to me. So this was, so it was late 21 after the vacation was purchased that there was a discussion about ending the relationship. Fair? Appears that way. Okay. But you didn't end it then. I mean, I don't know, maybe you did briefly. But if you did, you got back together, right?

Or you resumed. I know you were never together together, but you resumed your relationship. Yes. Okay. Let's look at text, or I'm sorry, text, State Exhibit 218 D that's been admitted. And Katie, could you just get to it? So Mr. Grossman, this was about, well, first it was about a television show called Dopesick, right? We talked about that on your direct while you and Mr. Blackwood talked about that. We need words, yes or no.

Okay. I can't see it. Can you zoom in a little bit for me? Go ahead. Please. While Katie's doing that and you take a look. Okay. Yes, she's starting a new TV show, Dobsick, correct?

All right. And she's asking you questions about have you have taken drugs, right? Yes. And you kind of go back and forth. Yes. And at one point, she tells you, and Katie will pull up the text, you can see it.

She has a whole cabinet full of all sorts of prescriptions, but it's not her thing, correct? Correct. And then she also tells you, we'll pull up the text, that when she had her last child, that she had a bunch of pain pills and they were still in the cupboard,

she just hadn't even taken them, correct? Yes. Okay. But you guys talk back and forth about drug use, and it's a fair to say, and it's just a yes or no question, that you have on and off, used illicit drugs. Fair? Fair. All right. Okay, let's move to State Exhibit 227D and pull that up so Mr.

Grossman can see the date. So do you see that these texts were on Valentine's Day 2022? Yes, ma'am. And you said you recognize them as text between you and Corey, but do you recall specifically anything about that day, that Valentine's Day, 2022. I've tried to remember. I've, I don't even know where we were, what we did that day. I don't think it was, it was able to be extracted or because I figured my, you know, GPS would have been able to clue me in, but I don't, I don't know. So you don't even, even though the texts say you met up,

you don't even remember if you met up? I mean, I'm, if the text, let me rephrase that. We met up. I assume we met up unless the texts say that, hey, change your plans. I would agree with you. The text do say that. I'm just asking you if you have a memory of it, of the actual meetup. Not necessarily, no.

Okay. So there wasn't anything about that day that Corey did or said that caused that particular day, July 14th, 2022 to stand out in your memory, fair? No, I can't remember where we were and that's not a... That's fair. It's a while ago. Okay. It's not that nothing memorable occurred that day.

I just don't remember, man. Okay, that's fair. Let's look at States Exhibit 229. And I believe it's the second and third page of those texts. So this is the next day, July. July 15th, 2022, and you maybe blow that up for Mr. Grossman. Is this page two? All right, let's go to page three. Yes, if we could blow those up.

Okay, so this is where you tell Ms. Richens, I am in love with you. Yes. And go ahead. Let's keep going. And she responds to you like you're actually in love with me. We're not just love each other, like friends or an affair. you're in love with me, correct? Right.

And that was February 15th of 2022. Yes. All right. Let me take that down. I want to move to March of 2022. If we could pull up a state's exhibit 2-32D. I think it's page three. Corey's text there.

I can't see unless you blow it up. Okay. So this is the text. and this is on February 23rd, 2022. Do you see that at the bottom? Yes. And she's talking to you about the property that has ended up being called the Midway Mansion, right? Yes.

And that she has a dream that you could. And actually, I think she describes it in the text before. If you can go to that. She has a dream about you to living in the middle. mansion and that she could be divorced and you could live there and just have a farm and a number of things. Yes. Okay.

And then if you can go back to the other one. But then she tells you this isn't possible. It's just fun to dream about, right? What you just highlighted, yes, ma'am. Yeah. So, Mr. Grossman, would it be fair to say that? the talk about a future together between you and Corey was really more a fantasy than a realistic

expectation. My opinion? You want my opinion on it? Sure. I'd say, yeah. Yeah. More of something that maybe I thought I wanted, but didn't necessarily, like I couldn't picture it in the future, you know?

I don't know if that answers your question. It does answer my question. Okay, let's move on to 2-36-D, states exhibit. And maybe we could blow this up and go through a little bit. So these texts were on March 2nd, 2022, two days before Eric Richon's death, right? Or a day before? Yeah, about a day and a half, right, because he died early. early morning, 2022 or March 4th.

Okay, we can scroll a little bit, a little farther. Now, in these texts, Ms. Richens is telling you that she's going to be closing on the property in Midway. Is that right? I'm not to see that bottom one. Yes. Okay. And this is the biggest deal that she's closed on, correct? Correct.

Is it fair to say she was very excited about this property? Yes. And she says that she wants to get together with you on Friday to celebrate this closing, right? Right. And what was your plan on Friday to get together to celebrate? We were supposed to meet, sorry, we were supposed to meet sometime mid-morning for brunch, brunch and mimosas was the plan. Okay. Can we pull up states 238 dash D?

Just a minute. She'll pull up the text. Well, you can't see on the screen. Okay, here we go. So, second, 2022 in the evening, right? Yes. And Corey implies that you're sad or having a difficult day, correct? Yes.

Do you remember why you were sad? If you don't, that's fine. But if you do. I don't. Okay. No, ma'am. That's fine. And she tells you to just give her a few days and hang in there until Friday.

Correct? Yes. Do you, well, let me ask you this. When she told you to hang in there until Friday, was that because she was planning on meeting you for brunch on Friday? Do you know why? Hold on to the Friday or to the last question. Your Honor, the question that asked what essentially asked what Corey Richens was thinking by Friday. I can rephrase.

Please do. Thank you. Okay. Why was she telling you to hang in there until Friday? What was going to happen on Friday? All right. Sustained as a speculation as to why Ms. Richens was waiting.

The question regarding what he recalls was going to happen on Friday is permissible. You'd answer them. The only thing I knew about Friday was branching mimosas. So, and the closing on the house. She was getting the keys that day. So that was a big day. Did she ever tell you that you were going to be together on Friday permanently? I think he can say yes or no.

We're not asking what Ms. Richon said specifically. It's very specific. That question is just. All right. Let me ask it this way. Did you ever have the impression that come Friday, the two of you are going to be together forever? Jackson, found base on how he would get an impression. I'm going to rule that one. Go ahead, sir.

No. Did you ever have any impression that, as of Friday, Eric Richens would be out of the picture? No. And then let's go to 239D1. So this is Friday, March 4th, the day you were supposed to meet for brunch, right? The beginning might be March 3rd, if I can see that. Yeah, I'm just seeing 3-3. Okay, let's scroll down.

Okay, we can stop right there. When you say it's official now, are you talking about the property? Are you talking about something else? The Midway Mansion? Or do you remember? What was the text previous, please? It was from you. It just says, I hope I get to see it.

Do you know if you were referring to the mansion? That's what it sounds like. Okay. You'd have to go up another text. Yeah. Well, let's keep going. That's fine. I mean, if you don't remember for sure, I get that.

Let's keep going. See that. Okay. Maybe this helps put in contents because her response is the possibilities are so endless with that place. And I would run to love it as a business. I skipped a little, but. That's the gist. Right.

Does that help you recall? Were you talking about the Midway Mansion on March 3rd of 2022? If that text is directly following the ones in front of it, then yeah. Okay. And but then March 4th comes about, and this, we can skip down to this. Skip this. And you two are supposed to meet for brunch, correct? Yes.

But Corey doesn't show up. Right. And you text her to see what's happening. Yes. And why she isn't there? Yes. It's not like her to not show up? It's not like her to be a minute late.

Okay. And that's when you find out that Eric Richens had passed away that early morning. So I thought it was my recollectual. election, when she says brunch, I'm thinking 10 o'clock sharp, right? Okay. And I thought that I texted her because I could just sense. I could feel something was wrong because she was late. I hadn't heard anything from her.

So I texted her, you know, is everything okay? And she responded. That's when she told me. But like I thought it was, how do I say? I thought all that would have happened prior to noon at least. But I can I say? Yeah, go ahead. But I was shown text that say that it happened at 2 o'clock.

But I thought it happened earlier. So your question was that morning. I don't know if it was that morning. I thought it was that morning, but I've seen text that say, 2 p.m. All right. So your recollection is different time-wise as to what shows on these texts. I think so.

At one point in time, I asked for some texts of mine and hers so I could review them. You asked who for some texts? I was in a meeting. Ms. Margaret provided them with me. And by Ms. Margaret, do you mean the county attorney, Ms. Margaret Olson? Yes, ma'am. Okay. But all I got was the month of March, but it was like that.

What do you mean when you say it was like that? It was thick. There were a lot of text messages that month. So I don't, I don't, I'm not faulting her for stopping there, but. Let me just, I just want to make the record clear. You said you held your thumb and finger together about an inch. So you got about an inch worth of pages of text. Right.

And they were just for the month. the March and that's because I was trying to figure out what happened too, you know. Okay. So I'm going through them and the timelines on them. I'm not saying this is the case, but to me they appeared off by several hours. Like my text, something that I thought I sent at 11 a.m. would be 4 p.m. or whatever the case was. So I, and then I don't know if that was corrected.

If I was doing bad math because of the. time zones or so I don't know time wise I don't know some of it doesn't necessarily coincide with my memory but I don't but it might be it might be corrected I don't know when you say it might be corrected what are you talking about just that like that one text for instance because I remember very clearly where I was at which direction I was facing when I was told day he had passed. And I just remember it not being as late as what it says on the screen. I don't know. Maybe I'm completely off, but that's my memory. So you would wonder if what the time is on these texts is incorrect. Right. By several hours. And you notice this in a lot of

texts or just these ones this day? No, I think it was consistent. I'm amongst everything I looked at. What was consistent that the time was off? That everything was just pushed forward. You know better than I do. I don't know what they call the time difference. You got a plus eight and all this. Yes, the meridian time.

I turned to Alex, because he's our phone guy. Yes, I do know what you're referring to. Sometimes on the phone is seven or eight hours ahead of when it actually. happened, right? Is that what you were referring to? Yes. So you were just wondering why the times didn't seem to come forward? Right. Okay. All right, that's fair, but let me ask you this. Was it March 4th that you found out that Mr. Richens had passed? March 4th of 2020. Yes, yes. All right. We surprised by that information? Yes. So you didn't meet up with Corey as planned on March 4th, correct?

Correct. And you didn't see Corey for a couple of weeks, approximately, give or take. Yeah, I would guess 10 days to two weeks, something like that. I'm going to come back to that in just a moment, but can we quickly look at state's exhibit 253D? Where, you know, which one I'm looking for? Since you read my mind, Katie. Okay. This is when Ms. Richens tells you that she found out that Eric died of a fentanyl overdose, right?

You're going to have to let me read it, but in my mind. Well, go ahead and look at, yeah, right there, or it's highlighted. You know, I didn't know what fentanyl was then, so I don't know if I, if that's why it didn't stick. But I remember, I mean, I can go through and read all this if you want me to. No, I just want to know if this is the text where she told you. I mean, you don't have to know what the fentanyl is. Is this the text?

It's written right there. All right. I just wanted you to confirm for the jury what the date of that text was. 4.15. April 15th of 2022. Yes. All right. Now let's go on to when.

when you met with Ms. Richens a couple of weeks later, and you drove up into the Uwantas. You with me? Yes, yes. All right. And you just testified about a conversation that you had with her at that time. Yes.

Right? And you told, well, let me back up. You were interviewed by, I don't know if it was by the prosecution or by their investigator in about the spring of 2023 about this case. Is that right? It was warm outside.

I don't remember. Was it shortly after Corey was arrested? I think, yeah. Okay. And that's when you told them about this conversation, right? No. When did you tell them about the conversation? Let me ask this question.

You're the one that told them about this conversation. That information came from you, correct? Yes. Why did you tell them about this conversation? because I was trying to figure out what happened. And so never, never for a moment did I have a clue, a hint, not a fleeting thought that something intentionally might have happened to him, right? Right.

Let alone from her. So, you know, I think we'd gone a year without speaking at that point. And I don't know if I turned on the truck radio and heard she wrote a book and wasn't surprised. But then I started, you know, I listened to the interview. She gave about her book. And then maybe I did some research on my phone and saw that she had just been arrested or either she just got arrested. I don't know, days later, a week later. Okay. And then do you recall who you met with when you talked about this conversation?

After I found that out, I was overwhelmed with, you know, guilt, sorrow over my wrongdoings, you know, infidelity. Okay. And that's when I called. I was trying to get a hold of Eric's sister to tell her, I don't think she was home. I spoke with her husband instead, told him what I told him. And he told me, I forget the guy's name, but he said, I think there's somebody that would like to talk to you. And it was the Richens family, private investigator. I think I called him immediately after I hung up, spoke with him.

I don't recall the ends and outs of the conversation, but he told me that Corey had done it, You know, that she was guilty. He couldn't tell me why, but she, she, and that, that changed everything for me, you know. I was blown away and then, then I'm like looking at, looking at everything in our past with a different set of goggles on through, through different lenses. And I was trying to figure out if she did it and I could help. that's what I was going to do. And, and, you know, that's, sometime, sometime after that, it wasn't, it wasn't the first time I met with the investigator.

I think it was the second time or something. It dawned on me, oh, man, you know, what about that one time she asked me this? What about the time she said that? Okay. So let me, let me just stop you just for a minute so I can ask a couple of questions. So, so investigator Gable, or the family's detective, just told you. she's definitely guilty. I don't know if you used the word definitely, but said that she did it.

Right. All right. So then you started thinking back with 2020 hindsight about conversations. Right. Which led you to think of the conversation in the Uentis, fair? Yes. All right. Today sitting here when you think back on that conversation,

does that conversation seem like it was a strange conversation to you? And I can't tell one way. from the other anymore. I've been confused for years, you know. This conversation was about more than just what you did in Iraq, right? Yeah. This conversation, was it about just life and death in general? Yeah, it's about that. It was about lots of things. It was about the boys. It was about shooting a bow. It was about God. It was about supernatural stuff.

And at the time you were having the conversation, did it seem like a strange conversation back at the time it happened? At the time it happened, we had just, her and I just experienced supernatural things. So no, there was nothing that was surprising. The talk was not surprising. So it was in context with things that were going on and you were talking about at that time. Yeah. Do you know why you were talking about bow hunting? Why was that part of this?

It seems a little different than the rest of the conversation. She was talking about just she was talking good things about Eric and how phenomenal of a man. And I don't know. And she she's mentioned it of how good her. boys were, or I don't, I can't remember. One of them can, one of them can't at that time. Bo hunt? Well, I don't know.

One of them was shooting a bow. One of them was, I don't remember. So she wanted to learn to shoot a bow. Is that what that was about? She did. She told me that. Okay. Or she already, she already knew how.

I don't remember. When you and Corey were together, were you aware that Eric had had an affair also? I was told that. All right. You'd mentioned during direct that you did work for Corey here in Utah and that sometimes she would just pay you in lump sums. Do you recall that?

Yes. Do you recall lump sum? She paid you in the amount of $25,000 after Eric died? I remember that lump sum. My timeline is pretty foggy, though. Okay. I feel like it was after he passed, yes. Okay.

Hey everyone. Okay. We went a little bit longer. We actually had some other clips from the, I had some other clips from the Cross Freddy, but we're going to skip those. We did it all at once. So thanks. Yeah, I did.

I got off the phone with Josh Grossman. We did talk to him. Yes. This is what he wants to say right now. Some things are off record. This is what he wants people to know. No. He was not sad on the stand today about a loss of a relationship with Corey. This wasn't that this wasn't a sadness for being brokenhearted today.

He says that he was sad on the stand for three little boys. and yes, Josh has been released. He was sad on the stand for three little boys who lost their father, and he is very, very sad for the Richens family and their loss, and he is sad for the situation that Corey is in. There you go. That's what I want to do. And he also is trying to join the chat to share with many of you think he has hit

subscribe and it hasn't worked. So I recommended that he unsubscribe and subscribe again. If any of you have had this issue before, it's such a bummer to hear that on our channel that someone isn't able to talk. But I assume some of you have maybe had this experience before. So if you have any tips for him, he's trying to chat, but was only able to send super chats. So if you guys know, I told him to try unsubscribing and subscribing again, then waiting five minutes. But that is, that is what he wanted. That's all he wanted to share.

Today is why he was emotional on the stand. So I appreciate it, you know. So thank you, Josh. All right. For that, for that info. What we just listened to, I realize that we just listened to this, but to reiterate what we just heard there,

Lewis asked if Josh remembered a lump sum payment of $25,000 that Corey had paid him after Eric's death. And Josh said he did remember the lump sum, believes it was after he passed. But the timeline is pretty foggy for him. And then Wendy Lewis asked if if Josh was aware that Corey had received money from life insurance, Josh said yes and that Corey had texted him one time and seemed surprised that she had gotten it. It's interesting. And then Lewis asked if it would be fair to say that Corey was protective of Eric and his reputation. And Josh said, yes.

So painting the picture that Corey loved Eric and was protective of Eric. As for how Corey acted after Eric passed away, Josh then, you know, had those things to say we just heard. On redirect, so in other words, after Cross is done, then the prosecution gets back up for redirect exam to ask questions, and Bloodworth brought up the trip to the Uintas that Corey and Josh had taken. And Josh confirmed that on that trip, Corey and Josh had talked about what a phenomenal father that Eric was.

it felt like sort of this lasting imprint that the state wanted to make on the jury. A loving father gone and by the prosecution's argument, he's gone because his wife poisoned him, right? That he was a good and loving father. Even Corey and Josh understood that. Lewis then came back to ask Josh if Corey gave him an impression on how she felt, that the boys had lost their phenomenal father. The state objected to hearsay, which was sustained.

And then a sidebar was quickly had, and then no further questions. So Judge Marazic bless his soul. He announced that court will begin at 9.30 again tomorrow. And with that court was adjourned for the day. This was a long recap, wasn't it? And it was like such a wonderful way to end, 930, once again. So the hidden true crime team can sleep in a little bit, and that'll be, that'll be nice. So there you go.

Yeah, what a, what a live, right? What alive, right? Almost three hours. And we'll be, we'll be back tomorrow night with another recap. So if you haven't, please hit subscribe, hit notifications. tomorrow. We plan to go live at a similar time, but it depends on when we're ready. And thank you for everyone being here for these real life lives. You never know what's going to happen. And thank you, Josh, for sharing what you wanted to share. We appreciate it. I have more

questions for Josh. Trust me, I didn't ask everything. I wanted to ask about a few of the texts that we read tonight. I've got questions, but that'll have to wait for another day. So there you go. there you go. So Josh, if you're listening to this, let's talk some more later. And I have questions about some of your texts. But thank you for what you shared about why you were sad. I think that was actually the number one question we all had. We wanted to know what you were feeling up there, what you were thinking. And so thank you for sharing with us that, again, Josh states to us, to me, that he was not he was not sad about a lost relationship or being heartbroken. He was sad for three little boys who lost their father for the Richens family and their loss. And as well as for the situation, it was sad from the situation that Corey is now in.

Okay. So thanks, guys. I appreciate that you think my hair is rocking. I appreciate that. Thank you. Got it done a couple weeks ago, so that means a lot. Guys, it's so good to see everyone in chat. I wanted to share a bit more. Thank you to the new members today.

It's so good to see you. Oh, and I have one more thing to say about John. I'm forgive my laughing earlier, guys. Yeah, I could not keep a straight face. A couple things, this is what I wanted to say. for those of want to know John's initial thoughts, we have done a really great episode on this years ago. When Corey was first arrested,

John gave his thoughts, and it's not something that a lot of people have actually seen. If we can share that, if you, let's see, I saw it earlier today. I started listening to it again, and I was like, this is great. This is something that should be revisited. So, yeah.

And we're going to have John on soon. He's preparing. But we'll also have that. I'll put that in pinned comments for anyone wanting. It's a bit of a blast from the past, but I also think it's pretty evergreen. A lot of what John says is pretty evergreen. I mean, we know a lot more information now, right?

This was like right after the arrest. But his initial impressions, yeah, we have those. And he went over what she said. one of the big things that he talked about that I think is really important is John went over her interview and what she said during her interview with Good Things, Utah about the book she wrote about grief and children. And by the way, I think I told you guys this yesterday, but I want to say it one more time, I do believe now, I think of it's that Corey truly did write that book, that book on grief for children. And we also heard that Corey doesn't really

like to talk about her feelings a lot. I sort of make fun of the book. as being very actually kind of distant and disconnected, despite it being about grief. And we're learning that Corey was actually kind of that way. She didn't do feelings well, right? And it's Kit from the channel wordwise that has convinced me that this wasn't an I book. This wasn't a Fiverr book. Corey really wrote this book. And in thinking about that, I think she thought that maybe she ought to try to help her kids,

did the best she could. doesn't mean it's not weird and it doesn't mean she should have never gone on tour promoting said book but uh and i and i promoted this yesterday but kit from the channel wordwise has a really great analysis of corey richon's book if you head over to kit wordwise i think is the channel and then you just scroll down until you see um cori richard's book is on the thumbnail it's fascinating. But so John, my husband and co-host, and he's been absent recently because we've been so busy covering trials, he jumps on and does the analysis. He's a, he's a criminal and forensic psychologist, or criminal and criminal is forensic and clinical psychologist. He sort of talks about

her interview with Good Things, Utah and really gets into, he essentially says she didn't know how to agree. It's fascinating. Quarry Rich and is exposed. So let's see, did we put that in? There we go. Thank you for putting that in. We'll put that in a pinned comment as well because so many people are asking that can tide you over until John comes back because we have a lot more to talk to him about. I want to know what he thinks about her reactions today. We now know what Josh claims he was feeling. I'd be very curious what he thinks Corey might have been feeling on the stand. Who knows? All right. everyone. Okay, have a good evening. We're going to sign off our longest stream yet, but we had a lot to catch up on. Thank you for being patient with me. And oh, and then one last thing, people are pointing out how Wendy Lewis is she's always saying fair. That's fair, which is actually something I say to a lot. Fair. I also say correct a lot. You guys point that out to correct and fair. I think maybe they're learning about how much they say correct and maybe they're shifting to fair. I don't know. I don't know. Are we going to need a fare counter-sume? It's all the same. Same zies. All right, but we'll see if they go back to correct or they do more fares tomorrow. We'll see. All right. See you guys. Bye-bye. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet,

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