Hidden True Crime - Storage Unit Videos Shown, & Deadly DNA | Lori Vallow Daybell Trial Day 4 Recap

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

Day 4 of the Lori Daybell trial brought the receipts, proof and tiemline and Lauren is here to break it all down for you. Jes Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1q3XN_hdEo&t=633s Brandon Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnLc7I2gyWtQ2L4_aCtEOlvmFBxegNf56&si=B6BQJgzco69lYoWL Limited Trial Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/hidden-true-crime-limited-merch/ About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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atora.com slash remove. Hello, hidden jens. Today was big, and I mean big. Day four of the Lori Vallow Daybell trial and the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreau delivered. And if you thought things were already in 10, so just wait. Because after my lunch live live at lunch, one phrase, storage unit videos. Yeah, we've got a lot to unpack. But first, just a quick note, I just want to say it is always so great meeting those of you who come to court. and today's gallery was a little bit smaller, but still full of new faces, and it means the world when you stop and you say hi. And for those of you catching up on this trial and asking me which

videos to start with, I always point you to two. One is our full backstory of this case. It's the intro video on our YouTube channel, and it's also an episode on our podcast. And the other is a powerful interview with Jess, a woman whose story cuts deep and describes what it was like when her friend Brandon Boudreau's life was almost taken. Both of those videos are in the trial playlist that we have on YouTube and it is tagged in the comments and linked in the video description. And now back to this morning. I'll admit it. I took a little nap while we waited in line outside the courtroom. Big thanks to Joe and Trace, who let me use their sweatshirts as pillows. I'm telling you this crew waiting in line every day. We have become like a courtroom family of sorts. Even the bailiffs have caught on. We all know

each other's names now. And then I woke up to a cookie, a literal cookie, gifted to us by Julie Brooks. And if you don't know her name, let me tell you why it matters. Julie is Tammy Davell's cousin, Aunt Vicki's daughter. And she grew up in Springville right alongside. Chad and Tammy. But not only that, if that's not enough, she went to church with Lori Charles, JJ, and Tiley. So this case, it's personal to her to say the least, as personal as it can get. She still lives in Arizona, and those cookies that she made, along with the handwritten note attached to each bag, were such a thoughtful grounding gesture to begin a very heavy day. And then, when we were shuffled into the courtroom, Nancy Johancock arrived wearing the most

incredible pink power shoes I have ever seen. Prosecutor Trina Kay had on her signature power suit and bold red lipstick. Kay Woodcock was there too, still showing up for Brandon with a quiet strength that absolutely it fills the room. Julie Brooks sat with Brandon's family and later in the morning Colby Ryan walked in. The gallery had a fierce energy today and I swear the jury could feel it. I know I did. And then enter Lori. wearing that blue blazer, she rotates on the regular, but it was the hair that stopped us, or at least stopped me. I mean, the higher the hair, the closer to heaven, right? This was a new level of Lori's courtroom glam. And look, I get it. It's not supposed to matter what she looks like,

but something about it just felt, I don't know, psychological, almost performative. I'm going to be asking Dr. John about it tonight. She is a hairstylist and a convicted killer. I think we're allowed to unpack the hair and to judge that bit. Oh, and one more thing I noticed. Julie Brooks handed Trina Kay one of her cookies. Trina smiled as she read the note. Just a small shared moment in a room filled with, gosh, a lot of history, heartbreak. And today, I will just say it, a whole lot of revelation. So stick around. We've got a lot to talk about, including the storage unit videos, the witness testimony and everything else that went down in court today. And just like that, after we all gathered in the gathering in the courtroom, the jury was brought in and day four

of the trial was officially on record. We picked up right where we left off with Lori continuing her cross-examination of Detective Ryan Pillar, the lead agent on the case back in 2019. So if you remember, Lori had already started down the path of questioning Pillar about Brandon turning over his phone for data extraction. But today, she steered us back to something else. Brandon's interview inside Pillars car just hours after the shooting. According to Pillar, that interview lasted about 30 minutes and was audio recorded. And during that time, Brandon shared that the most recent person he had had a falling out with

was Melanie, his wife that he was getting a divorce from. and Lori's niece and his soon-to-be-X. And because Melanie had their youngest child with her at the time, Pillar told Brandon he needed to call her. They had to rule out the possibility that she could be involved. Well, three calls later, no answer. So Pillar left her a voicemail and eventually got through. By the next day, October 3rd, Melanie voluntarily, voluntarily came to the Gilbert Police Department

for an interview. No lawyer, no hesitation, just an hour-long conversation in a private room with Pillar. but Lori wasn't done poking. She tried to ask if Melanie mentioned anything about bad business deals during that interview, likely attempting to steer this thing toward a, someone else had a motive narrative, classic distraction, but Trina Kay wasn't having it. She objected.

Lori talked right over her loudly, but Judge Breskes sustained the objection. Lori reworded the question and asked whether Pillar had followed up on anything Melanie said, he said yes, and that they spoke again on October 14th when Melanie reached out about some custody issues. Now, before I begin, I want to say it was, it was interesting to think that they were trying in 2019 to rule out the possibility of Melanie Boudreau possibly being involved. We have learned in this trial that she could, they haven't ruled that out, be involved. There is an active ongoing investigation into Melanie's involvement in this case.

That was a pretty big bombshell. Many have asked, why wasn't she charged? I think the jury is asking why she hasn't been charged, honestly, but the amount of evidence that's come out in trial already in just less than four days. Who knows what's going to happen? Someone else did point out, by the way, that Arizona might have a limit. to how much time can go by for an attempted murder. And what is that time?

The statute of limitations? Seven years. And we are on year six. So I think we'll know soon. Anyway, let's get back to, after they reached out to Melanie, Melanie reached out about some custody issues. I'll say this, then came from Lori's some memory games.

So Brandon, if you remember, had previously testified that he gave Pillar the VIN number of Lori's Jeep during the first interview. He knew that from helping Charles shop for insurance, but Pillar didn't remember it that way. He said there was a lot going on at the time, an understatement. And from what he recalled, the Chandler police gave him the license plate number, which led to the VIN. It is possible that Brandon gave it too. He just doesn't remember. So why does Lori care about this? small detail and so many small details that she keeps bringing up. She did a lot of cross-exam on Pillar. Well, she's trying to press whether Pillar immediately knew the Jeep was gray because of Brandon. Pillar said,

no, the color came from Chandler Police Department Intel, not Brandon. And nobody else had spoke to, he said, ever described the Jeep as gray. But here's the thing. This Jeep is one of those colors. depending on the lighting and angle, people have called it green, gray, even a dusty blue. And I'll admit, I saw a photo of the Jeep today. It kind of looked a little dusty blue. For the first time, I was like, it might be blue. It's like the dress that broke the internet. Remember the dress?

I think most of you remember the dress. But this time, the dress is deadly. Lori's clearly hoping she can spin that ambiguity into reasonable doubt. But let's be honest, it is a reach. And then she asked a pillar had ever tried to locate a green or blue Jeep with Texas plates. He said no, because they didn't have enough information. And speaking of colors of the Jeep, we have heard a lot about this issue throughout the trial. Obviously, we've brought it to you almost every day.

And so this morning, I actually received an email about this. It was a viewer who worked in the print color industrial plastics printing businesses. and they explain that jeeps in this time period utilize metanerism to create color changing, both subtle and wide finishes on their products. Well, the gray, puke, green Jeep is one color that uses this technology to purposely create colors that shift according to light, source, and type shade, angle, et cetera, as well as people's differing eye perception. So this person also sent two sources.

one being the Wrangler Guide and another one being a link for a blog called Technicraft with a post titled Quote, how metammerism, forgive me if I'm butchering that word, affects perception of color, end quote. So I just want to throw that out there. I thought that was so interesting.

I wanted to bring it up. And I thought the dress that broke the internet was also a good example of how this happens. But for the record, I want everyone to know that dress was blue. It was never gold. So anyway, next up, Lori went fishing for emails. She tried to publish an email exchange between Pillar and Brandon into evidence.

Trina objected, sustained. The judge let Pillar view it on the stand but said, nope, not going into evidence. Lori still pushed asking whether the email was about Brandon giving financial info about Melanie. That led to yet another side. VAR likely because Lori was brushing up against third party defense territory, something she's claiming she's not doing, right? This third party defense, oh, she keeps saying I'm not doing that. But let's be real for a second.

It sure looks like that's exactly what she is doing. She is doing this. She's circling it like a vulture. And who is the third party defense? Her own niece that she says was like a daughter to her. Well, we know she doesn't care. She never really has protected daughters, to say the least. So I don't know why I'm so surprised.

I guess because I thought she protected Chad and never blamed him. She might do that with others. But nope. No, throwing her niece Melanie under the bus definitely seems like what she's trying to do, even though she's not doing it. And when questioning resumed, Pillar confirmed Brandon had given him a screenshot of a conversation with Melanie. Lori then tried to get into theories.

Did Melanie offer any ideas about what really happened during the shooting? Pillar didn't remember. Trina objected again hearsay. Judge told Lori to rephrase. She handed over one of the screenshots and asked if Pillar investigated what was said in those messages. Objection, sidebar. Clearly, the content of those messages is something the court wants to keep out, which also means I want to know what they say more than that.

And it is interesting because those messages likely hint at a deeper family mess that prosecutors are trying hard to wall off. So I would love to know what is in those messages. And ironically, those off-limit details, though, I want to say, they seem like, honestly, did only benefit Lori. Like, like, as in as in Lori wants, needs to keep the door closed. Like what I mean is the state wanting to keep these details off limits. It feels like that would benefit Lori, not the state is what I'm trying to say. They're helping Lori almost keep these doors closed rather than break them wide open, which would open up, you know, her involvement into and maybe other, her other convictions.

After that dust up, Lori pivoted to the Tesla. Yep, the Tesla that Brandon was driving when he was shot at. Lori wanted to know what happened to the window, the one that shattered during the attack. And Pillar said it was discarded after evidence and photos were collected. I talked about this in my lunch line. And so Lori pressed him. Why wasn't it safe? Pillar said that they got what they needed.

It's pretty much his answer. There wasn't a clean bullet hole, just an impact point. And what about the Tesla itself? Lori asked. Well, Pillar said it was processed at the scene. And then he personally drove it back to the Gilbert Police Department for, indoor examination. Unusual, maybe, but they weren't planning on impounding the car ever, probably because it was Brandon's only vehicle and they returned it to him fairly quickly.

He explained nobody had died. There was somebody who still owned the vehicle, but Lori was not happy about this. Before I switched to Wellfront, my APY was probably 0.1. Once I switched to I switched to chiching. With the Wealthfront cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. I can trust. Wealthfront is taking care of me. Make your money earn more. Get started at Wealthfront.com.

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0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brogeridge, LLC, member FINRA, SIPC, not a bank. She's clearly frustrated that the Tesla and the shattered window weren't preserved and that the glass wasn't tested more thoroughly, that the projectiles were analyzed to her liking. And I want to say, I don't know if she's not genuinely happy about this. She's showing the court she's not happy about this, but I think inside she's thinking, this is great. I can poke holes in the evidence. I can show the sloppy police work in front

of the jury and that things weren't tested and this isn't fair. So in her mind, this is sloppy, in the state's mind, it's sufficient. You know, but again, let's be real. She's not asking because she's obsessed with forensic purity. She's looking for cracks. And if she finds one, she's hoping she can convince the jury of them too. Cracks and the foundation of evidence is the best way to spin a story. And we all know that Lori loves spinning stories.

That's like, you know, what do you do, Lori? I spin stories. Anyway, let's listen to Lori in her own words, venting about what wasn't tested, what wasn't saved, and what she thinks the jury should care about. Take a listen to this. Having been a case agent hundreds of times, you must have known that if you were ever going to charge someone with this crime, then surely you would need this evidence so the defense could hire their own experts to do testing of the car in the window, right? The crime of this caliber and it's not uncommon for cases to develop into something more than what you initially believe, which is part of being human, part of being an investigator. We did not take the vehicle in this case. We did not have a decedent. In other words, we did not have a person who was injured or killed. We had property damage and we were still very early in our investigation to determine what happened.

So no, we did not maintain custody of that vehicle. So is it not in your protocol to preserve evidence? It's in our protocol to preserve evidence. But not in this case. In this case, I made the decision not to maintain custody of that Tesla. So without this evidence available, how would my experts be able to test for trajectory? We couldn't test for trajectory with what we had. If it was here today, it's possible that you guys could test for trajectory with the

the advancements in technology, again, not being somebody who is trained or certified in any type of trajectory training. I don't know how that process would even look, but we simply don't have the vehicle today as we're discussing this. And you don't have an expert at Gilbert Police Department that's an expert in trajectory?

At that time, we did not. Okay. And how would my ballistics expert be able to test hole in the Tesla to determine, in fact, if it was a rifle or a handgun that was used. How would I do that now? How would you go about? How would I have an expert do that now? You would hire somebody who would potentially be a specialist in this area and see if they had the

ability to obtain evidence of trajectory. But how would you do that now outside of hiring somebody and doing that without the vehicle? I suppose you could not. Lori had the same questions for the projectiles that were found at the scene. Why they weren't tested to see what type of gun they came from. Pillar testified that he was not an munitions expert, but he doesn't believe that there is a test that could determine what kind of gun those fragments came from because they weren't intact anyway.

There was no case scene. They had no gun to verify anything whether or not they knew what type of gun it was. Pillar said that the evidence shows that some type of gun fired a Brandon and struck the car's body frame fragmenting the bullet. Lori asked of a test did determine that the bullet came from a handgun. Would that have made a big difference in Brandon's story? Detective Pillar, I loved his answer. He said, no, because it doesn't really matter what Brandon believed he saw in a split second. The fact of the matter is that a shooting did occur. Next, Lori asked, how many neighbors confirmed that they heard the sound of a gunshot.

And Detective Pillar stated that approximately four or five different people claimed to have heard either a loud bang or gunshot. Lori asked if that was written in any of his reports. And Pillar said he documented any neighbors who either heard something or had surveillance that captured audio consistent with a loud bang. He also said that some security systems captured audio of a car idling for an extended period of time near the residence, which was near where the Jeep would have been parked prior to the shooting.

Lori asked Detective Pillar about a sworn statement he made in the statement he wrote that other neighbors confirmed they had observed a gray colored hardtop two-door Jeep. Lori wanted to know what neighbors confirmed there was a gray Jeep. And then Pillar asked where that statement was from, and Lori said it was in his affidavit written on November 19, 2019. So let's listen to this exchange. And earlier you had testified that no one had said the Jeep was gray at all, but in your sworn testimony there, you say that other neighbors confirmed that they observed a gray colored hard top two-door Jeep.

What neighbors would those be? And this is the probable cause statement from... For the infotainment center? Yeah, for the infotainment center, but on what date? November 19, 2019? November 19th, 2019? Okay, so I don't recall who specifically said that they saw the gray colored hardtop two-door Jeep.

It was, however, at this juncture that I do know that that was the vehicle we were looking at from the photographs and from the LPR hits. It was an alleged vehicle, but that was not the vehicle vehicle that the neighbors described to you. Is that correct? I did not have any vehicles described to me by a neighbor specifically, no.

So you swore that in your statement to take out that infotainment center to that two door gray hard top Jeep, right? You're the police officer. You're asking for a warrant to do this because this is your probable cause. Is that correct? Yes, ma'am.

And you're saying in that, that neighbors confirmed that they saw a gray colored hard top two door. Jeep, but that was not true. I suppose the one word that I could exchange from anything is a dark colored hard top two-door Jeep. But at this point in my investigation, I had confirmed that it was a gray-colored two-door Jeep.

Well, once again, Lori Valo Daibel took center stage, continuing her relentless cross-examination of Detective Ryan Pillar. And this time, she had a new angle. She asked if, when preparing to investigate this case back in 2000, it would be fair to say most of the information Detective Pillar relied on came directly from Brandon. Pillar admitted yes. In the early stages, a majority of what they did had came from Brandon. He was witness to this attempted murder, so it makes sense to me. But Lori then circled back to that Tesla, the scene of the attempted murder and asked whether

Brandon was given any instructions after the car was returned to him. And Pillar said, yes. He was told he could get it. fixed. The police didn't need it anymore, and it was, after all, Brandon's only car. He was free to do whatever he wanted with it. And from there, Lori probed into what other physical evidence had been collected. Beyond the Tesla and the bullet fragments, Pillar recalled only one other item, a cigarette butt found outside Brandon's neighbor's house. The neighbor didn't smoke and thought it might be connected, but DNA was never taken from it. And Pillar said they still have it in evidence, oddly. However, he doubted it was relevant, just an easily drop cigarette that someone

walking down the street possibly dropped. Nothing suspicious. Not the bombshell Lori had hoped for. Then came the firearms. Did Branton own any guns at the time? Hiller said no, and that officers had cleared the house before detectives even arrived. The garage was open and yes, Lori asked about it. Again, the garage door, open or close. Who went in? How far? These are the questions Lori kept repeating with witness after witness asking repeatedly

detective pillar over and over. What exactly she's building towards is anyone's guess, but so far it's a dead end. But I also think what she's honestly doing, is again trying to poke holes in the foundation of the evidence. Sloppy police work. Not enough questions. Not enough things they crossed off their list.

Lori then returned to her favorite topic, her niece, Melanie. She asked what advice pillar gave Melanie regarding her custody issues with Brandon. He testified that he told her to seek help from a family law attorney. Then Lori tried to sneak in a comment asking her Pillar new Bramon, Brandon hadn't returned the kids to Melanie. That was a big moment. Did you know that Brandon hadn't returned the kids to Melanie? I mean, referring to a possible kidnapping, custodial interference, that's a big deal.

Well, prosecutor Trina K. Immediately objected, obviously. Lori kept talking anyway. That's what she always does when the prosecutor objects, keeps talking to judges so patient. And while the judge sustained the objection, Lori got what she wanted, that stray sentence planted in the jury's mind. It's something, again, she does a lot, talking over objections, slipping in a provocative comment before the judge can shut it down. And with that, Lori wrapped up her cross-exam of Detective Pillar.

But then Trina Kay jumped in to clean up the confusion with redirect. Lori wasn't going to conclude this. she reminded the jury that it was the neighbor, Robert Abbottomarko, who said the Jeep he saw was dark-colored, not gray, not green, just dark. Brandon is the one who described it as camel or green, and only later realized it could be tied to Lori's gray Jeep, the same one owned by her, registered in her name. Detective Pillar clarified, when he wrote the probable cause statement, he wasn't quoting a specific neighbor calling it gray. He was combining everything he'd learned by that point, including that Lori owned a gray Jeep, and that's what went into the statement. Trina also emphasized that Brandon's account wasn't the only one they relied on.

Neighbors corroborated what he said about where the Jeep was parked and what direction it was facing. A ring doorbell even captured the sound of the gunshot. It wasn't all Brandon's word. There was evidence. There were witnesses. And speaking of evidence, Pillar admitted that Brandon didn't hop out of his Tesla and mark its exact position in the street.

He didn't mark where the Jeep was either. And because the Tesla was moving during the shooting, well, there is going to be no perfect reconstructed the bullet's trajectory. It's another gray area, just like that Jeep. And one Lori is clearly hoping to exploit. Then came some nuance in the audio evidence. That first interview with Brandon, the one in Pillars car was recorded. but the engine was running, the air conditioner was blowing,

Brandon spoke softly. And in the recording, some words are hard to make out. Pillar admitted it, saying even an interpreter might mishear some things. Oh, and then remember when Lori claimed the Jeep was only picked up on one license plate reader. Yeah, so about that, because this has been another thing she's been trying to poke holes in. Well, during Lori's cross, Detective Pillar stated that the Jeep was only captured on one license plate. reader, but that may not be entirely accurate. So let's listen to them clarify this. The defendant had asked you about there being no other license plate readers showing this Jeep.

Is that accurate? That is not accurate. Was there a LPR hit for the Jeep Wrangler, Texas plate LWD 0997 in a city south of Rexburg, Idaho on September 30th of 2019 at about 810 p.m? Yes. Was there an LPR hit in Idaho for the Jeep Wrangler license plate LWD 0997 on U.S. Highway 20 near Rexburg, Idaho at 354 and 428 on October 3rd? Yes. Would that, again, be consistent with other evidence that you learned in this case from other individuals? Yes. You were asked a bit about a cast report done by Nick.

balance. Do you recall that? I do. Did you create that? I did not create that report. Did you provide some of the cell phone records that we admitted and talked about that you obtained through search warrants to Mr. Balance? Yes. And did information that he gleaned from that and that he made into that report that you've reviewed appear consistent again with a timeline of that Jeep leaving Idaho on the 30th of September and being down in Arizona on October 2nd of 2019. Yes, it did. Well, the jury had a few more questions for Detective Pillar as well, and this was interesting. We haven't heard from the jury a lot.

We watched them a lot. They're definitely more expressive, by the way, than the last jury here in Arizona. And we'll get into that in just a minute. But the jury had questions. It's always an interesting moment. And the first said, quote, and these are questions, again, after Detective Pillar finished, the cross-exam and the redirect. The first said, quote, in your experience, is it unusual for witnesses to confuse color

or not remember them accurately, end quote? Which gives us a hint, I'll just say, that the jury is a little confused about the color of this Jeep. Again, the dress that broke the internet. here we go again round two but it was a great question solid question they're dotting their eyes are crossing their teas and so pillar answered yes i mean it makes sense that if you're a victim in a stressful traumatic situation you may not remember details such as color especially if you're trying to get away other witnesses may see something but not realize the details are important until later. If something doesn't blatantly stick out in the moment, it would be easy to forget or

misremember a color. The next question was, quote, were the attempted phone calls to the wife, recorded wife, Melanie, recorded during the car interview of Brandon on the day of the shooting, and were voicemails left explaining the situation, end quote. The fed's out of options, rate cuts, money printing, balance sheet reversals. They call it policy, but it's really panic. This is in-game economics where hope replaces discipline, and the illusion of control finally breaks. They're not cutting rates because things are strong.

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including gold involved risks. Consult with a tax attorney or financial professional before making an investment decision. Summer adventures are better with Minky Couture. trips to ball games, beach nights to backyard movies. Minky has you covered. Don't miss the everywhere blanket, water resistant, ultra soft, and made for life on the go. Wherever summer takes you, bring comfort along. Minky Couture.com, the original best blanket ever. When they say explaining the situation, I think when Brandon called Melanie and she didn't answer for three times, did he leave a voicemail explaining the situation?

So Pillar stated that Brandon's call attempts were recorded and a voicemail was left requesting a response for a callback, not explaining the situation, though. So the situation really wasn't explained on that voicemail situation. Pillar called Melanie himself, though, later on and left a message explaining his involvement as a detective who wanted to talk to Melanie. She later responded and they agreed to have an interview the next day. The next witness on the stand was Vanessa Milki, who is a forensic scientist for the city of Mesa Forensic Services. Her role is to examine items for the presence of biological fluid, conducts DNA analysis, prepares samples for DNA analysis, takes notes, writes, and review report. So if you have a question about DNA, she's your girl.

That's pretty much her background. And during DNA analysis, one person will take. take cuttings of the sample, and another person will use those to develop a non-DNA profile. Mielkees stated that DNA can be generated from air, semen, saliva, sweat, skin, cells, and blood. Just because someone touches something doesn't necessarily mean they will leave behind DNA, which was great to hear because John Pryor, the Chad Daybill's trial, said that you leave your DNA everywhere, you shed it constantly, and if there's no DNA, you probably weren't there. not according to this DNA expert.

Just because you touch something still doesn't mean your DNA will be left behind. It depends on the surface if the person is wearing gloves and environmental conditions are a factor as well. Heat, sunlight, extreme cold, and cleaning products are all things that could damage the presence of DNA. Milki testified that if there is a known DNA sample, they are generally able to create a full single source DNA profile. And this could include blood or a buckle swab, which is when the skin cells from inside the cheek are taken on a long Q-tip, that buckle swab is often taken to, just to when people need to be not when you want to remove suspects from a case. You'll often ask someone for a buckle swab, and they'll say, yeah, take my DNA. You'll see, I don't match. Jason Mao gave a buckle swab in this case, interestingly enough.

If there is a cutting or swab from a crime scene, there are different things that might affect the ability to develop a full DNA profile. And for example, if there isn't enough DNA present or if there's too much DNA to make any conclusions, like a mixture, or if there is a mixture, sometimes they can determine the major contributor, meaning the person who left behind the most DNA in the sample, as well as minor contributors. They can also determine the sex of the contributors in the sample based on XX or XY chromosomes. Next, Mielke testified the DNA analysis is a four-step process. The first step is called extraction where the DNA cells are broken open and the DNA is released from the cells. The second step is connotation where they are determining how much DNA there is in a sample, if there is any at all. The third step is amplification, which is similar to a DNA zero. rocks machine where millions of copies are made. The fourth step is called detection where they generate

the DNA profile. The unknown DNA profiles can then be compared to the known DNA profiles to see if there is a match or no match. So I actually find it fascinating with the whole DNA process. We've come so far. And in January of 2020, the Mesa Police Department lab was contracted to do DNA testing for the Gilbert Police Department. So January 2020, just to lay the stage for this, I want you to know that after Brandon was shot at, Tammy Daybell then died. And then in November,

there was a welfare check on JJ and Tiley. They were missing. In December, Tammy Daybill's body was exhumed. And what else happened? The day before, or the day after Tammy Daybill's body was exhumed, Alex Cox died.

I'll always be suspicious of that death. So in January of 2020, I just want to point out, that they were able to collect a blood blot from Alex, his DNA after his death during the autopsy. So in January of 2020, the Mesa Police Department lab was contracted to do DNA testing for the Gilbert Police Department.

And in this case, milky was provided with several DNA cuttings from swabs from a vehicle. She asked to develop DNA profiles from these cuttings. She was also provided with a DNA profile of Alex Cox. There you go. blood blot, and use that to compare the cuttings. In the swab from the steering wheel, there was a mixture of DNA with the majority

contributor being a match for Alex Cox. Ding, ding, ding. The swab from the passenger seatbelt buckle, the passenger interior door handle and lug nuts from the spare tile, tire that they took off and removed, well, those were inconclusive, darn it, due to insufficient amounts of DNA. The swab from the gear shift had a mixture of male and female DNA, but she wasn't able to determine a major contributor, also a darn it. But Alex Cox could not be eliminated.

The swab from the driver's side seat belt buckle had a major DNA contributor matching Alex Cox, and that would be where he was sitting and driving. After lunch, the next witness on the stand was Kyle Mueller, who is a forensic scientist supervisor for the city of Phoenix Crime Lab. He is particularly proficient in analyzing gunshot residue, which are small metallic particles

that are formed from the discharge of a firearm. These small particles are made up of lead, antimony, and barium that are from the primer paste inside the bottom of a cartridge casing. So the primer paste is dissonantibus.

disintegrated and GSR particles are left behind from any part of the firearm that isn't closed. So there are three different classifications of GSR. I learned a lot today about GSR, gunshot residue, three different classifications of GSR that are tested, four characteristic particles that have all three elements, the consistent particles that have two out of three elements, and commonly associated particles that are lead only. So that smoke that you see when you shoot a gun will be GSR particles. When it lands on things, there's little dusting. The particles are microscopic, so they aren't visible to the naked eye.

But those three elements are present in gunshot residue or GSR, regardless of the type of gun that was used. So like I said, I found this fascinating. So let's just listen to Mueller explain what factors impact whether or not the GSR particles are left behind. Take a listen to this. When someone discharges a gun, what factors might impact whether or not that GSR residue particles are left on a person or objects around the gun? Well, you can imagine when someone shoots a gun, it's kind of like that plume of smoke that's generated. It's kind of like smoking a cigarette. That plume of smoke is going to travel one way or the other based on if you're outside, if you're inside, if you're a windy day or if it's raining.

So if you're in an enclosed place, depending on where the wind velocity is, it's going to depend on where that travels. So if a person fires a gun from inside a vehicle while it's parked, would you in general expect to find GSR particles inside that vehicle? Yes, it's certainly possible. Okay. Can GSR particles over time get lost or removed from whatever object they have attached to after the gun is discharged? So these particles, like I said before, they're like a fine metallic dust. They don't have a half-life, they don't decay over time, they don't evaporate, they're simply just washed away. So if GSR particles are found on an object, they will stay there indefinitely until they're washed away.

Okay. Have you seen cases where GSR was found inside a vehicle weeks or months after someone has fired a gun inside that car? It's possible, yes. Yes. In a case where it's alleged that a person was inside a rear portion of a Jeep and fired a rifle out the back window, would you, would it be within the normal scope of possibilities to locate GSR on the windows of that vehicle a month after the shooting? It's possible, yes. Would it be impacted if, say, someone went in the Jeep and sprayed some windex and cleaned off all the windows? Would that then remove it? Yes.

It would possibly remove any GSR. So when analyzing potential GSR, Mueller stated that he is usually given labeled vials that contain the sample. Those are then placed inside an instrument, which stands S-E-M-E-D-S-C-M-E-S-M-E-S-M-E-S-MEDs, which stands for scanning electron microscopy with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy. This is why he's the expert and not me, but that was awesome. So this analyzes the sample to see if GSR particles are present. And if all three elements are present, that means the sample is highly unlikely to have come from anything other than a firearm.

So if only two are located, that still means it's likely to have come from a firearm, but there's also this possibility to have come from something else. So in January of 2020, Mueller, he was provided with two sealed GSR kits from the Gilbert Police Department to analyze. And for the samples of the passenger side interior back window and the driver's side interior window, characteristic particles, meaning all three elements of GSR were located. Boom. That means that this area of the Jeep was in the vicinity of a discharge firearm. Common particles were found for the passenger interior window sample, meaning only lead,

which is still an element of GSR. And then from these findings, he was able to conclude that the inside of the vehicle was absolutely in the vicinity of a digital. discharged firearm or came into contact with an item or person who had GSR on them that last a little bit or or maybe just someone that had had contact with them was a little but they're saying GSR was absolutely found in this Jeep well that's all really Trina K needed so up next was Lori's turn to cross-examine Mr. Mueller she started by asking him to clarify the three elements of GsR again. Having all three means that the particles are unlikely, again, to come from anything other than a firearm. Like, it's pretty certain if all three are there, it's a firearm. Well, having only

one or two could indicate the particles could maybe come from an environmental source, maybe from a firearm. From the GP, he located two areas that had all three particles, meaning it was definitely gunshot residue. So Lori asked if the gun was shot in the back of the Jeep would Mueller usually expect to find more GSR. He said that since he's just looking at samples of an area, he's not necessarily concerned with the number in his analysis. He's only concerned if GSR is present at all, not how many times it's present or what area of the vehicle. Well, prosecutor Trina came back for a brief redirect. She asked if there were any other consumer products such as fireworks, brakes, dust, hair spray, fertilizer that would contain all three

elements of GSR. And Mueller said, no, they would not. Boom. The next witness, I mean, like guys, a gun was shot from a Jeep that Alex Cox was in that belongs to Lori. I mean, if this was a clue, we're really getting there, right? Like, we're really getting there. This evidence is dropping. And it's, It's piling. And so after all that, what could we have more? Well, the next witness was Detective Ray Hermesio, who was a lieutenant for the Rexburg Police Department in southeast Idaho.

And I'd like to remind you all that it was Detective Ray Hermescio, who found the children's remains in Chad DeBell's Yard of June of 2020, five years ago yesterday. And, yeah, an incredible man, a hero in my eyes. So he explained his background. People in Arizona don't know him. He's from Idaho, but also nobody knows about this case. So they don't know who he is.

So he started as a patrol officer, he explains, in 2001, and was promoted to detective in 2019. On November 1st, 2019, her Macyo spoke with Detective McDermott from the Gilbert Police Department in Arizona. So now Idaho and Arizona are chatting back and forth, and he was asked to aid the Gilbert Police by locating and impounding a 2018 Jeep Wrangler with a Texas license plate, LWD-0997. He was given a probable cause statement and an address to focus on to locate the vehicle. He obtained a search warrant and made his work. way to Lori Vallow's address. She was actually Lori Debel at that time, but not as many people

know. They performed surveillance and were unable to locate the Jeep on November 1st. They took photos of the people going in and out of the garage and to remind people this timeline. Someone else said they like it when I lay out dates and to do it again. The children were killed in September, October, at the beginning of October, was the shooting of Brandon. October 19th, Tammy Daybill dies. November 1st is before the welfare check for JJ and Tiley. That came at the end of, or mid-November.

So this is the police starting to put the pieces of the puzzle together. They're working together now. So he performed surveillance and they were un-eastern, able to locate the Jeep though on November 1st. But Detective Hermesio and others, they took photos of the people going in and out of the garage at the residence, and they saw Lori getting into a blue Nissan road. And on November 4th, 2019, Hermesio was on his way home from the gym

and glanced over at Lori's neighborhood. And he saw the Jeep parked outside. So what did he do? He called a tow company right away to come seize the Jeep and bring it to their indoor impound lot. He notified the Gilbert Police Department that the Jeep had been seized and he attempted to contact Lori

to let her know they took it. They were never able to make contact with Lori and no one ever, this is fascinating to me, no one ever called the police department to report it stolen or find out where the Jeep went. They just seized it and that was that. Lieutenant Hermesio was present when the search warrant was executed on the Jeep.

He noticed that the windows were very dark and learned that it had been recently retinted. And then a receipt was located inside the Jeep that came from the Phoenix area on October 1st, 2019. Detective from Rousseo thought that was very relevant because they were investigating a shooting that took place there in Arizona on October 2nd, and here he is in Idaho. But yeah, I mean, think about this.

they get a burner phone. And he uses, he keeps the receipt. Then he goes to Phoenix. Lori was just earlier this morning trying to convince all of us that maybe Alex didn't even go to the Phoenix area because the only license plate, you know, photo taken was like 150 miles away from Phoenix. But no, no, Alex comes with the receipts, the literal receipts. showing that he was eating in the Phoenix area.

So that, you know, poking holes in that evidence is not going to work for Lori because he was definitely in Phoenix on October 1st, 2019. So Ray Hermesio felt this receipt was relevant because they were investigating a shooting that happened in Arizona on October 2nd. Indeed, it was. And Alex didn't even bother to clean out the car when he returned. Later in November, Hermesio conducted more surveillance at Lori's residence and came in contact with Chad DeBal and Alex Cox on November 26. So this would be sort of the welfare check.

And he saw them unloading Alex's the F-150 truck and putting items in Lori's garage. He also became aware that both Alex and Melanie had moved. So Melanie, Melanese, Melanie Boudreau-Pulowski had moved into units. into the same townhome complex. Can you say Colt? Colt disforming, let's all move to Rexburg, Idaho. And on November 27th, the search warrant was executed for all three of their residents, and Lori looked as if all of her belongings were quickly packed. Her Moseo also located documentation of a storage unit rental agreement for Lori. The facility was about a half a mile away from the townhomes. That's when I knew. We were getting to the storage unit video,

finally. And in Laurie's garage, they located during a search warrant several boxes that looked as if someone was moving as well as passports and bills with Alex's name. They also located several weapons, including rifles and a lot of ammunition. One of the rifles had a scope and a few had threaded barrels, meaning that a silencer could be attached at the end. So if you remember, Brandon thought he saw a silencer, That doesn't mean it completely silences a rifle, but it could make it quieter and these rifles had barrels, meaning a silencer, could be attached to the end. So Hermesio testified that he obtained documentation from the day Lori rented the storage unit, which was on October 1st. He also obtained surveillance video from the facility from October 2nd and 3rd.

And in the footage, he saw Lori's blue Nissan Rogue coming and going from her storage unit, unit C-52. There was also footage of Alex's truck. And on October 1st, after Lori rented the unit, she was seen placing various items inside. Can you believe it? They rented the unit. On October 2nd, Lori and Chad were captured, removing a spare truck tire, from Lori's trunk, as well as what appeared to be a bench seat and placing them in the storage unit. Let me just explain what we saw on this October 2nd surveillance video at the storage unit.

It was Chad DeVell and Lori, because Alex was in clearly Arizona at that time, right? October 2nd is when Brandon had to call 911 because someone shot at him. they are unloading a spare tire as well as a backseat that doesn't belong to the rogue belongs to another car we know which one i have to love how ray hermeseo was explaining how chad dable was rolling the tire into the storage unit i feel like it's an underrated detail of this case we'll get into that in a little bit more so i want to say too that during this moment jurors were smiling or two jurors were smiling one juror was smiling very big there's there's somebody in the back row in the middle that uh doesn't have a poker face and today he was smiling during

this video and looking at his neighbor there was a smile together he doesn't hide it it was it was interesting so on october third footage was captured of lori and alex going into the c five two units. So the next day, so Alex is clearly back and can help Lori. Alex removed the bench seat and tire and put them back into Lori's Nissan. So let's listen to Trina's comment here. See two people coming in. Is that going to unit C-52? Yes, ma'am. Do you recognize who those two people are? Yes, I do. Who do you recognize those two people as? that is Lori Vallow again and her brother Alex Cox So we're now on October 3rd at 112 p.m.

Correct. What does it appear that Alex Cox is carrying out? Looks like a seat. Like a bench seat? Bench seat that's kind of folded. So we could see the two parts of that. Correct. And if we can go to 3-1-254,

What do we see being taken out now? That is a tire that he's carrying. So the previous day we'd seen Chad Daybell rolling the tire in. Here we see Alex Cox carrying it out. Correct. Oh, I loved it when Trina Kay said that and pointed out what I've been saying for years. Somebody commented once and said, Lauren, I love how you always like to point out that Chad Daybell rolled the tire in Alex

Cox lifted it. And I do. Because like I said, this is an underrated detail in this case, because if you want to know who Chad Daybell is, that's who he is. He is six foot three. He's very tall. And an accidental cult leader, somehow that happened. And so lazy that this guy can't even lift a Jeep tire because his wife did everything. It has very broad implications to me. He was so lazy. He was a potato. Alex Cox, at least could lift it. And Trina Kay pointed that out. You saw Chad Dayball rolling it and Alex Cox lifting it. Of course, I know, I know. This is not what matters to the jury. I realize that. It matters to me. And it doesn't matter to evidence that would create a conviction. But I just have to point that out. But what did matter to the jury is also

what we saw there. That the tire was carried into the storage unit on October 2nd without Alex, because Alex was out of town, shows the conspiracy right there. It was Lori without Alex. That's what I was saying during my lunch life, but they needed to show that not just Alex was involved, but the conspiracy was Lori. Having her taking care of this tire without Alex Cox around is big. And the jury really doesn't know too much about Chad Deval this time around, just Lori. And again, the Jeep belongs to Lori, as does the rogue.

So this idea, too, that Chad was driving her there to do it. This was Lori's car. and Lori's possession in the car that she had clearly taken off of the Jeep that she now also owns because her husband is dead. So then the very next day on October 3rd, the day after the shooting, Alex is then with Lori, taking the tire back out to put back on the Jeep, carrying it out, not rolling it. And this, I think, is sort of the smoking gun to this case. It is showing conspiracy. There is one common denominator in those two videos.

And it's not Chad and it's not Alex. It's Lori Valo Deval. And it's also both of her cars. One of her cars is there and the other. than the tire and then the backseat of the other car she owns. The big moment. And Trina Kaye pointing out, Chad could only roll the tire.

Never been anything but lazy. And now he sits a death row. Next, Lieutenant Hermesio stated that he was familiar with the Unified Sportsman Club, which is an outdoor practice shooting range in Rexburg that the public can go. to practice shooting rifles and a warrant was issued to obtain the club's sign-in record. So this is where we get to the shooting range evidence.

Hermesiel located Alex Cox's name and phone number on the sign-in record on September 3rd, 2019, and on September 27th and 28th. There were sign-ins using the name C-Quint, which Hermescia recognized as similar to Alex's custom license plate C-P-Quint. Again, not the brightest bulb when it comes to hiding evidence. Alex also researched places to go shooting around the time period as well. And then Trina moved on to discuss the burner phone that Alex purchased from Walmart in Idaho Falls on September 25th, 2019. This, I want to point out, burner phone purchased two days after Alex's phone was pinged and Chad Dable's yard. and when police suspect J.J. Valo was buried.

We'll not suspect the conviction happened when they know that was in J.J. Valo was buried. Two days after that, he's purchasing a burner phone, a Walmart in Idaho Falls, which is close to Rexburg, and this same phone was used in Gilbert, Arizona, to call Chad Daybell on October 2nd, the day of the shooting. Why Chad has never been charged with anything in Arizona beats me, but I digress.

Next, Trina Kay stated that on September 26, 2019, Melanie flew from Arizona to Idaho, and a search warrant was obtained for her flight records. She returned to Idaho to, she returned from Idaho, excuse me, to Arizona on September 29. And then on December 30, 2019, after Alex had died, a search warrant was written to obtain the Google Gmail records for Alex Cox's cell phone. And that email was Homer J. Maximus at gmail.com.

He liked the Simpsons. So Homer J. Maximum at gmail.com. These records contained searches, GPS, and Wi-Fi mapping information that was provided to the FBI cast analyst Nick Balance. He's an important guy. FBI cast analyst guys. We're going to hear from him tomorrow. tomorrow. The searches included places to shoot near Rexburg, window tint shops, how to load your own ammunition, best projectiles. Guys, these are Google searches. Are you listening to these?

Places to shoot near Rexburg, window tint shops, how to load your own ammunition, best projectiles for long range ballistic charts and trajectory calculators, and a man shot in Gilbert, Arizona, despite being in Idaho. There were maps. to Dan's window tinting at 3-875 East Phelps Street, which, and then that was Brandon's address in Gilbert, Arizona, the 3875 East Phelps. Alex searched for maps for Brandon's address on October 1st and the morning on October 2nd before the shooting.

He also searched for a route back to Idaho Falls. And next, Trina stated that Google provided subscriber information for the Homer J. Maximum. account using Google Chrome on September 24th. I want to point out the day after little J.J. Valo was buried. Using Google Chrome on September 24th, Alex viewed a YouTube video on how to load your own ammunition. He also searched, quote,

best projectile for long range within with 300 Winchester Mag, end quote. And on September 27th, he searched, quote, minute of angle, end quote. On September 28th, he searched, quote, ammunition and ballistic trajectory calculators, end quote. On September 30th, he searched Phoenix weather. In October 3rd, he searched, quote, man shot in Gilbert, Arizona, and news on Brandon Boudreau, end quote.

Guys, it is piling and piling and piling the evidence. Next, Kermasio testified that he was also issued a search warrant for Google Gmail records associated with Lori's phone number. The account was Lolly Time Forever at gmail.com. I want to remind you that the deceased sister she had that was just older than Lori that she never met, a sister that died as a baby, her nickname was Lolly. So the account was Lollie Time Forever at gmail.com and they contain searches such as how to get the backseat out of my Jeep. She also watched a video on how to remove the seat. And then, of course, she was seeing putting the bench seat in her storage unit. Her misceo was also provided with subscriber information for LolliVallo at Lolli Time Forever, which she provided to Alex

as her new email address. Okay. And on October 3rd, this account searched for Gilbert, Arizona News and Gilbert News breaking headlines. Oh, dear. It continues. The evidence keeps piling. The day after the shooting, Lori and Alex were seen retrieving the spare tire and bench seat out of the storage unit and putting them back in her Nissan Road.

Shockingly, Lori had no questions for Detective Vermisio. And with that, court ended for the day. All right. Well, guys, thank you so much. I will sign off. Well, then we'll get some good rest because tomorrow is going to be a very big day and we will be there for it.

Well rested and ready to go. All right. We'll see you. Bye bye. Before I switched to Wealthfront, my APY was probably 0.1. Once I switched, chiching. With a Wealthfront cash account, earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. I can trust.

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