Hidden True Crime - Surprising Witnesses Bring Receipts & Lori's FEISTY Cross Exam | Lori Vallow Daybell Day 3

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

The courtroom was packed as Lori Vallow Daybell's latest trial resumed in Phoenix. Day 3 brought explosive testimony, including a gripping cross-examination of a key witness and new revelations about the alleged conspiracy to murder Brandon Boudreaux. Brandon Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnLc7I2gyWtQ2L4_aCtEOlvmFBxegNf56&si=B6BQJgzco69lYoWL Limited Trial Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/hidden-true-crime-limited-merch/ About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at ⁠Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3% base APII as of January 30th, 2020, is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA, SIPC, not a bank. Hello, everyone. June 9th, 2020, five years ago today, I remember it vividly. It was the day that the remains of JJ, Valo, and Tiley Ryan were found buried in Chad Daybell's backyard. I was already emotionally invested by then.

How could I not be? My husband, John, a criminal psychologist, and I had just recorded our very first podcast episode. We were sitting at our kitchen table with microphones and a hundred unanswered questions between us. That morning, I woke up to the news. The search warrant had been executed at Chad Daybill's property, but not. Not the house this time. It was his yard. I was messaging a local contact in Rexburg who saw Chad leave his daughter Emma's house

and speed off in his car. And it's later, they watched police pull him over and handcuff him. Finally. I will never forget the heartbreak of hearing Larry and Kay Woodcock confirm that JJ had been found their beloved grandson, their little man, as they called him. Later, we learned it was Brandon Boudreau. The same Brandon now testifying here in Arizona who stepped forward to identify JJ's remains. Meanwhile, East Idaho News's Nate Eaton was overhead in a chopper reporting what he saw unfold in that backyard.

But none of us could have known, not yet, how horrific the scene truly was. Tiley, she was so mutilated that her remains couldn't even be identified by sight. That detail would come later. and it would haunt us. Over the years, I have heard from so many people sharing where they were on that day, how they felt what it did to them. Heather Daybao, Chad's sister-in-law, spoke of her tears. We all saw the Woodcocks hold each other and sob when the news was confirmed.

And today, Colby Ryan, Lori's only surviving child, shared his pain in a post on his YouTube channel. Colby J. Ryan is his YouTube channel. He writes, quote, five years ago, I got one of the worst calls possible. Colby, Chad's been arrested. They found human remains at his property. I remember where I was and what I was doing. I also remember in that moment a tangible hug wrapping my body.

Nothing will ever be the same. But I find peace in this picture. Tiley and JJ will never be forgotten. I love you both. And here we are five years later. Today is day three of yet another trial, Lori Daybell's third trial. And this time she's on trial in Phoenix for the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreau, the same man who had to identify seven-year-old JJ's body five years ago to the day.

And I keep asking myself, how are we still here? How is she still here? still arguing, still manipulating, still claiming innocence, still filing motions, still appealing her conviction, still demanding to be heard after silencing so many. We know what she and Chad have done. Both were convicted of murdering Tiley JJ and Chad's wife, Tammy Daybell. Lori was convicted again just weeks ago for the murder of Charles Vallow, her fourth husband, And now this trial, the attempted murder of Brandon. And still she fights. She lies. She smiles. She represents herself. And it reminds me of something Judge Boreski said directly to Lori in court. Are you done? That line echoes in my head. It's what we've all wanted to scream. Are you done yet? Are you done? Because the destruction she's cause is immeasurable and the fact that we're still here, she is still here, that she is

still here is maddening. But I know that I am not alone. So many of you are asking the same question, especially after what happened Friday when Lori was kicked out of the court for talking back to the judge. I can't tell you how many of you reached out. Some even told me you packed your bags this weekend and traveled here in person because you couldn't believe this woman is still fighting, still spinning her story, still playing the role of the persecuted prophetess. But she is not the victim. She never was. JJ and Tyler were.

Tammy was. Charles was and Brandon. Brandon is still living with the aftermath on the stand last week facing the woman who tried to have him. killed. We'll have more on the trial in a moment. But first, I just had to say on this day of remembrance that we hold JJ and Tiley in our hearts. We honor them and we remind the world that they will never be forgotten. To the trial today, day three. Lori strolled into court just after 10.30 this morning wearing a black blazer and a purple top. Her hair

was curled and down, and I dare say, less chit-su pebbles flintstoney than last week. Then things got weird. As soon as Judge Breskes entered, he immediately called for a sidebar, but this wasn't your average whisper at the bench sidebar. No, like, they couldn't just turn on the white noise. We were all removed from the courtroom. Media, public, everyone, marched out into the hallway. And we stayed there for nearly 40 minutes.

No explanation, no announcement, just a whole lot of speculation buzzing around the hallway. Here is what we were asking. Did Lori suddenly decide to plead guilty? Yeah, doubtful. Was she trying to delay things again? Very possible. Or was this one of those closed-door evidentiary hearings maybe about whether the jury can hear about her past crimes? I think that's a solid theory.

But the truth is, we may never know. Because the courtroom cameras were turned off, microphones muted, the long crime photographer came up to me, what's going on? We had to turn off our cameras. Court TV was out in the hallway with us. And when we finally came back in, Judge Boreski didn't offer even a hint of what went down. He simply thanked the jury for their patience

and told them a problem had to be resolved, one that in his words was no one's fault and that the jury should not speculate. We certainly can, but the jury, no speculation. He then added that Detective Pillar would not be finishing his testimony as planned. Instead, would be hearing from a new witness out of order again. And that witness was Danny Moss. Danny appeared in his company's t-shirt, which I give him credit for. it's now on national television, a smart businessman Danny Moss is. And according to that t-shirt and

Trina Kay's questioning, we learned that Danny owns Dan's window tint up in Rexburg, Idaho. And yes, this was a curveball, but a pretty strategic one, because the windows in this case, specifically on the Jeep that was driven by Alex Fox registered to Charles Vallow, they are a key detail in the attempted shooting of Brandon Boudreau. Prosecutor Trina Kaye started by having Danny explain how his business works. It's a small operation, he said, just a couple employees. Clients can be reached however they want. Call, text, email, drop by in person, easygoing setup.

He confirmed that if someone calls the shop, it's either him or one of his team members who answers. And if someone wants to make an appointment, they pull up the calendar right there. If the client can't make it during regular hours, no problem. they can drop the car off after hours, super flexible, and yes, they often text customers available time slots to get the job done. Great advertisement for a company and a great setup for what happens next. Trina then moved him into the more technical territory, asking him to explain the levels of tinting available for car windows. It's not just darker light. There's an actual science to how visible someone

or something is inside a vehicle depending on the tint percentage. And here's Danny explaining those tint levels in his own words. Take a listen. I want to talk a little bit about window tint in general. Are there different levels or percentages of tinting that are put on? Yeah. There's a called the VLT percentage, visual light transmittance. So what your eye can see, not infrared or ultraviolet,

but the visual light that comes through the glass is represented by a number. And the window film manufacturers assign that number to how dark the film is. So 5% window film only lets in 5% of the visible light. 70% lets in 70% of the light essentially looks clear, where 5% of the light. is black, really dark.

So if someone puts 5% VLT onto a vehicle, are you able to see into that car? No. What about 20%? What is that? You can see like a silhouette of somebody that's in there. Okay. And can people do different percentages like front or rear windows? Yep.

Okay. Next, Trina Kay presented Danny Moss with an affidavit, one he had signed to authenticate screenshots from his business phone and from the security camera inside the shop. She walked him through the timeline. On September 23rd at 154 p.m., a phone call came into Dan's window tint from someone asking about getting a Jeep tinted. A couple days later, that appointment

was set for 9 a.m. on September 25th. And that morning, at around 7 a.m., Danny texted the number with an update. The message read, quote, Dan's window tint here. I have a baby doctor appointment at 9, but it won't take long. Tristan should be at the shop to meet you if you still want to drop it off at 9, end quote. And we saw that phone number up on the screen, those of us in the courtroom, the phone number, beginning with an Arizona. Arizona area code. It wasn't ever completely clear in court whose number it was. But a quick search of my ex account from 2023, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, I can confirm the number that Danny texted was Alex Cox's own phone number, not even the

burner phone, just Alex Cox's phone number, the one his mother probably used. We were then shown a photo taken from inside the shop that day. It showed Danny cleaning the windows of that Jeep Wrangler right before applying the tint film. Talk about receipts. Danny was bringing them. It was a familiar color. I would call it ammo, olive, gray, puke, green, the color we all know so well now. Danny explained that Jeep Wrangler's already come with factory tint on the back window.

So when someone requests darker tint, the film goes directly over the factory layer. They don't start over. So in this case, Danny was asked to apply 5% tint, which is extremely dark. He testified that when you layer 5% on top of existing tint, it becomes darker than the standard 5%. He estimated the end result is closer to 2% or 0% visibility, which in practical terms means you cannot see into that vehicle, not in daylight, not through the back. Trina asked him directly, quote, so if someone was laying or sitting in the back of this Jeep, and you tried to walk by and look in there,

you wouldn't be able to see them, end quote. And before Danny could answer Trina's question, Lori objected, claiming speculation, but Judge Boreski barely blinked, overruled. And Danny's answer, no, you would not be able to see inside. He added that while the back windows received 5% tint, the front three windows were given 20%, which is still dark, but allows a limited view from outside. Then Trina circled back to procedure.

She asked Danny if it was normal for people to drop off or pick up vehicles outside business hours. And he said, yes, absolutely. In fact, it happens all the time with Danny's business. And in this case, he never saw the person who dropped off the Jeep. but his security camera did pick up something. He was able to zoom in on the license plate in the footage and take a screenshot. He said the plate was white with black letters, not an Idaho plate. He recognized it as a Texas license plate.

He couldn't make out the characters, but the origin stood out. The jury was then shown the receipt from that day, September 25th, 2019, confirming a $200 charge for 5% tint in the back and 20% tint in the front. Denny reiterated he never saw who picked up the vehicle either, which means it's likely the entire exchange drop off and pickup happened when the shop was closed. And then it was Lori's turn after dramatically asking for a minute to discuss something with her advisory council.

She held up her finger like this, just a minute. Always dramatic, Lori. She chose to not cross-examine Danny. So Danny was then done. But we didn't linger long because we quickly moved on to the next witness, Special Agent Thomas Miller with the Drug Enforcement Administration. Agent Miller has been with the DEA for 27 years and currently serves as the unit chief for the National License Plate Reader Program.

Solid expert. Before we get into what he found, he gave a quick explainer on what the program actually is and how it works. Take a listen. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using wealthfront. Cheching, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. Clients like Angela earn up to 4.2% APY on their cash with the wealthfront cash account. Get started at wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest.

Outcomes vary. 3.3%. As of January 30th, 2026 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA, SIPC, not a bank. Tell us what the National License Plate Reader program is. It's a law enforcement tool that was developed and utilized by the DEA

to enforce its Title 21 statutory authority to facilitate. drug trafficking investigations and any other drug related crimes in the drug trade. So in there we hear the term license plate reader. What is that what is a license plate reader? How does that work? It is a camera that we normally have positioned on any drug known drug route utilized by drug traffickers. A lot of the LPRs have a software. It's called optical character recognition,

or better known as OCR. With this OCR software allows the LPR camera to trigger on the alpha numeric characters on a license plate, and it will create an image or images. And simultaneously, it will also create a XML or a textual file. And at that time, the images and the text file are then paired up and is then saved in the DEA server. Okay. Use the term LPR.

Is that shorthand for something? Yes, a license plate reader. Okay, so it's easier for us to say LPR. Yes. Is there a system called Diesel that relates to the National License Plate Reader program? Yes, Diesel is our tactical query and alert system, and stands for the DEA Special Intelligence Link, and that's how we access the information that is saved from the LPR cameras. Okay. So can law enforcement agencies outside of the DEA access this diesel system to determine if any of the cameras have caught a specific license plate?

Yes. The El Paso Intelligence Center where the diesel platform is located, they will vet state, local, tribal, and other federal law enforcement personnel to have or gain access to our diesel platform. Okay. So certain law enforcement agencies can get access to access diesel to see if a license plate has been read on any of the cameras. Yes, as long as it's they're ingested into our diesel platform. And by ingested, what do you mean? After the LPR camera that does feed into the diesel platform, it will go into the diesel platform where they can access that. Do all of these license plate readers capture like just a photo of the license plate or is it the vehicle? What are we getting in this system?

Depending on the vendor camera and the OCR or the optical character recognition software, it will sometimes give you a visual of just the plate and then other times will be the back plate, possibly depending on the position of another camera, the front plate, and sometimes an overall picture of the entire vehicle. We then saw the license plate reader photo that captured the back of the Jeep traveling near Holbrook, Arizona on the I-40 towards Gilbert on October 1st, 2019, at 6.52 a.m. Just days after the window tinting and just one day before Brandon Boudreau was shot at. And because of the time change in Arizona not participating in daylight savings time, it would have actually been 552. AM, the window tinting happens in Idaho, followed by a timely Arizona road trip, all with Texas

license plates, and then that infamous green color. I just want to lay out what we've learned already today. It is looking pretty solid. And I'm not sure how anyone could argue this isn't the car traveling now to Arizona for a crime that the jury is here listening. about. Oh, except Lori can and she does argue about all of the evidence so far. And we will listen to that cross-exam here. And when it was time, I just want to say for Lori to cross-examine, it began with, in my opinion, a very comical moment after an objection. Just take a listen. Let's watch this cross-exam together. Mr. Thomas, is that the only picture? that you have in Arizona on October 1st of the Jeep Wrangler?

I'm sorry? Is it the only picture, license plate reader picture that you have in Arizona on October 1st? Yes, that's the only picture in our diesel platform. Okay. And how many license plate readers do you have in Gilbert, Arizona? I am not sure on how many we exactly have. have you have any yes we do this one on Gilbert Road isn't there that I'm I'm not sure we we have over 11,000 cameras that feed into the diesel platform okay what

about in Mesa Arizona are you aware of any in Mesa Arizona I am unaware how many cameras that we have been at Arizona we do have quite a few cameras LPR cameras in Arizona. And so of all those cameras that you have along this way when this incident happened in Guilver, Arizona, you don't have any other pictures of this Jeep. Is that correct? No, but there's several reasons why there may or may not be. A lot of times we do have software and hardware issues with our LPR cameras, so they will be down at times. depending on speed, how old the camera is, sometimes speed and the amount of traffic

will also have a bearing on whether or not an image is captured. And then there's ways to defeat LPR cameras as well. There are ways to defeat them? I'm sorry? There are ways to defeat them? Yes. Interesting. Your Honor, I object to that and move to strike defendant's comments.

The jury should disregard the noise that the defendant made after that answer. All right, go ahead and ask your question. So Mr. Miller, of all your cameras, you have no other pictures on October 1st, 2019, of that G. Do you bring that? Is that correct? I'm going to object to ask and answer twice already. It is asked and answered, but he can go ahead and answer one more time.

That was that transaction of the diesel siding was the only one in diesel. Okay. So on October 2nd, you have no other pictures of this G. Frangler as well. Is that correct? I'm not for sure if that ever was ran. I'm not for sure. What does happen is DEA does have a retention policy. where as information or data that goes into the diesel platform is then expunged or deleted

or purged from the diesel platform after 90 days. And you don't have any from October 3rd as well. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. So you don't have any from October 1st, October 2nd, or October 3rd. Is that correct? Not to my knowledge. And do you know how far from Gilbert, Arizona, Holbrook, Arizona is? I'm not for sure the exact distance. Would you be surprised if it was 173 miles?

You're an object to speculation. Witnesses already indicated if he doesn't know. He can answer if he knows. I don't know that. So that would be about three hours from Gilbert, Arizona? The objection sustained. He didn't know how far it was. On redirect, Trina asked whether or not the fact

that they try to tar. Target drug trafficking areas has an impact on where the cameras are placed. And Agent Miller said that yes, it does. They try to target specific corridors and drug routes utilized by drug trafficking organizations. And then Trina seemed to get Lori on this one after Lori tried to assume there were cameras by the DEA in Gilbert. Let's take a listen to more of her noise, which I just have to say, I loved it when Judge Breske. to disregard that noise because that's all Lori really is. I feel like when she cross-examines, but let's take a listen to this.

So you told us that the DEA set up the system for drug trafficking. Is that correct? Correct. Does that then have an impact on where cameras are located? Yes. We specifically try to target drug corridors and drug routes that are used. utilized by drug trafficking organizations. So if you thought there might be some drug corridor

or going through Gilbert, then you might stick a DEA license plate reader there? Correct. Or at least have a law enforcement partner that we will ingest their LPR camera data into diesel. So would it be, can ask this. Are all license plate readers that you see across the country associated to diesel?

No. So just because there may be a license plate reader on Gilbert Road, does that mean that it's part of the diesel system? No. In fact, there's so many different license plate reader programs out there that our program, comparatively to the totality of everything, is very small. So DEA just ingests or has its own small percentage of cameras. Yes.

They don't cover every single camera. No, not at all. You were asked about if a vehicle is driving in a drug trafficking corridor that the DEA is interested in, that there would be ways to defeat or not, I guess, be captured on these license plate readers. do you mean by that? There's definitely ways of, I mean, they will remove their license plate. They will partially cover a plate.

They will change a number temporarily. But a lot of times we will see things that will cover a plate or at least part of the plate to make sure that an LPR does not take an image. And then you said the amount of traffic. So if traffic is busy, is LPR less successful in obtaining all of those vehicles and all of their license plates? Yes. And depending on the age of the camera, there is a failure rate of the images that are taken by an LPR camera.

So if there is a vehicle that is fairly close or tailgating, another vehicle, it may not take a picture of the front vehicle. Ultimately, in this case, what you're able to tell us is that on October 1st of 2019 at about 552 AM, a Jeep Wrangler with a Texas license plate LWD-0997 was going westbound on I-40 in Arizona? Yes, correct. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news, someone's marathon training is about to start.

Sell your workout gear on Deepop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Deepop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Deepop where Taste recognizes taste. I like somebody that said that coughing was a passive-aggressive way too. interrupt it seems like her okays have lessened but her coughing has increased and look i've coughed

during my live streams maybe she's coughing but maybe she's coughing you know there's a lot happening she could probably cover her mouth or turn to the side or wear a mask she's not doing that she's just letting everybody know she's coughing not while she cross-examines just why while the state questions a lot of coughing today. After that, we had a quick sidebar before court and went into lunch recess. And during that, during that sidebar, Lori was actually back to the headphone sets and no longer approaching the bench. I also want to point out that Lori seems so set to sort of create doubt so far in the morning witnesses, you know, sort of give. give people to question things, but I feel like all she is doing is solidifying the information

that they give. It almost feels like her cross-exam is emphasizing what the state wants to drive home. Am I the only one? I mean, you guys tell me, but to try to put speculation into the fact that there's only one picture of the license plate, which is all you need. And then for her to push this scenario that aren't there other cameras in Gilbert and everywhere? And he explains that they're not all DEA cameras. Additionally, there are reasons that they wouldn't necessarily capture the license plate. Anyway, we're at lunch now. Right before lunch, there's a sidebar. But after lunch, we all gather back in, I do my lunch live, we come back into court. And next up on the stand was Emmy Lynn Sapinozo, a forensic scientist with a background to match.

She holds a bachelor's degree in biology and a master's in forensic science. Emmy works at the Orange County DA's office as a forensic scientist right now, but in 2019, six years ago, she was working at Mesa Forensic Sciences as a forensic scientist. She walked the jury through the basics of DNA analysis, what it is, how it works, and how it's used in criminal investigations, laying out that foundation. She explained that a known source of DNA means exactly what it sounds like, a sample collected directly from an individual like saliva, hair, or blood. Once the sample is analyzed in the lab, it becomes a DNA profile, a genetic fingerprint, if you will. In her role, Emmy creates profiles from both known sources and unknown

sources. Those are the samples collected from crime scenes. Back in 2019, the Mesa Police Department had been contracted to handle DNA testing on behalf of the Gilbert Police Department. And in this case, Emmy was tasked with creating a known DNA profile for Alex Cox. So she received what's called a blood blot sample from the coroner's office. If you remember, Alex died in December 2019. So she received this from the coroner's office, a blood blot. And this is not to be confused with a blood clot, which was what we were initially hearing the judge say. It was clarified with Emmy. And a blood blot, this blood blot is a dried blood sample collected on circular filter paper. Scientists take a cutting from that paper to analyze the DNA. And Emmy noted that her process is

carefully documented, every step recorded so that other analysts can later review or verify the findings. And then came the fourth witness of the day, Lisa Perry. Lisa currently supervises the evidence processing unit for Mesa Police Forensic Services, but back in 2019, she was also working as a forensic scientist. She testified about DNA swab. She received on January 2nd, 2020, six in total. Again, this would be after Alex's death, that he died in December the month prior. Six in total, all right, six DNA swaps. And after reviewing her notes, Lisa confirmed each swab was sealed, untampered, and logged properly. Like, that's what you have to lay the foundation for for the jury. These were tested. These were taken appropriately. So here actually is what the swabs were taken from.

I will tell you. So should we have some unknown DNA that we're going to compare probably with the blood clot? Here we are. 64559, the steering wheel. 645891, driver's side seatbelt. 645893, gear shift. 645894, passenger interior door handle. 645895.

lug nuts of the spare tire. Love that one because he was carrying that tire to and from the storage unit. 64586. Driver's Side Interior Door Handle. Lisa explained that for each of these items, she split the sample. Half was placed into a tube for DNA analysis

and the other half was preserved for possible future testing. So once prepped, the samples were passed on to a DNA analyst to create full profiles. Well, Lori Vallow representing herself, chose not to cross-examine Lisa Perry. And with that, Lisa was dismissed from the stand. I find it fascinating who she chooses to cross-examine and who she doesn't. Danny from tinting in Rijksburg?

No. The DEA of taking a solid picture of her license plate? Yes. Lisa Perry, who has created his DNA profiles. No, no thanks. So she was dismissed from the stand. And up next on the stand was retired Gilbert police officer Marianne Rob. And if you remember, we've heard of Officer Rob before.

Remember Officer Rob? The officer that allegedly put her pen in the bullet hole in Brandon's test law scene, well, here she is a person. She, Officer Robb, Marianne Rob, retired on July 9th, 2022 after 34 years of service as a police officer. At the Gilbert Police Department, Rob had many different roles, such as crime prevention officer, arson detective, and property crimes detective, but primarily worked as a patrol officer.

And on October 2nd, 2019, Rob responded to a 911 call for the shooting on West Phelps Street. And when she arrived, she saw a gentleman standing in the street in front of his home and dark Tesla parked in the driveway. Just to the side of the driver's door, she noticed that there was a window laying on the ground. So after scanning the scene, she spoke with Brandon, the gentleman, and then went to look at the Tesla.

And on the frame of the vehicle at the top of the car, she noticed what appeared to be a bullet hole, that bullet hole. And because of her experience with guns both personally and professionally, she recognized it again as a bullet hole. She emphasized a lot. It was a bullet hole. And as we know, when the shooting first occurred, Brandon was startled.

He was a little bit in shock and was trying to piece together what the heck had happened. And since his window didn't crack immediately, he mentioned it possibly being a paintball gun to the 911 operator. Well, he was just thinking out loud, he says, trying to make sense of the situation.

That's what he testified to on the, on last week on the stand. So to Officer Rob, he mentioned it could possibly have been a BB gun. But again, based on her experience, Officer Rob said, quote,

definitely not. When he took a closer look at the hole for himself, Brandon checks out this hole as Officer Robb is pointing it out to him, he said, quote, oh, wow, I didn't see that, end quote. Finally, I guess realizing the gravity

of the situation. And while inspecting the car, Rob wasn't able to immediately see an exit hole. So again, she decided to put her pen through the hole to see if she could figure out the trajectory of where the bullet went, where it came from

and where, what direction it went into the Tesla. After finding where the bullet was, she called one of the officers that was in the area looking for the suspect's vehicle. She needed to let them know what they were dealing with. this was officially a shooting by shooting. This was no BB gun or a paintball gun.

It was a real bullet hole and a real crime, an attempted murder. She asked the officer to come help her start a crime scene. Using her police phone, she began taking photos of the scene as well. Officer Robb said that Brandon initially seemed to be bewildered. It makes sense. Bewildered is probably how most people would feel. she described Brandon's demeanor as quiet and concerned. He didn't know how to react because he was still grappling with what happened.

Brandon explained to her about how the window fell out and shattered after he pulled into his driveway. When she showed him the bullet hole, he said, quote, well, that definitely isn't a BB gun, end quote. While she was questioning him, he said he needed to sit down and needed a minute. She said Brandon sat on the ground and tried to gather himself and his hands were physically shaking. Can you imagine all of a sudden realizing that someone was trying to take your life? And here he is with police surrounding his car. Next, Rob asked Brandon to give a description of the vehicle. He said it was a darkish green Jeep Wrangler.

He said as he was driving westbound on his street, the back of the Jeep blew open and he noticed the muzzle of a weapon pointing out directly at him. He initially thought there was a silencer, but then there was a very loud bang. We've heard that bang. We've seen the bang, heard the bang on the ring camera. And when his window shattered, Brandon said that he got scared and took off around the block.

Brandon told her the direction he drove after being shot at. And while he didn't have the numbers of the license plate, he knew it was absolutely a Texas plate. We were shown photos from the scene, and an orange cone indicated where Brandon had started making the left turn into his driveway as the shooting occurred. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using wealthfronts. Meet Angela, a wealthfront cash account client since 2023. I lost my job, not having something else lined up yet.

I was pregnant with my second. We had to think about how do we make our money work for us. Every month there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. My money is working hard on its own, and I can trust wealth front is taking care of me. With a wealthfront cash account earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. No account fees, no minimums, and no strings attached. Plus, free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts. Get started at wealthfront.com.

Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3% base API as of January 30th, 2026 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees, and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. Trina K then had several questions about gun casings, like other law enforcement witnesses have explained, given the description of the gun, Rob didn't expect to find a casing on the scene.

If the gun was a rifle and only the muzzle was sticking out, the casing would have ejected back into the Jeep itself. Rob also explained that as a Jeep owner herself, she knows that you have to remove the rear spare tire in order to open the back window. Take a listen. Detective, you told us obviously you've been a law enforcement officer, I'm sorry, officer, retired officer for more than 30 years. Have you fired a rifle? Yes, numerous times.

I'm an avid hunter. When you fire a single shot from a rifle, Will a casing always eject? No, it depends on what rifle you're shooting. If you have a bolt action rifle, if you shoot, you need to manually open up the bolt, the project or the casing will go out, will eject, and then you would put another bolt,

or you'd close the bolt and put another round in your gun. If it's a semi-automatic rifle, then yes, as soon as you shoot, the casing will pop out and another bullet will go into the chamber. Based upon what Brandon had told you that he only saw the end of the barrel come out the back window, did you expect to find a casing around here? No, not at all. Why not?

Well, it's a Jeep, and I also have a Jeep Wrangler myself. But the barrel is just kind of right out by the end of the Jeep. where the window goes up, the rest of the rifles inside the Jeep. So wherever that person is, whether it's in the passenger seat, well, if it's two doors, it's got to be the driver's seat, passenger seat area. As soon as the rifle is fired, the bullet comes out, it's going to be right inside the Jeep. It's not going to go out the back end because it's a long rifle. So the casing, if it was a semi-auto, it's going to have fallen right there somewhere, the driver's seat, or maybe in between the passenger seat in that area.

Did you, in fact, tell the other officers and sergeants that arrived at the scene that you didn't expect to find a casing because of that reason? That is correct, yes. You told us that you have a Jeep Wrangler yourself. Yes. In order to open that back window, do you have to remove the rear tire if you want to just open the window? Yes, I mean, even if you didn't have a rear tire, you've got to open up the tailgate. The tailgate comes first, then the window would pop up. So if there's a tire on it and you want to open just the window, it would hit the tire.

That is correct, yes. Okay. After, I guess, as you are collecting this information, did you call to have detectives come to arrive at the scene? Yes, I went back in my patrol car, contacted my sergeant, advised them what I had, and the detectives were dispatched out to the scene. Now, while you were sort of the person who was having contact with Brandon, and you're observing him, having to sit down and shaking, did you talk to her about whether or not he needed someone to come be there with him? Yes, I asked him if he needed a bottle of water. I asked him if there was maybe a family member or friend that could be with him during the investigation. And did,

at some point during the time you were here, did a couple of his friends show up? Yes, they did. Next, Officer Rob said that they taped out the area while waiting for detectives to arrive. One of Brandon's friends was initially in the vicinity of the scene, but was asked to move once they began putting up the tape. And Rob then testified about the moment she was told about Lori and Alex, possibly being a part of the shooting. Take a listen. Did you have a couple different contacts with Brandon as you were gathering information and sort of

going back to your car and making some calls. Yes, I had contact with him in front of his home and also when we had him and his friends go across the street and sit on the grass, the neighbor's house. Before he went across the street to sit, did you try to, or did you talk to Brandon about who he thought might have been responsible for this? Yeah, I asked him if he had any enemies

that would be doing this. And so because of the way that he talked to you about this, where a jeep is parked there and he arrives and the door comes open and a barrel of a rifle comes out, were you trying to determine who might be the person doing that? That is correct, yes. Did Brandon tell you that the only thing he could think of was his soon-to-be ex-wife's family?

Yes, he did. Did he tell you that he thought this might be in relation to an incident that occurred in Chandler? Yes, he did. Did he provide you the names of people who were involved in that incident that he thought might be involved in his shooting? Yes, he did. He said, Lori Vallow and Alex Cox. During your conversation later with Brandon, did he provide you information that Lori Vallow and her husband at the time,

Charles Valo had previously lived in Texas. Yes, she did. Was that significant to you given the fact he told you the Jeep had Texas plates? Exactly. If these folks are from Texas, Texas plates, it's a good possibility to and two together that possibly could be the suspect. Officer Rob wrote down everything Brandon said, including his morning routine, everything that took place that day.

people he thought might want to harm him, all to relay to her sergeant and detectives during their briefing. She was also wearing a body cam to have documentation of the investigation. Rob stayed by Brandon's side until detectives arrived to take over. And when it was Lori's turn to cross-examine Officer Rob, she talked with Pamela Hicks for a few seconds, that's her counsel, before getting up and going to the podium. The first thing Lori wanted to know was how far Brandon was standing in the street when she first arrived. Rob testified that he was maybe two or three feet away from the sidewalk. She parked across the street from his driveway and had Brandon move onto the sidewalk so they could talk about what was happening. They spoke for about five minutes before she made her way to look at the Tesla.

Next, Lori asked why, Officer Rob, why in the world she would put her pen in the bullet. hole. Rob said that she was looking for the projectile and the trajectory of how the bullet went in so she could figure out where it may have exited. Lori seemed to think that sticking your pen in a bullet hole is improper protocol or something. At least that's what our questioning seemed to relay. She kept asking questions like, why did you wiggle your pen around in there? And is that a typical thing to just stick your pen in there. And Officer Rob said, yes, it is a typical thing to do to find trajectory. It's not like she's sticking her pen in the bullet hole of a body. It's a car. And she was trying to see where the bullet went, where it came from, where it was going.

Lori asked if doing that could have dislodged the projectile. But Rob said, no, very confidently, no. And no projectiles were found in the hole itself. Someone else located, the projectiles later. And so let's listen to what Officer Rob was able to determine by utilizing her pen. You figure out the trajectory with your pen? I could see which way it went into the vehicle. And which which way was that? I believe it was it went up. I don't have the picture in front of me, so I don't know it's kind of hard to try to explain, but where the driver would have been and his head, would have been right here. The projectile

and the bullet hole was approximately maybe an inch and a half to two inches above where Brandon's head would have been in the driver's seat and it went up and it would have been kind of an upward motion

into the frame of the car. An upward motion. Kind of going up like this. Okay. And how big was that actual hole that you viewed with your eyes? I did not measure it, but it was definitely a rifle round. Okay. So in your experience with rifles, how big would the bullet,

the rifle bullet be to have to make that size of a hole? Like a typical rifle bullet or something bigger? I don't know much about bullets. If you want me to guess, I would say maybe a 30-odd-six. Okay. And so did you give these trajectory points to when you were briefing the detectives when they got there, what you thought the trajectory was? I did not because they could easily see what was where the trajectory was. I let them make their determination.

You got to love these little things that Lori throws in while she's cross-examining. It doesn't feel fair like she's testifying where she says, sorry, can you explain this? I don't know a lot about bullets. That felt like it should be another objection. She does that a lot. She is there to ask questions, not comment. She is the defendant charged with an attempted murder. So to throw out, sorry, I just don't know a lot about bullets. Could you help me out here? Feels like a moment where she's attempting to testify while cross-examining a witness. I also got to love that she said she doesn't know a lot about bullets. Yeah, Lori, that's because you hire people to do your dirty work.

Next, Lori asked if Officer Rob located anything in the backseat, such as projectiles or glass, but she said she didn't recall. She said the glass seemed to be cracked, but mostly intact on the ground and hadn't been moved. She didn't see a hole where the bullet may have gone through the glass or an exit hole anywhere. It was as if the bullet possibly stopped when it hit the frame of the car.

She didn't see anything. in the hole when shining her flashlight inside of it either. So then Lori brought up that Brandon initially thought the gun could have been a paintball or a BB gun and that there may have been a little boy outside. But Officer Rob again said that she doesn't recall him saying anything about a boy. And I hadn't heard anything about a boy until this trial, honestly. So Officer Rob is saying, don't know what you're talking about there with a little boy. Rob testified that before they put up the crime scene tape,

Brandon's friend was walking around the car. Lori asked if she knew that there was a piece of glass later found in the street, but Officer Rob said she wasn't sure about that. Lori asked if it was possible for Brandon or his friend to have gotten glass on their shoe before the tape was put up and kicked it or moved it into the road. And Rob said that was technically a possibility. it's not impossible. Lori then asked if Officer Rob

thought it was strange for Brandon to be standing in the road after just being shot at since the shooter could have just come back around to shoot again. That's an interesting question, but prosecutor Trina objected to this question for speculation

and it was sustained. It is certainly asking an expert witness to speculate. Next, Lori brought up the word Officer Rob used earlier to describe Brandon. his demeanor, bewildered, that word I pointed out as well that was used. And he wasn't sure what had happened. And so she asked if Brandon showed her a photo on his phone of different greens and

believed that the Jeep was, quote, camo color. Rob said that he showed another officer of the photo, but she did hear him again say camo green. So she was saying that she never heard puke green. But I have to laugh because what is puk green that could be camel green or olive green? Unless you're talking about the emoji, then it's fluorescent. But I mean, really, I just think it's a moot point. It's green.

Everybody's saying it's green. Rob testified that in her estimation, the Jeep would have been about 10 feet away from Brandon when the gun fired. Can you believe that 10 feet? Lori asked if it would be difficult to hit your target with a rifle at only 10 feet away. and Rob said, no, it wouldn't. Lori tried to slip a few more questions in about what the neighbor told Rob and thinking that they saw a blue jeep, but that question was sustained for hearsay. The last question Lori had for Officer Rob was, quote, the only witness you had that heard a loud bang was Brandon. Is that correct?

End quote. And Officer Rob said yes. So I guess Lori is forgetting that the bang was captured. on a neighbor's ring doorbell, which the jury also heard. But nonetheless, we moved on to redirect. And on redirect, prosecutor Trina circled back to clarify why Brandon initially thought the shot could have come from a BB gun. She brought it back up.

And I know a lot of you guys are mentioning this in chat and in emails. It is wild. Yes, both Tammy DeBell and Brandon Boudreau initially thought this has got to be a paintball gun. They were scared enough when someone tried to shoot them, they called 911. They knew it was scary. But then they tried to lessen it, almost like they were in shock and say, maybe it was a paintball gun. To me, it's more confirmation that this is just an initial reaction to shock and terror almost.

That this couldn't possibly be an attempt on their life. Oh, but it is and was. So, Brand initially thought that the shot could have been a BB gun. and she asked if it was because there was no hole to the window coming into the vehicle. And Rob said that was correct. It was clear to her that Brandon had no idea. There was a bullet hole until she pointed it out. Trina also had Rob clarify that just because Brandon was, quote, unquote, bewildered

doesn't mean he wasn't able to articulate what he saw. He could describe the two-door jeep, the back window opening, the lack of a spare tire, the Texas plates, the bang, his window shattering, the color of the Jeep. He was just in shock as any of us would be. I can't imagine and working out in his mind all of the possibilities. The jurors actually had some questions for Officer Rob as well. And, you know, next up then was Detective Ryan Pillar. Finally, we were wondering where he was.

will he finally return to the stand to continue his direct examination from Friday? And the court agreed to go a little out of order again to make sure the state could get in all of their out-of-town witnesses. At least that's what was implied in court. And again, you have to remember, we had two-day delay because of Lori's quote-unquote sickness. And then some witnesses that were flying out had to be canceled and she's had to reschedule them. we've had Idaho witnesses today. So they're working on getting all of their out-of-town witnesses in. So now Pillar is back.

If you recall, he was that lead agent on this case back in 2019 and an integral part of this investigation. And the last thing he discussed was collecting DNA, fingerprints, and gunshot residue from inside the Jeep. Prosecutor Trina picked back up with the collection of GSR or gunshot residue. and after collecting the GSR and DNA swabs, they were carefully bagged, sealed,

and given their own identification numbers. And while processing the Jeep, Detective Pillar took photos for documentation, and we were shown photos of the impounded Jeep, which had seals in all of the doors to show they had not been open prior to being processed. The tinting was also, again, particularly dark, thanks to Danny Moss,

and you could not see into the windows without shining a flashlight right up against them. The spare tire had also been put back in place, and the license plate was from the state of Texas and registered to Lori Vala, which is interesting that had already been changed because we'd always heard it as registered to Charles Vala we're hearing Charles Lurie.

Next, Detective Pillar explained that due to what Brandon described at the scene, he wanted to check for gunshot residue primarily in the back cab of the Jeep and around the back width. window frame. They also checked around the rear and driver's side window, the passenger and driver's side front seat, and the ceiling of the Jeep. At the time they were processing the Jeep, they weren't aware that the rear bench seat had been removed during the incident. And next, Pillar testified the areas he wanted checked for potential DNA. He's included the steering wheel, inner and outer door handles,

the gear shift, the driver and passenger seatbelt buckles, and the lug nuts that hold the spare tire in place. At this time, they weren't aware if there was one or more people in the Jeep during the shooting. They didn't know. You couldn't see inside. And with their getaway driver, they had to wonder, right? Admittedly, I've also wondered. But they dusted those same areas as well as all of the mirrors and back window for fingerprints, but no viable prints were located. Hiller testified that inside the vehicle, they located registration and insurance information for Charles and Lori Vallow. And after collecting all of the evidence, the items were transported from Rexburg, Idaho to the Gilbert Police Department to be impounded. Eventually, the items were sent to be tested by either the Phoenix or Mesa Police Departments.

And that blood blot with Alex's DNA was also sent for comparison to the DNA located inside the Jeep. Next, Detective Pillar explained that he was responsible for requesting search forrants to obtain cell phone records for numbers associated with Lori and Alex. He analyzed their phone logs for October 2, 2019, and found that there was a call from Alex to Lori at 902 a.m. Idaho time, which would be 802 a.m. Arizona time. This would have been approximately 35 minutes after Brandon left his home for the morning. The call lasted around 24 minutes. That's a long phone call.

At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using Wellfront. Checking. Meet Angela, a wealthfront cash account client since 2023. I lost my job, not having something else lined up yet. I was pregnant with my second. We had to think about how do we make our money work for us. Every month, there's this much that I'm getting an interest in. I didn't have to do anything.

My money is working hard on its own, and I can trust Welfront is taking care of me. The wealthfront cash account earn up to 4.2% APY on your cash. No account fees, no minimums, and no strings attached. Plus, free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts. Get started at wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3% base API as of January 30th, 2026, is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks.

0.65% new client boosts for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA, SIP, seen out of bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. Pillar also obtained records for Melanie's phone number, who as we know was Brandon's soon-to-be ex-wife at the time, Lori's niece, a niece that she considers a daughter. During his investigation, the FBI informed Detective Pillar that he had located a track phone that was used during the time frame of the shooting in Gilbert. A search warrant was issued for the

track phone number, which turned out to be subscribed to a Gmail account that belonged to Alex. From the warrant, Pillar was able to determine that the track phone was purchased from a Walmart in Idaho Falls. That's right by Rexford. It was activated on September 26, 2019, and used only until October 2, 2019. This track phone, or a burner phone, as it's also called, the track phone's call log shows that it only ever communicated with one phone number, which belonged to Chad Daybell. The logs show that the track phone, aka a burner phone, communicated with Chad's phone leading

up to and immediately after the shooting took place. And with all of these records, Pillar decided to reach out to the FBI for assistance with tracking and cell phone data analysis. Ah, when the FBI enters the picture. An FBI cellular data analyst was able to track and map location, of the phone during the time frame of the shooting, we will likely, I'm assuming, get to see these maps from the data analysts themselves, and that was all from direct examination. Up next was Lori's turn to cross-examine detective pillar,

something that never happened on Friday, something we've been waiting for. He testified that he's been the lead case agent for a couple hundred different cases. It's the case agent's responsibility to review all the reports made by the other, officers, lab techs, and questioned the findings. Lori moved on to questioning Brandon's recollection of the color of the Jeep again and wanted

to know what color he originally told Officer Rob. Well, Pillar testified that he initially referred to it as a green colored Jeep and then a camo green. I'll see a trend. Green is the trend. Throw in a little gray, throwing a little puke, throwing a little camo. But guys, I think pretty consistently everyone knows this Jeep is green. Other witnesses referred to it as various colors, which led him to surmise that it was just a darker colored wrangler, though.

But I think, again, chalk it up to being green. He doesn't specifically remember anyone saying dark blue, but that somehow has been brought up. But again, it always goes back to green. Anyway, next, Lori pointed out that in all of his reports, Pillar referred to the Jeep as gray, and wanted to know where he first gleaned that information. Well, he testified that he first became aware of the Jeep being gray after having contact with the Chandler Police Department on October 9th. Brandon and the neighbors never called it, though, a gray Jeep.

Next, Lori stated that only one small piece of glass was located in the road and wanted to know if it was ever tested to see if it actually belonged to the Tesla window. Heller testified, no. It was not tested because it was consistent with the other shards of glass and he believed it to be related. Lori also said that in the body cam, Brandon could be seen shuffling glass around with his foot and wanted to know if it was possible for him to have moved the glass into the road on his shoe. Trina wanted to object for speculation, but Pillar was too fast and answered that it was possible. and Judge Breske did allow the answer to stand. Pillar testified that he and 11 other detectives

participated in the line search of the neighborhood looking for other pieces of evidence like glass, bullet fragments, and projectiles. No additional evidence was located in the line. They also used a metal detector to search around the area for more fragments. And just like earlier, when Lori asked Officer Rob about a neighbor

claiming to see a blue jeep, she asked Pillar if the same neighbor told him, that she saw a tire on the back. Trina objected and it was sustained for speculation and Lori requested a sidebar, but her request was denied. So I just want to say that she is really trying to confuse the jury about the color of the Jeep.

I don't know where the dark blue thing is coming from. Sounds like it's almost like testimony from Lori, but you know, we're hearing a lot of things. We've heard gray. It is true. But olive green often is agreeing with gray in it. that's not necessarily not accurate. Additionally, people have pointed out as well that gray and green, if you are colorblind, which many men are, those are often two colors that are mixed up.

But nonetheless, like I said, green seems to be the overlying trend. Lori then asked why no measurements, though, were taken to see how far away the Jeep was from the Tesla when the shot was fired. And Pillars said they didn't measure because they didn't know exactly where the Jeep was located. Makes sense. But Lori argued that if the Jeep was said to be nose to nose with the white van, they would know exactly where it was located. But Pillar still said that without the Jeep actually being there,

it would only be an estimation. Next, Lori asked if the police department ever decided what the trajectory of the bullet was, and Pillar said, no. They could not accurately figure the trajectory measurements because they didn't know the exact height, distance, or angle in which it came from. And they can't determine that would just be hole on the Tesla alone. especially since the Tesla had been moved. Next, Lori wanted to know if Pillar knew what kind of gun was used,

and I just want to take a listen to some of that line of questioning here. There's dozens of types of ammunition that are made, both of which can be utilized by a handgun or a rifle. Information I was provided at least seems that a rifle was the most reasonable weapon that was utilized to shoot at Mr. Boudreux car. but to give an answer for the type of ammunition, whether it be coming from a specific weapon, I cannot answer that.

Okay, and you're the case agent, is that correct? Yes. This is your investigation, is that correct? Yes. So did you not think it would be a good idea to do whatever kind of testing you could find out to find out what kind of gun this was? There would be no way to find out what kind of gun this was.

There's no way to determine if it was a rifle versus a handgun. No. There's no way to determine whether it was taken from 30 feet or 10 feet. No. There's no way to determine if it was going up or going down. No. There's no way to determine if it was going left or it was going right. There's evidence to show that it was going eastbound while the vehicle was traveling westbound.

Snarky, right? Very snarky, at least in my opinion. You guys noticed it too. And trust me, I don't think that the jury. isn't picking up on that as well. A lot of you have been asking what the jury was doing. I was going to save that for the end, but just to let you guys know,

today the jury was paying attention. They were taking notes. There were some poker faces. There are a couple of jurors that show facial expressions, and I've explained it once, as it could be either confused, concerned, you know, take your pick sort of a scowl, if you will. But I will say if they are a little bit confused,

today, I don't think that that's impossible because the witnesses are going out of order. That might be confusing for this jury. Or maybe it's just Lori that is confusing to them. Who is this woman and why does she act this way? I don't think that Lori right there as you saw her being snotty is not being unnoticed by the jurors. So Lori is trying to show. that there are no tests to show the kind of gun that was used, the trajectory, or anything concrete and definitive. I mean, so she's right, trying to poke a hole or a pen into the evidence. Next, Lori, though, asked Detective Pillar how familiar he is with license plate readers. He said he's familiar, but not an expert.

And he doesn't believe there were many around Gilbert in 2019. It's interesting. He explained that crime analysts assist in finding hits a particular license plate numbers using license plate readers. The Jeep hit on October 1st in Holbrook, Arizona, but none were hit directly in Gilbert, only on the highway.

Lori pressed that there were no license plate hits in the area on October 2nd or October 3rd, and Pillar did have to agree. So, you know, right. Next, Pillar explained that he met up with detectives in Chandler, and received photos of the Jeep from the Jeep from Lori's garage, which provided him with the license plate number

that he was able to match the one. In Holbrook, he also requested help from the FBI to help with cellular data analysis and mapping. Next, Lori asked if Detective Pillar ever received any information from the private investigator that Brandon Hyde. He said that he did not and only spoke to him briefly just after October 2nd. Well, Lori wanted to ask if he knew that the private investigator

was hired to track down Melanie. But Trita objected due to hearsay. And the judge warned Lori that this could open up doors she doesn't want opened. I just think it's fascinating that she really is attempting to throw her niece that she says was like a daughter to her. Why would that surprise me?

You know, Kylie's no longer alive. And that was her literal daughter. But she is throwing her niece under the bus, even if she says she's not, she is. Anyway, they warned her that she doesn't want to open these doors, such as why Brandon would be afraid for his life and wanting to hire a PI because Charles had just been murdered. Lori asked Pillar to go over what took place when he arrived at the scene after the shooting

and the recording he made of his first interview with Brandon. A private company transcribed this interview And if you recall for Brandon's testimony, he believes some of the wording may have been mistranscribed. Detective Pillar testified that never happens, right? No, never, you know, I, you know, TikTok transcriptions are always perfect. No, just kidding. Close caption. No. But anyway, so some of the wording may have been mistranscribed according to Brandon. And Detective Pillar testified that, yes, sometimes there are errors in true inscriptions. Surprise. But he didn't go back to check to see if there were any errors.

Lori briefly began asking questions about Brandon turning his phone over for data collection, but Judge Brescu paused and sad. We will pick up tomorrow. And what is tomorrow? Tomorrow is day four of the trial. And we have seven, potentially eight witnesses left. And let me tell you who they are. Those are Jason Biggs, Patrick Young, Vanessa, me, Mielke, forgive me.

if I butchered her last name. Kyle Mueller, Ray Hermesio. We know him, Ray Hermesio, Detective Hermesio from Rexburg, Idaho, who is the one who secured the search warrant for the Jeep. We have Nicholas Balance. He has testified at Lori's previous trials and actually is the FBI agent

who can't be showing camera because of his undercover work. And then we have Timothy Zane Deloche. we haven't heard just yet who will be tomorrow, but given all of the out-of-town witnesses today and the focus on the Jeep and the focus on the DNA, here are my top two guesses. My top two guesses would be forensic scientist Vanessa

or Ray Hermesio who impounded the Jeep in Idaho. But alas, that's speculation. We will have to wait until tomorrow to see how it all plays out. will say that I have been surprised at how quickly this is going. And if Lori once again does her thing and doesn't have a defense or witnesses, this really, I think, could conclude this week. But we will see. We will see. Seven witnesses is still a lot. And they don't have to call them all. They didn't call all of their witnesses for Charles Vallow's trial. But we will see. We will see.

All right, I am going to sign off. I just want to end by again thanking everyone. You all make this possible for me to attend trial. And I want to thank tonight also my better half, Dr. John Matthias, John, as I call him at home. Don't worry. Many people say, do you call him Dr. John at home? No, I don't. But he has been holding down the fort at home.

I can see. He always does supporting me attending. these trials that are so important to us. And yeah, so thank you to him. And also, as always, may justice please serve. Finish up, Lori, because we are done. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using wealthfront. Cheching, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. Clients like Angela earn up to 4.2% APY on their cash with the wealthfront cash account. Get started at Wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary. 3.3%. 3.3% base APY as of January 30th, 2026, as representative variable and earned on

funds swept to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. At my bank, I was literally getting pennies using Wealthfront. Cheching, there's this much that I'm getting an interest and I didn't have to do anything. Clients like Angela earn up to 4.2% APY on their cash with the Wealthfront cash account. Get started at Wealthfront.com. Client was paid $1,000 for their testimonial, creating a conflict of interest. Outcomes vary.

3.3%. Base API as of January 30 at 2026 is representative variable and earned on funds swept to program banks. 0.65% new client boost for three months on up to $150,000. Direct deposit $1,000 a month and fund an investing account for a 0.25% increase. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank.