Hidden True Crime - TIM BALLARD EXPOSED: Forensic Psychologist John Matthias

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Many consider Tim Ballard a hero; a man fighting human trafficking and the subject of the movie “Sound of Freedom”. Several woman have come forward accusing Tim Ballard of assault. Hidden True Crime delves into the controversial figure and topic in a way no one else does. This podcast was originally recorded March 2, 2024 DR. JOHN MATTHIAS is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist with 30 years’ experience in both clinical and forensic work. He serves as an expert witness for the federal government and has consulted on numerous high-profile cases for District Attorney’s offices and defense attorneys in several states. Dr. Matthias graduated with honors in philosophy from Princeton University, and he won the prestigious McCosh Thesis prize while there. In high school he graduated valedictorian from a large public high school in Chicago where he was chosen to participate in a ground-breaking valedictory study that continues to this day. LAUREN MATTHIAS spent a decade working as an anchor and reporter. She has reported for News Nation and now produces the Hidden True Crime Podcast along with her husband Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist. HIDDEN: A TRUE CRIME PODCAST is: CRIMINAL PSYCHOLOGY REINVENTED. Join us on a journey into the darkest recesses of the human mind and the unconscious motivations that drive human behaviors in order to understand the world and ourselves. WEBSITE: https://hiddentruecrime.com/ SUPPORT: https://www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime  Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, but they cut out the middleman. So everything is priced way lower than you'd expect. Refresh. your every day with luxury you can actually use. Head to quince.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince, quince, ui and c e.com slash hidden true crime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hidden true crime. Hello, hidden jams. It's time for another Saturday night hidden hour. Thank you for joining us. We are going to cover the topic of Tim Ballard, a lot of news has come out about Tim Ballard. We've covered him a couple of other times. Before we begin, want to thank many other journalists who have been covering everything Tim Ballard

and OUR related for months and even years. Now, Fox 13 in Salt Lake City and Lynn Packer, independent journalist who's sharing YouTube videos. Hidden True Crime, though, is going to do something and go somewhere that nobody else has done. And that's done. delving deep into the hidden motives and who Tim Ballard truly is. So I thought, by the way, you were going to say we were going to climb Mount Everest or something. Same, same, same. Okay, yeah, the Mount Everest of covering Tim Ballard. Right, the Mount Everest of covering Tim Ballard.

So the journalism that other journalists have done has been incredible. And we are only going to add to the incredible work of other journalists by delving deep into the hidden motives. Tim Ballard, for those that haven't seen our previous episodes on him, is a public figure, well known for being a hero in the anti-human trafficking world. And he is the subject of the movie Sound of Freedom, and he started a nonprofit called Operation Underground Railroad. He was in the White House helping, and he is connected to Tony Robbins, a well-known motivational speaker to Glenn Beck, a well-known radio and talk show personality,

to Tim Ballard and Jordan Peterson, a psychologist. So with his very public, what am I trying to say, is very public persona. Persona. You did know the word. See, we're married, for those of you that don't know either. We're married. He knew the word I was looking for.

I knew you and know. I was like, come on, John, finish my sentence for me. Right. Am I going to have to start finishing your sentences now on the show? Well, you kind of help me do that when you need it. I'm like, okay, go. Yeah, jump in. I got you.

I got you. Because of Tim Ballard's very public persona, we want to cover this because we feel it's very, very important. And it's not an easy subject to tackle, though. And we explained that in our previous episode, we have our entire playlist about Tim Ballard in the description of this video. And we recommend everybody watching previous episodes that you can understand where we're coming from.

John and I are very pro helping children, very, very pro saving children, and very pro helping those that help children. Let's just lay that out here. For anyone that wants to say that by doing this, we are hurting children who could be saved. That's just simply not true. We believe in transparency and honesty and truth so that we can indeed help. I didn't tell you I was going to start with that, but I do want to start with that disclaimer. And last but not least, the reason why now is because there was another civil lawsuit that came down about Tim Ballard. There is a criminal investigation now that has been opened into allegations of alleged assault by Tim Ballard. And there has been now a documentary quote.

I do my little air quotes there, documentary because I did watch the first episode of the documentary so I could share. of defending Tim Ballard to the allegations of numerous victims that have come forward. Thus, we have received many emails from our gems and for many of you asking questions and hoping that we will take this discussion further. And we felt it was the right time. For those that thought we were going to talk about the trial that's about the movie, Rust, head over. We're going to wait until the trial is completed.

We are watching that trial together on our sister station, Hidden True Crime Trials, and you can find the link in the description of this video. Last but not least, before I turn the microphone over to my husband, John, because really we need you to help us understand who Tim Ballard really is and delve into the hidden motives. Big announcement, John and I, so the CW Network, has a new series that many of you might know about called Crime Nation. Brian Enton is a big part of that.

Well, this Tuesday, March 5th, Dr. John and I will be on, on Crime Nations episode about the Lori and Chad Daybell case. As will many other people you know that have been on our channel. Vicki Hoban, the Woodcox, Megan Connor, I believe will be on there. I don't know the full cast. Honestly, they didn't tell me. I asked. Trust me, I asked.

But those are who I know have been interviewed for this special episode. Anybody can watch the CW. I learned that. I downloaded a streaming app for my phone. so we will be, or not my phone, our TV, so we will be watching it. You can get that on your phone, and they will be streaming it the very next day for anyone that wants to watch it. Thank you so much, family and criminal law online.

I do not. I have something that I am working on. I wish he finishes my sentences and, no, it's not. I had skin cancer removed. So I try to wear turtlenecks for a reason to cover, but this one is clearly drooping down in the front. Thank you for your support. And then the thing I was most wanting to tell John about this civil lawsuit that came down,

it's nearly 400 pages, this fifth civil lawsuit, very different than the previous ones. You can read the entire thing on patreon.com slash Hindu crime. We have it there. Was there a big chunk of it was an autobiography that Tim Ballard wrote. So an autobiography about himself, his biography about himself, that he wrote, going all the way back into his early years in childhood. And we all know, John, that's like gold, right? You read Chad Daybell's autobiography.

You've read Jody Hildebrand's autobiography. Let's just throw in Tim Ballard's autobiography. It's a partial rendering. It's not the full autobiography. It's a partial that was provided as an appendix to the civil suit. It's attached to the civil suit. and the reason it's attached is because they reference part of it for the lawsuit. Yeah.

Rebecca, thank you. He did take one for the team. And Rebecca, it was so good to see you on our book club. John had a great book club Wednesday night with our mini gems for those interested in joining the book club. That's also on Patreon. On patreon.com slash into crime. It was so good to see you there, Rebecca. So let me jump in.

I noticed a comment earlier. I don't look at comments that often, but I noticed someone said immediately that they can't believe we're jumping on this bandwagon and their, unsubscribing all in caps. And first of all, on that issue, of course, people can believe what they want to believe. And we offer a perspective. It's based on the evidence we think is most relevant. But this isn't a bandwagon we're jumping on. We've covered Tim Boward previously. So this is, this is not new for us. But I guess this person isn't aware of that. So, but I think it's important to say, having looked at that comment that, you know, our job is to look at the evidence.

and evaluate it to the best of our ability. And some people will agree and some won't. And that's just the nature of this channel. So we had similar controversies in the past to other cases we've covered. And I should point out, my disclaimer is that none of these cases are adjudicated. So none of them have been tried. There's no verdicts. There's no pronouncement of guilt or innocent. So again, I just ask people to keep an open mind. We're going to talk about this. We're mostly going to talk about this in terms of Tim Bauer's own writing. So sure, I'll be interpreting it, but I'm going to actually be reading a lot of his own words. So in that sense, I hope people can stay open here. And we're not doing this to be controversial. We're doing this because we think it's important

and it's important to be as accurate as possible. And so I guess that's my disclaimer. A great disclaimer. Thank you. Let's start with the civil lawsuit. The reason the civil lawsuit is is interesting and relevant is because it essentially questions the narrative of the Sound of Freedom, the movie. So apparently there's the company or the production studio that made this movie is called Angel Studios. And Angel Studios said that it's based on a true tale. It's based on a true story. And Tim Bauer essentially is the star of that story or the hero of that story.

and they also said publicly that the person, the plaintiff in the civil lawsuit, Kelly, K-E-L-Y, Kelly is a resident of Columbia, the country, Columbia. And they say, Angel Studios says that Kelly is a real human trafficker and that the portrayal of Kelly in this movie and the movie, her name is Katie, apparently. I haven't seen the movie. So I can't speak to the movie. I can only speak to what I've seen. I'm not going to watch this movie because maybe I should, but I just don't want to, I don't know,

let me back up. This movie is claiming that this is real. And the problem here is that a lot of it isn't. Most of it isn't. It's fictitious. And so I think if Angel Studios hadn't made those claims, if Tim Bauer hadn't made those claims, it's his story and that it's factual, there probably wouldn't be a problem here. All they had to do was say this was fiction or that it was bad.

based on, I don't even know if they can say it's based on a true story. It's based on events, you know, or something like that, right? But that's not what they did. They said this is a true story based on a true story depicting Tim Bauer's story and this woman Kelly. So Kelly was in prison for 18 months in Columbia. She went to trial. Tim Bower actually was at the trial. He testified against her. There was never a judgment against Kelly. There was never a conviction. There still has not been a conviction. She was released due to habeas corpus, meaning that she was being held for too long without sufficient evidence and without going to trial. And so it's important to point out that Kelly had no previous criminal record, that Kelly had no previous involvement

in human trafficking. She was portrayed in the movie as a beauty pageant queen. She was never a beauty pageant queen. She was never affiliated with a modeling agency. There were so many falsehoods in this movie that, again, if they just said this is fiction, it wouldn't necessarily be a problem. So Kelly says in the civil complaint that essentially her life was ruined, people threatened to kill her, that all these allegations were false. That's the reason she filed this complaint. That's the reason she's pushing back. She provides a lot of evidence in here. She provides a lot of evidence that, for example, there was a party on an island in the island of Peru, which is an island off of Columbia, apparently. There were 57 children that attended the party. The 46 of those

were 17 and older. 30 of them were adults over 18, 17 or older, 7 were 16 or older, only 4 were 13 to 15 years old. That's for starters. Kelly argues that. not a single one of those children had ever been trafficked before, that none of them had been involved in the sex trade, none of them had been trafficked, that they were all recruited to attend this party because they were told that rich Americans would be handing out money. So that's interesting. So they created a need. They created a need for trafficking there. Right. That's been the big argument here. That's one of the big arguments with Tim Bowerd is that to quote one of the victims from a couple months ago. She said, OUR is not rescuing children. This is a quote. OAR's not rescuing children.

They're making a morality play for money based upon mostly fake operations. She said fake operations. I think some of these operations did arrest traffickers apparently. It's not clear how many. Some of them did apparently rescue children that were being trafficked, but at least in this movie, and according to Kelly's complaint, the people that recruited the children were not traffickers. I would make the distinction between a trafficker who is somebody who engages in the practice professionally of finding and trafficking children for monetary gain versus opportunists who seek money from rich Americans by recruiting children that haven't been trafficked previously, right? And so I think that's an important distinction. I think the argument here is that this

wasn't about trafficking at all. This is about a group of people. including Kelly in Columbia, who encountered a group of rich Americans who made promises about money and wanted to hold a party. And they recruited kids that supposedly were being trafficked for this party. And then the Colombian, the version of the FBI, the CTI came in and engaged in a raid and arrested a number of people, including Kelly. So it's interesting to me. So after our last show, our last show on Tim Barrett, I think was in November. Yes. I received a couple of calls from coworkers of Tim Bauer, and there's no way I'm going to reveal these sources, by the way. These are deep sources that are highly confidential.

But this is important because one of those sources told me that he believed most of these activities were fraudulent. And, well, first of all, let's back up and talk about Tim Bauer's credentials. That he worked for the CIA for a number of years before going to home end security with the CIA, he was an analyst, which means he was never in the field. He was an analyst. He was basically a bureaucrat who sat behind a desk and a computer. He didn't engage in any operations in the field. He worked on the border for a while. He did have some action there. But when he moved to Homeland Security, his main job was internet crimes. So his main job was not going in the field and busting, you know, sting operations. His main job was assessing crimes on the internet, which, by the way, I've had a lot of involvement with those divisions of law enforcement because I've done a lot of evaluations of sex offenders who were caught engaging in crimes on the internet. So that's primarily what he did for Homeland Security. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet.

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contor and industry. It is Happiness's Work from AGI product. So one of these sources told me that Tim Ballard actually was considered a secondary undercover agent and he was only trained for that in 2011. He started

OUR in 2013. He trained as a secondary undercover agent which means that you cannot go into the field by yourself and run an operation. You can only do that if you're a primary undercover agent. Tim Ballard was never a primary undercover agent. He went on one raid in a foreign country, according to my source. And that was it before he started OUR. But he wasn't primary. He was

secondary. So he was subordinate to other supervisors who went on that raid. This person also told me that he believed strongly that Tim Ballard was creating a demand. This is a quote. He's creating a demand for trafficking by doing what he's doing. He said, even small ops. will create demand. He said to me that the way this should be done is that you collaborate with these foreign countries and you figure out that the difference between what Tim Bowers doing and what should happen according to this person is that you get intelligence, you engage in surveillance, you figure out where these types of events are happening, where trafficking is happening, where parties are happening, where kids are being trafficked, right? You don't set them up.

In other words, you find them and then you bust them. You don't pay people to go to a party where you're going to then, you know, bring in law enforcement. You find them, right? In some ways, the order here is reversed. The way this should work is that your intelligence gathering should lead you to these trafficking rings, which should lead you to these parties. If you set these parties off in advance, you don't know if traffickers are going to supply the children or opportunists are. That's the problem. And so Kelly's argument is that this is entrapment. I agree. Right? Is that you can't pay someone, you can't tell someone you're having a party.

You'll be there. We're going to give you money. And by the way, bring children without that stealing over into entrapment. And so one of the interesting things in this lawsuit was that I didn't know this, but in one of the exhibits, Exhibit K, we posted this on Patreon, by the way, the documents. In Exhibit K, we learned that OUR, I don't remember the year, but OUR was sued and paid a settlement to Washington State for entrapment of a man who was part of what they called Operation NETNANI. This is not the first time that OUR engaged in entrapment. There was actually a settlement previously. So it certainly raises the question of what they were doing. And, you know, in one of our earlier shows I referred to Jimmy Rex. And Jimmy Rex was a friend

friend of Tim Bowards, he went on operations with Tim Bowerd. He argued that a lot of this, he didn't use the word entrapment. He argued that some of this was real, but a lot of it wasn't, that they went on a lot of missions where they went to multiple cities, including Mexico City. And he, quote, he said, they never found any traffickers. And there was no trafficking. So if you go to a city and there's no trafficking and your mission is to arrest traffickers, apparently you stage it. So, you know, Even the most ardent of Tim Bowered supporters, I think, you know, they have to contend with people like Jimmy Rex or Paul Hutchinson or people that work with him and knew him. He can point the finger at victims and say that, you know, the victims that were part of the

couple's ruse were making all this up. But it's much harder to point the finger at somebody like Jimmy Rex, who's essentially saying, look, there's two problems here. Number one, we didn't find traffickers that often. And when we did, Jimmy Rex said, when we did find traffickers and we did rescue children, I don't know whatever happened to the children. I don't know what happened for aftercare. I don't know if there was any help.

Yeah, there was no help. Jimmy Rex says, I don't know where they went. I've never been able to catch up with any of the victims we allegedly rescued. Where is the aftercare? Right. If that's the case, if you just move bodies from one location to the other, you're engaged in an elaborate moving operation, nothing more. You're not helping victims.

You're not getting them out of their danger and their peril. You might temporarily, but eventually they're going to go back, even if they're being traffic. If you're just moving kids without following up, then you're not really accomplishing much. You're just engaged in basically, you know, a moving company that's overseas that happens to move kids, right? So, you know, in fairness, Jimmy Rex did believe that some of the children were

legitimate victims of human trafficking. They were legitimately helped. He did think that there were some traffickers that were caught and brought to justice. and so that's all good news. The civil complainants, the five victims, or is it six now, the victims that have come forward, however, strongly disagree with that. So they think that almost all of this was a ruse. What the truth is, I don't know.

It's probably somewhere in the middle as it usually is. That was very measured. One of our gems said that her husband is mad that she's watching this right now. I think you should look at how measured John is being right now. You know, I'm going to talk about, let's stay with these coworkers. because people that worked with him at Homeland Security, it doesn't get any closer than that. These are people that knew him well. These are people that worked with them. One of them told me that, quote, he has a big fragile ego and that's the problem. He is to bring a laptop to work,

and he would work on his laptop writing his books. So if you want to know why Tim Ballard has 10 books out there, it's apparently because he spent all his time at work writing his books. And I guess his supervisor didn't care because he was promising his supervisor a job in his company, OUR, which was going to happen in the near future. He took a supervisor with him. He took a supervisor with them, right? So that's how Tim Bauer has 10 books because apparently his job was to investigate Internet crimes.

But more importantly, it was to write books at work. If only we had time to write books. Would have that be nice? The co-worker also said, and I'm going to quote him here, he said, quote, when it came to casework, Tim Babbard was a zero. And again, these are not my words. These are coming from deep sources that knew and worked with Tim Bowerd for years. And so he basically said that he felt like Tim was driven by his ego and by greed, that he felt like perhaps that Tim Bowerd, in some level, he did have good intentions. But those intentions were never operational. to work. Yeah. He was often too focused or too scattered on other projects. I wanted to talk a little bit about that because that, I think, helps set the stage here, too.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for setting that stage because it's important as we delve into this. Well, it's important because I'm sure a lot of people are going to argue, Tim Bowdo supporters are going to argue that the victims are online and they're contradictory and whatever. Like, it's going to go back to blaming the victim.

But the problem with that argument is that when you talk to people who knew them, including co-workers, and when you talk to people that went on operations with them, including Jimmy Rex, they're telling the same story as the victims. They're corroborating. And the more people that come forward and the more people that corroborate, the more likely that it's accurate. Right. So, but do I know for sure that it's accurate? No, I don't.

I mean, it's, again, none of this has been adjudicated. None of this has gone before a jury or a judge. So we'll wait and see what happens. As Mary says, as my mother always said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Right. So let's dive into, let's try to figure out who Tim Bower is. And I think the best way to do that is to look at his own words. You know, we have the unusual opportunity here to see parts of his autobiography that were attached as an exhibit to the civil complaint.

This was fascinating to me. Yeah. I'm going to start with the words of Tim Bauer. This is the opening of his book. This is directly from Tim Bowerd. Quote, my name is Tim Bowerd, and I am different things to different people. To some, I'm a hero and a humanitarian. To others, I'm a religious zealot and a con artist.

And a con artist, okay. To some, I am a saint fighting human trafficking. To others, I'm a glory-seeking wannabe rambo. To some, I'm a patriot. To others, I'm an ideological propagandist. truthfully, I may be all and none of these things. That's from his own words. He lays that out and then he says,

I might be all of these things. He said he's all of them and none of them. So, I mean, if you start with that, you know, it's kind of mind-blowing in the sense that if I'm running an autobiography, I'm probably not going to say that I'm a religious zealant and a con artist. Unless I've had some major transformation,

I don't really know why I would want to say that. I mean, I guess part of what he's saying is this is people's perceptions of him. But he didn't say that, though. He said, I may be all of these things. I may be all of these. That's a big tell. Right. The way I normally phrase that this is what's in his mind, right?

This is what's on his radar. So, I mean, he's really, from the very start of his autobiography, he's giving us a complete glimpse into how he sees himself. He sees himself as a hero, humanitarian, religious zealot, con artist, saint, fighting human trafficking, glory-seeking wannabe Rambo, patriot and ideological propagandist. There you go. His own views of himself, Jen and M says, yes. Right, exactly. So that's really fascinating way to open an autobiography. And I will say this, by the way, about this autobiography. When I read that, I think I became much more open or much more receptive to reading the rest of it. I think in reading this autobiography, there really is a kind of pathos here.

When I say pathos, I mean, so pathos comes from the Greek for eliciting emotion, but usually it refers to kind of sympathy that a character has pathos if you feel some sympathy for him or her. And, you know, I felt that. There's definitely a lot of turmoil here. There's definitely, a lot of inner conflict. This is someone who's really struggling in some ways to figure it out. I mean, unfortunately, in the end, he doesn't, but he's trying, right? And so, like, that trying goes a long way in my book. At least he's trying, or he was trying. I mean, until this documentary called Unfounded came out where he blamed all the victims for everything that ever happened to him. Which is this week, this week. This week, right. This so-called documentary, it's actually

more like an infomercial, but it's clearly a PR stunt. It was an infomercial. He's trying to take this to the public. He's trying to raise money. He's essentially blaming everything. I watched the first episode of this new air quote documentary that came out because we were getting so many emails about it. And I listened to the first 40 minute episode and it is the infomercial to donate to Ballard

family's defense fund for the family, not even OUR or anything, just the family. But I just have to point out what you just said was. very, you've read Jody Hildebrient's documentary. You didn't say you saw anything. What did you mean autobiography? Autobiography. Yeah. Yeah, that's important. The autobiography is self-written. You didn't say that about hers. You didn't say that about Chad Daybells. You're saying that in it, there was a little bit of self-searching. Is that what you're trying to say with Tim Ballard? Yeah, I mean, that's why he's the term pathos. Like sympathy, you know, I want to, I mean, the writing is very simple, but he's a good story.

tell her. You know, I want to believe his story. I want, like, his story essentially is that the book is about, ostensibly, it's going to change, but the book is about transformation in the sense that he went through these trials and tribulations at OUR. He hit rock bottom. He blacked out. He ended up on Tony Robbins' couch. By the way, there's a chapter on that. Tony Robbins rescued him, took him in, got him help. He started going to therapy. He really wanted to figure. He really wanted to out what was wrong. And so the book is about his career, his trials and tribulations, how he encounters these obstacles and he overcomes them. So I like that, I like that idea. I like that that's sort of the hero's journey, right? That you, you go on a journey and you

run into trial and tribulations and you're transformed because of it. The problem with this autobiography, however, and it's only partial, he doesn't have the whole autobiography. It's just partial, but from what I can see, the problem with that narrative is he doesn't transform. He refers to the allegations at OUR as conspiracies. He never takes response. And he never tells us what they are. We know now what they are. We know that they're allegations of sexual assault. We know now that they were investigated by the OUR board who then found him to be liable or responsible for engaging in inappropriate behavior with employees, and that's why they fired him. He says that he left of his own accord because he wanted to speak and write his books.

Apparently he's writing his books all the time at work, not at work, I don't know, whatever. So, but he claims wrongly that he left O you are on his own. That's not true. He was asked to leave. So again, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot left out of this autobiography. Right. that he's not being honest about, right? But having said that,

there's parts of this autobiography where I feel like he really, he sees some of these issues and he wants to confront them and he wants to change. As he D points out, and then OUR gave him a severance pay and a Jeep Cherokee on his way out. Right, the severance pay of like $700,000,

not to mention which in 2022, OUR made like $65 million from fundraising efforts. And I can't confirm this, but it appears that Tim Bauer funneled off about 14 million of that for himself. So that's highly illegal, by the way. You can't take money from a nonprofit. He should be on a salary.

You can't just take money from a nonprofit because you believe you're entitled to it. But apparently he did that. Well, now he's just requesting money for the Ballard Defense Fund, which they say very clearly in the air quote document. documentary is directly to the Ballard family. So there you go. You don't even have to worry about the nonprofit issue anymore. You can just send it directly to Tim and his family for defense. Right. I guess 14 million. Well, he took millions out of OUR. The year previously, it's estimated, he took out like 8 million. I don't know the exact numbers. I'm speculating here.

But obviously, there seems to be strong evidence. And this is based on the vice reporting, by the way, for those of you who have read the Vice articles, there seems to be some pretty strong reporting that he took millions out of all you are. The Utah AG was going to invest. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day.

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Start your free trial today at ORA.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at ORA.com slash remove. But the UTIG at the time was Sean Reyes. And Sean Reyes was going on covert ops with Tim Bauer. So Sean Reyes didn't pursue any of the investigations. He essentially dropped the investigation. The FBI became involved. the FBI had a lot of leads and a lot of information.

Sean Reyes stepped in and all of a sudden it disappeared. Yeah, exactly. And that's when Utah started reporting on this, but then it just disappeared. All of this, right. Everything just evaporated. And Tim Bellard uses that in the book, by the way. He says in the autobiography that's the exhibit, he says that this conspiracy went away.

He was really stressed and his life was going to hell in a handbasket. And then all of a sudden the charges are dropped and he's innocent. He didn't do anything wrong. Right, but he's not telling you why. He's not telling you it's because the AG was one of his good friends going on covert ops with them. I mean, that would have been nice to know, not in the autobiography. You won't see that in there.

Donna Lennon says, be careful, Dr. John. Tim Ballard wants people like you to believe his story. Well, clearly he's leaving a lot out and John's not missing it. So John's like, wait a minute. The story is certainly picking interesting here. I don't suffer fools well, unfortunately. I wish I did sometimes. you know, evidence is evidence. I have to go with what's what I think is credible evidence. So if we're

going to dive into Tim Beller's psyche a little bit, we have a lot of information from the autobiography to do that. So let's do that. Let's do it. Let's dig in. Let's start with his mother. Now, it's interesting that in the parts of the autobiography, if I read, he refers to his mother a lot, but he never once references his father. Opposite of Chad Daybell. Chad Daybell never mentioned his mother. Right. It's not. happens into Chad Daveel. Chad Daibel mentions his mother like twice, but he talks about how his father was a hero. His father was a big part of his birth. His father got his mother to give birth and Chad Daibel's autobiography. His dad is all about his dad. He doesn't say a tremendous amount about his mother,

but what he does says, I think, is really useful and informative in terms of understanding Tim Bower. So I'm going to read some parts of this autobiography that refer to his mother, and then we'll start piecing together a picture. Right. Yes. Thank you. Lynn. Lim says, ooh, mommy issues. Yeah. One of my favorite professors used to say that all the time. He used to say, oh, no, here we go again. More mommy issues. More mommy issues. That's right. John has an eye for the mommy issues. He goes straight to it. He's like, okay, here it is. I knew when I read Tim Ballard talking about his mother, I was like, John's got her. Here you go, babe. Pick this one apart.

So here we go. Mommy issues. This is from the autobiography, page six. And again, these are the words of Tim Bauer. These are not my words. we're letting Tim Bauer give us glimpses into a psyche from himself. Here we go. Quote, my mother was intense, far too intense. She said high expectations for us that were difficult, perhaps impossible to achieve. I became the rule enforcer.

I was the self-appointed guardian who drove my siblings nuts, keeping them in line and safe in a dangerous world. So the part I would point out here is that the expectation. were, quote, impossible. Think about that for a minute. Impossible expectations. That's going to be important. That is important. And this is from, again, this is from Tim Ballard's own words, him looking back at his childhood, what he felt that it was impossible to live up to expectations. Here's more from about his mother. This is page seven. Quote, throughout my childhood, my siblings and I lived in fear of any kind of academic failure that would earn our mother's wrath. Despite mostly good grades, I still was barely accepted at BYU. Tim did not realize that Dr. John Matthias would be reading this.

Yeah, he didn't, well. But thank you, Tim. Thank you for giving us a glimpse. Page nine, quote, my mom's sense of order and perfectionism, her drive to control, honestly, wouldn't allow her to see things any other way. Wow. And last but not least, this is a great one. I quote, I didn't even consider that good people were capable of being evil, of doing evil acts,

or conversely, that evil people were capable of doing good. It was a black and white worldview. I'm certain I learned from my mom. She raised me to believe in right and wrong, good versus evil, and there was no room for ambiguity. or second guessing between the two. Wow.

As you like to say, I joke that John always has this quote, that's all you need to know about whoever we're talking about. And I would say, wow, that's all you need to know about Tim Ballard right there. Wow. So when I read this, this is going to be relevant for something we're going to talk about later, but people may not understand my reference at this point, but this is I'm foreshadowing here. Back in the early days of Christianity, there was a Persian prophet by the name of Manny, M-A-N-I,

and the 3rd century AD, who founded a religion called Manichaeanism. So M-A-N-I-C-H-E-A-A-E-I-S-M, Manichaeism. And Manichaeism was based on the idea of duality, that the universe was essentially all good and all evil, and it was about the competing forces. of good and evil. And so it was a very simplistic kind of reductive religion that saw everything in the universe that could be explained by these forces of good and evil. So this religion, by the way, was occurring around the time. I think a lot of people don't realize that Christianity, early in the days after Christ, was not the predominant religion initially, that there were a

lot of religions that were kind of competing for people's attention, including Gnosticism, Zoroastrianism. And this was one of them. And when I read this, I actually kind of thought that, you know, that this idea of that the world is just good and evil and these forces of good and evil are always competing and clashing. And that's all it is. Right. So you're either all good or all evil. And so he's kind of alluding to that. He's alluding to that issue here. And again, we'll get back later into why that's relevant. So let's think about this for a minute. Again, these are his words. He's painting a picture here of a mother who is harsh, demanding, unrealistic, right? She has impossible expectations. And I think the obvious consequence

of that is that a child subjected to those conditions is going to feel highly inadequate. There's going to probably be a deep-seated sense of inadequacy. That in many ways, you have these expectations that you can never achieve. You'll never reach those. To obtain his mother's love, he feels like he needs to reach these impossible expectations, but he can't. He tells us here, his grades were okay, but he barely got into BYU. Yes, someone mentioned. It sounds like he failed the ACT or didn't do too well. Right. So clearly he wasn't meeting expectations, right. And one of his professors, I should point out, one of his professors told him at BYU, he said, hey, dude, you're no academic. You need to be a

practitioner. That's not exactly a huge compliment either. No. When you have a mother like this, I think that with these really impossible expectations, that invariably, I think you're going to have the sense of inadequacy or you could develop the sense of inadequacy because you can't reach those expectations. So I think one response to that is you resort to fantasy and you create this rich fantasy life where you do meet those expectations. And you, you know, potentially, if you go far enough with those fantasies, by the way, you potentially start getting into the terrain of narcissism. And I should point out another thing he talked about in his autobiography was this belief that as a child, he loves Superman.

And he wore his Superman cape to bed to sleep. He wore it in the bath. So he was, he was sort of obsessed with Superman. And so referencing this later as an adult, this is page 25 in his autobiography, he says, quote, I always believe for as long as I could remember that I was a protector, even without a cape. I was the self-appointed family guardian against the terrors of the world. I was a force of good. It was up to me to keep the evil way. I didn't need a cape. I didn't need superpowers.

I simply believed I was Superman. Wow. He's saying here that he believed, even as an adult, working for Homeland Security, working for the CIA, he believed that he was, quote, I was Superman. He thinks that. So again, getting back to this idea. So how would someone get to that point? I mean, it's, let's go back to the mother.

You have these unrealistic expectations that he can't reach. You have this rich fantasy world where he immerses himself in the Superman Eagle ideal. So an Eagle ideal, by the way, is a persona that we wish to achieve. So it's a wish. It's an ideal. It's not a reality. So can we call this the Superman Ruse? Yeah.

That was a comment. I totally took that from one of our gems. I saw it scrolling. I can't keep up with all the great comments here, guys. Thank you, though. So you have the sense of an addict squeeze sequence, because he's not living up to expectations. You've got this, so you have a child that's resorting to fantasy,

thinking he's Superman, quite literally thinking he's Superman. He's sleeping in the Cape. He's bathing in the Cape. He creates this ego ideal. So children who can't measure up, they create this ego ideal. And when they can't live up to it, they feel like a failure. Yeah.

Right? So you can start to put together the pieces now and see where I'm going with this. This idea of feeling like a failure and never being good enough, that's clearly in play here. Yes. And I think ultimately, the end result of that dynamic is you get something like imposter syndrome. People, they're pointing out, they're like, oh, my gosh, just call him Tim Ballard Hildebrandt. Someone else is saying, Chad Daybill sounds like this guy. Someone else is like, oh, my gosh, she's got Lori Valo syndrome.

I mean, we can't not notice this is a similarity between all of these, you know, I don't know what they are. Tim Bowdo is not a criminal yet. No. He's not a criminal, but he has been investigated for criminal acts. So our viewers are absolutely correct. And the insight here is that a lot, if there is such a thing as the criminal mind, and that's debatable. But there are a lot of commonalities among criminals and the criminal psyche. And I think so, yes, I think we're starting to see those.

with Tim Ballard. So if the question now is, could Tim Ballard have engaged in criminal acts, the answer would clearly be yes, because he thinks like almost everyone else we cover, right? Right. When I talk about this ideal, this ego ideal and the inability to meet it and feeling like a failure, I got to read this quote. Again, this is right out of his autobiography. So I mentioned that he feels like a failure. Here we go. Oh boy. Okay. Page 45. From the time I was a boy, and I first put on that Superman cape, I believed I knew who I was. I believed I knew my identity. And through a lifetime of studying and training and serving,

through 18 years of fighting crimes and not dealing with the emotional thought, I thought I knew who Tim Ballard was. But the truth now was crushing me. I was an imposter. I thought I was a hero. I thought I could save people. I can't save... Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought

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ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at Aura.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove. Anyone. I can't even say myself, I'm not Superman. I am nothing. That's from Tim Bowerd. That sort of answers Becky Carter's question. Isn't wearing capes and pretending to be superheroes just a normal childhood experience? Yes. Right. Developmentally, most children outgrow this notion of the eagle idea changes from something like Superman to something more realistic. So children might go from Superman to like a sports hero. And that would be more developmentally appropriate. But with Tim Bauer, so there is something, to answer that question, there's something very regressive here.

I mean, very infantile in the sense that thinking your Superman when you're 45 years old is very childlike. Yes. So she's completely accurate with that. Here we have Tim Bauer saying that he recognizes he's an imposter. Right. So, and again, this gets into what I said earlier about there is some pathos here. Like he has moments. He has these moments where these moments of recognition where he sees through the facade.

where he takes down the mask, where he is vulnerable. And that's one of those moments. He's saying, look, I'm an imposter. This is all nonsense. I mean, he doesn't keep that up. He doesn't sustain that type of insight. But he has a moment where he sees it. That's true.

That's more than Hildebrand or Lori, Valo, or Chad Daybell. You're saying, there's this moment. And he says, yeah, I'm an imposter. He says, there's another quote, similar. He says, page 27, he says, quote, there were times, if I'm being honest, when the weight of being Tim Ballard felt like a role. His own self, that being Tim Ballard, being who he is, felt like a role. He was playing. Wow. That's like absolutely a zero sense of self. So it's a role you're

playing to be Tim Ballard. Right. On page two, he says, quote, sometimes I'm not sure I even know myself. You're telling us this, Tim. Wow. So I think what's important here is everyone who listens to this knows. I'm not diagnosing now, but a classic narcissist. And again, I'm not saying Tim Bowers a narcissist. I don't know. I'm not diagnosing. But narcissism is based on this idea. So if you think about the actual myth of narcissus, you have narcissus is looking in the pond and he only sees his image. He only sees his physical image, right? There's nothing of substance. He doesn't see behind the image. He doesn't see like his values, his beliefs, right, if there's only an image. And in a classic sense, that's what narcissism is. It's an image that's

reflected back to us typically from other people. The narcissist wants, more than anything else, the narcissist wants constant validation from other people, which to them is a form of love. And I definitely think you have something like that here in the sense that Tim Ballard really, the Superman ego ideal is important because it shows that's how he wants other people to see him. And one way he creates that is by, he finds the perfect field to fulfill that fantasy. He gets into rescuing children from human traffickers. What could be more, I don't know, noble than that, right? And so he sets up this whole identity based upon reinforcing this image that he's trying

to create, this image of the hero, this image of the Superman, this image of this larger, he says it here. And he says it in his, I just write, the, a glory-seeky. want to be Rambo, right? A hero. A hero and a glory-seeking want to be Rambo. He knows. At some level, he knows. He does know. He knows, aka the Cat Lady states, the imposter syndrome would explain why he separated Tim from his alter ego Brian in the documentary. He admits he did those things, but as Brian. I just had to point that out. It does make this Brian Black character a little bit more interesting.

Yeah. Right. And so to remind our viewers of who, Brian Black is, we talked about this in one of our early shows, Brian Black is Tim Bowers' alter ego who goes on ops. So his identity on operations is Brian Black, which I find Lent is endlessly fascinating because there's so many pseudonyms you could choose, but to choose the Brian Black, like, that suggests he's not the guy wearing necessarily wearing the white hat. he's the guy dressed in black.

And so for those, I referenced Westworld, the guy in black is a guy who started out really good, but then transformed into this really evil guy. And in some ways you have, potentially, I'm not saying Tim Bowler's evil by any stretch, but you have a little bit of that type of transformation. That if there is this narcissism in Tim Bauer, that in many ways, it's those qualities that push him over the edge or potentially push him over the edge because narcissists have a huge amount of sense of entitlement. They lack empathy. They're more likely to take advantage of other people. They're more likely to, in the case of his victims, are more likely to push the envelope.

You know, given the chance to exploit people potentially, they're probably more likely to do that. Justine is asking, do narcissists, though, have such self-awareness? Well, that's what's interesting. So, Right. That's a great question. Again, going back to this idea of pathos and sympathy, this is why I have a certain amount of sympathy for Tim Ballard, because there is some insight here. But what's really fascinating, I think, is he doesn't stay with that. He has these moments of insight, but he reverts back to who he was. And that gets into the territory of personality disorders. So if you really want to understand personality disorders, and I'm not saying he's a personality disorder,

but if he was, somebody with a personality disorder might have these moments of insight and these moments of self-reflection and these moments of potential transformation, but they can't sustain them. They revert back to who they are. And in this case, Tim Ballard is kind of telling us he doesn't know who he is. He's playing a role. Yeah, he doesn't know. He doesn't even know who Tim Ballard is.

I also want to point out that a book on narcissism, I believe it was called malignant self-love. I'll confirm that. That was written by someone who claims that he is a narcissist. So there are narcissists out there who understand that they are narcissists. In fact, and then if you wiki this author, the wiki actually says that he took test and they think he's more along the lines of a psychopath. But he wrote a book about narcissism.

So that does happen. I'll Google that information. I threw that one out of my hat just now, so I'll get the facts on that while you continue on. So I'm going to read something. else now that we're on this topic that is really important. And this is on page 29. He's talking about starting OUR and how important his brand was. So he says, he says, quote, I know it must sound narcissistic that I had a desire to grow my brand. It probably was. It definitely was. It was. It was also the truth. So here you have on page 29. Tim Ballard is telling you that he's a

narcissist. Yeah, will you read that again? There have been so many woe moments. I keep thinking, this is all you need to know about Tim Valid and you keep pulling these. I miss that reading through. Wow. Page 29, he says, I'll read the sentence before to give it more context. He says, he's talking about leaving OUR and his brand.

He says, quote, I felt confident that I could safely step out of the management executive role I'd been in since 2013 and allow OU.R. you are to be its own thing. Well, I spent some long overdue time focusing on other things like growing my brand. I know it must sound narcissistic that I had a desire to grow my brand. It probably was. It definitely was. It was also the truth. That's in writing. Tim Bauer's saying essentially he's a narcissist. I mean, he's saying he has narcissistic tendencies, I guess, but I don't know a lot of people that like Tim Ballard that use the term narcissistic in their autobiographies without somehow acknowledging that that's a part of who they are.

Yeah. And also, it's not necessarily narcissistic to grow your brand, but what is his brand? His brand is Tim Ballard or creating who he is? Right. His brand is Tim Ballard. And he doesn't know who Tim Ballard is, so he's creating it. Well, and we know from the infamous Whiteboard meeting, we talked about that. one of our previous shows, but the Whiteboard meeting was essentially said. Really quickly, whiteboard meeting that was at Paul Hutchinson's house, whiteboard meeting, this infamous whiteboard picture where it shows Tim Ballard's written down, all of the funnels

and how to get the money and how to brand Tim Ballard and the sizzle. Glenn Beck was there. The summary of the whiteboard meeting is that everything in Tim Ballard's universe existed to assist him. Right. And to reinforce his ego and his pocket. pocketbook to make him rich and famous essentially. So OUR was a vehicle to enhance Tim Ballard's wealth and fame. That's the gist of the whiteboard meeting. Yeah. And the people that

were there, by the way, were just shocked by the whiteboard meeting because they believed that Tim Bauer had a larger vision, which was to help kids. And that OUR was really about stopping human traffickers and rescuing kids. And it turns out that at the whiteboard meeting, at least many of the people there felt that the purpose wasn't that at all. It was to enrich Tim Ballard. Yeah, and I want to point out what WK is saying. She thinks, oh, you are, the Operation Underground Railroad was Tim's brand, and he hid behind his brand. But no, his brand, according to the Whiteboard meeting and according to Tim Ballard himself, is actually Tim Ballard. OUR was there to serve Tim Ballard. If you go look at the Whiteboard meeting, everything was to

serve and to promote Tim Ballard. You know, Jimmy Rex even shares that story. Right. Can I share that story? We talked about that story on an older episode about how Tim Ballard was really, really upset. They were sharing Operation Underground Railroad and the different special ops they went on.

He was really upset that he wasn't in the photos, which if you really cared, we pointed out about child trafficking and staying undercover. You probably wouldn't want your face shown ever on any of the material. but not Tim Ballard. Tim Ballard was very, very upset that at this presentation about OUR, that his face wasn't on every single piece of material.

Yeah, so right. So let's go a little deeper. If we're going to understand Tim Bauer, I talked about the clothes from his mother. One question that I wonder about is whether there were attachment issues. That's something we talk about a lot. But it seems to me that there probably were some attachment issues. So just in the broadest terms, attachment for children,

especially young children would be classified as either insecure or secure. Insecure attachment tends to be a predictor of future problems, significant future problems in many areas, including most particularly relationships. And just based on the way he talks about his mother and his behaviors, it seems to me that there were probably or could have been insecure attachment issues. One of the issues with insecure attachment is that oftentimes love is conditional. So in other words, the parent will have conditions that have to be met for them to provide attention to the child. And when that happens, the child receives the message that the child has to achieve.

So the relationship is based on achievement and performance and not true connection. So love becomes a type of achievement. And I think you definitely have something like that here too. That if there is an insecure attachment, it seems to me I'd probably go with something. like anxious ambivalent, an anxious ambivalent attachment, which is a type of secure attachment. And again, this is just speculation. But this idea, I think, that love is conditional and that it's acquired. Love is acquired through achievement, I think, is very much in play here. And then we have, we have Tim telling us when he talks about what I call the Manichaean

worldview of evil versus good, which goes back to the third century, this idea, you have, obviously this very rigid, over simplistic worldview where everything is good or evil. And what's interesting to me there is that this kind of Manichaean worldview, he never challenged it. He never really explored it or adapted or learned. You know, a lot of kids, well, they might have this type of worldview when they're very young, but developmentally, they might challenge it or question it. Or when they go to college, they'll do reading and start seeing other perspectives,

not with Tim Bauer. Tim Bauer always kind of maintain that perspective. And so I think when you put together those pieces, just based on the comments or the quotes from his, about his mother, I think you really start developing a bit of a psychological portrait of who Tim Bauer is. That's the bulk of my assessment of his autobiography.

There is something I want to finish with along those lines, but should we take some questions first? Yeah, I do have some questions. I've been starting some questions. I have my own personal question. Another thing I saw in this lawsuit, which we've talked previously about, there are some strange connections as well to other cases we've been covering. But in text between him and one of the alleged victims,

he states something of the sexual nature to her and that they know each other really, really well, and they have a connection. And she says, oh, yes, because of the past life's thing. It's a very, I saw your eyes go up when I said that. In other words, Tim Ballard had told this woman about being together in a past life or he believed in past lives. And I guess I don't know if you have any answers for me. I know it's off topic, but I just want to point that out too is this idea that he was indeed hanging out with this subgroup of Chad Daybell, preparing a people crew. And they all knew each other.

I guess what is the similarity there? What is that similarity, that type of person? and they're all hanging out and they're all, I think where he's learning the past life thing is there. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it,

usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager,

spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove. They all have the same belief system clearly. They're all speaking at the same conferences and attending the same conferences. When I say subgroup, I mean like the Church of Jesus Christ,

Laudity Saints, there's nowhere in the doctrine that has talks about past lives, but there's this sort of subgroup that believe in it. Do they all have something in common, something like-minded that I'm missing? Is it the black and white thinking? What is it? That's my personal question. and I don't know if you have an answer for me, and we have some others here, too, some other questions.

I think, well, you know, I referenced this idea of the Manichaean worldview. I think there's something there, something that has to do with that. Maybe that would reduce itself to, you know, this rigid, overly simplistic view of the world. I mean, he says, when talking about his mother, he says quite clearly that his mother couldn't tolerate ambiguity

ambiguity, and neither can he. So the same is true of Jody Hildebrand. You know, interestingly, So there's a story in here about that he collapses in a parking lot and Tony Robbins takes him back to his apartment and gets help for him and he gets into therapy and he goes to see a psychiatrist and he gets medication. And he mentions his diagnosis. One of his diagnoses is OCD. And I think that's just interesting too. And again, this is from Tim Bauer, not for me, but he claims he has OCD and PTSD. Of course, he doesn't mention anything around a personality disorder. That would be, I'm sure, left out. But I think OCD, Jody Hildebrandt, I think, probably has some OCD too. Chad Daybell has some OCD. And again, I'm not, I don't want to generalize and say all criminals have OCD, but it tends to be a fairly common characteristic of a lot of criminals in the sense that they ruminate, that they obsess

over certain things and they can't let them go. And when you have violent fantasies and you obsess over it, it's more likely you're going to act those fantasies out. If you're having sexual fantasies in the case of Tim Bauer when you're creating this couple's ruse, if you're having those types of fantasies and you're obsessing over them and you don't, you have the sense of entitlement and you have poor boundaries, it's much more like you're going to act those things out, those behaviors out. So I think that this combination of this very rigid, an overly simplistic view of the world and maybe OCD and probably some attachment issues. I think you start seeing some similarities among a lot of those cases.

Thank you. Michelle, she gives us some great advice. Ladies, if any man comes up to you with the past lifeline, regardless of how you feel about yourself, you can do better. Let that be a lesson. Thank you. We have some good questions here. Krista Gardner, though, I like it.

She says, this sounds like a bad lifetime movie. waking up on Donie Robin's couch. Yeah, I love it. I'm just going to take that in. Thank you. That's a great quote. Yeah, I wouldn't want to do that. Or just a good bar story.

Just a good bar story. And then I woke up at Tony Robbins' couch. It's like the movie The Hangover meets the Secret or something like that. It's like the Hangover meets Sound of Freedom meets the secret. Yes. Oh, okay. Sorry, everyone. I always say, if you don't laugh, you cry.

So we've got to have some humor in the true crime world. And for those that suffer with OCD, John also talks about criminals that suffer with depression and how depression plays a role. And John himself talks about how he too suffers with depression and he's not a criminal. We are really trying to figure out who Tim Ballard is. Right.

There's no particular element that makes a criminal. It's a combination of elements that are all idiosyncratic that come together, that lead to criminal behavior. So, yeah, I think many people suffer from mental health issues and they don't commit criminal acts. In fact, quite the opposite. They're probably more self-aware and more sensitive to other people

because of some of their issues. So with all of these people, it's really a unique cocktail. It's a unique mix of elements that has to come together to lead to criminal behavior. Shelly W. states they were all legends in their own mind. That's the thing. And then someone else said, well, in a past life, they were probably all farmers or peasants or something like that.

I would like to know who Tim Ballard thought he was. If anybody out there watching knows who Tim Ballard thought he was in a past life, I'd love to know. You know, Chad, Davey thought he was the Holy Ghost, and then the best friend of Jesus and James, the Just. Other people thought they were Isaiah. We don't have Chad Daibald here with this pendulum to tell us who he said that Tim Ballard was. But if anybody knows who Tim Ballard was. I'm going to go with Moses or Alexander the Great, probably Alexander the Great. I'm going to go further.

I'm going to go with my little speculation. Who did he have, play him in The Sound of Freedom? What was his name? The actor? Yes. I just forgot his name. I can't forget his last name. Jim Nevis still or something.

Somebody won't know. You know who else he played, right? In another movie? No. Jesus Christ. He was in the Passion of Christ. He was Jesus Christ. Okay.

And Tim Ballard handpicked him. That's who he said he wanted to portray himself. So there you go. I don't think he looks like Tim. So why else did he choose him? I wouldn't say that that's his doppelganger, but that's who Tim Ballard requested to play him in the sound of freedom. So I wonder if he thought it was Jesus, I guess what I'm trying to say.

We're on kind of a strict timeline here, right? All right. So let me get back in and wrap this up. So I want to conclude with kind of the final piece here, which I think is really critical. And that's the relational component. So I mentioned this idea of insecure attachment and how that type of attachment style will typically lead to future problems, relational problems.

One thing that Jimmy Rex talked about in his show, what was it three months ago, was that Tim would kick everyone out of OUR that criticized him or the organization that disagreed with them, that somehow faulted him for anything. and this gets back to the idea of his mother being a perfectionist, I think, and this internalized perfectionism that Tim Boward showed that clearly was a part of his upbringing. So you have it in the organization. You have Tim really struggling to develop these deep connections that can last.

Jimmy Rex ends up getting kicked out. All of his friends eventually get kicked out, especially if they're critical at all. And Jimmy Rex was obviously pretty critical. But let's extend that a little bit here. this autobiography. He talks about the demands of all you are and how difficult it was. He talks about his wife, Catherine. He says, quote, she wouldn't stop me from doing what I needed to do because she knew all too well what it would mean if I stopped. At the same time, however, Catherine needed a husband.

And for some reason, I couldn't be one. Wow. Skipping ahead, page 32. That was page, for those who want to look at this document, that was page 31. Page 32. You can find all of these documents on our Patreon, patreon.com slash hidden true crime. And thank you for your support for anyone that does join Patreon. So on page 32, continuing with this issue about relationships, he's talking about being pushed away from Catherine and being pushed away from his family. Catherine, his wife.

Okay. He said, I loved her very much, meaning Catherine, it's not that I was indifferent to the kids. They were everything to me. It was something else. I was important. I was important in ways that honestly did not include them. I was regularly on TV. I was hanging out with celebrities and world leaders. I was consultant on issues of national and international importance. I was literally sitting at the right hand of the president of the United States. I was famous and getting more so by the day. Oh, so he just pretty much expressed that he's indifferent to his family because he's famous. Is that what I heard? Is that what I got? What he says here, he's talking about this because, remember, he's in 2020, when he gets accused of inappropriate behavior at OUR and he's going to get removed from OUR, that's his fall. That's his downfall.

So he's trying to set this up to show how his ego became inflated. But what he's saying is, He said he's struggling in his marriage and he's struggling with his family because, quote, I was important. I was important in ways that honestly did not include them. In other words, what he's saying, which this is mind-boggling. So this is the key to understanding Tim Bowerd. This is probably the key to understanding a lot of criminals. It's this relational component. He doesn't know how to connect to his wife.

He doesn't know how to connect to his family. doesn't quote know how to include them in spite of his fame. So he's getting famous. He feels he's getting all this attention and somehow it has to be about him. He can't, he doesn't see his family as a part of his identity and his life. Yeah. He's just obsessed with the fame. Right. And so the reason I think this is important is because, and this goes with the Jimmy Rex issue about kicking everyone out of what you are that's close to him, that supports him, that criticizes him. The reason this is important is because in many crimes and among many criminals, you have this element of disconnection. And you see it here. You see this lack of empathy.

You see this sense of entitlement. You see this inability to sustain relationships. And I think that's probably one of the biggest commonalities in the criminal mind. And again, you know, Tim Ballard is not a criminal. So I want to, but I mean, there's a lot of lawsuits out there. We don't know how they're going to go. But they are allegations. But still, if we're trying to understand Tim Ballard, I think this is a good place to think about it. If I think about psychopaths, for example, a lot of the research on psychopathy shows that

psychopaths have this issue of connecting to other people because they lack empathy, because they don't have emotion, they don't have true emotion. They can't truly connect to other human beings in an emotional level. And so I think there's always this kind of trail of destruction that psychopaths leave in their wake because they treat people like objects and they don't know how to fully connect and to manage relationships and to sustain them. And I think if you see it from that perspective, and Tim Ballard here is telling us that he's, he's disconnected from his wife, he's disconnected from his family because he's becoming so famous and he cares about fame more than anything else. And so I think you have this element here where there could be issues around

personality that really create a lot of conditions for Tim Bowers' downfall. That was your micro- drop, taking the glasses up. So yeah, that's, I know we're kind of running out of time. But yeah, so I think that would, that's where I would conclude because I think in the end that a lot of these issues come down to this inability to connect and probably seeing people as a means to an end, seeing people as objectifying people, you know, not having this capacity to really read social cues, to read emotional cues, this lack of emotional intelligence, the sense of entitlement, right?

A lot of these things are common to personality disorders. But again, I'm not saying this is a personality disorder, but it may be speculating here. You know, he calls himself narcissistic. He does it. He does it. He calls himself an imposter. So I guess if I believe him, then this is kind of where I would land with my analysis. Thank you, babe.

We'll conclude. But I do want to share that someone just sent me a text. Okay. And she was at a time where there was a dinner honoring human trafficking. trafficked survivors and that Tim flew in on a helicopter into the event. A real Captain American moment for him. Those attending the event were not impressed with himself creating such an image and a spotlight for himself.

The moment completely overshadowed the human trafficking survivors who were being honored at the event. And I think that's just another great example of someone that's really fighting human trafficking. I just want to point this out to people. they don't care about what they look like or their fame or their Instagram account. They're hiding because they're helping people undercover. I just,

people always ask us for some tells or some things to look out for. Like, just think about that. Well, let's tell a similar story. And again, I'm quoting Jimmy Rex a lot tonight, but Jimmy Rex told about Jimmy Rex put on a charity to raise money for human trafficking. And he said that a couple of people in OU.R.

up on the stage with a picture of some good work they had done with a victim of trafficking. And Tim Ballard wasn't mentioned. He wasn't in the picture. And he was so incensed by that. He was sitting at a table close to the stage. He ran off and he went to the back. He went behind the stage and he got into an argument with someone about why he wasn't mentioned, why he wasn't in the picture that they held up.

It was about him and not the charitable, function. It was the same idea that he was the star. He wanted to be the center of attention, not the victims of human trafficking, not the children, not the fundraising for the children, Tim Bauer. That story, I mean, that story is great. It's diagnostic of who we're talking about of Tim Bauer's personality, because it clearly shows this is more about Tim Bauer's ego and his fame and fortune than it is about the children. That's the tragedy of this, is. There was so much money raised for these noble causes that could have gone to, I think, to charities that would have really helped. Yes.

Once again, for anyone wonder, John is literally not diagnosing anyone. He has read Tim Ballard's words. Tim Ballard calling himself a narcissist. And John is saying he doesn't know if he has a personality disorder. So we don't need to pretend things going on in, you know, chat. Let's not beat Tim Ballard. here and twist things. Yeah, no, I'm not diagnosing.

I'm using his word. I've made that clear. So just to reiterate, I don't know if he's a personality disorder. I don't know if he's a diagnosis for a personality disorder. But yes, thank you, Krista. Tim diagnosed himself. He said he was narcissistic. He said he felt like an imposter.

I can't say it better than that. Right. Yes. Thank you, everyone. Just a reminder again, this Tuesday, Dr. John and I will be on Crime Nation on the CW Network, which you can download for free, the app, and it will be streaming the day after for anyone to watch it after about the Chad, Dave, and Lori Ballow case.

We have links to our full Tim Ballard playlist. We have links to our Patreon account, patreon.com slash into crime, where you can go to FOIA and court documents. And we have hundreds of pages when it comes to Tim Ballard, including his mini autobiography that we've started reading. And we also have a link to our new sister station station, sister station. That's what we said in the new sister station. Our sister channel, hidden true crime trials where we are following the rest trial and not just following the rest trial, but every day posting numerous updates and hearings even in the past

that we want to revisit before the Chad Day. Bell trial like Melanie Gibbs, pre-limm testimony and others. So please join us over there for ongoing streaming. Thank you. And thank you to our mods that are here tonight. And for our new mods on the trial channel, we appreciate you all so much. Lolo, thank you. She just said the trial channel is the best it is. And Lolo, thank you for being our mod over there and doing so much. Thank you. There was one question. Let's end as many civil lawsuits that Ballard now has. Tim Ballard now has five civil lawsuits so we can end five times. Can you analyze why some of the public defend Ballard with so much fervor?

Why is there such extreme hero worship? You sort of answered this in the past one, but the people are wondering, Dr. John. I think the short answer is confirmation bias, that people have a set view of the world, and they don't want that view challenged, and they believe that Tim Boward was a hero before, and they're not going to change that view. They're completely invested in it. They want to confirm their view of the world. They want to see Tim Ballard as a hero no matter what, and they will no matter what.

So it doesn't matter what evidence you present to them. They're emotionally invested in seeing Tim Ballard as a hero. They will not deviate from that. Many of them probably have the same rigid, oversimplistic worldview that he has. So they probably share similar attitudes and perceptions of the world. And as I said at the beginning, the first comment I read was someone saying, I'm unsubscribing. You guys are so wrong.

And, you know, that's fine. I think that we encourage people to disagree with this. We do. If they feel like they have to unsubscribe because it's that extreme, well, that that's too bad. I mean, but that's if that's what they need to do, that's fine. And we, we tell it the way we see it. We're not always right. We try to be, but we, you know, we look at the evidence and make an assessment.

I've been doing this for almost 30 years. And I hope I've learned a few things. So, but it's still a perspective and I'm wrong at times. But we want people to disagree. Let's, let's have a dialogue. Let's figure it out together. You're not really wrong often. I'll be honest.

I'm married to him. And, you know, the whole like, you always need to be right. John's usually right. When he's not right, I make a really big point of it because I would never want him to forget. And I will never let him forget when I'm right. But for the most of it, I will never let him forget. when I am right. But for the most part, I have to admit, he's usually right. I think so the short answer

is why do people want to stick to this belief about Tim Bauer is because they feel threatened. Yeah. They feel threatened that if they're wrong, it'll somehow undermine their view of the world. I think that's the short answer. This is about fear and threat, not being open to new information and not being willing to adapt and change one's point of view. Thank you, babe. Thank you for everyone for joining us tonight. And until next week, we plan to cover the Rust trial next week. I call it the Rust trial. It's the fill about Rust, the tragedy that happened on the set of Rust where Alec Baldwin was.

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