Hidden True Crime - Trial Decompression with Tammy Daybell's Aunt Vicki

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Lauren and the one and only Aunt Vicki are back LIVE to talk all the things... from Aunt Vicki's new flower shop endeavor, to Lori's fiery cross exams and even what Aunt Vicki thinks Lori needs... About Hidden True Crime: What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a criminal psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah. I love that, which by the way, I put in the headline of this live, I shared meeting with at Vicki at her flower shop. And I thought this sounds like a perfect 90s rom-com, you know, and Vicki and his flower shop. Yeah, we're having fun. Yeah, it's actually my son and I. I sold my shop in Arizona because I wanted to attend the trials. And so I had a shop in Arizona for a long time in Chandler. And then when, you know, obviously what happened happened, I sold the shop.

And then when I came, I ended up moving out here. My sister passed away, Tammy's mom. And so my other sister was ill. There was a lot going on. And, you know, I know a lot of these guys know a lot of my history, but a lot of them probably don't too. But so when I got out here, we moved out, finally got in our house. And my son is a, he's been a firefighter here for like 23 years in Orum.

And he's like, you know, I really want, hey, Danielle, Adriana. Hi, guys. He's, you know what, I love to do. He's a darmist. In fact, he did that behind me. And he said, you know, I love to learn the business. and he has another small business, you know, firefighters. They're very industrious.

They've always got something going on. So he said, you know, if you would teach me, I would totally go, you know, do it. And I was like, you know, I probably have a few years left in me. So we just found a spot and just started. Yeah, and it's been great. It's been so fun. That's amazing. Pull up your camera a little bit.

I want to see the whole bloom and bramble. Right. There we go. Yeah. I love that. Oh, you've got someone holding it. No, no, no. That's, it's literally there.

This thing moves. What is it? What is this thing? My computer has a mind of its own and it does what it wants to do. And I don't know. Okay, I'm sorry. Go back. Computer, go back.

Never mind, computer. Stop. While she tries to tame her computer, I'll explain to those that don't know who Aunt Vicki is. Yes. and she is the Hidden Gems favorite aunt. Aunt Vicky is Tammy Daybill. I missed everybody, seeing everybody. I know, we've missed you.

And Tammy Daybell was unfortunately married to Chad Daybell, and is an absolute heartbreak in your family. But Aunt Vicky is being the best aunt. She was this type of aunt to Tammy, and so now for you to share your love and your, your aunt Vickiness with all of us means so much and you're allowing Tammy's memory to live on. So thank you. Thank you.

It's been, it's been, yes, I'm in Utah County. I'm in Orem. Yeah, come see me, people. At the bloom and bramble, we're not going to ask your computer to try to show the logo anymore. There it is. Okay. I don't know what you're doing. It's like got a mind of its own.

Okay, wait. Okay. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. I'm very technology oriented as you can tell. Gosh, what's wrong? Okay, bloom and bramble. Yeah, we're in Orham. So we service a pretty big area, like pretty much Happy Valley, Utah County. So, yeah, we're like all over the place. And I got a, oh, dang, and I can't really say no. names. There was a lot of really good women that spoke at conference, I get. I didn't, I wasn't able to see it because I had some else on, but LDS church conference. Yeah, LDS church conference. And we had, so we've had flower, people sending flowers to people that spoke at conference. That's been really. Oh, that's neat. Yeah. Yeah. People like know really well, but I can't say it.

So many, so for those that don't know you know now, and Vicki is a florist and, oh, But she actually taught, so during Chad DeBos trial in Boise, where it was so difficult, you know, Kay and Larry were there, Bickey was there, we had a group of dear friends that would support one another. Sarah was there. And she said, we are going to do a floral arrangement class after court one day. And we all got together at the place where I was staying Sarah's house and made these beautiful bouquets. And she brought all this and taught us how to arrange flowers. It was so fun. and you have sent me beautiful flowers when I've needed them.

In fact, and I will share this. It touched me so much. Thank you for the flowers that you sent for my brother's funeral recently. It was so heartbreaking. I walked in and someone said, the flowers here are for you. Yeah. And I opened up and they were a big, beautiful displacing on a table and I opened them. And it was, thank you.

Yeah. And thank you for my whole family too. I wanted to come. You're not that. It wasn't that far from you. But I thought, oh, this is going to be like such a. intimate affair. Like I, this is for family and like I totally understand that. And then the next thing I see, you're posting it on Facebook and there's like 500 people that I go, I could have slipped in there

easily. I would have loved to have seen you. I get your family now. Like your family's really fun and they're musical and like you have, you guys have a lot going on. But that was a really nice celebration for him. And, you know, it's like so hard whenever you lose somebody. It doesn't doesn't matter whether or not it's planned or not or you know not planned but you know things that you know are going to happen and yeah that was really heartbreaking to see what you guys went through and you know of course we love you thank well it's touching to my family too when I shared that they were from Tammy dables family members they've been they were truly touched in what we've been through what you've been through so you know we're all in this life together and thank

you for supporting me and my tragedy and I will always support you and yours so absolutely thank you yeah don't make me cry stop well let's start talking about your computer again and how it doesn't behave and we'll start laughing again we could try talking about what's been going on this week yes let's start talking about green chili enchiladas and then maybe we can laugh too but um that must be a really awesome recipe because you know He was all over that memory. Oh, those were so good. I remember.

I was like she was making them every week, but were people asking for him? That's the question. And were they poisoned? Were they annex free? It was such a weird exchange. And she kept saying it, and he kept saying, no, no, no, nope, nope, nope. Those ones she had to go back. But you don't remember.

Let's forget Charles for a second. You know, Charles was killed, but we'll go back to the enchiladas. You're telling me that you don't remember that I made these everywhere. He was like, nope. As I've said, don't flatter yourself, Lori. The green chili and chili, you know, not the red chili, the green. And they're like, no, I don't remember that. Which Mitch Megan Conner has let us all know they're actually rather bland.

Oh, really? Yeah, me and Connor from. Yeah. Yeah. I know. You know, the funny thing is, is that when all that was going on and everything, I was thinking, why is she, what is it about that part? Was it just that she felt like it was, it was just so odd that I was like literally trying

to get my brain around. Why was that so important for him to admit? that he remembered those enchiladas. It was so important to him. And I just, I kept thinking to myself, I just think she thinks everything that she does is so integral to everybody else's life. Yes.

That it's more important than anything they had going on. You know, they weren't thinking about the food. They were there to see family, whatever. But in her brain, well, you know, of course it was the most important thing because Lori did it. Right, right. No, you actually nailed her. And that's what narcissism is, which, you know, she has a, she has a personality disorder per judge boy sharing some of her psychological report. And

narcissism is certainly part of that. John can't speculate it as to what it is. But I'm just a throw in. I think she's a psychopath. But that would mean that anything she does is more important than anyone else. And like anything she does is just dramatic and fabulous. Yeah. Colby said that his and Kelsey's are better. I don't even doubt that for a I can't especially, I can't even imagine her doing something because, you know, there's a certain amount of love that you put into food when you're cooking for people. And I just don't think that that, I think she's barren when it comes to that. So I also kind of got a, you know, a kick out of the judge because he's up there like, what? I'm talking about green chili. I could be doing

so many other things. I know. This is the judge, the judge, with someone in chat, someone in chat called him Judge McDreamy. He was like side eyeing so hard. He was just like, you know, he's been such a good, so good at like gray rocking and just being like this even

like referee that just like doesn't react. And he was like, I see that he's irritated at times. And, but he's really like, Zanix tends to be about. Okay, good to know. If your food tastes funky, could have a little something.

Well, it was probably made by Lori Vallow. She liked to put Xanax and Charles's protein drinks. So that's... No. Yeah. For real? Yes. For real, according to Christina Atwood and Serena, actually, both their interviews and the document

dumped said that. Okay. That's something I did not see. Okay. Yeah. And then they, yeah, and then they shared that in trial. So, but yes, that's, we heard that in some, I'll send you. that actually. We did an episode about Tiley who Aunt Vicky knew Tiley and JJ, but mostly Tiley

because she was friends with your granddaughter. It's a strange world. Yes, it was Tammy David Aunt. She, they were in the same friend group and they were, they were actually good friends. Very good friends. Yeah. So, um, he was friends with Lori. And she was in the primary, which is a part of the church that they belong to where JJ went. And so she's, knew JJ really, really well. Yeah, really well. And so, you know, we've talked about Tiley always being sick. And John and I did an episode actually about some evidence pointing to what we possibly

suspect or worry was actually going on with her being sick. And we brought up Christina Atwood's interview as she shares that Xanax was put into Charlottles Shakes. Well, you know that I always want. wondered about Tiley. Because I was like, she's so sick. I don't even understand what's going on there. Yeah.

And she always said that she had pancreatitis, I think it was. And that she had this and that and that she was always sick. And then I know there were times when Tiley would make a comment, something to the effect of my mom says I'm sick. And it's like that she wasn't necessarily. sick, but she was just repeating what her mom and said. I can't go because my mom says I'm sick. It's like, no.

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This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or any disease. Right, yeah. I know you've brought it up. That's why. In fact, if there is a mod that can find the link, I think it's just Moonshausen by proxy or factitious disorder about Tiley. I mean, Moon Chousin by proxy would be a diagnosis for Lori, not Tiley, but it was about

Tiley. And we shared a lot of evidence that could certainly lead to why we will always be suspicious of that. 100%. Now, you know, with her news. this whole new theory that she has of the Tiley being the you know the character in this scene where she is Charles is chasing her with a bat and it's it's so unbelievably outlandish I can't even like it sometimes I can't listen to it because it's so frustrating and that's what was so

for me, as somebody involved in this at all, was so satisfying seeing her shaking in her boots when Kay was on the stand. I thought she would go further with Kay, but I was like, oh, she started to stutter. I was telling Jim last night, I'm like, it's almost like she was like a kindergartner that was told to go sit down at her desk. Like she said a couple things, turned around, sat down, and like put her head down on the table you know i mean just like she was just like done and i was like k just like oh i just she's amazing yeah yeah she she was she was more prepared than lory lory actually i felt like was maybe even a little bit timid with she was weird yeah right it was like she knows what she was messing with no mess with k woodcock i think too i think k is the one person

that honestly, looking her in the face, that at some point, somewhere in her, if there's any part of her that's still saying, that she had to own, she had to own that she killed and was part of Tammy, Charles, JJ and Tiley, and maybe even knucklehead, Alex. I don't know. But I just think that that was like, it was a moment of time where I felt that.

I don't know if you did. I don't know if maybe it's just me or whatever. But I know that I talked to Julie last night. That's my daughter. And she knew Lori pretty well, in fact, really well. And of course, she knows Kay as well. But I was like, the moment in time when they just even. first started talking, like you could see in K that this was your, this is your moment. You're

facing me. You're actually talking to me. And I, you're not going to get over on me. This, this is the one person you're not getting over on. Yeah. And I don't know, it felt good. It felt, it's how that she did amazing. I was so proud of her. It felt so good. I mean, Her last, the last, she was sort of a mic drop moment that I was just like, I wanted to be like, yeah. I was like, when she, when Gloria said, Sue, did you see me conspire to kill him? And Kaylett said, no, but I'm seeing a lot of evidence. You did. And it was like, boom.

And she's like, was like, don't mess with me because if you go any further, you're going to get exactly what I know. And I, she wasn't, I think she, it was so perfect. I don't know. It was perfect. Her answer, her, the way she said it, it was just like, don't mess with me. You might as well have just said it because you did it. Right. I agree.

I agree. And she didn't, she was just like, okay. I'll go sit down now. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Anyway, maybe I should have cross-examine this woman. Maybe that was a bad idea. Maybe I shouldn't have defended myself. Maybe I shouldn't have killed my husband. I'll sit right back down. Well, even though, the crazy thing is like the lady, the last dinner Charles had where he had actually a good time. He was visiting with somebody.

He was enjoying her company. It was a night before all this happened and everything. And she was like trying to just take it away, like she was all of her questions were meant to take away. to take away any, you know, any of the fun that he might have had that night or any of the good time. And she, you know, when she said, and so you were talking about me. And so you were talking. And so you're blah, blah, blah.

And she goes, oh, don't flatter yourself. I was like, I literally screwy. I was here in the shop and I was like, oh, my God. That was a moment. Do we have the link to the, do you have the website? I think I can grab the website to show you. We have, we now have don't flatter yourself merch. It's so good.

You guys, I know that was a moment. I actually told John this morning. So John's not watching. He's full-time parenting, you know, so he's relying on me for my updates. And he's not always tuning in the evenings because like you guys are because he's with, you know, our son. But so this morning, but he saw that we made, don't flatter you merch. And he's so he called me. He's like, wait, what's going on?

Like, what is this? And I said, okay, so Nancy Joe went out with Charles on July 10th. He's like, okay, following. And they talked about Lori and her beliefs and, you know, how she switched, you know, the beneficiary. And he's like, okay. And I said, and so Lori gets up for cross. And the first thing she says to Nancy Joe is, so you went on a first date with my husband

and all you did is talk about me. And then she was just like, don't flatter yourself. John started laughing so hard this morning as I told him this. He was like, I could see it. He always shakes his shoulders when he, when he laughs and he was laughing so hard. He was like, that is amazing. So it was really, I don't know if she had that locked and loaded and ready to go or if that was for the moment, but whatever it was, it was golden. Yeah.

Let me get the link to share. Hold on. I see. I think she put it up. I don't know what happened to it, though. I just want to show it on a screen. Oh, do you have sure? Oh, you're going to show it.

Oh, boy. Here we are. Someone said, yeah, I wish we could have seen John respond to that. It was great. Where is it? Let's see here. Okay, scroll down and there we go. Hold on.

There you go. Oh my gosh. So we'll put that in the description of the video. And also, many people are asking about this moonchausen by proxy. your factitious disorder where we got into the possibility that Lori suffered from that with Kylie. We'll have that in the description of this video as well. I can't go find it super fast. People are asking a lot about it. I mean, I don't know how, I mean, your audience are asking a lot. And we've been talking for three years now or longer over this, but what, they need

hoodies. That's a good idea. Oh, we have them. We have them. That's how fast things are going. Sometimes I'm like, I don't even know. We have hoodies. They've got your hoodies for you, honey. No, the thing was is that Tiley was always sick. And but they, oh, Gloria, how are you? Lunch. No, she was sick a lot.

And although people that really were around her a lot didn't really, noticed that she was sick. She didn't seem to be sick all the time. She seemed to be pretty healthy. And so when she's, you know, she has rewritten history, though, a few times. One of those was that when she said she died when she had Tiley. And her family said, no, that absolutely did not happen. Nobody in the family knew about it. If it would have happened, obviously your family would know you had died. So she's told a few different. And I think Tylee, for the most part, was a character in her life and not a real life person that, you know, was a person, like people had people that loved them and cared about them. And like she, I feel like she just always

felt like it was a character. It was just such a weird, disconnected way that she talked about her. And I think that that's on Nancy Jo. She's going to get a free shirt. Keep that pin for a while. Keep that pin for a while. You can email us a hidden true crime info at gmail.com. Nancy Joe. We'll send a new shirt.

So yeah. So that was a big part of that. I mean, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a psychiatrist. I mean, I play one on here, but I'm not one. But yeah, I think that. there were a few of us that wondered, like, is that really, you know, a nail, is that really something that she's suffering from, or is that just? And I thought about that before I even knew

any of this other stuff. I mean, before Tammy was killed, any of this went on, because they, they would talk about it, and I'd be like, gosh, that sounds so odd. And, like, she would go, like, Noel's party, she went to the party, but she could only stay for two hour. just weird different things. So the fact that she is like, you know, and I heard it a little bit Colby talking about the fact that she had blamed a lot of this on Tiley. And I just think, you know, I just, it just breaks my heart again, that this is again all about putting the blame for everything that she's done on somebody else that can't either defend themselves or that we already know that it's we already know you're you are the murderer you are the person that did

this whether or not you know she's convicted of charles i would be i i can't even imagine it the jury has to be sitting there thinking this lady is nuts because if your questioning is bizarre and it's like the green chili i mean she's what like she spent five minutes arguing about that and then her little comments after are unnecessary to the oh really oh okay okay okay okay yeah every time she says okay I just like after I just get like little ugh okay I take every time she says okay somebody should hit her over the head even if it's just with a fly swatter there you just like a little okay boom I am that I could do that I can I'd be the fly swatter.

Okay. And I'll just sit there. That's something I'd be happy to do. But yeah, I think the whole, I mean, like I was telling my husband, I'm like, you know what? You know, for her, this is like nothing. This is like, I just get out of jail for a while and I get to play a lawyer. And I think she's just been playing roles her whole life. This is just one more role she's trying to play.

She's just horrible at it. But I mean, as far as like, it's just getting her out of jail. I mean, who wouldn't do that? So what's going on? Oh, I'm just going to, I just asked Grayson, who's sitting next to me to pin a certain comment. Sorry, didn't want people to hear. I apologize. Nobody heard.

About what you're talking about, essentially. Yeah. Just about what you're talking about with Tiley. The other things they've heard about Tiley, too, just going back, is didn't it was it was either you or your daughter that kind of shared that yet that your granddaughter again would be like come out and she'd be like my mom says that I'm too sick now that she says she's too sick but her mother would say she's an odd comment because teenagers don't do that one if they're sick they'll drag themselves to the next party or function and they just felt

like there were times when she should have been able to go and she, you know, didn't. I really think Lori was just dying for her to get out of school so that she wouldn't have to take her to school, that she could just kind of drag her around with her, you know, to have a sidekick. And who knows. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows. It is strange, too, by the way.

Well, let me ask you, you know, the jury allegedly doesn't. know that the kids have been killed. Tyler and JJ have been killed. And it's actually maddening to me because the jury can ask questions. And they're like not asking any questions. And like yesterday, Kay said the last time I saw JJ was in May. She didn't say a year, but clearly it's not this year. Right.

And JJ's not with Lori. J.J.J. is not with Kay. J.G. is not with Charles. And so I want them to say, hey, where's JJ? Or is J.J. okay? Or she also said, I learned that. JJ wasn't safe with more. And then no jurors asking questions.

I want to scream. I'm like, ask some questions. But then I also wondered, and this is my question for you, do you think they know? Do you think they know that the children are dead? Because they're not sequestered. And while they're not supposed to look anything up, I mean, if one person says to them, I don't know.

So do I think they know? Probably. But I do have the same question about them, the lack of questions. Yeah. I, I, because if I was on that jury, if I didn't know, I would be like asking a million questions. Yeah. Enough.

In fact, the gal that Charles was having dinner with the night before, she even said, I don't know what I'm supposed to, how much I can say here. Well, that immediately would have been a question for me. I would have said, okay, white. she unable to talk about are there certain things she's not able to talk about isn't she yeah truth like what are those issues um one because i i would want to know is there like is there another piece of this like what is is there another trial going on is there something else going on is there another you know i mean i think i've asked about um i mean yeah so it's it's hard to know it's in their

had like the whole time the other two trials we went through this too it about drove all of us crazy because we're like what is the jury thinking today what did they think about that did the jury hear that did they hear what we heard did they hear what you know that we with the parts that we thought were important because we knew that they actually proved the case so that was the most important thing to us is for us to know okay what is it that their understanding is from this. And I think you're right. I think they should, that question would come out of my mouth.

Are the kids here? Are they? Where's JJ? Where, yeah, where are they? And yeah. Where is Daredevil? I'm right here. Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's

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This should be tons of fun. Marvel television's Daredevil, Born Again, now streaming only on Disney Plus. Yeah, I'm a little, I'm a little frustrated with the lack of questions. I am, but maybe they're just intimidated. I don't know. Well, I think you might have a point there. I think they might know more or have put together more than what, you know, we have thought. Yeah.

Right. But yeah. Perhaps. And like I said, you know, this jury is not sequestered. They can chat. It's a little bit less strict than it wasn't Idaho, certainly. But they're not supposed to look anything up or talk about the case at all. But that doesn't mean that somebody could come up to them and say, oh, you're, you're on the jury of,

of the child killer or the child, you know, they hear something on the news, you know, as they're walking by the TV. I mean, I don't know, but maybe they really don't know. I had heard that they were eating in the cafeteria. No, I don't know because I haven't been there yet. I'm still going to be coming down. But I heard that they were eating lunch at a table with a bunch of people that were just like media and stuff. that they don't eat, the jurors don't eat in a separate area.

Is that right? I had heard that too. Someone came up to me and actually said that I haven't seen, I haven't witnessed that, but someone did say that. That was actually similar to Alec Baldwin's trial too. The jurors were just outside. I mean, it was only three days in the end, but.

Yeah. So that there is, so in Santa Fe, New Mexico, they had little badges on that said jurors, and they'd just be sitting out at lunch. I mean, because they couldn't talk to, They were told not to talk, but that that's a thing. But there's no way you could sit there and not hear what, you know what I mean? That's all we talked about.

We talked about it non-stop. Every break at lunch, you know what I mean? Like we were non-stop talking and trying to figure out what was going on. And, um, hi, Ruth. Um, that was one of the things I really, that's true. Men don't ask as many questions as women, Kim Dodd says. Yeah, I think she's right. Yeah.

Someone else says that if they were a juror, I would be wondering, but wouldn't ask until more of the case has been presented, including the defense. That's Justice Moon, true crime, who states that. The question is, though, is if she doesn't put on a defense, that is going to, you know, if they're waiting to ask and then she doesn't, she rests, then what? your questions are going to go unanswered. That would be my worry. Yeah. Yeah. The jury does not know.

It has not been told to the jury that she has other convictions at this moment. So I assume that they know that she's in jail, like, because she's, you know, at a trial, she's been charged with killing Charles. You know, you can't walk free. So I'm sure they know that she's behind bars, but they have not been told about her previous. that her conviction been convicted right right so what wasn't there a pretrial hearing where they said that they were going to let one of the convictions in one of the murders yes that was that was during that was during one of the last hearings and so i so maybe we haven't

seen it yet yeah because i my understanding was that they were going to they weren't going to allow everything in but they said they were going to going to allow one of the murder convictions. And so I was like, oh, if they could add that in, that would be just such a slam dunk for this because then it, you know who she is, one. And then you can just assume from all this other stuff that she's a liar. And then everything, everybody's already said, I mean, the case is there. Right.

It would be nice to get this conviction for Charles. He deserves it. Yeah. Family absolutely deserves it. But, you know, again, we never know. It's right up to the very second they read the verdicts. We were with her and Chad, we were all, you know, everybody was just in a frenzy about it because we're like, is this going to happen? Is it not going to happen?

And then the minute the jurors walked in the room, I knew they were. all guilty because that was the first time the jurors walked in the room and let me right in the eye and i was like oh thank and they walked in with confidence like satisfaction i remember like i was sitting next to they weren't smiling but they they almost were it was like we did the right thing they walked in with a relief like there was like this it was not just confidence it was like they they they like their shoulders were held high and you could tell they had some sort of relief that they hadn't had throughout the trial and i don't I remember I actually got to sit next to you during that moment. I was grateful. You demanded that.

They were not going to let me. And you were like, she gets to sit with me. So thank you for that. But yeah, I agree. I had the same impression. And I'll tell you, I know you're watching from home. This jury is interesting to watch. Yesterday, I saw the most reaction from them I had ever seen. And the reaction, so there was one juror. So the biggest moment was, I would say, when she was sparring with Christina Atwood because it was so oh excuse me serena not Christina Christina Christina was it Serena Sharp forgive me so she was sparring with Serena Sharp and it was sort of like a Bible you know sort of I don't know what you call it what do you call it people help me out with the name where you're yeah it's like

sparring or like Bible back and forth the Bible game but what do they call that but dang it yeah I know what you're talking about okay yeah you know what I'm talking about I I know a Bible off someone says. He said. He said in seminary. It was like a Bible. Yeah. Like a, I know.

I don't know why I mean. A Bible off. Yeah. So there was a juror that just had this grin like this like, like, what is happening? Like he's just like this is not happening. I was like, you know, when you're like watch like you have like secondhand embarrassment watching something. It was like a secondhand embarrassment grin like. And like, I can't believe this is real.

And then there was another juror that something was said, you saw a bit of an eye roll too, a separate juror. Like, like what is this? Because it was just so. Well, it's such an ignorant line of questioning. It has nothing to do with anything. It's literally, if you could have two things less related, I don't know. Because she's, her questions are.

personal. Her questions are not really, um, scripture wars. That's what it is. Or Bible either one. Yeah. Everybody's that's that. A religious rap battle. Let's go at that. You guys have got a lot sword drill. Bible bashing. Apologetic. Keep going. But yeah, I do, I do feel like a lot of her questions in my mind are really, they're off the charts. Like, they don't make any sense. They're, they're really not like, you know, it doesn't make any sense to ask questions about a Bible when you're, this has, and her, like, does she know the three Nephites? It's like, wait, what?

What are you talking? I know. I know. I didn't think if you thought the enchiladas were bad, wait until you get Lori demanding about the three Nephites names. Yeah. It was just weird. And then she goes, well, what do you mean? You said you didn't know him.

She goes, no, you asked me what their names were. And I was like, have mercy. Make this end. I actually took it that she wanted the names too. I was like, who's it going to be? Is it going to be you? I was like. Like I was like I want to know I'm like tell me who are the three Nephites I've been had the

popcorn it was like all right yeah yeah I know I know it's so funny can you I go is this doctrine or is this a trial we get a side because if we're going to start Bible uh whatever it is jeopardy I'm going to have to really get my polish up because they've done that. Right, right. Yeah, she was all over the place on that. I just felt sorry. I got a little bit sorry for those ladies, too,

because they had literally, they're like, wait, what? Like, am I the right place? No. The best also was talking to Serena Sharp. She was saying to Serena. So she talked to Zilema recently. She was like, no. She's like, okay.

What about Gibb? It was like, she was like, give me. gossip so you so what's the tea I'm talking to Zilema have you seen it recently what's she up to okay what she got going on okay fly swatter okay okay okay every time she does that now I'm gonna do that sit in another else okay she's like okay talk to Zulema no okay so uh what about Gibb seen her recently what's she doing she and David's still together divorced separated It was like she was like, let's catch up. Let's get the goss.

You know, let's get the gossip. Yeah, like she has, hey, well, I have all the time in the world. She literally does have all the time in the world. She has no to go, nothing to do. So it's like people have to suffer through it because let's face it. Once she's done, she's going back behind doors and eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for life. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

It would make me more happy. She also, I think when she was cross-examining Christina too, she said, so she asked a question and she was like, just wondering, just wondering. I have nothing else to do. Just, you know, I've been behind bars, I'm a little behind, just catching up, like. Just dragging it out, little. You guys don't mind, do you? Right.

Are there any good movies? Like, people are just like, what's it? I know. No, I know. Yeah. It's like, it's wild. By the way, someone said, now we need a new merch of fly swatter. Just what this says, okay. I have to show you this too. So somebody, let me show you this. First off, Tiggie, thank you so much. Thank you, everyone. I'm just going to show you something really quick. So someone said yesterday that they need to make a bull. Yes, Barbie. you back i don't know i was sitting you're talking to myself i guess i was talking to myself i go wait i'm on i guess laura's thought on and she said maybe it was you maybe it was me who was taught she said new merch fly swatter and i said yes and bickie's slice water yeah and it's only used it for flies and annoying people we'll have the aunt with the fly swatter yeah

so people were saying last night they need to make a b s barbie barbie as Lori and someone else here though said they need a shitsu Barbie Esquire and her Xanix enchiladas well here you go here's the Lori Valo Debel doll, murderous enchilada chef um who made this by the way who do I need to source this to I am that was in a Facebook group so I don't know who made it I think she might want one of those because she looks good that does not look well other than the evil grimace smile thing but she looks good oh yeah you think you think she looks good yeah i think she looks better there on that the doll is prettier the thing that that i do love about this though is you've got all the necessary elements for a night with lorry you've got the accessories you got

the enchiladas you got the loaded gun and then you got the book of mormon where she's going to take the words and make them into what she wants them to be yeah okay so the the The source of this, by the way, I don't know if this is her real name, but on Facebook, she goes by Charlie Angel. So Charlie Angel. I don't know that that's your real name. Sounds like I know. So. I don't blame her if she goes incognito posting this stuff.

But yeah. Thank you. How world do they get this stuff? Wow. You guys are talented. I know. I mean, could you make that? No way.

Mm-mm. Good deal. Good deal. So anyway, there you go. I think she should have that what's it called a rack belt on though. Yeah, they missed the rack belt. I know that she'd have given her the backer. And they're giving us a buzzer.

We have to do every time she says, okay. There you go. Yeah. And then give everyone a buzzer for you, a buzzer for you. Everybody gets a buzzer. Everybody gets a buzzer. Oprah Winfrey. Everybody gets them.

You get a buzzer. You get a buzzer. You get a buzzer. Oh, and people are saying there's an app that generates that toy. I'm going to go have fun then. Oh, okay. I'm going to go have fun. So anyway, anyway.

Well, I'm like, I really wish I would have been down there this week. I would have loved to have been there for Kay when she testified. I really wanted to make it down. I honestly didn't think she would go yesterday. And I thought she would be a lot longer too. So me trying to get out of here and having just open. in this business and I thought we thought we had another person anyways we thought we had more people and we don't have as many but my grandsons are going to be coming to help too so it's going to be

super fun that they're all older they're in their 20s so they're all like but they're musicians so they're busy because they play gigs on the weekend and so I thought you know I'm going to get out of here for three or four days I just haven't been able to but I my plan is to go down For sure. Okay. Are you going to be going back down next week? I am. I am.

I'm going to see this through. Justice for Charles. You know, it's what I've been doing. Yeah, what has it been like watching kind of from where you are from afar? And you've got to probably take this in, I mean, little bits, as you've shared, because this is heavy and this has got to bring back some really tough. Yeah. We get to the point, like where we're like to the point.

point where it's like you stop thinking about it the first thing in the morning and then you you know kind of you think about it during the day and then you get to the point where you like maybe think about it in the evening when kind of things are shut down because it's always kind of there and then and then this happens you know the trial and then you start like you your eyes open in the morning and it's just on your first thing on your mind it's just something that it just it just put you back there. Just, like, I just don't think this, we've, you know, as a, well, at least for Julie and I, for my family, I feel like it's, it's, you all always wonder, like, what is this,

how does this play out? Like, what is going to happen with this? Like, when all the trials are over, what is going to happen? She says, well, you know, I don't know that this is ever going to ever not be a topic of conversation or something that, because. We're never going to feel, no, there's nothing that can happen here and now that can, that puts a period on the end of it because she's never coming back. It's never going to, in our mind, it's never going to be resolved fully here.

Right. And I think that it opens it back up. It makes me, you know, I've talked to you about this before and I've talked to other people about it that are close to us in the case that, you know, I just wish that they would have listened to Charles. I just wish if you would have had one person, it only would have taken one person, whether it be a member of her family, a member of his, I don't know, like, I just think, you know, I think that if somebody that was there that was like living there that could see what was happening. Like I think I feel like throwing K in there in the last minute.

She was just trying to be supportive. Like she didn't understand the gravity of what was taking place where I think her family did understand a lot more about the gravity of what was actually happening. That she was changing pretty quickly. And she, you know, the more her friends she picked up that had these same beliefs and reinforced all of these beliefs and chat and everything, I think it had an inevitable ending that it had. Because it was, it was, the culmination of all of these things, all the tumblers falling into place, all of the actions by everybody, every party. But I think the thing that that it's the most irritating to me in this part of it is if just one person would have gone

with them to the police and said, he's absolutely right. She is saying these things. She is doing these things. She's disappearing. She's this, that. Then all of a sudden, he's not some crazy guy. He's a husband that has legitimate concerns. over the welfare of his children, his life. Yeah, he was scared to death for good reason. And to have it all kind of weighing on whether or not Adam played basketball was a state president. Or I don't know, it just felt really not responsible. And like I think I you know I mean and I do think you know like she said earlier men are not they don't ask as many questions and I don't think they're as proactive as women. I think women are a lot more emotional you know we're emotionally driven by things and I think that I think we would have pushed and we would have probably got a couple friends and said come with me come come with me and go to go with me to the place.

least because something bad is really going to happen. And I don't know. I just think women are a little bit different. And I don't know if that would have made a difference or not. I don't know. You know, because all we know is what happened. But when I think back about him, it just makes me, it makes me so incredibly sad because for the man that he was, he did every single thing he could. And he was. You know, just to kind of on his own. And inevitably, with these people, you know, the numskills that they were, this happened. And then it just led into, you know, I just, you know, I can't, I don't know, I can't get out of my head that I just wish that something would have been done there because JJ and Tiley. and Tammy would still be here.

And I don't know if Charles would have made it. You know, I don't know if he would have been the sacrificial lamb, so to speak, and saving everybody else. But that didn't even happen. I mean, because here they get up, they pick up, they leave. It's just, I don't know, the system just didn't work in this case. And I don't, you know, I don't know who is the blame for that. And I don't know.

I don't know. It's just sad to me. The whole thing is just so, it was so unnecessary. It was so, I still don't believe that she believes any of this. I still don't believe it. I think that there's a part of her that thinks that she is more special than other people and that she's more spiritual and that she, you know, like you said, this narcissistic part of her. But at the same time, I think that she and Chad just wanted

money and they wanted to go off and live on Hawaii and like rich people and have whatever they wanted, not have anybody to answer to or worry about. And because of the fact that it feels like she looked at them as possessions rather than people that had lives and people that loved them and cared about them, they were just possessions that were. were expendable. At the end, it didn't matter. They didn't matter. And the way that they were killed, it is like such a, to me, such a testimony of the fact that she was just cold-blooded when it came to this. So cold-blooded. And Kay even said that in her testimony, she said, Charles came to her and said she doesn't want me, she doesn't want Tiley, she doesn't want JJ.

And it's haunting because that's true. She didn't. They are all dead because of her. And, you know, yeah. Yeah. It's so heartbreaking because they were so important to other people. Like they were important to Kay and her siblings. and her family and you know Tammy was important to us and our family and it's just you know you

can't explain you know I mean people know they you know I think if you take the way that you feel about somebody that you love it's just that you cherish and that you know and you put yourself in my position or in case position or anybody's, you get to that point where you just like cannot imagine somebody harming him, let alone what they went through. And I just think, you know, she's missing that chip somewhere. And I don't know what happened with Chad's. I don't know if he ever had it. I don't, he was such a different person. So, I mean, talk about somebody who was one person and then somebody else. I mean, all of a sudden he's just, and maybe he was always that person. I don't

know. It's so sick. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where ORA comes in. ORA actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But ORA goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark

web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring, or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it, Together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today atora.com slash remove. Protect yourself now atora.com slash remove. It is. I know, and you knew him, you know, you knew him. Yeah.

I don't think. Twenty-five years or whatever, almost 30 years. Well, and yeah, and there was a moment where Kaye on the stand yesterday was explaining her relationship with Lori, and she said, and I loved her. Yeah. That was to me such a profound moment because that's exactly what this is. Like she didn't just trust her. She loved her. Yeah. And yet she has now destroyed his, you know, family killed. You know, it's just, it's just, you know, for for Kay to say that and just think, and this is, you know, and for you to say you knew Chad for, you know, 20 or, you know, nearly, you know, three decades. It's just how do you process that? I think with Kay, you know, like especially, like when I look at her, I just have so much, well, you know, I feel about Ken Larry anyway, but, you know, she had to love her to give her JJ, you know. Right. I think about that. And I think about, you know, she trusted her with the most precious thing. And then to have.

have it turn around that way. It just like I don't know how you you know ever you know come to terms with with that because she was a one person and then she was not that person. And it just, ugh. I did I hear that Becky, Becky asks, has Vicki heard that Kay thinks that Charles would have said take care of Tammy and the kids before me? So In other words, get justice for them first. Worry about me later. Is what case that, yeah, it's touching. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Really kind, really kind comments here. I hope that you can take a moment. I'm sorry everyone that I can't get to them all, but I know that Vicki will go back and read a lot of this chat. Yeah. It's very sweet.

Yeah, very kind. I know this is just a heartbreaking, heartbreaking case, heartbreaking case and Charles deserves justice and I agree with you. He was the one that wasn't listened to and he was he was these children's last line of defense, you know. So and Tammy's and he tried to reach out to Tammy too. He reached out to Tammy. You know, he he warned police. He he talked. He was trying so hard. He was a good man. I mean, Julie, my daughter and son-in-law, they knew him. And they said he was such a nice man, such a good man. And, you know, I think, you know, there's so many things but wrong.

It's just like I don't, that's why I said it's like never feel like you, one person doesn't make a difference. Because I think in this case, especially one person on going with him or backing him up that knew the situation that was close to the situation could have made it different. difference. Yeah. I will go to my grave believing that. Absolutely. I think he did everything that he could. And I think that, you know, who would have ever thought that it would end the way it did. I don't know that that could have ever been. I don't think people think that people are going to do that kind of stuff. Right. Right. Um, a couple of things. Yes, I will be covering the Brandon Boudreau trial. Justice for Brandon. People are asking again, let's just remind people, what state is Vicki and our flower shop in?

And you haven't, you are officially opening very soon. We're here, we're open. We're here, you're open. Okay, the grand opening is what I mean, the grand opening. We are located in Orem, Utah. So we're right next to Provo, where Brigham Young University is.

We could possibly do that. We just kind of depend on what it was and where you are and all of those logistics. But that's potentially something that could happen. Bloom and Brandlis luxury floor. Yep, that's us. Your computer is like, da-na-na-da-da. Just like it. I'd have to rewind it like 10 times to see that.

Yeah, we're in Utah. We're in it, we call it Happy Valley. It's Utah County. So we're just south of Salt Lake City. And yeah, we're just loving it here. It's like beautiful. Like right today, I'm looking out of the Wasatch Mountains, and they are covered in snow.

Oh, beautiful. And it's so pretty here. Yeah, I, you know, I loved my shop in Arizona, it and we had so much fun in that shop. And we, it was a joy being there. And it's so hot there now that I'm not missing the heat. Like I, you guys were in Phoenix. I was like, oh, I know it's 100 at least there.

Was it, is it really hot? It's okay right now. Yeah. It's okay. But it's going to be, it's getting hotter each day. Yeah. So it's coming. So the branded Boudreau trial will be, you know,

115 degrees. So yeah. That's going to be a tough one. Yeah. Yeah. Some people are recommending that you carry fly swatters. Maybe you should reach out, get some in the stock. I'm going to have to buy some them and put them in the shop now. Buy some pretty ones. Like go find some floral ones and like just have to be like our fly swatters. The only people know that buy them is if they come in and they actually know what they are, then I don't buy them. I don't buy them. I think. they come in and say, I saw you on Lauren. And people do that to me all the time. They're like, you're familiar. And I'm like, really? And then they're like, it's like they hit, the light goes on. They'll go, yeah, that's me. But yeah, I should, I should go get some fly swatter. That would be

hilarious. Yeah. Also, I have to say this, because I have to agree with Beverly. I, I, an underrated moment from the trial was when Judge Boreski passively aggressively, passively, aggressively, says to Lori, to the extent you're comparing yourself to biblical figures, I'll allow it. Well, that's the one biblical character that you would really want to compare yourself with because you look really good next to her. But there was Lori Vallow, Daybill. Like, she really believes that she's translated. So do you buy that, Lauren? That she believe she's translated or that I think she's translated. Oh, yeah, she's translated.

No. Because she does, when she talks about it, she goes, oh, so then it's not outside of our religious police. No, Lori, we think that happens all day, every day. That's, you're hitting it right on. I'm translated. Are you translated? I'm aging backwards. I speak a little Spanish.

Yeah. I age, I age bad. You can get on a high-depth filter. So, you know, I was like, give it back in. You said, are you translated? I said I speak a little Spanish. I missed a joke. I missed it.

You're listening to me. People are listening to you. That was my fault. I feel bad now. What were you saying? Because I wanted to bring that to your attention. Oh, no. Yeah.

I mean, you do look like you're aging backwards. So, you know. Oh, my gosh. Tomorrow's my birthday. Happy. Happy birthday, Aunt Vicki. I don't even want to tell you how old I am. This is gray hair, people.

That's not showing. And you have beautiful hair, thick, beautiful hair. I'm thinking about just cutting it all off. Like maybe a little pixie. You know what, keep it. Six. I'm not going back there. I didn't look good then.

It's probably what I want for like a flower shop persona, but I kind of picture, like I said, as I started this live, I said it's sort of like a 90s rom-com, Aunt Vicki and her flower shop. And I feel like you need the wavy long gray hair. That just fits it. I'm a little bit old hippie. So that, that, yeah, a denim shirt, you know, a denim shirt. And, you know, I'm picturing like, no, you got to, you got to, you got to keep. Don't, don't, don't cut your hair. I love your hair. I love your hair. Sweet. Thank you. I mean, Tamois would be beautiful, too.

Oh, yeah. You know, a Tamois hairstyle. But I like, I like, I like the long, Ann, Vicky. blocks. She, you know, sometimes you'll break some stuff like that comes up and I'm just like, oh, it's like such a sweet memory for me and my sister. Happy birthday, and Vicki from South Africa. Oh, I love that. Thank you. South Africa. Wow. You guys are from everywhere. I love that. Do you find out where people are from? Can you tell? Well, we're going to ask them now. Everybody let us know where you're all listening from. And also, this is just so funny, as a soon-to-be seminary student, my first question will be, am I translated? Do you speak Spanish? Yeah, let's see. Hi, Lori. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, this is so fun. Australia. Okay, here we are. Australia, Wyoming, Massachusetts, Chicago,

Jersey. Oh, it's, you share a birthday with someone's daughter, with Brenda's daughter, Kentucky, Oregon, Dallas, Minnesota, New Zealand. Wow. From Seattle. And Fiki, what a great surprise to see you. Oh, it's going. Oh, so fun. Italy, Alabama, Virginia, Colorado, Maine, Michigan, New York. New York. Las Vegas. All right. You guys, this was so nice. Thank you and Vicki for coming on. We've missed you here.

We want you on again if that's okay. Thank you. Vicki and I are both so proud of our friend, dear friend Kay Woodcock, and so I'm glad that we could just process that together with all of you and spend your birthday eve with you at your beautiful flower shop. Yeah.

Thank you. I also just, I want to remind everyone into that tomorrow night. Oh, where you going? Well, I don't know. I disappeared. So I'll just do that. My, my, my, here I am. I'm still here, guys, don't worry. I'm just, it's the portal. I'm translating in the portal and I'll be right back. But, um, I was just going to say that, uh, tomorrow night, John and I are going to be on Colby's channel talking to Colby. I, I believe at 7.30, it might be earlier. So just plan on that too, I want to say. And let me see. Supposed of me has been fixed. Oh, look at that. Ask him if he. I'm back. Do I look younger? Do I look younger?

Yeah. Yeah. See? Ask Colby if he got the rocking chair that I sent them when they had their baby. Because I didn't talk to him or either one of them. And I don't think Julie has either since then. Ask him when you have you don't have to ask him on air just ask him if you got it and Because if he didn't dang it But I'm sure he did but tell him I said hi. I'm glad to see him Processing this and coming out more and working his way through this because he needs it He needs everybody's support too. We love a whole leader. He's got such a cute little family and yeah

I will tell you. I'll tell them. And Fickey, thank you for being here. Happy, happy birthday. We love you. We'll talk saying again. If you're in or if you're in or I'm stop by, hook your head in and say hello to me. Okay, we will. And I'll see you shortly too. Yeah. We'll see you. Okay, bye-bye. I don't know how to close this.

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