Hidden True Crime - UNITED HEALTH CARE CEO SHOOTING: Breaking down the arrest of Luigi Mangione

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

This was recorded on December 9, 2024, the day 26-year-old Luigi Mangione was arrested and charged with killing UnitedHealthCare CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan. John and Lauren are covering the very latest in this crime. Subscribe for additional episodes coming soon. What started as a simple conversation at their dinner table became a captivating podcast. Join the dynamic duo of Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist, and Lauren Matthias, an investigative journalist, as they delve into the psychological facets of unthinkable crimes every week. Their unique perspectives and in-depth analysis offer a fresh take on true crime storytelling. Thank you for your support through sponsorships, subscribing, listening, and becoming a Patreon member at Patreon.com/HiddenTrueCrime Our Sponsors:* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Acorns: https://acorns.com/HIDDENTRUECRIME* Check out Armoire and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.armoire.style* Check out Effecty and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://www.effecty.com* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code HIDDENTRUECRIME for a great deal: https://happymammoth.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/hidden-a-true-crime-podcast1836/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit Verizon.com today. Additional terms apply. Service and required for Apple Watch and iPad. Like many people across the country and the globe, we have been following closely and carefully the story of the United Healthcare CEO, Brian Thompson, who was gunned down in Midtown, Manhattan. And today an arrest was made. I'm going to read to you the latest New York Times article updated 56 minutes ago, or at least the first two paragraphs. So we know we're getting the latest information.

A suspect was charged with murder on Monday in the assassination of the chief executive of United Healthcare in Midtown Manhattan hours after he was apprehended in Pennsylvania. Luigi Mangione, 26, has been charged in Manhattan with second degree murder. According to online records, court records. also charged with three gun charges and forgery. Earlier on Monday, today, Mr. Mangione was detained at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania by police officers responding to a tip from an employee there. We'll start there. For those new to our channel, I am a journalist and John, Dr. John Matthias with me, is a forensic psychologist, criminal psychologist, and we are going to tell you what we know so far about Luigi Mangione, this crime, and what you think, John.

This is an absolutely fascinating case to me for a lot of reasons, but I had a quick dinner with my father this evening, and my father doesn't follow crime, he doesn't care about crime, he doesn't know anything about crime, and all he could do tonight was talk about, ask me questions about this particular crime, so I thought, oh, we really need to talk about this. I think there's a lot of,

interesting elements of this crime already. So let me just say that my analysis is obviously speculative and preliminary because we just, we just know basic facts. Right. But I think what we do know, there are some pieces of this puzzle that are already, I think, important. And they start providing a bit of a picture of this guy. One of the questions people had that we've heard is, I don't get it.

This guy doesn't look like a typical shooter. He's got a master's degree. He doesn't look like this loner that a lot of school shooters kind of resemble or shooters in general, mass shooters. He seems like he's pretty well adjusted, right? We know now he has no prior criminal record. He has no, that we're aware of at this point, no drug or mental health history.

He was high school valedictorian. in Maryland, I believe. Is that right? Yeah, and a private school, an elite private school. And so people were confused. They were saying, well, this guy doesn't look like a typical shooter. And the reason that's true is because he's not. He's actually quite different than, you know, we talk a lot.

We've talked about shooters and particular school shooters, mass shooters on our channel quite a bit. And that's not who this guy is. A real clue to who this person is is the fact that he left a three-page manifesto. And so far we haven't been able to obtain any elements. Right, we haven't been able to obtain any of the contents of the manifesto. We have some of it. We have a few lines. So there's a three-page manifesto.

Here's what we know that is in the manifesto. One of the sentences is, quote, these parasites had it coming. Presumably parasites refers to, I get it could refer to, I guess, the healthcare industry and or CEOs in general, corporate America. I guess one of the summaries. That's what people have speculated on, yes, and that's what he's referring to. Yes, corporate America.

One of the, one of the summaries of people that have seen the manifesto that have commented on and have said, that he showed, quote, ill will towards corporate America. So I presume Parasites has obviously something to do with that. Somebody else said that the manifesto had no specific threats, but it did show the mindset of someone who might engage in a targeting killing. And on that issue, there's another line we do have from the manifesto. It is, quote, I do apologize for any strife and trauma, but it had to be done.

unquote. So those are the two lines I have from the manifesto. And again, this idea of apologizing for any strife and trauma is interesting because it plausibly shows a certain amount of empathy. Maybe empathy's too strong, but it suggests that this is a different type of killer. Most mass shooters aren't going to apologize in advance for a behavior like this. They're not going to apologize in advance for a cold-blooded murder. And assuming these lines are accurate,

that's what he's doing here. So he sees a certain inevitability to what he's doing. Right. And that's interesting. When this crime first occurred, it did, my first thought was you and I had talked about this,

that there did seem to be kind of this ideological component to this crime in the sense that, for example, after the murder, he really didn't, there was no personal contact with the victim. You know, typically in a murder that's personal or would the murder feel some connection to the victim or wants the victim to know that they're the ones responsible, a lot of times they'll, they might walk up to the victim and say something or they might fire another shot in close proximity. This, this killer didn't do that. This killer,

This killer shot from a distance. There never appeared to be any personal connection between him and the victim. And so that was, to me, that was the beginning of a clue towards what this was, meaning that I felt like he's trying to make a statement, right? This is more of an ideological type murder, in my opinion. And now that we have this manifesto, I think that evidence is starting to bear that out. I told Lauren that, you know, if you look at kind of, of the history of ideological killers.

It really, in a peculiar way, it starts with a fictional character. And that character is Raskolnikov from crime and punishment. Dostoevsky wrote that book in 1866. And it was considered, it was considered very radical. It was considered highly unusual. There were a lot of objections to that book. It had a lot of violence in it. which in 1866 was fairly unusual.

But Raskolnikov, just to set the stage here a little bit, this is going to be a quick history. But Raskolnikov was in St. Petersburg, Russia. And Russia at the time was ruled by a czar. And there were a lot of ideas circulating at the time. There were a lot of ideas around like nihilism and revolutionary acts. And that book, Crime and Punishment, is really an attempt by Dosyevsky to kind of figure that out.

And this killer, Raskolnikov, who ends up murdering several people, he's flirting with these different ideas. And one of those ideas is nihilism. And his goal, Raskolnikov's goal is he wants to see if he's going to be this nealist, he wants to see if he can commit a murder, and essentially not feel anything. In other words, he perceives that he uses Napoleon as an example. He takes Napoleon as kind of this great man, and he thinks that he can act like Napoleon, he can become this great figure.

And these great figures like Napoleon, in his view, they don't show remorse. They're kind of these predators who do what they have to do to advance humanity. I'm setting the stage here with a book, I think, that really it puts this idea of an ideological killer on the map for the first time in Western history. And so it's important in that sense because Raskolnikov is Dostoev's attempt to work out this idea of what a killer who was killing just for an idea essentially or ideas. He's testing out ideas. And he's killed, so he's killing for a purpose.

Right. And that's what this guy is doing. This guy is in the lineage of Raskolnikov. You know, who else is in that lineage? Ted Kaczynski. Ted Kaczynski is a pure ideological killer who he's sending these mail bombs to different CEOs or academics who are technologically based. They're academics in the in the 70s and 80s who are studying artificial intelligence.

And Kaczynski has this fear that somehow, technology is going to ruin the world. You know, ironically, some of that, some of that might not be entirely untrue, but putting aside the fact that Kaczynski had mental health problems, and obviously the way he handled it was was not healthy, that, you know, there's other ways to deal with those issues. If you have issues about technology,

then engage in debate about it, right? don't send bombs to people. The reason I mentioned crime and punishment, though, is that that's really where this whole idea of an ideological killer begins. And Rask Kalnikov, by the way, was a university student. He was extremely intelligent. He was, in many ways, he was a bit of an elitist. In many ways, Rask Kalnikov looks like Luigi Mangione.

And that's why I think it's important, because if you want to begin to understand Luigi Mangione, in some peculiar way, you have to go back, I think, to 1866 and to Raskolnikov. And if you look at Raskolnikov and the lineage of killers that come after him, you've got people like Kaczynski would be the greatest example because Kaczynski was also, like Luigi, considered quite brilliant.

I mean, he was clearly destructive and violent, but he was quite brilliant. You know, other murderers in this kind of lineage would include like the 9-11 terrorists. It would include Tim McVeigh, right? You have all these murderers who essentially are killing for an idea or an ideological position. And I think that's exactly what we have here. Okay. So you have a guy that, and by the way, this is an important part of the story,

Luigi has, he was a huge reader. He was an avid reader. This is important. He had a good reads account where he did a number of reviews. In fact, he had roughly 295 reviews. And one of the books he reviewed was, guess what? One of the books he reviewed was called Industrial Society in Its Future, which was the manifesto of the one Theodore John Kaczynski.

In other words, the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, who, as I just mentioned, falls in the lineage of Raskolnikov, right? he's like the first pure ideological killer in this country in America. And here you have Luigi Mangione reading, not only reading the book by Kaczynski or reading Kaczynski's manifesto, but commenting quite favorably upon it. Yes. So I'm going to pull that up.

Yeah, if you want to read it, it's not that long. But I think if you want to start looking at the, psychological profile of who this killer is, this review really shows a lot. This is Luigi Mangione's Goodreads account. This is his review of, you can see that, there you go, industrial society in its future by Ted Kaczynski, who we now know as the Unabomber, obviously. This was, you can see that the review was written on February 2nd, 2024. Again, my argument is that Mangione fits into this kind of lineage that begins with, Dostieski and it goes through Ted Kaczynski in this country in America.

And here you have someone who's deeply influenced by Kaczynski. They have different ideologies, by the way. I'll talk about that in a minute. But yeah, let me just quickly read. Let me read the review here because this is really important to understanding who this person is. And I should say too, obviously, this is an alleged murderer. You know, obviously he's going to get his date. in court and, you know, we don't know how this is going to develop, but, but he's innocent at the

moment. So we're, we're speculating about his guilt. So here's what he says about Kaczynski, the Unabomber. Clearly written by a mathematics prodigy reads like a series of lemmas on the question of 21st century quality of life. It's easy to quickly and thoughtless, to quickly and thoughtlessly, I guess he meant thoughtlessly. It's easy to quickly and thoughtlessly write this off as the manifesto of a lunatic in order to avoid facing some of the uncomfortable problems it identifies. But it's simply impossible to ignore how prescient many of his predictions about modern society turned out. He was a violent individual, rightfully imprisoned, who maimed innocent people. While these actions tend to be characterized as those of a crazy Luddite,

however, they are more accurately seen as those of an extreme political revolutionary. He, meaning Kaczynski had the balls to recognize that peaceful protest has gotten us absolutely nowhere. And at the end of the day, he's probably right. Oil barons haven't listened to any environmentalists, but they feared him. When all other forms of communication fail, violence is necessary to survive. You may not like his methods, but to see things from his perspective, it's not terrorism, it's war and revolution. Fossilville companies actively suppress anything. that stands in their way. And within a generation or two, it will begin costing human lives

by greater and greater magnitudes until the earth is just a flaming ball orbiting third from the sun. Peaceful protest is outright ignored. Economic protest isn't possible in the current system. So how long until we recognize that violence against those who lead us to such destructed is justified as self-defense? These companies don't care about you or your kids or your kids. They have zero qualms about burning down the planet for a buck. So why should we have any qualms about burning them down to survive? Wow. We're animals just like everyone else on this planet, except we've forgotten the law of the jungle and bend over for our overlords when any other animal would recognize the threat and fight to the death for their survival. And then he quotes,

violence never solved anything unquote is a statement uttered by cowards and predators that's his review wow that's obviously if we want to understand this guy i think that review is provides a really good look at this guy's psyche uh and i think it supports my position that this is this is not a typical mass murderer or typical shooter or school shooter if you want to go with that this is someone quite different. This is a very educated, in a way, visionary who sees himself as a revolutionary. He sees himself, I think, as someone who's clearly fighting the system. There's almost like this, I think there's, there's a bit of naivety here, but there's also like this mezzionic utopianism that I think, you know, he, and again, I think, so this killing, I think is

very symbolic in the sense that he sees this as somehow challenging the system. And he wants to, you know, I go back and forth on this issue, but I, you know, when they, when they found him today, he, he started shaking. This is interesting. This was in the arrest. When they found him today and they, they, they, they, they IDed him. He was surprised. In fact, I'm going to read that because it was the most interesting part of the criminal complaint when he was arrested in Altoona today. Okay. Is here. It says, the officer asked the mail if it had been to New York recently, and the mail became quiet and started to shake.

Now, usually, usually in an arrest or a criminal complaint, you're not going to, that's, that's pretty dramatic. That's not typically something you would see. In other words, you're not going to reference somebody's, how they react to an arrest. You're just going to arrest them and you're just going to, you know, the defendant was arrested, right? But that's not what he says. That's not what the officers say here. He started to shake, which indicates to me that he was quite literally shaking. Not only was he shaking physically, but he was shaken by the arrest.

He didn't see this coming at all. Right. He gave them a fake arrest, isn't that right? He had fake ID. Or fake ID is what I meant. Yeah. Yeah, he had a fake ID. I think he was quite startled in a way.

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He was in Pennsylvania. He was eating in a McDonald's. He was just kind of chilling out, taking his time, right? He did not see this arrest coming at all. And so, you know, which is interesting to me because the bras and nature of this crime, just kind of the, you know, in broad daylight at roughly 7 a.m. in the morning in New York City, which is like the city with the most cameras and surveillance. I know. In New York City, yeah. And so, but I think there's a part of him that must have known he was going to be caught.

And I think there's a part of them that must know that the symbolic and kind of the symbolic nature of this crime was sending a message in his mind's eye to corporate America. Right. And it was, you know, I think he's trying to draw attention to this problem in this country or maybe around the world. And he's trying to rally support for it. So in some ways, I think this guy eventually, or maybe now, I don't know, but he probably sees himself as a bit of a martyr. for this cause. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. And so he's, he's, although, right, although he was shaking at the time, I think I would argue that there's got to be a part of him that knows he's going to be caught.

You know, he knows he's going to be caught and he's going to kind of become this martyr for this cause. Whatever that is, you know, whatever his manifesto ends up saying. What's one financial lesson you learned the hard way? I'll go first. It's not too late to start saving. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you have right now. And one of the best things about acorns is they allow you to see projected growth on their website.

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That's code Hidden True Crime. Use that with Happy Mammoth.com for 15% off today. You know, so there's many ways in which this guy sees himself as a visionary. He sees himself as kind of this mezzionic, utopian idealist. But he's also kind of this elitist. You know, there's an irony here. He's clearly, there's also kind of this. anti-capitalist undertone, right, against corporate America and greed. The monopoly money they found in his backpack would be symbolic of that,

you know, that he's making fun of just commerce in general and the means of, you know, the currency and what that means and greed, right? He's kind of drawing attention to all of that. And corporate greed in particular with the victim. Brian Thompson, who was in the midst of his own scandal of insider trading where, you know, he was trying to amass a huge fortune from information that only he and a few of his friends had. So I think obviously Luigi Mangione understands that. And he's trying to draw attention to that and draw attention to his beliefs in his

ideology and I think we'll probably learn more about that over time. I'm sure this is the last, if he does get convicted of this eventually, this is not the last we're going to hear from him. My guess is you're going to probably see some writings from prison, right, if it gets that far. For someone of his intelligence, you know, it's interesting, though, that, I mean, he has to understand that just by targeting the CEO of United Healthcare doesn't mean he's going to solve these problems. That's where this is, that's where this is a little confusing. I mean, that there's something very impulsive about this. I mean, he planned it. He showed up in New York 10 days before the crime. So clearly this is premeditated, which by the way, like to charge him

with second degree murder, that's interesting. I thought the same thing. I was shocked by that. They charged him tonight with murder and it was second degree murder, not first. Yeah, I know. I mean, but they can easily amend that. Yeah, they can easily amend it. You're probably still, they're probably trying to figure out exactly, you know, what happened.

And I don't know. I mean, but they probably don't have enough evidence put together a solid case for first degree murder yet. I'm sure they will. If he wants to be a bit of a martyr for health care, that makes sense to me. Like if he knows he's going to get caught

and he wants to be a martyr for health care reform and for all the problems in the system, you know, I guess that's, this would be one way of doing it, not a particularly healthy way, but as he points on in talking about the Unabomber, peaceful protest doesn't work in his mind. Right?

Right. Arguing or trying to argue or make your case to the system doesn't work in his mind, right? So if there's no rational means or logical rational means of resolving a complaint and you have this kind of intense personal pain, then I guess you're more likely to act it out, and you're probably more likely to act it out in an impulsive manner. And at least for a moment, I guess he'll feel some sense of relief

or some sense of control or whatever it he's looking, that some maybe a little bit of, he'll appease his anger to some degree, but obviously it's not going to solve his problem. So I guess if he's looking to be a martyr for a larger cause, and rally a bunch of Americans in particular to his cause. That could be the case, which again would put him in that category. He would be one of Res. Kalnikovs. He would be in the lineage of Res. Kalnikov and the Unabomber.

We have credible evidence that he had back problems, he had chronic pain, and that according to his friends, that it, quote, changed everything for him. So even if you just throw that in, if you throw in this, this, this kind of sympathy for the Unabomber and this identification with the Unabomber, which he seems to have, except his, his obviously isn't technologically based. His is, his is more anti-corporate in general, in particular healthcare, but probably just corporate America in general. So let's call his, his ideology is more, you know, anti-capitalist. If you take that belief system and you couple it with his intense back pain and his

failed back surgery, you're going to have a crime that's going to be, it's going to be much more personal, and it's going to be much more driven by anger and helplessness, and he's much more likely to act out in the way he did. However, he didn't know Brian Thompson. He knew who he was and what he represented. And so again, that's more of an intellectual murder. Yeah. He's killing what he symbolizes. He's not killing the person that he doesn't, right? He's murdering. He's representing what What Brian Thompson represents. What Brian Thompson represents to him is corporate greed taken to an extreme. And corporate greed in particular in an area that he detest, which is health care.

And that's his, that's his motive. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I go back to, in crime and punishment by Dosyoski, Raskolnikov is very similar. He, Raskolnikov considers himself to be a revolutionary. Raskolnikov sees himself as a great man, a bit of a moment. martyr that's going to in some ways engage in murder and feel no guilt, no conscience. He is, now I'm really going to get deep in the weeds here, but many have argued that

Raskolnikov is comparable to the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche's Ubermensch, or what sometimes translated as Superman, Overman, whatever, that Nietzsche envisioned a human being that could stand outside of common morality and stand outside of common cultural and moral codes. Nietzsche called that the Ubermensch. And many people have said that Raskolnikov was, there was, Dosieski became before Nietzsche, but many have argued that in many ways, Raskolnikov was the model for Nietzsche's idea of the Ubermensch.

And you have, you certainly have elements of that here, that this person. Luigi Mangione doesn't, he believes he can stand outside of, of law and social norms. And he can, he can transcend kind of the normal moral codes that most of us adhere to, such as murder. And he can do it because he's justified. And he can do it because he's, again, because he's this visionary who, in his mind's eye, I guess, he's a visionary that's going to kind of lead the way maybe on health care. reform? I don't know. The story still needs to be written, but I think you have elements of all that

here. Lady Buglisa is asking, Dr. John, what does it say about those of us that have mixed reactions because we understand his grievance, CEO insider training for the personal wealth, yet, you know, murdering is never okay. What does that say about those of us that have mixed reactions? I think they're, you know, like in Dostoevsky's novel, I think there's always kind of this intrigue and fascination with the rebel, you know, that Raskolnikov would be considered like an anti-hero in the sense that he commits murder, but he's also someone who's rebelling against the cultural norms of the day. And so there's something, I think there's something appealing about the anti-hero that challenges established norms. And certainly I think that when it comes to

healthcare, most of us have probably had some issues now and then with the system. and we can relate to that. Right. So, right? And so I think, you know, health care in this country is a mess. And most of us, I'm sure, can relate to that. We can acknowledge that. Yeah.

There's this very rebellious quality to this guy. There's this oppositional quality. And I think a lot of us, you know, you see it in westerns, right? We see it in a lot of the stories that some of it that are very appealing to us. We see it in, you know, these heroes that are, you know, kind of do try to transcend some of the normal cultural moors. And there's something appealing about that because people like that, as much as we, you know, as much as I would disagree with the way he did this and murder is not the way anyone should solve a problem, that somebody like him would consider himself to be a revolution. And I think he would say that this was necessary to lead in his mind's eye again to lead to systemic change. So I don't know. You know, again, well, if he doesn't harm himself at some point,

which I think he'll be at high risk for because for many reasons, not least of which would be his age, you know, I think this is a guy who probably might be vocal about whatever. whatever this has cause, if that's the way to call it, if that's what we call it. Yeah. There were a couple of great comments, and I thought I had starred them, and now they're not showing up in my stars, but O'Mante saying, the romantic side of us can sometimes think we could be the hero that can do things we really can't or shouldn't. I thought that was true because Sylvie also says he seemed like a thoughtful young man

that could have changed things from the inside. Yeah. It's a loss for all of us to see the potentials run away. I'm sad for the victim for him and their families, you know, right, in the romantic side of us. And the rebellious side, you know, the, it's always the rebel. It's always the outsider that, you know, comes into town as the, as the rebel and the westerns that can affect change or that shakes up the town, right? that the rebel comes in to the corrupt town and upends the normal hierarchy. And so a lot of times I think we can relate to that, that we respect the rebel,

although not committing murder necessarily, but we respect the rebel that tries to change the system. This is a developing story. We are learning a lot every hour. There is more information coming out. And we will continue to follow this now and bring you what we know about Luigi. We even watched his valedictorian speech today or I did. It seemed actually like a very simple, kind valedictorian speech. He thanked his parents and the parents of all of the students who sent them there so that he could be friends with them.

People cheered him on. It's, uh, it's, it is surprising to many people. This was not, let me ask you actually some of the things people said. they're like, this isn't, they've said that it's not your average school shooter and you started with that, you know? Right. No, in fact, in fact, it's, in fact, I would go so far as to say it's nothing like your typical school shooter that this is quite different in the sense that as I pointed out multiple times tonight, that this is someone driven more by a particular vision and ideology than it is by, by, you know, social isolation. and bullying and a lot of things we'll see in school shooters or mass shooters. He's not a,

this is not a social podcast. This is a very intelligent, successful, apparently high functioning human beings. Oh, yes. Yes, he has about 1,500 friends on Facebook,

the public Facebook friends list. And he does seem like a, a popular young man. And again, yes, innocent, it's all proven guilty. And that's part of the tragedy here, is this is someone who, he seemed really intelligent, he seemed kind, right? He was quite social. And I think this is someone who could have really contributed to society. This is someone who could have made a difference at some level.

And the tragedy here is that he went down this path. Yeah. you know and again like not to harp on this but like in the Dostieski book and I know that's a fictional character but it's Dostiaski

portrayed these characters so well they feel very lifelike that Raskolnikov is quite young and you know I think one of one of the things that oftentimes you know you don't see you typically don't see

older revolutionary They tend to be a little, they tend to be younger like Luigi and they tend to be more idealistic, right? I think there's there's something here about his naivete and his lack of life experience and his belief somehow that this kind of utopian vision he has for the world or health care or whatever, you know, anti, you know, anti-capitalist sentiments can, somehow come to fruition. You know, there's something here that has to do with youth, I guess, is what I'm saying, in the sense that, you know, when you're younger typically, and this would be true of me, when I was younger, I was much more idealistic than I am now.

So, and, you know, and I probably had some anger around the fact that certain ideals were not being met in the world. And so I can relate to this to some degree. But some of this is about youth in the sense that, you know, revolution. revolutionaries typically aren't 60 years old. So, and that was a point that Dostiaski made too. This is going to be our first analysis of this, and it's a very preliminary one, but those are kind of my initial thoughts.

We value your thoughts. This is going to be an, you know, ongoing dialogue, I'm sure, and we'll, you know, have to change our analysis a little bit, or we may change our analysis analysis. obviously as we learn more. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks everyone for being here tonight, and we'll see you soon again. All right. See you. Bye-bye. Good night. Ladies and gentlemen, we are now boarding group A. Please have your boarding passes ready to scan. If your phone is cracked, old, or was chewed up by your Chihuahua travel companion, please refrain from holding up the line. Instead, go to Verizon and trade in any phone in any

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