High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - A High Hopes Exclusive Interview With Phillies Assistant GM Preston Mattingly

Episode Date: November 19, 2023

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz sit down for a conversation with Phillies assistant general management for player development Preston Mattingly. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball Isn't Boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is.

Another fact, so jump aboard the B.I.B. Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. And it is our pleasure to welcome to the show. We've talked about him thousands of times on the show. We wanted him hired. Well, we might have gotten him hired.

We're not going to take full credit for it. But, you know, we did say hire Preston Mattingly and then he got hired now he's an assistant general manager player development like moving on up Preston thank you so much for taking the time man no it's an honor to be on obviously listen to you guys a lot and uh yeah just my pleasure to be here well sorry in advance for listening to us a lot you know we lead you down a lot of wrong paths um but but i will say i mean you brian barber on the podcast i mean it's been uh it's certainly been an off season so um i i just i have some nerd out questions at the end i mean look at jack smile he's like beaming right now. It's a big day. It's a big day. But there's a lot to get into and just really, really,

really appreciate you taking a couple of times or a couple of minutes out of your busy, busy day to join us. Yeah. It's going to be awesome. We really appreciate it. Let's let's dive in. And I want to start, I want to go back first before we dive into the Phillies and your time now for those who might be like oh mattingly that sounds familiar uh don mattingly son donnie baseball so just going back and starting you know someone who's literally spent their whole life around baseball

what was it like to to a you know grow up as donnie baseball as your dad and and also just to grow up you, literally at the stadium around the game like that? You know, in the moment, you probably don't appreciate it. But I think as I got older, I kind of, you know, realized like some of the things I was exposed to at a very young age, you look back and it's like, man, that was that was really cool. You know, like Yogi Berra staying at my house and getting to be in the clubhouse and, you know, Yankee Stadium and go to all star games. It's just like you took that for granted probably as a kid, but now looking back, it's like, man, what a special time that was.

And honestly, my dad's been great. He doesn't push me to do anything. He lets me kind of be myself, be my own person, and it's been great to kind of grow up that way without any pressure with him putting on myself. Yeah, and I don't think people realize how great a player your dad was. I mean, 307 career hitter. If the back didn't get hurt, I, I've believed my whole life that he'd be a hall of famer. He was,

he was an awesome player, a nine time gold Glover. But with that in mind, the experience you had as a kid being around the game and all that, and, you know, segueing to playing, you were a player as well, a first-round draft pick by the Dodgers, played in the minor leagues. I want to get back to growing up, but in terms of being a player and playing in the minors and then not making it, how did that experience kind of set you up for player development?

Were there things you noticed at the time when you were playing that you could kind of pinpoint, oh, you know, that's important for young kids or this or that? Like were there things then that kind of transferred over to what you do now? I think you always take from your experiences, right? I mean, like the things that happened to you, whether it's the way I was as a hitter or the way I was treated by the admin staff there. But honestly, whether it's the way I was as a hitter or the way I was treated by the admin staff there.

But honestly, like it's not necessarily baseball, I think, that's impacted me the most in player development. Honestly, my time at Lamar playing basketball, I got like I was obviously a little bit older at the time. And in going back to being around 18, 19 year old kids, seeing like what makes them tick, what makes them what motivates them to be what they you know to reach their goals and i think that really helped me as as much as my playing days in the minor leagues as well and do you think your experience one more on that do you think your experience as a kid growing up around the game helped with with it as well do you think it's something that you kind of saw from an early age and and was almost ingrained in you possibly i think like you get exposed to people, right?

You get exposed to different people you get to have conversations with. And it allowed me to ask questions and learn the game through their eyes, through, you know, different people and that have had lots of experience throughout their years. Now, no consideration to ever growing a mustache like Donnie baseball. You said, you said, I don't know if I can pull that off or what no you know I've never done it uh I don't love the look honestly I give my dad a lot of crap about it but I did do it one time uh one time as a when I dressed up for Halloween I did it and took a photo and I that photo I don't really like it out there much

but I tried and you know he gave me some crap back and said hey i was growing that mustache at about age 12 so he said you need to keep working i mean it was like a full-on handlebar back in the day your dad rocked it man yeah it was it was a legit one he had the 80s look down him and tom selig man yeah came to the 80s uh all right so you come over from the padres um and uh obviously it's very very exciting you know all the word was how you were a fast riser and was viewed as like a rising star in the industry um what would you say the biggest growth has happened since you have now kind of taken over and ran with player development since since you started i mean just probably managing people honestly you know i was doing a lot of things in san diego and you know you don't really understand like how big of a

challenge and task that is you know obviously in player development ginormous department it's you know 150 plus you're dealing with you know other departments as well so i think managing people was probably the biggest thing that i'm not saying i was bad at it but I think you always can evolve you always can get better and I think just just to understand like every person you're dealing with has a family has a since something going on in their life and just to you don't take that for granted when you're dealing with people and how do you feel you know infrastructure wise you know coming over really kind of you know laying your putting your fingerprints on the player development side. Where do you kind of feel like it is at this point?

Yeah, I feel really good. Obviously, you're always trying to get better. It's really great in the organization. We've added a lot of resources. We built a pitching lab in Clearwater. We've added biomechanics. We have multiple pitching coaches, upper level, lower level. I think the one great thing about the Phillies is we have the resources

and we invest them in our players. Yeah, and the pitching lab and everything that's happening down in Clearwater. Oh, my God, he's beating me again. He's beating me again, Preston. You said pitching lab, and it was over for me personally. So, yeah, Clearwater, that's going to be really, really exciting. You talked a lot about protecting the standard. What is the standard to you? Yeah, I think it's like how we conduct ourselves. Honestly, it's four things that take no talent. We talk to our players all

the time, respect how we compete, how we play. And I think it just goes to like how we do things on a daily basis. And we hold our players to that. I think this is a championship organization. And it's always been that. And I think we had to get back to that, to like, we have standards in this organization and we're not going to accept anything but the best because that's what we want to be. You know, we want to build something that's sustainable for years to come. And I think to do that, our players had to understand that it comes with expectations and how we do all the things I just mentioned. You talked about before the importance of the people you're around and learning from them.

I mean, you're obviously under one of the great, you know, he's president of baseball. He's one of the great front office men in the history of the game. I mean, Dave Dombrowski will go in the Hall of Fame someday. He's won multiple World Series, multiple organizations, been there with four different teams. What has it been like working under Dave and what kind of things have you learned from Dave that have kind of helped progress you in your career? Yeah, Dave's tremendous, right? But it's not just Dave, it's Dave Dombrowski, it's Sam Fold, it's Ani Kalambi, it's Jorge Valandia, it's Ned Wright, it's a group of people. But Dave specifically, I've learned a lot just watching how he conducts

himself and how he treats people and how he conducts meetings and how he just, the way he sets up his day, honestly, everything. I could sit there and watch him for hours, but he's been tremendous for me. He's let me do my job, let our staff work. And I think it's been tremendous to work for him. You've been around a lot of really smart people in your time. I mean, Andrew Friedman, a lot of smart people in that Padres organization. Do you try and take certain things from people that you see? Do you see like, oh, wow, Andrew Friedman's really good at this. I like that.

But Dave does this thing differently. And I like that a lot. Do you try and take things and meld them into your own style? Or do you kind of get a blueprint and try to follow the thing that just works? Yeah, I think you're always taking from everyone, you know, whether it's, you know, Andrew, when my dad was managing out there, AJ Preller in San Diego, the way he did things, then Dave and who I'm with now, but it's not just the baseball side. Like, you know, the basketball coach I had in college, Tick Price, I learned a lot from

him. My high school coaches, like my mom, honestly, whatever things she's been through, like you take from everyone and you're always trying to grow. You're trying to get better. You know, we were really fortunate as an organization, myself, Sam, and a few other people to go, you know, go down to Alabama. And we got to talk to Nick Saban for 45 minutes about just development and players. And we went to Clemson and we went to Kentucky and we did a bunch of different things, which was really special to get to grow and not just grow as a person myself but help grow our organization so um obviously we love the Phillies right but I've often said that the my favorite team in the organization was the Clear Water Threshers who uh was nicknamed Pressureville um and you also said that, you know, they were the most important draft class,

you know, for the, like in this organization, I guess. Why do you believe that draft class was, was so important for kind of instilling the Phillies way? Yeah, I think, you know, number one, the Clearwater team was tremendous. Right. But I think I said that when I spoke to the guys when we drafted in the year prior. And I said that because it was the first draft class that myself,

Brian Barber, had been working together. And just to establish that standard and what we're going to be about as an organization. That's what we talked about, how important they were. When they came into off-season workout programs for six weeks, it's their job to help bring the next group along and be the leaders of the organization. And then just push it forward and get back to the championship organization that we are and I think just specifically the Clearwater team honestly

Jack I mean like I think that team would have won 100 games if I would have kept them together it was a special special group um you know just starting from like Justin Crawford and nobody even really talks about this guy a lot but Brian Rincon and just Orion Kirkering and like we had a bunch of guys that were just really good players. And they, the cool part about it was they played together as a team. They took on their manager's identity, Marty Malloy,

who's really tough, but he, you know, he loves to, you know, loves the guys to play hard and, and win. And I think they took after him and it was,

it was from second one. It was like, they were selfless. They're all about, you know, the team and getting better and trying to win as an organization. And it was really fun to watch. Yeah, and obviously you're looking to instill that in a new draft class.

I mean, do you feel confident that this is going to be something that you're just going to have and instill and get these guys to buy in from day one? Yeah, I think as an organization we feel very confident. I think, like, you know, we provide these guys with a lot of things and resources, but with that comes expectations. I think the players are –, we provide these guys with a lot of things and resources, but with that comes expectations. And I think the players are, it's, they're, they hear it loud and clear when they sign that it's going to be, the standard is going to be the way it is. And if they can't live to that, they just won't be in our organization. And I think, you know,

Brian Barber and his staff does such a great job of getting high character guys who love to play and work and want to get better. So I think it really fits that. Speaking of Brian Barber, this is a question I asked him when we had him on, and I think you mentioned Justin Crawford. I feel like the last few years we've seen a really, and look, you're always going to see, and you're one of them, right? You played, your father played in the game, but I feel like we've seen a influx of really high-end prodigy of players, kids like Vlad and Bichette out there and Crawford and the system.

I just feel like there's been a real – Matt Holliday has two of the – both his kids are top 10 prospects, whatever, number one, all that stuff. What is it about growing up with a father who played the game? Obviously there's the genetics part about that. I get that. But is there something other advanced? Like I always thought with like Steph Curry or whatever, you know, growing up around the game, being in those arenas, you're just like desensitized to it almost, right? You're like, it doesn't feel as big or as scary or whatever, maybe naturally. I don't know.

I always, I'm fascinated by this idea of kids who, whose parents played and then follow and can, can in some cases, you know, uh, uh, improve on it. Um, what do you think it is outside of just the genetics? I think they're exposed to high level training and coaching, right? I think a lot of kids at that young age don't get to work with, let's just take, you know, the holidays, Matt holiday, right. Or don't get exposed to like, you know, the routines that Matt knows and then instill those into his, into his boys. And, you know, I think, yeah,

you're exposed to a lot of things. You're being able to be around the yard. You're being able to talk to older players and just, yeah, get exposed to high level coaching at a young age. What's it been like, what's it been like working with our, our, our guy, Brian, I mean, you're both our guys, you know what I mean? But now you two have joined forces. What's it been like working with Brian Barber so far?

Yeah, Brian's one of my really close friends. I love Brian, and it's been tremendous. Obviously, we both had a vision when we came over and worked together that we needed to bridge the gap between PD and scouting. And we've done a lot of work to try and do that. We have guys that work on both sides, both the player development side and scouting. And we've done a lot of work to try and do that. We have guys that work on both sides, both the player development side and scouting to help bridge that.

And like, we've really, you know, worked together and it's like, you know, having an organization like this to be successful, you have to be on the same page. And I think the one thing that nobody really understands and what happens when things start to go bad is you get a scouting director and player development who are on the same side. So you draft the players and the player development complains about the players they get right. And then vice versa, right.

You draft good players and player development screwed up my players. So I think getting on the same page to understand like, Hey, what these players need to do to get better when you draft them, I think is really important and impactful to speeding up their development. Hey, fantasy football owners, the road to winning your fantasy football championship starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from Reception Perception. Join me and James Coe as we take a deep dive into the position

that's going to make or break your fantasy roster. Wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share, and all the metrics that matter, giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers. As you prep for your draft, let us give you the coverage you need follow and listen to perception perception on the free odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts and uh i was thinking you know it's i feel like the organization is really uh healthy right now which is it's a good spot to be in especially with you and and brian kind of leading the charge down there.

What's next? Like where do you kind of envision this department, you know, in the next five years and how this thing is going to continue to grow and continue to churn out talent? Yeah, I think when in the interview process and talking with Brian throughout, it's like I wanted to be the team that like, you know, I always say like build the bully, right? Like, you know, you get these players and you get all these guys into your system and you just, you look up and you're, you have multiple guys coming every single year for your organization. So I think, you know, as we continue to, you know, obviously Brian's hasn't had a ton of time yet. He was here in the COVID draft in 2020, only had five picks. And then he's really only had a couple of draft classes. And, you know,

obviously we've given up some picks to sign quality free agents. And I think, you know, as Brian continues to get more, you know, picks and get more guys into the system, we're going to continue to get high in talent and develop those guys into being championship players and, and be impactful players. I think the one thing you've seen about Brian is he's going to take the best player and he's going to take guys with big tools and big talent. And I love that.

Give me those guys in our system and we'll get them better. Yeah, Preston, we don't have to tell you. You know, you haven't been in Philly that long, but I'm sure you know the history of drafting and developing with the Philadelphia Phillies has always been the bugaboo. I mean, there's a reason we're the losingest franchise in the history of the sport. You know, we've really struggled with that. franchise in the history of the sport. You know, we've really struggled with that. And I know for me and Jack, this is by far the best we've ever felt about, about that, about that portion of the Phillies and the future of that and what you guys have done a couple of years here. So I know we speak for all Phillies fans when we say like, thank you, man, because this is something

that has really been a long road for us to feel good about this. So thank you. Now, after thanking you, I'm going to apologize because I'm about to let Jack just nerd out with you. So I'm very sorry in advance, Jack. Yeah. Well, listen, there's some players I would like to ask about. Let's go. All right. Aiden Miller.

Aiden Miller. Drafted him last year at Big Tools. I was so happy they drafted him. What can you tell us? What have you seen so far from Aiden Miller? Yeah, Aiden actually lives like 10 minutes down the road from me. So when we drafted him, it was really cool. I knew he would be at all of our camps in the offseason

and be around the complex 24-7. But Aiden, obviously, he's a big physical kid. He has huge power. You know, he's going to play in the middle of the field early on. I think he has a chance he stays at shortstop, but if not, obviously third base type body. But I think it's going to be a power bat. And it's tremendous makeup.

It's tremendous work ethic. The kid's special. And he has big tools. And I can't wait to, you know, keep working with him for years to come. Perfect answer. Jackson. Honestly, you know, we were shocked when he to come perfect answer jackson honestly you know we were shocked we he got to us you know i think it was ridiculous so was jack he couldn't it's a top 15 player in the draft if he doesn't break his handmate bone he's he's a locked top 15 player like some of the organizations need to grow up um all right abel and mcgary like you know kind

of up down um got a triple-A, you know, kind of seemed like he took a step back. What do you see from Abel and McGarry this year, and what are you kind of expecting going forward? Yeah, I think people honestly were a little hard on Mick. You know, I think he threw 100 – I think it was 113 innings this year. That's multiple years over 100-plus innings. You know, I think people forget that he was drafted in the COVID year, didn't pitch high school baseball. His first year in the Pro Bowl, he threw, I think, plus innings. You know, I think people forget that he's drafted in the COVID year,

didn't pitch high school baseball. His first year in the pro ball, he threw, I think, 40 innings and had a little bit of a shoulder mechanical flare up where he didn't get a pitch much. So last year, two years ago now, it would have been his first really full year. He threw 100 plus innings. This year, he followed that up, took the ball wire to wire. We saw the stuff actually get better. I think, you know, some of the command stuff that he dealt with, you know, was obviously some strength-related stuff that once he gets stronger, we think that'll clean up. And honestly, you know, pitching in Redding,

it's not the easiest part to pitch in, but I think we saw the stuff continue to tick up throughout the year, and we're really excited about what's to come for Mick. What about Griff? It was kind of on fire at the beginning of the year kind of cooled off a little bit what did you see from him yeah Griff obviously slowed out the gates with a little bit of an oblique so we were kind of like kind of trying to play catch up with him from the start we got him built up in Redding he showed some flashes

of the Griff McGarry that we all know um I think once we got the triple A he just the command kind of backed up on him right I think we've done think we're going to do some stuff this offseason. We're already doing it. And we did it last year when he was on the development list of remapping the arm a little bit. Some of the stuff, the way the arm works to help make him be more efficient and help him command the ball a little bit better. Because we know if he does that, he has elite stuff.

So that's going to play anywhere. So it's just getting him in the strike zone more. We think we've found some avenues to doing that. He's working with Brian Kaplan and Mark Loews, who are pitching people, Travis Herter, Cesar Ramos when he was in AAA. So we've had a really strong group working with him, and we're really excited about him

next year. Yeah, I mean, the stuff still pops. So obviously rude for Griff. Justin Crawford, drafted him last year. A lot of talk about hitting the ball into the ground, but he hit over 300. How confident are you guys, or how confident are you that you're going to be able to get him to lift the baseball, continue to do damage in the gaps? And, I mean, what do you think we have here in Justin Crawford?

Yeah, Justin Crawford, the first thing that comes to mind is impact, right? Because he's a freak athlete. He has a chance to be an elite defender, elite base runner. So just take that right off the, off the jump and you're excited. And I think just the, the, the bat, the ball skills that he has. And like, listen, I think like Justin weighed, weighed 175 pounds. When we, when he started the year, he's up to 185 now, but I think the impact's there.

It's not like a quality of con it's not like a lack of impact type thing. The exit velocities are already in the one tens as for a young kid. But like you mentioned, he hits a lot of balls in the ground. So it's more quality of contact issue. And I think people, you know, it's so visible now prospects that they, they want guys to be perfect the day they sign, right? So Justin Crawford, when he signs at 19, the player that he is now is not the player he's going to be in the big leagues at 22, 23, 24 years old, right? Like we're well aware of some of the things he does and, you know, that he gets a lot of balls on the ground. But I think for a young kid, I think we want to let him do it like naturally, right? We don't want to just get him in the system and like, hey, you got to

hit home runs. You got to hit the ball in the air right away because that could stun his development and set him back. So I think we're kind of letting him grow, but we're well aware that we need to make some stuff. It's more of a point of contact thing. And some of the way his swing works, we're adjusting that. Luke Merton, our director of hitting, has been working with him all offseason. He was down at high performance camp in Clearwater for the last six weeks. So he's been there working on it. And we're really happy with where Justin's at

and where he's going to be in the future. I think the guy you see now is not the guy you see in a couple years. So he's a really exciting player. Yeah, I mean, he seems like the classic guy that 24 all kinds of comes together and bang, you know, like a four-win player, just on defense and speed automatically. So it's exciting. Gabriel Recones Jr.

He's got some serious pop, when off in the Arizona Fall League. Future maybe corner outfielder of the Bucs? I mean, what do we see from Rincone? Yeah, he didn't get to play his first full year. He was dealing with a shoulder issue. And I think the one thing that was the most surprising thing was the defense and base run. This guy is an instinctual defender.

I think when we drafted him, it was more, well, he's a corner, maybe play first. But it's now pretty evident. He's going to be maybe play first, but it's now like pretty evident. Like he's going to be a good corner outfielder just by the instincts on the bases. I want to say he stole over 40 bases this year, like didn't get caught many. So like, I think there's instincts on the bases. He takes the challenges really well. I think, you know, we told him early on that, you know, in his scouting report,

we had him as a 30 runner. So he chose to take the full year to prove us wrong and steal some bases. But another guy that I think is top of the scale exit velocities, he's going to have big power. I think it's a quality of contact issue again that we're working on. I think as he learns to lift the ball more and get the ball in the air, he's going to hit a ton of home runs, and we're really confident in that. I think for his first full year, he went out and had a pretty good season.

Now, unfortunately, this guy tore his ACL, but I was so excited about Starlin Kaba. What can you tell me about him? He was kind of unknown, signed a pretty decent contract a couple years ago. What did you see year one getting him stateside? He didn't tear his ACL. It was left elbow surgery. Oh, way off.

Sorry, I thought it was the ACL. My bad, my bad. Yeah, all good. Yeah, but left arm, so nothing's going to hinder him long term. Just a little bit of a speed bump for him. He's in the States now. He's been rehabbing up until the dead period. Yeah, he's honestly, it's maybe the best defender I've ever seen for a young kid.

Wow. It's athletic. He's bouncy. He defender I've ever seen for a young kid. Wow. It's athletic. He's bouncy. He makes a ton of contact. He can run. Obviously, he's still 17 years old, but it's a special, special defender and player and athlete. So, yeah, we're really excited to get into the States next year. And honestly, our FCL team next year could be really fun to watch.

Yeah, I can't wait. I think he's got a chance to be a stud. Last quick hitter here. Who do you think performed better in the clubhouse, me or Seltzer? I mean, who looked like they belonged there? You know, this is a hard

one. I feel like I don't know the right answer. I got to go with Jack, though. Yeah, it's okay. I think Jack's the right answer. He was nerding out a little bit in there, but it was well-reserved. I'm glad – good to see him in there. Yeah, Jack – trust me, Jack needed that a lot more than I did. So I think that was the correct answer there.

I don't know if Jack would have recovered if we had gone the other way. Just popped so much champagne as a Bloomsburg Husky back in 2014. Yes, never lost in the playoffs, right? 2-0 in the playoffs, Preston. There we go. Know a thing or two about winning. If you're looking for someone to develop, there you go.

I still have college eligibility. Get you down to spring training a little bit. Oh my god. You don't have to tell us twice. I'll get on a plane right now and just wait until March. I'll start walking. I'll walk. I'll walk to Clearwater. Are you kidding me? Preston, last one for us.

And again, thank you so much for the time, Mike. It's a real thrill to have us on, as you can tell, Jack. Giddy. But last one, just a fun one on the way out. You mentioned Yogi Berra in the opening when I talked about being around the game. I mean, your dad, and I know Ricky Henderson a little before your time, but dad played with Ricky Henderson and Dave Winfield and obviously played for George Steinbrenner.

And a lot of stuff. Do you have any, like, fun memories or anyone who kind of sticks out as someone who, you know, you're like, wow, I can't believe I saw George Steinbrenner this time or that. Is there anything that kind of sticks out to you like that? I'm a Jeter guy, you know, so Derek Jeter's my guy always has been. So just the way. Jack, Jack, Jack likes to rip on Jeter.

And I get it. I get it. But, you know, Jeter, when you're growing up watching the things he did and it's like the way he treated people, honestly, with me was the coolest thing. And just like, yeah, I come to spring training as like a you know don mattingly's kid he doesn't have to treat me any kind of way and it was like you know he's giving me a glove he's giving me cleats and then like you know fast forward the one thing i always stuck with me i was struggling in the minor leagues my first full year and i was making a ton of errors playing shortstop and

obviously derrick had a history and made a lot of errors his first full year and i remember um sitting in my hotel room and and getting a call and it was, it was Derek who called me. It was my dad, I guess it updated him. Hey, tell him I'm making some errors. And he called and just told me like, Hey, just keep working and keep grinding. And just that advice always stuck with me. And just the, that he took the time to do that, right? Like the guy that's a superstar type player and treated me the way he did. It always stuck with me. And it was really, honestly, to this day, like this guy can do no wrong in my eyes. That's awesome, man.

Yeah, that's pretty cool, man. And look, other than Jack, everyone else talks glowingly about Derek Jeter. And it's not personal. Jack just calls him a slap hitter, which is outrageous. Well, I appreciate Derek Jeter. I appreciate Derek Jeter. I appreciate Derek Jeter. He's a great player.

Great player. But it's funny also that needles to me at this point. That's right. That's right. Well, again, Preston, seriously, I can't tell you how much we appreciate the time. It has been a real pleasure. Definitely want to have you back in the future. Maybe we make a Brian Preston interview happen at some point.

That would be a thrill, too. Thank you, man. I can't tell you how much of a thrill it was for Jack, for me, and for our audience. Thank you. Great to be on here. Obviously, it was a pleasure. Anytime we get to talk about the Phillies and our players, I'm happy to.

Sounds great, buddy. Thanks again. I'll see you in the clubhouse next year next year we'll get there look much more professional that's where you're there as as journalists and we're not rooting for either t so next year that's us very clearly as i'm wearing like a bryce harper simpson shirt in the clubhouse yep that's it yep love it all right