High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Better Spot for Ian Kennedy: Up 15-2 or in a Tie Game?

Episode Date: August 2, 2021

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz react to the Phillies losing two of three in Pittsburgh, the moves the team made at the trade deadline, and much more. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the high hopes podcast. It's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the Phillies on radio.com and sports radio, 94 W Y P. Is another addition of the I Ops Podcast. Jack, as I was doing that, yo, I was thinking about if they had not scored 15 runs yesterday, how angry the yo would have been.

And as I was doing it, I was like, you know what? This is even too much of a yo. Yeah. Because they lost two of three in Pittsburgh. And I apologize. i overdid the yo normally i feel pretty good about the level of my yo this was not a good performance by me i overdid it and it's not fair to the situation how you doing buddy yeah it seems like you kind of you know you want to be there but you can't get there i was excited to talk to you buddy yeah

that's really what it was because we get excited to talk to you buddy yeah that's really what it was because we get excited to do this podcast and then we started thinking about the current state of the baseball team it's not not as exciting i would say but whatever it is what it is we're here uh you were in pittsburgh i blame i would yes i was that's fair to blame me but i was actually going to say i'm going to put the most of the goodness of that. Yo, Tao, awesome the experience was at PNC Park, even despite the Phillies ruining it with a Pirates walk-off. Go ahead. Wow, so you're a big Pirates guy?

You're going to start a Pirates podcast? Are you moving to Pittsburgh? Yo, that park rocks. That park was so awesome. It has been, you know, obviously so many people go there and say, it's, it's so great. It's so great. And I obviously should have been there by now. It's super close and it just hadn't happened. And it's everything I hoped it would be. I mean, it's beautiful and it's in, it feels intimate. It feels smaller even than it is. And it's pretty

small to begin with and obviously the the skyline which you can see on tv too is is that much better in person it really is like a beautiful spot to watch a baseball game and uh it was awesome and obviously met some awesome listeners out there too um i was i know i was so jealous i was so jealous i don't want your meeting i know shout out to everyone i met by brett i met brett's daughter rosemary she was awesome i met rob who was great i met seth james a bunch of other people was uh it was really awesome jack yeah a really really cool experience it seems like they all bought you free beers which is uh nightmare it's a lot

it's a lot of beer to be consumed but you know you were at a bachelor party so i get it you know i'm surprised i remembered as many names as i did just there because i'm usually really good with names like if i meet someone i'm pretty good at remembering their name except when i'm drinking like then then my that skill seems to just completely evaporate. So I'm pretty proud of myself. I think that was a good job. If I forgot anyone's name I met, I'm so sorry. It was awesome meeting you. Yeah.

And James and I, uh, before the show, uh, we talked about how, if, when they play in Pittsburgh again, like we need to do a high hopes trip, trip out to Pittsburgh. So, um, we will work to make that happen next year. And yeah, like, honestly honestly i just want to hang out with more high hopes people like i just want to find ways to to kind of hang out with everyone so um because every time we do it's like oh these these are our people and they are great so um yeah it's it's awesome so uh i'm better than the team better than the team i was very jealous of you i was very jealous of you because yeah all right yeah what were you saying nothing i just say i'm jealous of you i know you

texted me like multiple times during the game how jealous you were so you definitely let me know and you kept asking like who'd you meet how many people did you meet i like you were so pumped about it you were definitely living vicariously through me for sure yes exactly while i was uh while i was working at the the brewery I was living vicariously through James. So, yeah, yeah, I get it, buddy. I've been there. I've been there. Well, it was really awesome. Like meeting everyone was the best part. But then the park being as cool as it was, we had great seats. And, you know, and when Bryce tied it, you know, felt like, OK, here we go.

Like but if I'm being honest with myself jack deep down i knew that the pirates were going to walk it off i really did yeah like it just yeah it just was gonna happen you saw alvarado warming up you're like that makes no sense uh but here we are again and then like and then gerardi's decisions with alvarado made no sense and granted if alec bone makes a better throw home they still could have gotten out of it. But like, you know, whatever. It was a very frustrating way to lose a baseball game, especially after, as usual,

they give you that glimmer of hope by tying it. And then, of course, they score 15 runs the next day with no home runs. And it's just like, where are all those hits the last two games? You got one hit by someone you never heard of on Friday, jack will crow did you know who will crow was before he took the hill and threw six one hit innings against the phillies on friday i will crow if i lie to you here we don't lie to those listeners i did not know who that guy was i actually did i like stumbled

upon a pirates game a little i don know, like a month ago, and I definitely had heard of him before. But to say I saw one hit ball coming would be a lie. Nothing really jumped out at me watching him. So, I mean, like, it's just it's so

they're so maddening. They're the most inconsistent, consistent team ever like they just find ways to be a 500 ball club and it's like like Friday night happens and like they have

they're supposed to be momentum coming off the trade deadline and they go out and that was maybe the most dead I had ever seen them like it was it was shocking how dead they were on Friday night. Like it was, how do you come out that dead when you did make some trades to, to,

to boost the team? I don't know. Like, ah, it was, it was maddening to lose two of three to that dog crap team. It's just, it's just disgusting.

And I'm already dreading this national series. I know. Well, that's the thing. We talk so much about the second half schedule and how it's like oh it's so easy it's like not for this team it's not not for this ball club nope nope nope oh man um all right let we'll get back to the pirate series let's let's jump chronologically and go back to what you just mentioned the trade deadline and

you know because you know we'll get back to the games but that probably the biggest effect a bigger effect on the rest of the season would happen Friday than what happened over the weekend. And obviously Kyle Gibson, you know, what you thought of his start, but let's start with just the trade itself. Obviously we'll get to someone being back Jack, but, uh, let's start with the big trade. Uh, I felt like, honestly, I was shocked how shocked how much um how many people were really upset that they trade spencer howard i would have thought at least you know would have with how much we've watched him now and and the just weak sauce we've seen from this year that at least there'd be more people on board but people were not happy with this trade jack yeah i think this might be the

this might be our first like real like disagreement this might be the, this might be our first like real, like disagreement on the, on the podcast. This might be a monumental moment. Um, because I was like, I was pissed. I mean, obviously Spencer Howard had lost a lot in favor for me.

Like he drove me crazy and I'm fully there. It's just, it feels like they went half in and they gave away a prospect to, uh, two months ago was our number one in the system. For a guy who was coming off a good half a season and a closer who was a journeyman, who was a minor league free agent, they could have just signed this offseason, whatever. That's notwithstanding.

And a prospect in Hans Kraus who has some stuff, but it's kind of fallen out of favor. Like, it's just, I just feel like they could have done better and if you're going to trade spencer howard then i wanted them to go more in than just the kyle gibson uh ian kennedy and i'm bringing back freddie who will get to in a second but like it just felt like a half in measure it felt like they just wanted to get spencer howard out of here um and i would have i would have preferred a bigger package for i would have preferred to put together a better package and go and get a better pitcher. Like we brought the John means one like last week,

I would have rather go after a guy like that, put more prospects in there to kind of get out from under it and, and, and bring in a better pitcher. Like Kyle Gibson's fine, but they traded Spencer Howard for a four. It's like a mat. It's like a massive sell low.

They've given Vince Velasquez six years to try to figure it out. They gave Spencer Howard two months. And it just... And the last thing that just didn't sit well with me was that they get the money back, and they get the $4 million back just to stay under the luxury tax, and it felt like one of

those moves where they had to give up a better prospect than Spencer Howard to stay under the luxury tax. So that frustrated me, um like i it's just it's fine like and i think there's two there's two things that are not mutually exclusive like i'm mad at trade spencer howard and this kind of deal but i also i think kyle gibson and ian kennedy will legitimately help this team like i'm i'm glad they're here i just i didn't like how much they gave up for them. Yeah. All right. I think you definitely

oversold how big a disagreement we're going to have on this, but I like, cause I actually agree with a lot of what you said. I mean like the, the, the 4 million bag, the, the luxury tax thing, like, like hated it, hated it just week week. We're not really going all in. We're not, you know, and I get that, but just the trade itself, I was fine with it. Like I agree. It's not an amazing trade, but you and I had different wants going into this deadline. And I would have liked if they got someone who was younger, more cause and control. Look, Kyle Gibson's 33 and this is his first like great season. He's gotten good actually in his thirties. He's been better than he was when he was younger,

a big time prospect guy who kind of couldn't figure it out and has been pretty good the last years but this year is obviously an anomaly when you look at his career stats so you're getting a guy whose breakout seasons at 33 is never you know an awesome deal but he's it's a really fair contract and you have him for next year i like the idea that they didn't just get a half a year out of somebody for Spencer Howard. So I do like that part of it. And also like for me, the bigger part is, and I agree they sold low on Spencer Howard. I'm not going to argue with that part too, but I think it is what it is. Like, I think they sold low on Spencer Howard because he is what he is. And yes, could it be wrong? And he gets in Texas's organization where they are very smart. John Daniels knows what he's doing and they have done a good job at a decent track record with guys.

You know, we've talked before about some of those guys, but you know, I think there's certainly a chance they could do it. But from what I've seen from Spencer Howard, and I know they jerked him around a bit here. I just, I have not been impressed in terms of a starting pitcher in major league baseball. Could he be a good reliever if he can learn to do dirty innings sure like i could see that but i just don't think he has the like you know i'm trying to think of like the right word like gumption toughness whatever to to be a real good starter in major league baseball and to power through stuff and and to you know fight and and i could be wrong like you said they didn't give him the longest biggest chance starter in Major League Baseball and to power through stuff and to, you know, fight. And I

could be wrong. Like you said, they didn't give him the longest, biggest chance compared to Vince. But I can't even like, again, not defending that, obviously. So, you know, we're not totally arguing. But I'm just, you know, what I've seen with Spencer Howard, I don't think he's that good. I don't think he's going to be a good starter. So I think Kyle Gibson and Ian Kennedy helped this team in a horrible division where for some reason you actually still have a chance to win the division, which does matter, and you did it without really giving up anything that, at least in my opinion, obviously if I'm really out on Spencer Howard,

hurts you in the long run. But what annoys me, James, is that they like, does this happen if they just leave him in AAA and let him just stay there for the year to build up his strength? Or is this a knee jerk reaction because they sent him down in the in the effort to stretch him out and then rush him right back up here when Eflin got hurt? Like, if you're going to send him down, and then rushed him right back up here when Eflin got hurt. If you're going to send him down, then just send him down and let him stay there. Why are you rushing? I just don't think they have to rush to trade Spencer Howard, especially for this kind of pitcher.

What could they have gotten for Spencer Howard in the offseason? They could have gotten a King's Ransom. He's a controllable pitcher that was a top 30 prospect at that point. And then in three months of a season, he's completely done and you're moving on like that fast. So like, I just think that they completely crushed his market. And it's just like,

if you're going to send them down and your goal is to stretch them out, then just let them stretch about. And if it hurts your major league team, so be it. But shouldn't their goal be to maximize Spencer Howard? It feels like they just gave him away for a 33 year old,old starter that's pretty good but not great and will eat innings. Like, awesome and whatever. You could have explored it this offseason,

and he probably has a little bit more value than what you have here. And again, it just feels like one of those moves where they gave up Spencer Howard because they wanted to stay under the luxury tax and they got the $4 million back. And they gave up a better prospect than they had to. So that's just, you know, whatever. Well, I think, yes, I think if they had gone over the luxury tax, they probably could have maybe gotten away with, you know, less than the deal. Maybe you don't have to give up Gatti. I don't know if you do without Howard. I don't think the deal happens, but look, I get it. And everything you said is fair. And I definitely don't think

the organization has handled him well, but if the organization believes and you know, they're the ones who have had him in their system. And again, this is a guy who was a reliever and converted to a starter and has never really pitched deep into games, even his entire career. You know, there's a, you know, a few six innings, a seven inning, maybe once or twice type of thing, but like has never been someone in the minor leagues who has been able to really pitch deep into games and last deep into games. And yes, I know he's a top prospect, but I mean, come on, how many top prospects don't end up being effective major league baseball players? I mean, the list of Phillies top prospects we could talk about is, you know, infinite. So, so, you know, like I get it, but at the same time, if they organizationally believe

that nothing that he's going to do forward is going to re-increase that value and you missed your window, like I agree with you, you know, now that he is traded, I wish they had traded him when he had way more value, like no doubt concur, but where they are, if they don't think he's going to increase his value at least markedly and the value of a going for the division now also to the point you made this whole time that's the only trade they made and that's the only signal dave dombrowski sent to his team to the guys in lack that locker room that he's on their side he's trying to win and all that like that value of it too that you keep talking about or had talked about into the

deadline and i know it's not totally but they also didn't do their part by winning enough games to he's trying to win and all that, like that value of a two that you keep talking about or had talked about into the deadline. And I know it's not totally, but they also didn't do their part by winning enough games to really put the pressure on. You know, I think Dombrowski, while it's not perfect, is really going for a division that you could potentially win. Also telling his clubhouse that even though you guys haven't run away or really put the pressure on, I'm still going to add to this team. And that ultimately we don't believe in Spencer Howard howard long term yeah and that's clear i mean they clearly don't uh

believe in him long term and and i i get it it's just you know if you're going to trade your again he was your number one prospect three months ago if you're going to trade him in a deal for a for a 33 year old guy with another year of control, that's fine. But I would have rather, two things. I would have rather put more in and gone and get a better pitcher. Or if you want to make that deal, that's fine. But don't let your other move just be Freddie Galvis. You know, if you're going to go in and give up that level of talent, then do more than just that trade.

Actually go in. Actually use some prospects and get some more players in here. Because it's not like there are Kyle Gibson, Ian Kennedy, and Freddie Galvis away from being a locked division winner. So, yeah, it's interesting. And I just wouldn't be surprised given Texas' track record. Lance Lynn went down there and turned into a great starter. Mike Miner went down there and turned into a good starter.

Cole Hamels, obviously, back in the day. Kyle Gibson, obviously, now. I wouldn't be surprised if they got more out of Spencer Howard than the Phillies did. Yeah. Look, it's certainly possible. I don't disagree with it. And I think it certainly could prove to be the wrong decision.

I think if you're out on Spencer Howard as a long-term starting pitcher, then I understand the move. And I agree with you in general. Certainly, look, they missed their window. And if they had traded him before, you could have gotten a lot more for him. And that's an organizational mistake they have to live with. But it's also a sunk cost at that point if they don't believe that he's going to be more valuable or increase his value in a substantial way moving forward. And again, look, when you see the other trades that happen in the market, I think that Dabrowski also realized that he didn't have the process.

Look, I will not defend them for not just taking on money. In all trades, add money wherever. Anywhere you can get a player who's going to help your team by essentially just taking on money and paying off a contract. Boom, do it. Like, I don't disagree with that philosophically, but the, the prospect hall, the, the fact that, that they asked for Mick Abel for Craig Kimbrell, like, and the fact that they got magical for Kimbrell. I mean, like it was a, the market seemed to be tough for a team in the Phillies position in terms of prospect value. So I think the way the market played out was also disadvantageous.

And look, the Mets, I mean, I'd rather have made a trade for Javi Baez than the trade the Phillies made just because Javi Baez is a better player and asset for the team. But it's not like the Mets went nuts at the deadline either. So I don't know. Again, it's not my favorite trade ever. I'm not saying it's a home run, but it makes them better. And I don't feel that bad about losing Spencer. What a deadline, though. I mean, talk about a way to save it. Maybe one of the craziest ever, right? I mean, think about all the names that were. I know. There was 10 All-Stars.

Oh, my God. Yeah, 10 All-Stars. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Scherzer and Turner. I mean, it's unbelievable, man. Unbelievable. I mean, Scherzer and Turner, that trade. I mean, when we did the pod last time,

we were talking about the Padres getting Scherzer. We're like, Preller, you asshole. And then, boom, like as soon as we're done recording, it's like, hey, the Dodgers are going to get Scherzer and Turner. Yeah, must be nice. Must be nice. Andrew Friedman, buddy. Andrew Friedman.

I know. Geez. Well, at least this year, maybe they can win a uh a legitimate title yeah not a mickey mouse title last year sham is is certainly yeah but i know you say that but you felt like the playoffs were pretty close to real right i mean like it turned out it was dodgers fun watching it but i don't like the baseball's a marathon a 60 game season is is a sham like it's just not a real season i said it the whole time but it's dodgers race i know the best teams got there i i don't think that you know i'm not saying

they weren't the best team i'm not saying they didn't deserve to win the 2020 world series the 2020 title i just look at the 2020 title as a lesser title than all the other titles that's it i felt like it was pretty, I felt it was more real than the bubble. I did love it. It was better than the bubble. Yeah. You know,

I liked it better than I liked the, the, the, the NBA finals in the, in the bubble or whatever. Yeah. Look, it was fun to watch.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm certainly not ribbing that. Um, all right. Uh, let's, let's get to the main event.

What happened? Let's get to the main event here, Jack's let's get to the main event what happened let's get to the main event here jack let's get to the main event you of all people who do you think i thought of first when i saw coming across my twitter the phillies have reacquired Freddie Galvis. Jack, is this a nightmare? Is this a waking nightmare? Is this in your peace with it? Where do you stand on Freddie being back? Freddie once said to be a better defensive shortstop than Andrelton Simmons, if you can believe it.

Yeah. The Freddie hype got out of control yes uh all i have to say is that it's very flyers of the phillies uh to make this kind of move but i like it i want oh no i wanted them to resign oh i want yo yo i, hold on. I know, I know. All the Freddie jokes. I know. All the Freddie. If we could do like a super cut of it, it would be hours of Freddie jokes.

Yes, and the jokes about Pete McKinnon committing to the bit of batting in the two hole for a entire season, which drove me, you know, crazy. Really? So explain to me, why do you like the move so i like freddie from the standpoint so i wanted them to trade for miguel rojas in a similar way because i think that freddie is also that kind of leader a guy that players gravitate towards like he's a he's a good dude he actually likes playing baseball he's has a lot of energy. I'm a sucker for a good story, James.

Franzen and Franski told a story yesterday on the air where they were talking to Freddie down the dugout and he's like, I got a chance to put on the Phillies cap again. I was like, pinch me. I was like, you know what, Freddie? I do really like

you. A guy who played here during the worst era of Phillies baseball in my life was like, you know what, Freddie? I do really like you. You got the feels. A guy who played here during the worst era of Phillies baseball in my life was like, you know what? I love this team. I want to be back. And for that, I give him major props. So I like it from a couple standpoints. One, it gives them legit defensive versatility.

He's better than Torres. And if Didi struggles, continues to struggle, although yesterday was a good start. He did hit the ball hard in three at-bats or whatever most of the day. If Didi continues to struggle, you can put Freddie there. If Segura gets banged up, you can put Freddie there.

Boehm, if you want to make a late-inning defensive replacement, you can put Freddie at short or put Freddie wherever and have someone play third base. Um, and in the late innings that he want to get really crazy. You can put, have an infield of,

um, yeah, Freddie and Torres. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get set. Yeah. I mean,

let's go right. Defense. Let's go. Well, I've always said defense and baseball wins championships and championships. And if you want to get really crazy, Kyle Gibson's a big time ground ball pitcher. That's, but if you want to get really crazy, Kyle Gibson's a big time ground ball pitcher. That's,

but if you want to get really crazy, I wonder if they give him a look in center field and see if he can do that. You know, given that 37 hasn't gotten a hit in two months. Um, but I can't stand that guy. Well, I just hate,

I hate his, the way he just plays baseball. lack of days to go the like bat flips on a pop out like i love bat flips i love them but like you gotta know you you did it i almost cursed i was like you gotta know you bleep in like rocked it like it's gotta be gone to bat flip like not any of this like bat flip up to the warning track no not okay well and then friday was just infuriating when oh when crow gets walked two guys in the inning um has bases loaded one out and he's just hacking first pitch it's like in the dirt it's like there it is there that's that's your guy that's the guy that's been defended for no reason um but yeah so i just like

it from the standpoint of a leadership of a guy who loves to be here loves playing the game uh defensive versatility can hit a homer um and overall it's just a is a is a good philly and i am glad freddie's back i just looked it up he has played one game in centerfield so oh let's hope he can pick it up. I was hoping to say, like, he's played 100 games in center field. Can you believe it? Wow. He hasn't.

No, he hasn't. No. So let's hope he – but Freddie's a natural. Again, when you're as great a shortstop as Freddie, you can pretty much do anything out there. Yeah, gold glover. Gold glover. Gold glove.

Gold glove. But I'm with you, dude like to move too i i i i obviously i think it's uh you have the potential to have a relatively light hitting bench with him and teres on the roster but i really do like those guys and i think that for this particular team like what you you talked about with with Freddie is also true to race like that to do to just looks really happy to be out there playing baseball and really psyched whenever he does something good. And like, you know, he's a great, you know, fundamentals type defensive, you know, whether he's playing short or third. And, you know, guys like that, this team, as we've talked about so much, lacks leadership, lacks winning attitude all the time, lacks to the point we've talked about many times, you know, energy, especially on the road, Friday night. love to go out there every day and who bring that energy every day and who are always just excited to play baseball, I do think can be infectious and I think it can really help. So I think that's a great point you made to bring that up. And, and obviously defensively just, you know, he's a, he's still a really good defensive player. You know, we joke, he's obviously not Andrews and

Simmons, obviously, but he is, he's a really good defensive shortstop and and again can play all around the diamond when i was at my peak of of the whole freddie annoying you know the over the over selling of freddie galvis as a philly um the thing that always like i i i didn't realize how awful it is watching baseball when your shortstop can't make a simple play. Because we went straight from Jimmy to Freddie Gallo. It's like my entire life, my entire life, shortstop has been like a vacuum. And they can make every play, they make every routine play look normal. And then when they left, it was like, this is actually awful.

So that was one thing I definitely undersold with freddie uh being here um is that he just makes the normal shortstop plays that i've grown accustomed to seeing my entire life um so i will take that back for sure and like there's just no downside to it like he's he loves being here he loves being a philly he plays good defense whatever it's it's it's perfectly fine he's he is i am i, I am glad Freddie's here. And looking back, I wish they'd signed him in the off season. Yeah, dude, totally. Um, I'm with you on it.

Um, all right. Uh, one other thing to talk about with the deadline, like kind of a corresponding move to the deadline. And we've definitely texted about this and we will not be arguing about this one. We are both on the same side of this one uh he's gonna be pitching like you're gonna when people are listening to this podcast he's going to be pitching if you listen right away and you'll have already seen him pitch if you don't but ranger to the rotation man thoughts just when he is comfortable in a spot and thriving in a spot and he's a two pitch pitcher and he's

has a like if you just if you just closed your eyes and look at the looked at the numbers and didn't see who was throwing or who it was and like the phillies traded for that guy you'd be freaking out you'd think world series and they said you know what we're gonna make him a starter and i know that i know that he's been a starter as he's been groomed as a starter and all that but like he's not a very good starter like i don't know what i don't know what they're expecting he's he does not he doesn't throw 94 as a starter he throws 91 as a starter and and he became a good two pitch pitcher with his fastball playing off his chair his change up playing off his fastball he He almost ditched the slider pretty much completely.

Well, the slider's back, and it's just... I mean, again, I understand the situation that they're in. They need innings. They need quality innings. You know, a starter is more valuable than a closer, and they trade for Ian Kennedy, even though they didn't use him on Saturday night. And thank God they gave him an inning up 15-2. Oh, yeah, buddy.

And they let him throw 25 pitches how phillies was that oh it's great was that oh i can't wait till the same situation tonight we can't go to ian kennedy um yeah whatever oh he was on a plane he got in late or whatever on saturday oh i'm done oh you're joking you're joking that's gerardi yeah yeah he just got traded his mental headspace isn't in the right spot. Even though he's warming up. Yes, even though he's warming up. I need to throw him in.

Even though he's a closer, I need to throw him in in a 13-run game to just get his feet wet with the Phillies. He hasn't been a Philly before. He's been on like six teams or eight teams, whatever it is. The 36-year-old that's been pitching for over a decade in Major League Baseball.

Pitching the freaking Yankees forever. Like, what are we doing here? Come on. This guy can handle it. Let's bring him in on Saturday. Just unbelievable. That was ridiculous. That was ridiculous.

Unbelievable. That was ridiculous. Yeah. All right. That's out of the system. All right. Back to Ranger. Back to Ranger.

They're in a tough situation because they do need guys that can give them quality innings. Ranger, like, they're in a tough situation because they do need guys that can give them quality innings, and Ranger, I guess, as a starter, is more valuable than if they put him in the rotating role, the kind of fireman guy, which is fine. It's just I really liked him as a bullpen guy. I liked him more as a bullpen guy. I liked him more as a guy that would step in

and wouldn't be afraid of a moment and get the team out of tough jams and limit damage. So I just liked him more in that role, and I didn't think he was a very good starter. And really the other thing that is just becoming more and more apparent is like Bailey Falter really screwed up a lot of their plans. Big time. Like Bailey Falter not being able to start for the last two weeks.

Like you could easily have inserted him in there. And I don't know how great he would have been. I mean, he did have a.74 ERA in AAA so far this year. But you could have easily put him in there, and then you wouldn't have to move Ranger around. And now he's got to go all the way back through the process to get back up here. And it's like, oh, jeez.

If only there was a way to avoid this. But, yeah, it's just these moves for the Phillies just haven't worked. And the frustrating part for me – wow, T.J. McConnell got $35 million. That's crazy. Whoa! That's crazy. Are you sure he – He re-signed.

He re-signed with the Pacers. He did not resign from the Pacers. There's your Nance joke. You can't use one later. Use your one that time. I was done with it. I was just, unless it happened, you know? Yeah.

But it just feels like these things just don't work out for the Phillies. I hope it works out because obviously I want the best for the Phillies, but I just don't like moving a guy that was doing so well in the bullpen that I trust in the bullpen because they don't have many of those guys either back into a starting rotation just to get three innings out of them. Yeah, I we've texted about it and I couldn't agree more. I felt the exact same way when I heard it.

Look, he's been so valuable in the bullpen for you. And now with Kennedy here, you have the opportunity to use him whenever the game is on the line, like in so many spots. And he has shown that he can come into any sort of inning. I mean, I feel like half the time he's coming to games this year, it's been like bases loaded, no outs, two on, no out, bases loaded, one out. Like, I feel like he always comes into these situations. And that's why we keep talking about like ice in his veins.

He's got ice in his veins because every time he comes in, he's got this like tough situation to deal with or a one run lead or whatever it is. And he just, he keeps crushing and he's been so, you know, lights out in that spot for you. And I totally get in a macro sense, like, yes, a starting pitcher is more valuable than a reliever. We get it. I know we all know, but at the same time, like what this specific reliever has been for you and what he offers you in that bullpen i think is something that you don't have otherwise and and maybe it could be bailey falter if he comes back and he could be that type of guy for them where you can come and give them a couple innings when they need it or can be in high leverage spots but he certainly hasn't proven

that he could do that so you know i i just i'm i'm so with you i get it starting pitchers are more valuable but he's like locked in in this role now he's got to stretch back out too well and also don't you want to put your players in position to succeed like he was he was succeeding in that role he has not succeeded as a starter and and it's just now all of a sudden he's got to jump back out to trying to pitch deeper into games he's got to get more in his arsenal you know put the slider back in there it's just just would have rather stuck with where he was and and like also what happens if falter comes back or or what happens if they do sign hamels and or like are you just gonna put ranger back in the rotation it just they're back in the bullpen. It's just a lot of moving parts that I don't think they necessarily had to do.

Yeah, I'm 100% with you. Look, I hope it works out, and I hope that maybe Ranger is just a different pitcher now, and he is able to, you know, there's more deception there, and whatever it is, and he's learned how to mix his speeds better, and whatever it is that can make him successful in the starting role too but you know look he hasn't had to go through the lineup second and third time through and all that kind of stuff that's going to be new for him this year too and obviously that's as we know a uh a hurdle for for a lot of starters and again look like every

reliever on some level is a failed starter all All of them, ever. A lot of them just fail at starting before they get to the majors, and a lot don't, too. So obviously, I just don't get it. I think Ranger Suarez is a reliever. That's what I think he is. And certainly what I know this season is he has been an elite reliever for the Philadelphia Phillies. So I'm with you.

It's a head-scratcher to me. I would have figured out another way to piece together. I would have, you know what, made it. I know the Tyler Anderson trade fell through. Find another deal like that. Find something where you can take a shot on someone who can eat innings for you and be, look, Ranger, we'll be lucky if Ranger's Tyler Anderson in this situation, right?

I mean, if he can come in and give you six innings, three runs, six innings, four runs, like, you know, whatever on a consistent basis, that, you know, you'd take that. And that's, I don't know, it just feels like shooting low for what was, you know, before a real strength that the role he was in. Well, maybe if the Phillies get lucky, they'll move him around so much between starting and relieving that they'll ship him off for a 33 year old with one year left

on his deal alright that was pretty good alright anything else from the weekend and obviously that we get to take back after but any other observations from the weekend that you wanted to mention well I did want to talk about Kyle Gibson's first start because I did

like it's so funny because I was sitting there I was literally sitting there and i was watching him and i was like that's what a major league starter looks like just like a a perfectly fine major league starter that won't kill you and should give you six and three runs or less night in night out like he kyle gibson was literally exactly what I expected, which I guess is a good thing, but also, I mean,

it's a great thing with this. It is. I mean, come on. We can't expect much more. We can't expect much more than that. I mean, look,

it is. I mean, he was an all star this season. You know, maybe you can expect some, some higher end starts here and there, a two, four,

six year on the season. But I know had been really struggling before, before he he came here uh you know like his last few starts but i i i'm with you like that's the that's how low the bar is here the bar is we can we we could step over the bar it is so low jack that's where it's at you know we we would trip over it. It's so low. So, you know, six innings, two runs. Yes, please, man. And he went six and two thirds. Jack, how about that? Yep.

His previous high was 95 on the year. And Joe said, guess what, pal? You're going 116 your first start. Whatever. Actually, I think his average. And like at that point, like an eight run game or a nine run game, whatever it was. It's like, bro, what are we doing here? I had to get Ian Kennedy some work.

So there was no reason to bring him back out for the seventh inning. None whatsoever. And there was certainly no reason to bring in Kennedy into that game. Zero. Especially because you're playing again tonight. Like, what are we doing? You know, what are we doing? You're not off until next Monday.

You got a week full of games here with the freaking Mets coming at the end of the week. So, like, I don't know. Just throw in Kennedy out there in a 15 to 2 game yeah it's annoying you're annoying joe um but kyle gibson i i like the stuff it obviously you know the phillies defense is gonna it's gonna definitely be worked in kyle gibson starts um like and and to their credit i mean dd looked really good yesterday uh probably dd's best game of the year both defensively and offensively and like dd has been infuriating this year but man if they can get him going it would make this whole thing look a lot easier so um it was good it was good and honestly like if i'm zach eflin i'm studying kyle gibson tape

because they have very similar arsenals. I mean, I like that. They're like the same pitcher. They're like the same pitcher, him and Eflin. So I hope he's watching this next year and a half. Maybe kind of help each other out a little bit maybe? Yeah, well, yeah, it'd be great. And Kyle Gibson is widely regarded as an unbelievable dude. That's what I was going to say.

I heard they were talking on the radio. Two I think he's a, that's what I was going to say. I heard, uh, they were talking about on the radio, uh, two time Clemente winner. I'm pretty sure. So yeah, yeah,

yeah. Apparently he's like a wonderful guy. Yeah. So that's good. I always want to add those kinds of guys to, uh, the clubhouse. But,

uh, and I just thinking more and more like, uh, the rotation next year is a chance to be really good. I mean, if you're, if you're first four of those guys, if Eflin can kind of bounce back here and whatnot,

finding a fifth starter to round out that rotation should not be that hard. Whether it's Ranger, like if Ranger steps up here and kind of fills the role, or Bailey Falter comes back, or, I mean, there's a lot of free agents this year. Well, yeah, that's where I was going to go, buddy. I was going to say, look, you didn't go over the tax now, so you're not doing it this year.

Go over the tax next year. That's what they have to do, the situation they're in, right? I mean, just go over the tax and sign some guys and bolster this. Well, it does help that McCutcheon's coming off the books and Bradley probably and whatnot. So we'll have some money freed up. Yes, spend more. Yeah.

So real quick on Ian Kennedy. I know he let up the home run, and I know it was 15-2, but I did like that he just came in and threw strikes. It was another like, wow, that's how this works. His fastball seems to still have some giddy up to it. He literally seems like a middleman's Kimbrel, like the way his fastball jumps, which it seems like he's kind of figured out in the last couple years.

So I definitely like him. I would have liked him on Saturday more than in a 15-2 game, but yes. I was, like, Bryce on Friday was infuriating. Like, it's so funny with looking at Bryce's season, because obviously the numbers are great, the counting stats are great, but he's just doing more dumb baseball things that are starting to become irritating. I'm glad that he's hitting because, honestly, they obviously paid him the money to hit and not field.

But I just thought Friday night was ridiculous. You have to be better than that. You are super talented, super athletic.. You have to be better than that. You are super talented, super athletic. You just have to be better than that. You're a major league right fielder. And then to get picked off on Sunday, it's like, have you played baseball before? Seriously, have you played baseball before? What are you trying to do there?

You don't have to be so aggressive. You'll get there with your natural speed. Like, whatever. It was, it was, it's just, it's, it's a, the Bryce conversation is just, it's fascinating because we are getting a throwback Bryce season offensively. I mean, 300, 400, 500 right now, but he's doing stuff not hitting that are hurting the team on like every night. Yeah. It's like a bizarro price season compared

to what we've seen from him before, where, you know, he's definitely hitting the best he has, but no power. I mean, not no power, excuse me, but like not the type of power you would expect with his, you know, the, the, where the slugging percentage at all those numbers you would expect a higher home run total. He's stealing a bunch of bases, but he's not playing good defense. And, and like you said, I feel like they're just games where it just feels like he's checked out. Like where you could tell that he's like, all right, he's checked out of this game. And also like, yes, the hitting in the face obviously changed the direction of his season, but also has had that baggage use and pulled himself out in some spots.

And the dehydration in game two right after the also break like i didn't think that was awesome like you know so i do think that it you're right it's a very weird bryce season in the sense that i think he's hitting the ball better than he ever has since he's been in philadelphia but he's also not doing all the stuff that we were giving him credit for at least to the same level all the stuff that we were giving him credit for, at least to the same level, all the stuff that we were giving him credit for the last couple of seasons. Yeah. And honestly, I think the,

I think the reason why it doesn't feel like we're like, Oh my God, Bryce kind of season is if you look at the late and close numbers on baseball reference, which is seventh inning on your either up one tie game or down one, or maybe like there's a runner on, or there's a, the tying runs on deck.

Everyone knows what late and close situations are, like he's batting 222 like he's batting 222 with one homer and like a 333 slugging percentage like it just it doesn't feel like he had a big hit saturday which is great but it feels like in the big moments he he hasn't totally stepped up um so it's just it's just a and again i'm not ripping bryce or whatever it's just it's just an interesting season from the standpoint of he's doing the things we sign him at the plate at the plate but everything else it feels like it's taking a step back like his defense in his first year here was it was it was great and every night it's like wow those people were so wrong about bryce's defense and i like this year it's, you know, Friday night, Thursday.

It just feels like once or maybe twice a week he's kind of making one of those plays where it's like, come on, man. You've been in Major League Baseball for too long to make that kind of mistake. So it's just an interesting Bryce year. The offense has been great, but, you know, part of being that guy is doing everything else, and I don't want to just be a one-dimensional player. Yeah. No, I 100% agree.

Well, I couldn't agree more. All right, anything in the take bag? I think Nola's legitimately back. I really do. I think this is the best I've felt about him. Yeah, it looks like his legs are back underneath him. Wow. I know.

They need it. I mean, they need it. The curveball has really good depth to it right now. Some ugly, ugly swings on Saturday. And maybe I'm doing this for my own sanity, but he's just too good to be how bad he was. I was honestly getting mad at Aaron Nola. I think of all the players that have frustrated me this year, Nola was the guy that was catching the brunt of it for me because it was just like, dude, you're so much better than this.

And you still throw a 94. It's not like the stuff was all of a sudden down. It just came down to literally having good command of one pitch and then everything else would work. So it seems like he did a bullpen, I think, a week ago. And I think he spent all of it just working on hitting the outside corner with his fastball. And two straight starts have been really good.

So I think he's way closer to being back than not. Yeah, look, I mean, in that case, I think I saw you tweet this, or maybe it was someone else. I'm sure multiple people did. But the best trade deadline addition the Phillies could make is a is a is arinola like you know arinola being arinola the arinola we expected to get like you're not going to find a better picture on the market compared to what nola has given them already through the first half of the season so i mean that's huge if you can you know have some consistency and bring

it every fifth day i mean it, it's massive for this team. Massive. Yeah. Andrew McCutcheon being hurt. Thanks. He was playing unbelievable. You hope it doesn't linger. You hope he can kind of bounce back.

But he's out for the next 10 days, and I'm not really sure what they're going to do. I guess it's going to be a lot of Jankowski in center, Adubo in left, or however they want to do it. But, you know, kutch was their best second best maybe third best hitter i would say for the last month and a half and losing him is is is bad yeah that that's really bad especially for an offense that that you know has been better but certainly has been inconsistent and you know reese h Hoskins still banged up to the groin thing.

We didn't see him at all this weekend in, in Pittsburgh. So that's another guy who they're already missing. So yeah, you know, not ideal. And I was at the game on Saturday with McCutcheon and that was, it was awesome to see McCutcheon get the,

the, you know, awesome reception in Pittsburgh. And that was a really cool thing and well-deserved. He left the game. When you're at the game, you don't notice those things because you're not watching the broadcast. You don't really know what's going on, but you realize that he's been replaced. You're like, what's going on here? It's like the sixth inning or whatever. That's a bummer. They need him back quick. As quick as he can at the end

of that, you know, 10 days. That's it. And he's been incredibly important. Right. So hopefully he can kind of just come back and everything's, you know, be back to the clutch that we had seen. It's not on the same knee that he tore, right? I think it's the other knee.

I believe it's the other knee. Yeah, I think it's the other knee, which is, you know, it sucks to lose him, but at least it's not that knee uh i believe it's the other knee yeah it's the other knee which is you know that's it it sucks to lose them but at least it's not that knee yep um really hate to see the mets not being able to sign kumar rocker uh truly truly hate to see that uh so that was the one thing i had at the end so that i was it was gonna be my final thought but like it's amazing like the met and i hate this system and you know we could talk about that another time but like, it's amazing. Like the Mets and I hate this system and may, you know, we could talk about that another time, but like the idea, and I understand why, you know, he could just, you know, not sign. And then, you know, this, this player has to wait around a year, but the Mets get a comp pick. I don't know how that's completely fair from a, you know,

one versus the other perspective, but it's great to see him not go to the mats. I'll tell you that much. Yeah, it is. And I don't even think they make it. They made him an offer. So why would you draft him? It's just embarrassing,

honestly. And then, cause you, especially cause you look like a fool. Like why not just take someone under slot who you're going to sign, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

It's crazy. Yeah. But look, that's the best argument you can make for the phillies winning the division this year is the mets yes they are still the mets man honestly i wouldn't be shocked if the the banged up braves who are hanging in it ended up just pulling ahead at the end just because they're not the phill and the Mets. Neither would I. Neither would I. That crap team's going to win the division. Whatever.

Some signs that Boehm's been hitting better, I would say, for about a month and a half now. It's weird because the average is higher, but he's still not hitting the ball at ballpark, still not driving it. But 26th in all of baseball in hard hit percentage,

which means he is still squaring the ball up. You look at the players around him on that list, they're all really good hitters, and I just think that he's going to figure it out. I think he's going to figure it out. I think he's going to figure out how to lift. He definitely can't stay at third base, but I think the bat's going to come. I think he's going to be fine. It's like his first full season in the big leagues

The fact that he's still hitting the ball really hard Squaring it up consistently Tells me a lot about his future Yeah He's certainly looked better Obviously the numbers have been there If you look at his numbers since June 1st They've been significantly better than prior

So he's been good He's just, like you said, not hitting the ball out of the park and not really lifting the ball, but, but he's making contact, hard contact. He's getting on base a lot more than he was before. So yeah, he's just a horrendous, horrendous third base, just like a, not, not a good third baseman, but I'm happy they didn't trade him. I said on the pod going in, I didn't want them to trade him. I'm very happy they didn't trade him. I, you the pod going in i didn't want them to trade him i'm very happy they didn't trade him i i you know that that's where i'm at yeah so it's good to see it's good to see uh and my final well i know uh one quick thing jaylen ortiz and redding is going to

be a show he went three for four in his second game uh with a dinger i do you feel bad that you traded him away in your perfect trade deadline. Yeah, looking back, I might have jumped the gun there. A little rash. Yeah. Listen, I'm not proud of it. I'm not proud of trading Jalen Ortiz. You know who didn't trade Jalen Ortiz? You.

But you also had no prospects on any of your deals. So we have no idea who you would have traded. Yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty damn good comeback. I don't really have any response carry on exactly right um but yeah actually like watch the watch all of the bats last night in full and just looks way more confident i he he's he is one of the five most important people in the organization to me and i need him to uh continue doing what he's doing because i got a left field spot open

and starting next year and i might need to get him up there. Oh, buddy. All right, what's the last thing? The last thing is I have a bit of a personal dilemma, James. Oh. Yeah, yeah, because I'm stuck between my Phillies fandom for this one player and my marriage slash family. So here is the scenario. Oh, man.

This Sunday is Roy Halladay retirement day with a retiring Roy's jersey. And Doc was my guy. Doc was a pitcher that wasn't that good, that was growing up during that time. I wore 34 because of Doc. In my sophomore year of college i went the charlie morton route and started doing the doc to try to save my career didn't work

still here um but i did try to try to try to emulate doc from that sense um didn't work out the same way and like doc's my guy. And losing him hurt a lot. And I just want to be there really bad. But on the other hand, is that Jill's sister, who lives in Iowa. Jill's sister, husband, my brother-in-law, the whole family, right? There are three kids. They come in once a year. And their first day here is Augustust 8th which is sunday and i'm really trying to decide

do i be the good husband versus what i really want to do which is go see reality you know retirement day all right uh how long are they here for a week but you got a factory and i get home at like 7.30 every night, and the kids and everyone's already in bed. Right, right, right, right, right. So essentially you have like three days to hang with them, like Saturday and Sunday, Sunday, Saturday, Sunday, essentially. Yeah, exactly.

So you would be giving them one of those three days. Now I would probably be able to get there by 6, a three-hour game done by 4, back at the house by six for dinner but at that point it's already pretty late like it's a it's it's a big dilemma yeah yeah oh man all right so i mean honestly the the number one thing that you have to decide in you know above all else is will jill be mad at me because if jill's gonna be be mad at you, it's just not worth it. Like it is a game as fun as it would be all that. Like you say,

you know what? I went to the hall of fame to see him inducted that weekend. I did all this cool stuff. I love doc, you know, it's okay. I can miss it. But if,

if Jill really is like, you know what? Oh, my family wants to see you and they only come in once a year. But I know this is important to you. And if you really want to go, you can go. Kind of thing. You know, without so many words. Then I think you go. I think it's okay.

I honestly think it comes down to Jill. I think that's what matters. So what I'm thinking about doing and what I'm pretty'm pretty sure i'm gonna do is i'm gonna i mean let's be honest i'm sure jill's family will be very happy not to have to see you no but here's right but here's where i disagree with you here's i'm kidding i'm kidding no it's a it's a it's a good jab but here's where i disagree with you there is no more pressure fill a position in the entire family like get grandma and grandpa out of here that's not that much pressure just be nice i have the pressure of being funkle and like when when the kids are in town funkle has to take them

off the parents end so they can go have their fun you know i gotta be the one that entertains them so i i would disagree okay so could you give them like the whole next weekend like just give them all day saturday all day sunday say i got you here's what i'm thinking this but this would really hurt my phillies fandom slash heart is i go for retirement i go for the first like three innings oh man would really hurt. I don't like leaving games. I think you can. I think you can go for a few innings and just make the main point of going being to see the retirement. You would be going for doc. That was the whole reason. It's not just, you know, any Phillies game. Like, look, if you, you run the risk of, if you know, it's a epic walk-off win or whatever, being annoyed with yourself for doing it

but at least you were there for the doc part i think that's okay if you want if that's acceptable and that's a compromise that can be made to make everyone happy i would do that i think i'm probably gonna do that uh but you know we'll we'll see we'll see but it's it's something that like ever so every time they bring it up, you know, they're like, oh, well, Lauren Spencer coming in the August 8th. I'm just thinking in my head, like, how much can I get away with going to Doc Day? So that's why we're here. That's why I had to bring it up on this podcast and talk to you.

Yeah, tweet at Jack. Let him know what he should do. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to go for a couple innings and then leave. I think it's okay. Yeah. I think it's okay. Yeah. I think it's okay. But if people want to rip you for doing it, I also am okay with that. Yeah, you're always down for me to be ripped.

Yeah, whatever works, however it plays out. Yep. That's all I've got today, James. Three of four, Jack. That's what I have. Not happening. Three of four. Not happening.

They have to win three of four. God, they're so frustrating. Jack, not happening. How many times I'd tell you they are splitting this series at worst at best. He's friends himself.

We'll see you later.