High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - BONUS: What the Phillies Can Teach the Yankees | BXB

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

In the first November episode of BXB, Sweeny and Keith talk about the Phillies' October success, and how their season would have been viewed by Yankee fans in the early going if the roles were reversed. Plus, Bryce Harper's unreal postseason brings up memories of potential Yankee regret. Finally, plenty of Aaron Judge free agency talk. Subscribe to BXB! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's say I'm captaining my soccer team and we're up by a goal against, I don't know, the Burlington Bulldogs. Do we relax? No way. Time to create an extra edition of BXB, Bronx Baseball, the Yankees podcast from Odyssey and WFAN, along with Keith McPherson. I'm Sweeney Murdy. Keith, it feels like it's been like, I don't know, like a month since the Yankees last played. I don't think it's been that long. It was last month. But we're talking the World Series here. The Phillies lead the Astros two games to one. And it gets everybody's mind racing. Man, what, you know, what are the Phillies doing that the Yankees couldn't?

And I'm watching the game three on Tuesday night, and they're not doing much different than what the Yankees are supposed to do. They were smashing the ball out of the ballpark against Lance McCullers, and they're just finding ways to win right now. Yeah. Doesn't feel like it's been that long for me. The wound is still fresh. There's still plenty of people talking about where the Yankees came up short

and what they need to do. And when you look at the Phillies, who I've dubbed Yankee South, and way before I knew they were getting to the World Series, just started calling them that because they've taken a few pages out of the Yankees' book, right? One man's trash is another man's treasure. They have picked up some scraps from Yankee land and put it all together down there in Birdland in Philadelphia.

Did you notice who was pitching last night? It was Nick Nelson, right? Nick Nelson got rocked by the Phillies in the 2020 summer games with no fans in attendance. I remember him getting, I think JT Real Muto lace went off of him. And yeah, they're like, we'll take that guy. He's one of the zeros in a World Series game. Yeah, now he's pitching to JT Real Muto. And, you know, we saw D-Rob Friday night.

David Robertson, Yankee fans are very familiar with. He goes and gets the job done for them in the 10th inning. Rob Thompson, there's a lot of talk about him. Derek Jeter sang his praises on the pregame show last night. So, yeah, I feel like there are a lot of things that Yankees fans are looking at the Phillies, even their payroll, all this talk around Bryce Harper and the Yankees passing up on him when they had the chance. I think Yankees fans are happy that the Astros are being dominated, and I think they're also happy that there's a little bit of Yankees influence in the team that's dominating them.

All right, let's dive into this a little bit because I'm going to get into Harper a little bit because I think it's worth revisiting, but you make a really good point here about you know the phillies payroll okay think about this the phillies payroll this year is 255 million compared to 264 for the yankees it's really not that much difference you're talking about you know less than 10 million dollars okay um so they're very similar in payroll but keith Keith, if I told, like, really, I kept thinking about this. All it comes down to is winning the games. That's all you want the team to do. Because if I gave you the Phillies right now as constructed and played out the season with that lineup and that rotation and that bullpen and that defense, and I told you this is the Yankees. There you go. You would lose your mind, every one of you, Keith.

You would lose your mind that this is the team the Yankees are throwing out there, that this is the type of defense they're playing, this is the rotation they had, this is how many games they won. Bryce Harper is missing two months on the injured list with all of his salary. You guys, all the strikeouts. Kyle Schwarber, 40 bombs, 200 strikeouts he's joey gallo right he's the good version of joey gallo the yankees are the bad version of joey gallo all the things you hate about the yankees you would hate just as much about the phillies all

season long i guarantee it yeah and their fans did hate it their fans booed them all year their fans demanded that the manager be fired their fans were not feeling them and he was but only because he was seven games under 500 there's something special going on in philadelphia they have a special mojo and energy it's a special year i think it's a great year for them and baseball with their story and all the different things that you mentioned and uh we can try and parallel you know the yankees and yankee south and uh you know just a ride down 95 south to get to just got hot keith that's the big that's the only difference that is literally it they got hot at the right time and they have a bunch of players on that roster that are good players that are believing in themselves led by bryce harper led by some of their new acquisitions, but really led by Rob Thompson, a manager who has seen every part of this game,

who has been a bench coach, who has been in every different job you could have in coaching baseball. He's experienced. Derek Jeter said he's one, two, three, four, five steps ahead of you. And I don't know. I look at the Phillies like it's their time. No coincidence. It's another NL East team. No coincidence that home runs are winning the games. Like they're hitting the ball out of the ballpark. They're playing small ball.

There's no National League. Bunt them over. Home run derby. Home runs. Both teams. The Astros got there because they had home runs. The Phillies are beating them because they're hitting home runs. Yeah, but it's there because they had home runs right the fullers are beating them because they're hitting home runs yeah but it's different for the yankees right you know

because it's just because they didn't do it i mean look at the astros right now their hottest hitters are their best hitters are giving you zeros now two may have the one game otherwise this post season is a is almost exactly a zero jordan alvarez i mean if jordan alvarez was playing for the yankees and was doing this throughout the whole season, you'd be ripping your hair out trying to figure out, you know, who this guy, why, why is the guy choking this and that? You know, MVP, he was getting MVP chance this year. That was their guy. Right. And he's come up small. Altuve's come up small, but it's October. Anybody can come up big. Anybody can shine.

And it's Philadelphia's time. I'm not mad at it. I look at it as there's so many little jabs at the Yankees, right? The last time the Yankees were in the World Series was 2009. They beat the Phillies, but the Phillies have figured out how to get back to the top of the mountain before the Yankees. Okay, but let's remember, though, that blueprint included 10 straight below 500 finish, not making the playoffs finishes.

Oh, yeah. That's not a blueprint for success. Completely different than the Yankees winning seasons and winning records. But I don't know, whatever they did, whatever their owner did, they figured it out. We could be jealous of them, but I just look at them as, hey, they got it going on right now. They've got a special mojo, and I hope they get it done. They're two wins away. They've got a lot of mojo.

That's really the big thing here. Teams get hot. And we saw it. Listen, the Nationals had that atrocious start in 19, got hot. The Braves were just kind of average last year, got hot. This is a big thing in the postseason. That's why teams like the Dodgers get knocked out. Teams like the Mets and the Braves get knocked out

because you run into teams like this. But when you mention Rob Thompson, Rob Thompson is one of the smartest and most generous baseball guys that I've ever known. I learned so much getting the chance to talk to him on a day-in, day-out basis when he was on the Yankees coaching staff. So many times, you know, you could pull him aside and just ask him about different situations in a game and different things that happened. And he's very good at communicating this stuff to a guy like me, which means he tells you he's very good at communicating it to players, to other coaches, to anybody else, to different levels of players and from different backgrounds and getting them to buy and understand. But again, I'll bring this

back to you, Keith. If you were watching the team win only 87 games, struggle to the finish in September, barely clinging to the sixth playoff spot, which wasn't even a thing a year ago, and you're watching his press conferences in not a very excited tone giving kind of dry bland answers you'd be pulling your hair out this is not the guy you would have wanted managing your team thinking that you could get to the world series with him we're seeing everything through yankees glasses uh and and you you try to compare it to the yankees i don't know i think these phillies fans uh like you said man you know their team got in because there was an extra wild card. They were on the cusp.

The Brewers were right there. There's a lot of talk about Bryce Harper being the DH and the fact that if they don't have the universal DH, Bryce Harper isn't a factor there because he can't run. And, man, I don't know. i'm happy for them i i'm trying to get the yankees like out of my mind it's a different culture it's a different vibe it's a different system and uh you know they elected to go with aaron boone a manager with no experience and we're looking at rob thompson a guy that was in the same round of interviews with a ton of

experience and uh that experience is playing right now a lot of experience coaching not managing but coaching for sure and he knew all the players um it was just a different listen and i don't know if there was a right or wrong answer there um you know aaron boone has had a lot of regular season success it hasn't translated into post season success um you know we want you know this could have broken down at any point along the way with rob thompson the st louis series whatever his team scored six runs in the eighth inning success. This could have broken down at any point along the way with Rob Thompson, the St. Louis series, whatever. His team scored six runs in the eighth inning against St. Louis, and all of a sudden, bam, this whole thing is right in front of him like that. Big rallies

against the Braves, the Padres, could have broken down any step, could have turned for the Yankees at any step. It didn't for them. I just think, you know, there's a lot to like about Rob Thompson. I don't know. Listen, it's not like, you know, it's not like somebody else jumped on him the second the Yankees said, oh, you don't want him, we'll take him. He still sat for five years and never got a snip at a managing job. And the only reason he's a manager now is because they fired Joe Girardi in the middle of the season, seven games under 500, and it elevated the bench coach. Now they rewarded him with a new two-year contract on top of that. Fantastic. And as I said, I probably count on one hand the number of people I respect and have had as much learning experience from as much as I have with Rob Thompson in over 20 years covering baseball. It doesn't mean, though, that you're looking at this saying,

how did the Yankees let him get away? It's 29 other teams. Nobody hired him, Keith. Let's remember that this isn't some great mistake that everybody else saw that the Yankees didn't. It just so happens that he is right now riding the hottest of hot waves. Yeah, I don't even look at it as, like, how did the Yankees not hire him? How did they miss this guy?

I look at it as another jab to the Yankees not hire him how'd they miss this guy i look at it as another jab to the yankees like hey that was one of your guys he was in your organization from 2008 to 2017 look what he's doing um some of those other players that you passed on some of those players that you had they've gone over there and they're figuring it out and it's different over there and good for ph. That city's going to be on fire. They got another game tonight. I don't know. I just think everything is going their way. I hope that series doesn't go back to Houston. I even like that there's, you know, little things like Lance McCullers

tipping his pitches and then the videos coming out of Frambois Valdez using sticky stuff. And it is an interesting World Series all the way around. There's so many storylines and so many things that people are keyed in on right now. I love that. I don't know if you saw it. Right before the first pitch in Game 3, Tom Verducci is pointing out the complications with Pitchcom that the Astros were dealing with because of how loud Citizens Bank ballpark was going to be. And that the people using Pitchcom have had to turn the volume up as high as they can because they haven't been in that

environment before. I started laughing because the only reason Pitchcom exists is because of the Astros. They're now having to deal with this, with having to work this in a loud environment because they're the ones who messed it up for everybody perfect like it's perfect how these things come around and uh you know like you said the technology is there after the whole sign stealing thing and uh yeah it's it's not perfect it's not a perfect science yet and um props to the phillies fans i i saw a sign that cracked me up last night. It said pumpkin eaters on it. And it had the Astros colors. The Phillies fans have had creative ways of trolling the Astros. I hope that Yankees fans can be inspired by that instead of just F. Altuve and Cheater. These Phillies fans have had creative ways to get at uh mattress mac um there's a video

going viral of uh lance mccullers warming up and the things that they were saying to him um the signs that they're they've made uh philadelphia's doing it you know they they've got a great fan base and they've got a great team and um i'm rooting for him i was rooting for him the whole way i thought it might have been phil's seven, but now they're saying Phils in five. Don't let it go six and seven in Houston. And, hey, they've got Nola on the mound. These guys are hitting. Listen, I'm rooting for him too.

I'm rooting for him because, well, first of all, you know, longstanding relationships with Rob Thompson and Kevin Long and David Robertson from all their time in New York. Definitely rooting for those guys. Plus, you know, I don't know if you know this about me, but born and raised in Pennsylvania, about two hours west of Philadelphia, I was 10 years old when the Phillies won the World Series in 1980. Oh, wow.

This is wheelhouse for me, okay? Mike Schmidt, Steve Carlton, Greg Luzinski, Bob Boone, Larry Boa, David Pride, Gary Maddox. Those Phillies are my phillies okay that's the team that i grew up loving and falling in love with the game so the the ones after that like didn't really do much for me i had no connection to the 2008 team yeah ryan howard and yeah i mean jimmy rollins they weren't my guys, right? But this team, I have an attachment just to the guys that I know and have had personal relationships with.

So you're like, okay, I would love success for those guys if they can get it. And the fact that they're wearing those uniforms, it kind of reminds me of my childhood a little bit. That's a little extra thing right there. Yeah, they're supposed to be bringing back the powder blue uniforms since these games got pushed. And they have an opportunity to bring those in which are super cool there was a thing about how the astros and the phillies have two of the best throwback uniforms in baseball maybe they can get the astros to wear their throwbacks when the

phillies wear their throwbacks and um you know i knew you were a pennsylvania guy and a penn state guy i didn't know that you know you, you rooted for the Phillies growing up. And then that was your, you know, team. Like you got to experience a World Series down there that young. I'm happy for a lot of people that I know in South Jersey that root for the Phillies, even other people that I've worked with, like LG Red, Lauren Gardner from MLB Network. She was assigned the Phillies for the postseason.

So she's been with them as they're popping champagne every way. She's covering the Phillies. Hannah Kaiser. Hannah Kaiser grew up in the Philadelphia area rooting for the Phillies, and she's been there for Yahoo covering this whole run. And it just seems like a lot of fun. It seems like it's good for baseball. And the Astros losing again is great for baseball.

So I'm all in on the phillies no jealousy even though i have been quoted saying i hate philadelphia teams and sports and their fans i do when i'm when we're facing them but like the yankees are eliminated i want to see them finish the job i want to see them knock off houston and uh you know they're doing it in impressive fashion and they're close so here we go you guys are joining us on our WFAN Twitch channel. Thanks for joining us here. And if you are listening on the pod, it is BXB, available everywhere you hear podcasts.

We're from Odyssey and WFAN. And make sure you subscribe, download, review, all the fun stuff. It's free to get, obviously, and follow along. And get us all throughout this offseason because, you know, Yankees baseball makes news and there is baseball news. A lot to follow here as we go in here. Want to get in on the best savings hack ever? Only Kudo saves you up to 40% on a sweet phone plan, reliable home internet, and all the streaming you could ever need with Netflix, Disney Plus, and Amazon Prime. That's right. When you bundle with the Happy Stack, you can spend up to 40% less a month,

every month, all year long, as long as you're with Kudo. Dare I say saving this much money has never been this easy? Stack more, spend less, like way less. The Happy Stack, only at Kudo. Now with internet. We talked about Bryce Harper. And before we get into Aaron Judge, I want to get back to Bryce Harper for a minute because I think it's kind of interesting here. And I want to hear your perspective on this because obviously here's a guy that I think we followed all along in his career and said, you know, he's going to be a Yankee one day. As soon as he gets to free agency, he's going to be a Yankee. Didn't happen that way. The Phillies pounced on him, 13-year deal. The Yankees didn't make a move for him after this is after the 2018 season uh and now the phillies are seeing the benefits of this he's won two mvps in his career already

he is a monster player this postseason keith i mean he's he's moving toward the hall of fame okay bryce harper is is probably got a foot and a half inside the door at the Hall of Fame at this point. He has to finish out the rest of this career and see how many more awards and rings he can win here. A ring here would be nice, obviously, but he's putting his feet into the Hall of Fame. And the player the Yankees got instead, Giancarlo St Stanton at this point probably isn't. OK, I mean, really good career, really good player. But Hall of Famer, I'd say probably a little bit short right now. I don't know what's going to follow after this, but I know you've talked about this. I know there's a lot of Yankee fans who are still talking about it.

Bryce Harper is a Philly, not a Yankee. And when you're watching him doing what he's doing right now, what are you thinking? I love Bryce Harper. I love his story. I've been calling him the LeBron James of baseball. I'm not the only one. You know, I'm 34. He's 30. And I remember him being in Sports Illustrated at 16. There was something that came up about Bryce Harper at 13, having unrealistic hopes and dreams in baseball. at 13 having unrealistic hopes and dreams in baseball and he's achieved them in this digital age he's someone that we've seen have all the hype and come through it we saw him get into Major League Baseball early he became a star in DC with the Nationals but they moved on from him and they won the World Series the year after he left.

And he goes to Philadelphia. He changes his number to number three for Allen Iverson, fully embracing the city. And $330 million, their owner says he didn't pay him enough, worth every penny. After he won the pennant, he said that, mind you. Right, he said that before they even have a World Series win. He's like, it was worth it just to get back to the World Series. He didn't say that last year. He didn't say that after he finished under 500 two straight years. But the guy is worth every penny.

He's an icon. He's as good as any baseball player you've seen as far as his swing, his fielding, his brand, the person that he is, his story, his dad's story. We were hearing about this kid hitting 500-foot bombs in high school. And for him to come all the way through, be an MVP, be an all-star, get the big contract, and now look like he's on his way to getting that ring, it's full circle. And, you know, as a Yankee fan, yeah yeah we heard about his dad being a mickey mantel fan a huge mickey mantel fan and bringing his kid up as a yankee fan and bryce harper said

he was a yankees fan he wanted to talk to the yankees they didn't even talk to him yeah because they had six outfielders and playing him at first base was unrealistic and uh you look now at where he is and uh he's got a long time to go still he can add to this and like you just said he's looking like a hall of famer he's got epic moments his uh home run derby that he he won and walked off and like i said him leaving the nationals them winning the world series but look he's about to get a world series potentially of his own with philadelphia he'll be a legend there uh i'm happy for bryce harper i'm happy that i've watched his whole career um i've known of him uh since he was a teenager and and the prophecy has been fulfilled all right so let me take you back

and get your thoughts as a yankee fan on this because you know it's pretty easy to say okay wow the yankees didn't even chase him in free agency. Boy, did they whiff on this. Okay, but let's go back and remember all the context of it and think about it this way, okay? The Yankees had just gone to Game 7 of the ALCS in 2017. They were a little bit ahead of schedule. Remember, they blitzed through September. They had a great September, held the wild-card spot. They won the wild-card game.

They were down 0-2 to Cleveland and then came back and won that series, pushed Houston to game seven of the ASS. They're this close. And this is the baby bombers, okay? Gleyber Torres hadn't even come up yet. And you're sitting there thinking, okay, wow, this team is on the rise. They weren't supposed to be this good right now. Aaron Judge wasn't supposed to hit 52 home runs in his first year. All that. They had Sanchez was an all-star. Judge was an all-star. Severino was an all-star. And I said, Torres hadn't even come up yet. And what happened was there was a whole other year until Bryce Harper was going to be free agent. And the Yankees said, I don't know that we can

waste this whole year waiting for Bryce Harper and maybe signing with the Yankees. Okay. I think we all knew that he won, you know, Listen, it was a great fit, right? But it was still a maybe. Giancarlo Stanton's available now. He just hit 59 home runs. You don't have to give up much to get him, and his contract is probably longer and going to be cheaper than what Harper's going to be.

Now, okay, differences. Harper's left-handed. He's younger. Stanton was right-handed, older. Maybe not the best fit. But the Yankees made a calculated gamble to say, 2018 is a window here, and we can't get Bryce Harper in 2018. Let's keep moving forward here. Pair Judge and Stanton together and look at what that's going to be. Look at what that's going to be. We know where this turned out, Keith, but looking at it through that perspective,

what do you think about the idea of what the Yankees ended up doing and what they didn't end up doing? I think that Brian Cashman will be judged on the free agencies passed on and the guys that he chose to take on and the contracts he decided to dish out. I spoke last night about Bryce Harper's $330 million, Manny Machado's $300 million plus, some other guys that, you know, even this past year with the shortstops they've passed on. When they made the move for Giancarlo Stanton, it felt like an evil empire move, right? It felt like, oh, man, the Yankees were in game seven of the ALCS. They already have Aaron Judge in right field.

Then you add another, you know, MVP that hit 59 bombs with the guy that hit 52 bombs. They're going to be unstoppable. And they weren't underdogs anymore. They stopped being underdogs the second they made that trade. It went from being like rebuild the empire to 2017, we're ahead of schedule, to boom, putting John Carlos Stanton on the team. Here we go. We're off and running.

Through the roof again. Yeah. You know, you fast forward to – But that's the reason they passed on Bryce Harper, okay? Yeah. No, it's simple. It's very simple. It's like – it was a decision.

Like you just said, uh stan had 59 bombs he was an mvp he was you know trying to only go to a certain amount of places you didn't have to give up too much for him they inherited that contract which a lot of people said was one of the worst contracts in baseball they're still in it and uh like i said brian cashman will be judged on the fact that he took on john Carlos Stanton's $325 million. He gave another $324 million to Garrett Cole. Garrett Cole was one of the guys that you decided you wanted, right? Cashman's white whale.

He decided that that was a guy worthy of giving all of that money to. And there will be a long list of free agents and guys that, you know, he didn't hit on in free agency and even at the trade deadline. Guys that were available via trade that he didn't trade for. And Yankees fans will look at what they had and, you know, what it turned into. In 2018 with Giancarlo Stanton, they were bounced in the ALDS against the rival Red Sox.

They took a step back. 2019, they were able to get back to the ALCS game six, but ultimately still came up short. Fast forward now to where we are with this team. They owe another $300-plus million to Aaron Judge. Will they be able to successfully do that? I don't know. But all of these things stack up in people's cases against Brian Cashman, how he's run the team, the decisions he's made on players that are on this team and the players that

he's passed on. Let me throw another wrinkle into the Stanton thing though. Okay. Let's remember he was signed to that deal with Miami and had a no trade clause. Right. He was only a couple of places that you could go. Right. And do you remember where they, where they were? The Dodgers St. Louis. Yeah. And now there are only four teams. Those are two. I think the Giants were one.

Maybe the Giants. They tried to do St. Louis, but it wasn't going to work because he didn't want to go there. And then the Giants or the other or vice versa, I forget. But then there were two American League teams. One was the Yankees. Do you know who the other one was? The Yankees and... know who the other one was uh the yankees and how about the houston astros now imagine that now see now putting this back in the we're killing the yankees for just taking for taking on stanton's contract and being here left naked and without bryce harper

right but now think about this if john carlos stanton goes to the astros and what you've been doing I don't know if it's going to play out exact same way, but you've been chasing the Astros for five years and they had that back to their lineup. OK, Altuve, Bregman, Stanton, Alvarez. Right. That's their lineup. And you're having to face that down. Aren't you then killing the Yankees for letting that happen when sure you've taken him and let him go to the Astros instead you had to play keep away um we've seen what he's done in the postseason could you imagine him hitting a home run every other game for the Astros in the postseason that'd be nuts against the Yankees right against the Yankees he could have killed the Yankees and people would have been like we could have had this guy there was only a certain amount of teams the Yankees won the Giancarlo sweepstakes, but they fumbled a rock.

They made him a DH. He got some injuries and some other things that slowed him up, and he's never been the same player. So what they saw in 2017 in Miami, they never actually got that. They've gotten bits and pieces of it. He's been a good player. He's a good player. He's a good player. He's been clutch.

He's had some good Octobers. But as far as putting full seasons together, it's been tough to see him have a full, healthy, solid season. 2018, he helped carry the team with Miguel Andujar. But that was a season that they came up short, so it didn't really matter. But, you know, Harper has, you know, after winning that first MVP with the Nationals, he struggled a little bit. Talked about the injury that he suffered this year, the cost of the miss about two months of the season,

and then struggled in September as the Phillies were, you know, trying to get into the playoffs. He wasn't in form yet because of all the time that he missed, and he really took off in October. I just think it's interesting to compare. Like we're looking at it right now and seeing Harper and seeing the Phillies, and you can't just jump to that conclusion. You kind of have to put all the pieces back together

and remember how they fit in order to make this whole thing make sense and say, okay, did they really screw up, or could they have done a better – should they have done a better job, or was it just a matter of circumstances? I think it's always a little bit of both. It's never one or the other. Yeah. And hindsight is 2020. Everybody can look now and say this, but if the Phillies missed the post season and the Brewers were in, you know, we wouldn't even be able to have some of these conversations about, you know, but that's what it is.

It's Yankees fans looking at the Yankees and trying to pick holes in their moves and their decision-making as a cause for firing the general manager or not re-upping the general manager. And, you know, here we go. I think this is the most important offseason out of a lot of these past offseasons, not just because of Aaron Judge, but because of Brian Cashman's status, Aaron Boone going into the second year of his three-year contract with an option for four,

and these fans who are just super hungry to get back to a World Series and to have something real, right? I just feel like the Yankees turn into a pumpkin. They seem fake. They'll have a couple good months that'll get you excited. I put out a tweet that got a lot of attention. I'm like, their strategy is simple to me. Live off your history, right?

They've got great history. And they can always have a Derek Jeter night, a Paul O'Neill night. Go to the ballpark and you'll see it, right? It's the museum, right? There's a ton of history. So sell that history. Field a competitive team. Spend enough money to field a competitive team.

Even if you're putting $21 million into Josh Donaldson, like your payroll is up there. But then pass on Carlos Correa. Pass on Manny Machado. Pass on Bryce Harper because now your new model is we don't do any more Jacoby Ellsbury contracts, A-Rod contract. We don't do those big deals anymore. We're analytics-based. We're analytics-driven. Win enough games with that competitive team where fans keep coming back. This was a hell of a year for attendance for the Yankees. I was in

there. I went to about 45, 50 games. There was 40,000 plus people in there. A lot. That was standard. There weren't many games that were under 40,000 and you can thank judge for the end of the year that he gave with his chase. So that's also in the strategy and business model. Keep the fans coming back. And then when you get to the post season, hike up those ticket prices, which the ticket prices for this postseason were insane they're insane they're insane i'm i thank god that i was

in the media this year and i was able to not uh have to play the ticket game because i thought about years past where i you know was in there uh spending 125 for standing room only and things like that and you know people pay all this money and they they get excited about the postseason and then you come up short and instead of making drastic changes you make excuses and we're already uh seeing the excuses right as soon as the season ended oh uh the fans were brutal they booed judge this guy was hurt and this didn't happen and the scheduling and you know there's a bunch of reasons everybody's talking about the astro people talking to the astros now about scheduling how you're missing days i mean like i don't know just play the game right just

play like this is hard and don't strike out 500 times and i'll tell you what if the phillies do end up winning this or even pushing houston it just it will continue to show you what the regular season win totals end up meaning for you at the end it gets you there listen that's keith this is the ncaa tournament right like duke can't go 16 and 18 in the regular season and get into the dance. They have to go 28 and 4 and get in. And then they might get knocked off, but guess what? Nobody's asking to fire Coach K when they lose in the second round. It just happens.

Baseball's created this. The more teams they allow in, this is exactly the type of thing. You're just begging teams to get hot and if you've got pitcher like Aaron Nola or Zach Wheeler if you've got a player like Bryce Harper this is why Keith this is why it was so imperative for the Yankees to just get in when you were when you know in 2021 when you were just struggling you had Garrett Cole you You had Aaron Judge. Just get in and see what happens. That's why what you're talking about, the idea of fielding a team that can get into the playoffs, the Phillies are living examples of what can be done if you do it. just got into the playoffs, spending a fortune doing it. And now, as you and I are talking, they're two wins away from winning the whole damn thing.

That's why the Yankees can – listen, it doesn't always work, and it hasn't worked since 2009. I get that part. But you're building a chance to get in. That's what they've been about. It's all about the dance. You get in the dance and anything can happen. And that's why I say it's such a great story for baseball. These other cities and markets that might not feel like they have the highest payroll or might not have all the superstars. They feel like they have a chance. So if they can get into this fall frenzy, this October madness.

It's mine, by the way. Hashtag Fall Frenzy. That's me. Dollar sign. Until next year when you see the bracket come out, it says Fall Frenzy TM Major League Baseball trademarked there. I should get on that now. As soon as we're done, I'm going to get on that. There's a lawyer listening. Anybody? Fall Frenzy. I've been calling it October Madness, but it has made for a fun tournament. It has made for fun stories. Baseball is supposed to be fun. It's great, right? And, you know, like you said, for the Yankees, it hasn't worked.

I feel like every season the Yankees are hurt late in the year. I feel like they're relying on a handful of players that come up small at the end of the year and you're seeing that that's like the opposite of what's going on with these teams that are successful in october i mean look at i mean uh uh kyle schwarber and nicholas castellanos are two great examples to me if these players were on the yankees all year long they would drive you batty right they would have been hated they would have been certainly hated this is all all the time. Joey Gallo and Aaron Hicks. Yeah. Could you imagine that?

I mean, Nick Castellanos in right field, he was not good defensively. And now he's Roberto Clemente out there. Come on. It's nuts. I met him and his family when I was in the fan cave. He was a third baseman when he was in Detroit. And now he's out there making sliding catches. They play so together, you know, like they're like, hey, come in a little bit.

You know, they're like helping each other. Bryce Harper talking to Alec Baum. Hey, this is what you should look for. I just hit a bomb off this guy. First pitch swinging Alec Baum. Alec swinging, Alec Baum hits a bomb, and it's like all these people talking about tipping pitches. It's simple, bro. These guys have meetings. They have hitters meetings, and they know what to look for, and that's what they were saying.

We just have good at bats, and we share. You also throw hangers, too. You know what I mean? As long as you're throwing good ones. Right. You hang those curveballs, or even I think he threw a fastball to Boehm, like a 93-mile – maybe it was a fastball or a slider. Either way, it got spanked.

And they hit five home runs off of him. Those guys were having a literal home run derby and rocking that place. That place was going upside down insane. And, man, you want that for the Yankees, but you're just not sure how that happens. And I feel like the Yankees want to be mad scientists. They want to think into, like, how to craft this team that can do it, and they haven't figured it out.

So, you know, sometimes I think you've got to buy players, right? The Phillies did buy players. They have one of the highest payrolls. You do have to get back to buying players, but you also have to be analytically driven and have information, but then also know what to do with that information when you get on the field and have a manager that puts you in the best situations to succeed. And trying to stay there.

Like that's where they've kind of fallen off. And it's gotten old, I think, for fans because just being there isn't good enough and i understand that but you have these other teams that have cratered and bottomed out before they get to where they are the phillies didn't even make the playoffs for 10 years the astros were the worst team in baseball tried to be the worst team in baseball for three four years before they got there the red sox have finished in the last place a couple of times you know it's everything's great if you win but you can't guarantee the win. And I understand that's the frustrating part,

but the Yankees have tried to give themselves a chance, and the Phillies are just living examples of why just having a chance is why you try to make the playoffs, is why you push all your chips in when you can, instead of just saying, let's do this, let's clean house, let's do that. It doesn't always work. Sometimes it does. The Phillies are riding a pretty good wave right now.

This is BXB. It's the Bronx Baseball Yankees podcast, the World Series edition with the Phillies and Astros in the World Series. The Yankees got bounced. We're available on Odyssey from WFAN. He's Keith McPherson. I'm Sweeney murdy and make sure you subscribe review tell your friends and all that on socials as well listen the yankees have a list of free agents and we can rank them but i think we all know who's the number one guy

um aaron judge is as soon as the world series ends aaron judge is officially a free agent and you know i i you're gonna end up fielding a lot of these calls we're gonna talk about them a lot social media is gonna be flooded about it keith what are the yankees doing where are they where's the offer why aren't they signed why isn't he signed yet guess what judge now controls this not the yankees yeah aaron judge is in control he is a free agent for the first time and probably the only time in his career that he is going to have the ability to do this he's coming off the season that he's having dude he's going to take his sweet time and he's going to field a lot of offers it's going to take a while and uh i

definitely have to read your article and uh i definitely have taken some calls on this last night someone said what are the what is the percentage chance that Judge is a Yankee? I said, it's 50-50. And I think it's 50-50. I think there might be a 30% chance that he's a Giant and then a 20% chance that he's a Dodger. And I think that there's a chance that he falls into some Freddie Freeman type stuff if things don't get communicated, if things get drawn out,

and if he's ready to sign somewhere. And, you know, with negotiations, the Yankees have, okay, they got eliminated. Yesterday was Monday. They got eliminated a week and a day ago from yesterday, like two Sundays ago. Ten days ago, let's say. So they've already had technically like ten days,

and then they get this whole World Series stretch, and then five days after the world series where no one else can talk to him offer him you would like for the yankees to lock him up in that time right you'd like we know that we you would like that as a fan like okay but i've explained and this is the article that i wrote i explained why this isn't happening because there is no way in hell that Aaron judge is going to get this close to free agency and not see what's on the other side of that door. Not to you'd be the agent. You, you would be basically cutting off the whole process and saying, sure, we'll take whatever the

Yankees give you. When you are seconds away from finding out how much more you can get what your true value is you are not a free agent until other teams say here's how much we're going to offer you it is it is the union would throw up you know unless they gave it unless the Yankees signed for 500 million dollars which they're not going to he owes it there's no way he's not going to free agency he owes it to the union and players that will come after him. He owes it to himself and his family. It's business, right? I remember when, you know, and this is micro compared to how major judges thing is, but I worked at Fubo TV in 2017, 2018. Loved the job.

Loved the company. I was the first social media manager they hired. I got to run all the social digital stuff for the most part in the marketing department. I get a message from Roc Nation. Roc Nation is looking for a digital marketing manager to take over in their sports agency, specifically working with their NFL clients. And they offer me more money than what I was making. my employer know hey like i have this offer you know i'm interested in seeing what's behind that door but like i gave them a chance to counter and but then it got to the point where it was like okay they they countered and they matched the offer and they wanted to give me some more equity and stuff but i had already started to smell the uh grass on the other side. You said, I might like it over here. Yeah, I'm like, I kind of like sports and hip hop and want to meet Jay-Z.

And I literally told my family and them, I'm like, I've gotten this far. I have to go through with it now. I have to see what's on the other side of the door. Keith, that's a very key point that an agent told me about. Because a GM, I talked to a former point that an agent told me about, because the GM, I talked to a former GM and an agent to try to piece together what this part of the negotiation looks like for Judge. And he said that the Yankees, there's no way the Yankees are going to even make an offer to Judge now because he's not going to take it. All you're doing is you're

giving him leverage. You're giving him an offer and he's going to say, look, Dodgers, this is what the Yankees have just offered me. What are you to you know look Giants so it makes no sense whatsoever to for the Yankees to even offer him right now he wants to test for agency go ahead you're always going to be here to give him an offer he knows who you are now the key is as soon as the Dodgers the Giants whoever start talking to Judge and he starts hmm, what's it going to be like to be there? As soon as that seed is planted, now you are actually fighting something. So there's kind of a sweet spot there where you have to wait until he gets to free agency or is talking to people, but you've got to kind of pounce with an offer before he starts imagining himself in those other places

because once he does that, now you might be fighting a losing battle. And it's hard to go back once you, you, you start imagining yourself elsewhere and wondering what it would be like. And, you know, I also played football. Um, you, you get to go on recruiting visits and I made a mistake in my recruitment. I went to James Madison university and I absolutely loved it. And I said, all right, I don't need to take my other four visits. I want to come here. And I would tell people, and I did tell people coming up, take all your visits. Go see what else is out there. So you have something to compare to. You have to go. You can't just say, I like it here. I'm going to stay here. There might be a better opportunity for you elsewhere. And I think Judge wants to win,

be a better opportunity for you elsewhere and uh i think judge wants to win but i think judge wants to be paid as the player that he currently is in major league baseball um he's gonna sign the biggest deal and uh i just i fear that if he starts to go back to or if he goes to if he goes if he goes back home and he starts to see what the giants have to offer they've been preparing for this for a little while they're gonna do their best to roll out the Giants have to offer. They've been preparing for this for a little while. They're going to do their best to roll out the red carpet and to wine and dine him and to show him what's going on over there. Aaron, this is Barry Bonds. How you doing? Right. And there's something I can speak to as well about being a fan.

I said last night, you know, me being in the booth with you and Susan and John during the rain delay, you know, in the post season, I'm like, man, how did I end up here? I would be out there in a poncho in the rain, you know, mad, but I'm like, you know, I'm blessed to have gotten here. And that stems from my fandom, right? That stems, that stems from me listening to you do rain delay theater and me being a Yankee fan and like actually getting there, it blows your mind. So there's something that is to be like, like they could blow his mind.

There's something to be said about the fact that he, he still goes home and watches giants games after he plays his Yankees games. There's something to be said about him being a little boy and being a Barry Bonds fan. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. If they do ante up and they do put the money on the piece of paper that, you know, judge can't refuse. He's gone. He's gone. And I, we've seen, we've seen athletes make moves. Like I'm a Nets fan. I've seen Kevin Durant go from Oklahoma city to the warriors. Can't beat them, join them. And people hated him for that.

And he came through that athletes are doing what's best for them, for their families, for their future. And Judge has done a ton for the New York Yankees. I literally won't even be mad if the Yankees drop the ball on this and somehow he signs with the San Francisco Giants. And listen, I don't think it's – I mean, you're kind of painting the other side of the picture. As soon as he sniffs it, he's gone. I don't think it's there yet, but, I mean, it's always a danger, okay? The Yankees do still have the advantage of being the Yankees.

You know their payroll is not going down. You know that they're always going to be in the mix there. We talked about how these other teams have gone through cycles where they finished in last place. The Red Sox still spend a fortune. The Giants spend a fortune, miss the playoffs, okay? That can happen. But where the Yankees – and the question I get can happen um but where the yankee and the the question i get well listen the yankee mississippi should have locked him up a long time ago well it wasn't happening you know first of all you weren't going to lock him up after

2018-19 the injury filled seasons um and he knew what his potential value was if he put together good seasons so he's not going to short circuit. You saw the Yankees offered him over $30 million a year. And he said, that's not good enough. Okay. So you, you know, you, it's not like the Yankees didn't make whatever their offer was, but they're only going so far when they're bidding against themselves. Sure.

So now you're getting to the point where you the no where's the number gonna go then if if he wants to get 300 okay eight eight for 300 is 37 and a half per season that's gonna be a record aav it'll be a 300 million dollar deal that's that's pretty strong number okay i think that's a pretty strong number but remember where the yankees were they were 213 okay if the yankees offered 250 he's probably still not signing like he knows he bet on himself and he did this he's not getting this close to free agency there is not a number the yankees could have put in front of him that didn't start with a four probably that he's going to just sign no questions asked Keith he was going to test it biggest decision of his

life um I was talking last night about the Mookie Betts contract because that's what I thought the Yankees looked at like okay Mookie Betts signed that three-year um not three-year that 30.5 million dollar a year deal for 12 years uh but that was a couple of years back. And Judge looked at that like, I'm better than Mookie Betts. It was also an extension. Let's forget. That's not a free agent contract. There was not open bidding on Mookie Betts. He was traded and signed an extension. And there's a big difference in the business process. And this would have been an extension for Judge. And that's why I just, you know, I remember, I remember exactly how I felt opening day and thinking about it. I didn't feel like it was a low ball offer.

I said, hey, that's a fortune and you don't turn down your first fortune. But I said also, as Yankees fans, if we have a motivated Aaron Judge going out there with something to prove, turn down $230 million, that means we're going to have a good time this year. That means that this guy is going to be locked in. He's going to go off and look at the season he had. He breaks the home run record for the AL, 62 bombs. He almost had the triple crown. He bats 311, 131 RBI, a ridiculous year, carried the team, walked the team off, hit big home runs, had multiple games with two home runs. The guy went absolutely off in the year that he had to. So he's going to see this through.

And I think that the Giants are up there. I think that the Dodgers will be up there just because they're division rivals with the Giants. And I think the Yankees obviously have the captaincy that they can offer him, some endorsements and maybe even some access to some secret clubs and dinners and who knows what else. Captain's a real thing. You can start to put that in motion. I mean, you say, listen, you sign here, you're going to be captain. Like that didn't come with Jeter's contract.

He signed an extension, and there were still some veteran players on the team at that point. That didn't come until 2003 when he had kind of moved past some of those guys. I think Judge is probably at the point where you can make that part of the contract and say, dude, you're going to be captain of the Yankees. And which means you're going to have one of those big plaques out there one day. That's what you're going to be. And that could mean something, but the number has to be right too. The number has to be right. And I think Judge is a baseball fan, historian. I think he does understand his place in Yankee culture and Yankee lore.

And like I mentioned earlier, the Yankees living off their history, having Derek Jeter nights and Paul O'Neill nights and any chance they can honor the 20-year, 30-year, 40-year anniversary is something they're going to do it. We're running out of numbers that'll be retired. We're running out of those nights to have. What's the next generation, right? I'm 34. I'm in there getting emotional, looking at Jeter's whole career and Jeter coming out with his kids who have no idea about what he did. And I'm having my whole baseball life flash in front of my eyes like man

this is how I got into baseball watching Derek Jeter in 96 97 98 and now I'm here at his hall of fame plaque night like what's the next one for these young kids that got into baseball watching Aaron Judge as a rookie in 2017 um you know you know how I know the game has changed because I'm on my son's soccer game and there are soccer players on wearing number 99. Okay. Yeah. Like I don't follow soccer, but I'm pretty sure they're not wearing it for some. 99 is judge. I don't even know if there's a 99 in the NFL that they're requesting 99s. Okay. little kids are requested no matter what sport they're in little kids are now requesting 99 that's where aaron judge is uh that's the kind of player he is and the yankees have this sweet spot that they're gonna have to hit keith of letting him get the

free agency and say go ahead we know you want to see what's out there we don't mind go ahead and see what's out there but then we're gonna come Go ahead and see what's out there. But then we're going to come back to you and say, here's why we want you here. And the here's why we want you here is going to include a whole lot of money. And it's going to include probably the idea that he's going to be a captain and whatever else comes with that. But it's going to be a lot more money than they offered him in April. It just has to be. And they know that, but they also know that he's not going to take anything right now. So, you know, that's why halfway through the season, you know, this was true. When Aaron Judge was at 30 home runs and had a chance at 60, you knew that there was no contract he was going to sign

until he got to free agency, because you're not short-circuiting that process. The value only goes up when more bidders enter the market, whether it's Fubo or Jay-Z or whoever you want to talk about. Yeah. And to bring that story around, I went to Roc Nation and I quit after three months. Because you didn't like it. You went for the money and you didn't like it. Exactly. I went for the money and the name and what I, and, you know, what I thought I was getting into. And I was like, this wasn't for me. I would have liked to go, go back to Fubo, but no, everything happens for a reason. After I quit that job, I was like, I want to get into sports media. I got to start making content.

And here we are now, but with judge, with judge, yeah, he is an icon. And I, I'm kind of worried about this. I know we don't have the time, but Hey, we'll, we'll be back on another episode. Um, and Ryan just put in the chat Yanks planning media availability with Boone and Cashman on Friday. So maybe we'll plan to have an episode coming off that. I don't know what time it'll be Friday. Maybe we'll do one Monday.

I'll tell you what though. That probably means, and those before we hit what you're going to hit, like, we know that Aaron Boone is coming back. Hal Steinmer saidner said that. I mean, it would likely, my experience tells me the Yankees aren't going to hold a media availability with Brian Cashman. Cashman's back?

If he's not back, if he's, you know, if there's any sort of limbo there. And listen, we talked about this. We all kind of knew that it was pointing in that direction, right? We all knew that that was going to happen. But we can react to that more based off of the answers that he gives at that point in time. But you were going to say something else. Yeah, speaking of Cashman's job, and I've said on WFAN since I got on,

that is Brian Cashman's job until he doesn't want it anymore. He's 55. He might have another 10 years there. If he wants to do that until he retires, he's going to. They don't know any other way they don't have any other guy and there isn't a there isn't a guy i think they can elevate in the yankees organization michael fishman they're they're they're the same thing um and there's no outside guy there isn't this like guy rising up i hear people throw like theo epstein's

name out there or even the guy with Stearns from Milwaukee. I'm like, you guys are crazy. Brian Cashman is respected. That's his job until he doesn't want it, whether you like it or not, whether you have all of these long lists of things. Oh, he hasn't developed the pitching. He missed out on these free agents. Yeah, but he's also done things like

I had a long list of the players that showed up this postseason, like Harrison Bader, Anthony Rizzo, Wandy Peralta. I'm like, those are Cashman moves. So you have to give him credit. It's me, DJ LeMay, who just won gold gloves. You have to give him credit. Yeah, you have to give him credit for that.

But here's what I was going to get at that I didn't end up saying. It falls in line with Cashman's job. There's a wait for Aaron Judge, but you can't not do anything else while you wait for Aaron Judge because other free agents are going to come off the board and other moves are going to be made. And this team has way more issues than just right field and Aaron Judge. Yeah. And think about this way. I mean, if you want Aaron Judge, okay. I thought about this the other day. Now I understand it doesn't have to equal this way, but if you're going to woo Aaron Judge as a free agent, you want to show him the best of your organization and show him that this is the place where he should be playing.

playing, is organizational upheaval, firing a manager and general manager, the picture you want to paint with your most important player, getting to choose where he's going to work for the next seven or eight or 10 years? That's not the perfect reason to bring them back, but I don't think that that paints the picture you want. Organizational instability is not the picture you want when your best player is a free agent. I don't think the Mets are a dark horse candidate, but these Mets fans seem to think that they have a shot at getting Aaron Judge. I just don't think he would he would mess up his history with the Yankees and go to the Mets. If you go to the Giants, the money can talk. You never know. I never, never, never. You know what I you know what I said to in my like my like post season, post season, like post postseason rant.

I said, you don't want to blow this up right now. Right. During this regular season, there were points in this regular season where people were saying the Mets are the new gold standard of baseball in New York. Steve Cohen is the new George Steinbrenner. You want to blow this up right now when you have this right in town? Not not talking about the whole league. Just focusing on New York. Do you want to blow this up right now? Get rid of your general manager. Get rid of your manager.

Not sign Judge and be in a situation where you potentially miss the postseason and then the Mets go back to the postseason. You talk about that. I don't know if they think about that, but this is not the time to blow it up. This is the time to. Garrett Cole, by the way, is going to say, you know what, I'm going to,

I'm going to, you know, ask you to trade me because I don't, you know, this is all a mess. Yeah. I don't want the prime of my career and nobody wants to be in a rebuild right now. And it's not the time for the Yankees to blow it up. And they're not going to blow it up. They got to the American league championship embarrassingly got swept, but they won 99 games. They won the division and they got to the American League Championship again. There is one team

standing in the way, the Houston Astros, and they need to figure out what to do to be able to go toe-to-toe with Houston and beat them. They have the blueprint, I don't know, in all of these World Series from the Phillies, the Braves, the Nationals, the NL East going toe-to-toe and beating them. Hit home runs. Guys, that's what they do. Hit home runs. The Phillies hit home runs last year.

Out-homer them. The Phillies hit home runs. The Nationals hit home runs. If you're going to bring in a guy like Josh Donaldson, expecting him to have pop and hit 20 home runs, make sure he's actually like that. Make sure he can still do that. Yeah. I think that was – and we got a list of guys we're going to have pop and hit 20 home runs make sure he's actually like that make sure he can still do that yeah there was i think i think that was you know and then we got a list of guys we're gonna have

to get to next time because you know we've got the the who stays and who goes i mean we touched on judge boone and cashman but you know donaldson and hicks and connor falafel maybe torres uh you know there's gonna be turnover and pitchers you know tyone is there um there's a lot to consider right there but you know we should probably save that for next time i know you're um uh you mentioned uh your uh partner mlb network was uh lauren gardner um alana rizzo had a new partner uh in um on high heat uh stepping in for chris russo was harrison bader he made a couple of appearances over there too um this is a guy that i think yankee fans got to like in the month that they got to see him. He's great. I already have said, get me a number 22,

a 22 pinstripe jersey going into next year. Don't you still have one for Jacoby Ellsbury? No, hell no. I didn't buy that jersey, especially coming from the Red Sox. I was looking at him with a side eye from the beginning. Come on, you have one. I was in the fan cave that year, and the kid that was in the fan cave with me, Ben Barker, I'll never forget. He used to call Jacoby Ellsbury boo-boo boy. He'd say he's always got a boo-boo. He's never going to play for you guys. He's always got a boo-boo.

And you signed him to this contract. I'm like, I didn't sign him. I don't know what he's going to be. So, no, I didn't get that Jacoby Ellsbury jersey. But, yes, love Harrison Bader going on MLB Network,b network mlb central high heat he's doing his media rounds uh dj and trevino just won gold gloves uh trevino won the fielding bible award he'll be back dj you hope that next year he'll be back and healthy for the whole season he's missed the last two post seasons which sucks but you know these guys are now in

the offseason fully uh some of them sent out their you know end of season messages it didn't end the way we wanted but we were making memories and yeah yeah yeah um we'll see what happens with cashman and boone on friday and we'll come back and we'll talk about who's staying who's going ben and tendy and uh you know even rizzo is Rizzo going to be back? We don't know. We'll find out soon on Baseball Z. That's us. BXB, baseball, Bronx baseball. It's the Yankees podcast from Odyssey and from WFAN.

And you can catch us here. We will come back when the Boone and Cashman meet availability, which according to Andy Martino is Friday. When that's complete, we will wrap that up as well. And we just, listen, we just touched on it. Judge, all these other free agents, a lot of business for the Yankees to attend to, and we will be covering it all winter long.

Appreciate those of you who have been joining us from the beginning and found us along the way and hope you keep coming back for more. He's Keith McPherson. I'm Sweeney Murdy. Our producer is Ryan Chichester. Remember to subscribe, rate, review, download, follow, everything you can do to a podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure you do it and come back for more. Thanks for listening.