High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Breaking Down the MLB Draft with Keith Law

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back as they are joined by Keith Law to talk some MLB Draft leading up to Wednesday (19:00 mark).  See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the High Hopes Podcast. High Hopes. It's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the Philadelphia Phillies on Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast. Jack, I hope for that, yo, I tried to combine the yo

of what's going on in Major League Baseball right now, but also the excitement that we have Keith Law coming on, and the draft is this week, and I wanted to give a little excitement for you, but I didn't want to overdo it because, you know, baseball sucks right now. Well, you know, yo is me.

Oh, buddy. I hope you didn't take a lot of time to think about that one. I actually didn't. That one was right on the spot. So we're at a yo is me point of the MLB baseball discussion. It really is. It works. Yo is me, man. Yeah, it's very...

Yeah, just figure it out. But like, I don't know i i feel i still i feel like it's i feel like it's gonna happen i i know that sounds like whatever and you know pie in the sky but like even even the thing today it was like that kind of is closer it's not it's not definitely not close enough like at all even though the player said it's a step back right but i don't i don't know the i think the fact that the draft pick thing i think that was a pretty big um thing i agree and i just session i think it comes down to do they do they care about games or they care about the prorated salary and i almost feel like they'd rather just take the 50 games with 100 prorated salary like why? Like, why would they play more games for less money when they can just play, like, 50 and get the full 100% prorated stuff?

So I kind of feel like it's going to come down to that. It's going to come down to what they want to do. I think they could concede at, like, 85% of the prorated salary, you know, if they want to play 76 to 82 games. But if they're not going to do that then i think they're just going to play play 50 games with a full 100 you know 100 pro-rated salary so i still think something's going to happen but like 50 games for as much as we'd be excited about a sprint and just having baseball like 50 games is a sham it's just it's just a total sham to what baseball the best the best uh most relevant right now nugget that i've seen since uh you know the how much of a sham the 50 game thing is

is someone pointing out that the washington nationals the world series champion were 19 and 31 through 50 games last year so and the phillies were in first place in the nl east yeah yeah i mean it's such it's such a sham on baseball but whatever i mean this season's gonna suck anyway like i was yeah it's definitely a take what you can get type of spot it feels like right now yeah and the thing that i hate the most about it it's just like there's gonna be no fans and like you're telling me the phillies are gonna play but gonna be in a playoff series and there's not gonna be any fans in the stands it's just it's gonna be stupid the whole thing is just gonna be stupid but i i want it back i need it back and i don't know i i think they'll just i think they'll just say bleep it we'll just play 50 games and just get it in um unfortunately i

don't know if that's gonna happen until what, like August when when they might start that up. So it's 50 games and whatever. And they've already wasted the opportunity to be the first sport back, which is just so classic baseball. But it's so bad. Yeah, the whole the whole thing is so bad. talked about it a bunch, but I mean, you can't say it enough that millionaires and billionaires have spent the last two months arguing publicly while 42 million people are out of work. And, you know, there's a virus that has killed over a hundred thousand people. And now we have nationwide protests and worldwide protests and, and baseball labor versus the, you know, the, the owners. And you can just guarantee it's like, no matter what else is happening in the world, it's going to suck and they're going to suck

and they're going to hate each other. And there's going to be animosity and acrimony. And it's just, it's, it's embarrassing and it's frustrating. And it's like you said, look, they had the chance to come back and really be a sign of a return to normalcy, a much-needed distraction for so many people going through what we were just talking about. They had a chance to be that beacon of hope and positivity in America. And instead, they couldn't do it because of money, Jack, because of money. And it's so frustrating. And I'm with you. I think we're at the point where it's going to just be a forced 50-game season. I think – I have not seen a single person, even the most ardent of baseball homers,

who has not said that it is a sham of a season for a 50-game season. And it could be fun because every game matters and there will be a sprint to the finish and all that stuff. But it's definitely a sham of a season for a 50-game season. And it could be fun because every game matters and there'll be a sprint to the finish and all that stuff. But it's definitely a sham of the season. It's an asterisk on the title. And it's just like, the shame is that it didn't have to be this way. The shame is that on Sunday I'm out and it's gorgeous out. And all I can think about is why is there not baseball on right now? And we're're gonna have an

extra month without that and end up having just a sham of a season it's really they really bungled it man like they blew this from top to bottom they blew this and and we've both been staunchly on the side of the players but and I still think the owners this this new offer today is just them repackaging the exact same offer like Like you said, one major concession, but the owners are certainly not close to being, you know, the, the negotiating, uh, you know, the giving and the negotiations the way they claim to. But regardless, I'm at the point where I, I'm mad at everybody. Like I'm just mad at everyone at this point. Like I just want this to be figured out because my favorite sport

looks like a bunch of assholes while these other sports and i know it's an easier situation because they haven't started their season yet are they they're already deep into their season they can just do playoffs and stuff but these other sports just shut up plan how they're gonna play figure out the health and safety and they're all gonna go play and they're gonna be the nba is gonna be back before baseball at this point jack Jack, like that's a joke. A hundred percent of joke and not a funny, it's not, it's not even a funny joke.

No, it's a horrendous, awful joke, but a joke. It's not even a point. And I think the thing that now I'm starting to get the most mad about the 50 game season is like, God forbid,

what if Nola gets hurt and he needs Tommy John and then he's out for the, like, there's so like, there's so much little injury stuff that can go wrong that like, God forbid, what if Nola gets hurt and he needs Tommy John? And then he's out for the, like, there's so much little injury stuff that can go wrong that, and like the JT free agency thing, it's like, well, cool, we're going to get JT, what, four out of five games or, you know, something like that? Like, it's just, it's not, it's not baseball. But, you know, what can you do? I mean, John Middleton is not even sniffing Jack Middleton anytime soon.

Oh, my God. Well, I mean, that's the bigger thing, too. And that's why I haven't been able to understand a little bit from the player side. Again, I understand arguing against, you know, what effectively amounted to a salary cap. And I understand holding your ground. And I personally think they've been far too worried about setting a precedent for the 2021 negotiations than they have been about focusing on the unique moment that them and we are all in and just focusing on finding a deal that's acceptable for the moment. They're far too worried about setting precedents for the next negotiation, which I'm sure as we can tell is going to be a disaster as well.

No, I'm feeling good about it. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? I mean, all evidence says it's great. It seems like a bad time, given everything that's going on in the world, to take a stand. Yeah. If they can't figure it out now, I don't know why they would be able to figure it out in a much less high-pressure, you know, figure-deal type-out situation. But I think that I understand the players not wanting to set a precedent, but at the same time, I also think there are things,

like you just alluded to, that they could be getting out of this, that it doesn't seem like they're as intent on it as they should be, like a salary floor for next season or whatever. I mean, they're going to get killed in free agency. Mookie Betts, that record contractor, whatever, he's not sniffing it. Like Romulo, like it's actually going to be a detriment to this guy that he's a free agent when he is and it sucks for him, but no team is going to give him the money that he wants. Like these

teams are going to cry porn free agency. This is going to be a longer term problem for the players than just this moment. And I think that that's what they're missing. And I, again, I'm on their side in this, but I think they're failing to recognize that they're going to be screwed in the future, no matter what, like they need to do something to safeguard against that, like, and, and be willing to give a little bit in some way or another, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't know if this has been discussed at all or if it's been brought up in the in the negotiation meetings but are players allowed to get older in this in this time like aaron noel just turned 27 that's

not allowed right he's gonna he's gonna get his age 27 we're ruining but bryce harper 27 season was like half the reason i was excited to sign him. I mean, this is such a gigantic, massive pick in the junk. You know what's even better? Is that they're not going to be able to use this full age 27 season. And then when there's a work stop in two years, they're not going to be able to use this age 29 season. So two of Bryce Harper's peak prime seasons are not going to be played.

And I would just like Major League Baseball to factor that in when we're talking about these labor negotiations. Don't take away these prime Bryce seasons from me. All right. We have now ended this conversation. I'm done. I can't do this. I'm so sad right now. We got Keith Law coming up.

Why don't we talk about some more positive things it's hard to other than the fact that it's only five rounds which you know i'm sure we'll talk to keith about and is a real problem um nothing wrong with the draft and i know that it's jack's this is this is jack's pod this one's for jack so jack let's talk a little draft we got keith law coming up in a few minutes one of the preeminent draft guys out there. Excited to talk to him. Jack and I, a little inside baseball, have a Google Doc with all our questions for Keith. And mine are like some big pictures, stuff or whatever.

Jack has like 30 questions about players in the draft. It was so, like you just nerding out in the google doc to ask keith law all these questions about the draft yeah i got some major questions because like i could tell because like here's the thing is that i like i think i have a good eye for this um and i i just i i'm very curious to see how guys who do this for a living, if my eye matches up with what they see. So like, I take it personally when I like him break and like watching these guys. And I just want to,

I just want to see how, how we match up. So, um, I've spent like, I've spent a lot of time on the LB draft. I've watched two full high school. I got probably done more high school American stuff just cause like, I don't know. I really liked the prep the LB draft. I've watched two full high school... I've probably done more high school American stuff just because

I don't know. I really like the prep talent in this draft, but I just can't wait. Everyone has a thing that they love. We know! I'm bursting at the seams. Now, I will be honest. Listen, we never

lie to the high-risk people. That's one of the staples of this podcast. Thought the draft was on Friday. Turns out it's on Wednesday. I don't know why I thought it was on Friday. Maybe I was looking at July and July 10th falls on a Friday. But hand up, totally misplayed that. I get a panic text from Jack on Saturday saying,

Dude, the draft's on Friday. The draft's on Wednesday. I thought it was Friday. We got to we gotta record earlier and i'm like it's all good man we'll just record on monday no problem oh yeah there's nothing that this this this podcast says like you being the calm one the only one all right so go ahead well no i mean i mean we gotta we gotta yeah let's get into it all right so we have keith coming up um and uh we actually so uh if you don't know we don't talk about enough we need to start mentioning more but if you're not on social media or whatever you know it's not your thing you can email us it's the high hopes pod at gmail.com the high hopes pod at gmail.com. TheHighHopesPod at gmail.com. And, Jack, apparently we've gotten some emails asking for my guys as well.

Like, we're going to get your guys here. They want me to have some guys too. Is that true? Yeah. Listen, Nathan Faust chimed in. And he said, yo, it is an email sent from my iPhone checking in to the absolute best. Yeah, checking in on the absolute best Phillies podcast in the nation. Absolutely true. Can we just get an hour-long pod dedicated to just the MLB draft?

Well, Nathan, you're in luck. This is your one, buddy. Mine is just fast forward through the 10 minutes or so of MLB labor discussions at the beginning, and it's all for you, buddy. As good as Fritz is at talking everything MLB draft and baseball in general because he's a superstar, I'd love to

actually hear James do some serious draft homework and discuss slash debate with Jackie Jaff class over all the top prospects in this draft and their potential. So James, you've been called out to maybe do some research for this podcast. And the people want to know, who are your guys in this draft?

Okay. I've responded. I did some research this weekend, Jack. Yeah, how'd that go? It was all right. I'm not going to say I'mie big time or anything like that but i looked into it i looked into got now here i'm not gonna come on here and talk about torkelson or any of those guys at the top that i know are not going to be a philly i'm talking about guys

that have a real chance of being there the phillies i looked at mock drafts jack good good but mock drafts can't tell the whole story, James. Sometimes you got to use your eye. So I have, I have three guys and I'll just say, I'm going to give you a pitcher, a hitter. And then I'm just going to say that after research, the first one is I am a hundred percent co-signing the Nick Bitsko love. Like I like this kid. I am a fan. Obviously, the Seabees thing does it for me as someone who came very close to going to Seabees and went to the school literally right next door. I'm excited about Bisco, and the way you've talked about him has gotten me more excited about Bisco. The little bit I've seen uh i'm in so i'm gonna say i'm in on bits go but i have two other guys um i'll give you the uh the bat and then the pitcher and i apologize if you have mentioned these guys on the pod before hey it's no problem because i generally you know i don't remember you tune

out when i start talking about the track all right i'll go with my bat first. I like Ed Howard. Oh, yes. First of all, Ed Howard is just a baseball name. Doesn't it feel like you plop Ed Howard in the lineup and he's in your lineup for the next decade? I like the name Ed Howard. 18-year-old, seems like a guy who can actually stick at shortstop, which is exciting. I know they just drafted one last year.

I'm a big believer, especially in baseball, in not, double negative here, not not drafting positions just because you have some strength in them in your system, especially when it's shortstops. I don't think you can ever have enough high end shortstops. And he seems to project really well. So I'm in on Ed Howard, Jack. And then my makes me so happy. I'm excited, too. And then my pitcher. makes me so happy i'm excited too and then my picture um i'm going with a lefty here and i was actually surprised i didn't realize how low i looked at a bunch of stuff and then i finally looked at keith's uh stuff we'll talk to in just a second here um keith lost up and he has him way lower on the list than i would have thought like everything i read about this guy i'm hearing josh hater josh hater is the name i keep

hearing with this guy high 90s fastball got a big arm i'm in on garrett crochet love the name love the guy love that he's a lefty let's go jack garrett crochet my guy nice nice you know what i can't wait for are you in on garrett crochet um I like him. When I watch him, I don't like the mechanics, and I think it's going to lead to injuries. The fastball is 99 to 100, which is obviously nasty, but there's just something about it that looks hittable. It looks like hitters can see it for a long time. The longer major league hitters are able to see it,

then obviously they'll catch up to any speed. So I like Garrett Crochet. And if the Phillies are serious about competing this year, he could realistically be drafted and be put in the bullpen almost, you know, pretty fast. Like he should be a fast riser. I mean, 99 to 100 with that wipeout slider and a pretty good feel for a changeup like that, that plays. So I he reminds me of a harder throwing jay hap um but i like him don't love him would not be furious at him at 15 but i like the other guys you mentioned more and let me just say this i like that he did your research and i like that

like if they draft nick biscoe i can just tell that you're one of these baseball fans that's like oh don't take a high school arm because of injury stuff and you know i just i just am excited that you're in on a draft prospect because i feel like you don't usually get your usually don't get your your hopes up around draft prospects i like that your hopes are up and i like that maybe you'll experience some heartbreak on Wednesday, because it happens to me every year. Now, I do love that we are

on such good synergy levels that my 1-2 are also your 1-2. Oh, buddy! Dude, I... Ed Howard! Doesn't Ed Howard... Doesn't he just look like a... He just looks like a franchise shortstop. Looks like a baseball player.

Yeah, just – he looks like the face of a franchise. He really does. And he was on that Chicago team in 2014 that kind of captured the heart of the nation for a little bit there in that Little League World Series team. He can definitely stick at shortstop. And you can just kind of tell when he adds some muscle that you could legitimately have a impact bat there um you know batting in the two hole or something like that like he reminds me a lot of xander bogarts so i uh i'm definitely all

xander bogarts i'm all in on i'm in on ed howard but i am more more in on Nick Bitsko. So we will get, I guess, more into that after Keith Law. It's go time. Let's bring in Keith. And joining us now, it is our pleasure to welcome to the IOPs podcast, senior baseball writer for The Athletic, one of the preeminent voices in MLB draft and in minor leagues and all the development type of stuff in baseball. And you can get his book right now at the inside game bag calls,

strange moves and what a baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves available wherever books are sold. The one, the only Mr. Keith law key. Thanks for joining us, man. Thanks for having me. Oh, it's our pleasure. And we obviously wanted to have you with the draft coming up on Wednesday and kind of get what you're feeling about certain prospects, obviously, and what you're hearing.

And now we might as well just start there. What are you hearing right now? What's the latest? Honestly, I don't have that much that's vastly different from the mock draft I posted last Wednesday. I will post another one this Wednesday. But so far, pretty much small changes. Everyone expects the top three picks to be Torkelson, Spencer Torkelson,

Austin Martinese, and Lacey in some order. And that if anybody decides to go for some kind of, you know, to cut some sort of deal with another player that could start maybe a round pick for, it's going to be a very college heavy first round, probably won't see very many high school pitchers at all selected. Personally, I think there's a lot of talk of teams cutting severe deals or even trying to sort of punt picks entirely. I think that's all talk. I think at the end of the day, teams are going to play it pretty safe,

take college players, get them signed. And if they want to do something a little more daring, they'll start doing it in the comp round or the second round instead. Keith, before we dive in, I want to get into some specific players and what you're hearing on the Phillies as well. Quickly, just a macro question about the draft. Obviously, only five rounds this year and a tougher situation for teams you know, with lack of seasons and all that type of stuff. What other challenges have you seen for teams this draft process? Well, there's a lot of pretty significant challenges. You didn't see players. Some players didn't play at all.

Most players who did play had a very abbreviated season. You have players who didn't play over the summer last year for whatever reason ended up you know they end up really kind of they've been seen less it doesn't make them players but your level of confidence in your evaluations and your valuations of those players is much lower you just have less data and when i say less data i'm referring to both to scouting data and now the more advanced data that we see from systems like TrackMan or from machines like the Rapsodo machines that we read so much about how all teams love to use them. Colleges have even paid to install some

of these systems. We just don't have it. You don't have that data at all or very, very little for the 2020 season. And so teams are really operating in a bit of an informational vacuum. And on top of that, they've lost a lot of their flexibility in the draft. We don't have round six through ten to maybe extend your bonus pool. You take college seniors in those rounds, you can overpay your third or your fourth rounder instead. You can't wait until the 11th round, see which high upside high school guy is still on the board,

take him there and say, we'll give you whatever's left in our draft pool to sign at that pick. All of that is gone, which is part of why I think teams will, they're going to talk a good game and then eventually kind of play it straight because I just think the five-round draft really does not allow for a lot of creativity. Keith, obviously we are a Phillies podcast here, and I know you had them taking Cade Cavalli in your last mock draft. What's the latest you're hearing on the Phillies? I saw you also mentioned that they haven't really been interested in high school arms.

What's the kind of latest you're hearing on the Phillies? Still the same. They're not taking a high school pitcher with that pick, nor should they, frankly. I have seen people trying to link them to the local kid, Nick Bitsko. That's just not accurate. That's a little bit lazy. I mean, teams don't take local players just to take them, right? You don't get bonus points for winning with players who are from your home state.

You take the best player. And I think the Phillies very much, that's been their philosophy. You know, it's a new scouting director this year. It's not going to change. They're still going to try to take the person they believe is the best player. But that could be anything. It could be a college hitter. I think it probably won't be just the way the board is shaking out.

I think they're going to end up choosing between one or two high school hitters, maybe Ed Howard, the very talented high school shortstop from outside of Chicago, whose bat is a little bit of a question, but he's a definite shortstop. And whatever the best college pitchers are to get there. It could be Cade Cavalli, although, frankly, if I redid the mock right now, I would have Cavalli going before their pick. And that could put them in a bit of a different spot if they believe that the next best pitching option after Cavalli maybe is substantially worse.

It's not bad, but if the 16th pick, you don't want to take somebody who's maybe 25th on your own board. There's also a bit of a wild card, just the way that things are shaping up, especially if Cavalli ends up jumping maybe as high as the ninth overall pick. Maybe that pushes the college bat down. Maybe someone like Heston Kirstad, who's now a fielder from the University of Arkansas, or catcher Patrick Bailey of North Carolina State. Maybe one of those guys ends up at pick 16, even though they probably shouldn't.

They're probably better than that. But it only takes one or two teams to reach a little bit for a player they particularly value to push somebody else down. So when I say the Phillies, I feel like they're wide open. I do. Other than high school arms, I think they could take any kind of player, and I feel like their mix is still pretty broad, in large part because we don't really know exactly who's going to get

to them. Well, Keith, you burst my bubble a little bit. I'm a big Nick Bitsko guy. I love Nick Bitsko, and I've been campaigning for them to draft them. I understand the local thing, but I would be ecstatic if they drafted them, but unfortunately... So let me ask you why.

Because I think the fastball is elite. The first time I saw it, I was like, oh, that thing jumps, and that's going to be hard to square up. And then you see the Rapsodo stuff the other day where it's like, what, 99 spin efficiency. I love the fastball. I love the mechanics. I love the 6'4", 220, and he's pretty shredded for that.

So when I saw him, I thought he had a pretty good feel for the off-speed. I thought he could spin it. And then once he kind of gets more involved with the technology, I thought he kind of developed more spin on the slider curve ball. So I was, I'm just big on that stuff. Um, when you're looking at a 17 year old, I mean, in 2021, I kind of thought he was going to go top five ish. So I think getting him a year early and, uh, and that, like, I was just, I was just kind

of in on that thought process. Uh, that's just my unexperienced eye well so there's two two sort of counter arguments there one is nobody's really seen it right i know he's posted some videos i mean it's like the kid in texas who posted a video of himself throwing 105 right real right do it on a mound in a game and i'll take it much more seriously um and do it and show me that you can do that over the course of, like, throwing it 80 pitches, which is even a short outing, but still a real outing as opposed to sort of these highly optimized

conditions, indoors, no batter. We don't know how high the mound is. You know, you don't have to do that 50 times. You can do it twice. You do it once and post that video. But also just um high school pitchers in the first round are a terrible bet it's the absolutely the worst of the four sort of major buckets of players college hitters college pitchers high school hitters high school pitchers

high school pitchers are the worst bet of all they they fail to reach the majors they fail to to post significant values in the majors at a much higher rate than any of the other three categories. Now, if we got to the point in this draft where it was pretty clear that the best player available was going to be a high school pitcher, and I actually have Nick Abel from Oregon ranked higher than any other high school pitcher in the draft,

I'd say, okay, you might open it up, but pick 16 in this draft, and what is a particularly strong college draft, I really think you can do better. I think the Phillies specifically can do better. I don't know who it'll be exactly, but somebody who's better than any of the high school pitchers is going to be available at their pick.

Got it. So one of the guys that has been linked to the Phillies a lot, and I was a little surprised at where you had him in your top, in your big board the other day, you had him at 39 was garrett crochet why were you uh why are you pretty low on garrett well i'll be honest i think i got it right garrett crochet threw three innings this year he seems like a problem yeah he is and there are differing reasons on why he only threw three innings this year he did not pitch the first three

weekends he made a single unannounced relief appearance he threw 3.2 innings only six scouts were there no cross checkers no national guys because nobody knew he was supposed to pitch he throws very hard it's a 70 fastball and it is a 70 slider he doesn't have a third pitch he has he got obliterated by right-handed pitching last sorry by right-handed pitching last, sorry, by right-handed hitting last year. He does not have a great history of command. And there's some question over, I don't know if it was health or what it was, but he didn't pitch the first three weekends this year. So he's barely been scouted and he's probably a reliever. And if you're probably a reliever, you're kind of not a first rounder. You shouldn't be taking a guy who you think there's a better

than certainly better than 50% chance. If you, if you think there's a better than, certainly better than 50% chance, even if you think I would say there's a 40% chance a guy's a reliever, probably not taking him in the first round. He's just not going to provide enough value to justify the pick, especially not in a year where, again, there's a lot of college pitching. You sort of pick your poison. You want a command guy, you want a power guy.

There's a lot of college starting pitching here. But to take a guy like that who didn't make a start this spring and has lots of question marks from the arsenal to why didn't he pitch the first three weekends, to me, way too much risk to consider at the 16th pick. He may still go in the first round. I personally wouldn't do it. Obviously, you mocked Cade Cavalli to the Phillies. Now, when you look at him, you see the stuff, right?

I mean, it's power stuff, power everything. Are you worried at all about him getting hit around? I mean, his ERA was in the 4-4s. I know it was obviously a shortened season. But is there concern about guys being able to square him up? A little bit. There's concern that he didn't necessarily miss bats at the rate you would expect given the quality of the stuff.

However, he spent his freshman year, he was also trying to be a pretty close to full-time position player. His sophomore year, he was still hitting pretty frequently, not really playing a position. So there's a pretty strong thought across the industry that just getting him into pro ball and having him focus exclusively on pitching will lead to more development because the pure stuff is very, very good. And he's a really good athlete that you'll see more development from him in

pro ball than you would typically see from a 21 year old college product. It's rare to get a guy like that, where it's kind of raw material is a little too extreme, but he's along those lines. He's physically developed like a 21-year-old. He's had some success in college, but he's also got upside that you don't often see in college pitching, a little bit more akin to maybe a junior college pitcher where you're just counting on age.

In his case, it's not so much youth as it is inexperience and the lack of time focusing exclusively on the craft of pitching. I guess this is a bit of a two-part question, I guess. Do you believe that the health stuff is getting a little bit overblown with Garrett Mitchell? And just kind of a player comp-wise, to me, kind of looks a little bit Jacoby Ellsbury-ish. And now you obviously scouted Jacoby Ellsbury. Did you think that Garrett was a better overall draft prospect than Ellsbury when he was coming out?

I think Ellsbury was the last draft before I went to ESPN. Or maybe he was in a draft before that. So I don't have a public ranking I can point back to. Whatever it was, I was with the Blue Jays that spring, and he was not in our mix either, whatever year it was. So I saw him, and I thought he was a good player, but I couldn't tell you exactly how I had rated him. I can tell you in Mitchell's case,

despite the fact that he has a type 1 diabetic, and I've mentioned that because every single team brings that up when I talk about Garrett Mitchell what do you got on Garrett Mitchell well he's diabetic we don't know what to do with that I don't know that there's a current major league position player who has type 1 diabetes we've had pitchers who have but of course they have time off to deal with if there are any complications flip side is maybe we're all overreacting to this and there's no issue at all. I've ranked Mitchell 12th, I think, in this draft. I think I ranked him pretty high because I see an 80 runner who could probably be a 70 defender and center.

And he's got a pretty good track record of hitting. If I have a big question about Mitchell, it's actually not at all enough diabetes, which I just sort of say, here it is. I don't know what to do with this. I'm not going to give him extra points. I'm not going to deduct points for something that i just don't know how to evaluate i can tell you i don't really love the way his hands work at the plate i do think someone's going to have to do a little bit of work on his swing not to try to get him to be a power hitter that's not what he's going to be and if when you talk about jacoby jacoby ellsbury if you're

talking about young jacoby ellsbury before he had that weird power surge, yeah, I could buy that a lot more. I think Mitchell could absolutely be that kind of hitter with a little swing help. That's the one thing. If I felt better about how his hands worked at the plate, I'd probably have just put him in the top 10, even understanding that teams have this real trepidation about taking a type one diabetic with a first round pick. Do you think that Tyler Soderstrom's bat is good enough to make up for him not really having a position? Depends on where you're picking them, right? I have had him going 13th to his Giants, I think,

in every mock draft I've had so far. And I would still have him there if I wrote one tonight. Seems consistent. Yes. I keep hearing it again and again. Sometimes that's not true, but when I just hear the same thing repeatedly for weeks, I feel like I'd be a fool to just change it.

Exactly. I heard it again today. I think he's probably not worth the 13th pick in the draft if you believe he has no current position. He's played some third base. He's worked on his defense at third base because I think there's an understanding. He and his family, they get it.

He's probably not going out as a catcher. I know plenty of people who say this kid's going to hit. It's absolutely worth it. Just take the bat. You'll figure out the position later. I'm okay with that if you're picking maybe 25th. I feel like at 13 there's going to be something better available. The Giants do seem to have spent a lot of time on him.

They have been fairly focused on two or three kids the whole spring. And I don't know that that absolutely means they're taking Soderstrom, but I will at least give them credit for saying they've spent enough time on him that if he's their pick, they must believe they see something that maybe I don't. They think he's a better hitter than I think. They think he's going to have more power than I think. They think the swing's a little flat right now.

Or maybe they just believe he can go to third base and be fine. And I am just not willing to do that because I keep saying we don't know. We never got to see it this spring. Another guy you've been big on, I would say, a little bit more than the rest of the industry is Pete Crow Armstrong. And you've mentioned a lot about what he was doing before the high school season was cut short. Can you kind of share with our listeners what you were hearing from scouts

about him before the high school season was cut short? It's funny. I didn't see him good last summer, actually. So I'm kind of bad, but then their seasons, he played for Harvard Westlake, which produced Lucas Gilito, Max Freed, Jack Flaherty. So pretty good track record out of that school. I'd say so.

Yeah, Crow Armstrong apparently got a lot stronger this winter and was playing really well. He was hitting the ball harder, continued to run well. He may be the best defensive player in the draft class in terms of skills right now. He's certainly in the uppermost echelon of such players. You brought up Jacoby Ellsbury. I have heard Ellsbury as a comp for Crow Armstrong.

I love player comps because I think they can be a little bit misleading. And these two don't look very similar, but if you're just talking about maybe shape of production, I could absolutely believe that. Potential 70 defender, can really run. Not going to hit for huge power, but strong enough to hit to have some extra base power and make plenty of hard contact in the big leagues. I've had a couple of scouts

say Carl Armstrong is a bit like the fabled high school guy who's like a college player, because he's pretty advanced. He's got a high floor because of the defensive ability, and there's enough confidence in his ability to hit. Because he plays in Southern California, ability and there's enough confidence in his ability to hit because he plays in southern california faces really good competition in high school and did enough stuff that showcases particularly when he was with team usa at the end of last summer to give scott's scouts confidence in his hit tool interesting so uh this one this one's gonna be interesting but i i'm really curious to get your answer on it who would you rather have like long term would you rather have had ed howard or bryson stop i think ed howard um they're both sure short stops like i had never had an issue with stott's defense at all i think

stott's gonna have some trouble hitting then again ed's going to have some trouble hitting. Then again, Ed Howard might have some trouble hitting. I think you're betting a little bit long-term, you know, Stott was a college product. With college products, it's a little bit more what you see is what you get. Plenty of these guys do get better, but you've got less room and less time for improvement. With Howard, it's not a really advanced hit tool right now at all. He's an extremely good athlete.

He's going to be at least as good of a defender as Sott is, and I think you have time and athleticism on your side in terms of developing Howard. There's also a chance that someone takes Howard and he goes out in whatever rookie ball looks like last year, next year, that he's terrible. He really could. He played his high school baseball in suburban Chicago. That's not a lot of good competition. A few times we saw him against better competition over the summers. He wasn't great. So I fully acknowledge that there's more risk there.

But I would probably roll the dice on the upside there where Stott, I thought, was a safer pick. We know what he is. We know he can play defense. We know he's got some pop. But you're definitely hoping that the bat plays. So you wouldn't have any reservations about like the Phillies taking him at taking Ed Howard at 15, even though they took stock the year before. No, so three years apart, actually, I guess that four years apart, right? Cause Scott would be 22 at this point and Howard is 18. So they're really not going to interfere with each other. In general, I would even say take the best player available unless you actually thought you were really going to have an immediate conflict you know would i take two college catchers back-to-back years in

the first round i might have some pause because you're just not going to have the playing time available for those guys unfortunately you know you can't trade picks if you could trade picks that'd be that'd be easy um And if you told me that they were looking at a college shortstop who was probably going to need to go to whatever level Stott played that next year, I might think twice about it. I would hate to walk away from the best player available just for that reason. But in this case, I don't think these two would ever really be playing at the same level. Stott's going to be in the big leagues before Howard is a double A. Interesting.

Hey, Keith, what do you know about Brian Barber? Obviously he's new here, our new scouting director. What have you heard about him in the circles that you work with? I have known Brian just from being out on the road for a very long time, and yet I would not say I know anything about his individual scouting philosophy. The Phillies were absolutely thrilled when they hired him. He comes from Yankees who have long had, one, they've had, I think, good success in the draft, particularly after the first round,

and they were one of the first teams to pretty fully integrate what was coming out of the R&D department with their amateur scouting process. And so they would still go for tools. They still swung the fences a bit on some high ceiling athletes, but would also mix in some guys where you could see the fingerprints of R&D. The scouts liked guys, but then R&D had also kind of given their seal of approval or maybe pushed and said, let's give this guy a second look because maybe he's got an exceptional spin rate on his fastball.

There's a lot of speculation, too. The Yankees favor guys not just with high-spin fastballs, but with certain types of fastballs that other teams weren't really zeroing in on. And I think the Phillies were also thinking, look, the Yankees are doing stuff in the draft that we're not. Let's try to get some of that and get a guy who we also believe in his ability to run a scouting staff stepping back from the draft and draft late except for a quick uh question um keith uh be remiss uh having you on to not get your thoughts i know you can follow

keith on twitter at keith all you've talked about a bit on twitter here and there but um thoughts about what's going on right now with with the sport we love and the dispute between the players and the owners going on obviously at the uh worst possible time um what are your general thoughts on where that is at right now obviously the the new proposal today that's a step back according to players and all that where are you at right now with the whole labor dispute going on right now it is a step back i don't think the owners are really being serious enough with their proposals i side almost entirely with the players in this. They're the ones who assume all the risk. The owners can sit at home. The owners can put on a Major League Baseball season

and never leave the house. The players are the ones who actually have to go out and be exposed to other people. And I look at the COVID-19 data pretty frequently. The R0, the infection rate in Arizona is 1.15. Their cases are going to keep growing out there. If Major League Baseball thinks they're going to send a few hundred players and associated staff out to Arizona for some kind of abbreviated spring training and no one's going to get sick, they're kind of delusional. And so players are absolutely right to say,

we're not going out to play games and then take a lot less money than you originally told us you'd pay us, agreed to pay us, back in March. If Major League Baseball wants to just push through a 50-game season where they're paying players the prorated salaries, that's a better option for the players than anything else Major League Baseball has proposed since then. They think MLB is hoping that public pressure will push the players to cave.

And I personally hope the players don't cave. I don't think that's good for the sport for them to do so. And I do think most of what the owners are proposing really puts an unfair burden on the players who, as I said, really bear all of the physical risk in this scenario. Hey, Keith, a quick question for you. Who between rounds three through five, I would say, are some kind of your favorite guys, like your guys in rounds three through five i would say are some kind

of your favorite guys like your guys in in rounds three through five that could be there for the fills um honestly i couldn't tell you i couldn't tell you which guys are still going to be available at that point because i don't really focus much on fundability so i've put up a top 100 for any for anyone who subscribes to the athletic you can go there and take a look at the list but i don't know which guys are going to go where. So there may be a guy who I've ranked 40th or 45th who's still there in the third round. That would make him a great pick.

It might also make him unsignable because he may think he's getting first or second round money. So it's really going to come down to what do teams do in terms of, especially in the second round, do they continue to go for guys at slot or do they try to maybe cut deals, maybe some better players start to slip into the third round and benefit any teams that still have some money left? I'm on Twitter, at Keith Law on Twitter,

his book, The Inside Game, and of course, theathletic.com for his work. Keith, thank you so much, man. You seriously, we really appreciate the time. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. That was a lot of fun. keith thank you so much man you seriously we really appreciate the time my pleasure thanks for having me that was a lot of fun uh thanks again to keith law coming on jack i enjoyed you and keith getting into it a little bit there a little back and forth over bits go yeah i hurt my feelings i mean i liked it and then he's like well what do you think man and you're like here's

what i think bro it was good yeah well i mean i i didn't want to come across as as rude i just uh i have my thoughts on the man the man was kind enough to give us 20 whatever minutes of his time we appreciate it yeah i just i just uh i just had some thought i i just i love nick betz i always have my guy that i'm all in on and this year it happens to be him um like i just i don't buy the notion like i understand he was very very confident that they weren't going to take him and uh listen i get that uh i hope he's wrong i'm not saying he is wrong i'm not saying that i think he's wrong i just hope that he's wrong um because i just i think it's a slam dunk pick and i know betting

on high school players is is never great great, especially high school pitchers. But, like, dude, not every high school pitcher is bad. I mean, like, it happens all the time where you get legitimate talents out of the high school ranks. So I wouldn't be afraid of him because he's a high school pitcher or because he's from here. Like, I don't think that matters that much. It doesn't matter to me.

I mean, I guess maybe in scouting circles it matters. That's not something that I factor in. He could be from freaking Arkansas, but if he has that fastball, I don't care. That's a fastball that plays. He's a 6'4". Well, yeah, for what it's worth, I thought you made a good argument. As someone who has seen so little of Nick Bitsko comparatively. You and everyone else, pal.

Did some polite research over the weekend. You sold me. I believed your argument over his. I thought you did a good job. Well, thanks. Yeah, I just love him. I think he's going to... I said it last podcast.

I think he's been a Hall of Famer. But he just reminds me... Should I have dropped that on Keith? You think he would have liked the... I think he's a hall of famer but he just reminds me should i should i drop that on keith you think he would have liked the uh i think he's a hall of famer it would have been like am i being punked is this a real podcast what's happening yeah yeah so it's fine i i personally think it'd be a mistake to pass on them um i i i just i i think that the first time i was just reading the the roy halliday book by Todd Zielecki. And it's phenomenal, by the way.

I don't ever read, but I'm halfway through it, and I can't really put it down. It's an awesome read. But Pat Gillick said in that that the first time you see a guy, you generally know if you like him or not. And I'm not comparing myself to Pat Gillick. Oh, one of the great general managers in the history of baseball. Yeah, might be in the Hall of Fame. Might be in the hall of fame, might not be in the hall of fame, but he said that the

first time you see a guy like that's really what you believe. And the first time I saw Nick Bitsko, I was like, that's a Max Scherzer fastball. That's a fastball that like, you know, the difference between Max Scherzer's fastball and a lot of guys fastball, like it has that extra little giddy up at the end. And for him to do that at 17, think is ridiculous and you know the fact that if he goes in next year's draft he's probably a top five pick and you're getting him a year earlier at 15 because no one saw him like I legitimately think that if if if he was actually able to be scouted this summer he's a top 10 lock pick and he'd be talking about him like Mackenzie Gore was talked about a couple years ago but we have not taken Mackenzie Gore if he's from here?

Like, I think that's ridiculous. So I think I would be all in on Nick Betts go, James, I can't freaking wait for Wednesday. I know this is going to sound weird, but I had a dream about the Phillies. Whenever you say, I feel like whenever you say on the High Ups podcast, I had a dream, it's always weird. It always goes in a weird direction. All I'm saying is that I had a dream that the Phillies drafted Nick Bitsko, and for some reason I was at a bar, even though I know he can't be at bars,

Angelo Cataldi was there. I don't know why. Yep, there's a weird one already. I don't know why he was there, but I was doing fist pumps around the bar, all fired up about getting Nick Bitsko. The Phillies drafting Nick Bitsko, of the ranked in importance in the last year and a half, we'll go one Harper, we'll go two JT, we'll go 3-0 chart, four Nick Bitsko. Four drafting Nick Fitzgerald.

Five hiring Joe Girardi. How's that? Where's Brian Barber in there? Barber's six. Actually, I would say Barber's five, Girardi's six. Sorry, Joe. I'm very sorry. But anytime you can draft an absolute horse ace at the 15th overall pick,

I think you got to do it. Yeah, that was fun, too too it's rare that i could just sit back and just say like all right jack you and keith talk i wish i had something i could have done for that like 20 minutes it was good i thought it was your best performance on a podcast yeah all right so what else you got do you have any other draft guys we haven't hit on yet um yeah so uh today on the website i wrote my five favorite guys for 15, like the guys who I'd be all in on, would be happy with the Phillies taking. So my five guys were Bits Go One,

and the one thing that we didn't really get into last podcast, I guess, because since then he's put out these Rapsodo videos with the data after them, Since then, he's put out these Rapsodo videos with the data after them. And, dude, fastball is up to 98.5 miles an hour with a spin efficiency of 99%. Kylie McDaniel wrote that that's directly comparable to Justin Verlander. Like, the freaking kid is 17 years old, and he's got a fastball that's already comparable to Justin Verlander, like get out of here. And you know, the other thing that's really starting to bother me is the freaking like, well, we drafted Jesse Biddle, so we can't draft Nick Bitsko.

Like, okay, sure. Let's pass on the next Max Scherzer because eight years ago we took Jesse Biddle in the first freaking round. You know who else was in the first round, James? That's from here. Mike Trout. Mike Trout. Mike Trout. Okay, well, we passed on freaking Mike Trout because he's from here.

Get the – out of here. Like, seriously. Okay, ew. Get out of here. Can't draft local kids because, you know, God forbid, they turn out to be the best center fielder of all time. Yeah. Anyway.

Well, not the best center fielder of all time, but a very good one. Whatever. Whatever. Like the whole, whatever. Willie Mays was not from Millville, New Jersey. Hey, do you think the Willie Mays over-the-shoulder catch is overrated? That's a great take. Probably not just because of the dimensions of the polo ground i don't think people realize how vast

it was there and how much ground he had to cover while also tracking the ball like that so i would say probably not but it's in the situation but i like the take do you think it was oh yeah i can't tell which is more of a right of that of the jeter flip or just about every jeter moment in his career a little slap single to right field to walk off yankee stadium get out of here it's a joke i love how you took a willie mays comment as a way to throw some jabs at jeter it's classic jack fritz oh well sorry i was uh subjected to 64 straight hours of derrick jeter programming on mlb network. All right. Bits go one. Bits goes one. So bits goes one.

You keep getting distracted. Bits goes one. Bits goes the guy that we're going streaking. You get so fired up about the draft, you can't even think coherently. I love it. Yeah. Bits goes one. Bits goes the guy that we are doing fist pumps about and we're just getting fired up for.

I'm already planning on doing a little Periscope stream, so I'll be on. Bits goes the one that's going to send me into an absolute frenzy. Now, my number two is Garrett Mitchell. Garrett Mitchell should not be there for the Phillies at 15, but it seems like he might be there given the concerns about his health. And you kind of heard Keith. We're both on the same page. Like, listen, sure, he has type 1 diabetes, but the guy's a stud.

Like, Garrett Mitchell, when the season shut down, was projected to be a top six pick. And nothing's changed. I mean, besides, like, the diabetes stuff came out. But so what? Like, I watch him. I watch him when I see Jacoby Ellsbury. Not the 32-year-old, 32 home run year that he had. But the Jacoby Ellsbury, those 10 to 15 home or 10 to 15 home runs and like 30 stolen bases.

Like reminds me of that. It was like 60 or whatever. But baseball has changed since then. So we'll, we'll put it in this, in the 30 category or like a Brett Gardner type. Like it reminds me a little bit of, of, of Gardner, but can play center field. So if he's there at 15, I think the Phillies will take them. And I think they should be happy with that. I think there's a, there's a legitimate, legitimate player in there that I think is the top six pick in the draft.

I just think teams are a little bit too concerned about the health stuff. Number three for me is Ed Howard. I freaking love Ed Howard, and I like Stott, too. But you said it earlier when we were talking about it, and I will always take a shortstop whenever I can get him, especially because Howard's 18, Stott's 22, going to be 23. When he reaches the big leagues, probably 24, 25. And I like Bryson Stott. I'm not sure what the offensive upside is.

But I think as Ed Howard fills out, I think there's a chance for a plus defender and a plus bat. So to pass on that, I think, would be a mistake. And I just, you know, I think Ed Howard can play major league shortstop almost immediately. And then hopefully the bat comes along with it. But I just love everything about Ed Howard. I think he's going to be a superstar.

Four for me is Garrett Crochet. Oh! You talked about him a little bit earlier. Look at that. We are, like, mind-melded. I know. It's probably bad. earlier um we are like mind melded i know it's it's probably bad but you know i just think that he he obviously only threw three and a half innings this year and the injury stuff's there i mean his

he throws 100 from the left side with kind of funky mechanics that usually doesn't end up well um but i just think that if you're at 15 he he might be a reliever, which is fine. Because, like, given how important relievers are now, it's like that's not really a disaster. He could easily be a three inning, you know, kind of shut it down in the middle of the middle of the game kind of guy. So I like crochet a lot. I mean, anytime you can get 99 to 100 with a wipeout slider, it's hard not to take them. And I'm a little bit more bullish on Crochet's changeup than Keith was. I think he has a decent, at least he has a somewhat feel for it. I don't think it's

a nasty pitch, but if you can go 99 and then break off like an 86 mile an hour changeup, I mean, that's hard to kind of square up consistently. And then for me, number five, I have Tyler Soderstrom. You heard Keith. I mean, he pretty much pegged him in for the number 13 pick and seems like he could definitely go before the Phillies. But it just looks like when I watch – every time I watch Tyler Soderstrom, the guy just squared up the baseball consistently. And if you're looking to project high school players,

squaring up the baseball is really all that matters at this point. Hopefully they can gain more power. high school players squaring up the baseball is really all that matters at this point hopefully they can gain more power power but if you can consistently square up the baseball in high school i'll take that shot on you i think the bat's legit enough that like he was a catcher in high school but he didn't even start on his high school team uh because i guess the the starting catcher was a stud so he projects to be like a third baseman outfield type but um those are my five uh i like kate cavalli a little bit but i'm worried about i'm obviously worried about the like he gets hit around that he has nasty stuff but he gets hit around it's kind of it's kind of like pivetta

um which is not exactly the best thing you want to hear when when talking about comps but i don't think we need another petta. Sorry, Josh. I just think there's a lot of talent that the Phillies are going to be able to get at 15. I feel good about their ability to walk away with a guy that you can dream on. I think the prep talent's really, really legit.

The only ones I would be pretty upset about would be Pete Crowe or Armstrong. I know Keith talked about him, but I don't think he can hit. I don't want Patrick Bailey at all. He's catcher from NC State who actually think looks like a good prospect but I just think that if they take a catcher it almost signals the end of JT Romito especially if you're if you're drafting a uh like a college catcher that's college catcher yeah that's 21 or 22 years old so like if they take bailey or or they take um uh dylan dingler from ohio state like i'm just gonna you're never gonna hear me on this podcast again like i would just be

dylan dangler's a horrendous name yeah it's a really bad name it's a rough one dylan dongler yeah it's too well i wasn't gonna go there but yes that was what i was thinking as well what a loser um yeah it's a tough one yeah one. Yeah, we have the ability to change that if they do draft him. He will not be Dylan Donner. He will be Double D. Yeah. And then the last thing, I'm not in on Austin Hendrick. You know, a lot of people like him.

I don't think he – I personally think he stinks. Like, I can obviously change this if they draft him. And given that I just said I think he stinks, they'll probably change this if they draft him and given that i just said i think he stinks um they'll probably draft him oh no they'll definitely draft him i'm just not a fan like i think i think that the power is legit obviously i mean he has he has pretty quick hands but every time i watched him it looks he couldn't catch up to a fastball on the inside part of the plate and i just uh yeah that that was not one of my favorite things. So, really, you know, I'd be happy with six guys at 15 and only really upset with about four.

And if they draft Bitsco, join the party. I mean, it's such a no-brainer. I hope they take him. I try not to think about it a lot because I start to get sad if they don't take them. But, I don't know. I still feel good they're going to take them. Keith did dampen my spirit a little bit.

Just a little. But, as always, just power right through. I love it. Was this good for you? Did you get it all out? You feel good? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good for you? Did you get it all out? You feel good? Yeah, yeah. I'm good.

I'm just excited. I'm excited that me and you were on the same wavelength when it came to our guys. Beautiful thing. Bits go Howard. I don't know if you've watched Garrett Mitchell, but I think you'd like Garrett Mitchell. And, yeah, I'd be fine taking it Howard. Now I do want to, I do want to know, like, who are you, are you a Spencer Turkelson guy or are you an Austin Martin guy? Yeah, that's the question. Um, so here's the thing,

full disclosure. No, uh, I didn't do any research on like the top three guys. Cause I was like, well, they're not going to be there for the Phillies. It's not even worth me looking at them. But I just feel like, I mean, Austin Martin is such a better name than Spencer Torkelson. So I'll go with Martin over Torkelson. That's the correct opinion. Austin Martin. See?

Thank you. Austin Martin is going to be amazing. And then just one more general draft take is that Zach Veen, Zach Veen's the best player in this class. I don't care what anyone says. That guy is going to be another Hall of Famer from this class. Zach Veen looks like the next Yellich, I would say. This is like years building up to this this is the

most draft stuff ever oh yeah well and like dude you're you're not we didn't even talk about my guys in the third through fifth round no we're not going to i don't want to we'll talk about whoever the phillies draft how about that oh i can't wait i can't wait how are we gonna plan this out i know we're kind of doing this on the podcast so this seems like a bad. How are we going to plan this out? I know we're doing this on the podcast. This seems like a bad idea. Are we going Wednesday night right after the draft? No.

What? We're not going right after the draft? Oh my god. We'll see. Suck it up, Seltzer. Jesus. We got no other content to talk about yeah and then we'll do a short reaction bot or something listen fine i mean i'm gonna fire up a periscope and everyone

can join me there um that too we'll definitely we'll have something and then either way i mean i mean we'll have a full recap and I just want to get it out there, you know? The comps are going to be aggressive. The fifth round picks, I'm going to talk about the next Ryan Howard. You know, I can't wait. Maybe it'll be a solo pod. It'll be a Jack Fritz solo pod. No, no one likes a Jack Fritz.

I hate Jack Fritz solo pods. They're very annoying. All right, you got anything else? Draft week. No, no one likes a Jack. I hate Jack Reds. They're very annoying. Oh, all right. You got anything else? Draft week. I swear I'm the only person that cares, but whatever. Well, you know, if you're still listening right now, God bless you. And another perk.

If you want to enjoy the draft with some good beer, there's fresh high hops to be had at Four Fingers Brewing Company. So go out there, go out there, get some high hops, even though they're not going to be open during the draft or the second round of the draft. But for the post-draft podcast slash deep dive on YouTubes, have some high hops with it. There you go. I co-sign that.

Email us, thehighhopespod, at gmail.com. And enjoy the draft. Reach out to Jack when they draft Nick Bitsko because he's going to be pretty pumped about it. Let's all join in celebration together if they draft Nick Bitsko. He's Prince of Zalzer. We'll see you later.