High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Bumgarner? Hamels? Didi? Rumors Season is Back!

Episode Date: November 26, 2019

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back talking about the Phils and the start to their offseason and get into some names that have been linked to them.  See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is another edition of the High Hoax Podcast. Just when you need us the most, Philadelphia, we're here for you. Is there still a football team in Philadelphia? I don't think so, man. Not as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I mean, who really cares? Well, the funny thing is, as you know, as anyone listening knows, they went along with us for the journey.

It was a pretty frustrating baseball season. It's worse. The Eagles, worse. Carson Hoskins? It's worse. Carson Hoskins. Oh, my. Carson Knapp. Same thing? Is it the same thing? Carson Knapp. Knapp. Carson Hoskins? It's worse. Carson Hoskins. Oh, my. Carson Knapp.

Same thing? Is it the same thing? Carson Knapp. Knapp. You're going Knapp. Oh, man. Oh, it's over. It's not good.

You can't throw the Knapp name around and not expect consequences. That's true. Knapp's a little far. Knapp's a little far. It's a little much. Although, the way he played yesterday. Yesterday was a Knappian performance. It was the most Knappian.

Oh, man. Horrible. Who cares was the most nappy. Oh, man. Horrible. Who cares, though? Phillies. Oh, my God. Baseball. We got rumors. We got all kinds of...

I mean... We got maybe adding Madison Bumgarner super. I mean, granted, the Braves are, you know, like, out there actually making moves and stuff, but... Oh, come on. Listen, the Travis Darno contract is absurd. Will Smith. $8 million for Travis Darnot?

Travis Darnot was really good last year. He was fine. Here's the thing. He reeks of a guy who leaves Tampa Bay and just sucks. Terrible. Lock it in. Lock it in. I agree.

He's going to get hurt again. $8 million? The Will Smith contract was fair. I think that's a fine contract. I'm glad the Phillies didn't do it. The Chris Martin 2 for 14? Screw you, Matt Klentak. Where are you on the 2 forfor-14 for Chris Martin?

The whole co-play thing, we talked about this. They had the fourth lowest second half bullpen ERA in the bigs last year. You think they needed Chris Martin? Oh, my God. They got Mike Moran. Not anymore, actually. He's gone. Happy birthday to Sir Anthony Dominguez?

Please. Please. Please, man. Talk about a guy you'd need. Klintak did say, what, last week that he expects him to be ready for spring training, which is massive. And unexpected. And fingers crossed.

You know? Might last for a month. Totally expecting him to just throw a pitch, grab his forearm, and be like, well, that was fun. Time to get TJ now. Yeah. I'm worried. I'm trying not to think about it. And I could really use 2018 Sir Anthony Dominguez back in my life. Could I ever, Jack?

Oh, God. Imagine the thought of a guy going out there and you just know he's going to get outs for you. What a thought. What a thought. I mean, have they had that guy since 08 Bradledge? Since 18 Sir Anthony Dominguez. Or since 19 Jose Alvarez.

Oh, man. All right. I'm happy. I know. Let's get it. Because we are happy. We're bitching right now. I'm ecstatic.

I'm ecstatic. We're excited. I spend every day waiting for a new Phillies highlight thing to drop on YouTube. I just miss it. Every day I miss it. I miss the daily grind of like watching a game drop on YouTube. I just miss it. Every day I miss it. I miss the daily grind of watching a game, dissecting it. I miss having the Phillies on one TV and the package on the other and just baseball package, Jack.

Give me a face. The MLB package. Watch some baseball. Just all baseballed out. Yeah, I miss baseball. I always say we were ready for the season to be over because it was just horrible byed out. Yeah, I miss baseball. I really, I always say like, you know, we were ready for the season to be over because it was just horrible by the end. But I always miss it.

Immediately. It's like as soon as the playoffs happen, you're like, all right, let's go. I need this. You see the Nationals win the World Series, you're like, F that, let's go. Yeah, and I know what sucks is that like the market moves so slow.

Like with NBA and NFL, it's instantaneous. And that, in my opinion, is a huge flaw for Major League Baseball that it's an event for football. It's an event for basketball. People dominate the news cycle for a portion of time, whereas baseball is just this long, boring, drawn-out process, and then one day in march oh garrett cole signed great cool it's baseball starting yeah you don't see it coming it's it's

it's it they're missing an opportunity it should be it should be a thing it should be something where everyone is waiting for midnight or four o'clock or whatever on a certain day because you know oh this is happening this is happening this is. This guy's going here and the stuff leaks. And it's a day. It's a week. It's a news cycle that they just don't capitalize on. They don't. I mean, a lot of people didn't even know free agency had started. Well, it was four days in and I was like, wait, it started?

Yes. And what's interesting now is you don't see these moves coming because teams are announcing them. Like all of a sudden I know Chris Martin signed with the Braves. Yeah. And like Rosenthal's on it and then the guys are on it. Yasmany Grandel, White Sox. By the way, the fact that

$73 million is the highest contract they have ever given out. Oof. Must be fun to be a White Sox fan. The Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap cliche is a cliche for a reason. Yeah, you think he's excited to hand over $72 million? No. No, sure.

It certainly makes me feel, you know, better about John Middleton. But, yeah, it's been brutal. But, like, I did, it is nice getting back

into the rumor mill. Oh, it's great. Are you kidding me? Even Joel Sherman's crazy trade rumors I'm in on or crazy trade possibilities, whatever, all of it.

Yeah. All of it. And, like, people got really mad at it and it was just like, he's clear, I mean, he said it was not real. Yeah. All of it. And like, people got really mad at it. And it was just like. He's clear. I mean, he said it was not real. Yeah.

Like, he's just. And like, the fact of the matter is like, why would the, if the Cubs are trying to maximize Chris Pine's value, why are they pairing him with Jason Hayward? Yeah. And then bringing down the prospect value. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. It's ridiculous.

Yeah. I mean, Theo has no idea what he's doing, but. I love it. But it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world so all right well let's dive into it because there have been some phillies related rumors and you know gary cole will put that to the side for a second as that is sadly not been a name that's been linked enough to the phillies the phillies have been obviously connected to him for a while and and bits and pieces here and there but that's still that seems like it's

going to take a while uh uh recently john morossi says that one of Cole Hamels, Madison Baumgartner, or Zach Wheeler will be a Philly by the holidays. Was that the way he phrased it, Jack? Yeah, by New Year's. By the turn of the year. By New Year's, yeah. And, like, the Hamels thing is starting to worry me. Yeah, well, because of what the 14 teams interested is the story that's out there.

The 14 teams interested. In Jay Hatt money? Yeah. No. I'm not giving Cole Hamels that money. No, sir. No. Yeah.

Strong no. I'm not here for a Cole Hamels overpay to bring him home. Well, I mean, look, especially, we just did this with Jay Garriott. And granted home. Well, I mean, look, especially we just did this with Jake Arrieta. And granted, the whole thing is a different situation, but we just did this. We just, and granted, I think we've talked a lot about how Cole's different in the sense that he's aging well and he's learning how to pitch with less velocity and all that type of stuff. But I can't be on the back end of another Arrieta contract.

That's where I'm at, Jack. Well, the good thing is, is that there's the left-handed Jake Arrieta available in Madison Baumgartner. Okay, so let's get into Baumgartner because that has been a name that has been attached to the Phillies aggressively, and I think it's someone that the general

average Phillies fan, obviously not the one listening to this pod or whatever, would be really excited. Would say, whoa, we got that guy. And if we got Madison Baumgartner, I would be excited. Yeah, I think I'm more in on it than you. For me personally, I don't love how much it will probably cost to get Baumgartner. Correct. But I do believe Baumgartner will age well.

I think he'll figure it out. I know he's going through some growing pains with the loss of velocity and learning how to pitch that way, but he's smart. He's a horse. I think he'll figure it out. But, again, I think you're paying more for past performance than future performance, which is, again, what happened with Arrieta. The same thing happened. It feels like the same exact thing that happened with Arrieta.

And so Bumgarner just scared me from the point that, like, his home ERA was, like, 2-9-3, and his road ERA was like 5-2-3. Not good. And that's one of the best pitchers' parks in baseball. For sure. And I was watching them last year. I try to watch a good amount of Bumgarner because I thought they might trade from the deadline. And it was like some balls just would have been just yard at Citizens Bank Park

that just stayed into, what, Oracle now? It's Oracle Park. Ever since Pac-Bell, I've just. I was in on AT It's Oracle Park? Ever since Pac-Bell, I've just. I was in on AT&T. Yeah, it's Pac-Bell to me, forever.

It's so old of you. Who are you talking to? But like, Bumgarner, like the road thing, it annoys me how people are like, well, he's technically 29,

so he's not that old. He also has like, 1900 innings on his arm. Yeah. Like, he's not a fresh arm. You can't 1900 innings On his arm Yeah Like he's not a Fresh arm You can't just say Because of his age That's why

Like he could still age well Like his His stuff is going down Now His Like his slider Was really good last year Like some of his

Secondary stuff was good His fastball stuff Wasn't great It depends on the money For me And I do think He could win you Big games down the stretch

Yeah look I mean, regardless of road, homespits, whatever, you still trust Madison Baumgartner to take the ball to big game. Yeah, and he is an innings eater, right? Like, I mean, he pitched a 30... Which they said was part of the quote that the Phillies wanted an innings eater.

It's like, great. Yeah. Cool. I mean, he he took, he pitched his second most innings in the NL last year or last year. So he can still do that. And the injuries that he've had have been freak injuries. Like he had the go-kart thing or whatever, the four-wheeler thing. He hasn't, he hasn't had the type of injuries that make you think, oh man, that worries me long term. Yeah.

But it's, it's for me, it's like, I don't know what the contract's going to be. You're definitely paying for past performance. The road numbers are horrendous. Like, it's just, I don't know. I'm already dreading the Madison Bumgarner, you know, signing. You'll talk yourself into it a minute after it's announced. Of course I will.

Yeah. That's what I do best. And he rakes. He rakes. That's fun. He does rake. It's fun. But, yeah, I don't know.

I would rather have Zach Wheeler for 500 than whatever the Madison Bumgarner deal is. Okay, talk that out because that's the other name we're going to get to there. And I think most general, going back to the casual or just average Phillies fan, would probably prefer Bumgarner because they know him better. Obviously, the age is a difference. Wheeler a different type of pitcher. Why do you say you want Wheeler more than Bumgarner? Well because I think there's still untapped potential

to Zach Wheeler and I think his second half in the last couple years have been really really good. And I know he does have the injury concern which you don't really feel with Bumgarner but also I mean I think Wheeler's arm is just fresher. I mean he averaged the hardest fastball in the league last year. Wow, so he's not going to be a Philly is what you're saying.

Yeah, right, throws too hard. Dude, throws way too hard. Throws way too hard. So, like, and I think he has a nice, you know, five pitch mix. Like, I don't know, I don't trust, like, five years is a hundred plus million for Zach Wheeler does terrify me. It scares the crap out of me. But at least I think there's upside there to where, like, Bumgarner.

So, yeah, I see what you're saying. Like, Bumgarner is going to be either at the level he was last year or only get worse. I don't think there's another level to Madsen Bumgarner. So the Wheeler contract could theoretically, it could go real bad, obviously, with injuries and stuff, but at least has the potential to be a home run type contract. Whereas Bumgarner, best case, he lives up to his contract. Best case. Best case.

Yeah. Best case. Now, Bumgarner will be less years he lives up to his contract. Best case. Best case. Yeah. Best case. Now, Bumgarner will be less years, I would think. You would assume. So, but I just think with Wheeler, like, you have the 99, you have legit stuff. I do think that Brian Price will help him get back to using the splitter a lot. So, I just think Wheeler has a chance of working out. And I just, Bumg a chance of working out and I just Baumgartner

it's like it's either at a level he was or it's only turning down whereas I think there's another level to Wheeler alright rank the three assuming that Hamels gets

maybe not quite J-Hat money but somewhere closer to J-Hat money than what we were talking about wanting him at you know the two for

twenty something or whatever well it's only two years which obviously helps him for sure a little bit but he's gonna be 38 at the end of that contract and he got hurt last year yeah and so i would probably go wheeler bum garner hamels yeah if that's the case i think that's probably the same you know order i would have i'm a little closer bum garner to Wheeler than you, but I really agree with your analysis. I think that if they're going to go for a guy like this,

you may as well go for someone who at least has a chance to be a one or a two for you, theoretically, in a best-case world, whereas Bumgarner, I think, is past that time where he could be that type of dominant pitcher. I do love the idea of, if you do get to the playoffs, the idea of having the ability to hand the ball to a guy like Madison Bumgarner with his track record, but I agree with you.

I think ultimately that's the way that I would order them. But, I mean, we'll get into what you think will happen, but where are you at with Garrett Cole in relation to this? Do you still feel some hope about Garrett Cole? Is there any chance that they would sign a Wheeler-Bumgarner type guy and a Cole in your mind? How does this play out for you if

the assumption that one of these three guys and potentially one of those two bigger dollar arms is going to be on the Phillies? I think the Cole thing is I don't think they're going to sign Garrett Cole. That's the, I don't. I think the Cole thing is, I don't think they're going to sign Gary Cole. That's the feeling I get too. Yeah.

I want them to, I just, doesn't feel like it. And the thing with Salisbury saying that if his market falls apart or whatever, then the Phillies could jump in. Right. Which is so unlikely.

They want to sign him at a discount or whatever, or not a discount, but not for 300 million. I think they'd sign him for 220 or something, but I don't think they want to go to the crazy process. And to be fair, last year we were all over the Harper

numbers and saying that's a good deal, it's a fair deal. I think $300 million for Garrett Cole is too much money. It's a lot. If he ends up with that, I'd be out on that too. Because we're talking $300 million probably over six or seven years or something like that. It's not going to be a 10, 11, 12 year contract. He's a pitcher.'s a pitcher right i think they for some i get why they're doing it but it feels like they're going to sauce season like they want to get a bunch of dudes

rather than a dude right like last year they got bryce harper as the dude their next franchise player whatever this year it feels like they want to get you know a wheeler like a bunch of starters and then like a couple like like more players rather than one. Quantity over quality in a way. Whereas with the call market, it seems like the Angels are pretty motivated to get him and finally put some players around Mike Trout. But what's annoying about that is like,

they just handed Mike Trout 400 plus million. They're going to hand Garrett Cole whatever. I mean, they've done that before. They did the Pools thing, the Hamilton thing, and it's amazing that they're willing. Sean Figg Hamilton thing, and it's amazing that they're willing. Sean Figgins? Well, it's amazing that they're willing to do it again because it has backfired on them time and time again.

But, you know. Has it ever worked out for them? No. Well, I mean, Trout probably will because he's like Trout. Well, no, no, but like dipping into the free agent market and signing the guy. No, certainly not the high level guys like that. Oh, Tommy's worked out.

So far, kind of. I mean, he missed a year with Tommy John Surge. I know he came back and hit some, and he's a much better bat than I expected. So, same. And I think if you're the Yankees, I just think you're like, he's it. That's the only thing that's really holding you.

That moves the needle for us. Right. Because everything else they're loaded at. And if they get Garrett Cole, it's like, oh, we can have Pax in the NBA game, two starter. You have Tanaka. And Severino. If anything happens, it's like, oh, we can have Pax in the NBA game, two starter. You have Tanaka. And Severino. If anything happens, it's just a bonus in that case.

So if you can just add Garrett Cole, it's like we didn't really enter in the Manny Machado market. We didn't enter in the Bryce Harper market. The Yankees, if they don't go after him, it's embarrassing at this point. I agree with you. To be the Yankees and not go after Garrett freaking Cole and be the next Scherzer of the free agent market? Like, that's crazy. Yeah. It's bad for the sport, actually. I am with you.

I think they need to go in on him. And look, if the Yankees want a guy, ultimately, at least, you know, I know it's changed with, you know, George dying and all that stuff. But, I mean, if they want a guy, they can get him. Yeah. I almost think that Strasburg's more realistic than Cole. Well, that was going to be my next question. What do you think about Strasburg? Do you think he's going to leave

Washington? What type of deal? Also, how does this play in with the whole Salisbury talking about Boris wanting to funnel people here? Do something with that. Do you think that it's just going to be a case of Middleton not wanting to pay what it takes? It's tough. I don't know.

I just hope that the luxury tax thing seems like it's tough. I don't know. I don't know. I just hope that, like the luxury tax thing, it seems like it's really a thing. I mean, it's been written about by all the beat writers about how they don't want to go over if it's not worth it or whatnot. And I think that they would go over it if it's for a Garrett Cole,

if it's for Strasburg, if it's for Rendon. They would do that if the market fell to them and they could do it. It's just my thing with the luxury tax is that it's... They're like, I don't know, $35 million under it right now, whatever, 28.

But if they non-tender Cesar and Franco gets above 45, which... Yeah, 44 was the number I saw as realistic if that happened. Okay. And it seems like they're going to non-tender Cesar and they're going to non-tender Michael Franco, which I can't believe that we're at this point with Cesar where you could have traded him two years ago and gotten some for him. And now we're just going to let him go. Yep. Um,

which is, you know, good GMing as always. Um, and just letting King replay second base, but that's a novel concept. Um, um,

yeah. Um, but like, like with the, so they might have like 40, whatever open after the non-tender, those guys. Uh,

and then if you sign the, and then after next year, Robertson comes off the books, Arrieta comes off the books. So they might have like 40 whatever open after they non-tender those guys. And then after next year, Robertson comes off the books, Arrieta comes off the books, and I think Oduble comes off the books definitively. So that opens up 42 more million dollars. Even if you go over it this year, which if you go over it by like, I think if you go over it by 10 million dollars, you're only paying a million dollars in taxes. You can reset the year after. Then you can reset it with the with getting all them they cannot be afraid of the luxury tax well especially

look it's the situation they're in they they absolutely can't they have no help coming i mean they need to we've talked about this a million times but they don't have a bunch of young players who can come up and supplement at cheap prices they just don't they're gonna have to pay hoskin soon if they keep them around they They don't have a choice. If they really want to compete, it might just be all lip service. It might all be BS and they just want to,

you know, that they want to have a solid product but that they're not really going to go above and beyond to bring a trophy home to Philadelphia. If they're going to go above and beyond and their motivation is to win now, they have to.

They don't have a choice. Yeah. I mean, they have way too many holes and not enough options internally to fill them. They have to outspend their problem. They have to. That's it. Your only advantage in the NL East right now is money. Yeah.

It's your only advantage. It's it. It's it. And if the Wilpons ever got their crap together, it wouldn't be anymore. Yeah. I mean, you always have it over the Braves. You always have it over the Nationals. You always have it over the Nationals. You always have it

over the Marlins, obviously, non-factor anyway. Right. But the Mets, theoretically at least, and granted, it's been a long time and I don't

see the Wilpons changing or anything like that, but I mean, at least they theoretically could have the ability to spend like you if they wanted to. Yeah.

So, if your only thing that you have over teams is spending money and you don't have the, like you have Bowman Howard, which you hope are, you know, impact players at the next level. Like you don't have, they don't really have a choice.

And like when you, when you trade, when you trade for JT Romito, trade 6-0 for him. Sign Bryce Harper. And you know you're gonna have to pay JT in a year. Like you don't have a choice but to go for it. Like their, their, their core at next season is going to be no one's going to be 27 playing next year 27 harper harper 27 hoskins 27 real muto 29 yeah like your core is in their prime is in their prime king or you can play next year at 26 years old like you you do not have a choice but to keep going and unfortunately it's not the it's not the

best way to team build oh my god yeah obviously and and the thing that sucks is like middleton said that last week like he said going in on free agency is not the best way to build a team and and and like investing all this money into free agents is not sustainable but you don't have another avenue they've backed themselves into a corner right it's it's pretty terrifying, but they have the money. That's the thing. They have the money. They have also taken a long time to spend that money.

We're talking years, years of purposefully, grantedly, but not spending money, of being an also-ran, of being a team that, as we know, the worst team in baseball at one point. You don't have a choice. And also you lose credibility with this fan base when you keep saying we're going for it. We're going to win. We're bringing a trophy back.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All the stuff that Middleton has said. You lose credibility if you're not willing to back that up. Yeah, I don't know. I still believe him though. Like I believe him. I'm saying in a hypothetical. Look, we'll see.

I hope he is. I hope it'll see. I hope he is. I hope it's true. I hope he's going to go spend. But we're talking about the luxury tax and the need for them to be willing to go over it. That's a part of it. Yeah. The luxury tax is another thing. And the draft pick thing, I think, is legit.

I don't think he's going to give up a draft pick to sign Joss Alanson. I think he would give up a draft pick to sign Zach Wheeler. That's fine. Look, that's fine. They need the draft. I'm fine with that. that again i'm not the one who put them in this corner they did this to themselves right and they have said too much to not really try and win but that's but that's clint's job is on the line but that's why i think

please that's what it's obviously want him to win but like at least if they don't we could say see you to that guy well we'll see yeah that's why I think that's why I think they've been rumored at least to go to be going in on DD and Mike Moustakis and not so much Josh Donaldson is because DD and Moustakis will not cost him a second

and I'm fine with that I mean both those guys are solid baseball player I mean we've been wanting Moose for the entirety of the time we've done this podcast, it feels like. So I'm happy with that. That's fine. I think that's a smart strategy,

but you still have to spend. Regardless of that, you still have to go and get guys. They do. Again, they have way too many holes on this. They have way too many holes. All right, let's talk about those real quick. Didi, I think that's been

the number one kind of position player name we've heard the most recently, at least. I'll say him and Moose. Him and Moose, but mostly Didi, I think. The connection to Girardi, all that. How real do you think it is and what do you think of the idea of bringing Didi in? Because obviously it has ramifications.

I think it's either, I think they're going to sign one of Moose or Didi. And then they'll put like- Segura at the other spot. Segura at the other spot or Kingery at the other spot and go from there. I can see that. And then put Segura at second.

So Segura at second or third, depending on whether you do Didi or Moose and so on and so forth. Right. So if they sign Moose, then they put Kingery at short and they put Segura at second or third, depending on whether you do Didi or Moose and so on and so forth. Right. So if they sign Moose, then they put Kingery at short and they put Segura at second. And then if they sign Didi, put him at short, Kingery where? Segura at third, Kingery at second. Yeah, I would rather Kingery at third, even though, like, man.

Man. Where's the pop going from? How about the little bombshell that just came out that, I don't remember who had it. Morosi. Wasosi was it morosi cigar has a full no trade clause yeah what super what super what does that happen that was probably the contract and that was a contract the mariners yeah it wasn't it's not not clint x fault but still not ideal yeah i wish you didn't i certainly wish you didn't have a non-trade no trade clause I would prefer he did not have a non-trade clause

yes exactly and it feels like Didi to me for what it's worth if I had to bet on one of those guys it feels like Didi yeah

it just it's been a name we've heard literally since the season ended yeah and I don't I'm not sure how tradable Gene Segura is yeah it's a good point

14 million dollars a year for the next three years look at how many teams he's been on in the last few years I mean like clearly teams are not psyched to have Gene's been on in the last few years. I mean, like, clearly teams are not psyched to have Gene Zagor on their team. They don't want to keep him, like, you know. And he can't play shortstop. No.

I mean, he's just, you know, too big now. He doubled the amount of errors anyone else on the team last year. Gene. He's just a bad shortstop. Me and Gene, the hit machine. Yeah. And I can't wait. I mean, look, I still believe in the bat, if they can figure it out. And he can not go through all kinds of issues. He seems like he's not the best

teammate. He's a bit of a malcontent. He certainly is not someone who's going to hustle on every play. We know that, but the bat's real. The bat can play, especially at second base if that's where they want to put him. If he left here, there's no doubt he's batting like 330. Of course. Are you kidding me? He's winning a batting title. Lock it in. Winning a batting title.

Carlos Santana starting on the All-Star team. Yeah, that's going to happen. Yeah, and there's no more bigger king of buying as high as possible and selling as low as possible than Glenn Sack. Wait until he trades Hoskins this offseason, and then he gets like 40 home runs. Of course. That's exactly what would happen.

So, yeah, Segura, it seems like they're trying to move him. I don't know how movable he is with the no trade and like do you think he really wants to get traded again no I think he'll be here I don't think we're getting rid of Segura I think he's here

but he's playing a different position that would be my prediction I don't think Segura's a bad player like I think he's fine but I don't want to pay him 14 million dollars for the next three years and then on top

again it just seems like in addition to bad defense, it seems like he's just not the best guy to have on your team. Like he's not... Dee Gordon fought him. Yeah.

Dee Gordon seems like the nicest guy in baseball. Seriously. What are you doing? I don't know. I don't know. All right. One more question

about position players because you mentioned him before and there obviously has just been no talk about it Because we focus so much on pitching and all that But Any chance they're in on Renda I think they'll be in on anyone Right

But I mean I'm talking really in on Renda I'm talking Wow there are four teams left in this And the Phillies are one of them in on Renda Gut says no Heart says yes Yeah Me too Oh my god dude wow there are four teams left in this and the Phillies are one of them in on right there. Gut says no. Heart says yes. Yeah.

Me too. Oh my god dude. I want him so bad. I would just. I would be head over heels. Especially because he's going to get like two. He's going to get like 260. Well and here's the thing.

This team has needs. Rendon is the best player on the market. I said before that Garrett Cole would be my top choice just because of where this team is at and all that. But in terms of who do I want to pay the money to that they are going to get the most, it's Rendon and it's not close. I feel so good giving that guy $260, $300 million, whatever. I feel great about it. He's that good.

If I could watch him 162 times, I'd be so happy be I'd be so happy I'd be so happy he's just so good he's just a good hitter I just want a guy like that I want a guy who just goes up to the plate

you're like oh this guy's gonna come through for us and he always gets a hit when his team needs him he's the first guy ever to have home runs in game 6 and 7 of the world series

come on or one of two or whatever that was and fraud ass Derek Jeter is getting the hall of fame for his clutch numbers unanimous how about the jeter or no one or whatever that thing is oh god it's so it's so old baseball writer it's the it's the worst um again you know i'm i'm more or less out on the hall of fame compared to how much i used to be in on it we had fun

going there and all that but it just feels so stupid, the whole process and the way it works. It's just frustrating. It's okay. Yeah. We'll be all right. I know. I still care.

That's the problem. I wish I didn't. If you could get Rendon, if you can get, it wouldn't be a bad path for the Phillies to get Rendon. Well, that's why I asked you. I mean, they have a need there. I mean, it's one way or the other,

you're filling your third base spot. Right. And Baum could play first. Baum could play first, or he could flip him. Exactly. I mean, one way or the other, you're filling your third base spot. Right. And Baum could play first. Baum could play first or he could flip him. Exactly. If you're going to sign Rendon, then all of a sudden, Baum is the centerpiece of the package to go get a starting pitcher. Starter X, exactly.

Right. So it's almost like if you don't want to pay for a Madison Baumgartner, if you don't want to pay for a… Yes, use Baum as a chip and go sign Rendon. I think that would… As we talk it out, I almost like that more. I know. I was thinking about it very deeply the other day.

I mean, that's a really realistic track. Could they get Rendon and then flip either Hoskins or Boehm and get a pretty good starter? Yes, I think they could. I think they could too. Yeah. Especially Boehm to an AL team. His defense is a question.

His bat's not a question. His defense at any position. It's like Hoskins. Hoskins isn't a good an AL team. Like his defense is a question. Like his bat's not a question. His defense at any position. It's like Hoskins. Like Hoskins isn't good first baseman. We know that. It's just the only spike could stick him. And I was watching, I don't know how I got on this, but I was watching a Pat. I never know how you get on.

I was watching a Pat Burrell, like many like his sports rise back in the day. Sure. Sports rise today, like a sending away montage with Pat Burrell. What are you doing? And it was on YouTube. How do you get to this? Oh, I know how I got there. So I was-

I didn't really mean it, but tell me. I was walking around my apartment doing Harry Kalas' call of Burrell's walk off against the Giants in 2008. When I was like, could it be? Yeah. Burl! So I was like walking around my house doing that. And I was like, oh, wait, I need to hear the call because I just was in a mood. And then it just started a whole.

So then I watched Pat Burl's walk off against the Giants. And then I found another video. And it, hold on. and I found another video and it hold on I need to bring up because they roasted Burl in his like going away thing for no reason

and I thought it was hilarious but anyway I was watching this Burl thing and they showed his first bass highlights and I was like oh my god that's so bad but we're also might be seeing the same thing with... Bomb.

Oh, man. It got deleted from my thing. Anyway, it was John Bork or something, and he was saying like, and even though Burrell's post-season numbers were terrible, just straight up said... Just shots for that reason. I mean, he is the worst World Series hitter of all time. Unbelievable, but he had that one big hit. Yeah, he's one for 23 in the World Series.

What a hit, though. Oh, super. What a hit. Where would we be without that hit? He has to lead the parade. Yeah. Even though I still think he's a bust. Love that guy.

He wasn't a bust. He wasn't. Just because he was the number one pick in the draft, he wasn't. Think about how many number one picks in the draft suck and never do anything in Major League Baseball. Yeah, and we're not going to talk about someone that was on this podcast a month ago. We're not going to do it. Major League Baseball. Yeah. And we're not going to talk about someone that was on this podcast a month ago. We're not going to do it. No.

Love him. He's a good talker. He's a great talker. I appreciated that. Yeah. Made it easy on us. For sure. Yeah.

All right. So let's iron it out here. What do you think is going to happen? Of the names we've talked about, who do you think ends up here? And kind of what general numbers do you expect uh i think they signed dd three years 45 million i agree i was gonna say dd for sure i think they signed zach wheeler for five years 115 that's what i'm expecting somewhere in that general range 5120 something like that um i think they make an interesting trade they need to i mean

this is not enough what we're talking about here. No, it's not. But they're going to have two starters. I think Hamels might play himself out of the market. Which would be great. Why would that be great? Oh, I thought you meant like overplay his market. You're saying the market might be too much.

Right. I think the market could become too much. I think that's certainly possible. Pretty scary, to be honest with you. And then it comes down to like do I really want Rick Porcello in here

no I'd almost rather see Eflin again I want nothing to do with Rick Porcello I'm good on that yeah I'm good Kyle Gibson

I think is fine he's fine innings eater great whatever I mean Porcello is an innings eater he's just terrible which is crazy

oh I hate it I hate the fact that Rick Porcello it breaks mynings eater. He's just terrible. He won a Cy Young, which is crazy. Oh, I hate it. Yeah. I hate the fact that Rick Porcello won a Cy Young. It breaks my soul. Yeah, it really hurts. Just watch the guy pitch. He's not a Cy Young winner. Yeah, so it's like, if I don't get... The only pitchers I'm really interested in are Wheeler, Baumgartner, the two big guys,

and Hamels. So I think they're going to get one of those guys, Wheeler, Baumgartner, Hamels. And then I think I'd rather just... I think Zach Eflin could be better than what's out there in the rest of the market, and I want to see what Spencer Howard can do. I definitely agree with you on the Howard thing, for sure. I think that he should be factored into the plans, but...

If I could run out of rotation next year, if Nola, Wheeler, Hamels, Arrieta, Howard, I'm happy. I'm good with that. Arrieta, Eflin. Yeah, well, Arrieta... I'd rather see Eflin, to be blatantly honest, but they won't do that. Right. I have a hard time believing that they're really going to be in on the big guys.

I do too. Unless the market falls their way. And last offseason, we were the exact opposite. We kept saying they're getting Harper or they're getting Machado. One of the two is particularly Harper. I just don't feel it this offseason. No. I just don't. No, Iseason. No. I just don't.

No, I said it before, but it feels like they want a bunch of dudes. Yeah, they're going to be active. They'll make moves. I am with you. I think trades will happen. They will do some stuff. I just don't think it's going to have the same kind of sticker shock as last offseason, or as a lot of people were hoping it would.

Well, it's almost like Girardi was their sticker shock. Yeah, it's a great point, actually. And look, it worked. It was. It was good. Yeah, it gave them good publicity. Yeah, it's a great point, actually. And it look, it worked. It was. It was good. Gave them good publicity. Yeah, it did. So and I and again, we'll make a difference.

But it's going to be interesting. I think it's going to take time. Again, I know that Morosi said that. I do think they make one move. And again, I think they're a little more freed up if they don't really expect to be in on Garrett Cole to the level that, you know, would take to get him or or if they're just waiting out the market, and hey, maybe we get him cheaper, then they're going to act ahead of time,

and they're not going to wait out the offseason the same way. At least I would guess. I agree. Yeah. I agree. But man, I could really use it falling their way. I could really use it. Dude, imagine Rendon.

That's my new thing. Because I really... Given what he's done in this ballpark. I really don't feel like it's going to be Garrett Cole. Just out of the blue,, imagine Rendon. That's my new thing. Given what he's done in this ballpark. I really don't feel like it's going to be Garrett Cole. Just out of the blue, give me Rendon. Well, and the Lidge thing the other day where he was like, they're going to throw sick money at Garrett Cole. I just don't think that's true.

Yeah, I don't either. I hope they do. Look, again, I will take Garrett Cole. I would love to be proven wrong and say, hey, Middleton's going to bring in another $200 plus million guy. And what's so annoying is I was looking at the 0-9 Yankees and they had three guys making 20 million dollars or more on that team a rod was matthew that i know it's a rod cc and tashara oh yeah tashara forgot about tashara oh no no no it wasn't tashara it was uh it was a rod cc and jeter oh yeah well what about tashara he wasn't he would have been over 20 million too i think

he might have been. Regardless. I mean, look, that's the point, though. Look, and again, the rhetoric that Middleton has spewed has been, I want to be the Yankees of the South. I want to be that big boy. So you got to be the big boy. It's time.

It's go time. It's go time. Go time. Burnett made $16 million that year. Giant Damon made $13 million that year. I forgot he was on that team. How could you forget Giant Damon? He's still third base.

I'm talking just now while we're talking right now. Jeter made $21 million. Hideki Matsui made $13 million. Rivera made $15 million. A-Rod made $33 million. Oh, CCLA made $15 million that year, and Teixeira made $20 million. Ah, okay.

So that's a lot of money thrown around. That's so much money. A lot of money. And the Phillies have money. You know what? You gotta spend it. Sign some freaking dudes, man. Sign some dudes. Sign some dudes.

Give me Rendon. Yes. No, I just. Just sign some dudes. It's so weird that it's like, it doesn't feel like, it feels like they're going to do a lot this year, but they're not going to do the one. Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, look, there are three guys. It doesn't feel like It feels like they're Going to do a lot this year But they're not going to Be the Do the one Yeah I agree

I think you know Look There are three guys It's Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon And if it's not any of those three It's just not going to have The same punch Like it'll be fun

It'll matter And we'll be excited About the moves they make Most likely Hopefully But It's not going to have That same

Punch I'm just excited To pay Jake Arrieta 25 million next year you know what i'm excited for 2021 see you jake bye buddy he's gone bye um god i think if they can if they can i just wish they would go after one of these guys and then reset the tax after next year me too me too reset it we'll see And give me one cool trade One cool Just one

One cool trade Trade for me Can I start doing like The made up trade of the week Yes Mitch Hanegar Go Yeah okay so

Mitch Hanegar Yes I would love Mitch Hanegar On the Phillies I co-sign that I love Mitch Hanegar Hustle guy Now

People in Philly will love Mitch Hanegar Hustle Now he He had a Lacerated Like testicle last year. I think that's what it was. It's a bad one. It's not a great injury.

How are you supposed to hit like that? How are you supposed to live like that, Jack? So he played like 42 games in center field last year. Wasn't great at it. Goal glover in right field. I think he could play center field. Why not? This team has never cared if people could actually play the positions they put him at.

So, sure. Right. Hanager in center field. And I was looking at some, I was looking at a Mariners blog that was tweeting about it. Of course you were. Or whatever. Because I have a... Don't explain it.

Just don't explain it. Well, it's on my tweet deck. I think I have... Oh, hold on. Whose name was on my tweet deck? Oh, it's Stott. I have Braxton Stott on my tweet deck. I think I have hold on

whose name was on my tweet oh it's Stott I have Braxton Stott on my tweet deck and they're saying Pavetta and Stott as a headline for for Mitch Hanegar

which is interesting seems like a lot for Mitch Hanegar I love Mitch Hanegar but seems like a lot back injury was really bad last year was really good the year before

yeah still an OPS plus over 100 I think it's a lot I feel like you get them cheaper throw in Austin Adams how about that Austin Adams and How about that? Austin Adams and Mitch Hanegger deal?

Oh, buddy. Clint Sack already has a relationship with Jerry DePoto. You're listing that? Well, that was my first thought when you mentioned Mitch Hanegger and me earlier today. Was it Clint Sack's guy? Go to the Mariners. Make something happen. Right.

So Mitch Hanegger has three years of team control left. And McCutcheon has two years left on his deal. Once McCutcheon's out of here, move Hanager to left field, and then have whoever in center field. Boom. I love it. I love Mitch Hanager. All right, you got any note bag?

So, we haven't been on the air, or haven't been on this podcast since the Astros thing broke. Oh, yeah, good point. And I would just like to say, you know, I respect, you know, I really like that the Phillies did not dupe to this level and win a World Series by cheating. Oh, yeah? Really love how much the Phillies respect the sport. And I can definitively say that they were not cheating at the plate last year.

They were. Oh, yeah. They might have been doing the opposite, actually. No, yeah. Maybe the teams were cheating against them and we didn't know. How about that?

The Phillies, once again, didn't get the juice balls at Citizens Bank Park and they were not cheating. Listen, I just want to say I respect the Phillies for respecting the sport. It's good looking.

They're the most upstanding organization in baseball. They don't want any edges. They don't want any competitive edge at all. They gave Gabe

Kapler bad information last year and made him use all his decisions only using numbers, but the numbers were bad. So just love how committed they are to stand up. Winning is not fun.

I certainly would not like to win a World Series with the way the astros were we're winning shout out to the uh the guy shout out to the person on wikipedia who changed the 2017 al mvp to centerfield camera i thought that was pretty solid it's good pretty good joke uh but it is really embarrassing what they went through it's crazy it's a crazy story i cannot wait to see what the penalty is going to be. Me too. It's got to be punitive.

Like, baseball has to crack down on this. Yes, they have to trade Alex Bregman to the Phillies. That's what I heard. Yes. Yes. Salisbury said... Can we get Jeff Lund out too? I don't even care.

Can we just take him? It's fine. Salisbury said that he wouldn't be surprised if it was $10 million, three first round picks and international slot money. Wow. That'd be steep. That'd be a lot. That'd be a lot.

Three first round picks? That'd be a lot. Good. Good. Set them back a little bit. They don't need them. Yeah, they're fine. They'll be fine anyway.

Then they have to send all their- They'll still develop better than the Phillies. They have to send all their scouts to the Phillies. Yeah. I like that part of it. And Alex Bregman. And Alex Bregman. And Jordan Alvarez.

That's what I would do if I was Major League Baseball. That's good. What would you rather have? Big market in Houston or big market in Philadelphia? Great point. Yeah.

Solved it. Listen, think about the sport for once, Rob Manfred. And also, if you get rid of William Sport, I'm going to be furious. Is that something that's being talked about? William Sport is on the shopping block

for the 42 teams. No. Yes. Not okay. I haven't been following the... They're considering getting rid of 42 minor league baseball teams. Well, I knew about that. I didn't know Williamsport was on the list.

Williamsport was on the shopping block. Oh, no. I would just like to say, no. Don't do it. I need my Williamsport crosscutters. Me too. They're the only team in the Phillies organization I actually care about. Where am I going to get my Kendall Simmons updates?

My Bryson Stott updates? Where are we going to send our first round pick next year? It's a better question. I don't want to lose. All right. First off, baseball. Williamsport is like, it's baseball heaven. That's the better argument.

That's what I'm talking about right here. It's freaking baseball. Williamsport, Pennsylvania is baseball. Why are you doing that? And also, morons. Tell them, Jack baseball the only way baseball is going to survive long term is if you have the kids involved listen the only reason like people like baseball is a sport that anyone can play and it's played from a young age all right and like

the the game is doing well in the standpoint of it's the one of the only youth sports that's actually growing in the last couple years. Baseball's actually growing. And you need, like, older people go to baseball games because they remember, oh, back in the day, I played baseball. I'm going to go to the game now or whatever. Like, it's such a passed down sport that, like, getting rid of 42 minor league baseball teams,

like, it kills the ability for kids to go watch games for cheap. And, like, some of these teams are so far, like, some of these people are so far away from Major League Baseball stadiums. It's not helping anything. It's cutting out markets that are not going to... Let's say you're in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. First of all, if you're closer to New York than you are Philadelphia. But all the Phillies prospects are in Williamsport.

You can watch them grow from a young age. And then once they get down to Cincinnati Park, it's like, oh, I filed that guy from the beginning. What are we doing? What are we doing what are you doing it's good work i hate it i'm with you i hate it it's well said because i just think that the only way baseball survives is if the younger generation watches it and likes it i agree with you and they can pass it down to their kids i agree and like you need to be able to teach a game to people i'm with you and the game's like eight dollars i know i'm with you. And the game's like $8. I know. I'm with you. It's really annoying. I could tell, man. That was a rant. Don't get rid of

Williamsport. Okay. I need my crosscutters. I'm with you. Yeah. Well said. Final thought? I have more. Oh, okay. Keep going. I would just like to say. Keep rolling. I'd just like to say I am going to, I don't know if you saw

the big news of the non-tender candidates, but YN Chen. It's devastating. It is a major loss to the Phillies. I love facing that guy. There was truly nothing better than YN Chen coming into a game, me looking at his contract again, laughing at it. I was like 52 million or something. And then also knowing the Phillies were about to score a minimum of two runs. See you weigh in.

You will be missed. Yeah, he was, for as much as we thought Jose Alvarez was the human embodiment of waving the white flag, it was really YN Chen. And I'm going to miss him. I'm really going to miss him. I think that's fair. Is it weigh in Chen? I think it's weigh in.

Yeah. So I really hope to miss him. I think that's fair. Is it Wei and Chen? I think it's Wei and Chen. I was going to say Wei and Chen. Yeah. I was going to say Wei and Chen. So I really hope the Mets sign you. Someone in the NL. Braves and Nationals are too smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe you got to do it. Yep.

Yep. So I could really use Wei and Chen staying in the NL East, and I am going to miss you. I think it's fair. What else you got? Joe Dillon. How did I get into Joe Dillon? I don't know. I just remembered it. No, I know. What else you got? Joe Dillon? How did I get into Joe Dillon? I don't know. I just remembered.

No, I know. But I am excited about Joe Dillon. He's a nice mix. You talked about him in the last pod. Yeah, he's a nice mix of modern analytics and old school teaching.

World Series champion. World Series champion, but also in the two years when he was there, their walk rates or their strikeout rates went down and their walk rates went up andout rates went down and their walk rates

went up and it seemed like they had more hard contact and he does this like it's so crazy how like you would think that you'd want to teach your players

to play at game speed you know practice at game speed and like it's now just becoming a thing with hitting coaches that they they're bringing guys

who throw hard because in the game you're going to see guys that throw hard makes sense crazy thought it's just crazy how like this general concept

of like, oh, you got to hit off the tee and you got to do all this stuff and soft toss or whatever and now guys are like, no,

let's bring in actual pitchers and let pitchers face them. It's really smart. I mean, I get general VPs to loosen you up but like, still,

smart. To make you better or whatever. So, apparently he instituted a bunch of drills down in Washington and you know

I think there's a couple people that are a little worried because there's a Washington Post article about Joe Dillon a couple years ago and they asked Bryce

about him and he's like I'm not gonna really do any of that stuff and it's cause Bryce does his own thing so it's not like he doesn't like

Joe Dillon or whatever Bryce does his own thing remember the quote this year when the curveball machine came out yeah of course Bryce has his own thing. Remember the quote this year when the curveball machine came out. Yeah, of course. Bryce has his own routine.

Yeah. Yeah. I would like to see him maybe take some coaching. Sure. It can't hurt. Even better than he already was. Yeah, what a thought.

But I'm excited about Joe Dillon and I think the staff is just great. Yeah. I'm excited about the staff. Yeah, me too. And speaking of the staff, how about this for a quote?

Ready. There's a fairly strong feeling that we're not going to teach anybody the split finger at the early stage, Red's pitching coach Brian Price said. It's more for a guy

that's less defined at the higher levels that hasn't had as much success and we think that maybe has some intangibles to pitch in the big leagues. I wonder where you're going with this one.

And it's a good addition pitch to maybe get them over the hump to be a big league pitcher. You can't trade them away in your fake trade and going with this one. And it's a good addition pitch to maybe get them over the hump to be a big league pitcher. You can't trade them away in your fake trade and then bring this quote. Sounds like breakout Pavetta. We're back. If he teaches him a splitter, watch out. Watch out.

That sounds like he's describing Pavetta. It's more for a guy that's less defined at higher levels, that hasn't had as much success, and we think maybe has some intangibles to pitch in the big leagues, and it's a good addition pitch to get them over the hump. That's what we're looking for, Brian Price. Get Pavetta over the hump. That's a good quote.

Let's go. So what if it was seven years ago? See, it still works. It still works. Yeah. Splitter. He was talking about Pavetta seven years in the future. Yeah.

And. That's how good Brian Price is. And, and, and. There was a press conference with kids that were in and they were at Downsville and McParty. They're sleeping over for the night. They're talking to Joe Girardi. Matt Klintzak asked this little kid who his favorite player was. And he said, Nick Pavetta.

And Joe Girardi said, well, he's a starter. He doesn't play every day. Key word there. he's a starter. He doesn't play every day. Keyword there. He's a starter. You got anything else? No. That was a good one to end on, I think. It was good work right there.

I actually had some final thoughts. That was, you brought it today. I almost want to applaud you, but I won't. It was good. I need a side. I could really use a move this week. Yeah, me too.

Get something to get the juices flowing. So, rate and review the podcast. Do it for Jack. It means the world. Have a happy Thanksgiving. Yes. How about that?

We made it, Jack. Thanksgiving. We made it. I'm excited. We both get a day off from work. Yes. You get two.

You get two you get two jealous yeah I'll take one yeah so everyone have a happy Thanksgiving hopefully Matt Klintzak can give us

something yeah buddy yeah also I think we should change the official meal of Thanksgiving from turkey to ham

wow you just waited until the end for that take huh yeah it's a crazy take ham superior I think ham Thanksgiving from turkey to ham. Wow. You just waited until the end for that take, huh? Yeah. It's a crazy take. Ham superior.

I think ham is probably better, but turkey once a year works. Yeah, but it's like you got to nail the turkey. You can mess up ham. Gravy is incredibly important too. Yeah. Here's my Thanksgiving take. We should eat stuffing year round. Crazy.

Yeah, I agree. Stuffing's awesome. Why do we limit it to once a year I don't get it at all I'm going to go home and I'm gonna get a gobbler you should I

love the gobbler yeah that's good big fan yeah come sponsor us while we're here I'll eat as many gobblers as you need me to I'll give you an actual paid

endorsement instead of the free one I just gave you about that that'd be nice all right right in the middle of the pod happy Thanksgiving these friends themselves we'll talk to you guys later one I just gave you about that. That'd be nice. All right. Rating review the pod. Happy Thanksgiving.

These friends themselves. We'll talk to you guys later. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford,

and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago.

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