High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - EMERGENCY MATT KLENTAK IS FINALLY GONE PODCAST

Episode Date: October 4, 2020

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back to record the Matt Klentak is finally gone emergency pod we've all been waiting for. The guys react to Klentak's demotion, John Middleton's press conference discussing it, and much more. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connects ontario.ca please play responsibly this is the high hopes podcast it's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the phillies on radio.com and sports radio 94 wyp And Sports Radio 94. W-I-P. Yeah! It is another edition of the I Am's Podcast. Jack, we back. He's gone. He's gone. He's gone. He's gone.

He's gone. What a day. Yeah, it's a, well, it's definitely a day. Well, it could have been better if John Middleton decided not to speak. Just don't talk. Just don't talk. Just say, all right, Matt's gone. We're all good.

We'll figure it out. Everything's great. Everything's great. Literally, so I was back in Westchester watching Jill's dog for the weekend while her parents are away. And we were out at Highland Orchards. And, you know, we were getting some pumpkins for our outdoor decorating. Look at you. So domesticated. I love it.

Big pumpkin guy. You know, any chance I can get to get my hands on some pumpkins, I'm going to do it. So, you know. Any chance I can get to get my hands on some pumpkins, I'm going to do it. Not the line I was expecting. I appreciate it. So we're there, and we're going through, and it's decently crowded. And I get the Salisbury notification, and I just let out a fist pump. And like, he's gone. He's gone. He did he did it he's gone i have my baseball team back and it was it was mildly embarrassing in front of a good group of

people um and then i drove around super happy couldn't think i mean jill's wondering like why i was so not engaged in the conversations regarding pumpkins. So I got home, drove down. Now I'm in my apartment, and we are recording. Matt Klintak has been fired. I wish it was both Andy McPhail and him, but, but, but, but, but, but Matt Klintak is gone. He is gone. He is gone, and we can finally have a freaking baseball team again well and a podcast

again because we were serious and we were actually pretty nervous when we did it because we love doing this podcast we love diops listeners you know we would never lie to you and we were like you know what we got to take a stand here we can't abide this you know we can't just sit by and let this happen and i was a little nervous there i was like oh crap did we just uh you know decide not to do our podcast for a year i was very nervous so from that perspective i'm i'm very happy we'll get into like you know the middleton stuff and the mcphail stuff and all that but but for a minute let's just revel in the fact that he's gone this guy who has mucked up our life for the last few years is gone he's gone it's no more no more matt clintag no more objectively excellent offseason no more branch ricky no more none of it. This guy is finally gone.

It's a glorious day. It is pretty freaking hilarious that he stepped down. You can't see me now, Jack, but I'm making air quotes as I say it. I'm very clearly, quote unquote, fired. But John Middleton said, I'm paying you money, so you're going to do something for me. I mean, who knows what he is. Maybe he'll work at a cigar factor or something um before we get into the middleton stuff and the mcphail stuff and the jt stuff and the whole all of it just clint tag being gone

it's a beautiful thing jack it really is it's it really is a beautiful thing and and i obviously we're not you know he got fired he or whatever he stepped down sorry he stepped down um and maybe he's gonna make sure the the the lights turn on at citizens bank park next year like maybe that's gonna be maybe that's gonna be his role the one thing though the one thing though that i am semi-nervous about is i mean like i mean you know I'm not nervous about is, I mean, like, I mean, you know, Howie stepped down or whatever. And it's basically. Oh, you say it. Well, I mean, in that case, if we want to follow that timeline,

Matt Klintak is going to go in a closet for a year. He's going to somehow figure it all out. Come out, come back, have a perfect year. Yeah. And we'll win the world series. And then it'll be all downhill after that. I take that. Right. But then he'll forget how to do his job two years later so i mean i'm in on that it's great i mean i'd take it no and and i it's a shame because the middleton press conference happened

but but like i genuinely feel like i got i i got my baseball team back. Like Klintak had really ruined, like the Phillies were in such a good position in 2015. Like they were in such a good position. If they just got the right guy in there to, to, to, to do the right things and run the organization the right way. Unfortunately, they chose him when they could have had,

um, Levin or whatever, Levine who went to the, to the twins and they could add high on. And it's all unfortunate and it's, it's whatever, but it, who went to the twins, and they could have had Haim. And it's all unfortunate, and it's whatever. But it's over. It is over. He is going to be gone in a year, or whatever,

when his contract runs out. Like, it just won't be renewed. And effectively, he's gone. Like, he's gone as far as we're all concerned. We will not have to deal or think about Matt Klintak, which is a beautiful thing. Exactly, exactly. And finally, maybe now there's some hope.

There's a little bit of hope that if they just get the right guy in here, the Phillies are a freaking monster, man. They are a freaking monster. And, you know, you saw the Robert Murray tweet after Klintak was fired, and you saw, I guess, the coveted job around baseball, and these guys were talking about how, about how the ownership wants to win. And sure, I mean, I guess that's the common theme is the ownership wants to win. I mean, they have spent $200 million on payrolls.

I mean, they've gotten to that point. Obviously, we know they did not go over that, but they have gotten to $200 million. So they're definitely willing to spend money. It's just getting the right guy in there. they're definitely willing to spend money um it's just getting the right guy in there and i just i can't stop thinking about like a small market guy sees the phillies and thinks what can i do with that kind of payroll and like the freaking marlins just advanced in the playoffs with a 28 million dollar payroll never lost the playoff series jack yeah they're on their way to the world series they're gonna win unbelievable unbelievable 28 million dollars like imagine what a real competent gm can do

with with the amount of resources and the amount of money the phillies have i am i i just i pray they get the right guy in there i i just you can't i am terrified about a dobrowski i am terrified about a Dabrowski. I am terrified about some of these old school GMs. I could see him going in that direction. I am very nervous. But they have a golden, golden, golden opportunity here to get this thing right and get it on the right path. And this was the first step. I was nervous that he wasn't going to do it.

I was with you. I was nervous that we were never going to do another High Hopes podcast until Matt Klintak was gone. going to do it. I was with you. I was nervous that we were never going to do another High Hopes podcast until Matt Klintzak was gone. They did it. Credit where credit is due. They got rid of Matt Klintzak. It's time to get

the right guy in there and get this thing back on track. They've spent the money. They have some players up there in the Major League roster. It is a golden freaking opportunity and I just can't wait. I can't wait to see what they do, barring the press conference that we just ensued. Well, we'll get to that in one sec.

But to your point, credit where credit's due, they got rid of this guy, and we were all nervous. The fact that it didn't happen right after the season, the fact that he took this time again. And look, I think the initial time, if he wasn't going to do it right after the season, it's pretty obvious that he chose a day where there was no playoff baseball, like he was abiding by that whole, you know, don't upstage our games thing.

Well, I don't know about that. I don't know about that because it could also be, hey, like WIP is not going to be on the – like we're not really doing anything. Look, in terms of trying to bury this, you could not have picked a more perfect time. The Eagles play tomorrow. The president is in the freaking hospital. Like on every level, you could not pick a better time to have a news dump than right now.

Like there is – it is the easiest time on a Saturday in the middle of the day. Like, honestly, like I I'm pumpkin picking. Yeah, exactly. I'm getting apple cider. I got a call from you and I'm hanging out with my daughter and I couldn't answer because I was a full on dad mode right there. But like, I'm like, why the hell is Jack calling me right now? You know what?

What's going on? And then I found out why you're calling me because it was so freaking unexpected in that moment. So I agree with you on that sense. I do think it was a combination of the no playoffs thing, but also more so trying to just bury this. I agree with you. What was your reaction when you saw the news? I'm not even kidding.

No joke. We would never lie to the High Hopes listeners. My very first reaction was i get to do a high hopes pod tonight that's awesome and i will edit that curse i just had out don't worry uh you won't get to hear it but it happened but that's how happy i am that's how excited i am that was i swear to god that was my first thought was i get to do i hopes because again i was legitimately worried like we were gonna stick to this this was not some bit not some bs thing like we honestly felt like we had

to take a stand we couldn't stand by and let matt klintak run this franchise anymore so my first thought was thank god my second thought was step down what like honestly i saw he's gone i'm like ah and then like wait he said he sat down and then you think about it and you understand what's going on or whatever my third thought was sadly following the john middleton press conference on twitter and then getting a chance to watch it after and being like oh oh so that was that was my third thought but ultimately my first thought was thank goodness we could do a podcast thank goodness this guy's gone let's dive into the middleton sub because you know do we have to yeah yeah we do we do a podcast. Thank goodness this guy is gone. Let's dive into the Middleton stuff because, you know.

Do we have to? Yeah, we do. We do. Let's start with, we'll get to the actual stuff he said first, but just the idea, and this is where my first issue is, and I'm sure everyone's is because we've talked about it, but not just the idea that Andy McPhail is coming back, not just the idea that John Middleton made the idea that Andy McPhail is coming back, not just the idea that

John Middleton made it seem like Andy McPhail is some baseball genius who he is so lucky to have helping him make these decisions, but also on a more basic level, Jack, to the point you just made about getting the right guy in here, I thinky mcphail here limits your ability to get the perfect guy because eric neander is not leaving tampa bay to come here for just a general manager job you got to give that guys the keys the car churn off in cleveland is not coming here for the gm under andy mcphail job like i i am not just concerned that andy mcphail's here because i had long been a you know what the hell andy Andy McPhail's like meaningless. He's at a, he was in Florida.

Like who cares about this guy? Now, like it feels like at least the takeaway is Andy McPhail's gonna be more involved than ever. And not just that, but that will limit the group of, and look, there are still smart people out there that I want to run the scene, but it does, in my mind at least, somewhat limit the options.

Yeah, and that was my takeaway too. But here's also what I realized. When he was talking about Andy McPhail, the first couple things he said about McPhail was basically like, this is his last year. He's going to ride out the rest of this year. It's his last year of his contract. He won't be back.

So, while I agree with you in principle that it could hurt getting a big name, like a Neander, Chernoff, and all those, if it's under the – like, McPhail, I think, could easily just step away and be done. Almost like he's just kind of guiding them through this time, and then he's riding off into the sunset idea. Right, and that's my optimistic view. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, that's my optimistic view because, in reality, that's what he basically said.

He basically said this is his last year here, and he wants to retire. He wants to get out, and he wants to be done. I mean, thank God. Please. Won't miss you. I mean, Andy, if you're listening right now and you know, you probably are. Who wouldn't want to retire? Why do you want to work?

You've got lots of money. Enjoy life. If I could retire right now and only do that, this is the only thing I would want to do. And then I could just leave and live on lots of money and enjoy life. I would do it right now. Do it, Andy. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, just go.

Well, honestly, what it might be, and Howard was just on WIP, and he said this, that apparently Andy is telling people within the Phillies organization that if he gets this team to the World Series, then he's a Hall of Famer. So we got Andy got uh andy thinking hall of fame so i think that's maybe why he's uh he wants to stay around for one more year and see if he can you know squeak out a world series appearance oh yeah because i'm sure yeah this is a clear world series contender right now yeah so yeah so my optimistic view and honestly my real view is that it's an infills last year here and and he's going to kind of help

them with the the process of of using his connections in baseball to get some candidates in here take him to middleton and let let it decide let it kind of run its course they're going to run its course with the enemy fail he's going to be gone i think the one thing that was was definitely worrisome is he definitely really trusts his opinion. And he really trusts his opinion, and he really trusts Pat Gillick's opinion. And, I mean, Pat Gillick, rightfully so. The guy's a Hall of Famer. Yeah, I mean, literally one of the best to ever do it.

Yes, exactly. In the history of the sport. It would be dumb not to use Gillick's experience. If you have that guy as a resource, use him. No question. Right. Gillick's Gillick's experience if you have that guy as a resource use him no question right but like he the my first takeaway was McPhail's gone no matter what after the end of the year but then he kept talking about about you know he's a Steve Bartman thing away from being into

the World Series again he's he's a two-time World Series winner in 1987 and 1991? That would be like saying Bill Parcells is still great for today's football. I mean, what is that? Why are we using 1987 and 1991 as a reason why McPhail is still good today? In 2020, where the freaking best guys in the sport are 34 years old. And it's just, it's asinine. But, like, yeah, he definitely trusts his opinion way too much. I understand he's got, it's kind of like Colangelo-ish,

Jerry Colangelo, where it's like this guy has so many connections around the league and he's so well-respected you can't disrespect the McPhail name, I feel like. But it's like, I mean, Baltimore, they got better when he left. The Cubs thing, that team wasn't that great. And sure, Bartman happened, but the Cubs team wasn't special. It had Pryor and Wood, and after that it was like, whatever. And then we're citing the 91 freaking twins like what what kind of crap is that it's embarrassing honestly like it is it's a little embarrassing it's embarrassing a little i mean a lot you're right it's a lot embarrassing i mean

like 1991 is a a different world Jack. You were in your 40s. I mean, seriously. Well, you know what's funny is that I actually, like, that is, I remember that World Series so vividly. I remember Gene Larkin hitting the ball over the outfield, Dan Gladden coming around to score, coming in from third base to score. I remember Smoltz versus Morris. Like, I remember that so well.

I was 10. So I get carried away. Sorry, I got that wrong. It was like a different world. It was a different time. It's so ridiculous. Like, this is asinine. There was nothing even called analytics at that point.

It was a different game. Like, it was a completely different game. It's a different sport. Jack Morris is pitching 100 innings in a game seven that doesn't happen today i mean i mean i mean it's just it's just it's just crazy it's crazy i wish she would just i wish she would just stop talking i wish yeah stop talking and on a grander scale like hire someone smart put them in a position to be successful and get the F out of the way. Like, you know what I would love to see from John Middleton moving forward?

Nothing. I don't want to see you. I don't want to hear from you. The World Series parade. I'll see him at the World Series parade. Yes, exactly. You know what? Raise that trophy.

You brought it back or die trying. Like, stop talking, man. Stop talking. thank you for moving on from that clint tech it was needed it was necessary stop freaking talking you make everything worse when he does he makes everything worse just again like we said if they had just gotten rid of clint tech today and whatever they you know stepped down fired whatever let's all be real we all know what happened. But whatever. If he had done that and then not talked, just not talked,

it is unanimous approval, unanimous excitement, unanimous belief. And then he talks and he makes it so much more concerning. Let's get to some of the specific things he said. Let's get to the lowlights. Let's get to the lowlights of the presser. Let's get to the real the specific things he said let's get to the low lights let's get to the low lights of the of the presser let's get to the real stuff yeah jack all right i think um let's just start with the i think the the kind of biggest comment he had the jt romito stuff the way i took it as if someone gives jt an offer that is legitimate,

they're not going to beat it. He's going to be gone most likely. And the whole I wouldn't have made the trade if I wasn't going to re-sign him, you're the guy in charge of re-signing was such a BS answer. And then he blames the baseball people. That's my point. It's like, are you kidding, dude? You're the guy in charge of the money.

Now, start with the JT thing, but I have a follow-up on the money part. But what did you think of the answer on JT and that whole kind of fluff he sold us? I will be shocked if JT's on the Phillies next year. I'm shocked. Honestly, I would be shocked. It felt like an admission of it's over. Like it's over. He is not going to come back.

And he's talking about, you know, that I would not have traded 6-0 if I wasn't going to re-sign him. Then how about before you let him step through the door for his introductory press conference, you re-sign him. Yep. Now that. Or not even. Even if you don't do it then, do it after last. Like like just do it like just you don't let it get to this point like you don't let it get to this point it's crazy and then he and he buries the baseball people saying they told me i can get an extension done and and that is one thing like clintac clearly wanted to wait to

the offseason because they didn't think the market was going to be there and then mookie signed for 300 and some million and it kind of blew up in their faces so honestly like my takeaway from the JT answer is that he tried to play it off like the reason Matt Klintzak's not here anymore isn't because of of JT but I think it's a big part of it I think the JT thing more more than I thought previously is the reason that Matt Klintzak is no longer the general manager of this baseball team. Like his misread of the market and misread of JT and trading away. And misread of Sixto.

Again, like no matter what you have to do to get JT in that moment, if you have the right read on what Sixto is going to become, you don't trade him for JT in that moment. Like if you know what we see now and you're like, oh, he actually is this guy. He didn't get hurt. He's grown into this picture, like whatever. Like you can't make that.

Even if you re-sign him, you don't make that trade. Like the idea of Sixto for the next six years at prior arbitration prices and stuff is like just so much more valuable than JT could ever be in two years plus a new deal. Like he couldn't be, you know? Yeah. Well, and that comes down to self-scouting. I mean, exactly.

Exactly. Who was the best prospect that they gave up for Lee, Pence, Halliday, Oswald? I mean, it's Carrasco. I mean, Carrasco is definitively Carrasco. Carrasco is good, but it's not like it's six to good. And no, Carrasco took foreverasco's good, but it's not like it's 6-0 good. No, not even close. Carrasco took forever. Like forever.

Forever. And they gave away, I mean, they literally just gave away Pedro 2.0 for two years of JT Romito. So nothing came back to bite them like this did. At least they knew how to self-scout back then. I mean, they're trying to spin it like 6-0's going to have arm trouble and that stuff. Like, yeah, sure, he might. But, I mean, holy smokes.

I mean, he had seven pitches over 100 miles an hour in his first playoff start the other day. It's just I can't watch him. I swear I can't watch him, James. It hurts. It hurts. I actually watched that game, and it actually physically hurts me. Like, it sucks. Correct.

Correct. I can't watch it. I can't watch it. So, yeah, the JT thing felt like a big admission of he's gone. I think Klintak's not here anymore because JT is going to be gone. And, like, again, putting this on the baseball people is ridiculous when you're the owner of the baseball team and you said last, what, November that was? Or October?

That you don't even want to know about the little decisions you're the big decisions guy you're the owner like this is what you said you do is you make the big decisions you could have got jt done whenever you wanted and you chose not to so don't don't throw that on the baseball people if you said uh yeah listen you stupid baseball people i'm just gonna give them whatever i want i'm the freaking owner like totally that's all you have to do that's all you have to do so that was a ridiculous answer and uh the one of many ridiculous answers yeah and and that is particularly true when when looking at this situation with the whole i mean it's i'm flabbergasted that he gave that answer that he tried to pawn that off i mean it is just so clear that that's a you decision.

And especially after you make a big deal of stupid money, after you do the whole, you know, bring the trophy back or die trying. Like, you can't say that. You can't say that if you're not going to back it up. and letting the best player at his position, one of the top 20 players in the sport, or whatever you want to put it, walk away because you won't pay him. That is what it is. Let's be real. And because you are scared of luxury tax, you're scared of whatever, is a big issue, which leads me into my next point.

I don't know about you, but for me, the McPhail stuff the jt stuff all made me angry the most angry i got during this whole thing is when my man john middleton starts talking about cutting costs when my man starts talking about we don't know what the economic landscape is we're losing money bro are you kidding you can't say I will die trying bringing this trophy back and bring this stuff here. Look, I get we're in the pandemic and all that stuff. You're worth $3.4 billion. $3.4 billion. The literal, literal last thing I want to hear from you right now is, well, we might not be able to spend what we wanted to, or whatever, especially considering

that because you gave Matt Klintak this one, because you chose that guy over Chaim Bloom, over the twin GM, over all these guys who are clearly better choices, because of you, because you did this stuff, that you're going to say now, when the team is in a position where literally the only way you can win now, the only way

is to spend, is to buy a bullpen, is to add another starter, is to re-sign Didi, is to re-sign JT. Like, that's it. That's the chance right now. There is no waves of talent coming. I'm happy he admitted that drafting and developing is the issue because, yes, it clearly is. No bleep, John john we agree with you on that but for him to to talk about potentially pulling back the reins not spending the money that

needs to be spent on this team is basically like telling us well we might not be good for a little while or we might not be a world series contender for a while. Like, that's the way I take it, and that's a concern. Jack. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do.

Enjoy the number one feeling, winning, in an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on Fan duel casino where winning is undefeated 19 plus and physically located in ontario gambling problem call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca please play responsibly yeah no it totally is and like i mean jt's the guy i mean jt's the guy that you would have to re-sign if you want to do that. Now, if he turns around and goes sign and – Trevor Bauer or George Springer or whatever.

George Springer. Yeah. And Trevor Bauer. Let's not leave Bauer out of this discussion. I mean, if you have Nola Bauer and Wheeler, like, you get to a playoff series, you've got a chance. No, no, I agree. I just don't think he's signing long-term anywhere.

I agree. I agree. I don't think so either. I'm just saying, like, even then, giving Bauer a two-year $40 million deal or $45 million, $50 million deal, whatever. My point is, like, you need to be in on these people or else we're in a lot of trouble. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if he just stays with Cincinnati

because that's where the driveline guys, the driveline pitching guys are, and that's, like, his best friends. But, yeah, so, like, Bauer, JT, Springer, if you go out and do that, driveline guys the driveline pitching guys are and that's like his best friends so um but yeah so like jt or uh you know bauer jt's springer if you go out and do that dd and still spend but that that that's my main concern too is that they're just gonna they're just gonna cut this thing off they're gonna cut off the funds and we're gonna be a middling baseball team you know it's gonna be it's gonna be wheeler nola efflin howard that's a pretty good four um and, it's going to be, it's going to be Wheeler, Nola, Eflin, Howard. That's a pretty good four. And then it's just going to be Bryce, hopefully being MVP Bryce Hoskins,

who knows what the, he might need surgery. And then I don't, I don't know what the line is going to look like next year. I mean, it's, it's going to be another year, Jeet Segura, another year older. Maybe he's going to be back with shortstop. Like I am terrified that there's going to cut it off and they're not going to continue spending. And I believe me, we are all in on, on scouting and developing from within,

but you don't, you can't do that right now. Like it's years. You're in prime Bryce here. Prime Bryce, you are in prime Wheeler. You are in prime Nola. You're in prime Hoskins.

Like there's no rebuilding here. If you want to, if you want to, you know uh continue to build and and sign international free agents and hopefully start drafting well and I think they took a step in the right direction this year and Brian Barber is obviously a great hire um all this stuff's important but you can't you can't you can't just cut it off and and say we're losing money and we're not going to feel as competitive as a team as we can next year.

That's not an option, and I'm terrified that it has become an option. You're still getting the Comcast money. You're getting all this stuff. You might be losing $100 million, but you're going to make it back. And let's be real. You're probably not. You're probably not. If they were losing $100 million, they would have opened their books to the players.

They would have shown them what they were losing. Like, baseball just signed a new $3 billion contract. Did you see Lindor's comments about Cleveland? I thought, I love seeing him say that stuff where they were like, can the Cleveland Indians afford to re-sign you? He's like, yeah, they're a billion-dollar franchise. They definitely can. They're like, well, they've got the pandemic.

Did you see the $3 billion contract that they just signed the you know like and he was calling it out and he's right like i i'm sorry like i don't believe any of these owners when they're crying poor it drives me crazy that they are they are still making a lot of money off tv contracts and again ultimately first of all back to the 3.4 billion dollars like my man can afford it he just can and then on top of that like i'm sorry like i don't like i understand this is is rare you know uh once in a lifetime thing like this is all the worst year of all of our lives and this is you know obviously there have been losses for a lot of people but like you're still the dude who told us you were gonna bring the trophy back or die trying you're still the dude who told us you were going to bring the trophy back or die

trying. You're still the dude who said he wanted to be the Simon of the South. You're the dude who still says he is committed to winning. And honestly, you're the dude who told Bryce Harper to his face, if you come here, I will do whatever it takes to build a winner around you. That's the reason Bryce Harper came here. In the end, we all knew Matt Klintec had nothing to do with it. John Middleton, and to his credit, shout out, we appreciate it. John Middleton is the man who got Bryce Harper to come here, and he deserves a lot of credit for that. But the way he got Bryce Harper to come here is promising him that he was going to do what it takes to win. Well, guess what, buddy? Now's the time to prove it. Yeah, and get this fan base back on your side. And that's what hurts about this whole thing.

I left that WIP interview with Angelo where it was an hour in the studio like, man, we have the guy. Me too. I was so pumped, man. I was like, this guy's the best. This is the best. Let's roll. And my biggest fear, and I don't feel that way anymore.

I feel terrified about the franchise. Like, they just need to nail the GM hiring. Get the right guy in here that can know what he's doing, hopefully, and he can just he can just get out of the way and they can just win and they and they have a guy in there that'll spend middleton's money wisely on the right players and they can just he can just calm down because i i don't think he knows i i know he doesn't know what he's doing he's he's like openly talking in the press conference today about how he's learning baseball

and learning how to run a baseball team. And then it feels like it's all fly by the seat of your pants at this point. He's kind of making it up as he goes on how to run a baseball team. Like, just honestly, Eric Neander, Mike Chernoff, getting one of those guys in here and just letting them run the team might be the only thing that can save them for the next couple years. That might be the only thing.

Bringing in a young GM, hopefully he starts doing what he can do. But unless he just – I pray that Middleton will just pay whatever it takes for Eric Neander and then just get out of the way. Because that might be the only way of saving this thing. Getting a guy in here that knows what he's doing, knows how to scout, knows how to draft, knows how to incorporate analytics. That might be the only thing that can save this team.

Maybe ever. I don't know. Maybe ever. But it is paramount. I'm with you. It's the only thing that matters. Just get a guy in here that knows what he's doing and just let John spend the money and hopefully win big. Just let him win big. I don't want him continuing to having to make big decisions year in, year out. I mean, this is the guy that thought hiring a manager

was going to make this team 10 wins better. That's what this is. I just, please, I'm begging you, just get the right guy in there and just let it go. Well, and look, you know, there's been some negativity, you know, as we're talking about Middleton and stuff. But, like, look, we want them to give Eric Neander a blank check, obviously, or Mike Chernoff or whoever, like these top- tier elite type of guys who've proven it, you know. But even if it's not those

guys, like there are super smart baseball people out there. The next Eric Neander is out there somewhere. Like those guys are out there. You just have to be willing to not only hire the right guys. Obviously, the history with that is not great as we know glen tech over the three finalists he picked the the definitive wrong one of the three so that is a concern maybe he's learned from it you hope whatever i did the whole reports about him wanting an experienced guy scares the the crap out of me unless he is going to go pay for someone who's already like implanted somewhere like neander or whatever um the idea of like a you know we've talked about it on here a million times but like if it's a dombrowski type i mean that is true disaster

that is the next decade of our franchise just lost and and whatever i honestly don't even like dombrowski like there's nothing to do here for nebrowski he doesn't have the pieces to trade away to build up what he wants but regardless um i think that that it doesn't have to be Neander. It doesn't have to be Chernoff. There are super smart baseball people out there who, if given the chance, can build a franchise. Here's the key, though. Like you said, Jack, the man John Milton has to get out of the way.

He has to be willing to spend none of this cheap stuff that, like, I'm sorry. I know it's a weird world and a weird situation we live in right now but but if you want to compete now if you want this group if you want bryce harper to have a chance to win a world series here you have to commit now you just have to it's a it's the situation you put yourself in and that's what happens when you hire matt klintak and five years ago after five years tanking, after being as bad as you were, this is what happens when you fail. This is what happens when you fail drafting and developing, adding young talent to this team.

This is the situation you find yourself in. And you have to hire someone who can fix it and then be willing to give them the resources to fix it. And look, I do think it is that that middleton acknowledge that drafting and developing has been such a problem for this franchise for such a long time like i am all for putting resources into that and brian barber's a really good start but ultimately this man has to hire the right person and then also get the hell out of that person's way could not agree more i i am terrified about the experienced um the experienced guy thing um the browski obviously but brian sabian of the giants like stuff like that like i i don't just because you got clint sack wrong does not mean that you go

away from what is working in baseball right now like it's it it scares it scares the living daylights out of me that he's just gonna oh i need a baseball guy in here i want a freaking ivy league 35 year old nerd from the like hey crazy idea let's not go to the orioles or the angels and grab and grab their freaking analytics i i would rather get the 20th guy down in the Rays org chart than the second guy in Los Angeles. You know what I mean? Oh, my gosh. There's like, all right, James, there's five organizations they should pick from.

The Rays, Indians, Yankees, A's, Braves. I mean, the Braves could be in there. Sure. A's Braves I mean the Braves Could be in there Sure I mean Like Just Just Take someone

From a smart organization Yeah I mean Rick Hahn I would take his guy In Chicago That dude's pretty smart He's done a really good job

With the White Sox AJ Preller His number two Whoever that is If he's smart Whatever Like there are certain guys But I think that

The key organizations If you really want to look There are certain guys. But I think that the key organizations, if you really want to look at someone who, and sadly, I do think that you have to look at someone who can succeed with less than the top because it doesn't seem like John Middleton, from the words he was saying, is going to spend the way we want him to. So it makes it more imperative that you have someone in here

who can truly build, truly develop. So with that being the case, it's the Indians, it's the Rays, it's the A's, like one of those. Like, you know, one of those organizations that every single year, year in, year out, for the last freaking decade or more, contends with a third of the payroll we have, half the payroll we have, a quarter of the payroll we have. Those are the type of guys you need to go for.

And again, very important, not the Angels or Orioles. Oh, my God. This should be so simple. It should be so simple. It's freaking crazy. So one of the guys I like a lot, if we're going to do this, I haven't, honestly, I've've been so in on like Eric Neander is the only thing I really care about.

And I, again, official high host position, blank check for Eric Neander. I don't think it's going to happen. No question. It's not going to happen, but that is definitively our position. I don't think it's going to happen. I would put it at like 1%. Eh, 0.01%. I mean, I would put it at like 1%. Eh,.01%.

I mean, I would put it at like 5%. I mean, this guy kept Klintac in the organization because he didn't want to just pay him to leave. Like, that's what just happened. And that's fine. Like, I get it, whatever. But like, really? Really?

Really? Like, it just doesn't feel like this guy's going to hand her $50 million to run his team. It just doesn't. Well, what? I mean, you don't know what Clemson could be doing. He could be turning on the hot dog machines. Making sure the lights are on. I mean, you don't know what he's doing.

He could be doing some hard work. He's valet parking the cars at Citizen Fang Park when they have special events. I've heard that. Wouldn't that be a story? What if you pull into Lot K when fans are allowed back in the stadiums? Hopefully next year we pull into Lot K and McFundex there taking our ticket. What do you think? I mean, I'd be earning that three mil. I mean, three mil a year.

Yeah, I don't think he's going to do it. I would give a blank check to him, turn it off the same kind of way out in Cleveland. But I really like a guy like Sean Foreman who is with the Indians. Sean Foreman, like baseball reference, Sean Foreman? No, Sean – well, no. No, he's with the Indians. Oh, I didn't realize.

You know the guy who started baseball reference is named Sean Foreman as well. Oh, you know what? I messed it up. His name is not Sean Foreman. I didn't think so. I was like, Sean Foreman is the baseball reference. He is. No, you're 100% correct. It is. Okay, cool. It is? I messed it up. His name's not Sean Foreman. I didn't think so. I was like, Sean Foreman's the baseball referee. He is. No, you're 100% correct.

It is. It is. I messed that up. There's a guy with the Indians. I forget his first name, but his last name's Foreman. He went to Malvern Prep, and he's in his 30s, and he's in the Indians, and he is pretty much one of their big-time scouting guys. He's the assistant to the

gm i think something like that so i'm in i don't need to hear anymore like yeah again like these these guys um there's another guy the second in command with the rays i think would be a really good name um i just gotta look it up again the 20th in command with the rays feels like a good name to me you're right you're right anyone with the rays and feels like a good name to me. You're right. You're right. Anyone with the Rays. And maybe see if Haim will come down here and take over this team for a little bit. What are you doing in Boston, man? I mean, come on. They don't even care up there.

No. They know you're all rebuilding up there anyway. There's so many guys at the Rays. Oh, gosh. I'm just so jealous. Well, you know what's awesome? I'm forgetting all the issues we've hadays. Oh, gosh. I'm just so jealous. Well, you know what's awesome? I'm forgetting all the issues we've had tonight. Peter

Bendix. Peter Bendix is the name from the Rays. He's the vice president. We get to do pods talking about this, Jack. We get to do the GM search pod. Let's go, baby! I know. And I promise we were this close to not podding for a year and now we get to do

GM searches. How great is this? Ever again. It's a beautiful thing. So my promise to the High Hopes listeners is that if Neanderthals is not going to happen, Chernoff's not going to happen, they're not going to bring in someone to be their president and all that stuff, my promise is the next High Hopes podcast, I will have the next guy. I will have the next guy.

Oh! That's a big promise right there. Well, because we have to start going for the next guy. That's a big promise right there. Well, because we have to start going for the next guy. I agree. That's what we need to do. Because as much as we want Neander, we have to acknowledge it.

It is unlikely, and thus we have to take the next step. Yes. Thank God Clint Tack is gone. Again, real quick, thank God. Thank God. I know we've had some negativity

because John Middleton needs to not talk ever again to the media, whatever. But like, thank God. Thank God. I know we've had some negativity because John Middleton needs to not talk ever again to the media, whatever. But, like, thank God. Thank you. Thank you for getting rid of Matt Klintec and letting us do this podcast. I really would have missed it. I love it. So thank you.

It is the best. It is the best. So, yeah, and if there's one thing that I that is you know my passion is getting the entire high hopes community behind I know shout out to all of you wonderful people I've seen many blank check for

Eric Neander tweets so you all rule yes and maybe we can bully John into doing it you know maybe we can we can just tweet it enough that it'll come to me I was like well fan fan uh fan pressure didn't you know make me make the decision but i noticed it i saw it it's out there it's like all right bro we know clearly you're welcome for helping you get rid of matt clinton he clearly did not want to lose the high hopes podcast because this is

where should he have i mean that would have been a bad decision so i mean think about all the good think about all the good things this podcast has done for the phillies organization brian barber matt klintzak out um bryce harper bryce harper let's be real i mean i mean how much more do we have to do i mean would he let us run the phillies after the comments we made earlier probably not but i think if he got past the comments about him never hopefully speaking to the media again and really got to the core of this podcast and brings in Eric Neander, I will take it as a massive win. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? We can only do so much.

He's Jack Middleton again. Back to John. Look, he got rid of Klintak. We said it's jack middleton again oh like you back to john look he got rid of clintack we said it john middleton sir that is your name even though you didn't look some people aren't great at talking to the media it happens he gave a horrendous press conference when gabe cabler was fired and then he went out and got joe gerardi here and that was a win and that was a good job so like i'm not saying this is unsalvageable or whatever but yeah if you get eric neander in here what up jack yeah jack jack middleton is back in the building

so like i think it's on us to to do as much as we can to get eric neander here i mean now now salisbury he did write 14 gm candidates for the phillies I think 13 of them were God awful, but, but he did mention Eric Neander by name in that article. And I will take that as a, hopefully a little birdie is saying we're going after him. We're going after the big dog. So can you imagine what it,

no, dude, honestly, I would, I would stop doing the highest podcast because I would be, I'd just be on cloud nine. You wouldn't be able to talk. You would be so happy.

You would just be hyperventilating. Yes, correct. Correct. So, please. I mean, hopefully the Rays lose. I don't want them to win the World Series now because if they get it out and he's like, geez, I got to. Imagine how frustrating it would be every year knowing that you got to like basically, you know, do magic to get the best roster in baseball.

I can only imagine. Look, there's a reason that Andrew Friedman went to the Dodgers. Like a lot of people are, oh, Andrew Friedman, you know, he's not going to leave the Rays. Like he did. He went to the Dodgers because he was like, oh, wow. Now I can like take what I do and do it with way more resources. Why wouldn't I do that? I mean, you see people in any industry.

Look at our industry. People move from Charlotte to New York or this or that because it's a bigger market because there are more opportunities because there's more resources. Same idea. Yes. And before we get out of here, a lot of people have been asking me, and there is a report out there today there might be a falling out with mr theo epstein of the cubs i saw this too yep and i was gonna bring it up

i would just like to say that if theo epstein comes here and wants to run the phillies you're in tell me you're in jack tell me you're in i will. Tell me you're in. I will be ecstatic. Let's go. All that guy does is turn teams into World Series contenders. That's just what he does. Now, I have criticized him in the past because I don't think he's great at maintaining. Some of our bigger arguments in the past have been about one Theo Epstein, who I think is the greatest executive in sports history, potentially. No, I mean, Eric Neander exists.

He ended the two longest, most suffering, strict-safest sports. Dude, no one loves freaking championships more than you. How would you get past the championships? We can evaluate a guy's job without being this guy with one win. Jack, can I just say three words to you? Nick Foles won the Super Bowl. No, that's more than three words get better at words three words you know what they are you're just not thinking flags fly forever thank you flags fly forever

flags fly forever i get it but in case you didn't hear that my wife emily just yelled whoo from up there because she knows flags fly forever thank you emily yes uh she said do what you gotta do to win thank you does does emily know theo's record after the 2016 world series and where that team is at this okay i just want to make sure we're on the same page here that i would you say i'm winning the theo argument at this point no no but i will say that that for someone who is arguing against the guy who literally ended the two longest suffering sports fandom streaks in the history of baseball you do an amazing job arguing like this should be a no-brainer win for me, and you do make me doubt myself sometimes. So, crap.

All right, well, how about this? How about this for the nail in the coffin? Who would you rather have be the president and GM of this team? Don't say Eric Neander. I would rather have Eric Neander. Stop talking, all right? I know. I know you would.

Are we done? Is this over? No, it's all right. It's all right. Hold on. So, yeah. So, Eric Neander is the official position. Yes.

Let me just see if I wrote anything else down here. It was refreshing how committed it seems like he is to scouting. Totally. That seems to be because he probably doesn't want to spend on free agency anymore. True. I agree with you. I think that's part of it. But ultimately, on a real basic level, as much as we talk about the team right now,

and we say we want to win right now, and they have to based on the roster they have, if they don't want to waste this and just be a middling thing and waste Bryce Harper's career and all that. But on a holistic, as a Phillies fan level, if i could just pick one thing for them to do better it would be drops to develop better like he's right it is the single most important thing for the future of the franchise for the health of the future of the franchise so he's not wrong it's just like you said it you know it could be ulterior motives for saying it. Right. So, yeah. So it was a, to wrap up today, it was first pure elation and just pure excitement. And then it was like, I'm pretty disappointed

after the Middleton Press Conference. And now I'm back to being excited again. Yeah, me too. I'm definitely way more excited than not. Like I just am. I mean, just the thought of doing a new gm podcast oh well think about how many sad pods we've done recently like i know we bitched a little bit in this one and you know there's been some whatever i'm psyched man like on a basic level i have a lot of questions i hate that annie mcphail's still

here i don't love that john middleton ever speaks in public, but I am excited. Like, I am excited again about the Phillies. Like, Matt had to go. Like, that guy had to go. He's gone. I'm excited. Yeah, a little annoyed that it took so long because it doesn't feel like they made the, you know,

much conviction with their decision. But he's gone gone and that's all that matters and i will not complain anymore correct decision very excited i look forward to the next high hopes podcast again exactly like he's not jack middleton yet no but he's but he's john middleton he's just he's just 150 million dollar blank check away from being jack middleton again which is crazy like again like think about this way like as look all we talked like sign jt was such a thing like it's it became national it's a whole thing like sign eric neander like you honestly you can let jt walk i don't want

you to i want him here but if i have a choice for this off season for one or the other it's neander a hundred thousand times over signed jt it's not even close yeah i would much rather have eric neander here than than j3 like it's not close like it's actually not close six though could win four straight science like a thousand straight science what's sad about that is he could he could could actually do that. Of course he could. Of course he could. He could. But at least there's hope. There is hope now. There's high hopes, baby.

Yes. We're back. We are definitively back. Yes. I'm so happy we didn't have to end this podcast for a year or whatever. I love doing it. I love you listeners. I'm really happy we're back.

That's my biggest takeaway from tonight. Never leaving. Never leaving until we want leaving until we want to fire you can't even get rid of us if you want to i'm sure there were some people out there were like sweet let those idiots go away sucks for you we're back you got any final thoughts nope nope nope nope nope i am uh gonna drive back to westchester tonight and i'm what dedication buddy am going to drive back to Westchester tonight. What dedication, buddy. Thank you. You drove back to Philly just to record this podcast. That's pretty cool.

Yeah, of course I did. I've been begging for this podcast for two years now. So, of course I drove back to Philly for this, and I am looking forward to getting back to Westchester and cracking open the first Mecklen Tech is no longer my GM beer. I'm already three into that. It's a beautiful thing. Yep, and you're slowly starting to realize that I'm right about Theo Epstein.

What a freaking night. Seriously, if Theo wants to come around to Philly, it's like, no problem. Please, buddy. Come on. You are so welcome. Also, the yankees should definitely move on from cashman and i've been saying this for a while i mean he's not good you know oh thanks yeah thanks has no idea what he's doing so we get to the gm pods i'm so excited

man i'm in a great mood man if they just give me one report just give me one report they're going after a big give me it give me any give me salisbury being like hearing whispers better. Name to watch. Something like that. Name to watch, Eric Bander. Name to watch. I will faint. I will faint. Oh, we love you, IOPs listeners. We are so happy that we are back.

Guess what? Next week, we'll be back more. We're going to do the GM pod. We're excited. We're back. For Fritz, I'm Seltzer. We'll see back more. We're going to do the GM pod. We're excited. We're back. For Fritz, I'm Seltzer. We'll see you guys later. All-Star Closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question.

What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago. It is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is. Another fact, so jump aboard the B.I.B. Express.

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