High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Episode 1

Episode Date: October 26, 2017

Jon Marks and James Seltzer talk Phillies in the inaugural episode of High Hopes. The guys discuss the Phillies' managerial search, offer their thoughts on the 2017 season, and much more. See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See Uber app for details. All right, and hello, everybody. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon. I'm so used to just saying good evening or good morning or whenever I come on the air. But I don't know when you will be listening to this podcast, but hopefully you're listening to it. And if you hear me talk right now, you are listening to it. This is the High Hopes podcast. I am John Marks along with James Seltzer.

Hello, James. Hello, John. How are you, sir? This is good. This is like, you know, a podcast, man. How about that? Like, people can listen whenever they want. They're walking around.

They're like, you know, I got high hopes right now. So check it out. You did a podcast for the Phillies 24-7. So on one of the HD channels of 98.1, you did a daily Phillies podcast during the season, right? Correct, yes. HD radio, radio which you know everybody listens at some point people thought a lot of people were gonna listen but it's gonna be huge man maybe not so much um so yeah so you did that and i would actually drive in looking

for it and a couple times i heard podcasts from like 2011 which was actually funny to hear them talking about the team being like yeah yeah, they could still win. And I'm like, you were wrong. They can't. But my first year here at WIP, and obviously I work nights and I'm a part of the Phillies coverage leading off in the final out. And as a kid, obviously everybody loves the Eagles and I love the 76ers and people love their teams.

But there was always some type of a kind of a special bond, I think, with my family and baseball. Baseball was always my first love. I love that while people complain about the pace of it, that's what I like about it. I like pitching changes and is he going to throw him a fastball here or is there a base open? You know what I mean? So like I love baseball for the same reason a lot of people don't like baseball. There's nothing wrong with baseball other than the games are too long now and they need to change the strike zone.

But I love baseball. Yeah, I'm the same way. It's my first love. It's my best love. I mean, people hear me talk about, you know, the Eagles all the time, VGN Radio and all that. Most people might be surprised to know that I'm, like, way more of a baseball guy than a football guy.

You know, it's what I grew up loving. Like you said, it's, like, the machinations of the game and the strategy and, you know, just the fact that there's no clock and anything can happen in any moment. And the comeback is always on the table. And kind of to, you know, tie it around, the hopes are always there.

You always have that high hope. It's always next season. It's awesome. I'm excited to talk baseball. So James and I kind of, so here's how it worked out. We were like, hey James, we need to do a Phillies podcast. I'll be honest with you. When everybody in September was telling me, like, God, I bet you can't wait for the Phillies season to end because pretty much I

come into a half hour and then I wait around and watch the game and then I get back on at 1130, sometimes even later. And then it's, I mean, it's a long night, but I'm watching the Phillies. I enjoy it. You know, like I'm watching the Phillies. I enjoy it. I enjoyed watching the team. I didn't enjoy some of the season, James. But once Reese came up, Nick Williams before that, it became a really cool – it salvaged the season for me.

And season ended, and I'm kind of thinking, I don't want to stop talking about the Phillies. There's so many things going on with the team. So I'm like, James, let's do a podcast. And you were like, yeah. Yeah, Inst like, James, let's do a podcast. And you were like, yeah. Yeah, Insta, yes. Well, we need a name for it. And we need a name because we're affiliated with WIP.

This just isn't us going out on our own. We're like, hey, listen, why wouldn't we want to be with the radio station that we work? Why wouldn't we want to affiliate ourselves with them? So, of course, we ran it by Spike. Spike thought it was a great idea. But then there's the whole legal stuff. You have to get everything approved.

So it's like, well, what do we want the name to be? We were taking recommendations, and I think I just threw out high hopes. A couple people had said it. And I think it just worked for everybody. So it's going to be high hopes, James. Yeah, well, the thing that I love about it, and it works on so many levels, and obviously shout out to Harry. If you're your age, my age, and significantly older,

I mean, Harry was part of your family. I grew up with Harry Coward. The soundtrack of my summer. That's a perfect way to say it. That's my guy. So that alone is enough. But then kind of just where this team is right now, and you hit on it, this season, as someone who,

and you know because you were talking about the Phillies every day too, there weren't a ton of us out there talking about the Phillies every day. We you were talking about the Phillies every day, too. There weren't a ton of us out there talking about the Phillies every day. We were both talking about the Phillies every day. I don't think there's two other people that were doing radio on the Phillies every day. Every day. So when you have to come up with topics and talk about, like, there's some tough times in there. Like, the month of May was one of the toughest months I've had as a baseball fan between it all. And the way they lost the game.

It was tough. 6-22 and all that stuff. Oduble was being all and the way they lost the game. It was tough. Six and 22 and all that stuff. Oduble was being Oduble for some of those games. Franco was struggling. The game in L.A. would just symbolize it all with the back-to-back-to-back to end it. But I think that's kind of the beauty on my favorite level of the name High Hopes is that now there really is reason for High Hopes. And that's the way I felt at the end of the season was like, there's reason for optimism.

Now we can actually see tangible things that are, that are going to be a part of the future. And that's reason to be excited about. I agree. They need to develop young players still in their system. Like Sixto Sanchez, who is their best prospect, right?

He's their best prospect period, but he's also a 19 year old-old kid at now high A ball. That's my worry, man. In two years, he could not even be throwing a baseball. He could get Tommy John tomorrow. They all do. It's so far from a sure thing. But if it ends up working out, you have a No. 1 starter that throws over 100 miles an hour

and seems to have the head to be a pitcher, which is even more important. Well, and the delivery is so easy. That's the thing that when you... He must be a Pedro out there. Exactly. It's like the size, but he uses his body so effectively. Yes, it's elastic arm. That's such a beautiful thing to say. And it's such a strange thing because there are just

guys, and obviously genetics, whatever it is, there are just guys who can put more wear and tear on their arms over time and just bounce back. Look at a guy like Bartolo Colon. I mean, he's 45 years old. He's still pitching in the major leagues after all this time. Because he's got a big butt, and it's all core that he's thrown from.

So, you know, you hope that Sixto is one of those guys who, because of the delivery, because of the arm, is not someone who runs into problems. But that's my worry, right? That's why I love a lot of the guys that we do know about, and most of their high-level prospects in the minors, are bats. At the upper levels, yeah. Yeah, I do feel good about that because that's more projectable to me.

I don't know what's going to happen to an 18-year-old kid who throws 100 miles an hour and curveballs. We're not going to bore you with the minor league. This is the truth. You can look at my phone right now. If you go to the bookmarks on my phone, and I have South Atlantic League scoreboard, Eastern League scoreboard, International League scoreboard, Florida State scoreboard, New York Penn League. I can vouch for you for years. You've been doing this for, like, as long as I've known you, you've just been fascinated with it. You know what it was?

Back in the day, they used to have in the Inquirer, I think the Sunday Enquirer during baseball season, they used to have, it's the only time they would have the Phillies minor league stats, but then they would also have the locals in the minors. And this was around when Greg Luzinski's kid was in the minors, Ryan Luzinski. And I just remember it. I always find it fascinating for local people. It would be like, oh, well, he's in single A, just to kind of follow their past. But, yeah, I mean, that's kind of how it's been with baseball for me.

All right, so let's do this, all right, because we know that over the next couple weeks we'll be talking about the offseason and what they're going to do. So let's keep it simple, stupid, and talk about what you thought about this season. Now, you can't go wins and losses, and the first half of the season was just that. It was bad.

And, you know, the last month and a half really pretty much made up for everything. So at least now you know. I feel like you have a better idea of what you have, whether it's your outfield or your infield or the guys that are going to be coming up or if J.P. Crawford can play third base, if he can be a super utility guy and stay in the majors next season with Freddie Galvis there.

Hoskins can play multiple positions. I feel like this season was a success just for that reason because you at least have a better idea of what you have going forward. Yeah, 100%. Well, especially with the way the first half of the season played out, knowing that a guy like Reece Hoskins was ready to play in the major leagues and that you're watching Tommy Joseph get trotted out there to slaughter every night i mean it made it even that much tougher to kind of wait for those guys to come up but it starts to happen nick williams comes up he's playing pretty good he's doing all

right hoskins comes up impress the league by storm alfaro comes up starts to get to play every day crawford shows people hey i'm pretty good at defense. I can get on base. I can walk. I can walk. At his age, too, he's so young, and that's the thing that people kind of just expect so much from these prospects. And it's why I love that you do need to kind of follow that path because it's hard to tell. Baseball more than any other sport, you can't look at what a guy's doing in AA and know what that actually means unless you look at his age, unless look at his development all that type of stuff so i think to see crawford come up and

get on base like that i'm just really heartened man i'm heartened by the whole thing and defense and defense i mean i think he i think he's your shortstop next year i think he should be i think if galvis can be a utility guy i'm fine with that no no no i would look to trade freddie galvis if i could i know it's like heresy i know everybody everybody loves Freddie around here. No, I would, too. I would, too. I would, too. But, I mean, he's an asset. He's a defensive asset.

Who has turned himself into a good enough hitter. Yes, he's got some pop. With a little bit of pop. Last year of a contract. You know, I think the Phillies. He should be batting eighth in a good lineup is the point. I think the Phillies look at him and they almost wish that he played another position or, like, if this is position. I'm trying to think.

The 93 Phillies, the 2008 Phillies with the third baseman. Like, Patriot Phillies wasn't a great third baseman. He was what they needed for that run. He could play decent defense. He had a good bat. He had some pop to him. You know what I mean? You wouldn't want him to be your third baseman forever,

but for that period of time with the rest of the team around him, he was perfect for what they needed. And Freddie Galvis can be a perfect player for a team that needs a veteran shortstop. All they need is their defense and some RBIs and some home runs. Yes, that's exactly right. And he could be a really nice piece for a team like that.

A team would be like, wow, he's good. Yeah, he'll put us over the top, especially if you have a bad defensive shortstop. I think he's viewed like that, too. I think he is, too. I think he has some value. I mean, he's good. Yeah, he'll put us over the top, especially if you have a bad defensive shortstop. I think he's viewed like that, too. I think he is, too. I think he has some value. I mean, he's really good defensively. The thing is, is that in this city, because we do what we do sometimes,

we've kind of overinflated his defense. I've heard people talk about him as the best defensive shortstop in the game. You know what I do, right? You know what my trick when people say that? I say, who's the second best? And they have no answer, right? And they have no answer because they don't know. I always just say, have you watched Anderton Simmons play ever in your life?

Let's just say this. Freddie Galvis is a good defensive shortstop. He's top tier. He's top 10. Yeah, he's a top tier shortstop. He's like a top 10 guy in the league. And he's very good at it. He's very good at it.

And the bat has come along, as you're about to say. But there's a young guy you drafted in the first round that really kind of fits what the Phillies are trying to do with on-base percentage and stuff like that. Well, I think, look, I think right now Crawford is kind of at Galvis' floor. I think he could step in and play defense just as good and eventually better or at least close to. Oh, don't tell people that. I know. They freak out. But you saw what he could do.

He bet third base. He never played that position. I, don't tell people that. I know, they freak out, but you saw what he could do. He bet third base he never played that position. I'm not going to name names, but in the middle of the season, no, actually, when he was struggling big time, everybody started piling on, and this is what I heard from people that I'm not even going to go any further because

people that work for the organization that were telling me that scouts don't think that he's good enough to be an everyday shortstop defensively. And I said, how come this is the first time I've heard anything bad about his defense? Because his average is below 200. That's the only reason.

Bobby Brea won a gold glove when he hit three whatever, right? Yep. Now all of a sudden his defense stinks because he wasn't hitting. His defense is fine. Yeah. He's going to be just fine. He showed he could play three positions. And never played in the majors.

And he's 22 years old. He's a baby. He looked good over third base. And he's athletic. He's going to develop physically. I mean, you and I have talked about this a ton. But Freddie Galvis is what, 28, 29 years old? Where was he at 23?

Exactly. And also, you don't reach your physical peak as a human being or as a baseball player until 26, 27, 28. He had more pop last year than he had in some other years. Frankly, I worry because I have an app on my phone. It's the MILB app where, for the most part, you can watch every AAA and AA game. I love it. And you can archive it the next day. But you also have, you can watch a lot of the Lakewood, South Atlantic, and some Clearwater.

But anyway, I watch a lot of these games. I am. I'm walking my daughter around the block in the stroller, and I'm watching Reese Hoskins at bats in AAA. That's such a loser. But yeah, so I watch these guys, and I'm not all that surprised when they come up. Let me give you an example of this season. Let's get back on track about this season and not debate in Galveston or J.P. Crawford.

I was not surprised when Reese Hoskins came up. I was surprised when he obviously had the success that he did. But what everybody said about Hoskins, and you saw it when you watched his at-bats, was he gave you a professional at-bat every time he was up. It's the approach. He's hot, and we saw at the end of the season, he'll go hot and cold.

He won't get a home run for two weeks, but then when he's hitting, the average goes down to 260, and then the average goes right back up to 300. He's hot, he's cold, which isn't great, but what he always does. Is get on base. He always walks. That's the point. You're exactly right, John. That's the difference.

That's the difference, is that he's always going to be an asset to you offensively, even when he's slumping. And he showed that, look, yeah, he's the, you know, second half, I guess, of his season, if you want to look at it that way, the last, you know, 18 games or whatever it was, as opposed to the first 18 games or 20. Obviously, there was a stark difference, but you had to look, first of all, what he did in those first 18 games was historic, like never been done before in the history of the sports stuff. Like he had more homers in his first 31 games was historic. Like, never been done before in the history of the sports stuff. Like, he hit more homers in his first

31 games than anyone had hit in their first 36 or whatever. I would come back after the I would come on after the game and just be like, I can't believe I'm saying this again. Like, how does he do it? Yep. And that's the beauty is that because of the walks, because of the approach and stuff, like, look, no one's ever going to hit home runs at that pace. You know, he's

not going to have 86 home runs. And he's not going to be a 55-a-year home run type of guy. No, he's 35. 35, 40. He'll have a year where he maybe gets close to that. That happens, but he's always going to be a 400-ish or more on base percentage guy, and that is so incredibly valuable. And that's what you saw at AAA, and that's why I wanted to see him come up earlier because I knew at the very least

there wasn't anybody, there really hasn't been anybody on the team that has seen as many pitches and worked at bats like that since Jason Wirth. And before that, Bobby Abreu. That was the thing. As soon as he came up, you see it happening throughout the rest of the lineup. Yeah, I mean, it's contagious. Why wouldn't guys look around and be like, what's he doing right there? He recognizes the situation.

He realizes that if he's down 1-2, he's not going to see a fastball over the middle of the plate. He realizes in a 3-1 count, a runner on second base, they're not going to throw him a fastball 3-1 with a runner on second base and an open base. He knows the game. He thinks the game. It's the approach, like we said. And that's not something, like Mikel Franco comes up and tries to swing out of his cleats every time yep and you wonder if he can kind of if he learns by some of these guys you hope I'm like uh I'm so at the point with

Mikel Franco where I just I I have to see him do it to ever believe he's actually going to do it because like you said it's it's those guys who are so physically gifted and so talented that they think they can just get by on that and you can't at that level. He's a mistake hitter or if he's looking fastball and he gets it. He's got quick hands. He can still turn on a ball. He led the team in homers,

didn't he? Yeah, 24 home runs or something like that. In a bad year. That's the point. He had like a 280-something on-base percentage. Like if you go up and you pitch like pitchers on the whole of a season, pitchers will give up those 24 home runs for the 287 on-base percentage. Of course they will. 100% of the time. And I'd like to go back and see – I call them Lieberthal home runs.

And whether that's fair or not, he would hit home runs when they're down 8-2. Yeah, he did hit a lot of those. Where the pitcher's just trying to get through the innings and throw a fastball. And, hey, he's hitting them out of the park. So you have to give him credit for it. It's a great point, though. It matters because you're not going to see those in big games where it matters. You're not going to see those types of pitches, you know?

You're not. You're not going to see them. And I think he's a really interesting guy getting back to kind of where the team is and looking to next year. I think he is the guy who is most unsure of the kind of, you know, current starting crop. I think kind of the opposite. A guy who heading into this past year I wasn't expecting anything from, at least at that level, but now I consider a piece of the future is Aaron Altair.

That's a guy who – Agreed. Because of the approach. Again, like this guy goes up and he has a professional approach at the plate, and now I think he's a real piece of the future. He's got power, can play multiple positions. All right. So in subsequent weeks we'll talk more about detailed play

because there's a lot to talk about. By the way, I'm not getting rid of Tommy Joseph just to get rid of Tommy Joseph. You can stack a right-handed lineup and put Hoskins. Hoskins has showed you he can play left field to a Pat Burrell-type level to where if you have a tough lefty in there, put Tommy Joseph at first base. Let him get some at-bats. He's not useless. He should be a platoon guy.

He should be coming off the bench and playing once a week. If you can get something for him, trade him. But I don't feel like there's a lot of value out there for Tommy Joseph. There's not. Sadly. So keep him for depth. Yeah. Why not?

The only time you could have maybe traded him for value is at the deadline where there's a team that absolutely needs a right-handed power bat to compete. Everybody sniffed out what Joseph is. Right, but he's just not, you know, he's just not anything special. All right, so let's talk about the manager. Because, you know, it's funny. I remember doing shows with Howard on off nights, with Howard Eskin on off nights, where I would, not that I blame Pete

McKinnon but this is what I said about him right now he's not getting the most out of his team now what probably really was the case was he had a couple players that had talent that were cold and the rest of the players couldn't play remember Michael Saunders sure um Howie Kenter could hit but he was hurt and then once he got players you saw them right around the 500 mark post-All-Star break. So what I said to Howard was, managers that lose that many games don't keep their jobs. Whether it's their fault or not, we know it's not his fault. Is it his fault that the Phillies didn't win something? Of course it's not.

But I thought he had done enough to keep his job when I really wasn't looking at the big picture, which the big picture was the Phillies are ready to get their guy, their manager, to lead this team going forward. And it wasn't going to be Pete McKinnon, and I think they knew that. Yeah, I actually said on the Phillies Today pod, for any of the few listeners out there who listened to that at the end of the season. Well, you tweet that out, right? Yeah, I was saying it, though. I did not expect him to be back because, and like you said,

I thought they wanted to find their guy and move forward. You've youth now you want to start you want to move forward but more importantly just on like a more basic level i looked at the situation where they gave him an extension in season this year because they didn't want him to be a lame duck manager right so they gave him that extra year you're not going to let him go into this year without either committing to him for another year so he's not lame dog and You're right back where you started. I just didn't see them doing that. I didn't think they ever believed he was the guy. He's an interim guy.

He's a baseball lifer. He's a good baseball man. He's a great baseball guy. But this is a team. You're about to have a team of 20-year-olds and 21 and 22. You need someone who understands working with you, someone who doesn't maybe have that rigid old school type attitude. And for what it's worth, I do think McKinnon, more than most of those baseball lifers,

actually did have a pretty fresh view on things like the way he tried to use his bullpen. You know, it didn't work out, but I thought I liked that he wasn't at least like bound to this guy has to be my closer. You know, so he did a lot of things right. He handled it. He was honest with the media. So I will give him credit. He did a lot of things right. He was honest with the media. I felt like maybe he could have been a little bit tougher on Odubel or handled Odubel a little bit differently. That were my issues.

The clubhouse stuff. It never seemed like it was super great. The Neshek thing where he said he couldn't go back out. He asked Neshek and he said he couldn't go back out. And then Neshek comes out and was like, I can pitch. Imagine saying that to Larry Boa. That's what I mean. He put you through a wall. Yeah, that kind of stuff just bugs me. I feel like

you should have control of that. You know what bothered me and I feel like Pete has been successful because people like him. Because he's a good dude. You can tell that he's a good dude. Yes. But when the whole Franco thing happened where he was just like, hey, my office door is always open. It's your job to go to the guys. Especially when you speak Spanish

and you have a connection with these Latinos that maybe the average white manager doesn't. It's your job to say, like, hey, get in here. That's the relationship you have with your players, just to have it like, hey, my office door is open. If you've got something to say or a question, come in. Terry Francona isn't like that. Charlie wasn't like that. Charlie wasn't a tactician.

He wasn't a guy that technically was maybe as good as some of the other managers out there. But no one handled people and had relationships better than those guys. Joe Torre was a failed manager. Like, he sucked at it his first time around. Mets. Mets. And then he goes to the Yankees with that group of guys, that situation, and now he's a whole same manager.

The right manager for the right time, too. A bunch of young guys that looked at him like a dad. Exactly. They're just guys who are, I think a lot of stuff is situational, but they're also guys who are just really good at handling personalities. And if you put them in a situation where a lot of guys are going to make plays for themselves, don't need you to necessarily be the best strategic manager on the planet, and you can just kind of get this group of a bunch of guys together and make it work you know that's a real skill which leads us to

this question so who should be the new manager and i just and i'm gonna say it and i know it's never gonna happen but did you imagine charlie manuel coming back and working with these kids now i know he's in his 70s and it's not gonna happen but he loves the sport it's not gonna happen he loves the sport so much he wants to be around it. And the thing about Charlie, and I was definitely, like, when he was done, he was done. And I was fine with, you know, them moving on and all that. At that point, it was done. I felt like he had run his course. And I was also one who, when he came in, I love the Indians.

They're like my AL squad of one who I follow and pay attention to. When I was seven, Major League came out. Loved it. Thus, you know, choose the worst team in baseball to like because I already like the other worst team in baseball. So, you know, that was fun. So they're a male squad. But I knew Charlie from over there, too. I watched him there.

Like, he is not a strategic mind. It was Mike Hargrove first, and then Charlie was the hitting coach who took over when Hargrove was. Exactly. But Charlie knows hitting and baseball. Like, there were things that that guy brought to the table that I don't think necessarily came across to you

when you heard his press conferences. He wasn't necessarily, and to go against the current Phillies regime, the front office, they're all about on-base percentage and analytics, and Charlie's about hitting. He said, I'm not worried about walking, I'm worried about hitting. And for that team it worked. But no, I mean, seriously, I know

that there's been some names that are that have been floated out there i heard ruben amaro which was put out there um as well and i think that's and i was talking to howard asking about it tonight it's pretty cool someone who knows a lot about walks oh wait right yeah ruben doesn't believe that either but i think that that gets put out there just to kind of elevate his name to where maybe he can get another job. And I love that Ruben wanted the same baseball and actually was like, hey, I'll be a first base coach. That's amazing. I respect the crap out of that dude. Like, look, he wasn't a great general manager.

That's fine. He did some good things. I think he probably gets a worse rap than he deserves. But at the same time, you know, he wasn't a good general manager. Made some good trades. He did. And in hindsight, some stuff's looking better. Some of these prospects are his doing and whatnot.

Correct. But I don't think he should have been the general manager. But how could you not respect him saying, you know what, I love baseball. I think I'd be really good at this totally other thing, and I'm going to start, essentially, start over in those ranks to try and get there. Like, good for him, man. All right. So who do you want?

Not Ruben Amar. It's a great question. There are a few guys that I like. I don't think that I... I would be happy with any of these guys because there are none that I know on an internet. I don't want Brad Ausmus. I don't want anything to do with Brad Ausmus.

I'm fine with Dusty. I think he knows a lot of these kids. He's not getting it. I don't think he's going to get it anyway, but I'd be fine with someone like that. I don't need someone who's been a major league manager. I like Joey Cora a lot. I think they bring in an experienced guy, not necessarily as a manager, but a major league guy. Someone who's been a major league guy.

I agree. And then Watham comes up as the bench coach. If you don't know, we're talking about Dusty Watham, who's been through this organization AA two years ago now, triple-A last year. And very highly regarded. Knows all of these young players who really like him. So I think it makes sense for him to be on the Major League staff.

Totally. And I think you're right. I think that'd be a jump to put him in that role. So I'm just looking here. So Howard had reported that, where's the name? Tim Bogar. Former player I remember. Yeah, I remember Tim Bogar.

Like, you know, he spent a while in the majors. He's been with the Rangers or Red Sox. Orioles at one point, I think. Yeah, and he was in the Angels front office. That's where he knows Matt Klintak from. So that's a really interesting name. So I'll be honest with you. I want a veteran guy like a Buck Showalter.

And I know he's under contract and he just signed an extension and you'd have to trade for him. I'm not saying Buck Showalter because he may end up being the guy that can't get it done and then you have to bring in Joe Torre to finish it off. But I know what he would do, kind of like Tito Francona does, and it's why he's the best manager in baseball. He puts a team together. He knows what to do with a team.

He knows roles. He knows how to keep a loose clubhouse for guys that are successful. And Buck's a little bit more of a hard ass, but his players play for him, and he knows what he's doing technically. He's a great manager. Everywhere he's gone, his teams have gotten better. Buck Showalter is a terrific manager. He's never gotten over the top, like you said, but he was great with the Yankees.

He's been great with this Orioles team, especially. I mean, the pitching staffs he's had in Baltimore, and he's found ways to contend and make the playoffs. He wins games. He's a great manager. I mean, I'm with team, especially. I mean, the pitching staffs he's had in Baltimore, and he's found ways to contend and make the playoffs. He wins games. He's a great manager. I mean, I'm with you, too. I think Terry Francona, like, it's so funny to say it, right, because I'm sure there are at least some Phillies fans out there

being like, no way, he stinks. But, like, Terry Francona has turned into, never got nearly enough credit for what he did in Boston, and now in Cleveland, if you watch the playoffs last year. Cleveland was terrible when he went there. Dude, and what he did last year with, I mean, he redefined how you use bullpens in the playoffs. He changed the game with Andrew Miller and what he did bringing that guy in. And you need a pitcher who's willing to do that and all that stuff.

But he has just such a feel for his club and such an ability to manage a roster through big games. So impressed. So I'm with you. I would be fine with something like that. But on the flip side, it doesn't have to be someone like that for me. No, it doesn't. Like I be fine with something like that. But on the flip side, it doesn't have to be someone like that for me. No, it doesn't. Like I said, a young former player. May not be available, James.

Look, one year left on his contract. I'd be surprised if Baltimore doesn't want to keep him. He's done a really good job there. But you know with Angelos down there, you never know what's going on. No, yeah, absolutely. Well, here's what I'll say about it. I don't think he'll be available. And they don't have to go veteran manager in my mind.

They just have to get the right guy. If there's a veteran guy out there, I'm not saying go out and hire, God, I'm trying to think of a major retread manager. You don't have to hire a major league manager with experience. Ron Gardner is the name that has popped up a lot. He's the veteran guy that's available. Right, and knows McPhail from Minnesota. It has to be a success.

And actually, of those types of guys, I actually really like Ron Gardenhier. I do too. He's a really good manager. He made a lot out of Minnesota teams that never really had all that talent in the world either. I'd be happy if they did. Yeah. But you know what? I'm wondering and it's the show order thing, but it's also, a lot

of it has to do with John Middleton. John Middleton, who is now in charge. This is his Phillies team. It's not the Montgomery, of it has to do with John Middleton. John Middleton, who is now in charge, this is his Phillies team. It's not the Montgomery, Buck, Betts, this is Middleton. A million percent. And he wants to win, and if he sees a manager out there that he knows is the guy, he's going to go out and get him. If that means

trading, if that means signing big money contracts, he's just not going to be okay with, oh yeah, let's hire this guy and give him a couple years. He wants to win, and if he sees somebody out there that, whether it's a trade or somebody that's unhappy, just not going to be okay with, oh, yeah, let's hire this guy and give him a couple years. He wants to win. And if he sees somebody out there that, whether it's a trade or somebody that's unhappy, he's going to investigate it. So you never know what can happen, James. That's just what I say.

And I think that's a really good point, especially, like you said, look, a motivated owner can make a lot of things happen. You know, we've seen it with the Yankees for years, like it or hate it. You know, if your owner's willing to shell out a bunch of cash, you can make a lot of things happen that other teams can't make happen. And I think Middleton's willing to put his money where his mouth is, especially for something like a manager where, you know, it doesn't affect any sort of, you know,

any sort of luxury tax or anything like that. Like that's, I mean, in all sports, and obviously baseball doesn't have a hard salary cap or a salary cap. The luxury tax is quite punitive now, which has kind of had some similar effect to that but you know um the the greatest mitigator for anything like that is like why not just pay bunches of money to the best managers best coaches because you don't get regulated in that but right regardless i could see middleton spending whatever it takes but i also do think that again with this youth with the way this club is, I think

it does make sense that if there is a bright young baseball guy that you believe in, that you think is the next guy, go for it. Whether it's Bogart, whether it's McEwing, whether it's Cora, like, look, the next great manager who isn't a manager now is out there somewhere. You can find him. If it's a young

manager, Boa stays on the staff. If it's a veteran manager, he's probably not on the staff and watham becomes the bench coach or the base coach or whatever would larry be willing to like go from bench coach to third base or to first base because i think he could stay on the staff that way i think i think the organization really likes he has keep him here they will both sides have said and boa has been on record his priority is staying in philadelphia if that means not on the baseball staff and working as a roving instructor or whatever.

He'll just go to different affiliates and work on defense. He's a baseball guy. And Larry doesn't need to be anywhere else. He needs to stay here and I think he's going to, but really the manager's going to dictate whether he's back on the bench. For sure. I think back on the bench is a perfect call. I think that an organization can say, hey, make this guy your first base coach,

make him your third base coach, whatever it is. I think your bench coach should be your guy. I mean, that's the guy you're talking to all game. You're running every strategy by. And the Phillies to a younger manager can say, like, hey, listen, Larry's been there. He knows how to do it. He's great with this. He's great with that.

And a younger manager is going to be like, okay. They're not swinging a stick where they can say no. They're getting their first job managing in the majors in some of these cases. You're bringing Buck Showalter. You're not telling him. You're not even giving suggestions. If you're even bringing in a guy like that, they're choosing their own staff. They're choosing –

Well, that's where you suggest Watham and be like, hey, this is an up-and-coming guy, first base coach. Yep, just get him on the field somewhere. I agree. But pitching coach, bench coach, that decision would be Bucs or Garden hires or whatever, I think. James, let me ask you about Andy McPhail and Matt Klintak before we get out of here on the first episode

of High Hopes. The first episode of High Hopes, John Marks and James Seltzer. You know, I was under the impression when Andy McPhail was hired was he was hired because he's ran baseball organizations before, although his title was president and he has a gm that works underneath him that he would be making a lot of the baseball decisions being that he's done it before on a few different spots and i was okay with that because

structure in baseball is important right it's like you got a guy that's done it before he knows how to run a farm system he knows how to build from the bottom up, which is what the Phillies were trying to do. And he brings in Matt Klintak to be his GM. Now, I had even said, this is a McPhail production. Like, what are we talking about Klintak? Now, McPhail's actually saying in the year-end press conference, no, Matt's making the baseball decisions. He has the final say.

And I'm going to try to be fair here because Klintak made some good moves in the offseason. We know the great moves he didn't make. He was able to get some trades through waivers and things like that. He did a good job making trades at the trade deadline. Klintak's the one that's deciding what's going on with the Phillies in the future. I didn't realize that's what we were signing up for when he came to town. Yeah. First and foremost, I actually, I actually really liked that, whether it's true or not, that McPhail gave autonomy to Klintak

in that public forum and said, like, listen, this is the guy running Baseball Ops. And I do think that, look, you're the president of the team overall. You do have a lot more going on. You need a GM you can count on. Having said that, look, Pat Gillick was the president of Baseball Hobbs, right? And we had Ruben Amaro in there. I don't think anyone really believed that Ruben Amaro was making all the decisions, even though Pat Gillick said he's making decisions. So I think that McPhail is certainly involved, especially

in the big stuff. Sure, they're having conversations. They're having conversations. The manager, you know, look, Klintak will have a big voice in what manager they're bringing in. He's not bringing in someone where McPhail's like, I don't want that guy. Well, are you ready? McPhail, Middleton, and Klintak, I would say all have close to the same amount of say, right?

Yeah, I mean, look. Middleton doesn't, Middleton's not going to go out and be like, I want this guy. Middleton will not overrule them, but ultimately has top say regardless, right? But Middleton will say like, what about Buck Showalter? What about this manager? What about that player? I mean, if he's managing, if But Middleton will say, like, what about Buck Showalter? What about this manager? What about that player? I mean, if he's emailing the GM being like,

why are we losing these games after a loss? You can be damn sure that he's involved in the manager search. Oh, my God, yeah. And here's the thing. Like, I like Matt Klintak. I think what he did do at the trade deadline you mentioned was really savvy. I mean, not only the moves to bring in guys like Kendrick and Neshek and these guys on a lower budget

who you could specifically bring in to flip for assets, but the getting international money, I mean, that's something that other teams aren't really taking advantage of. Nerd alert. Nerd alert. Yeah, nerd alert. But listen, teams are given such a small allotment of international money, and this guy found a way to kind of skirt around the system.

They have like like, what? Japanese Babe Ruth? Yeah, Japanese Babe Ruth, baby. No, he's going to get—that guy's going to get paid. But regardless, I think just the idea that they have that kind of advantage and just that he's thinking that way. Like, I'm a Bill James, Sabermetrics, old-school baseball—it's funny, I'm saying old school baseball stat guy, but it's not old school in that way. But I believe in just looking for market inefficiencies, Moneyball type of thing. Efficiency.

Moneyball has become this, I think it's all about walks and all that. It's about finding inefficiencies in the market. It's about looking and saying, all right, what's the next best way that I can get an advantage on my competition? And I feel like that's the next best way that I can get an advantage on my competition? And I feel like that's the kind of thing that Klintag's doing there, and I love to see stuff like that. So that made me very optimistic. But I also don't want them to live and die by that. Of course not.

No, he needs to prove himself. He has not made any moves that are earth-shattering. But I also think they haven't done a lot. Look, they've kind of hamstrung until now. Not much they can do. The fact that they only have Odo Bolero on the books past this season, you have so much money. At a very good contract. Yes, which is so underrated. People always complain about it. Which we'll talk about.

We'll talk about the players. We will totally talk about that. We're going to do this every week. I'm bullish on Glenn Tech. Baseball's a young man's sport in terms of guys running teams and I believe that he could do it. No, you're right, it is. The NFL has 31-year-old head coaches now,

and you can see what Sean McVay did out in Los Angeles. I mean, Theo's not that much older than Klintec, and he's won World Series Red Sox and the Cubs already. And you saw that trend go with Theo, and John Daniels down in Texas was a young guy. But here's the one thing I worry about with Klintec is, and I don't necessarily believe it, but I saw a lot of it after McKinnon got fired.

In fact, our friend Jack Fritz tweeted it out. Something like, guaranteed that they hire a young analytics manager. And it's like, listen, I'm all down with analytics. They had 14 full-time front office personnel with analytics. They said they were hiring more. They could hire 100 people. That's great. I'm all down for that.

I'm looking for any advantage to draft players, to win on the field, all that. But you can't hire a guy just because. I'm not telling you to go out and hire Jack McKee and who's going to be like, well, bleep you and your analytics. I want a manager to embrace it. But this is baseball. Totally agree with you. I mean, this is baseball.

This is a game that it's very hard to explain sometimes. Totally. And look, I think, and I don't know what Fritz exactly meant by that, I think it's something in the realm of a Joe Maddon type guy. Someone who is super friendly towards analytics, someone who believes in that type of stuff. But it's not like Joe Maddon bases every single thing he does off the numbers. There's a lot of other stuff.

There's a feel sometimes. There's a feel. But you also, I think Jack, at least in the numbers, you know, there's a lot of other stuff. There's a feel sometimes. There's a feel. But there's, you also, I think Jack, at least in the spirit, is right in the sense, they'll want someone who's willing to look at this information and utilize the stuff that he thinks is valuable. Like all being equal, what do they want for a manager? See, I don't even know. I don't know what they're thinking right now. Because I don't think they know who's even going to be available.

I don't think they know who they want yet. Yeah, I don't think they went into this with a specific guy. I think they just knew that they weren't going to keep Pete, that he wasn't the guy. So I think that they're going into this somewhat with a fresh kind of outlook. At least that's my perspective. They might go in and Tim Bogard was their guy all along or whatever it is. But I think they're going to look for someone who, like we said,

is friendly towards analytics or at least somewhat open to that type of stuff. But I think it's kind of what we've been talking about. I think they're going to look for someone who they believe is going to be good with youth. Someone who is going to be good at developing kids, at understanding the struggles that some of these kids will go through, and helping them correct it and develop. I think that that is going to be the number one thing they're looking for in a manager. Yeah.

What Charlie Manuel did with that team is what I'm looking for out of. And you can have an analytics guy that comes in, but really it's about developing the young players. And when they bring in the high-priced veteran, which they will, now you have to mesh the high-priced veteran ego with the rest of the team. And listen, Charlie Manuel, the biggest thing he did was getting those egos together. And really, I mean, that was a great team. That was a great clubhouse.

That was a fun team to watch. Yes. Charlie was pushing all the right buttons with those guys. Absolutely. And that was what, you know, kind of, I don't think ever really got the credit he deserved for was like we said, just taking all these personalities, all these talented egos and people. Think about, think about just, it's like just it's like August, like the middle of August,

and just kind of sitting there watching a game, and they pan to the dugout, and Charlie's sitting there yapping to Jimmy. And Jimmy's, you know, like standing in the hole, coming up in a couple of bats, laughing at Charlie because he's doing the – you know what I'm saying? Yeah, what it is, what it is. Right, and you could just see the way he connected with those players was amazing.

Yeah, especially considering the age gap and stuff like that. It was really that. Oh, he loved them. And he loved the game and he loved to be around the game and around hitters. Still does. Exactly. And I do think it'll be someone like that as well. Someone who's a real love for the game because you need that to work with the kids and to really kind of

infuse that passion for the sport into these kids. Personality. Not Ryan Sandberg. And someone, yeah, not Ryan. Perfect example because you need someone with a presence. Because you have these kids, you've got kids coming in. Nice man. Great baseball player.

Great player, not great manager. You need someone with a presence, someone who can stand up in the locker room and have all these kids and then Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and whoever it is that you bring in. The Cubs hired a ball boy over Ryan Sammer. Go along with what you're doing. It takes a lot to be that type of person. Well, it's going to be fun. And before we know it, it's going to be hot stove.

And the Phillies will very much be involved, whether it's free agency or a trade. And we'll talk about that coming up in subsequent weeks. We would love to talk about playoff baseball. However, we don't know when this is going to go is going to be published. So right now we're watching game four of the Yankees and the Indians, and we just

I was just watching the Cubs beat the Nationals. Which will sound really silly when we release this in like a week or something. Yeah, or later this week. But you can count on this, that High Hopes, this is our first podcast, we're going to be doing it every week, and it's going to be a lot of fun. And we look forward to growing with the audience,

just like the team's growing with the fan base right now. That was good. Very good. Anything else there, Seltzer? No. How could I do better than that line? No profanity. We didn't curse, and BGN always curses, soeltzer? No. That was perfect. How could I do better than that line? No profanity. That was perfect.

We didn't curse, and BGN always curses, so I know you guys. I don't know if there are some enterprising listeners out there. Go back. There were at least four times where I was this close, and I thought I was going to do it, but I didn't. What's your Twitter? At James Seltzer. Pretty tough to remember.

At John Marks Media. So the at John Marks was already taken. So tweet us. We'll be talking. Listen, we love the Eagles, but we're talking baseball this winter, James Seltzer. All right, talk to you later. Talk to you next week. See you.

Bye, guys. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen. We have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast.

It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and it's now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is another fact so jump aboard the bib express follow and listen to baseball isn't boring presented by wasabi hot cloud storage on the free odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts