High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: Growing Pains For Painter

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

Jack Fritz reacts to the Phillies' 12-1 loss and takes a look at what rookie pitcher Andrew Painter has been struggling with in his last couple starts. Presented by Miller Lite. To purchase Ring The Bell by Jack Fritz and Kevin Reavy go to RingTheBellBook.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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BetmGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Oh, well, that sucked, huh? Holy cow. 12-1. It felt like the series right before the All-Star break in 2024 all over again. Or the A's are just teeing off and humiliating the Phillies at CBP tonight. Thankfully, they did win two of three in classic 20-25 Phillies fashion, because I do think the Phillies are close to being back to their 2025 fashion.

They win the first two games of the series and then lose the third one, leaving us feeling like, hey, awesome, they won the series, but also could we also just complete a suite? Welcome on in. It is the final out. sponsored by the Philadelphia Parking Authority. Jack Fritz hanging out with you here on what is a tense night in Philly Sports. Last night, also a tense night. Our winner teams are on the brink.

And the Phil's get smoked tonight at CBP. The game wrap-up is sponsored by Roto Router. When plumbing problems hit, wrap them up quick and call Roto Router. Their team tackles clogs and leaks so you can stay in the game. Roto Router, your MVP for plumbing solutions. 215-5-592-94 if you are on your way home from the ballgame and want to vent about this one or talk about it. We'd love to hear from you. Or if you watched one on your couch like I did, although going to be honest, I got home, it was already for nothing.

And then I went to, you know, sometimes I have to drive my kids around to get him asleep. So drove Sadi around. Still getting blasted. By the time I got home, it was like 8. nothing, I think. And I was like, you know what? I got to run some groceries. I got to get some stuff. And I was, of course, watching on my phone around the grocery store like a psycho. And if anyone stopped me, they'd be like, hey, are you really this absurdly locked in on an 8-0 Philly's game in May 7th? And I would say, yes, I am. Absolutely. No doubt about it. So it was, I would say it was easy to check out of

this one early, which definitely stinks. The biggest takeaways of the game, brought to you by Morgan and Morgan America's largest injury law firm. And the Phillies, as of right now, having Andrew Painter problem. He is brutal right now. And here's where I met with Andrew Painter. Like, I'm not going to do the Dumer. This guy's a bust. He's always going to be bad.

He stinks. They should have traded him. Can you believe that they made this guy untouchable? There are countless examples throughout Major League Baseball history of great pitcher. who come up, most of them, high schoolers, and struggle. And then maybe you have to get sent back down or just have to go through some growing pains and things like that. And right now, Andrew Painter is getting his lumps. I mean, that is what he is dealing with.

I think that at times he shows flashes. He does show the ability to throw a bunch of pitches. He does show a 95 plus mile an hour fastball gets into 98's. Does he have a fastball problem? Yes, I feel like I've been talking about it at nauseam, talking about his fastball problems. Does the secondaries have to get better? Yes, they have to get better. Does his command have to get better?

100%. I mean, his command is a big, big problem right now. But Andrew Painter is going through growing pains right now. I do not think that he is going to be, I think he's going to be a very good pitcher. Do I think he's going to be an ace of the staff? I'm not going to say that as of right now. But what I'm saying is you just got to give this time. You have to give this time.

But for right now, he stinks. Like if you're just evaluating it from the standpoint of 2026, Andrew Painter, what you're watching start to start, it's Taiwan-ish. I mean, that's what it is. And the biggest thing, there's a couple things that have to get fixed here. one, you just can't be, you can't try to be so perfect all the time. And I think he still has to learn how to pitch. You can have a bunch of different pitches.

You can throw a bunch of different things. But what takes time is learning how to pitch. And I don't think he knows how to pitch yet. Because what happens when you know how to pitch is you're more efficient. Right now, he's just throwing. Right now he's got a bunch of pitches, but he doesn't, work them off of each other. He doesn't know how to set up hitters to get them out. He can't figure out how to chase early contact and have some easy inning so that he can pitch

longer into an outing. I mean, it feels like every single Andrew Payne or batter is 3-2 and they've already fouled off two pitches. That's an issue. He has to become more efficient. He has to develop better command. Fastball is all. all over the place. You know, I mean, the Rooker Home running is to spot by a foot. So the fastball's been a problem. I think it's a pitch that they are trying to hide. I think that they are trying to use all the off speed.

But the problem with that is that when the off speed isn't that good, I think his off speed is good if a fastball is elite. I don't think it's elite. Zach Wheeler, like, Zach Wheeler has an elite fastball. His secondaries are just good enough. I don't think Zach Wheeler has, like, elite secondary pitches that are, They are great pitches because of how great the fastball is. Andrew Painter right now is not of a great fastball,

and then his secondaries are meh because the fastball isn't great. So that's the issue with him right now. And when he gets to 3-2, I feel like sometimes he just gives in. So I think there's a toughness that has to develop with Andrew Painter. He's certainly going to be licking his wounds after this one. there's going to be, and this is not me saying that I think he is cocky or whatever, but this is going to humble you. This game will humble you.

It's why the game drives people crazy when they're playing it. And that's what I'm seeing from Andrew Painter right now. I mean, as of right now, he stinks. And that's a huge bummer because you just got rid of Zion Walker. At least you were like, hey, we get to see Andrew Painter pitcher. and you kind of watch them with your hand over your eyes, hands over your eyes, and you're like, peering out, saying, ah, please don't get blasted, please don't get blasted. I mean, those guys weren't missing.

You know, Rooker and Langalears and Kurt smoking the ball off of him and Jacob Wilson, who's a little slap hitter smoking a home run off of him. So, yeah, like, but while I say all of that, what I can't take and what I won't take, frankly, because it's just, I think it's dumb, person. I think it's dumb to sit here. Congratulations. If you want to, you know, give yourself a cookie. If you want to be like, oh, he's a bust.

And five years from now, you can be like, oh, I told, like, knock yourself out. I think you sound like a moron, to be completely frank. And he might end up being a complete bust. But six starts into a major league career, I am not writing off Andrew Painter. Cole Hamill's had same struggles after he had a dazzling debut. Roy Halliday got sent down to Single A. I mean, there are countless, countless examples throughout Major League Baseball. History of mostly, I mean, I think that high school pitchers take longer to develop.

I mean, Zach Wheeler didn't turn into Zach Wheeler. He showed flashes. He had a couple of seasons with ERAs and the threes of the Mets. But he didn't turn into Zach Wheeler until he didn't turn into Zach Wheeler until he he got here at like 29. So, like, I just think high school pitchers take a little bit longer to develop. He has stuff he has to work on. There is good raw stuff here.

I think the most important thing that has to happen for him is you have to get that fastball back to where it was pre-TJ. And, hey, maybe that won't happen. And if that doesn't happen, then we will be robbed of what I think was going to be a great career. So if you want to write him off and say he's a boss, I guess knock yourself. out. I think it's very a doomerish. I think it sounds stupid,

but if that's what you feel, you can feel that way. As of right now, he is certainly not doing his part, and that is a huge bummer. I also wouldn't send him down. I mean, there's no one really at the AAA level that's pitching well enough. Gene Cabrero was someone

that they've had in the pipeline for a little while. He got blasted tonight. Alan Ron Hell, who had him came up here for a cup of coffee. He got sent down. He's not pitching that well for Lehigh Valley right now. And don't even have the idea, and don't even waste my time with the idea of bringing up Gagewood. Like, he's in low A right now. And then the offense is just horrendous.

J.T. Ginn, doing that to you is embarrassing. But, you know, when it was 4-0 and 8-0 pretty quick, the offense kind of took themselves out of this one. 215.5.992 is how you get in. Jordan and Princeton. What's happening, pal? Good evening, Jack. Did I hear correctly that you're expecting a third child? Yeah, third boy. Wow, three boy.

I have two, and let me tell you something, I'm already outnumbered. I'm playing man to man, and you're moving to zone, so I wish you very good luck, sir. Thank you, pal. It's fun. It's all good stuff. As long as you have a big man up front like you, you can handle the squad. Oh, man, you know me. You know me.

It's definitely going to be more on my wife, but, yeah, We're doing our best. Now, you did not go to the game tonight, Jordan, I hope. No, no, I didn't. And to be honest, I didn't watch the game. And thank goodness I didn't watch the game because it was not a game that you needed to watch. But I just wanted to talk about how over the last couple of days, I've really seen some encouraging things out of this team, including the switch at third base tonight.

Because I really think that something that Rob Thompson couldn't do was ever ride the hot hands or make a decisive decision in changing the lineup. And making a big decision and changing the lineup, like Madingley did tonight, is something that you need to continue to do to shake the team up. And I think that, and I'm seeing just some short, really quick swings, seeing what I feel like is less swinging for the fences. And I hate that the managerial change again. I've talked about this, needed to do this,

but it seems like they're taking a different approach to playing baseball right now. And you're going to lose a couple here and there like they did tonight. And you can't write off Painter because he has a big. bad night. This kid is talented and he's enormous and I love tall pitchers in today's baseball. I think that Sanchez is a great example of how height gives a commanding advantage

over a batter. But it's been a very nice week and a half or so of Phillies baseball to contrast the time that I've spent managing my personal calendar around losing playoff games for our winter teams. Yeah, well, and I agree with you, Jordan.

I think there's been, basically how I felt about them last week and a half is that this is how they looked last year when they won 96 games. Are they going to win 96 games this year? No. Can they win 88 to 90 and be a wildcard team? Yeah, I think they can do that. And it feels like they're settling into this rhythm of,

hey, let's go win this series, Stack Series wins, and we'll see where we end up. They're obviously going to lose games. But there's a lot of good, I think, developing with the team right now, for sure, Jordan. A couple of years ago, my friends and I changed our text thread title to be Quest for 500. and we ended up going on a World Series run after that. So we reverted back to that in order to see if we can do that.

And I think just playing 500 baseball for a little bit is exactly what this team needs. And we didn't have expectations. I personally didn't have expectations of them winning a World Series this year. I was really concerned with the construct of the team. I was concerned with the level of play and the playoff last year. So if they can turn this around and not make it a miserable season, and I can enjoy some baseball as a fan and with my kids and my wife. I'm going to consider that a win right now.

I know. And I appreciate the phone call, Jordan. I said that today. I don't know if I sit on the air or just talking to Spike, but I feel similar. I don't think they're going to win the World Series. I think they're settling into being a very good baseball team. I hope they win the World Series.

There's actually some interesting developments in the minor leagues of players who are not, like, their top, top prospects. that are having good seasons that maybe they can flip in a deal so they're not giving up some of their top prospects, but that is not for final out conversations. But just don't ruin the summer, you know, like have people have that ballpark field again, have some fun, like, let's have a great Harper year, let's enjoy the all-star game, let's be in playoff contention, and hey, whatever happens in October happens, but just don't ruin the summer. And I certainly believe that they are on their way to not ruining the summer. I think that they're,

They are, now, Jordan said play 500 baseball. They can't play 500 baseball. I mean, they're going to have to start playing like 600 baseball from this point on and really get in a role with this thing. But, you know, still a positive series against the A's. I think they dodged a bullet by not have a Shay Langalears for the first two games of that series as he was enjoying the birth of his son. So he certainly made a difference tonight.

2-15-592-94-94. We'll get to the player of the game and the move that Maddenly made today that I wonder if they'll stick with tomorrow. We'll get to that. Coming up next here on the final out of Sports Radio 94WIP. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BetmGM Casino

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Deep Waters is a new UFC podcast from CBS Sports. Every Monday, myself, Dean Thomas, alongside with legends of the sport, Chris Widman, Jorge Masradale, and Dustin, Porriet, bring you inside the Octagon like no one else can. Deep Waters, new episodes every Monday, watch on YouTube, or listen on Apple, Spotify, and everywhere else you get podcasts. Bown-bao-na-da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na----- Welcome back. It is the final out.

I almost don't even want to, I just want to let some Zepplin play, to be honest with you. I'm like, I'll put you in a good mood. Because I've kind of pigeonholed myself on the afternoon show of playing 330 country. I was lobbying for Jack's Picks because I have actually been wanting to play like Zeppelin in some classic rock. But now you're going to continue to get bad country. And the only reason I play bad country is because I know that it will irk spike. I could mix in the good ones, but what's the fun in that? The player of the game is brought to you by South Jersey Gas.

Save Energy and Money with South Jersey Gas at SJG SaveEnergy.com. And my player at the game is J.T. Ginn, who held the Phillies to one run in eight innings. J.T. Ginn. And listen, J.T. Ginn, obviously, when you watch him, he had good stuff. And he was given a big lead. But still, it's a little much. It's a little much. Could have gone Langalears. Could have gone Rooker. you know, Nick Kurtz, who the A's put out a photo of his family at a Phillies game, you know, back in the day. And when I said back in the day with him, that probably was really 2013, 2014,

as I'm getting older and older. And there's a whole generation that has no idea what the 08 Phillies run was like. As I was out to lunch on Monday, I was out to lunch with Jill after we figured out we were having our third boy, a little celebratory lunch. And, you know, we got to lunch in Westchester, sitting next to a kid who must have just wrapped up his college semester. And he was talking to his grandpa. And there's nothing like the grandpa, grandson, sports conversations.

Because the grandpa always has the old school take. And the kids like, hey, you know, the stats say this. And the grandpa was like, ah, no interest in stats. And I don't know how it came up. But at one point, I did overhear the kids. kid say that he didn't know who Pat Burrell was. And that sent a cold shiver down my spine. It was like, wow, this is where we're at. This is where we're at. So J.T. again, shoved tonight. The A's finally woke up. I was surprised at how well the Phillies held down their offense this

entire series because I thought they're really, really, really solid offense. Kurtz, Langalears, Soderstrom, Rooker, Cortez is at a great year, Jacob Wilson, Lawrence Butler's great against Wrighties. Zach Gelloff, I like a lot. It can play third really well and center. So he's also a local kid from Delaware. Oh, but with Kurtz, yeah, he, all the trout dream trades from back in the day, we're bringing that back for old Kurtzie

because at the end of his contract, Bryce's contract, or at, well, as he is heading towards free agency, it'll be towards the end of the Bryce contract. We'll be out of here. We'll have Kurtz play first and Bryce can be the DH. That's the plan. Everyone needs to get on board. We're trading for Kurtzzi.

in a couple of years. We're going to bring the boy home, big Amish. I call him him, him, Tomy. That's a pretty good one. I want to make sure that that's on the record. That's pretty good. Thank you, pal, him, Tomy, because it looks just like him, you know, from the standpoint of a big-bodied kid, hands up high. I mean, that's Jim Tommy. If you don't remember Jim Tommy, look up Jim Tommy. So, yeah, Curtsy will be a Philly one day, 100%. Although I'm worried about the A's finally paying players. Now they're going to Las Vegas. So he probably won't be a Philly.

He's going to sign one of these monster contract extensions that all the kids seem to be signing these days. Now, Don Maddally did put out a new lineup today and had a Munozosa playing third base. That was a reset day for Alec Bohm. I wonder if that turns into more than just a day. You know, he said that, essentially he said, until my last day on Earth, I'm going to believe that Alc Bone can hit.

I wouldn't make that bet, Don. but clearly believes that Alkbaum is going to hit. I, too, believe he is not a 152 hitter. Do I think he's a super impactful hitter? I don't, but I think he's certainly better than this. But will he keep Sosa at third base tomorrow? It's certainly one to watch. Sosa didn't really do much tonight.

Obviously, he was fine defensively as he usually is, but didn't exactly spark the offense, although I'm not sure what would have sparked the offense. tonight. So we'll see if he does that tomorrow. Thomas is in Broomall. What's happening, Thomas? Hey, what's up? Yeah, painter struggled a little bit tonight. Oh, you can say that.

But, yeah, he's, you know, he's young. You know, we waited so long to get him up here. You know, I don't see, like, we waited like, you know, he was hurt last year or two years ago as ERA. So I don't see them bringing him down at all, if anything, maybe the bullpen, if he continues to destroy. He's juggled the way he is, learning pains and all. But, you know, it was a rough night.

You know, you've got the Rockies coming in now. Hopefully, you know, we can really, you know, bring some offense against this team. And then the Alibone thing I want to say is, you know, if he's not going to be an everyday guy and they platoon him, do you think, you know, his attitude towards the manager? I don't know if it would get to that point, but obviously he wants to play. He wants to show himself to the contract year. Do you think his attitude's going to change? Well, I appreciate the phone call, Thomas.

I don't think he would handle it very well. He's ever exactly screened to me, Mr. He's always been a little mopey to me, and I think being benched for a prolonged period of time wouldn't exactly help the mopiness. And we've seen a bit more, like, right, I mean, this is how baseball is. You know, we've seen more emotion from him recently,

he's really going through it. So, yeah, I don't think I don't think that's It's gonna like Make him fired up and more locked in out there I think he's just gonna get Mopier I guess Dave is in Maryland

I mean second segment You snuck in here, pal After a big night You know, it's a little disappointed Little disappointed Sorry, didn't see much of the game tonight My baseball team ended their season tonight with a playoff loss.

Ah, man, that's thanks. What round was it? What round was it? What round was it? It was the first round. We struggled with that. We couldn't hit the ball this year. We had decent pitching.

Did you feel like you're watching your also your other baseball team? Yes, yes. My softball team, though, with a big, big down eight four with two outs, nobody on, and the seventh came back and won 10-8 next inning. So good night for them. And if you don't mind me ask you, what part of Maryland? is this? Is this like more than that?

Near Annapolis. Near Annapolis. Okay. That's a little down there, but still. Yeah. So we, you know, have it wrapping up the spring season here. But anyway, back to the Phil's. Yeah.

Tough, tough night. And, you know, painter's going to have growing pains, obviously. I do like that when Mattingley said, you know, he told me he can come out in the third and he took the ball in the fourth. You know, he's not going to, you know, back down from situations, which is good. just to, you know, he's got to figure out, figure out his, you know, mechanics and, you know, Larry Anderson kept on saying tonight that he throws six pitches and he might need to, you know, consolidate those into three or four and try to master those.

Yeah. Hopefully we can take two out of three from the Rockies at least and, you know, keep the, keep the momentum going. I think tonight's just a blip in the radar, hopefully, and we'll go from there. I appreciate the phone call, Dave. Yeah, I think it's just a blip of the radar. I don't think this is too much to be concerned about. I mean, Painter basically took it out of, took it out of him. And, yeah, I think L.A. could have a point on that with the amount of pitches that he does throw.

You know, like Lazzardo, you've seen them shrink his arsenal. Sanchez tried out of the slider. Hasn't really worked for him as a plus plus pitch. It's still kind of just a tendency breaker and a full-me pitch. and yeah I think he's trying to have two different fastballs to just give the hitters

a different look right now I don't think he needs a sweeper and the curve ball and then I think the slider is actually a good pitch when he gets on top of it and the biggest thing that's going to come down to

for him is command and he's certainly taking his lumps right now I think he's shown good competitiveness from the standpoint of wanting to help the team you know Madeline talked about wanted to keep going in the Miami start,

wanted to keep going tonight. I remember after the Diamondbacks outing where he was great, he said that someone was going to lose their job if I didn't pitch today, and he wanted to go out there and help from that standpoint. So I think that stuff's good. On the mound, I would like to see a little bit more toughness. I think sometimes he gives it away a little bit. But, yeah, he's got stuff to work on.

And it's certainly been a discouraging start after what was a brilliant first one from him against the nationals back in, was that March, April? Either way, it was great. On the other side, we will look ahead to tomorrow. We'll get to the wow moment of the game that is now another concern for this team. Coming up next here on the final out on Sports Radio 94 WI-Bay. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $24.50 an hour.

Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields like software development and information technology. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. Left center, Crawford can't find it. Marsh coming over trying to bail him out. Still going over. He won't get there. It bounces on the track in front of the state farm sign. On his way home is Butler.

On his way into third is Gellaw. and a ball lost in the twilight by Crawford puts another run on the board for the A's. It's 9-1. Yeah, that is our wow moment of the game brought to you by the New Jersey Division of Travel and Tourism from Waterfalls to Fairways, mountain resorts to Lighthouse Tours. Find your wow right now at visit nj.com. The Crawford misplay. Had a couple shaky ones out there in Centerfield tonight.

And the Crawford thing, man, with him in the outfield, so for those of you that are huge fans of defensive metrics in baseball, which I am not. I'm not a huge defensive metrics guy because I think sometimes they just don't evaluate positioning and what they're looking to do. I just, I don't think it tells the whole story, I guess, would be my main point. Do I think that Justin Crawford is the worst, like defensive player in baseball? I don't. I'm not watching every single baseball player out there, but, you know, by defensive run saved,

he is 1,020th out of 120. So by that metric, he's the single worst defensive player in baseball, which is pretty jarring. And, you know, he doesn't get the best reads out there by the jump metrics, which yes, you can calculate how good a guy's jump is now in the Alphia. It's the third worst when it comes to that. So the Eric Davis two-week boot camp before spring training might not have totally fixed the Crawford Centerfield issue. And there is the thought of, well, how long do we keep just rolling him out there and why not just put Marsh there who, well, not great, is probably better than him out there at this point. And I got to say, like, I wouldn't do it. It might make the Phillies better today and tomorrow,

but I do want to see if he can eventually learn how to play with the position. Now I'm not sure he will be able to because I think sometimes that's something that you're born with, the ability to track a baseball. And I don't think he has that. I think in left field, he's fine, but I don't think he's a great defensive. outfielder, you know, as things move forward here. And we'll see what happens with Marsh. You know, Marsh is really, really playing well. We know that he's had two great, two back-to-back great regular seasons, but not much postseason success to show for it.

You know, what's the future with him? You know, he's got a year and a half left. He's hitting like, he's having great. Do you let him walk after that? Do you look to extend them? Or do you just trust that you have Norrie and Crawford coming up and that can be your center field left field combo and then you know right field to kind of figure out from there i mean i guess he could move on from marsh if or you can keep marsh and then move on from the doleys but man that's a not super power uh driven outfield for sure i don't know but the crawford center field thing is is is starting to get exposed it seems like multiple times a week now as as he's just not very good out there.

And he's not getting better. I actually worry that he's regressing. But still, he's got to, at this point in May, he's got to be able to do it. So it's costing them a little bit. But I wouldn't pull the plug on it yet, even though I certainly do not get the feeling that he's going to turn it into some wizard out there in center field. Tomorrow, it will be Hazer-Cissarto back in the mound. two straight great starts from

from Zeus facing a Rockies lineup who outside of Coors is a little bit different. They did beat the Mets today. Craig Kimbril had a grand slam in the eighth, so that was that put a nice smile on my face as to what was a brutal baseball day. Brutal baseball day also for the minor league teams tonight for the Phillies. They all got smoked. So

it's been a tough, tough day up and down New York. They're facing Chase Dolander who pitched really well against them early in the year in Colorado. last outing he got blasted they've been doing this thing where they've had an opener for him so he would catch the bottom of the line to get him started he did 1.290 a array in his last six outings before that last one where he allowed six runs so uh dolander versus lezardo tomorrow he's got good stuff he's up to

a hundred so they'll have their hands full with that um and mickey moniac is coming in as he is one of the the hottest players in baseball right now so so we'll uh we'll get our chance to see mick here in Philly. And maybe he'll come back to Philly for the All-Star game. Wouldn't that be fun? Wouldn't that be fun? So Phil's Rockies tomorrow, the afternoon show will have you, leading into the game with some leading off.

So they will get you set. But don't you worry. Hunter Brody is next as the Flyers season hanging on by a thread. Brods will take you through the rest of the night here on Sports Radio 94 WIP.