High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: New Lineup, Who Dis?

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

The Philadelphia Phillies scored 8 runs with Brandon Marsh hitting leadoff tonight and Trea Turner on the bench. Jack Fritz reacts to the blowout win over the Marlins and wonders if this change could be a sign of things to come.

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Chris Widman, Jorge Mazzvedal, and Dustin Porreier bring you inside the octagon like no one else can. Deep Waters, new episodes every Monday, watch on YouTube or listen on Apple, Spotify, and everywhere else you get podcasts. Hey, sure do. Welcome on in. It is the final out.

Jack Fritz hanging out with you here on this Tuesday night as the boys keep on rolling. Welcome on in, the Final Out. sponsored by the Philadelphia Parking Authority offering valet park at the Philadelphia airport. Phil's win 8-2 tonight. Overall record is 40 and 33. If they win tomorrow, Louis Goco, that means they're going to be 41 and 33, just like the Super Bowl score in 2017.

Oh, man, we'll be back. Pardon me up. Come on, man. The run differential, more importantly, is at negative 10. We are just getting closer and closer to a positive. run differential and officially off of fraud watch, but 40 and 33, another series win, really bouncing back off of what was a super disappointing out in Milwaukee. Obviously, the Marlins are not.

The Browers are really good. Marlins, though, I don't think should be slept on. I mentioned this last night. They're 8 and 2 in their last 10 heading into the series. They got back to 500. Tyler Phillips, shockingly, not not. any disrespect to Bishop Eustace in South Jersey. I was just surprised to see his year, right?

It was in like 1.8s. I know as a reliever, he'd been really, really good, but starting-wise, you know, I did not think he was holding down the fort. Now it's only been a couple of stars. But regardless, Phil's did their thing tonight. The game wrap-up is sponsored by Roto Router. When plumbing problems hit, wrap them up quick,

and call Roto Router. Their team tackles clocks links so you can stay in the game. Roto Router, your MVP for plumbing. solutions. 215-5-592 and 94. If you're in the car on the way home, stuck in traffic, I would love to hear your thoughts on the game tonight. Or if you were like me and just watch this one on your couch, I would love to hear from you as well at 215-592-94-94. Line up those phone lines. All right. The biggest takeaways of the game are brought to you by Morgan and Morgan America's largest injury law firm. And two main takeaways tonight. One, first one, is that.

The Maddingley Blitz worked. This is not football, I understand it, but it was a blitz. And I like the idea of blitzing the right-handed starter and putting your top three lefties, even though they happen to be left-handed, at the top of the lineup and trying to jump a right-handed starter. And I know that it was the Trey Turner injury that gave Don Maddenly.

the opportunity to do this, but I credit Don Maddenly for actually doing it. The managers, and it goes back to the old school, new school doesn't matter what school you are, you do not put three straight lefties back to back to back to back at the top of a lineup, or really mostly any part of the lineup, because of matchup situations late in a ballgame.

But what I think makes this a different, scenario for the Phillies is A, they don't have any great right-handed hitters, although BOM is showing some signs of life 100%. You know, JT's had a good couple of games, but it's not like they have a natural rightee that can break up the lefties. Marsh, Harper, and Schwerber are your three best hitters this year. No if-if-ans or butts about it. And to Marsh's credit, he has handled himself well against left-handed pitching. So if they had to do that late in a ball game, I trust that Marshall will be able to hang in there enough to put together a competitive at bat,

which is not traditionally what he's done against left-in-in-pitching, but this year he has certainly done that. That's also factoring in if you don't do your job and get out to an early lead, stake your pitchers to an early lead, and blitz the starter like they did tonight. Now, Harper did not have a good game. He did not get a hit. He did walk, though, which was important early in the game.

But for a night, now I know Stott had a good night, Bohm had a good night, but Marsh at Homer, Schwerpard had a Homer, and having those guys at the top of the lineup, and just trying to jump on a righty and not being worried about matchups late in the game, for a night, it certainly worked. And I was glad to see Madeline try it. It's not something that it goes against the grain. and it's not something that you usually see.

But you have three guys there that can handle left-handed pitching. It should not be something that you're super, super worried about. Marsh has been good against them. Schwerber, obviously, we know, still puts up power, gets left-handed pitching, and Harper certainly can hold his own. So I was glad to see the Maddenly Blitz work. Obviously, it was good to see other members of the offense contribute as well. The stock triple was good.

Boom, with an absolute moonshot. But I really think that they set the tone early. with sending all the lefties up and putting Tyler Phillips a bit of a pickle early. And then the other takeaway from tonight is Lazzarda was great. Now, he had a little command issues early, a lot of balls, and he fought his way through the first inning and then settled into a nice little rhythm.

Fifth inning got a little hairy, but it was 8-0, and he pitched his way out of it. And in the, I thought it was, was impressive after he allowed the home run to Ruiz, just immediately did not let it unravel. We've seen him unravel at times so far this year. To his credit, he did not unravel. He stuck in there, did his job, got the next three outs, and didn't make us sweat at all. So seven innings, nine Ks.

He did walk to 106 pitches. And I do find it interesting that he's down to a 4.202 ERA. And I know on the surface, when you pay him $135 million, you're like, I want a 4.20 is not that great. And the way Lazzardo kind of has been talked about this year is, eh, he's been inconsistent, haven't been too impressed with him, hasn't had his best year. He ended last year with a 3.96, and he finished 7th in Sa Young,

and we all talk about how you could tell he was really, really good last year. Meanwhile, he's almost right back to where he was, and I feel like Lazzardo's year has been talked about different than his year last year. I do understand it last year. He had the two starts that really jacked the ZRA up and like the Red Sox start in the middle of the summer. It didn't help. But it is good to see Lazzardo getting back closer and closer to where it was last year. He's a really, really good pitcher.

He is more volatile than a Chris Sanchez. But he's not every bit as good as those two guys. but he has a capability to be right there. He's clearly a step below them. But as a three, he is really, really good. So Lazzardo was great. It was good to see him have that kind of start at home. Heading into that game tonight, I believe, his ERA at home was over seven.

And it was in the ones on the road. So him trying to fix the issues at home is big. This is not a thing last year. I did not remember him having, crazy splits home and away last season. But, you know, heading into tonight, hitters hitting 287 with a 500 sluggy percentage in 839 OPS. His ERA was 7.34 on the road, 1.55.

So a totally different pitcher this year, home and away. And, yeah, I mean, last year, he had a 4.16 ERA and a 3.67 ERA on the road. So it's not like that's not enough to, you know, keep you up at night. This year, though, totally, totally different. 2.05, 5992, 94, 94. Dave's in Maryland. What's happening, Dave? Yeah, just tonight makes you, I mean, with Lizardo, I mean, I thought he had a great game.

And it just, you know, makes you feel how lucky you are with Sanchez and Wheeler. Because, like, tonight you felt like, you know, with Lazzardo, he's always, you know, a couple pitches away from giving up runs. But you never feel that way with Sanchez. and Wheeler, and it's nice to have him in the three spot where, you know, he just, you know, came in and really did a, really did a nice job. And the biggest thing I think he did is they've had two nights where they've had kind of easy victories where the back end of the bullpen guys have come in and done the job where Duran and Kirkering and, you know, assuming he'll get into that Keller role, they just can kind of sit back and watch and, you know, you don't need to use them every night that you. have a have a game like that. And, you know, the other thing I noticed is that Schwerber, you know,

I feel like he got more pitches to hit tonight with Harper behind him and not having him in the, not having the tray sandwich of them kind of nibbling around Schwerber, getting, getting tray out, and Harper with nobody on, and they can kind of do what they want with him. So I thought the lineup change was also a good mix tonight. And hopefully, you know, then keep rolling tomorrow. Yeah. appreciate the phone call, Dave.

And I thought what Dave said there about, you know, Duran was really, really important. Duran has been used a lot this year. I think Francki said earlier that last night it was the first time they've won a game by four or more or five or more runs since I want to say mid-May. Or maybe, like, the wins that they have gotten have just been by the skin of their teeth seemingly for the last.

month. So Duran getting a little, I know he wants to work, and I appreciate that about Duran, and he's been phenomenal. But we also, we don't need to run him into the ground in June. So giving him a little bit of a breather and just letting him kind of calm down for a couple of nights has certainly been refreshing. 2.15-592-94-94 to get in on either side. We'll get to the player of the game and some other things that stuck out tonight. All that's coming up next year on the final out on Sports Radio 94 WIPA. Really good to see both Marsh and Boehm starting to develop into their power a little bit. Marsh is a strong, like big physical guy and up to nine home runs on the year.

Well, I'm be barreling down on 20, obviously, pushing for him to be in the all-star game. But I'm also pushing for him to remain in the lead-off spot, even if Trey's back in the line of tomorrow. You want to do the thing with, like, I'm okay with having two different lineups. I know the set lineup thing has been something that people appreciate. And I get it if it makes sense. But Trey batting two no longer makes sense. I like Schwabber.

I like Schwabber hitting leadoff if there's a guy with, like, a guy that's swinging a hotter bat hitting behind him. I do think that with Turner hitting behind him, he is not getting the same pitches to hit. He is hitting for a high average, which is nice, but the slug has really, really gone down. Now all of a sudden, with Harvard behind him, he did smoke that baseball tonight.

But it's okay to have two different lineups. And, you know, against Ritees, I'm okay with running with this for a little bit. It's not like the offense has been ripping the cover off the ball this year. So against Ritees, you go Marsh, Schwabber, Harper, Boehm Turner, and then against lefties, if you want to put either Boehm there or Turner there, knock yourself out. But against righties, I like the Blitz strategy. I like the blitz strategy. I'm intrigued by it. It's a little bit different than we're used to seeing in

baseball. And I want to see it kind of what it could possibly turn into. Maybe this could be some some formula that works for this offense. I don't think Schwerbert matters if he bats two or one. I think in his mind, the guy I know that I just talked about the power numbers, but in his mind I don't think he's going to be so thrown off if one day he has to lead off and one day he has to hit second, I think he's going to be fine.

But I'm really, really intrigued and if that lineup can settle things in. I think Marsh generally has a good eye. He hasn't walked a ton this year, but I think he has a pretty good feel for the first. strike zone. He's not your traditional lead-off hitter. He's actually, he's, he's kind of Springer-ish from the left side. Now, Springer had more pop, but I think they're similar in their, their aggressiveness, I guess. But I want to see if the Maddenly Blitz can work for a little bit. And tonight was

certainly a good start. So, very interested to see if Turner in the lineup tomorrow. It seems like he's going to be back if Mattaly will stick with it. I hope he does because Turner's not earned the right to be up there. And it's funny, Trey was hitting at this point in 2023 before the ovations. I mean, I'll talk about how bad he was. And he was hitting 252 with a 700 OPS. I would die for those numbers right now. And he was still being moved down.

So what is 223 with a 2.3? 69 OBP. Like, that's where it's okay to move him down. The player of the game is brought to you by South Jersey Gas. Making the smart play Save Energy and money with South Jersey Gas at SJG SaveEnergy.com was a good

combined offensive performance, which means I want to go with Lazardo, who did give them seven strong innings tonight. The home run was a bummer. I appreciated how he bounced back after that, struck out nine. And it was a good, good, good home start and one that he certainly needed to get

under his belt. Check it with Chris in Delaware. What's happening, Chris? Hey. What's up, man? Get your office speaker there. Just, just the way

that Marsh has been playing this year, the average that he's holding, the energy that he gives, the way that he's on the base path, it just doesn't make sense. to me to not have him in a spot where he's leading off. Every team, if you look in baseball, they either have their fastest, which Trey is pretty

quick, but most likely the guy with the highest average hitting at the top. It may not be the most power guy, which Marsh definitely doesn't hit for power. But they usually have that guy that you can guarantee he's going to get on base so the number two, three, four can either hit him in or they can join him on base as well. And so we got a guy like Trey Turner who was the batting king last year, give him that credit. He had a great year last year. But every year is a new year for a baseball player, and Trey isn't playing low. That's okay.

I mean, that's not okay. He needs to play better. But for us to look at him and go, okay, we're going to put you a lead off. You just need to do it and you need to do it. No. Like we need to have the willingness to adjust, put Marsh into a position where he can also succeed, which, I mean, tonight he did great. and so far this season he has played very well

and then put Turner in a spot where he can get his groove back a little where the pitcher gets through a bit more guys and then they play Trey Trey Trey Ternor so that the pitcher is already thrown so many pitches and it's kind of a more advantage for Turner to pick up some hits and if it's going to be something where Trey's ego is insulted or whatever whatever whatever that doesn't matter We just need to win.

We need to get consistent, and we need to be the team that we know we can be. And that is with Brandon Marsh at leadoff and Trey Turner somewhere else in the lineup. I agree, at least for the time being. And like you said, if it hurts Trey's ego, tough. I don't know what to tell you. You're here for seven more years. So Don Mataly is an interim manager at this point. if he's, and I don't think he would.

I think he'd understand it, frankly. He's been pretty open and honest about his struggles. But at the same time, you know, I'm okay with giving him a little bit of a kick in the butt if that is necessary. I think he is hard on himself. I, in listening to him, I think he's very aware of what his season is like. And hey, maybe dropping him down to five, four against lefties would, would, would, maybe feel like a little bit of pressures off his shoulders he could just go out and play rather than hitting either first or second.

And maybe once he starts getting some base hits, gets his feet back underneath him, you can either keep him there or put him back up top and off we go. I watched Trey this year and he's frustrating 100%. And we talk about the batting king. He hit 304 last year. I mean, we don't need to talk about it wasn't like he hit 350. but it's not like we're seeing precipitous decline in bat speed and things like that. He's been a shrieky player as a Philly.

His lows have been really, really low. His highs have been really good. I mean, after the Ovation, he was like the best player in baseball. At the beginning of 24, he was ridiculous, and then he heard his hamstring. And last year, he was pretty consistent all throughout. So I do think there is a Trey hot streak. coming. I just don't think it's right now. And I wouldn't even put it back in there tomorrow. I would give him another day off. You already won the series. You'd give him one more day and

get him back out there for the Mets series. Or if you wouldn't even give them the next two games off, I'd be okay with it and bring him back on Saturday and hopefully off we go. But at least tomorrow night, if he is back in there, I would very much appreciate if they do Marsh Schwerber Harper again. is in Doyle's down. What's happening, Joel? Jackie Baseball. This team was 9 and 19. I know. Just seeing this turnaround, man. How cool. 40 and 33, all of a sudden.

40 and 33. Pretty good. Keep on. Keep it rolling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. The Nats are 39 and 35 all of a sudden. They're nipping on the Phil's heels a little bit. But, yeah, it's remarkable where we're at. Yeah.

Marlin's coming to the series winning 10 at 12 we just smoke in the last two games let's see what happens tomorrow but man I'm really I've been with you on Marsh I've been one to chat with you about this like him leading off just makes too much sense the guy gets

knocks he's chasing down Ty Cobb for the greatest bad bit like why is this not talked about more I know you talk about it but this is this is historic stuff and the guy gets on base like Schwerber hits tanks when Harper's behind him.

It just makes mathematical sense to have a guy on base when Shoreber's up and can knock in two runs. But I know we have an incredible record with Shorebert leading off over the years. And it's just like 2026, we want our best hitters up as often as possible. But I want Marsh up late in the game.

And it just makes too much sense to me. But I'm fired up, man. Let's go Phil. I appreciate the phone call, Joel. I'm a fired up too. I mean, I'm still, this offensive stuff is good a little scar for the weekend,

especially Sunday, Friday's whatever, but Sunday, and Kyle Harrison's good, I just, I feel like they laid down that game and that was disappointing. But the only case against Marsh leading off is just the three straight lefties thing. And like I said, Marsh is hitting either 300 or right before,

right under 300 against lefties this year, and Schwerburn and Harper are fine. So for a little bit, give it some runway, let them try to jump on the righty starter when you have it. Against lefties, if you don't want to bet him lead off, I'm fine. That's okay. But against a righty, try to jump him. Now, some other things that kind of stuck out tonight,

one was Schwabber hitting two and Hartford hitting behind him. Did smoke a home run. And speaking of Harper, I mean, he is 0 for his last 16, I believe. If it's not 16, it's 15. The thing about him right now is usually you can see when a guy is, is going through struggles. I don't watch Bryce and think he's struggling. I think he's just not getting hits.

And I mean, he hit a ball to the wall last night. Hit a couple balls hard tonight. But, or maybe like one ball hard tonight. He hit, like, I feel like I don't know. Milwaukee he smoked a couple balls at guys. Misaroski was on Friday. So like no one was hitting that night. It's one of those times where I know.

he's down at 250 right now. It's funny. Schwerber's sitting 249. Harper's hitting 250. And the way sometimes the Schwerber has talked about, it's as if he's hitting 190 and just hitting home runs. But like there's too much good under the hood with Harper and the expected stats for me to be too, too worried about, oh, no, here comes a Harper big old downturn. I kind of just think he's not getting hits right now. This is the normal ebbs and flows of a baseball season. On the other side, we'll get to the wow moment of the game. That includes a situation that we're monitoring and a look ahead to tomorrow. All that's come up next here on the final out on Sports Radio 94 WIPA.

What has gotten into Alec Bone? That is our wow moment of the game brought to you by the New Jersey Division of Travel and Tourism from Waterfalls to Fairways Mountain Resorts to Lowe's. lighthouse tours. Find your wow at VisitNJ.com. Was that 447 feet? Absolute moonshot.

And he's, he, the biggest lock of the century was Alec Bohm tapping into his power in his walk year. Contract your bone. You're starting to see him actively trying to lift the baseball on

inside pitches that he feels like he can pull like we've been begging him to do for the last five years, and I'm just, you got to get out in front of it, and we're going to get out in front of it. There's going to be talks of extending Alec Bohm's contract because he's going to hit 20 plus home runs this year. His average at the end of the year will be right around 260, 270, and we'll say, ah, who cares about the first month of the year, month and a half of the year, when you're hitting 140 or whatever. I just, I can feel it in my bones.

We're going to have Boehm extension talks, and he's inevitable. He's going to be here forever. But at the same time, it's like if he's going to tap into his power, I don't want that to be used elsewhere, so bleep it, bring him back. And Aiden can learn how to play the outfield. So it's just, you know, happy for Bome. He is digging himself out of what was a horrendous start the year. A smidge annoying that he is starting to tap into his power,

would have liked it a little bit earlier. But hey, who doesn't love a 30-year-old power breakout season? Again, it's only nine home runs. But I do think that there has been a more conscious effort by Boehm to lift the baseball. And he did have a classic boom hit the first inning where he just blooped it over the first basement's head. So that is still in there as well. It is the final out, by the way, which is brought to you by the Philadelphia Park. Authority Offering Valley Park at Philadelphia Airport, Jack Fritz,

hanging out with you on this Tuesday night, last segment of the final out before handing things off to Jody Mack or T.K. Tom Kelly. Tom Kelly. Teak's coming up next. So let's go back to the phones. Talk to Rick and Easton. What's happening, Rick?

Hey, Jack. I wonder what would happen if we had Bregman or Bichette playing third base right now for this team. Anyway, we'll talk about that later. You know, you're Jackie Baseball. You know the game. This is a team game. While this team has enough AAA teams they have to play, and why this team keeps winning games that a lot of teams can't even beat Miami,

but we are, why do we, and somebody alluded to it earlier, Why do we take all the pressure off Trey Turner? You can't keep a $30 million guy on the bench. We know that. So why would we put him in a critical place first through fourth? I wouldn't even hit him fifth. Let him come back in the lineup. Let him hit six or sevens.

Somebody already talked about it. Let him work his way in. This is a marathon. You know baseball better than most people, Jack. This is a marathon. This is not a sprint. Here's the problem. Even though we have a lot of AAA teams to play,

you know what the Phillies record is against the Dodgers, against the Cubs, against Milwaukee, and against Atlanta are. The Phillies right now are three and 12 against those teams. And those are the four teams we're going to have to beat in the playoffs. That is what really matters. matters. We have to get Turner back. And you know baseball, Jack. We have to get Turner back through first through fourth. You're not going to put him in a cleanup spot right now because

he can't hit right now. Let him work his way in. What say you, Jack? Well, and I appreciate the phone call, Rick. I agree. Against right-handed pitching, I would not bat him. I would bat him fifth. So tomorrow against Sandy Alconra, I would bet him fifth. I think the Cubs thing, the Cubs were scorching hot when the Phillies play them. If you want to talk about, by the way, the Cubs are currently not in a playoff spot. If you want to talk about Brewers, Dodgers, Braves, totally fair. I believe they're three and nine against those teams. Totally, totally fair.

And I do still believe that when they face a pitcher that has a pulse, they don't exactly show up in that game besides facing Paul schemes. So, yeah, they're not, what? the World Series with this version of Trey Turner. We know that. Even with Trey Turner, they're a bat short. And the Diadolese injury, I think, made that more clear. Talk to us last night, I hope that, you know,

Gabriel Roncones can kind of take that job and run with it. I would just be very, very surprised if that happened. But, yeah, I would not bat Trey higher than five tomorrow. Like, I think maybe putting down to seven is a little much, but at least five and see if that gives him any bit of a spark. Tomorrow, though, we will have Sandy Alcantra on the mound for the Marlins. Been a little up and down this year. It was great start the year, petered off there in the middle.

And then the last couple of outings been very solid. So he is going tomorrow for the Marlins and for the Phil's. Andrew Painter. Andrew Painter, last time against the Brewers, I actually thought some meaningful adjustments. And of course, the Jake Bauer's home run happened. And it was all washed away. But Andrew Painter on the mound tomorrow,

as we are still searching for signs of life, maybe against the Marlins and not the Brewers or, you know, he'll have a little bit, he'll fare a little bit better. So, you know, it's a little different than the last couple of outings for Andrew Painter. So Painter versus Alconra, a 105 start, and that's a little afternoon day tilt for the fills. So that's going to do it for me. TK is coming on next week. Go produce the program tonight.

Enjoy the rest of your night here on Sports Radio 94 WIP.