High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: Phillies' Pitching Struggles In 9-3 Loss

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Jack Fritz reacts to the Phillies' tough loss at the hands of the Braves on Tuesday night. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball Isn't Boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is.

Another fact, so jump aboard the B.I.B. Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome on in. It is the final out, sponsored by Regency Furniture. Your affordable never looked so good. Yeah, a little different kind of reaction from last night to tonight i mean they

go down there and and just get dominated i mean i know bryce of the home run was which was nice and uh he felt like maybe we have something here but overall i mean spencer strider or spencer strider um you know they uh they didn't really show up to play. And, frankly, that's my biggest takeaway of the game, which is brought to you by Morgan & Morgan. Of course, you can always react to everything. 215-592-9494. Phil's lose down in Atlanta. But my biggest takeaway of the game is, I mean,

that's about as scheduled of a scheduled loss as you'll see. You know, how they handled Chris Sanchez, Rob Tomstead after the game, you know, last week he threw the most innings in a start he's ever had. He's already well over his innings that he's pitched in the last couple years. Frankly, if you're one of those people that believe that Chris Sanchez should start a playoff game, I think the way they managed him tonight is actually a good sign for that because they're clearly trying to limit and manage him as best as possible

so that he could start in the NLDS or he could start in some of those games as we get later into the postseason. So the fact that they let him go out there tonight, only threw him four innings, didn't really push him coming off his longest start of his career, I think it shows that they are more believing what they're seeing than not. So they clearly managed his innings, and they did not want to go overboard. They didn't want to push him. Any little sign of trouble.

Now he had some contact against him, but it wasn't like he was getting destroyed out there. But either way, they clearly went in tonight. They went in, and I believe their pitching plan, now Michael Lorenzen kind of threw a wrench in that, but if we win, great. Then our bullpen did its job but once they went down by a good amount they weren't going to really put in any of their studs you know i mean

like i know sir anthony pitched tonight but that felt more like a get right spot for him which i'm i'm glad that we're now instead of putting sir anthony into tie games or putting him in the sixth inning or whatever. They're trying him in games where they're losing, and to his credit, he looked pretty good. So, yeah, just about as scheduled of a scheduled loss as you could see down in Atlanta tonight. Not only was it the way they managed Sanchez's innings, not only was it the way they managed Sanchez's innings, not only was it the way

that their bullpen pitched, but it also had to do with our player of the game, which is brought to you by South Jersey Gas, committed to providing safe, reliable, affordable natural gas. Make the switch at southjerseygas.com slash lovemyhome.

And that is Spencer Strider, who remains undefeated against the Phillies in the regular season. We all know the one loss. But in the regular season, the guy just dominates the Phillies. And I believe this lowers his career ERA to 1.9 against this baseball team. So he is just sometimes pitchers have a team's number. And that's what Spencer Strider is to this Phillies team. I mean, he's just nasty.

And, I mean, he's got the most strikeouts to begin a career in the history of baseball. Like topping Dwight Gooden. So it's not like some scrub that dominates the Phillies like we've seen in years past. I mean, Spencer Strider is legit. Now, other teams have roughed him up. It seems like a lot of the bad teams rough him up. But Spencer Strider is just on his A game when he faces the Phillies. And frankly, Spencer Strider is the perfect break. He's a total dork, and he's nasty. So, I mean, the only thing that would make him, you know,

more annoying is if he's a Met. Because he's got the same kind of qualities. He's really, well, the Mets don't always have really good players. Like, the Mets kind of just have dorks that are pretty good, like Pete Alonso, Nimmo, Jeff McNeil. Dorks, but they're pretty good. The Braves just have studs that are also dorks. So actually, I think Spencer Strider makes more sense as a Met than a Brave.

But regardless, the point still stands. He's a dork, but he's also a really good dork. And, again, I do wonder how last season's playoff – and, again, whenever they lose, I start thinking dark thoughts about the baseball team. But I was thinking, watching the game tonight, watching Spencer Schreider just mow down the Phillies, I wonder how different this all could have turned out last year

had he been fully healthy. And I started thinking about maybe we don't have the Game 3 moment and stuff like that. But we did. We did. It happened. Whatever. And he does have a loss, even though we can keep bringing up that

he's never lost to the Phillies in the regular season. But, yeah, Spencer Strider, just nasty. Just nasty. But, overall, a win tomorrow makes it a 4-2 road trip. I think we would have been really, really happy with that if I told you that before the road trip started. Worst case scenario is they end at 3-3 with a brave series mixed in there. I think a lot of people would have taken that that but my big takeaway from tonight is that was just about the most scheduled loss uh of the season and uh not pressing the panic button not freaking out uh annoying yes don't like sitting through it don't like having to react to it but it sure beats

tying the game up and then losing in heartbreaking fashion they got this one out of the way pretty early tonight the biggest takeaway of the game is brought to you by Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury firm. Jack Fritz, hanging out with you here on the Final Out. 215-592- 9494 is how you get in. My other big takeaway

from tonight, and it's probably the more important takeaway, is that this Michael Lorenzen to the bullpen thing, it's not going to work. I mean, I understand the thought process. I understand trying to salvage an asset that he gave up your number nine prospect for. I appreciate the no-hitter.

Frankly, it's going to be a hilarious trivia answer in the next 10 years. But he's not very good. Like, Michael Lorenzen doesn't have it. Sure, is he over his innings total of his entire career? Yeah. Could that play a factor in it? Of course. People will bring it up.

People will say it, and I'm sure they believe it, but it will never, ever, ever, ever, ever compute with me that you throw 124 pitches, which again, it's 124 pitches. It's not 150 or whatever. And that's a season derailer. He had nine days off after that. Nine.

Nine. Nine days off. He didn't throw. I'm sure he threw, but he didn't pitch in a real game. Nine days off. Either you have it or you don't. I can't give that and use that as an excuse for Michael Lorenzen just totally, totally falling off a cliff. But he comes in tonight. Their idea is to piggyback him. They give Sanchez four inningsnings they want to manage his innings

and Michael Lorenzen can't come in and do a job like for a guy who's been around as long as he has he knows his his job in that spot he could he could barely record an out I mean how are you a big leaguer walking that many people how are you a big leaguer walking that many people? How are you a big leaguer throwing, I swear, three 3-2 sliders? Now, the one that JT just completely gave up on. But still, it's like, be a professional pitcher. It's like base level for Major League Baseball, you would think. And I know there's some talk tonight about how, well, he's got to get used to the role,

and he's transitioning back to the bullpen. I mean, this is a guy who's spent a majority of his career coming out of the bullpen. He's never been that good. I mean, is this really that surprising result? When Michael Lorenzen was coming out of the bullpen the last couple years, he was 97-98. I mean, I'm watching a guy throw a 93. And you know the sick part about watching tonight was,

and watching the Renzen just completely waste away the middle of the game, is I legitimately was like, who's better, him or Cinderguard? You know what I mean? Like, that's exactly who I felt like I was watching. It was like watching Cinderguard? You know what I mean? Like, that's exactly who I felt like I was watching. It was like watching Cinderguard all over again. I mean, back-to-back years of going and getting guys to throw, former pedigree guys, I mean, Loren's not in the same stratosphere as Noah Cinderguard, but guys that used to throw hard,

that now just don't have it. I mean, it's as simple as that. He doesn't have it. And at this point, like, I'm not even sure I'd waste a playoff spot on him. This is not a joke. I'm not laughing when I say this. I trust Dylan Covey in an inning.

If I needed an inning, if I needed something, God forbid I have a lead, and for some reason, I need three outs to hold a lead in a playoff game. I'm 100% going. I would go to Dylan Covert or Tywin Walker, by the way. I don't think Tywin Walker or Michael Lorenzen have any chance in a postseason game. Any chance. Can't locate, can't command, don't have swing and miss

stuff. I mean, Tywin Walker's at his best after he already allows for. I mean, it's as simple as that. Michael Lorenzen doesn't even give you the chance. He doesn't even get an ounce. You can't pitch. Can't pitch. Simple as that. And thank you for the no-hitter. Thank you for the eight innings against the Marlins that saved the bullpen

in the first start. Doesn't have it. It's over. It's over. They'll try it again. They'll pitch him his next time out. They'll try it again. They'll pitch him his next time out. They'll try the piggyback thing. Unless he jumps up to 98 again,

unless he finds a strikeout pitch, unless he can limit damage, unless he can find the strike zone, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. So I just... I understand why they did it, but it's not going to work. It's not going to work. So I just, I understand why they did it, but I just, it's not going to work. And it's a shame because, you know, that's a big trade.

I mean, that's someone that you hoped at the deadline that he could make a big difference in your rotation. He was a big difference for two starts, and he's just totally fallen off a cliff since. And, you know, Dave Dombrowski's big two starting pitching moves, Lorenzen and Tyrone Walker, just haven't really worked out. I mean, neither one you really want pitching in a playoff game, and that's not what you want, especially for $72 million and giving up a top-ten prospect. So two swings and misses simple as that 215 592 94 94 is how you get in jack fritz hanging out here on the final out on the other side someone the phils have to get going and the latest around the wild card race we'll get to that and more of your phone calls coming up next here on the Final Out.

Welcome in. It is the Final Out sponsored by Regency Furniture. Affordable never looks so good. 215-592-9494 is how you get in. We're reacting to a disappointing loss down in Atlanta. Felt very, very, very scheduled lossy

as Doc Rivers would say. They managed Sanchez's innings. They tried piggybacking Lorenzen. They didn't use any real bullpen options besides a get-right spot for Sir Anthony, and it was Spencer Strider the night after the Phil score hit five home runs. I mean, if that doesn't sound like a scheduled loss, I'm not sure what is. So, overall, the Marlins came back in the ninth to beat the Mets and buzzed Mr. Magic Number himself. That means that the Magic Number cannot change tonight, right? That's correct. It will stay at eight until at least tomorrow around three o'clock.

Gosh, you're just on top of this. I mean, you might want to change your middle name to Magic Number. Buzz Magic Number Wilson. Exactly right. So, Cubs, they're up 5-1 in the sixth. So, it looks like they're going to get off the schneid. Our good old pal, Bailey Falter, went an inning. So, you know, looks like that's going to go well for the Cubs.

Milwaukee extends their lead over the Cardinals, and they're up 7-3 in the top of the ninth. Arizona and San Francisco, which, like, I mean, in a perfect world, both lose. But Arizona up 5-2. Alex Cobb getting hit around a little bit. Two innings, five runs. So, you know, that's a little bit surprising. But other than that, the Twins beat the Reds.

And, yeah, overall, I mean, not like a disaster night. Obviously, you root for the Cubs to lose. But, you know, not an overall terrible, terrible night for the Phillies. And, again, the magic number does not move. So, I mean, it seems like their best chance to clinch. I was dreaming because Saturday we have High Hopes Night down at the ballpark. So if you are heading down Saturday and want to hang out with James and I, James Seltzer and I for the game,

we'll be outside the Miller Lite Liberty Landing deck. So having Miller Lites and watching the game and stuff like that. I was selfishly hoping that we would see a nice little clinch, but it seems like they're going to have to save that for, you know, coming up against the Pirates. But either way, I mean, Mets are playing a little bit of frisky baseball. You know, they're not exactly going down the fight. I do think that could change by the last week of the season

when the finish line is right in front of them. So, you know, either way, the Phillies just have to kind of take care of business and do their job. Now, one player that they got to get going because, you know, after Harper in the lineup, Cassianos was a good cleanup hitter and protection for Bryce for most of the year, and then he's just been so up and down that you don't really know what you're getting. I would say Boehm has done a good job there. I like that he's not—like, when Castellanos gets in those modes where it's just swing first pitch

and chasing all over the zone, it's a frustrating guy to have hit behind Bryce because sometimes his runner's on base or he's on base with his high OBP or Schwarber's high OBP and the double play or the strikeout just kills you. So Alec Boehm grounds into a lot of double plays too. That's not to say that he doesn't, but I think he's going to put the bat in the ball and he has a high RBI total for a reason. I know Cassianos does as well. But I just trust Alec Baum more in those situations. So I'm fine with him.

He's been pretty good since August 1st. Not overwhelming, not bad, but pretty good. The player, and this is not a knock, because I think you can make the case he's been Philly's best player for a majority of this year. But the fact of the matter is, it's going to be September 20th tomorrow. And Bryson Stott, a guy who is known to be a bat-to-ball guy, he's a high-average guy, not going to be a huge home-run guy. And that's fine. Your lineup doesn't need all those guys. But he's got 200 since September 1st.

And my worry here is this is kind of what we saw last year, where he just gets a little bit tired towards the end of the year. I mean, the Phillies throughout the season have been trying to manage his workload a little bit. And I know they got shouted at a lot, mostly by me, because I thought they were sitting him a lot against lefties, where it's like, hey, man, he's earned the right to hit against lefties. So, you know, we don't have to keep doing this thing.

But, I mean, last year he got worn down in the World Series. I mean, he didn't get a hit. He was pretty good before that. That wasn't a huge concern. But, you know, he didn't get a hit. He was pretty good before that. That wasn't a huge concern. But, you know, it wasn't exactly the same. And my fear is that we're starting to see the same thing from Bryson Stott. And I hope this is not something that we have to worry about every single year because, as we know, this is the time when the games mean more.

time when the games mean more. So, like, him being cold right now just kind of throws off what has been a really good lineup since August 1st. Because you go top to bottom. Schwarber's in a good stretch. Turner's in a good stretch. Harper's in a good stretch. Boehm, mostly lukewarm. Stock, cold. Real Muto cold castellanos currently warm but i just i don't know what i'm getting on most days especially with the the run he's on right now and like johan rojas or christian pache whatever like they're just they're there for their defense more than their bat but if you can get stock reignited here a little bit and and and um you know have him going back in the in to the direction that he's been a majority of the season like that just lengthens that lineup and makes it that much more potent but you just he looks tired like that's my my thing with stoddard right now so he

just looks tired bat looks a little bit slower through the zone. A lot of weak pop-ups. Not driving the baseball. So I don't know what the answer is. I don't think I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the lineup tomorrow. I know it's a righty on the mound, but if you can give him a day before a big four-game home series against the Mets, I might take that. But they've got to find some way to get him going again because he's a really important part of this lineup. He's been arguably their team MVP this year,

still playing great defense. You haven't seen it slip out there. I mean, he made a great play in the ninth or in the eighth tonight. But just at the plate, a lot of weak contact, a lot of pop-ups, not driving the ball. I mean, outside that home run he hit last week, it hasn't felt like... It's been a while since he's

had a double or driven a ball into the gap. It's something they've got to get right because he is too important to this team, too vital to this team, and someone that they've got to get going as we head into the postseason. 215-592- 9494 is how you get in.

On the other side, we'll look ahead to tomorrow before handing things off to... Who's coming up after me, Buzz? Jody McAttack. Jody Mack, the Mac Man. So we'll look ahead to tomorrow. Running your phone calls before handing things off to Jody Mack. Coming up next here on the Final Out.

Hey, fantasy football owners. The road to winning your fantasy football championship starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from Reception Perception. Join me and James Coe as we take a deep dive into the position that's going to make or break your fantasy roster. Wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share, and all the metrics that matter, giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers.

As you prep for your draft, let us give you the coverage you need. Follow and listen to Reception Perception on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Swung on, ripped down the left field line. It's a base hit. And it goes to the corner. Albies has scored. Riley will score.

Olsen to third. And Ozuna, a two-run double. And the Braves have broken it wide open at 6-0 Atlanta. Welcome on back. It is Final Out sponsored by Regency Furniture. Affordable never looks so good.

That's the Mike's Amazing Play of the Game presented by Mike's Amazing. The official mayo, mustard, and vegetable oil of the Phillies. Yes, Marcel Ozuna. I guess he's just back to being a pretty good player. I don't know. I thought he was done a couple years ago. Whatever.

I guess he's okay. Now it seems to just love, love having back-breaking hits against the Phillies. And, you know, it was obviously not the most amazing play ever in the history of the sport. But that took it from 4-0 to 6-0. And it would have made a comeback against the Braves really, really hard. Now, they tried. I mean, Bryce had the three-run home run and had Lorenzen kind of done a job there. Who knows how that game goes. And you think about the Lorenzen inning.

So I looked up, and I just, it was one of those innings where the Braves scored so fast, and there was so much action on the base pass that I couldn't believe there wasn't an out yet. You know, like, it was so fast. They scored so many runs. And I was like, well, they have to have an out. And they didn't. There wasn't, like, he was, just doesn't, he's just, I don't know what to say. He just doesn't have it.

He doesn't have it. And they're probably going to try it again. But, I mean, at this point, you know, I talked a good amount about Orion Kerkering. And, like, I guarantee you that he can come up right now and has a better chance of getting outs against big league hitters than Michael Lorenzen. Like, it's just he doesn't have an out pitch. I mean, he doesn't have an out pitch and he throws 93.

Why do I think that's going to work out of the bullpen? I mean, at least Tom Walker has the splitter. It's effective. It's usually more effective after he allows for. But Mike Lorenzen, he's always been an okay pitcher. He's never been a difference maker. I know that the talking point was, well, they can put him in the bullpen if the starting path doesn't work.

But he's never been good at it. This has been the first time in his career he's been a good starter for the majority of it. And now the wheels have fallen off because he's thrown a ton of innings. And maybe the 124 pitches thing did it, but I'd be shocked. He had nine days off after it. So I just, he might not make the playoff roster at this point. So we'll see how Ryan does up in AAA, and if he can just get hot up here,

or hot down there, come up, and he could be a bit of a factor here. But they've got to make that decision quick because there's, what, like 11 games left? So I don't know. They'd have to have some faith in what they saw down in AAA and really in AA as well. But the clips you see of that slider, the clips you see of some of those pitches, he looks like he could get big leaguers out right now. Now, speaking of getting out big leaguers, Aaron Nola on the mound tomorrow. And Aaron Nola has a chance to rewrite his season starting right now.

It's as simple as that. You want to have everyone forgive you for what has been a colossally disappointing season? Turn it around right now and go out, be the pitcher you know you can be, and go on a run here before you head into free agency. And if you want to leave, leave and go get money elsewhere. But he's just running out of stars for that kind of run to happen. Am I 100% confident it's going to happen?

No, not at all. But he has a chance. I mean, the thing about Nola and the thing that has made this year that much more frustrating is, like, you know, if I was to buy into the dead arm theory or buy into the theory that he's cooked, he wouldn't be hitting 95, 96. You know what I mean?

Like, like the stuff is still there. He still has some, some, some juice in there. He just hasn't been able to put it together. And even in the years where you didn't totally trust Nola in big spots, it was still like, yeah, but he rattled off five straight starts where he was just unbelievable. I mean, we haven't even gotten that stretch this year. We've gotten two start stretches, uh, but he rattled off five straight starts where he was just unbelievable. I mean, we haven't even gotten that stretch this year. We've gotten two start stretches instead of those five start stretches. But what Aaron Nola has a chance to do, and it feels like every time I do this, and whether it's on the podcast or whether it's here, it sounds like I'm begging.

And that's because I am. Like, I'm willing to admit it. I'm begging him because it comes down to him more than almost any other player on this team. Like, we can talk about Sir Anthony. We can talk about some members of this bullpen. You can bring up Kimbrel and Alvarado and Soto and Strom and Sir Anthony and those guys. And they need to be good.

No doubt about it. And sure, Ranger needs to be good if he's going to be your game three starter or game two starter. And I know this isn't breaking any news, but they might go as far as Aaron Nola takes them. Like Zach Wheeler, I have confidence in any game he starts, game one, whatever. Nola's the wild card. The offense I mostly trust is going to hit, but Nola was the wild card the offense i mostly trust is gonna hit but no

is the wild card and if he can just figure it out for a month like is it's literally a month and if things go well a month and a half where he can just change the entire narrative on his season. And what better way to change the narrative on your season than going down to Atlanta, a chance to win a series against the Braves, create a little shadow of a doubt in their mind. That's what's at stake tomorrow. It's no more, I think he's going to turn around. It's now begging.

It's like I'm at the point of begging because it's right there. It can be right there. And it's really one of the reasons we talked about on the pregame show why it doesn't feel like there's this huge groundswell for another Phillies run. And I think it's because a lot of people don't trust Nola and the back end of the bullpen options because the back end options have blown some big games this last month and a half.

And you just haven't seen the consistency that we've been used to seeing from Aaron Nola. But that can change starting tomorrow so uh I'm more in the I've gone from hoping to begging that's that's that's where we're at with the 2023 version of Aaron Nola but either way tomorrow games start at 12 was it 12 20 obviously because it's Atlanta and they can't just start things on time. Joe Giglio and I believe Elliot will be leading you into the game and obviously Marks and Reese will have you post game.

Nola versus Bryce Elder. Bryce Elder had a really, really good start to the season and has kind of been tiring out here. He's got a 4-3 ERA in his last eight starts, so it's not as daunting of a task as it looked at the beginning of the season when he was on a really, really good stretch at that point.

But either way, not the end of the world if he loses tomorrow because he still guaranteed himself a 3-3 road trip. A 4-2 road trip would obviously, I think, boost some fan morale winning two straight series on the road. That'd be great. And, hey, you know, the Braves had to use, for some reason, I know we hadn't pitched in the last couple days, but using A.J. Mentor tonight felt weird.

Joe Jimenez has just been okay, but still. I mean, A.J. Mentor has been someone that I would anticipate seeing tomorrow if the Phillies have a lead. So, I guess good on them having to use A.J. Mentor. But regardless, again, Aaron Nola, chance to rewrite his season starting tomorrow. And hopefully he can go out and do it. Either way, that's going to do it for me. Dan Wilson produced the program tonight.

We will have you after the game from Marks and Reese tomorrow reacting to what is hopefully a Phillies series win down in Atlanta. Jody Maxx got you next. He'll take you through the rest of the night here on Sports Radio 94 WIP.