High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: Phillies Squander Two-Run Lead To Marlins

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

Jack Fritz reacts to another frustrating loss by the Phillies. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Affordable never looks so good. No, this is not Steve Trevely's. It's Jack Fritz hanging out with you. It's starting to lightning outside, so it seems like maybe a storm is coming. So they got the game in in time, but frankly, just an annoying night down the ballpark. Probably could have been avoided, and I don't know. Just one of those games that when we're looking back at the end of the year, and there's obviously been a lot of them because it's baseball

and you lose frustrating games, but one of those games that you might look back on and say, if that doesn't happen, I wonder kind of how this season turns out. Either way, still tough on the Cubs, so not the end of the world. But still, an annoying night end of the world, but still an annoying night down at the ballpark. Welcome on and it's Jack Fritz here on the final.

If you're leaving the ballpark, 40 plus thousand down there again tonight, which was just great. If you're stuck in traffic on your way home, we'd love to talk to you and talk about this game tonight. 215-592-9494 is how you get in. Let's get to the biggest takeaway of the game. Brought to you and talk about this game tonight. 215-592-9494 is how you get in. Let's get to the biggest takeaway of the game. Brought to you

by Morgan & Morgan. My biggest takeaway of the game is this. I understand the pitch counts. I understand the innings. I understand trying to protect a guy, a young pitcher. Maybe you're worried about third time through the lineup.

But at some point the kid gloves have to come off with Christopher Sanchez because how are you gonna know what he can handle until you you put him out there in those situations like I just listen I I I appreciate Listen, I appreciate worrying about guys' inning limits and worrying about third time through. And if there was numbers that would suggest that he blows up his third time through a lineup, I'd be more prone to be like, okay, here's the benefit of the doubt. But the fact of the matter is that every time I watch Chris Sanchez, it seems like early in the game, a little shaky.

And then third through sixth usually, pretty good. Fourth through sixth, pretty good. I don't know where the evidence is that you have to pull Christopher Sanchez from games before he gets a third time through the lineup. If it's truly worried about pitch count or worried about the innings limit and him surpassing his innings, I get it. But like, we're also in September. He's been their second best starter this year. Like, just let him go try to figure it out. Let him figure out how to go deeper into games. Let him figure out a pitch out of jams rather than shielding him. And that's what bothers me is that Christopher Sanchez,

I mean, this is a kid that went, what, seven innings against the Orioles? You know, he's pitched deep into games at some points, but it feels like every little time we're like, no, this is a good pocket to get him out. He's out of the game. Whereas every other pitcher on the staff seems to get a ton more leeway. Why? Because they have, quote-unquote, more experience? I want good pitchers on the mound. And Christopher Sanchez has been their second-best starter this year. And it's frustrating that we're sitting here again.

I'm not saying Christopher Sanchez needed to go seven. I don't think he needed to go eight. I needed one more inning. I needed one more inning out of that game. So then if you want to go Sir Anthony, it's Sir Anthony in the seventh. Or you push these guys back. But to pull him in the fifth when he's rolling like that, that's frustrating. And I'm sure this isn't totally a Rob Thompson decision.

This feels maybe a little bit more up top, where it's like the third time they threw the order numbers or his career innings total and whatever. But if he was showing signs of hitting a wall and shutting down after he hits that wall, then you could sell me more on, we got to manage this guy's innings. But that hasn't been the case. The guy's had one start where he's allowed more than three earned runs. So where's the evidence? Someone tell me where the evidence is. Let the kid pitch. You might have a steal here.

It's just frustrating because he was rolling tonight, and you're in the fifth inning, and he breezes through that, and you're sitting here like a rational baseball fan, and you're saying, okay, we'll get one more out of Sanchez, and then hopefully the bullpen can hold it. But they went to the bullpen too early, and they brought in Sir Anthony in the sixth. And Sir Anthony, who again, you know, I couched it by saying the eye test doesn't totally

back it up, but he allowed one earned in his last 14 appearances. He basically, he hung a slider to Sanchez. And then he also hung a slider earlier that he was lucky didn't get taken out. Didn't have it tonight. It's just, we were talking about avoidable things, things that are avoidable. Sanchez didn't need to come out of that game. What they're going to tell you is we're managing

his innings, and we don't want him facing an opponent a third time through the lineup. But we'll let other pitchers do it? Guys who have not had the same success that Christopher Sanchez has had? It makes no sense to me. You've got to figure out if the kid can do it or not. I'm not trying to sound like he's got to go throw 124 pitches.

Whatever. I'm just saying, you've got to figure out if you can do it or not. And the kid gloves with Christopher Sanchez, given their starter problems this year, drives me nuts. And the kid gloves with Christopher Sanchez, given their starter problems this year, drives me nuts. Let the kid pitch. Let the kid pitch. That's my biggest takeaway of the game, which is brought to you by Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury

firm. 215-592- 9494 is how you get in. A couple other things that I want to get to here in the open and on my biggest takeaway from the game. Tomorrow, Rob, I'm begging you, please just switch Castellanos and Baum. I can't take it. He's in one of those funks right now where it's swing first pitch for no reason,

even though I guess in my head, if I'm trying to go inside the mind of Nick Cassianos, he seems like one of those guys that just wants to swing and swing and swing and hit his way out of this. It's killing him right now. That's a big spot in the game. Bryce just walked on four pitches. You have bases loaded. can we have just an ounce just an ounce of situational awareness can someone please like i don't care if dusty wathen literally brings out a stop sign and holds it up and says do not swing whatever it takes there's been way too much of it. Way too much of it. I mean, I talked about it on the pregame show. It's the first time in baseball history, we think,

that a player has, what was it, Tucker? Six outs on three pitches? Is that the stat that we came up with pregame? I think it was four pitches. Four pitches, six outs? He made it to the second pitch on one of those at-bats. It's just he is so aggressive and chase happy. They have to protect him.

And I know Boehm is not smoking the baseball right now. Alec Boehm is one of your best RBI guys, and for a majority of the season has been buried in the bottom of the lineup and still producing i will take my shot on that guy batting behind bryce instead of whatever version of nick castellanos we're getting right now and i'm not dumping on castellanos i like castellanos i think he's important for this team but what he's doing right now is it's it's it's just sinking him it's absolutely sinking him and my final absolutely sinking him. And my final takeaway of

the game is, I don't know how many times we have to see it for it to become abundantly clear that he can't do it. The second inning of Matt Strom thing does not have to happen. I know he's a converted starter. I know he's pitched multiple innings. It has happened over and over and over again where Matt Strom gets a big out. And again, if any of you out there have pitched and you've pitched at a semi-high level with any level of expectations, you know that when you come into a game and you get out of a jam, that it's an emotional high. Then you go to the dugout, you sit down, and that high is gone.

It's hard to create the adrenaline rush again to go back out there and reach that same heights. Matt Strom allowed a home run to Jacob Stallings tonight, who has three home runs on the year and is batting under 200 and is strictly in there because of his catching defense. He is essentially a pitcher hitting. It's happened multiple times this year. Every time they go to it, it seems like it doesn't really work out or it's at least a stressful inning. We don't have to keep doing it. We do not have to keep doing it.

At some point, we'll learn our lessons. I just hope it's not too late. 215-592-9494 if you want to get in. Mark's going to kick us off in Westchester. What's happening, Mark? Hey, you know, I'm one frustrated Phillies fan. I'll tell you why. Because I thought Rob Thompson kind of blew the game tonight because Christopher Sanchez was cruising.

He was dealing. I mean, he only threw 82 pitches. Why not let him go out for the sixth inning? He's already pitched like six, seven games already, at least this year. Yeah, well, I think if I'm just doing my best to read what they think,

I think they're worried about his innings total. I mean, he's going to surpass that. They're worried about a third time through the lineup, and they're worried about the amount of pitches on his arm or whatever, But 84 is nothing. At some point, they've got to take the kid gloves off with them. It might be an organizational mandate more than a Rob Thompson mandate.

I don't know. I'm getting tired of this analytics thing. I really am. It really frustrates me. Back in the day, they would allow these guys. It'd be like nothing to throw 100-plus pitches. And it gets to me. And then you save your bullpen, and, you know, you're going to need them a lot,

especially against the Braves, the way they hit the ball. You know what I'm saying? You know, you've got to think. Well, yeah, and I appreciate the call, Mark. And, listen, I understand that guys back in the day threw 150 pitches. that guys back in the day threw 150 pitches. I mean, they were talking about a 17-inning Robin Roberts start the other night on the broadcast, which is just ludicrous.

The fact of the matter is, pitchers' effectiveness go down as they get more tired. These bullpens have become more souped up. So if a pitcher can give them five, six, and you can kind of turn it over to your bullpen, you know, that probably gives you a better chance to win the ballgame rather than trusting a more depleted starter, especially a guy in Chris Sanchez, who's on paper, your sixth starter. My problem is, is that he's pitched better than that. There's no real evidence that

he can't face a lineup a third time through. And if you're worried about innings limits, show me where he's tiring. That's it. Like I would be on board if you could show me where he's tiring, but I haven't seen it. None of us have seen it. He's had two bad starts the entire year. none of us have seen it. He's had two bad starts the entire year. So it's frustrating. And yeah, Rob Thompson is going to get the blame for it, but this screen's more organizational than it does Rob Thompson.

215-592-9494 is how you get in. Jack Fritz hanging out with you here on the final. On the other side, a good non-answer from Rob Thompson postgame and a rant that I need to get to that I feel like comes up daily in my life. What is it? We'll get to that and more coming up next here on the final out. Castellanos with the bases full.

Billy's down a run. Here's the pitch. Swing and a ground ball towards the middle to his left bird. He gloves it, flips to second. They get the out. And another one pitch out for Nick Castellanos. As he grounds out weakly

to short. And the side is retired. That's my Mike's Amazing Play of the Game presented by Mike's Amazing, the official mayo, mustard, and vegetable oil of the Phillies. Welcome on back. It is the final out. Sponsored by Regency Furniture.

Affordable. Never looks so good. Jack Fritz hanging out with you. Here reacting to a tough Phillies loss down at home at Citizens Bank Park. Another big crowd, 40,000 plus. It was one that I just kind of felt like they were going to win. Sometimes it's so funny because I always say it feels like a loss. A majority of the time the last couple years, they legitimately did.

Tonight never really felt like it. I can usually feel a loss coming from a mile away. I thought Sir Anthony, you know, you know, fastball looked pretty good. Slider was hung a lot. Strikeout rate

I guess during the last little stretch here Is like 17% According to my good friend Anthony Sanfilippo Of Crossing Broad You know he's just It's why the The eye test hasn't matched The results recently for him

And then in that spot What makes that situation so frustrating in the terms of Nick Castellanos is that it's a big spot in the game. It's bases loaded. You're a team that has had a lot of comeback wins. And momentum is starting to build there. Bryce just walks on four pitches. Just a little bit of situational awareness.

I mean, you've played, again, this is what I never understand about big leaguers, is that you've played baseball, I mean, at least 20,000 baseball games, you would think by this point. Cassianos is in his 30s. He's been playing since he's a minimum of six years old, high level since probably 12.

It's almost automatic that you take after a four-pitch walk. And to do that in that situation, you're not even trying to take advantage of a pitcher maybe trying to give away a game and that's what makes it more frustrating and it's been so much of that again I mean he the other night five pitches three double plays it's it's just you can't have it and he's he's clearly pressing he's clearly um just wants to try to hit his way out of it. He's gotten a couple base hits here. It's not the 11 for 94 slump that he got in earlier this season, but still, it's like,

at minimum, you got to switch him in boom and get an RBI guy there that's probably not going to strike out, is at least going to work the pitcher, and has shown that he has the ability to drive in a ton of runs. Either way, after the game, apparently Rob Thompson was asked about Castellanos and didn't give a comment. So that, you know, puts up my antenna and says, okay, maybe we're getting a day off tomorrow. Maybe there's a switch coming in the lineup. If there is a switch, I'd be proud of Rob Thompson because Rob Thompson's usually a guy that will stick with his studs and stick with his stars and stick with the back of the baseball card.

And I'd be happy if he's showing a little bit of eye test because I thought last year, I know Castellanos was really good in the field in the postseason, just like we all predicted, but he kept him in that four spot. And I know they've reached game six of the World Series, but maybe someone else there, it comes out with a different result. So really frustrating, but I think Rob Thompson, no commenting after the game, would suggest that we get some kind of change tomorrow, whether it's Cassianos not in the lineup, or maybe they flip him and Boehm and see if they can't get something going

here. Mack is in Malvern. What's happening, Mack? You're just speaking my mind here. I don't understand the kid glove theory with a pitcher that's doing well, no runs, and they want to pull him out to

protect him. And then they bring in Sir Anthony Spann. I get it. He had, I think, three outings where one outing he struck out the side. Their bullpen was suspect. I heard Larry Anderson. Yeah, they're going to take him when, uh, their bullpen. I don't understand this. The bullpen's not, not lights out.

And that's the thing. I, it just, it's like you just said, frustrating. And then Nick Castellanos, a four pitch walk and then swings at the first pitch. I mean, get it into his head to not do that or roll the lineup and put somebody in there that knows situational baseball. It's just, this to me points the manager. I don't know why they pull him out

when five scoreless innings and then it's frustrating like you were saying. It really is a frustrating loss. Yeah, it's frustrating, Mac, and then it's frustrating like you were saying. It really is. It's a frustrating loss. Yeah, it's frustrating, Mac, and I appreciate the phone call. And with Christopher Sanchez, like if there was a lot of numbers and data points that would suggest that, yeah, third time through, not great, then I could understand it.

Or if there were signs that he's starting to reach his innings limit and he's getting a little bit worn down, I would say, okay, this is smart. Do it right now, and then if you want to pitch him in the postseason, great. But there really hasn't been any signs of that. He's actually been a guy, to me, that gets better as the game goes on. So this whole idea that five innings you've got to pull him and we're trying to protect his innings, I understand it, but I would like a little more data to suggest to me

that this is something they have to do. Now, there was one thing that drove me nuts, and I feel like I do this once a week on the final out here. But, like, again, tonight. And let me preface this by saying that Philadelphia is my favorite place on earth. I love us. I love this fan base. I love the passion. place on earth. I love us. I love this fan base. I love the passion. I just, I cannot take the Eagles' chance at a Phillies game in the eighth inning when they're down by one run. Like, do we

have to, do we have to do this at that point? Like, if they're getting blown out and it's an ugly night down at the ballpark and you want to do a little Eagles chant, sure. But, like, if I was, again, I feel like sometimes we just don't think of the players on the field. But if I was a Phillies player and I'm playing as well as we have and we've had the great fan moments

and I, as a member of this Phillies team, have heaped so much praise on the Philadelphia sports fan for how great you've been the last month and how magical the ballpark is. And I got to sit there or stand there in the field and hear a freaking eagles chant in the eighth inning of a one run game i would be incredibly annoyed it's as simple as that like just can you find something else to chant besides an Eagles chant?

Because if I was a player and I've gotten myself to be the number one wild card and I've worked my way to that point and we are playing really well at home and we have a special atmosphere, it would legitimately take some wind out of my sails. And it would be annoying. Now, I don't know how many people joined in on the Eagles chant at the game tonight. Maybe the field mics were just really close to it or the TV mics, whatever. It is just, and maybe I'm alone on this, and that's fine,

but it drives me up a freaking wall. Can we knock it off with the Eagles' chance at Phillies games and just save it for Sundays? If they're losing by a ton, knock yourself out. Whatever. But in a close game late where you're hoping they come back, it is nauseating. It is flat out nauseating having to hear an Eagles chant in a Phillies game. It is. And we love the Eagles. We love the Phillies. We love all the teams here.

That's not the point. If I was a player on that Phillies team, I would be annoyed by it legitimately. Just stop it. It drives me nuts. 215-592-9494 is how you get in. On the other side, we will look ahead to tomorrow before handing things off to who's ever coming up next. We'll get to all of that coming up next here on The final out. Hey, fantasy football owners. The road to winning your fantasy football championship starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from Reception Perception. Join me and James Coe as we take a deep dive

into the position that's going to make or break your fantasy roster. Wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share, and all the metrics that matter, giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers. As you prep for your draft,

let us give you the coverage you need. Follow and listen to Perception Perception on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Two and two, and the pitch. Swing and a high fly, deep right field. Castellanos looking up, and that ball is long gone. Well, he did it. Jesus Sanchez with a pinch hit.

Two-run home run has tied the game. And we start over here in the sixth inning. It's 2-2. Yes, Jesus Sanchez, our player of the game, which is brought to you by South Jersey Gas, committed to providing safe, reliable, affordable natural gas. Make the switch at southjerseygas.com slash lovemyhome.

Welcome on back. It is final out. Sponsored by Regency Furniture. Affordable. Never looks so good. Yeah, Jesus Sanchez has the big home run there. Again, like kind of look like a pop-up. Like did not take a, you know,

it didn't look like a totally strong swing on it. And then all of a sudden it's almost in the freaking bullpen. And then he also robs Stott of a possible double late in the game. So he came off the bench, had a really good game, tied the game, and ultimately probably the main reason why the Phillies lost tonight. So not a great night down at the ballpark, and a game that, again, it feels like they kind of gave away. But the good news is Cubs have lost two straight.

They lost earlier this afternoon. Obviously, the Phillies win that. They are three games up on the Cubs, which would just make me feel better. I do not want to go to Wrigley. With the way they're playing, and that's been a place that they've struggled the last couple years even though they had a pretty good series out there earlier in the year um just

not it's it's wriggly in october with that crowd behind them especially with how hot they've been i would much much much rather have the cubs have to come here but you know the phil's are still two games up on the cubs so that's a good a, you know, the Phils are still two games up on the Cubs. So that's a good thing after tonight. Even with the loss, still two games up. So not too terrible. Now, tomorrow, I know it's baseball and anything can happen. And, you know, bad teams beat good teams all the time. It's just as simple as this for me. Tomorrow cannot be a loss. Just cannot be a loss. You have Aaron Noel on the mound, which I know, believe me, that's not the reason why it cannot be a loss. But you have Noel on the mound. Last hour was bad. The two before that were very, very good. Hopefully, maybe that last star was just more of a blip in the radar.

I tend to think that it's not. But, no one on the mound against a weak hitting Marlins team. That's the first reason why it cannot be a loss. The other is Johnny Cueto. It's Johnny Cueto in the year 2023. Just go out and score six runs early and turn this into a laugher. Because tomorrow's can't be a loss. I'm going to be inconsolable if they lose this game tomorrow.

That is a matchup. NOLA versus 2023, Johnny Cueto cannot be a game that you go out there and lose, especially at home, especially after a tough loss. So I expect Schwarber to come out with hopefully a leadoff home run, whatever. But tomorrow cannot be a loss. So Johnny Cueto on the mound, Aaron Ola to 605 start. Obviously, we will have all the action for you here on Sports Radio 94 WIP.

Art is in the Northeast. What's happening, Art? Yo, French. on 94 WIP. Art is in the Northeast. What's happening, Art? Yo, French. Listen, as soon as he made the move with the pitcher, I was going a little nuts

knowing or feeling that that's going to either cost him the game. I guess it was a terrible error, and it's leaving me to a point where he's resembling so much. I'm forgetting the guy's name.

Joe Girardi, I'm sure. Thank you so much. Yeah, it just resents this over worrying, this over protection of the pitchers in future times when they're going to pitch. In future times when they're going to pitch, they won't be able to because he used them an extra inning. This is killing me, this over-worrying, whereas you bring in— But who besides Sanchez has he really done that with? Let me see. I just hear it all the time with him that he's worried about this pitch. I've heard him say it with other pitchers, except that Sanchez has been really pitching well, and he's done this.

And it's just so frustrating. But the point I'm trying to make here, and don't let me forget about his statement. I want to address that with you, too. But just the overprotection. See, what I'm seeing here is the bullpen has been very bad lately. And so Anthony has not been good so what it's almost like uh fritz it's almost like he's trying to stubbornly prove a point where he's going to continue to go to these guys who are failing lately uh as opposed well and i'll let you make your i'll let you finish up here. I guess my counter to that would be, Art,

is that if they're going to go deep in the postseason, getting Sir Anthony Wright matters a ton. And the reality is they are four games up in the last spot. They are two games up on the Cubs. So a loss isn't the end of the world. You're not catching the Braves. You've got to be careful. I mean, I understand what you're saying, and you made a very good point.

You want to get these guys going because you're going to need them for the postseason. Hats off to you for that and enlightening me on that. You're right. However, this attitude, Jack, that, you know, we're in good shape. That stuff sneaks up when you're not going right. That full belly that everything's fine. That goes away real quick. So you've really got to be careful.

I'm not saying to panic. You're right. We're still two games up on the Cubs. But the Marlins, you know, made a little move towards us tonight. And so, I mean, four games is not a lot when you're not hitting with runners in scoring position. You know, it sneaks up on you, Jack. But I'll go to the next point because I don't want to hog the radio. to the next point because I don't want to hog the radio.

My next point is I think in my opinion you might have misinterpreted his statement that he didn't want to make a comment. I took from that that Rob was a little annoyed and he's being ultra stubborn

and what I took from that is him saying don't ask me again about guys in the lineup like he was with Turner or anybody else. I'm not saying, you know, one way or another, whether he should move Cassie Ellis or not, although I think he should. That's not my point.

My point here is don't ask me about, just the way I talk it, don't ask me about guys in the lineup. I'm doing what I'm doing and I'm not going to move them. So let's look and see, Jack, what he does in regards. I understand where you're coming from, but I took it the opposite way. Yeah, totally fine. Time will tell us who's right. I think, listen, tomorrow around probably 3.30, Art, we will find out.

Appreciate the call, Art. Have a great rest of your night, okay? Thank you. You too. Yeah, it's just, yeah. And if you missed it, apparently Rob Thompson no commented after the game if he moved Nick Cassianos down. So in Art's world, he takes that as no comment means I'm gonna do what I want to do

but in the past if he truly believed in a guy I feel like he's always he's gonna hit he's gonna hit or he's gonna start playing well like Rob Thompson usually defends his guys publicly this is a little bit different um and out of the ordinary uh as to what Rob Thompson usually defends his guys publicly. This is a little bit different and out of the ordinary as to what Rob Thompson usually does. So, frustrating night down at the ballpark. I think the Rob Thompson critiques are fair tonight. The Christopher Sanchez stuff, you know, the big takeaway tonight was, like, we've got to stop managing with kid gloves. Like, the kid has proven he can pitch. There's not really a ton of evidence that suggests that he's tiring

or he's wearing down or he can't get through a lineup a third time. And at some point, you've got to let him go out there and try it. The one counter I would have to what Art was saying there about Rob Thompson rushing to get guys out of games. The Phillies have the number one starting staff in baseball when it comes to length that they go in games. I think he gives these guys a pretty long leash. Tywin Walker, I feel like he gives a long leash. Nola, traditionally.

Wheeler, obviously. Lorenzini let pitch into the 60 the other leash. Nola traditionally. Wheeler, obviously. Lorenzini let pitch into the 60 the other night. Now that was a case in which they just wanted to get through the game and not use anyone else, but still. Christopher Sanchez is the one that he just does not seem comfortable letting go out there

and kind of pitch through this thing. And I just, I couldn't at this point disagree more. But, I couldn't at this point disagree more. But, yeah, I guess we'll see. Tomorrow, again, Johnny Cueto, Aaron Nola, one of those games that you just can't lose. And

yeah, it's important at this point. And hopefully they can keep, you know, the Cubs at a punching distance away. Either way, that's going to do it for me. Tucker Bagley produced the final out tonight and did a great job as always. The game is tomorrow at 6 o'clock.

Obviously, we'll have a leading off and on deck with Greg Murphy before Scott in L.A. gave you all of the game and all of that good stuff. That's going to do it for me. Thanks for hanging out, Jack Fritz, here on the final out. Rob Sherry's got you next. He'll take you through the rest of the night here on WIP.