High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: There Was No Moral Victory Tonight

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

Jack Fritz and Tucker Bagley react to the Phillies' 6-5 loss at the hands of the Astros on Tuesday night at CBP. The guys discuss Andrew Painter's start and the offense's furious late-inning comeback attempt that fell short.Presented by Miller Lite.To purchase Ring The Bell by Jack Fritz and Kevin Reavy go to RingTheBellBook.com

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The crowd is singing high hope. I feel a little less warm. Welcome on into the High Hopes podcast. Jack Fritz alongside Tucker Bagley is there is no final out tonight, but there is a little postgame reaction to what was a close but no cigar fails win. Tucker, what's going on, pal? Not much. I was really dreading, you know, writing out the title for the postgame pod on YouTube as we stream it,

thinking maybe I'll hold off or maybe I'll do a nice little reverse jinx, but, you know, come back fall short. as Kyle Shorber is up to the plate and then I have an egg on my face. But unfortunately, it was correct. And unfortunately, we have to talk about another comeback that felt short, really due to the Phillies own shortcomings, right? I think the Astros opened the door for them quite a bit in the last couple endings. They had their opportunities to both tie the game and take the lead.

And they kind of fell flat again. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the biggest thing that hits me. Obviously, we'll get to Painter. We'll get to how the offense looks for the first. part of this game against Hayden Wisniewski, who, I mean, I know that everyone throws 95 now, but for throwing 95, I felt like he had slop mostly from the right side. So it was frustrating watching the Phillies get shut down by that. I just don't understand how this team at this point with this amount of veteran players still does this same nonsense seemingly once a week,

if not twice a week. And I know they had the big old meeting about, hey, we're the worst on-based percentage team in baseball. Maybe we should just decide not to be that. Now, they've reverted back once they started facing better pitching. You know, I think part of the reason why they went on the office of tear that they went on was that they were facing a lot of just mediocre to bad pitching staffs. Now that the level of competition has been rants up a little bit,

you're starting to see the fills look kind of like the fills. And it does feel like October is right around the corner as there's a little Christmas in the air and the Phil's bats have been going a little bit cold. But, but can we just have a meeting or some kind of accountability with whatever is going on in the base pass? And it's not even now. It's been going on for years. I mean, they are a dumb overall baseball team. But it's, it feels like it's reached a breaking point to where you guys.

I just start yanking guys from games. Like, if Brandon Marsh was yanked from that game tonight, I would have applauded Don Mattingly because someone has to own it or else they're never going to learn. And it's going to cost them October. It's cost them games this year. It may cost them the division because it's going to come down to the wire. It's mind-numbing the way that they act on the base pass. Yeah, and I think it's kind of a microcosm of the issues that have plagued this team in the past.

And, you know, when they've won, especially in the postseason, you know, they win basically by out-dominating teams, right? Like either they slug five home runs, they win, you know, 10-5, or they rely on their elite starting pitching, which I think going into the postseason, that's the recipe, right? As you rely on those horses at the top of the rotation and you didn't get that tonight from Andrew Painter. But you had opportunities. And what worries me is this team doesn't do enough on the margins to win on the nights where he don't get his dominant start, where he don't get Cowell Shore rating two home runs with the offense, you know, blowing up and, you know, hitting, you know, 10, 12 hits. Knights like tonight where the Astros gave you chances to win, gave you chances to tie this game late. And you kind of just ran it out. It's like Brandon Marsh had the issue.

We can talk about Alec Bohm going back to the second base on that fly ball. You always tag up on a ball that gets hits off the wall. I mean, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Especially when you're Alec Baum, right? Like speedy guy, clearly going to go take the extra base with nobody out there in the, whatever that was, six-ending, seventh inning. But, I mean, that's kind of what this team's shortcomings have been. Like, if their offense isn't hitting the way it was in August, if they're starting pitching isn't as dominant as it has been, they struggled to win because they can't do the little things right.

When you watch postseason baseball and we watch the teams that do go deep, even the Dodgers, right? As much talent as the Dodgers have, they win because they make smart plays, right? And just instinctually, I think even defensively, this team struggles. Like my big issue with Trey Turner, I know his defense last show was improved. It's been all right recently, but go back to the second inning where they gave up the fifth run and the base runner ran through the stop sign. He wasn't even prepared to watch that guy go home. Like he turned around and had the ball in his back pocket already. And the guy scored when he should have been out by a mile,

but he just wasn't ready for it instinctually. I just think that's one of the issues that continues to plague this team. And as they get older and as they become a little less talented and they have to rely on these things to win, it's not something they're good at. Like they're not good at base running. They're not good at defense. They're not good at situational baseball. And I don't want to get into like a small ball, you know, talk here.

I don't want to get on my soapbox and talk about bunning and, you know, hit and runs. How the game used to be played. Yeah, I mean, play it the right way, but like, this team never has. And I don't know if they had the capabilities to ever do it. Speaking of Trey, now he had a really, really good offensive night. So that was much more important than anything that happened. I do feel bad. That was the first mention.

He had a very good day at the plate. Yeah, I liked it five minutes into a podcast where they ran into three outs in the, they had three big base running mistakes late. We're focusing on the Trey Turner playing the second inning. but on top of that, he also couldn't throw out a catcher. Like, it was the third inning, and he does the backhand thing. And I don't know, I think we've talked in the podcast a million times. I've been spoiled.

We've been spoiled. You've been spoiled. Most of our audience has been spoiled. Unfortunately, if you are, I want to say, Tucker, like 25 and under, 24 and under, you don't understand what it was like to watch Jimmy Rollins play shortstop. But you had Freddie Galvis. Yes, of course. of course. Now, he was also a wizard there for sure.

So now, I don't think that many people were paying attention during the Freddie Galvis era at shortstop, but regardless, that is a play that I've seen made my entire life. Not with this guy. And I do hope they hand him a left field glove this offseason as not to spoil a little minor league minute, but one of the prospects had another big night.

Anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway. So there's so many frustrating parts about the end of the game, which we'll get into. Well, we're going to get into it now. But, and I love Edmundo, if you don't stare at the ball, you're on third base. I mean, and he stumbled around second base. If he's on third base, the Derek Hill ball to right field is probably deep enough to score him. I mean, it would have been a bang, bang play at the plate for sure. Like, it was not a 100% locked in.

would have been able to score kind of play. But it's that kind of stuff. And listen, Edmundo has been so good in the late game situations. And I am, like, I am pro, like, you know, showing emotion in big spots. But, man, it just hurts when if he, if he just goes, he's on third base with no outs. and it should be at least a tie game and maybe we're having a different type of podcast tonight. Yeah, and like I said,

it just goes back to the situational issues this team has. And I texted you as soon as he hit it. Like, he just tends to pimp all his fly balls now. Every ball to the outfield, he starts undoing his batting gloves before he's even out of the batters box, which I just think is hilarious. But when you're in a situation like that

where you represent the tying run, get on your horse a little bit. You know, he hit it hard. He hit it well to the opposite field. He missed a home run by a couple feet, but you're right. I mean, you had two balls in the seventh and ninth inning there

where if you ran the bases a little better, you probably tied the game or you probably take the lead. Like you had two opportunities where you could have easily taken extra bases, but because of poor base running, and then he had Brandon Marsh running into that double play by not freezing. on the line drive to Jeremy Pena. But you have three plays there

where you either are keeping yourself in the game or you're taking advantage of a defensive miscue. Like they had two, you know, kind of real poor defensive plays in the outfield by the Astros that they really got nothing out of. Yeah. And it just hurts. And I think the thing that

you kind of sit with tonight as they lose that game is it's been a season of this. It's been, I mean, it's been a couple years of this. And you just have a fear of this being something that is going to come back to bite them in the postseason. Unfortunately, all we think about now is how is this going to affect this team in the postseason?

And you look at them and it kind of feels like, well, the starting staff is great. We get to Panter. The offense is hit or miss. The bullpen, I think we feel more shaky about heading into a postseason series than we have in years. passed. I mean, the 24 bullpen we felt like was locked down and it ended up not being. You know, and then you add this kind of stuff on top of it, how they never seem like that they are a crisp, clean, locked in type team. And it's one of those things where it's just really hard to believe that that's going to be something that all of a sudden when the bright lights hit

of October, that they're just going to be good from that standpoint. And I just, It's such bad baseball. You know, you look at the teams that win in October. You look at the teams that win the World Series. You mentioned it a little bit ago. The Dodgers don't get there by just out-talenting everyone. Now, they have great talent, and what they're able to do with putting their starters in the bullpen,

obviously really helps. But they also pull off the wheelplay. They also pull off Miguel Rojas having a big moment. They pull off all of these little things. that help a team win a World Series. And, you know, when the Phillies do something fundamentally sound or they, you know, get them over, get them in, or just put a simple bunt down,

we always act like it's some crazy concept because we just have such little faith in their ability to do the small things that it takes to win in October. Yeah, and, you know, that's just the worry. Like you said, like you said, Like they've out talented other teams when they've won in the postseason, right? Like when they've gotten hot offensively or, you know, pitching wise, that's when they've won.

And they've really struggled to when the offense struggles or when the pitching straff struggles to really figure out and how to win on the margins. And, you know, unfortunately, in the postseason, the margins are razor thin. And the ability to win a game with your base running or win a game with your defense. Like just go back to 2022 and think about how they won some of those closer games. against the Braves or the Potteries or kept themselves in games against those guys. And

this team just doesn't do those things. And I don't know if that's just who they are, because it seems like an easier thing to do, right? Like, it seems easier to just play smarter baseball than it is to, you know, hit 50 home runs or hit, you know, 315 and win the batting title.

Like, those should be the difficult things. The things on the margins, the fundamentals should be the easy things for this team to pick up. But it just feels like they're kind of waiting around for October for a switch to flip. And I don't really know if they have that switch in their arsenal. Like they've never really switched that, that flip, flip that switch. I used screw that up all the time.

No one was better at scurring that simple lineup than me. You know, maybe this podcast doesn't do the small ball things well either. And maybe that's why they haven't got the job done in October. It's on us as well. It's on us as well. The podcast hasn't done it done in October either. I know, I know. I would love to see done.

baseball, do something. I mean, he's been kind of now. Briggs Raleigh. Gave Brooks Raleigh a shot tonight. I know. Now, I believe Brooks Ralee is good. I am frustrated that he seems to allow a home run or run every single time he's brought in, whether that is an inherited run or just in his own inning.

I was starting to get annoyed. He was about to be brought into a 5-0 game rather than in a bit of a higher leverage spot. But then he made me look like a big old dumb idiot. So it wouldn't have mattered anyway. But yeah, pitching wise tonight. Painter's the big story. You know, I kind of mentioned it last podcast that he pitched really well out in Arizona.

But there was a little bit of a decline in in the stuff and specifically the fastball. You know, the fastball since he had come back was in around the 2,500 RPM range. and in his last start, it was like in the 2300 RPMs. And, you know, the first thought on that is, okay, maybe he's tiring out a little bit. I mean, he's over 130. I think he's, you know, probably closer to 140 innings now. And it's a big workload for a kid. Obviously, he's dealt with a lot this year, getting sheled, going to AAA, then coming back up.

A lot of, you know, mental wear and tear. So maybe he's just kind of, you know, wearing. down a little bit. And then tonight, what was tough about tonight is that the first inning looked like the Cardinals start here, where the stuff just flashed immediately. And then it just died on them. And I really thought everything else was okay. I thought the slider was fine. A couple of the changeups he threw tonight were sick. And it was like, all right, there it is. really tonight the fastball command was bad and i did not think he had uh i think he may have lost the arm slot a little bit because you didn't see the life on the pitch that you have seen

uh really since he's come back from the minor leagues yeah i mean i thought he battled and you know i kind of thought what we saw from andrew painter tonight was what you sort of expect for from a rookie starter i mean he has been been great the last month or so really since he got got called back up maybe that twin start notwithstanding, but I love the way he battled after giving up that grand slam in the first inning. But, you know, what you saw tonight, you're right.

Like, his stuff wasn't really all there. He probably looked a little tired. The home run he gave up. He knew as soon it was off the bat. I mean, that was probably 400, 420 feet.

It was unbelievable. It felt like the, remember the A's start this year where like Langalears hit one 700 feet off of them and then Rooker? And it was like, ah, yeah, I know this one.

his face like oh, that sounded good off the bat. He really got a hold of that one back. I don't want it. So he did give up some hard contact again, but, you know, even though his pitching line doesn't look great, 10 hits, five rounds, two walks, six strikeouts, he at least fought

and gave them a chance, which is something he really didn't do earlier in the season. I just think maybe if it's not a moral victory for the Phillies, it might be a moral victory for Painter that he was still, after getting shelled early in the game, still able to give you, you know, five innings and at least save the bullpen a little bit?

A little bit, yeah. I don't feel as good as I did after the twin start. I thought the twins start after he allowed that grand slam. He really was great. Tonight, it was a lot more our hard contact, you know, like even some of the outs were, were pretty well-struck. So I think it's just a mechanical tweak. It's either one of two things.

Like, I think there's a mechanical tweak or he's semi-running out of steam. but at the same time, like, you know, Aaron Nola went from, I thought, running out of steam and, you know, on his last leg as a pitcher to all of a sudden there's life back on his pitches. And, you know, same thing with Wheeler. So I'll give him a little bit of a grace period here. But I just think there's been too much good with Painter to do the thing of, oh, there he is. There's the Andrew Painter. Because I think some of the stuff really still flashed on that. And, you know, I mean, there were a couple changeups that were awesome.

I know we got Yordon out with a changeup that was sick. Yoron, by the way, 0 for five tonight. I think it was only 0 for five game of the season. So what's something about left-handed hitters coming in here, like him and Otani. They can't figure it out. They can't figure out CBP. That's what it is. But yeah, the painter thing is a bummer.

But I guess I'll be more curious as to what his next start looks like, rather than freaking out too much about tonight. Yeah, I don't want to overreact to a young pitcher struggling the way he did because it's just going to be a season of adjustments, right? I mean, think back to the 2013 Phillies video yearbook, which is titled, a game of adjustments. I mean, that's what Andrew Painter's going through right now. I did not know that that was the title of 2013 video yearbook.

I think it was 2013. What were they adjusting? That's my question. What was the big adjustments going on? I mean, they certainly weren't incorporating more analytics. and I guess like Don Brown maybe being an all-star that year. That was the game of adjustments. I would love to know.

Yeah, 2013, a game of adjustments. Interesting. Interesting. What were they adjusting? What were they adjusting? That's the big question. Yeah. When talking to the 20th.

Fire manual, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 2012, 81 and 81. Got to get skip out of there in 2013, a year and a half removed from 102 wins. he was the issue. He was the issue.

That photo of him walking down the tunnel holding his wah-wah bag is like one of the saddest photos in franchise history. Well, yeah. Yeah. And just think. There's a, as I've gotten, you know, into my 30s now, starting to realize there's a whole generation of people that have no idea about, you know,

the era of Phillies that we grew up on. So somewhere out there right now, there's a 13-year-old kid listening to this podcast that has no idea about the Charlie Wawa bag. And if you're one of those people, hey, you might even be 16. You know, three years old,

there's no way you were locked in on, on, Rubin firing Charlie Manuel. So go look up the Charlie Wawa bag and get a little bit sad. Get a little bit sad. All right, Tucker. You mentioned Brooks Raley.

Very disappointing. I still swear that he's good. I promise that he's good. I promise that he's good. It's hard to believe he's good. I know his numbers were good. I know he pitched really well. And he's had a track record of success getting lefties out.

But man, he's automatic for giving up a run again. I know. I know. We're going to hang in there. We're going to hang in there and we're going to hang tough. Painter was disappointing. Alvarado, you know,

had a pretty good inning. Everyday Mesa. It was good to see sugar in there for the first time since like August 13th. Did you see it's changed his warm-up music? Yeah, he's got some deaf leopard. Pour some sugar, which like that should have been from, I don't know if they choose it on their own or if they have help from the team staff,

but I feel like that should have been automatic from the beginning. Well, yeah. I mean, I always think there should be consultants when it comes to walk-up songs, and that should have been one from day one. That would have been an easy one to get done. Chase, you have enough on your plate. Let the professional sandal it.

We got it. So yeah, I don't think tonight's a moral victory. I think it is a frustrating loss. I'm glad that they came back. I'm glad that they at least work the Astros bullpen a little bit. You got a hater in there. They faced a Brayu. Harper just missed a fricking hanger from a Brayu that I thought he was going to hit 700.

He gave Bome two fastballs that were kind of center cut. He really did. He really did. Not a great Bryce night. He had the one hit, but not super competitive at Bats. Trey had a very good night at the dish. Marsh had a double for his extra race hit since August 21st. As always, the jinks works.

Tweeted about it yesterday, and he comes through today, as he often does. I really thought Derek Hill was going to have a moment, as always, but he did not. And then tomorrow, you got Sanchez on the mound versus Hunter Brown. don't love going into a game having to face Hunter Brown, who is when healthy, one of the best pitchers in the American League. And I would like to see Sanchez. There's been a lot of talk today about the game one starter

and who the game one starter should be. I know that Gell wrote and they put out the idea of Lazzardo coming out of the bullpen in game one and then use that as his bullpen session and then being ready to go in game three. and my counter to the whole idea is, well, what if he's your best starter? And you have to throw Lazardo in game one. Like, it feels like we're getting a little too cute with this thing. And I love Chris Sanchez, of course.

I mean, he's one of our guys. But, like, Lizardo has the best of the array in baseball since July 1st. If you go back to June 1st, he is the most value. He's tied for first with Dylan Cs, if you care about F1, as the most valuable starter in baseball. So are we really just going to have him start game three? Like I just, I think we've reached crazy land. I love Zach Wheeler.

I love Chris Sanchez. If Lozardo finishes out the season, the way the Lazzardo has been since June 1 or July 1, there's no freaking way I'm just having him sit on ice until game 3. And he was awesome in the playoffs last year too, right? Like, you could overanalyze it and you could say, well, I don't want to go lefty, lefty in games one and two. And you could try to find a ways to get cute with it. But, I mean, if you just look at who the best pitchers have been, he's been better than both Wheeler and Sanchez.

And I don't know, I think Sanchez, unless the wheels absolutely fall off in the last two weeks, he's pretty much penned in to be game one starter, no matter what. I think Lizarro has to be game two. And then if you're in that situation, you're in a three game series against the Cubs. you then have Zach Wheeler as your game three starter in a winner go home situation. Or if you winning two games, you have Zach Wheeler as your game one starter in the NLDS. Like, I just think it makes more sense for him to be penciled in in game one, most likely game two, then trying to get cute and giving him two winnings in game one and then maybe five in game three.

I think it's crazy. And, and especially, especially. While I agree with you, I think if the season ended today, Sanchez is starting game one in Chicago. Okay. But am I really not going to start the guy? Now, I guess you can make the case, hey, him in game two, if you happen to lose game one, you feel really good about Lazzardo. But the guy could go 10 and 0 on the road with an ERA of right now. it's 1.76. We'll see where it ends up.

But he's having a historical road season. There's no freaking way that I'm waiting for game three to have him start a game. So I like the creativeness. I like the idea of bringing him out of the bullpen if he

had it turned a corner. But it's it's like we're still talking about Lazardo as a number three and not one of the ten best pitchers in baseball. That's what it feels like to me. And I know like win-loss isn't early a pitcher set.

They're 18 and 2 in his last 20 starts. Yeah, I know. 16 and 4. I take that back. There's 16 and 4 in his last 20 starts. No fake news here. 18 and 2. 18 and 2 sounds better.

One was an extra innings. One was a 1-0-0. Those don't count. Oh, that doesn't count at all. Come on, man. He's been dominant. He has been dominant. Drink up, baby. Fantasy Football Happy Hour is here to get you wins and have some laughs. Matthew Berry here and my podcast, Fantasy Football Happy Hour, has the sleepers bus and starts-it advice you need to win your league.

We're diving into the tape. We're crunching the numbers to bring you sleepers. Bus weekly starts-sid advice, whether you're defending a title or desperately avoiding last place. I've got you covered every single weekday. The bar is open. It's Fantasy Football Happy Hour with Matthew. Barry wherever you get your podcast. So I did mention one little minor league minute thing that I wanted to bring up real quick, because I know this is

not a normal podcast, but I feel like we have not talked enough, or it's mostly my fault, I have not talked enough about Brian Rinconi having 24 home runs as a shortstop for Redding this year. And it's not like he's just a Redding merchant where he's hitting all these home runs.

runs just at Redding. His road splits and home splits are fine. It's not like he's just, it's not like Coors versus away. And he's not Dylan cousins. No, no. But 24 home runs from a 22 year old shortstop

who plays gold glove caliber defense is crazy. Like he's already, you know, he's number five on pipeline, which is good. Maybe he works his way into being a top 100 prospect at the end of the year. I don't know.

but the fact that this kid this year as a 14th round pick finally stayed healthy there were some signs of this in spring training where he bulked up and he was all of a sudden hit the baseball really really hard it's pretty exciting and i feel like i haven't been excited enough because i don't know like i he's kind of i always i'm always skeptical of a prospect that burst onto the scene and you know has never had a huge pedigree and maybe there's like a little readiness to it where the ballpark small. But man, 24 home runs from a from a shortstop prospect. It's pretty special. His OPS Super 900, he's a great defensive shortstop. We've mentioned in the last podcast that like six major league caliber shortstop possibly in the in the system. I mean, this kid's going to be knocking on the doorstep next year.

You know, he's probably going to start the AAA. Triple A is going to be awesome next year with like, Aidan will be up there. He'll be up there. be up there. D. Martini will be up there. The whole Iron Pigs team this year is like a bunch of castoffs of, you know,

that were once good prospects. It feels like we're finally going to get some of our guys. Like, Gage will be up there. There's more, you know, that I'm not even, like,

thinking of right now. I just want to mention, like, the Brian Rincone season, because we may have found a little diamond in the rough here. And I don't know if he's a shortstop for the major league team. I think he's started there tomorrow. Who knows what happens with the Trey?

but you start dreaming upon a Rincone, Miller, Spangler, you know, kind of infield up there. I don't know what they do with Stott. I still feel like Rincone's kind of trade bait, which would hurt my soul at this point. But it's a really, really fun season. And not to mention, Aiden got brought up to AA already, so they are not wasting any time,

and they are getting him right back. Do you go to AAA next week? Well, so I don't know. I don't know. I would. Like, I would. I would leave him in AA. I wonder if they want to make sure they win an Easter league title and have Aiden be a part of the mix.

All of a sudden, you got the top of the lineup of Rincone, Nore and him, you know? Pretty excited. So, I don't know. I would put him in AAA. Hey, I would even have him ready for the postseason roster. I'm just kidding. But the Rincone season has been pretty special, Tucker. I don't know how much.

Because he came out of nowhere, especially offensively. Like he's never really had a big offensive bat or protected well offensively. I know. Well, it was always the talk within the system was always, if he can just hit, they got a dude.

And he's starting to hit. And that's exciting. Now they'll probably trade him. Now that we're talking about it more and more. But 24 home runs from a shortstop prospect with a great glove, pretty unheard of. Very exciting stuff, very exciting stuff. The systems on the rise, no doubt about it.

All right, that is a little positivity on what was and could have been. Are we on a positive note? Who are we, Greg Murphy? Well, positive fella when it comes to the baseball team. And really, if they didn't do the dumb stuff on the base pass, tonight could have easily been a moral victory. But nevertheless, they did the dumb stuff on the base pass

and it really it just irks me so that's going to do it for us Tucker appreciate joining us for the post game pod we are planning on doing another one tomorrow I think we'll do another one tomorrow but you know

hopefully it's a win but Hunter Brown versus Chris Sanchez I don't know I'm a little nervous about that one Tucker I'm excited I'm excited for a nice pitching matchup oh nice nice you've always been a pitcher There's douls been good, good. Love a quick game. Well, not 151.

151 is going to hold around for a long time. Long time. And it couldn't even be on a weekday, so that Salter could have gone to bed. Had to be on a Monday on late. Happened so quick. He didn't realize it happened. I know.

We surprised Seltzer yesterday with the announcement that Hazers started to pitch nine shutout in in in a one. I think Philly's wins. So good to see that. All right. For Tucker Bagley and Jack Fritz. This has been another edition of the high host podcast.