High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: What's Going On With Aaron Nola?
Episode Date: April 17, 2025Jack Fritz reacts to Aaron Nola's latest shaky start in the Phillies' 10-4 loss to the Giants on Wednesday night. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy pract...ices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Ohhhh welcome on in.
It is the final out.
Sports Radio 94 WIP Jack Fritz hanging out with you here on this
Wednesday night as we react to an incredibly frustrating night a just a miserable night. I mean a
miserable night
Down at the ballpark if you hung around till the end. I applaud you if you left early
I don't blame you. You know, we don't do that that We stay for all 27 outs not with the effort that this team is
putting forth the
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Ninety four ninety four is how you get in if you're stuck in traffic
We'd love to hear from you or if you watch the game like I did on my couch
We'd love to hear from you as well as we
Continue to vent about this team. Oh, man. I saw some there are 95 win pace
After they won last night.
Who cares? I mean seriously, who cares? It's April 16th and I mean let's just get into the
biggest takeaways the game brought to you by Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury law firms.
What are we supposed to be inspired about with this team? I mean
At least to open the season weren't really chasing. They were walking a lot. They weren't striking out and
now
They just look dead. I mean they just look dead and I'm sure the weather is not helping but
what's frustrating is
Last year they went out in embarrassing fashion and they had played bad baseball for two months and they kept telling us
everything was be fine we're professionals we'll figure it out then
they they go into the Mets series, they get pantsed by their biggest division rival.
Well, I guess the Braves, whatever, Braves, Mets, you get the point.
And then, don't really do much soft season.
I like Hazel's Lazardo, obviously.
He's been good.
Kepler, again, fine.
They're fine.
They're fringe pieces.
But they weren't needle movers.
Hopefully Lazardo can be. And the hope was that the internal fire
of losing to the Mets would be enough
to galvanize this team.
Well, what are we watching?
I mean, they're getting boat raced by this Giants team.
Giants scored 25 runs this series.
I mean, the Phillies walked 9 tonight,
couple with the bases loaded, unacceptable. And there's just no, there's no look like
they're pissed off. There's nothing that screams we're going to, we're out here to win every
single game. It looks like more of the same and I get this April 16th. I like I
Just don't think I've ever seen a Philly's team
Besides like the end of the run
I know and and I'm sure that if you want to go back to the 2006 team
With a Bray you when they were getting close like, you know, Oh three Oh four Oh five close close close
but couldn't get over the top and You know know, Pat Gillick at the time said,
Hey, we haven't won with this core.
It's time to shake it up and change the chemistry on the team.
And that's exactly where I feel like we're with this team.
This team needs to shake up in a, in the worst way.
Maybe they need to like really hit rock bottom. I don't think they've hit rock bottom another two
games over 500 I get it but just watching them they they need a shakeup of
some sort whether it's demoting someone who's been here for a long time like a
Brandon Marsh whether it's moving on from Kevin Long. I think demoting Johan Roas. I don't know that that sends a message to anyone
But they just maybe it's too early to fire Kevin Long. I don't know
I have no interest in him really still being here. I mean the guys
The guys let us offense for two and a half years
Teams pitch them the same exact way. They like the same offense they strike out all the
Time they cannot hit with Ron in scoring position. They
Like this all oh, oh they slug my ass. I mean seriously my ass do they slug?
Kyle Schorber slugs and Bryce Harper slugs. That's it. That's it. That's it
Trade isn't slug. I mean what, that's it, that's it.
Trade isn't slug. I mean, would it kill the guy to get two hits in a game?
Would it kill him?
Seriously, trade isn't slug.
Stott doesn't slug.
JT doesn't slug.
The six foot five third base pincher doesn't slug.
Max Kepler doesn't slug.
Brandon Marsh and Johan Rojas don't slug.
Nick Castellanos doesn't slug. What are we talking about?'t slug. Brandon Marsh and Johan Rojas don't slug. Nick Castellanos doesn't slug.
What are we talking about?
They slug. My ass.
They don't slug. I don't know what this offense is.
That's the thing that's beyond frustrating tonight,
and beyond frustrating this entire series.
I brought it up earlier.
Heading into the series, you could probably ask
the average baseball fan to name you three giants and they struggle to get there. And I've like watching them.
First off, they look more prepared. They are ripping doubles and base hits and making hard
contact against this Phillies pitching staff so far. And it not not to over-dramaticize the point, but I'm annoyed.
You got Pat Burrell leading them.
I mean, Pat Burrell, now Pat Burrell's
an unbelievable hitting coach.
He's got these guys like all locked in
and using all parts of the field
and no one's jumping out of the way of an inside fastball.
I just, it's infuriating.
And I can't do the it's early thing.
If you ever listen to me, if you know anything about me,
I love this baseball team.
I have no interest in crushing them.
But I also watch them on a night in and night out basis
and I can't help but think about what happened
at the end of last year and how it looks exactly the same and they just look like a dead team
walking they need a shakeup of something I felt that at the end of last year and
nothing has changed nothing has changed with this team they need a shakeup they
can go as drastic as firing the hitting coach they can go as
drastic as sending down one of the players has been here for a winning over the last
couple years whatever but but mix up the chemistry in some way because even when you win it still
doesn't look right they don't play a winning brand of baseball. They, and when you can hit home runs
and and quote unquote slug your way out of it, it's fine. But what this lineup does
more often than not is strike out, create weak contact. They are horrible, horrible, with runners in scoring position.
I mean, horrible.
Cannot just get a job done.
And when they do get a job done, it feels like a mistake.
There has to be some level of competence
with runners in scoring position,
but it just feels like an accident
every single time they execute, rather than that's what they're planning to do and
Just the quality of it bats drives me nuts, too
I mean from Turner to Cassiano's in the first anything they have tanner or Robbie Ray on the ropes
Swings it at 2-0 fastball after he just walked a guy the batter before him
What are we doing? I mean, what are we doing?
Boom doesn't work in a bat JT for the most time doesn't work in at that
You watch Schwab er you watch Harper and you say
There's a professional at bat and so many other guys. I mean that's that's talking about your your quote-unquote star players
That's not even getting to the the marsh of the world, the rojas of the world, like the
bottom of the lineup.
That's the guys that are supposed to be carrying you.
And Cassie, I know you've set a good start in the season, I'm not here to kill Cassie,
but it's just, there's times where it's infuriating.
I mean have a feel, I mean't have to, you get three strikes.
You don't have to rush out there.
They're just so jumpy.
They're just so jumpy.
215592, 94.94.
Apologies for the rant.
I just, it's just a frustrating start to the year.
I know they're 10 and eight.
I know there's five months left,
but it just feels like more of the same. and the final thing here before we go to the phones
and again to a five five nine two ninety four ninety four is
Is the bullpen just felt an arm shorter a year. I mean
that last year in that spot instead of it being hoser and and I
Don't blame Rob Thompson for going to Erin Nola in that spot that spot Erinola before that inning had thrown I believe
19 or 20 straight strikes he had found a rhythm first inning didn't go well, but it had settled in
I mean he threw 30 pitches in the first inning and then ended up at 81 heading into that that inning
I believe so he found a rhythm. I'm fine with him putting him out there
He has to steal innings some way when you're in a stretch We were playing for 22 straight days
it's just that
To have to go to Jose Ruiz in that spot where last year that's probably Kirkering spot because they have more arms
I mean that's that that kills you Jose Ruiz is not a is not a high leverage arm
I think he's someone on a good day
You're up by three or more you're down by three or more and the he can get you through the day, you're up by three or more, you're down by three or more, and
he can get you through the sixth.
I know that inning was the sixth, but still that's a high leverage spot that's bases
loaded and you've got to find your way out of that.
But even with Jordan Romano, and now it's nice to see him maybe rounding a corner here,
even with him being good, the idea of him being good,
they still felt an arm short.
And again, to have to go to Jose Ruiz in that spot,
who's probably not built for that,
that costs you a ball game.
That costs you a ball game.
So, you know, nine walks in total tonight,
some bad walks out of the bullpen, Joe Ross,
I mean, just getting his teeth kicked in. guess Wendy I guess sometimes hard to command the baseball
but I don't I don't really care I got no time for for excuses Travis is in
California what's happening Travis what's up Jack what's up brother I got a
couple things first of all
Rojas and Marsh should not be here anymore both of them or one of them. They need to be sent down or something
I don't know how much of a message it's sent it's sent to send one of them down but
Just something needs to be done. Like you can't be hitting under a hundred
You can't have no hits since the second game of the season
You can't be as bad as Johan Rojas is at the plate and let a ball drop in front
of you in the outfield and then make the throw he made tonight to end the tie and
just like not get like have zero accountability.
Like they just, no one ever has accountability on the team.
Someone could get lit up and Rob's like, Oh, I thought he pitched well.
Pitch, uh, the Martian Rojas or whoever else suck.
They're right back in there the next day or whatever the case may be.
Like nobody is ever held accountable. and it's just beyond ridiculous. Like everyone can just
suck it up and like, no, like, all right, I'll be back there tomorrow. Like, can you imagine if that
was life for all of us? Like if I, if I stuck in my job as bad as Brandon Marsh or Johann Rojas,
I get fired or demoted, but that's not like, it's just ridiculous. That's not the case with them.
Also Bolton, horrible. They didn't improve it.
And this is what they get.
Everyone on earth knew it was an armor too short, but Dave, apparently he kept
trying to convince the fans like, Oh, it's good enough.
We got a good club.
No, it's not, dude.
You lost Estevez and Jeff Hoffman.
And you replaced them with a guy who's coming back from arm surgery and Joe Ross,
who's been like mediocre his whole career finally with the thing in milwaukee last year
remando
he's figuring it out i guess
but joe ross is just flat out horrible like
i did not have a large arm and if you want to make him a for a fifth inning
swing guys on the abut is not a quick and like he's
even then he's not good
final it's a particular and then even with the lineup like everyone knew the lineup was not good enough whether they win sure they may win 95 games
but everyone knows and
They would do the same thing in the playoffs like everyone knows that that would happen at the same team
They're not just suddenly gonna change
But once again Dave apparently thought
Otherwise, he thought he could just run it back like just do your freaking job and improve the team or retire.
Like you, you and John say you want to get the trophy back or die trying, but
you haven't improved the lineup in three years.
You have a terrible bullpen that you did not improve.
You let it get worse.
You have two triple A players, platooning in centerfield for the third straight year.
It's just, it's beyond frustrating.
Like I know they won last night, but I couldn't even enjoy it.
Cause it's just one step forward.
Three steps, three steps,
three steps back again, like send a message and get rid of somebody,
send someone down, trade somebody, do something,
or just keep doing what you're doing and regressing as a team. Cause the like, whether we like it or not, like they're not improving the team,
the team's getting worse. The window's closing.
Like I understand we have some players for awhile,
but if they just keep doing what they're doing, like the window is closing,
if they don't improve the team if they don't change
anything the window is closing like it's not going to get it's not going to open
any more than it already has been and it's just extremely frustrating I'm just
so tired it's April and the team is dead like they needed a big change in the
offseason they refuse and this is where we are like they look miserable and it's
freaking what four or five series into the year like they look like they're
about to go into October and they're just like all right let's get to the
playoffs already but it's freaking April like they should be amped they should be
amped after how last season ended it's just a joke yeah and I appreciate the
phone call Travis and you know they're looking like it's the dog days of summer
right now and it doesn't look like there's any fun being had and look like any kind of energy is being zapped and
listen I know that if they can't handle increased pressure if they can't handle
not being able to do the fun little throw water on themselves after games
then they're not serious big leaguers.
I just, I don't know what to tell you.
You know what's fun?
Winning's fun.
And doing the little things and playing winning baseball.
And they just don't do it.
They just don't do it.
And even when they win, it still feels like a grind.
It still feels like a grind.
And tonight, it's just watching the Giants coming
here here and hit the ball all around the ballpark with like Tyler Fitzgerald
it's it's it makes you want to rip your hair out 215-592-94-94 is how you get in
on the other side we'll get to the player of the game the pitch count and
we'll play another game of what is he still doing here we'll get to the player the game the pitch count and we'll play another game of
What is he still doing here? We'll get that coming up next on the final out on sports radio 94 WIP
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Well, that was certainly a bright spot of tonight.
Welcome back.
It is the final out, Sports Radio 94, WIP.
Bryce is looking closer and closer to locked in at the plate.
I think we're on day nine of him telling Kevin Long that he needed 10 days to to make sure his swing felt right walk twice tonight
Had a single and had that home run there when he hit the home run
I was like, yeah kind of still feels like a win and then the next inning happened or two innings later and
It really really really felt like a lost two one five five nine two
Ninety four ninety four. It is the final out Jack Fritz hanging out with you here on this Wednesday night
If you're stuck a trap on the way home would love to talk to you
React to this one and react to a frustrating start to the season where they are 10 and 8
But again, like I don't need to see the the 95 1 pace. I don't need to see the 91 pace. Don't care
I really don't care. It doesn't doesn't matter because then they could lose two games and then they're on a 500 pace. So
It doesn't matter because then they could lose two games and then they're on a 500 pace. So
Like literally who cares the pitch count tonight is brought to you by the plumbers union local 690 protecting the health of the nation visit plumbers 690 org 99 pitches for Aaron Nola tonight and first inning was brutal. I mean I
Think he just totally lost his arm slot whether it was
Whether it was pitching in the cold whether it was the wind affecting things no idea. I think a
Sign of encouragement is that I think he did find it after that
You know once I eventually got home was able to finally sit down and watch
he
He got to the point in the middle of the game where?
everything was down
His is his knuckle curve was down fastballs were down change up down
When he needed to go up it was not in the middle of the strike zone
He did a good job of getting the cutters in on lefties
John who Lee?
Got his hands in on one and sparked it in the sixth
or sparked the you know the rally in that inning.
But I guess if we're looking for signs of encouragement with Aaron Nola
I think him in the middle of this game looking more like the Aaron Nola
that we're accustomed to seeing at least last year. Definitely don't need this to be the
the 2023 Aaron Nola. And as of right now
with his area over six, it could be trending that way
But I think if you were looking for a glass half full from Aaronola's performance tonight
Finding it in the middle of the game
I think is is certainly something that you can hopefully hopefully hang your hat on but he's also Aaronola. So
you never
you never really know what you're gonna get and then Aaron Ola start but it's
Usually gonna be him pitching into the sixth inning in some capacity
Let's go to Mark and Westchester. What's happening Mark? Hey
Well, you're talking the one angry Phillies fan. I know it's April and it's a long season. We got to face ourselves
but the type of ball
we played has just been abysmal from the mound to the hitting to the
fielding and and and what bothers me is that Aaron Noel was like and what
concerns me about him the most is he's lost velocity on this fastball. It's only like 89, 90. He needs absolutely
Perfect location to get guys out. Yeah, I mean it was like this is the beginning of last year. Okay
Uh, yeah, I mean listen, I I hear you he's not really been a big velocity pitcher
But yeah, 89 is definitely definitely different than 93. I hope that as the weather warms up then he will also
Warm up from a velocity standpoint.
And the other thing is I just wish they would get rid of,
that center fielder for the Phillies and Brandon Marsh.
I mean, it's just enough with those guys.
You know, I'd like to see Justin Crawford come up.
I don't know if he's quite ready,
but I hope they bring him up sometime in the summer.
Yeah, and I appreciate the phone call, Mark.
I mean, it would be an infusion of, I think,
some youthful energy that this team could use.
Because right now they just look zapped of energy,
which is pretty inexcusable for, again, April 16th,
especially when you're coming off of last year.
We'd like to see more internal fire,
but I don't see it happening.
I really don't see it happening.
And where I'm at with the offense is just,
instead of hoping they're gonna become guys
that they haven't really traditionally been,
I'm just in the mindset of, if you do it, great. I don't believe that you're gonna do it.
If you do it, I would love to be wrong. I want to parade down Broad Street more than anything in the world for the Phillies.
This team matters more to me than anything in sports. And I just don't see it.
I really, really, really don't see it.
And, you know, we're gonna play the game
of why is he still here?
Like, Johan Rojas is supposed to be
this great defensive player.
And I think he can track a fly ball
better than many of the centerfielders
I've seen in my entire life.
In a entire life.
I didn't see Gary Maddox.
So if you're dialing in angry, I didn't see Gary Maddox track a fly ball.
I did see Jane Victorino.
He was great.
You know, he won a couple of gold gloves out there and Roas can track a fly ball.
He can, he can run them down. Great at that.
But just the low IQ moments, I mean, obviously we had the Edmundo Sosa play
against the Braves last week and then whatever the hell that throw was
from the outfield to nobody, he threw it into the third base dugout.
It was egregious and allowed a run to score that didn't have to score and
I
still don't I know he had a knock tonight that looked good don't think he's a major league hitter and
It just seems like it's always these these these dumb mistakes and then you get to Brandon Marsh and he can't hit you know I mean he he's batting under a hundred
it's it's brutal and like again Justin Crawford's OPS in AAA is like 670
something so it's not he's lighting the world on fire now the same time Four games ago. He was hitting over 300. He's had a bad couple days
but they need something and
I know this is like really into the weeds and I apologize, but whatever like
Oscar mercado has played at the big league level. He's not great
He's I thought he showed some things in spring training.
Off to a pretty good start up at Lehigh Valley.
He's got big league experience.
They've liked him in the past.
He's been on the team a couple.
I would just bring him up and demote one of them,
demote both of them, don't know, don't care.
I just, they need something to shake this whole thing up.
If they don't think Crawford's ready, fine.
Maybe just see what Oscar Mercado brings.
I mean, this is where we're at on April 16th.
You see what Oscar Mercado brings.
Is that fun for anyone?
No, it's not fun for anyone.
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There wasn't like an unbelievable player for the Giants offensively tonight They kind of collectively had a good game. So I'm gonna give it to Lou Trevino, you know local kid. We'll give it to him
he shut down the game in the middle and in the middle of it gave the Giants a good two innings and
and you know, I think the five-four game at that point, so he's able to hold that lead and
You know just kind of stifle the Phillies offense and then let the Giants kind of explode late
But man, even the difference in the bullpen is frustrating. You know, they're bringing guys that are like
98 now the trivia was not but like Devaugh came in who was nasty a couple years ago. It's like 98
with like 10 inches of sink to it and
Wipe out slider and we're pitching Joe Ross and sometimes you're pitching Tanner Banks and we're pitching Jose Ruiz. I mean come on. 215592 94 94 is how you get in on the other side. We'll look ahead to
tomorrow and a positive development down in Clearwater tonight. All that's coming up next
on the Final Out on sports radio 94 WIBA.
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Welcome back. It is the final out sports radio 94
WIP
Jack Fritz hanging out with you here on this Wednesday night
Some good developments in the NL East. Oh man. I saw the when I saw the Mets losing extras today
Oh man, when I saw the Mets losing extras today, let out a mean, mean fist bump in the studio.
It was a big loss.
Big loss.
And the Braves have just been, it's been a, talk about a dumpster fire of a start.
Strider on the mound today, they lose to the Blue Jays, they're 5-13 on the year.
Tough start for both of those teams.
Or not both of those teams, the Braves.
And then Mets lose.
We're division watching here on April 16th.
277, 375 OBP.
383 slog, not great.
But 758 OPS from Oscar Mercado
as a Lehigh Valley Iron Pig.
Bring him up, bring him up, has to be better than this.
Don't care anymore, I'm just, I'm over it, I'm over it.
At least he's played big league baseball before.
Let's go to Jeremy in Downing Town,
what's happening Jeremy?
Hey Jack, thanks for taking my call.
I was at the game tonight and yeah, I just think with the failure
You were at the game now. Did you leave early? Did you leave early? No, I stayed the whole time. Oh, man
You are a hero. I don't know how you do it. Yeah, I paid good money for the tickets
You know, it's funny as the game goes along with it does
so yeah
But yeah, I just think with baseball and the Phillies, it's important not to panic necessarily.
I have major concerns too, but you know,
I think of it like football, right?
16 games are used to be, and baseball is 162,
so every 10 games is like one football game.
You start seven and two, the last nine games,
you're three and six.
So a bad stretch, but not the end of the world,
not the sky is falling.
With that said, the bullpen is a major concern concern I think we're not one arm short two or
three I mean Ruiz is useless Joe Ross clearly doesn't have it and and you're
bringing him in with bases loaded both of those guys that are Ruiz you know I
it almost felt like Rob Thompson was phoning it in and it was weird to see JT
starting at DH I don't remember doing that much last year at all.
Marshawn.
Probably because he's not really a DH.
That's the other issue.
Like his batch is not impactful enough.
But yeah, I mean, they're trying to get off his feet.
They're trying to get Marshawn in there.
But yeah, no, I hear you.
Yeah, he got to start both times with Nola, right?
I wonder why they don know, they don't
want him pitching to JT. I almost feel like that makes it tougher to pitch. He does a
good job framing pitches and not that that makes a huge difference in that first inning.
But you know, the whole game was like you said, nine walks is way too many. I don't
trust any of these bullpen arms and you just have to throw strikes. This is not a team
that has a ton of great hitters that hit for average
You know these guys you just need to throw strikes on Bailey Fitzgerald
You know they got multiple guys that are just throw a few strikes in there and you're getting them out
Oh Lamont Wade's hitting like 106
Yeah, seeing him walk a couple times
He's traditionally an unbelievable LBP guy. He's down here. He's hitting 106. I mean, come on
Yeah, I mean this team there's no stars
It's not a scary lineup and you can't even find the strike zone. It was infuriating to watch for sure
Yeah, I think when the weather warms up though the offense like I'm not really worried honestly
I don't think you need to do anything about real host or marsh every Every team has one player who can't really hit, maybe not the Dodgers,
but you know, you got defense in there. Hopefully, hopefully at least, I mean, Rojas made that
bad throw today, but Marsh did a good job catching some balls out there, obviously slipped
on the one. It wasn't, it wasn't great defensively either, but I don't, I don't think one hole
in your lineup is going to sink your team. There's bigger concerns on the pitching side and the offense I think will heat up as the
weather warms up. All right Jeremy, I appreciate it. And listen, I think that's a fair way to look
at it. I think, we all know there's a lot of season left and sure they could heat up, but it's just
when it looks exactly the same as how it ended last year. I don't know how you're supposed to react because I
Mean again unless they could I still I'm of the mindset that there needs to be a shakeup
There needs to be shake up of something by the way to I was wrong about Oscar Mercado stats
He's actually hitting 294 with the 7775 OPS after two hits today for Lehigh Valley, so we're
heating up.
He's even better than I thought.
Even better than I thought.
I appreciate the sentiment of not freaking out, and it's not that I'm... I'm almost
not even freaking out anymore. I'm furious and I'm annoyed and watching them on offense every single night drives me insane.
But it's not that I haven't seen this before.
So I don't know.
If you're in the mindset of long season, great.
More power to you.
It's just, it's hard for me to do.
And it's hard for a lot of people to do.
Now a good development down on the farm.
Four innings, seven strikeouts, one earned
for Ranger tonight in Clearwater.
I believe he's coming up, back up to Philly for,
I guess to get checked out and also throw a bullpen
before I think he's gonna go to one of the minor league stops,
whether that's Reading or Lehigh Valley,
and then we'll rejoin the Fills.
What is the state of the starting staff by that point?
Not totally sure.
Do they do a bullpen thing?
I don't know.
I mean, sure seems like they could use some bullpen,
but again, Rangers in a contract here,
so I don't think he's gonna be
Thrilled to go to the bullpen. I've thrown out the idea of piggybacking him in in Taiwan But also Taiwan's also be pitching at a high level or a semi high level in order for that to even be a realistic
Option and we will cross that bridge
Certainly when we get there tomorrow Jordan Hicks on the mound. No, not the former Eagles linebacker
versus Chris Sanchez they signed Jordan Hicks last year has I mean unbelievable stuff he's more
of a four inning pitcher than a true starter he got shelled his last time out seven earned
and he's someone that you got to get in the strike zone because he will he will walk you Chris
Sanchez looking for a bounce back performance after last weekend against the Cardinals
Another one of these Phil's pitchers that's been fighting it a little bit his velocity was also down his last start
So interested to see how he comes out a four
Ten start four ten either four or five or four ten obviously the afternoon show
I expect it frisk. We will get you ready for the game and then
Well, I will be reacting to it afterwards on the on the final out as hopefully they can salvage a split
against the San Francisco Giants and
you know just
Just get back on the on the winning track get back on the winning track
Maybe Oscar Mercado is the is the is the missing piece to it all.
No idea.
Either way, Francisco Rojas produced the program tonight.
On the other side, TK, Tom Kelly will take you
through the rest of the night.
On Enola getting shelled early day.
Oh, TK's gonna be fired up.
That's coming up next here on Sports Radio 94, WIBA.
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