High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Final Out: Zack Wheeler Sure Looks Like An All Star

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Jack Fritz and Tucker Bagley react to the Phillies' 4-1 win over the Reds on Tuesday night and discuss their feelings on Zack Wheeler not being named an All Star due to scheduling. The guys also break down a wacky 8th inning and discuss who would be the perfect fit for this bullpen that continues to struggle in big moments. Presented by Miller Lite.To purchase Ring The Bell by Jack Fritz and Kevin Reavy go to RingTheBellBook.com

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This is the High Hopes podcast. On the Odyssey app and Sports Radio 94 WIP. smiling through I feel a little less alone It's not the final out, you know, but it's close enough. So it's, it is the Iops podcast. I'm not doing the Seltreyo. I never do the Seltzer Y'L. But, of course, it is the IOPs podcast presented by Miller Light.

And since I'm off this week, I don't have to do the final out. But we still want to do some post-game shows because the Phil's are playing. There's stuff to talk about. And Seltzer is long gone in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, his sleep journey tonight, which means the one and only Tucker Bagley joins a program, our esteemed producer and superstar behind the scenes. Tucker, how are you doing, Bell? I'm excited because normally we have to wait for Murph and then we get to do the postgame show. I'm excited we get to cut that out. We'll be in bed 20 minutes earlier, which as I know,

the co-host of this podcast has to be super excited about the next time he goes to sleep. That's the number one role of this spot right here. Yeah, the most important part about the Iowa's podcast is going to bed. That is the most important. Like, who cares about the baseball team? Let's all make sure that we can go to bed. One person who did not go to bed tonight in a timely fashion was Walker Fritz, who I might have listened to the entire game on the radio until about the seventh

thing, but just driving the kid around. So, listen, it was a, it was for a pretty nice. nondescript July 7th game, Tucker. There was a lot of little things to talk about with this game. I will say it feels like the story of this one. We'll get to some of the nonsense late. Sure seems like Zach Wheeler's upset about not being on the All-Star team. And maybe a little annoyed at Don Maddenly over what happened last weekend against the Pirates.

What was your big takeaway from from Wheels tonight? I mean, it was just a classic Zach Wheel. performance. I mean, like, you and James choked about it this morning, like, oh, let's see, you know, how he'll look after he got taken out early last week and he didn't make the All-Star team, which they clarified a few times on the broadcast tonight that he initially wasn't picked for the All-Star team because he's going to pitch on Sunday leading into it. And they passed over him again today in favor of Hesosuzzo for the same reason, which I always think is a little ridiculous, like, just make him an All-Star and then move on to the next guy. Like, it's crazy

to just kind of not let that guy get that accolade. But, I mean, seven innings, 14 strikeout, zero walks, sixth pitcher in Philly's history to post a line like that. I mean, just an utterly dominant performance from start to finish. And after you saw what Christopher Sanchez went through yesterday, and really the whole team, it was good to kind of just give the bullpen arrest. You did have to use some high leverage guys. It did get sticky at the end.

But for seven innings, he was in complete control. Well, it was nice being able to hand the ball to Zach Wheeler. after a game where you lose 15 to 1 to the freaking royals. Just being able to be like, okay, let's calm this whole thing down. And I totally agree with you on the, like the All-Star thing. This should not be this complicated. And we know how important making All-Star games are for not only bonuses, future contracts, things like that.

But when we're trying to make a Zach Wheeler, Hall of Fame case. It's going to suck that we can't say 2026 as a Hall of Fame or as a as a part of that resume. He deserves to be an all-star. And you know how any All-Star teams he's made in this? Three. Three. Three.

And what are two of them with? Did he make one as a Met? I mean, no, 2021, 24 and 25. Yeah. So they've all been with the Phillies. He's turned into a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher with the Phillies. will he make it in as it stands right now? Probably not,

but he's starting to put together a pretty impressive resume. I just, Major League Baseball has done a lot of things right in the last couple of years. This is something that makes no sense. I don't understand how you can't make the guy an All-Star, say, hey, we know he can't pitch, but he still deserves to be here. Just because he happens to have to throw on the Sunday before the All-Star game,

that's the only reason why he's not an all-star. That seems ridiculous. Seems ridiculous, Tucker. Yeah, it's crazy that like, oh, sorry, you can't be an all-star because of a scheduling conflict. Like, it just makes no sense. And you mentioned, like, for someone like him, you know, it's always funny when all-stars come out and, you know, you have a few guys who maybe make it that shouldn't.

And, you know, maybe with the fan vote or whatever. And people say, well, you know, it's an all-star. It doesn't really matter. Like, well, it does. Like you said, for the main reason for Zach Wheeler, when he's, you know, He retires six years after that and people start to look at his baseball reference page and decide whether or not he's worthy of a Hall of Fame induction, they're going to look and say, like, well, he only made the All-Star team three times.

Like, that isn't that impressive. But it's four seasons where he was top 10 in Cy Young voting, three seasons when he was top five in Cy Young voting. And, you know, you look at what he did in the postseason in, you know, his three years pitching in the playoffs of the Phillies. I mean, it's just, it's utterly insane what he's done to not have the kind of accolated. that he deserves. I know.

I know. And I think we as fans of the team, and obviously we pull for Zach Wheeler because he's our guy. But it feels like we as fans have to do some of the heavy lifting here to almost slamming in people's faces, like how much you have to appreciate how good Zach Wheeler is and how he has morphed into Verlander and Scher. It's just he does not have.

the 20s that those guys had you know those guys had longer periods of time but like the way he's pitching right now is just the way that those guys pitch late into their careers and you know shers are somehow still going forlander still going forlander a sneaky trade deadline target just kidding um but but yeah i just to to him finishing runner up a couple times now and you'll be looking reference 10 years from now and it's going to be like well what happened everyone's going to sit there and say what happened in 2026 because he's probably going to end the year with an era under 2 5 you know i mean if it's if it's above 2 5 i think some things go wrong and you're going to say how was that guy not an all-star and by the way sucker he's probably going to finish top 5

and saw young again you know it's it's it's almost like you see it more with hitters you know and And maybe we just saw with Howard. You know, Ryan Howard did not make the All-Star team and then won the MVP. Harper did not make the All-Star team in 2021, and then he won the MVP. So I feel you see- Brown didn't make it the year he won MVP either. His last All-Star season was 2005. Who needs the All-Star game?

It's a bunch of hogwash anyway. But, man, it just, it really, it really irks me. It really irks me that once again, it feels like Wheels is getting fast over. But regardless, he was dominant tonight. And a game where you lose 15 to 1, there's a lot of chatter around the city of them limping into the all-star break. Kind of the Royal Series fell a little bit like that A-Series before the 24 All-Star break. Now, obviously, the A's team was disgusting. Well, not disgusting.

They had much more power prowess to them. Have you seen what the rules are up to tonight? Now, they, so at one point I know they got it back to not. 9. What's it at now? They're up 16 to 12 going into the ninth inning. That sounds like a game. Some fireworks over there in Queens.

Sounds like a game I probably would have took the under on. I mean, knowing my gambling track record. But, uh, yeah, no. So him just able to come out tonight and set the tone early,

clearly being peeved about the all-star game, clearly being peeved at, umbra, at Maddenly for the last game against the Pirates. and going and shoving and, you know, 14 strikeouts is, so the fact that that's only happened six times in franchise history feels off. Like, it's impressive, obviously, but it just feels like that's a pretty, I feel like I've just seen it before, but I guess when he gets to the 14 strikeout,

he did tie's career high tonight. I just assumed it was higher, but for the great Zach Wheeler performances, I mean, that was up there. That was up there. Do you know the other five who have done it? Did Bunning do it? Yes. Bunning did it?

Schilling. Yeah. Cliffley. Yes. Hamels? No. Damn. What?

I mean Carlton. No. Really? Robert? It's one guy who you would say, okay, I guess. And it's another guy who you'd be shocked to hear his name, but when you do, you go, okay, that make sense. Because it wouldn't be, like, Halliday feels too obvious, but I don't think Halliday did it.

No, it's, he pitched was shilling. Terry Mulholland? Tommy Green? Terry Mulholland. Wow. And then the most recent one you're missing. 14. Oh, Vince Velasquez. Vince Velasquez. Never a doubt. Dude, I,

and I know that we're sponsored by Miller Light. I love Miller Light. But this is my, this is college days. For some reason, I got, oddly into the 2016 Phillies. And because to be completely honest, you know,

during that time period, I was like playing baseball. I was like college. You kind of just like they were there, but it wasn't like I was locked in every night. So like the 14 Phillies, like when they got Agent Burnett, I was in one of my classes I was super hype. And and he was

a dud, obviously. 14, 15 Phillies, like very, very hit or miss. 16. Philly's pretty lock. I remember I picked up a case of PBR for that game. I've got that I had this old school recliner in our college

apartment, kicked the old feet up, skipped all my afternoon classes, and watched Vince Velasquez masterclass and in a just truly disgusting fashion did text my buddies and say hey, you know, Velasquez might be, reminds me a little

bit of like the Mets staff when they had Cindergarde and Dagram and and and all those guys. He was nasty the first like six weeks. I know, I know. He's still pitching, by the way.

I think he's in the Cubs organization now. Really? Yeah, he's hanging on by a threat, but Vinnie Velo is still out there. He has made two appearances for the Cubs this year. Yeah, yeah. Probably the same thing he always does. So other things that kind of stuck out tonight. Kirkring, almost Kirkringed it on up.

He tried his. He really tried. He tried. He tried his best. What did you think about that play at second base? First off, I've never seen a bench coach go out there and get tossed like Bobby Dickerson. The Empire must have said something about Bobby Dickerson's mom or like just something really off the wall that upset him that much. I've never seen like any assistant coach. Like outside of like if you're at first or third base coach already on the field, I've never seen an assistant coach come from the dugout onto the field with that kind of fire before. Oh, it's amazing. They never. And then Caleb Gotham, I don't even need the John Boy. I don't need the lip reading. I know exactly what he said. That was clear. He said BS over and over again.

He flipped in a bleeping BS. He was hot. And I don't, that play makes no sense to me from a baseball standpoint. I don't understand how it's okay. Now, if you're making a turn, I think that's. different. I don't think L.A. de Cruz is making a turn. I think he was running straight through the back, which is a huge

issue because you don't want the second baseman to just rear back and fire it right at someone running into the bag. You're basically playing a game of chicken. And I don't think that's a safe way to go about baseball. So,

I was surprised that they kept it that way. I mean, you seem like more of a rules guy than I do. But basically, baseball-wise, that seemed insane to me. It's just an awkward thing to see, right? Like, it's an awkward thing to see a guy run through second base like that. And I get what they said on the broadcast and the umpire said,

you can't technically challenge for abandonment, which like abandonment usually comes into play like he didn't touch on plate, you walk back to the dugout. They were really out. He didn't really do that. So we watched like after he ran through the back, he did turn around and go back. So it's kind of a gray area there. It wasn't really obstruction. I don't think you ever really made contact with Stott.

So it was just like an awkward looking play. And I don't think anyone else had ever really seen anything like that or really knew how to react or how to score it. And I agree with you. Like it seems sort of unsafe. And for a sport that's taken really all the violence out of the base paths in the last two decades, chances are if this happens again or, you know, becomes a trend, they probably, you know, outlaw it pretty quickly in the off season. although they probably have some other issues to work on this offseason before we get to weird base running rules. But I don't know.

I also wonder if that maybe messed up Kirkering a little bit too because he had to stand there on the mound for like 10 minutes trying to figure out if he was done or if he had to go back and pitch. And the other thing, the Phillies, I mean, they got the calls correct because they were challenged a bunch. But there were like five or six calls the last three innings where it seemed like they got a huge strike call and the Reds challenge and it was wrong.

It was a pretty rough day behind the plate. for the umpire. I was going to bring it up. I don't think I've seen an umpire challenge as much as Malachi Moore got challenged tonight. It felt like two an inning. It has to be bad for his confidence. Like after that like by like the fourth of his inning, he has to be second guessing himself. Like I did feel like you could hear his voice dying as the night went on early. He still had the cockiness. His strike calls got slower. He was doing a lot of dramatic pauses before big strike calls. Well, early in the game, he would get on the mic,

the Reds challenge in this call. And then by the 7th or 8th inning, it was like, the Reds are challenging. So in a way, I felt for Malachi more, but also we got to lock back in. We got to lock in back there. So, yeah, no, I could totally see it messing, Kirkering up, but it's also not like he had his best stuff before that.

No, he put himself in that situation. He did. And you would hope that there's a warm-up picture. is going on while that was going while the whole situation was was was was falling apart there I did appreciate uh was Alonzo Marquez basically just said yeah we'll let New York decide this one he he took all the responsibility of the game out of his hands and he's like what do they say it's such a great fail safe like yeah we'll just go to the league office and then you can't get mad at me anymore let's go to Sikakis let's go to Sikakis let's go to Sikakis and see what they got up there I'll see if they

can figure it out because we got nothing. But yeah, because what's interesting is that the Royals did that yesterday. And that was the first time, well, not the first time, but I feel like I hadn't seen it very often where you just keep running. But in that play, it was a

force play at second to get the third out in an inning. Right. Where you can like make the case of, and he made a direct turn. Elida and Cruz just ran right at Bryce and Stott.

And I think it was interesting, watching Bryce and Stott as the whole thing was going on, talking to Deli Cruz, he was like feeling his chest. Yeah, he started pumping his chest because he was, obviously you're scared. The guy's like 6'7. It's hard to miss him. I mean, he's huge. So that does not feel like a legal play. And I don't know.

Obviously, like you said, they have much bigger fish to fry. I think they can sit around talking about if you're allowed to run through second base this off season. If we get there, that's great. We'll get to the salary cap, but let's talk about the real issue facing baseball right now, and that is these guys just running face first in the second base. Like someone's going to get there. Someone's going to get the black guy. It's crazy.

Like, they're going to throw right at them. So, man, that was one of the weirdest things I've seen in the baseball field. But as always, every team feels like they're trying to find every single advantage they can and maybe this is the new market inefficiency is running headfirst in the second base.

All right, so a couple of things. By the way, John Bolin, a big, big spot getting out of it. You know, A. E. E. E. Hainio did hit a home run earlier in the game. He has not had the year that obviously he had last year for the deep backs and Mariners. Although he kind of fell of a cliff

when he went to the Mariners last year. Still, he's a power threat. He had a big hit. for Venezuela in the world baseball Classic, so he's a veteran, been around for a while. And, you know, Bolin, one of the things that has kind of worried me with him this year

is I do feel like in the big moments, he kind of shrinks a little bit. And I thought that was a big confidence boost for him. For him to go a three-two sweeper and have the conviction to throw it, I thought was really, really impressive. But

you know, you look at kirkering you look at bolan when when keller comes back who is the guy that you're going to and the seventh if you have a lead is it bolan or is it kirkering and it does feel like bolan is pitching his way into being that guy for this team because kirkering the really last month is just so when he's hot he's hot but there's been a good amount of cold streaks here for oryan and and and and Colin may have leaped him in the bullpen hierarchy. Yeah, I don't know if you feel this way, but like when Kirkering pitches well, it almost flies under the radar.

I know. I'll look at me like, oh, he is an ERA of one and a half this month. And then when he blows up, he really blows up. Like tonight he had three walks on, you know, only two thirds an inning. But yeah, I mean, I think the bullpen, as you get closer to the trade deadline, and we kind of talk about what this team needs, I think when you look at playoff baseball and, you know, if starters are going less innings and you only really have to run that you can count on in the ninth inning,

you know, really going after another high leverage reliever who you could put in the sixth, seventh, eighth, maybe, you know, probably from the left side because you have nobody right there, um, who you can trust it to get big outs, especially not Jose Alvarado right now. You know, that, that really is an underrated need, I think for, for the team as we talk about finding a fourth starter or maybe another outfield or bad. I mean, having a guy who can come in a big moment in the seventh inning and get somebody out from the left side. or even from the right side, right? Because, you know, Brad Killer's going to come back,

but Brad Killer wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire before he got hurt. I mean, you have a lot of guys out there in the bullpen right now who you might be able to trust, but, you know, come October, I don't really know if you trust anybody outside of Durham. Yeah, the name that just keeps jumping out, because if you add him to this bullpen, it goes to a super pen pretty quickly, is Chabman. It's exactly what they need.

If you add a Rolls-Shabbin, to this team. Really, if they could just make one trade with the Red Sox and get Sonny Gray, Wilson Contreras, and Errolous Chapman, they would win the World Series. Like, I feel pretty confident that if they, they might not win the World Series, but that would give you about as good a chance as you could possibly have. Now, that's not that realistic because those guys are going to cost a ton and it would really, really deplete your farm system.

but I could I could definitely see Dave if I know Dave Debrowski like I think I know Dave Dubrovsky the idea of going Chapman to Ron in in the eighth ninth has to entice him just has to he's he's everything they need they could bring him in the seventh that they want to in an Alvarado spot and then give Keller the eighth and it just it shortens the game and I know Chapman has done a lot of nights but it's not like he has has never done the seventh eighth inning thing before. And he's 37. He knows that a pitch of this level.

It will not be that big of a concern. He does have the mutual option after this year. Now, mutual options are a sham. I've never seen a mutual option picked up. So the last one was Aramis Ramirez in 2014, I believe. It was 2012 or 2014, but Aramis Ramirez. because I remember getting super into it with Paris and Dator, thinking that we're going to get the nice mutual option.

I was like, well, he has an option. And I'm like, well, it's a mutual option. What's that mean? Oh, it literally never gets picked up because there's never. At least one side isn't satisfied. Yeah, like there's never just a mutual coming together of like, ah, it's a good idea. I guess you're worth $10 million.

I guess I am. All right. All right. Great. Perfect. We don't need to negotiate at all. Actually, sounds like how I negotiate anything I do at work. like, yeah, this is fair.

I'll do it. Sure, I don't care. Aramis Ramirez, I was thinking about him yesterday. Underrated mid-2000s bat, Aramis Ramirez. Just raked for a good six to eight-year period. All over the NL Central, right? Pittsburgh, Chicago, Milwaukee. Dominated the NL Central.

Chicago, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, never ended up on the Cardinals. But yeah, he was a, he was a machine, the machine of the Midwest. as I'm sure they called him back in the day. All right. Some other things. It was good to see Schwerber just launch a baseball again. It was one of those ones, Tucker, where now, I feel like you're not a big golf guy, but I can see you being like a top golf guy.

No, I golf. Okay. It was one of those ones where it just looked like he teed it up and just smoked the driver. And we talked about this morning how he has not his. it on runs in June 28th, which you were nice enough to put in the chat. So it was his longest homerless streak of the season for him. Seven games. What a loser.

I think he went six before that game. So he only had one in the last two weeks. Yeah, he did go. The last one was six. But good to see him get off the Schneid and hit one out. And it was a bomb. Harper is certainly going through one of those little mini slumps that happened during a baseball season. but it was good to see Schwerber at least hit the ball at ballpark with authority and not

I do have a fear of his back and and that kind of creeping up and becoming an issue but at least for one night it did not look like an issue with Kyle Schwerber no and you know on the TV broadcast they kept breaking out like he doesn't swing 3-0 ever right like he he's almost an automatic take so I wonder if he also kind of felt that he hadn't been hitting with power recently. I mean, he had to know he hasn't had a home run in over a week. So it kind of felt like, you know, Abbott kind of laid a fastball in the upper

half of the zone and he was ready for it and just turned on it. I mean, it was out in a hurry. Yeah. Yeah. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. And then final thing here, not for nothing, but it needs to be pointed out is that Alex McFarland touched over 100 again tonight up in Reading and worked as scoreless inning as you're watching Orion Kirkering struggle to get through an inning and you know we're having questions about the bullpen if only if only there is someone who had premium stuff

that they they try to transition from a reliever into a starter and then he got Tommy john he's worked his way back from it and the velocity is back and he looks like a real late inning weapon if only one of those guys was just sitting in the money minor leagues waiting to get moved even to AAA, but nevertheless, why help the major league team when maybe he could... I mean, do you think he's like just trade bait at this point? Like, that's how they deal him? 100%.

It's the only thing that makes sense because there's no reason for him not to be at AAA. They're worried about him getting subjected to the AAA balls. So if he goes up to AAA and he gets hit around, then all of a sudden it's like, wow, like this is what we thought about, Alex McFarland, this entire. entire time. So, yes, I think that it is strictly keeping him in double A. Keeping his numbers inflated. Keeping the numbers as good as they can be with the minor league baseballs.

And we'll see what and that's the minute's right now. If he's here, I cannot wait to see post-trade deadline. If he's still here, how quickly he is in Lehigh Valley. like just how within a millisecond after after August 3rd trade deadline probably what four o'clock maybe six o'clock they might as well just have just tell like pack your bags because you're not going to be in writing any longer

after four o'clock yeah well last year is six o'clock which was incredibly annoying because it's leading into a Phillies game rather than just hey let's make it four o'clock so we can react to it a little bit let's talk a little bit about it let's think about the radio host out there one time, one time thing about the radio hosts. So, yes, the Ox McFarland thing is driving me crazy.

Yeah, it's 6pm again tonight. Of course, yes. That's smart. That's brilliant. Anyway, hopefully the Phillies don't play that day, but I'm not sure. It's not the end of the world. Well, Tucker,

it was a good, pretty odd in the end type win, but wheels is wheels, and Joandra Rahn is now 86 saves away from passing Jonathan Powell Bond for the Phillies All Time Saves Record. That's going to do it for us, Tucker. Do you have anything else you want to close that with or we'll talk to you tomorrow night? I'll talk to you tomorrow night. We'll talk to you tomorrow. We're going to do a postgame pod tomorrow, postgame pod Thursday. We'll see about

the full pod on Friday. Some conflicting rumors from behind the scenes as to whether or not we can record. If not, Saturday, Saturday we're on the radio 2 to 530 in the heart of the MLB draft. And speaking of that, I will be signing off from here and immediately doing some mock draft simulators as we get fully locked in for the 2026 MLB draft. So for Tucker Bagley and Jack Fretz, this has been another edition of the high host podcast. As the U.S.S. men's national team

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