High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - High Hopes Chapter 2: Evaluating the pitching staff after the Taijuan Walker signing

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

Don't have time to listen to the entire High Hopes pod? Check out this segment where Jack Fritz and James Seltzer discuss the state of the Phillies pitching staff after they signed Taijuan Walker and Matt Strohm to help their rotation and bullpen. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, Jack. So I guess my official position is that Tywon Walker is fine, but there's a part of me. He's better than fine. He's good. He's good. He's good. For me, he's a low-end three, high-end four.

I think it's a perfect way to put it. I think it's a perfect way to put it. He's better than Zach Eflin. My problem is I kind of think they missed an opportunity. The Rodon thing. Not even Rodon. I still think there could have been a trade out there for a better

starter, whether it's Bieber, whatnot. That's the weird part about this free agency. No trades. There hasn't been any big trades. Zero. Not a single big trade. Maybe they're... I don't know, will this even matter, but maybe they're waiting until after the holidays so people don't have to move during Christmas.

Does that matter at all? It seems like something a team, that would be like a really next level. Thoughtful, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I doubt it. But, you know, I just, so I think that you're heading into next year and it's, it's still Wheeler Nola, um, who are great, but I, I just, I have this fear in the back of my head.

Like he's got Nola pitch 230 some innings Wheeler pitch a ton. And then, you know, had to, he had like a dip in the playoffs where like they couldn't pitch him on like less than six days rest. Um, Ranger was great but like you know i love ranger and i think he's really good but it seems like every year it's like really good for like three weeks and then three weeks it's down and everyone's like oh get him back in the bullpen you know every year i mean it's gonna happen this year um where it's like he's he's obviously a number two starter and then he goes back to like not being great and then hopefully he gets on a run in the second half of the year and it's good but i think we're just we're putting ranger into a category that i'm not sure that he's ready for yet like i like i had a vision

of heading into this year with ranger as like my souped up superstar four you know what i mean um so like i just think they like they're still heading into a postseason um you know a series where you know they got their one two ranger i hope is good and then it's like time of walker should be good but is he is he a difference maker and I think he's more of a guy that gets you to the playoffs rather than through the playoffs. Yeah, I agree with that. I do think, though, Ranger has the upside to be a guy that gets you through the playoffs, as we've seen,

just because of his demeanor and the way he goes about his business. And look, I don't think this is necessarily the year, but depending on how they manage him, Andrew Painter is the kind of guy who theoretically could be a difference maker. Now he's young, and I think, as you've talked about, I think it's unfair to ask him to be that right now. But I do think that that potential is there,

and that's what you're hoping for. But I'm right there with you, man. Especially, and it's not just I, and it's the depth of the rotation too. I mean, you look at what the Mets have done, and annoying as it is, and it's the depth of the rotation too. I mean, you look at, you know, what the Mets have done and, you know, annoying as it is. And we talked about, look, I think Steve Cohen is great for baseball. It sucks.

He's made Middleton better, like we've talked about. And, you know, you see these owners, the freaking John Fisher. I mean, talk about the Sean Murphy trade. The embarrassing part of that is just another guy. The A's just are going to trade away and not pay like they never pay anybody. Like, so, but you look what the Mets are doing. I mean, they are literally like eight guys deep in that rotation, and there are rumors they might trade Carrasco away or whatever.

They have some maneuverability, but they got a bunch of guys. And yeah, they got some old guys, potential injury risk, this and that, but you look at it in terms of getting through the season from a starting pitcher perspective, they just got dudes that they can just kind of keep cycling in. That's something the Braves have been really good at the last few years with having guys in the high minors that they can kind of move up and move out.

Bad example of this, but even Sean Newcomb had a year where he was good. Those type of guys. It's just the first thing that popped in my mind of guys you can move up and down. I'm not talking about the guys who stay in the rotation. I'm just saying dudes. And the Phillies have not had that. It's not just the high-end part, which does worry

me. I agree with you. Because I do think, look, the five, if it's ultimately Painter, and I do think they're going to have to add someone else. I do think there's going to have to be a little more depth here. Well, I guess it comes down to what do you feel about Falter?

Well, Falter is the depth. And look, I guess it comes down to what do you feel about Falter? You know? Yeah, yeah. Well, Falter is the depth. And look, the point I was going to make is like, it is still a good rotation. You know, don't get me wrong. When you look at the rest of the rotations in baseball, like it's up there.

It probably goes into the season as a top 10 type of rotation. Like it's good. It's just to Jack's point. I mean, we just saw them lose the World Series because they went against you know a dude who no hit him and then you know Frambois Valdez being freaking nasty twice and like they just ran

into it and you saw what and then the best bullpen maybe we've ever seen you know you see what that could do and how that can win you a World Series and and as excited as I am at the ovens and I am I'm through through the you know over the, and I am, I'm through the, you know, over the moon. Like, I do still, I

think they still have to fill this out more like right now because right now I don't think they have the depth, you know, and again, look, they came two games away from the World Series. Like, I'm not saying they can't win the World Series. But we can't in terms of, you know, where they should be going in the season. They're a little light still. My thing is, like,

I can't use that World Series as a reference point for how it usually works. We talked a lot about this with the Eagles winning in 17. That's not a blueprint. They brought in a bunch of one-year guys and Nick Foles won the Super Bowl and got insanely hot. That's not something

you can replicate. They had a magical chemistry culture thing once in a generation, which, which, which, which, which is part of what the,

I think that's part of what it was. And like, and you said that right after the season, you're like, it's hard to replicate that. It is. It is a hard thing to replicate. So,

you know, I can't, I can't just use the whole, and I can't, I can't just keep saying, well, they got the game six, the world series.

So like, everything's fine. You know, like they're like, they had things game six of the World Series, so everything's fine. They had things that went their way as well. So I'm trying to plan against having to go on a streak of our lives again to get to the World Series. Things are going to be different going forward. Those magical runs just don't happen.

And my thing is, I think Andrew Painter is going to be insane. And I've got his Hall of Fame plaque already up and down like no pressure i can't wait to see what he does but i think that peak andrew painter is still two years away like i think like starting to really turn into like a star is still two or three years away um he's going to come up he's going to flash but there's gonna be some growing pains with him like i mean he's 20 is he even 20 i think he just turned 20 maybe he's like i think he just i think he's 19 he might be 19 still that's the way he's like super duper young man and um you know like jose fernandez came up and was unbelievable like and

just didn't stop being unbelievable um you obviously, unfortunately, they passed away. But I'm just trying to think of guys who came up that young as pitchers who were that good. And were just good. Like, Bumgarner came up and was really good. There aren't many. I mean, you see it with hitters sometimes, like the Bryces of the world and stuff.

Tatis was unbelievable from day one. Yeah, I mean, Trout was young when he came. I mean, there are guys who are just, you know, super. I'm just saying, like, usually pitchers come up and, like, they flash. Wander is another super young kid who came up and flashed and has been good. It's a great, yeah, it's really rare. I'm trying to think. There are definitely examples, and I'm sure there are people listening to this right now

who are like, how could you not think of this person or that? Like, Dwight Gooden was pretty young when he came up. I don't even know if he was that young, though. I mean, it's really rare. Walker Bueller's always been pretty good. Yeah, he's been great, but he wasn't even, like, 1920. Is he that young? Because 1920 is really young.

He was drafted out of Vanderbilt. Yeah, like, it's 1920 to come up and have success right away as a pitcher is, like, uber rare. It is. And hey, if Andrew Painter is the exception, can't wait. We'll take it. I'll take it. It's just a big ask.

And the last time that Dombrowski did this was Bonderman, and Bonderman wasn't anything that was great. No, he wasn't. So again, it's just a big ask and falter. I like some of the things we saw from last year. I think people are overreacting a little bit too much. To one playoff start? Yeah. Yeah, I think so, too.

Especially a game that he hadn't pitched in, what, like 15 days or whatever it was? And it's like, hey, kid, go out in the playoffs and do it. And then he got shelled to get through an inning. It's like, he's the worst pitcher I've ever seen. Get him off the team. Especially, I don't think the Phillies, and I don't blame them, but I think the Phillies immediately taking him off the World Series or not putting him on the World Series roster

didn't help people's perception of him. The whole thing was just like a disaster. We trusted him more than guys. We were like, oh, I trust him more than Nola at one point. Well, they don't make the playoffs. If Falter doesn't do what he did in the World Series. I mean, he was the stopper at one point, Bailey Falter. So, I'm excited to see what he does you know this year like he's fine um again like i just think they missed not like the the window

we've talked about it's a lot but like the window is now and and it's kind of you push all your chips in and if that costs you a mick able that costs you a m Abel, that costs you a Mick Abel. Like you, I, I have trusted the pitching development staff enough to where they can go out and they can keep finding, finding guys. So, um, so, but Tyler Walker on the surface,

like, yeah, I'm, I'm happy. You know, I've liked him a lot. You know, I,

I, I drafted him in 2013. Oh buddy. I've owned it many a times in his diamond back days. Oh, Seattle, the year of the blue Jays were in a two something era um so you know he's and he throws hard man he brings it sort of i mean like he's like 99 95 not anymore not anymore no he's like he's like 93 to 96 and most of the starts that i watched and I have watched a couple starts since they signed him I could have sworn I saw him hitting 99 last year

at the Mets I don't think so you're much better at this speed than I am the thing that I'm really excited about and the thing is is that if he gave me a choice of Tyone or Tywon Walker

I would have rather had Tywon Walker. Like, I just, he probably isn't as durable as Tyone, which is weird to say. But I just like the stuff more. You know, I like the stuff from Tywon Walker more. Still has a good, you know, high spin four seamer that, you know, it's not as powerful as it used to be, but still does it. But I I, I genuinely, I can't wait for the splitter, man. Like I, I'm a sucker for a good splitter. Um, and Taiwan Walker splitter is awesome. So, um, I look forward to now Kyle Schwab, we're not having

to hit home runs off of him. You know, that should, that should bring his ERA down by a little bit.