High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - High Hopes Chapter 2: When Is The Wheeler Deal Getting Done?

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz discuss the impending Zack Wheeler contract extension and if it could get done during Spring Training. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball Isn't Boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is.

Another fact, so jump aboard the B.I.B. Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Boris definitely asked for an extension. And Dabrowski definitely shot him down. And they were like, no way. I mean, he was very, he's like, here's what I'll say.

Happy Bryce here for the next eight years. I go, all right, thanks, Dave. Yeah, that was very interesting. So, oh, and I didn't realize the rule until I believe Gelb wrote about it. So they're going to sign Wheeler, but it's not – they can't – they can do it before – it wouldn't be smart to do it before spring training. How come? Because spring training, if you sign them then,

then it doesn't affect this year's luxury tax. Really? That's the – So they might have a wheeler deal waiting to go exactly but why would you do it right now i didn't know that was it i didn't of course it's a no-brainer of course yeah i'll find the exact uh wording or whatever the exact wording that he did but yeah like so that's why it makes sense like because you keep waiting for it um yeah so this is what Galbro. The Phillies are still expected to engage Zach Wheeler on a potential contract extension this spring. By waiting until the spring, a potential new contract would not have luxury tax ramifications in 2024.

There are other extension candidates, two of whom agreed Thursday on salaries to avoid arbitration. So, yeah, if you can wait two weeks. It's like a no-brainer, why wouldn't you? It's an absolute no-brainer. And I guess it's, because I guess the reason is it doesn't affect, because he's not making more money this year. Is that why they put that in there?

Because it doesn't affect this year's salary? I would assume so, yeah. If you do it before then, then it would affect this year's salary? Again, this is the first I'm hearing of this. Because what didn't make sense to me was that you can sign players in spring training and it affects this year's luxury tax. Strange.

Especially if it's an extension because you would think the new money isn't coming until the future. Right. Strange. I don't get it. Interesting. But hey, whatever.

Whatever. Sign Zach Wheeler. Now it makes sense. What do you expect year-wise for Wheeler? Four was thinking for i mean obviously ideally you're hoping for three but that probably won't happen i think he's probably shooting for five you meet in the middle yeah i don't think like 4-1-30 4-1-40 something i would be not very fun i agree um 4-1-30 4-1-20 okay feel about right sure I mean 30

I think he gets to 30 no matter what oh I think he gets that's my question does he get higher than 30 yeah exactly but yeah I think 30 is possible

and the good part about Wheeler and we've talked about this I think in in years past on this podcast like he just has that fastball that

it's weird how some pitchers arms work where like there's just there's just life that it's weird how some pitchers' arms work where like Scherzer can pitch. There's just life on it. Scherzer can pitch when he's 39, and now he's breaking down, but still. But Verlander, I mean, we see these guys. For power guys. The old agile, these guys can change speeds.

They can last, whatever. You're right. It's been fascinating seeing some of these power. I mean, then look. Then there's Nolan Ryan back in the day. Pitcher was 46. Some of these guys just have that type of arm where they can just throw fastballs forever. Yep.

And the way that his fast, like even last year, I'd be like freaking out because he'd be at 95 in the fourth. And it just doesn't really matter. He's got one of the best fastballs in the sport. He's got life on it, yeah. And what was encouraging is that in the postseason, he was still about 95, 96. He wasn't back. He ramped up in the postseason.

And he put together another all-time run. He's been an unbelievable postseason pitcher for the Phillies so far. He's one of the best of my lifetime. As a Philly, the best. It hasn't been 100. Him and Schilling. And Cole for one year. And Doc.

And Doc. Yeah, and Doc. We've had some good ones. We've had some good ones. And Cliff Lee. Yeah. Cliff, though, ruined it the next year. But yes, or two years.

But still. Two years. Yeah. And Doc. Doc was pretty good. Yeah, believe it or not. Believe it or not. He's all right.

But yeah. Wheeler's going to pitch in more post-seasons, though. That's the thing. Wheeler's got a chance to really put a resume together from pussy for sure and he stepped up a big moment so um yeah it's just he has one of those fastballs where i just don't worry about it anymore and it is so funny that we're sitting here talking about it signed him to it with 34 i believe he is right 34 like there's a guy who when the philly signed him they got him for such a discount because people thought he was just like he couldn't last like his first what three four years of his career

were a disaster from an injury perspective and he's come here and just been the the bastion of health it's fascinating the funniest part about the wheeler thing and because today is also the five-year anniversary of the jt trade oh is that that show that was fun it was fun it was remember they made moves that That was great. Um, trades like trades. Where are the trades? Where are the trades? Man,

four six though, man, just has not ever put it together. And when he did come up for that moment, sick, like it was electric watching that guy electric. Yeah. Um,

so, so it's funny that it feels like Klintzak and Ed Wade both have the same trajectory. Klintzak got pretty much all of these guys. Yeah, I think Wade more so because Wade really did draft those guys and whatever. Do you want me to get technical on you? Sure.

Mike Arbuckle. Mike Arbuckle drafted. I agree with you. Mike Arbuckle, you're absolutely right. Mike Arbuckle did. But Ed Wade's tenure was better than Matt Klintak's, I think. But you're right. Look, Klintak kind of put this team together.

Klintak had no idea how to build a team. But when it came to signings and- I mean, like the Harper contract and the Wheeler contract are both like- The JT trade. The JT trade. But really just, you were talking contracts. I mean, the Wheeler contract is the best contract in my life in philly sports i think it's arguably i'm forgetting like you know rookie contracts i'm talking like i think it's the best in my lifetime and i think it's arguably

one of the best baseball contracts of my lifetime five for a hundred for what they got from that guy i mean it's pretty ridiculous it's absurd or 5120 whatever it was it's like it's pretty ridiculous. It's absurd. Or 5-1-20, whatever it was. It's like, it's crazy. He's been a $40 million pitcher and it's like half the price. But yeah, I mean, Klintzak, you know, last year, obviously, Segura was on the team. He traded for Gene Segura. I mean, Harper signed the JT trade, you know. Wheeler. I mean, it was an obvious pick at the time, but Boehm was an obvious pick at the time, but boom was a draft pick by him.

Stop a draft pick by him. I mean, you know, and thought at 14, it looks like a really good pick there. Yeah. You know, we go back to King.

King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King.

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King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King. King Yeah, it's just funny looking back. And Gillick is so like Dombrowski, except Dombrowski hasn't gotten it done yet.

Yeah, but you're right. Comes in with a very similar resume, coming in, all that. Find the right pieces to put together. Now, Dombrowski isn't found as worth yet. That's true. Where's the worth? Where's the worth? Marsh, sort of.

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signing whatever, is actually the first move he made. The Alvarado. Yeah, I think that the Clevenger for Alvarado is the single best give to get that Dombrowski's done since he's been here. Yep. Which is wild because that was the first movie made. It's funny.

The biggest thing that Dombrowski's done is just rounded out the edge of the roster. And the biggest thing he's done, and it's what we talked about at the beginning, what we hoped for, and what has been proven true, is creating a winning organization. With Dombrowski, the stuff that, like on the field he's been fine, off the field for and what has been proven true is, is creating winning organization with the route, the stuff that like on the field, he's been fine off

the field. Dombrowski has been a rock star here. You know, the way he's built this organization up, the way they've taught them how to win the ways, uh, built the infrastructure in the, uh, our guys, you know, Brian and, and Preston and bringing out all these people in the drafting development, focusing on that, all that stuff and just bringing a winning culture to fill. I mean, it's been unbelievable with Nebraska. And value in the clubhouse, which I think that's one thing

that the more analytically driven organizations. That's going from Girardi to Thompson. Yeah. You know? That was probably Klintak's biggest downfall. Yeah. Is it just did not care about it. Yeah, and Girardi.

I mean, that was a mistake. Yeah, for sure. So, you you know a little appreciation I guess for for Matt Glintock but still um yeah wasn't expecting that well it's just it's just funny to think about no it is five years ago the the JT trade from extending Wheeler like did did good things here you did you're right yeah and it was funny enough because I was uh like a normal person I was re-watching the 2019 Phillies video yearbook. Oh, total normal.

Normal move. 80-win baseball team. Even McCutcheon was playing well until I tore his ankle. Ah, him tore it. That was that underrated forget-about crappy moment that submarine to season. No, we don't forget about it because we work at WIP, so impossible to forget about that moment. Correct. Led to one of the all-time moments in at WIP. So impossible to forget about that moment. Correct.

To one of the all time moments in the history of the station. Yeah, it was awesome. But yeah, like even the, even the question signing was the right, I mean, they had a game,

they got a lead off hitter that wasn't, that was good until it got hurt. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And you never doubt the biggest. By the end, he was the worst,

but for a moment there, he did some good things he did he did all right what else from nebrowski i thought it was interesting again he's so honest there's so many little nuggets like him mentioned like schwerber is not playing the outfield at any point i mean he was that was strong he was like yeah schwerber's knees ain't hanging out there like we can't do this just you know no i think that's why he's gotten off to some slow slower yeah i mean he was talking about how much trouble he's having running yeah well i mean i think i think it's i think he's had injuries the last couple years that never became public you could tell that that kind of hurt him from that standpoint listen if a

whole year at dh could get it can i grow could we get like a schwab schwab bomb season baby can i get 230 i mean imagine be at 230 oh. Everyone would just calm down for 30 seconds. I know. Didn't answer the leadoff hitter question. Kind of was interesting, though, because he said they were like, Dave, do you have a – And he's like, I do. He's like, I would pick someone, but I'm –

That was fascinating. I do wonder if they try Stott there for at least the beginning again and see how it would go. And why Stott over Turner? Because I think Turner provides value in the two-hole. And I think Stott has a more traditional leadoff hitter kind of mold. I mean, Harper has to bat third.

None of this is Harper batting fourth. I'd rather bat first than third. I don't want him batting first, but I'm saying Harper has to hit in the first inning, in my opinion, every day. No matter what. We've talked about this. I think the lefty-righty thing is incredibly overrated. To your point that you've made many times,

I do think it matters late in innings to not have too many lefties in a row. But I think Rob Thompson goes a little overboard with the righty-lefty thing. But look, if he wants to do it, which he does, you know, Turner Harper makes a lot of sense at the top of the lineup. And the only problem with Turner at leadoff is who bets to. Well, you have to Harper. That's the point. And I don't want that. I agree.

I'm just saying. But again, or you don't have to go righty-lefty, but whatever. You know, whatever. Well, who would you put to then if you want righty-righty? I would bet Schwarber leadoff. No, I know. Yeah. I would go Schwarber, Turner, Harper as my top three.

Yeah. That's what I would do personally. But if not, I would rather go Stott, Turner, Harper. I wouldn't put Turner one. I'm just throwing it out there because you mentioned it. So would I mention it? Yeah. Well, because I, again, I think Stott will eventually be a leadoff hitter here.

And I think he's going to be good at it. I kind of, I do want to see it. I mean, I know that, listen, I am a Schwarber leadoff defender forever. You know, I understand the value that he provides. And again, how he wants to do it very clearly. Correct. Which matters. Again, that was, I think that we had Jim Salisbury on last week.

Great to hear, Jim. Love you, Jim. Love Jim. But he was talking about, you know, he's like one of the things that Rob Thompson is best at is knowing what his players need from him and kind of understanding the mind of the player and the psyche of the player. And he's like, Kyle Schwarber likes batting leadoff, man. He thinks he loves starting the game off.

He loves to put one in the seats. He loves the roar of the crowd. It's like gets him going. It is something that Kyle Schwarber is a better player at leadoff because he wants to do it and he's excited to do it and all that. And that is the kind of thing where you have to, it's not the only reason to put him there but it is the kind of stuff that we don't know on the outside that does need to be taken into account of course

so listen if he's there game one i'll be i'll be happy with it um it's just yeah i think eventually stop will do it and you know curious to see how it does i agree and look i i think he'd be great at it i just he just needs to walk a little bit more. Seriously, to get there. I mean, because he has such amazing plate recognition, the ability to put the bat on the ball as well as anyone, maybe outside of Luis Arias that we've seen right now. But he does need to take a few more walks. If you want to be a classic prototypical leadoff hitter,

there are spots where maybe a few more walks. The answer on Panter was not surprising. What's going on with everyone online being like, what? No. It's like, dude, we all knew this. They said it immediately. They're like, 2025, guys. You never know.

I was very surprised by the reaction to that answer. And I don't know why. I don't either. That was very clear. I saw prominent people tweeting out like, what? I know. Yeah, but it's things about Painter, obviously. Yeah.

We're ready for that guy. Yeah. The funny part is he's only 22 when he... I know. I know. Well, he was 19. Exactly. It's a breeze.

Again, I don't think people understand 22-year-olds reaching majors, that's still young. That's still super young to reach the majors so yeah it's not and look it's the kind of thing where you know as weird as is these days with these pitchers you almost expect them to have to get Tommy John at some point it's almost like a you know I don't want to say a rite of passage but almost uh just a necessary evil with the with the amount of with how high velocity has gotten with the torque on these arms. Like, arms are not supposed to do this. You know,

it's almost kind of the point where, you know, you're almost surprised if someone doesn't get Tommy John, you know, in the first five, six years of their career.

Yeah, which stinks? It stinks, of course, but it's like, get it now. I'm fine with it. You know, like, you know. Just have to hope it's a stronger,

stronger elbow moving forward. Yeah. Hopefully. Look, Shohei, you know, he's got it again. You know, it's tough yeah it stinks not for us do the dodgers dodger are they if they don't do it this year it'll be the it'll be at all time all time all time it surpasses the last year's bets i mean like they

oh yeah i mean even though it's funny which it makes the last year's mess thing that much funnier is that how much more money last year's meth spent than what the dodgers spent this year because that's crazy i mean the last year's mats i mean that much funnier is that how much more money last year's Mets spent than what the Dodgers spent this year because that's crazy. I mean, the last year's Mets, I mean, they've spent $500 million or something.

Which is ridiculous. Ridiculous. But, yeah, it's like the Dodgers didn't just go out and get Joey. They went out

and got Yamamoto. They went out and got Glass now. They went out, like, I mean, they've just gone, like,

they went and got Teoscar. It's almost, especially in an offseason where that's the thing. Like, we're sitting here being like,

oh, the Phillies didn't do anything. It's been so quiet. No one's done anything where that's the thing. Like, we're sitting here being like, oh, the Phillies didn't do anything. It's been so quiet. No one's done anything. No one did anything. Like, there are a lot of teams that have done one move. The Yankees haven't got Soto. They haven't done anything else.

Like, all these teams, like, so just the Dodgers? It's just the Dodgers have gone out and done everything. And if they don't do it, I mean, holy cow. It'll be about as big an embarrassment. But again, that's the thing. Like, if there's a sport other than hockey where you're not guaranteed to do it, it's just cause you got talent.

It's baseball. Yeah. You know, like the Braves have been better than the Phillies last two years. Guess what? It also plays them well two years in a row. Yeah. So it's just what it is.

So man, one week away, one week away. Let's go. Yeah. One of these finally did it. We finally made it. We finally made it. Yeah. Now we are the All-Star. We finally made it.

Yeah. Now we are getting very excited for pitchers and catchers. Yeah. Still a ways away from actual baseball games being played, but we're on the way. End of February. We're getting there. When March hits. We're getting there.

It's baseball month.