High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - High Hopes Phillies Podcast: The Phillies are going to make us adjust how we watch baseball with Joe Giglio

Episode Date: March 21, 2018

This week, Jack Fritz is joined by Joe Giglio to talk about how watching the Phillies this season is going to force us to adjust how we watch baseball. Their use of players will be different, their thoughts on the rotation and this bullpen is all going to change how we watch baseball. The guys also talk breakout candidates and more! See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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so they can give you the advice and resources you need to make your day-to-day easier. So if you're ready to meet your small business match, we're ready for you. Visit td.com slash small business match to book an appointment with one of our advisors. Let's talk some baseball. Welcome to the High Hopes Podcast. I'm your host, Jack Fritz. Today, we are joined by the fine Joe Giglio on this great snow day here. I really get too excited for opening day, this beautiful snowstorm here in Philadelphia. Joe, how's it going? We are a week away, pretty much, from opening day. This is great baseball weather,

Jack. You picked a great day to do the High Hope Spot here. It is snowing, but you know what? The Phillies are playing as we talk right now, and everyone's hitting home runs, so I'm excited for baseball. Yeah, everyone's worried about the young lineup, whether they're going to go through any regression this season, they're going to slow down at all, they're going to hit any kind of wall. It's clearly not

going to happen. Yeah, they're scoring 900 runs this year. I mean, the Yankees who? This is the murderer's row 2.0 down here in Philadelphia. You can follow Joe at JoeGilioSports and you have a show here on the station sometimes? That's what I'm told. They let the

key card work, so I'm allowed in the building. And yeah, doing the evening show with you Jack, in case you didn't know. That's my job? You produce the show. Oh, okay. Cool. I thought I'm allowed in the building. And, yeah, doing the evening show with you, Jack, in case you didn't know. That's my job? You produce the show. Oh, okay. Cool. I thought I was a co-host.

And when you're driving down to the ballpark this year and you're trying to get some information on the game, it's a 7 o'clock first pitch, you'll likely hear Joe because you're hearing that all. Honestly, they used to say Harry Kalas had the voice of summer. I think it's turning to Joe Giglio. You know what? I'll take that.

I don't know if it's true, but I will take it. And now I'm excited for it. We're going to do the pre and post every night. So I'm excited for that because you know why? The Phillies are actually going to be relevant for the first time in a long time. I don't think I'm going to plug your podcast because it's not, Nick, there's only really one Phillies podcast and that's the Ohio podcast. And I don't want to, I didn't bring you on to promote another podcast.

You bring on other Phillies podcasters that don't even work here. You're promoting their podcast, but not the great Phillies 24-7 network that is somewhere out there in the radio universe. Yes. I don't know. Anyway, his podcast is Phillies 24-7. If you feel like listening, but I don't think you really need to listen. Also, wait a second. Your other co-host on High Hopes, James Seltzer, does daily podcasts on the Phillies 24-7 network.

I never said I supported him. Synergy, Jack. Synergy's important. Yeah, see, I'm a big me guy. There may be no I in team, but there is an M-E. So, are we sure Scott Kingery's not Pedroia with more talent? Because he has his fourth homer of the spring today. He has the look, according to Gabe Kapler. Scott Kingery is clearly here and ready to roll.

I mean, are we sure he's not Dustin Pedroia with more talent? I'm not sure. Look, Dustin Pedroia is a great player. I guess he's still really good, but he was a great player at one point. He won an MVP, even though it might have been a weird year to win an MVP. Whatever. He's great, and he was great for the Red Sox, probably a borderline Hall of Famer, Jack.

I never thought Dustin Pedroia had overwhelming physical talent. You watch Kingery, he's really talented. And I don't know if he's going to be as good as Pedroia. Maybe he's better, but I don't think the comp that came out last week is that crazy. He might be more talented. I don't think it's a hot take at all. I think he'll steal more bases.

I think he has more pop in his bat, given the changes he made to his launch angle. He loves launch angle. Instead of Scotty Jetpacks, it should be Scotty Launch Angle, because he is all about it. Defensively, he's an absolute wizard. He can play almost anywhere, according to the manager.

I know he won't be here opening day, but if he goes into the manager's office and says, give me 26, do you put him on the opening day roster? It's hard to argue with that, the way you phrased that. Yeah. Gabe might say maybe, and then he's going to go to Matt Klintec, and Klintec's going to be like, there's no way we're doing this.

But if he comes in demanding 26, the number 26, and he thinks he's better than Utley, I might have to put him on the opening day roster. Imagine if that story came out. It'd be so funny. He'd be half loved in this town and half hated. Like, how dare he say that? You know what I think would happen?

I think Utley would request his release. He would come back, and he would take second base back and say, Scott, you're done. Just to show this kid who's the boss around here? Yeah. You know, he's hitting 390 as we do this podcast in spring trainings. 390. I see that staying that way the whole year i don't yeah he's a 400 hitter i think i think that's fair i definitely think that's fair um but yeah scott kingery i don't

know what they're gonna do with them because i think he's the i think he's the future at second base and i appreciate what cesar hernandez has done but I think in the long term, if we're looking at the ceiling of this team, having Kingery at second, Crawford at short, and Machado at third, with Hoskins, Herrera, Altair, and right field, I think that's a higher upside than Cesar, Crawford, Kingery at third. And then, you know, maybe they get Harper, maybe not. It's just that I think that's more, I think that's a better long-term plan than keeping Cesar around, even though he's great, but not trading Cesar in a deal to get an arm at the deadline.

I agree. I think the question now is, like, what are they looking for for Hernandez? And are teams going to use the leverage of Kingrey coming up and the fact that everyone out there knows? Sure they should. And everyone out there knows they're going to go after Machado against the Phillies. Like, you have no place for Cesar Hernandez. You know, as the year goes on, you have to trade him to get King Green

everyday spot. That could actually hurt them, but teams are going to like Cesar Hernandez. He's going to – something's coming back here for him with probably something else, but he's coming up before Hernandez is getting traded. They're not trading Cesar in April. No. They're not trading him in May. This is probably a June or July thing.

So this kid's going to come up, and Gabe Kapler like three times this spring. Jack has mentioned Chris Taylor from the Dodgers last year. I love Chris Taylor. Obviously, Gabe was with the Dodgers player development, and they used him everywhere last year. I think that's what Kingery's coming up to do whenever that date is. Yeah, and I think the same thing is going to happen with the outfielders. Everyone's worried about, you know, is Nick Williams going to get enough at bats?

Is Aaron Altair going to get enough at bats? What are they going to do with Hoskins? Is he going to be in left field? I think Gabe, given the background he has in L.A., is going to find plenty of playing time for these guys. Because they're all about, you know, load management. You know, pitchers, they probably won't have many starters going to face a lineup for the third time around.

That's just not the way the Dodgers roll. And I don't think the Phillies are going to roll that way. I think they're going to spread these guys around. Kingery could play the outfield a little bit. Kike Hernandez on the Dodgers. Chris Taylor on the Dodgers. It's going to be the same kind of thing. I'm not worried at all about them finding at-bats for everyone.

I think they have a plan. I think they do, too. I think this is the new way of baseball now. The Orioles have done this for years. The Dodgers. We have to adjust how we watch baseball. I think we do, and we're going to soon have to adjust what's a good player because players aren't going to get 600 at-bats.

Starters aren't going to get 33, 35 starts. If you pitch 150 innings, they're really good, or you get 450, 500 plate appearances, they're really good. That's really good now. The Dodgers do it. The Orioles do it. The Astros do it to an extent. That's just the way the Yankees have done it the last couple years.

So I think Gabe's perfect for this because he's been in an organization that knows how to do it. And I think the communication is the key. You have to tell the players maybe a couple days in advance, like you're not going to play this day, so you could just kind of get your work in around it. Or make sure they know so you don't blindside a guy and be like, no like you're not going to play this day, so you could just kind of get your work in around it. Or make sure they know so you don't blindside a guy and be like, no, you're not playing today, like probably Pete McCann would have done

when he was here. Yeah, Pete's getting ripped by some members of the team. You know, people are seeing the light. I hated Pete McCann as the Phillies manager. He was not good at what he did. And everyone talked about how he was a good communicator because he could speak Spanish. He didn't actually talk to the players.

I don't care what language you speak. If you don't communicate, it doesn't matter. The players had to come to him at one point. Remember that whole thing with Franco last year? It's awful. Pete McKinnon was garbage. And the only reason he ever got defended in this town was because he's a nice guy. And he was here through the losing record.

But batting Freddie Galvis in the two hole is just a creatures. It is badly absurd. So I'm so glad that Pete McKenna is over. And speaking of the new way of watching baseball, we're going to have to get used to either Hoskins or Santana batting in our two hole with probably Herrera in our three hole. It's going to be, it's going to be adjustment in that way because Reese Hoskins is not your

typical two hole hitter and Carlos Santana isn't really either, but in the modern day of baseball, Carlos Santana is probably the most consistent offensive player in the sport right now. Yeah, all he does is get on base every year. He doesn't strike out that much. And other teams are doing this too. The Yankees are probably going to bat Aaron Judge, who hit a million home runs last

year and won the MVP, or second MVP. They're probably going to bat him second. So this is what teams are doing now. And Kapler's been pretty consistent about this. If you look at the lineups every day in spring, it's one of those two batting second almost every game. But I think it is going to take some people aback when they start watching the season like, wait a second,

why are these guys batting three and four? Because that's what you usually do with your sluggers, but this is the best way they think to score more runs. And that's why I think we're making a little bit too much out of the rotation because we're looking at it from a traditional sense. Who is going to be the fifth starter that can hopefully break? All they need these guys to go

is five innings. Get through the five innings, get through the first two times through the lineup, and then go from there. Because I think a guy like Lively has shown that he can do some things for the first two times through the lineup, and I think the third time, the average jumps to like 350. Get him out.

It's bad. But that's why bringing in a guy like Arrieta was so important to where it's Nola. And then you had no idea who was coming after him. And when you have a guy like Velasquez, who has never been able to throw more than five innings, Pavetta has never been able to throw more than five innings, Lively, you just don't want doing it. Like Eflin, able to throw more than five innings. Lively, you just don't want doing it. Like, Eflin, all these guys are fine breakout possible candidates, but in a day and age where we are with the Phillies,

all they need to go is five innings and then turn over to the bullpen, and the bullpen on paper looks pretty good, although today they cut Fernando Abad, which is, I mean, it's a tough loss. Well, I keep saying they're going to have a winning record for the first time since 2011. Now I'm wavering on that. Right. Without Abad, I don't know if they could do it.

Is Klontak a fraud? He cut Fernando Abad. You're right about the pitching staff, and I think we have to stop looking at it the way we used to. And the other part about the Arrieta thing you mentioned, why it was so important to bring him in, if you're going to do that, and most teams do it now, it is nice to have two guys atop the rotation

that you can count on for some innings so you don't have to worry when you take the other starters out early. You're going to blow the bullpen out completely by the end of May. Look at the Astros. They have Dallas Keuchel. They have Verlander. They even have now Garrett Cole. They have three guys who they could go deep into games.

So they could be really, really liberal with like, all right, this pitcher in the fourth spot in our rotation, he stunk through three innings. He's gone and not even worry about it. The Phillies can do that. If Arrieta's good, and Nola's good, I think you're going to see Gabe Kapper in the fourth inning like, hey Vince, give me the baseball. Pavetta, the same thing, and he's going to go to the bullpen. It won't

kill them because those other guys, they could pitch innings. Who is going to be our Chad Green? Because when you're talking about that scenario, it was always oh, we'll just go get Chad Green, he'll shut him down from the fourth to the seventh, and hopefully our offense can make a run. You saw the same thing with Archie Bradley, with the Diamondbacks, Andrew Miller.

He's the revolutionary. It all started with Andrew Miller. Who do you think has the best chance to beat our Andrew Miller? That's a good question. I think that two guys in the rotation could right now, maybe one day. Velasquez could do it. I think Pavetta would be great at it. I think Pavetta would be the rotation could right now, maybe one day. Velasquez could do it. I think Pavetta would be great at it. I think Pavetta would be unbelievable. But

they're at the spot now where they don't have better options than the rotation, so they're going to keep trying them as starting pitchers. If it's not those guys, I like a Dubre Ramos. I think he could be really good for them. I know Kapler talks about Luis Garcia a lot, and they have Neris, obviously. Adam Morgan was really good last year, even though I used to... Listen, Adam Morgan was on my list. He was on everyone's list except a few people who wanted to defend him.

He was the worst starting pitcher. He's the worst starting pitcher because he was throwing 92 and then all of a sudden he comes back from the minor leagues and he's throwing 96. That's a pretty stark difference. Sure it is. And his slider got really, really good. I think he's healthy now for the first time in years. Yeah, and I think him in a bullpen role is just better than trying to stretch him out.

And I can't believe I'm here. I trust Adam Morgan, which I never thought I would ever say in my entire life. I think he's really good now. I think the Phillies bullpen, of all the things that's gone on this offseason, Jack, with Santana, Arrieta, the signings, Kapler, Klintak looking forward to next year, expectations. The bullpen's the one thing no one has talked about because Tommy Hunter is not exactly a sexy name to talk about. But he's really good.

And he developed a great cutter last year that changed his career. Last year, everyone talked about Brandon Morrow. He had just as good of a year as Brandon Morrow did. And they got him on a pretty decent contract. Yes. And they also brought back Neshek, who's just good. Pat Neshek's just good every year. He's the same guy every year. The bullpen's gonna be, it could be really good. I'll say

could be, because bullpens are weird and you never really know, but it's like the one thing we're not talking about that could really spur them to be better than we think. Except that they released Fernando Abad, but I don't think, I don't know if Ramos can be the multi-inning guy. I think he's more of a back end of the bullpen,

hopefully a guy that can develop into a Luis Garcia. What about a Sir Anthony Dominguez? See, I like him. They keep saying he's coming quickly. He could be here. Yeah, and they keep saying he's a starter. He's been a starter his whole minor league career. And now he's been strictly out of the bullpen this spring.

Maybe they're grooming him for that role. Another guy who they announced is going to the bullpen today, or not announced, but I think, was it Gelb that came out with it? Jake Thompson? That Jake Thompson is going to be in the bullpen as well. Maybe they're trying to groom him for that role. I think Jake Thompson stinks, so I'm not really in on that. Even though he has a good spring ERA, but it's like when I watch him,

I see him still have inconsistent fastball location which is a key for me but maybe out of the bullpen if you need him for three innings he could just throw as hard as he can and and figure it out that way it's amazing how many starters that stunk as starters become good relief pitchers every year i mean it's really every relief pitcher is that miller was horrible uh archie bradley was horrible mariano rivera was a bad starting pitcher this happens all the time it happens all the time and maybe this can happen with a guy like Velasquez, who I feel like Velasquez is on his last chance here as a starter, at least. Well, I'll tell you this, Jack, as we look forward to the season and what they're going to be and

what they could be, if they're buyers of the deadline and they trade for a starting pitcher, it could actually be two acquisitions at once. Because it could be whoever that guy is jumps into the rotation. If Eikhoff comes back. And then whoever of Velasquez or Pavetta is not doing well, they go to the bullpen. It could be like acquiring a starter and a reliever in one move. And make you that much deeper for a playoff run. Yep.

Because I really do think Pavetta would be unhittable. He would be Chad Green. He is Chad Green. He's already throwing 97. and that's as a starter. And he can do that pretty late in games. Although what he's been doing these last couple of starts and why I'm bullish on Nick Pavetta is that he's been throwing down a 92-93 range, trying to get out to his fastball, making contact.

Sometimes you've got to pitch to contact, and he's always struggled with that, and Velasquez has struggled with that. And the curveball is still the curveball. It still it's still like it's up there like it's it's one of your favorite things in the world right now i wake up thinking about nick pivetta's curveball i think anyone that listens to the helps podcast probably does the same thing it's sharp it's like that's the difference between him and velasquez i think pivetta's better than velasquez strictly because i think his curveball is sharper like i don't trust velasquez's curveball at all to get swings and misses.

And I think it's more of a show-me pitch at this point, whereas Pavetta, it's like, oh, that thing's disgusting. And I think if you put him in that middle relief role or the mop-up slash keep us in this ballgame role, I can only imagine how hard his fastball gets up there. So are you rooting against Nick Pavetta as a starter? No, because I really think that he's 2012 Jake Arrieta. Well, he's the perfect guy to show him how to harness it now.

He is the perfect ERA, too. Is that Nick Pavetta calling? Well, now that that's situated and that call is avoided, let's get back to talking about Nick Pavetta. Just kidding. So who is, speaking of breakout candidates, Um, so is it, who is speaking of breakout candidates, who is on your, the top of your list of the breakout candidates on the Phillies this year? I'm going to give you two.

One I mentioned already in the context of open. I think a Dubre Ramos could be really good. He came back last year after he was sent down and we talked more about Adam Morgan, Luis Garcia, but the second half of the season, especially August on their bullpen was pretty good. This happens once in a while where a team is out of it, and you don't notice the details. If a guy starts a season really well,

you pay attention. You're just like, wow, his ERA's zero. Or he's hitting 400. But when it happens in August of a bad year, you're like, oh, whatever. His ERA dropped from 6 to 3. No one pays attention. Ramos was really good down the stretch. So I'm in on Adubre Ramos being really good for the Phillies this year, adding to a good bullpen.

The other guy I will give you is I think that, and I know you're going to say we've been down this road before, I think that new swing last chance I think they're going to get something out of Michael Franco this year. And it's going to complicate the Kingery situation because there's not going to be easy

playing time for him. It's going to be a challenge for Gabe. A challenge but a challenge I think Michael Franco's gonna hit 30 home runs if he if he keeps stepping straight and doesn't go back to eating the trash which is stepping towards towards the the freaking fans and on the third baseline he always does it's infuriating well he didn't used to be that way I was watching the home runs he hit in Yankee Stadium when he was when he first came up yeah closed stance didn't have a be that way. I was watching the home runs he hit in Yankee Stadium. When he first came up? Yeah. Closed stance. Didn't have a big leg kick.

Like, it is so frustrating because if he just keeps everything closed, he could be a really, really productive hitter that can cover the whole plate and be really productive for his team. I'm not ready to give up on Mike Alfranco. You know who I think he could be? Like, there's a world out there. There's a reality where it clicks. He's Edwin Encarnacion. Edwin Encarnacion, when he was young, stunk,

and he did the same things, and the Reds gave up on him. And now, look, it meets 35 home runs every year. Oh, don't let Franco go to Toronto. That's the only thing. If they call, you can't answer the phone. Yeah, don't. Don't. Because I'd be terrified.

But people are listening to this right now, Jack, and they're like, these guys are so stupid. I know. Franco stinks. Get rid of him. I get tweets every day. Just release it. People want to this right now, Jack. They're like, these guys are so stupid. Franco stinks. Get rid of him. I get tweets every day. Just release. People want to DFA for Kingry.

They're not going to do that, obviously. I can't quit the talent because when I see him and I see the exit velocity and I just see the raw power, I just can't quit. I'm perfectly fine giving up on him after this season. Just give me the last season. Make sure he sucks. Make sure he sucks. Make sure he sucks. One more little confirmation.

Just make sure he sucks because if he comes back, he's one of those guys that comes back and he bites you in the ass like five years from now. And I just don't want that to happen. There's a scenario where he's a Ramos Ramirez. And there's a path to a good player here. I just want to make sure. We're still in the transition phase. Making the playoffs will be really fun this year. It's great just want to make sure. We're still in the transition phase.

Making the playoffs will be really fun this year. It's great to have baseball back, but we are still in the figure out who is a part of your next core, and Franco's always supposed to be part of this core, and he's kind of killing himself right now. I do think, though, because of where they are and because of what they want to be this year, they're not going to give them all year.

Right. If we get to June and they're playing around 500 baseball and then there's a path to the wild card and Kingrey's about to come up, listen, Mikel, thanks, but you're not playing much anymore. I think at that point, they'll cut bait. They're not going to DFA him, but he's just not going to play every day anymore. Are you buying

the buzz around baseball that they're a legit playoff team? They could be. Here's why I kind of buy it. I don't think the NL wild cards are going to be as good as they were last year. I don't remember what they were in terms of wins. What was it last year? Like 90 and 88?

Something like that? Arizona and Colorado were the wildcards last year, and the game was in Arizona, I believe. So they had more wins. But I think both those teams are a little worse this year than they were last year. I don't think they're going to be quite as good. I mean, look, you have a lot of teams in it. You have the Cardinals who are better. The Brewers are better. The Giants maybe could be good again. I don't know. They traded for a

whole bunch of veterans that were at one point great players. So weird. It is weird. They're like the Phillies of five years ago. Yes. The Mets, there's a path where the Mets are good, even though we all laugh at them because they're injuries. They have a potentially great pitching staff. Those guys never stay healthy. So there's a lot of teams in it. But I don't believe any of those teams are 90-win teams. So I don't think it's going to take a great year out of the Phillies to do it. Can they win 83 games and be in it the last two weeks of the season where the second wild card's 86? I think so.

So last year the Diamondbacks went 93-69. That's going to be a major aggression candidate just because of the humidor. And I don't know. Zach Granke's throwing 84 miles an hour. Feels like an 85 win team. And then you have J.D. Martinez who hit like 900 the last two months. He was unbelievable. I'm not buying them coming close to 93 wins again.

Colorado won 87 games last year. I like the Rockies more than you just because I think they finally got a bullpen. They're fickle every year. They could win 90 games a year. I like the Rockies more than you just because I think they finally got a bullpen, but I still, like, they're fickle every year. They could win 90 games a year. They could win 75 games a year. If David Dahl comes up, if Ian Desmond has a bounce

back year, they could maybe be something. Trevor Story has a bounce back year. They have good young pitching, but we'll see when Colorado, it's tough to... It's Colorado. I mean, John Gray, if he went anywhere else, that's probably a top 15 pitcher. He looks like Noah Syndergaard, but there he's just a guy. Yeah, of course. And then the Brewers won 86 games.

They'll probably be better because they added Lorenzo Cain and Christian Yelich. But the starting staff still isn't great. And they didn't get anybody. They didn't even get Alex Cobb, who was just a free agent. Dumb. And they didn't go after Arrieta, which is dumb. Cardinals won 83 games last year. They're better.

They should. I mean, they have the Cardinals. I think we're just trusting based on them being the Cardinals, they'll be 83 games last year. They're better. They should. I mean, the Cardinals, I think we're just trusting based on them being the Cardinals, they'll be better than last year. Miami, 77. Done. Pittsburgh, 75. Done. Atlanta, 72. And then it's just... The Mets, maybe.

The Mets won 70 games last year. They rock bottomed last year. You would hope their offense would be better. You would hope that Syndergaard stays healthy. DeGrom stays healthy. Mets, maybe. And then the Phillies, you know, with I think I saw something yesterday that Aaron Nola and Jake Arrieta were ranked the 9th best 1-2 combo in the sport

coupled with a lineup that, I mean, even last year in the second half they went 37-38 and their starting staff was almost hurt the whole year. And I think there's a lot of people out there I've said this, I think they could have a winning record and people are like, ah, that's a big jump. And you just said they were 500 in the

second half. In baseball, I don't think we should look at it as linear jumps. Teams do this all the time. The Rays, the year they played the Phillies in the World Series. Worst to first. Worst to first. The Orioles in 2011 to 2012 went from like 65 wins to 95 wins and made the playoffs. This happens a lot. I looked at the Rockies last year, the Dimebacks.

It's not, like basketball feels like you have to make slow progression. More happens a lot. I looked at the Rockies last year, the Dimebacks. It's not... Basketball feels like you have to make more incremental leaps. Even football. The Eagles went from 7-9 then they got really good. But usually you see 7-9, 10-6. Baseball, you could do it. You could be 60-60, 60-70, 85-90. It happens.

I think what we can learn from the Eagles is that if you see something, just trust it. when i when i saw the eagles making all those moves last year i was like they're gonna have a really good team on paper and on paper they were great and it will but obviously we had we had we worried about the dream team and but they were talking all off season how they're going to be in the in the hunt this year they're always doing the same thing the phillies are doing the exact same thing and on paper they're a good team they have a really deep bullpen.

They have lefty options, righty options, hard throwing options. Closer rolls still a big question mark. I don't think signing Greg Holland would be a good idea. Just give Neres a ball and see how it goes from there. The offense on paper is probably going to have some lulls just because they're young and they're still ascending. They're still learning. And they really only have, what, three, four mainstays i would think with five not eight mainstays yeah i'm trying to get the mainstays like hoskins but consistent throughout the whole year should be consistent santana

santana hoskins cesar alter uh abduble is gonna throw go through his swings. Adubo is consistently inconsistent. Crawford's going to have a consistent OBP. Hitting-wise, don't know. I've been really impressed with Jorge Alfaro. I need you to like your guy. You have his jersey yet? I think we're completely underrating Jorge Alfaro. Jorge Alfaro has not only looked great defensively this spring training,

framing-wise has been great. I don't know how he's calling the games. I mean, we just don't know that because you're not really game planning in spring training. Framing-wise it's been great. I don't know how he's calling the games. I mean, we just don't know that because you're not really game planning in spring training. Throwing out guys with his hoes. But at the plate, not chasing pitches, letting at-bats come to him. I've been blown away by Jorge Alfaro.

I'll throw it to you this way. I think they could get above average production at every single lineup spot. Think about that for a second. When was the last time the Phillies had that at every single lineup spot. Think about that for a second. When was the last time the Phillies had that? Every single lineup spot from first base, second base, third, above average production at the end of the season. Better than average at every position.

You score a lot of runs if you do that. Well, at least there'll be something to watch. It used to be 7-8, turning the channel, I'll be back at the top of the lineup. Or two, because Freddy Galvez was there. Right. That's different this year. That's completely gone. And Jake Arrieta's going to be hitting one of those days, and that dude rakes.

Dude rakes. No one talks about that around here. Jake Arrieta's going to hit home runs. People are going to love that guy. Yeah, I mean, we freaked out over Cliff Lee home runs, and Cole Hamels home runs, so we're going to do the exact same thing with Jake Arrieta. Do you think we underrate how much fun having a good baseball team is in this city? We definitely do.

I think it's been a long time. So I think we forget what it feels like. And we hated the end of the Amara regime. I was more angry at the Phillies than anything. I didn't want to watch. I didn't want to support the team because I thought if I supported the team, then that's validating everything they did but the underrating of a good Phillies team in this city continues to blow me away because those runs they they were more talked

about than the Eagles for a five-year period they were uh they were special I mean that we'll probably never have that again they literally won more games every year for five consecutive years that's almost impossible to do. Yeah. And I do think part of it is we're underrating it because I think we forget how fun it is to watch a young baseball team rise and become a contender. I think we got way too, I don't know what the word is, but people stopped enjoying it as much because we won another World Series. They won the one in 2008. It was like everything they did after that was disappointing. But that run was amazing.

And if this feels a little bit like 06, 07 again, we're like, this is starting now. It is. And they only have more in the pipeline coming in 6, though. Like that's what I've maintained since we started doing this podcast, really, is that the upside of the Phillies is higher than any other team in the city because of their roots in the Dominican, their roots in Latin America, what they're building down there, how good they've already been at finding prospects there,

their minor league system, they're teaching these guys OBP, framing everything, and they're clearly invested in it, which they weren't at the end of the Amaro regime. They have all the money in the world, and they have a top three pick in this year's draft. Their upside, when they get there, when they make the playoffs, when they hopefully get

in World Series contention, I think they're going to stay there for a long time, and we're not going to have the lulls of this last five years. The thing I really like about the way they've done this, and you mentioned the Cubs, they've built it mostly with batters, which you could project them. You know what they're going to be. You don't worry about their health. And we know Sixto's coming, and I can't wait to watch him pitch.

But if you have your whole rebuild based on pitchers. Look at the Mets. Exactly. There's high highs and low lows. The Phillies have some good pitchers, and I'm sure they're going to arrive here at some point and start being part of this thing. But Hoskins and everything else they have with this young Crawford, Kingrey.

These guys, you could just close your eyes and say for the next 10 years, if they keep them, this is what they'll probably be. That's probably easy to build a team around. It is easier than building or pitching. I like that. And that's not even factoring in Machado or Harper. They're probably 25. It is easier than building or pitching. I like that. And that's not even factoring in Machado or Harper. They're probably 25. It's insane. You can sign them to a 10-year

$500 million contract and it's not going to... You don't have to worry about them aging horribly. It's like the A-Rod contract. The first one he signed was perfect because if he didn't opt out and re-sign again for another 10 years, it would have been the perfect... 25 is like the perfect free agent age. It doesn't happen often. They haven't even reached their prime yet. No. the best years of harper machado aren't happening yet and they're

gonna happen here one of them who do you think is more likely to happen here machado or harper machado but i don't think if you asked me a year ago i would have said it's clearly machado because i thought i thought harper excuse me was ticketed for new york and for the yankees but they got stanton and i don't know what they're doing now. Machado might actually make more sense for them. So I think Machado is more likely, but I wouldn't rule out the Bryce Harper thing. They love Machado. They know him.

They draft him. You saw when that video came out with Arrieta getting off the private plane. It's like all those old Orioles guys are just standing there. They'll do the same thing for Machado when he comes in to visit. They drafted him. Honestly, you can put me to sleep. Wake me up when he's off that plane because I see the exact same thing happening on Machado. Manny? Yeah, but I feel

like Harper's more realistic at this point, which sounds crazy. I think Machado's going to be a Yankee. I think the Yankees are going to pay whatever it takes to have him be their third baseman of the future. I think Harper is going to not only be excited at the contract, but I think Scott Boris laid the groundwork for this deal with John Middleton.

He was talking to John Middleton once Arrieta was throwing his first sim game. He was just sitting there talking to Middleton and building that relationship. And maybe it could have been a, hey, I'll help you. You scratch my back. I'll scratch yours with Bryce Harper next year. Also, have you seen Bryce Harper's numbers here? It's incredible. He's, he? It's incredible.

He's, he, he's, every single bad, he's hit a home run here. He owns this park. He only hits home runs here. The one thing about Harper I don't know, I don't think any of us know yet, I don't know what he wants. Like when Ken Griffey Jr. left the Mariners and he asked for a trade, he wanted to go closer to home. That was his objective.

Is Harper's money, is it, like he's a big baseball buff, is it history? Does he want to play in Chicago at Wrigley Field? I don't know what Bryce Harper wants. If it's about money and winning for the next few years, yeah, here. Because they'll get a big offer here and they could win. I don't know what he wants, though. Yeah, I don't know what he wants either because his dog's name is Wrigley. Yeah, that's the thing. His dad was the biggest Mickey Mantle fan.

He took a picture at Monument Park last year or two years ago where he had been freaked out because he was going to go to the Yankees. I don't know what is like. What's his thing? His best friend is Chris Bryant. Yankees Cubs. Yankees Cubs. The Dodgers play close to where he grew up in Nevada.

So that's family. I don't know. I don't know what he wants. But I think the upside of coming here is just immense. Or does he want to be the highest paid player ever? Because that was part of A-Rod's thing and he went to Texas. No one had that on the radar. The Phillies are kind of like that. Texas? The Phillies? That's where Bryce Harper's going to go?

But it could be. If he wants to get paid, this is probably the place. So, we are about eight days away. Eight days? That's right. My math is correct. We are eight days away. We are eight days away. The Phillies are... You think they're going to be right in the mix of this whole thing.

We're going to have fun, hopefully playoff-ish baseball. Hopefully, I just need the rally towels back. I need a CBP full of white rally towels because. Like a late September series of rally towels? I'll be there. We'll both be there. Man, I'm honestly tearing up a little bit just thinking about it because I live for a sold out bank with 45,000 rally towels going.

It's been a long time since that happened. It's been way too long, but I think they're coming back. I think it's all on the rise. Aaron Altair is their best outfielder. Are you with me? No. Hoskins. Aaron Altair.

First off, Hoskins is a first baseman. But he plays left field. Yeah, first off Hoskins is a first baseman but he plays left field yeah but okay he's a first bet he's a first baseman he's gonna play left field all year all I'm saying is that Aaron Altair is Jason Wirth reincarnated he's Jason Wirth 2.0 get excited stay excited about Aaron Altair because his breakout season is is is upon us Joe Giglio shout out to you for joining us. Listen to him every night at 6. It's a good show. It's a pretty fun show. You guys seem to have fun on that show. It's well produced.

I was going to say the same thing. Really well produced. The guy behind the mic seems to be a fun time. Listen to him every night. If you're going down the ballpark this year, definitely tune in to Leading Off. And then when you're leaving, final out. Yeah, we got you covered.

Either way, you'll have Jilio in your car sometime. So we'll talk to you soon and enjoy opening day next week. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen. We have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game it's my podcast it's my passion it's a cause

i started more than two years ago and it's now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is another fact so jump aboard the bib express follow and listen to baseball isn't boring presented by wasabi hot cloud storage on the free odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts