High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - James is Not a Fan of Matt Klentak

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz discuss the MLB lockout and how much they miss Phillies baseball. The guys also talk MLB Hall of Fame, Matt Klentak's long awaited exit, and much more. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the high hopes podcast. It's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the Phillies on radio.com and sports radio, 94 WIP. It is another edition of the High Oaks Podcast. Jack Fritz, I have one question to ask you, just to start off from the top,

and you can hear it in the yo, nothing against anything like normal, just the fact that why do we have the dumbest sport in the world that is our favorite sport? Why can't they figure anything out? They get the freaking labor stuff wrong. They get the whole of fame voting wrong. Nothing makes sense, Jack.

Hey, buddy. Hey, Ben. Yeah, it's something, isn't it? Oh, I'm so annoyed today, Jack. You're getting annoyed seltzer today. Yeah, I can tell. And I'm there with you. You know, like, I just wish they were normal.

You know what sucks, man? And listen, I think they're going to figure it out. I don't think we're going to miss games. You're so optimistic. Just for reference sake, before you make your point, Jack, we were talking about doing the pod today yesterday, and Jack's like, well, you never know. We could get good news and be back to talking baseball soon. I like Jack like come on man you're so optimistic um yeah I know and you

know the thing is James is that like you see football over the weekend I know and it's like oh 40 or 51 million people watched Chiefs, Bills, or whatever. And, like, everyone's, like, dude, like, everyone's show opens inside the sports radio world. It was like, wow, that game was crazy. It wasn't anything. And it was the whole weekend. It was like that game was amazing. And, oh, yeah, we just saw a perfect weekend of football.

And what a great sport. And, oh, they just know how to do it oh they make money hand over foot and they don't have lockouts and every like well i mean it's a good thing that baseball is a strong players union and it's unfortunate that football doesn't but like it's just there's there's never it seems like it's worse i know i know but there's never there's never problems with football like you know why why does it have to be this one that's like, yeah, no, everyone hates each other. No one gets along.

We make insulting offers for, like, no reason either. Like, the freaking owners didn't have to make a $10 million. Like, they didn't have to be, you know, bleeps about it. Insulting? Yeah. What were they? The players were asking for, like, $150. And they're like, eh, we'll give you 10 how's

10 million like it's like such a slap in the face it's like of course you guys hate each other like what what else would you expect i know and it's just again i i and i don't trust i don't people on the planet and baseball owners you know i feel i just don't trust that and my thing is i don't trust that. And my thing is, I don't trust that Manfred has the stones in a way to be able to handle this right now. I just don't. And I know everyone likes piling on Manfred, and rightfully so. This is a massive thing. This is a potential work stoppage for a sport that is already losing interest amongst its core watchers and consumers. And I do think it's doing better with younger people.

I would say most of that has to do with the High Ops podcast. Oh, I would say the vast majority. I mean, nothing numbered. You're welcome, Rob. Yeah, exactly. And it's like you had a bit of momentum, I feel like, in a way, with the younger crowd kind of getting into baseball again. I'm sure gambling is helping and fantasy and all that.

I just don't trust Manfred to be able to handle this moment. This is a massive moment for the sport. I just don't think that they have any concept of baseball is in trouble if they don they don't figure this out now i'm largely the belief like and i know like i'm might be the crazy one here but i think people will come back no matter what like i'll come back i'll watch the phillies whenever they play again we know we know you will right but you're the one they're worried about yeah but i'm just trying i'm trying to think of everyone else and i just you're out they should just shut this word down right officially done yeah right i mean dude i i texted you this yesterday like i i was watching quarterback draft prospects like i i want to watch forever highlights it's so sad it was honestly it's like

a top five saddest text i've ever gotten from you yeah and i mean do you want to go through the other top five we do we're big big top five list people. There's nothing else to talk about because our freaking sport isn't playing. I know. I know. And it's just, I wish there was someone in that room that I could trust. And I don't trust for it to be Rob Manfred. And probably rightfully so because he's been pretty bad at every single turn and the the the just the sheer importance of of this decision and and and and not making this look as bad as possible and try like his job is supposed he was a labor negotiation

guy that was his whole thing was being this is like his wheelhouse that was like the whole point of him honestly this is why he was hired i mean we're talking about there was always going to be a labor strike there was always this was going to happen he was hired specifically for this moment and i i just i can't trust that guy to get it right yeah i i wouldn't trust him to get my coffee man like especially with like just within the last year just within one year jack we've already seen him, I guess you could say one and a half years. Let's go to the pandemic. Within two years, one and a half years,

whatever you want to call it, we have seen him disastrously handle getting back on the field during a pandemic. That whole could have had, as we talked about so many times, could have dominated the sports world, could have been a beacon of hope in America, the first sport to come back, all this stuff, baseball, the American past. It was such a moment that they had the opportunity to do.

And they got back the same freaking week as basketball and hockey. It was such a travesty the way he handled that. And then obviously the whole Astros thing, prior to that, it's just thing after thing after thing after thing. This guy has done a horrendous job handling. I mean, again, back to the, it's just a hunk of metal. Like it's like everything that this guy does is wrong. And to your point, Jack, I mean, like this is why he was hired. He was hired for this moment right now. And the fact that like, no, yeah, they're starting to meet. That's good.

What the hell have they been doing for the last six weeks? Like, what were we doing here? Like, there wasn't even a meeting. And then they come back in the first meeting, they're wildly far apart. The next one, they're getting closer, but still far apart. And the next one, they're still far apart to the point where you said,

where the players are asking for $150 million in this pool of money, the bonus pool thing, and they offer 10. Like, that is like a slap in the face. It is, and again, for a group of owners who are the only billionaires on the planet who can cry poor, the only billionaires on the planet

who can tell us how poor they are all the time, like, and that these guys, like, are still pinching every penny with these players, the minor league players, like the disaster that's been in their living situations all that for years like all these things like that are just it's we don't curse in this podcast but it's bleeped up jack is bleeped up the relationship here and especially when you look at the fact there are owners in this league like let's say

bob nutting in pittsburgh or any other ones you want to talk about where oakland tampa bay where they have a super smart front office and they make it work. But these people are making money on their teams and they are refusing to spend it. They're refusing to spend money and yet they're making money hand over fist. And the whole small market thing, like you're rich enough to own a baseball team. Other clubs find ways to work around these things. Like the whole system is so screwed up. And, and I just, I blame the owners.

Like, and it, look, everyone's at fault. We've talked about it before the millionaires and billionaires fighting, but it's just, it's so frustrating to me that the owners just always want to get over on the players, always want to win these things, always want to dominate instead of looking at the greater good of their thing. This, this thing that they own that we always talk about, millions of people love and support and spend their money on and spend their free time on and all that,

and they don't give a crap about us. They don't give a crap about the fans. All they care about is making as much money as possible, and it's incredibly frustrating, Jack. Like, just figure this out and give us our freaking sport. Like, everyone's going to make money it's good everyone's gonna make money you're all gonna make money you just have to get on the freaking field man so yeah everything seems fine and it's great it's great it's great good at least they got the hall of fame right oh yeah

everything's fine are you speaking of before we get into that? You mentioned I could have just done an hour without you solo yelling about the Hall of Fame if I really wanted to. Like, yeah, but I'm just about that. I just wonder how quickly people would turn that off of like very quickly. Very quickly. Very, very, very. No. So I horrible.

But it would be cathartic for you, though. You would be able to. Yeah. Yeah. horrible listen but it would be it would be cathartic for you though like you would be able yeah um you were in that in that rant i i picked up on you saying we don't curse in this podcast and i was listening to go birds over the weekend or maybe last weekend uh here on here on wip and i believe a caller was talking about the earmuffs thing. Yes. And it just made me realize, you know, Jack, you really got that one right. We don't have to do the earmuffs thing on this podcast. We're a family-friendly podcast.

Like, you really got that decision right. We don't have to deal with the earmuffs thing. You know? It is funny. Whenever we meet, you know, the awesome high-ups people, like, inevitably, someone will always be like, why don't you guys curse? And then I'll point him at Jack. So to those people, I'm here. And I appreciate you.

We do know how to curse though. Like if we, many people, many people have asked like for us to do a full cursing podcast. We definitely curse a lot more. Oh, that would actually be a really funny one. Like if we went, we could do that, that right where we go in and say hey don't listen to this with your kids this one pod we're gonna curse a lot that'd be really funny actually we should consider that it's a great idea yeah yeah maybe that maybe when the maybe we see this phil's ballpens out the field again i mean it's been what you You're saying like 2023, 2024 are we talking? It doesn't matter the next. This might.

All right. If they go into the season with the idea that Corey Knable can be their full-time closer, I will just be so woefully disappointed. And I know this is like for talk when they actually get back on the field and all that. And, you know, when they can make moves again. And hopefully this is all like a smokescreen. But like the guy can never stay healthy. He's been a great closer once.

It's a one-year deal. I mean, are they seriously coming into the season banking on Corey Kniebel being like, I love Corey Kniebel. He was a part of both of our perfect off seasons. I was signing him for the nearest role, not the closer role. So if that's their thought process, I'm already frustrated with this season. Yeah, I love how you just slipped Philly's talk right in. You came and helped yourself. We're talking about labor and strike.

You're like, by the way, Philly's thought. Listen, it's a Phil's pocket. You know what I mean? I know, but that frustrated me when you're talking by the way listen it's a phil's pocket but you know what i mean i know but that's what i mean that like frustrated me when you're talking and not your point because i agree with you but the idea that like we should be talking about that stuff jack we should be talking about oh they signed schwarber oh why didn't they sign this guy or why did they make that trade or oh i love that trade instead we can't talk about that well that. Well, that's not true. That's not true because they've never made a fun trade.

I mean, like, it's a really good point, Jack. Even the JT trade, like, that was such an, like, it wasn't losing 6-0. It was like 6-0 for JT, basically. And it's like, oh, that makes sense for both teams. We get it and whatnot. We can never set, like, a cool underrated trade, like an under the radar where I can just, like, I just want to dive into someone's baseball savant page and see like, why did they make this move?

I tried it last year with Chase Anderson and Matt Moore. It backfired. Although Matt Moore did throw a no hitter for the Phillies. So you got to kind of factor that into this whole situation. But I just want to, I, you know, I want a cool trade. I want a Mitch Keller trade. You know, I want, I want something. I just, that's i just why

can't we they just give us something i'm dying james like i just i know baseball they can't because they're locked i know because the owners are locking the players out and they act like it's a combined lockout is that isn't that the most insulting thing in the world no no it's a baseball thing no it's not it's not it's it's an owner mandated lockout it's a baseball thing. No, it's not. It's not. It's an owner-mandated lockout. Everything else is just disingenuous. 215-592-9494. Hey! All right.

You got anything else on the lockout? Because I don't want to talk about him, right? No. Why would I want to talk more about the lockout? I don't know. Sometimes you got a weird lockout take out of nowhere on me. All right. Hall of Fame.

Like, we don't have to go nuts. We don't have to, like, yell and scream. I think anyone who listens to this pod knows that we are incredibly disappointed that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens were not elected in the Hall of Fame. But your thoughts on the whole thing, like, just, yeah, why not? Nah, well, you know what's funny is that I don't get, like,

for example, our good friend Jack Keffer, he texted me last night, very upset, and then he comes in today, and he's, like, all downtrodden about, like, the Bonds thing. And I said to him, why? It's how it's been for 10 years. They're not going to put him in the Hall of Fame.

It's just not going to happen. And I just find it, the fact that his helmet is already in the Hall of Fame, the MVP. Barry Bonds did stuff on a baseball field that we'll never see before or never see again. Like, even for as good as Juan Soto is. Like, Bonds did that for four years. Light years. What Juan Soto did in September.

And I just. That was better in September. Okay, good. No, no. And I thought Big Papi was a Hall of Famer But like how can we sit here And tell me that Big Poppy who

I pretty think he admitted to it And was also Yeah it was definitely in that Yeah in that 03 you know Survey the names were The names came out and David Ortiz was going to He wasn't in trouble for it But he was

Allegedly whatever if we had to throw allegedly in there But like out david ortiz was going to recover also you know right in trouble but he was allegedly whatever if we had to throw allegedly in there but like i just don't like i mean also let's say there was never anything david ortiz like a whatever 260 hitter with the twins without a bunch of bobcums to boston all of a sudden he's huge and it's 541 career home runs i'm just saying that's the one where i was getting to where it's like where it's like, obviously he did something. I mean, I don't think it's attributed to launch angle or whatever. Just use your eyes and use deductive reasoning. And I just don't get how you can look at it honestly and say, this guy didn't cheat as much as this guy, so we'll put him in.

Like Pudge Rodriguez, same thing. You know, and it's just... Piazza, all these guys. I just find it so stupid, and I just... It's... Again, they act like it's the most important thing in the world. It's a museum of baseball.

You can't tell the story of baseball without Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. And for me, I loved Roger Clemens. I loved him. I mean, a horse, 45 years old, figured out a splitter. His splitter was so disgusting. He figured out a slider late in his career.

He's the definition of a horse. And, like, steroids or not, to be able to do what he was doing was insane. And it just, it's, again, it's a museum of baseball. Put them in there. You can't tell a story of baseball without those guys. Yeah. I mean, that in and of itself, that basic point is is you know done conversation over but like i mean again the fact that they they elect david ortiz who has and again not maybe not

as much or maybe not as you know extensive steroid allegations or or whatever you want to call it against him but to to have bond and clemens in there last year on the ballot and to not put those guys in and then put in someone who had steroid connections like it's just like it's of course it's like the hypocrisy at the highest level it is so silly it's because ortiz a nice guy and bonds and clemens were a holes that's it they didn't like him and these reporters and these people who've covered the game like they're guys voting for the all-famous covered the game in a decade or more. Like it's so messed up, this system that they have. And they screwed Bonds and Clemens by changing it from 15 years to 10. They would have gotten it if it had been 15 years.

They clearly stacked the deck with that too. Like to your point, you're right. They were never going to put them in the Hall of Fame. They were never going to let those two guys in there. And it's a joke. It's just like I've already yelled. I've already freaked out on the air today like i don't i don't have much freak out in me left other than like i'm i'm just kind of

done with the baseball fame like this used to be one of my favorite debates one of my favorite things to argue about because it mattered so much it mattered so much this sport it like the hall of fame felt like an actual hall of fame like real real deal. Like you got to be the best of the best to get in here. And of course, there's going to be exceptions. Like Jim Rice got in and Andre Dawson got in and guys who were very good, but not that level. But for the most part in its history, this this Hall did such a great job of acknowledging the right guys, the guys who deserve to be in there. And then like now for this moral high ground, this day when all those guys, you can go back,

but you want to go back to Ruth times and say, you never played against a black player. How about that? How does that factor into the whole legacy of that? Like all those guys didn't the next arrow, the greenies, which talk to any former player. They will tell you that greenies are more impactful than voids.

Like it is much harder to get up and go out and play baseball. 162 out of 175 days or whatever it is without the greenies with that upper every day, getting you going, getting you going. Like that was many players think more impactful. And if nothing else, certainly impactful and against the rules and all that. Like, it's just, it's just this whole, this whole like oh all of a sudden now we're gonna stand on our moral high ground and say that's wrong and the the pièce de résistance of the whole thing is that these are the people who looked the other way when it was happening

all these writers knew mcguire was taking steroids new social was taking steroids new bonds was taking starts they all knew and every single one of them looked the other way. The league looked the other way. Bud Seelig is sitting in the Hall of Fame for looking the other way because it was making the sport popular again. It is just levels upon levels upon levels of hypocrisy. And the result of it is what you said, that we have a museum to preserve the history of the game, to tell the story of the game. And the best player I ever saw, the best player you ever saw, and the best player anyone our age ever saw,

the all-time home run champ isn't in there. Like, how dumb is that? Especially when you let the record stand. Why not take the home run champ away from him, right? Why is he the all-time home run champ if he can't get into the hall of fame it's all so stupid isn't it so baseball that the all-time home run king and the all-time hits leader it's not the hall of fame like it's so it's so absurd it's so absurd um well and it just brought me back to thinking again about like this weekend and how we're watching those games. And everyone's like, just like, wow, games are crazy.

And then baseball happens. Like everyone's yelling about the Hall of Fame. It could never just be about the the actual stuff on the field, which I wish it would. I love talking. I do think I do think, though, that that's another issue area where baseball yet again, like with everything else gets it wrong in the sense that like today like people cared like people want to talk we we on the midday show today tried to start with a sixers hardened topic or whatever and people only wanted to talk about the whole thing like it was the the biggest topic here in philly for people who listen to wip at least like people cared and like baseball had that opportunity and has this

opportunity to make this thing matter to make this something that people care about move forward and yes people are talking about it but they're talking about in the wrong way well i know but this i i honestly i think they're happy people are talking about not the labor stuff and they're still talking about the hall of fame stuff that you're you're right about that so and i mean they have dominated they've dominated headlines all day. Great. It's such a minor win for a bigger problem.

Honestly, I'm starting to buy into this more and more. I kind of came up with it yesterday. Guys should be on the ballot one time. It should be one time. And if the guy's a Hall of Famer. I love this so much, Jack. The guy's a Hall of Famer or he's not. And if it's not, then he can go to a veterans committee or whatever.

And that can be five years down the road, ten, whatever you want to make it. But one time on the ballot. It always bothers me how people have to be. Oh, Scott Rowland didn't get in this year, but in three years, he's going to get in. And then he'll be a Hall of Famer. Like, what? I know. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Like, Big Papi, I always thought he was the first ballot Hall of Famer. Like, I just did. He has huge postseason moments. You know, probably the best DH of all time. Like, that's a no. 5 time like that's that's a no it's a no freaking brainer but like i think a rod's a hall of famer and i like i think all these guys are hall of famers and it's just i don't again like like harold baines is in the hall. People are making cases for all these players.

It's like, yeah, fine. But, like, it's Barry freaking Bonds, A-Rod, Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens. Like, all timers. That's what's so frustrating for me. All timers. Like, over these guys that are in the hall of very good yeah again the best player i ever saw in my life you know that's it and and one of the three best pitchers i ever saw in my life like what's the point of this what's the point like when i bring zoe to the hall of

fame someday which now i probably won't but like if i were to bring zoe to the hall of fame someday and i'll oh you gotta you got to still go. Cooperstown's awesome. Yeah, it was until they ruined it. Tell her the story. I saw this player. This player was great. But the best guy I saw is in here.

Do you think that Zoe's going to be breaking down their war by that point? Oh, buddy. Hey, Daddy, his B-war was actually lower than this player. Yeah, she is. If she's not, I failed as a parent. Do you think Zoe's more eye test or analytics? Right now, eye test. She's an eye test gal.

Yeah, she's got a good eye for it. I'm a big fan of the eye test. We know. You ready for an out-of-nowhere take? I love an out of nowhere take. Please. I think using stats in sports arguments are the single laziest thing you can do. Wow.

That is a capital T take. It's just so lazy. Like, what really started this train rolling in my head was like having to see the chart of Josh Allen versus Jalen Hurts. Oh, my God. It's like, can we just take – we've gone too far. Like, we've just – I like stats. I like it. But we've gone too far if we're using that to compare the two.

And, like, it just makes sports arguments so not interesting. Like, just go back to the eyes. eyes are always right how's that how's that for for an analytics dude that is a a friggin it's just lazy it's lazy there's there's no it takes no skill to look up baseball reference or look up any of these sites and tell me what a guy did it there's nothing i think anyone can do that and believe me anyone can watch sports as well but like it's just it's so stupid it's not interesting it's not it's it's not it doesn't show you know anything it's just it's pure laziness yeah and also like for the most part these stat black contacts like it Like, it's just, you know, again, you know, our buddy Elliot likes to throw the Jonathan Gannon defense rankings at us. It's like, oh, he's got the eighth best defense in terms of points.

He's like, I don't care. He's visiting quarterbacks. It's like, oh, you need context with this stuff. Stats alone, like, when you just fire off stats, like, I'm with you. It means nothing. And we look with our eyes and we make our decisions i mean that's just the way it works jack i know it's tough it's just tough um so yeah that's my uh you will never be throwing out like you know wobah or ops plus never never because i i don't think i've ever heard you use those

before on this pod so only when we're talking about uh the peak of jayroll's uh career where he's a 95 ops plus yeah um 4 felt right i felt like the right number for jimmy on the bell i like like again i like stats i i just wish that it would back up what the eyes tell you more than like trying to fool yourself into thinking something that's not true yeah and also and like they they cannot be the deciding factor in any argument i think is the real thing you're saying it's like arguments are not solely based on stats correct elliot all right uh you got anything else on the hall of famer can we talk about some actual bona fide real deal good news in philadelphia uh let's get to some real deal good news bye bye don't miss you see i know you're gonna be like well i go to the brewers so probably gonna be good now it's king clint tag back in milwaukee way to read my mind kid i i

have this i know you too well as i was saying it i was like i actually know what jack's gonna say back to me right now so here we go i think he's gonna be good in milwaukee like i just like i just i'm sorry like i think every i think i love i think everyone who was a part of the under mcphail like everyone has gone and gone elsewhere and gotten better i mean seriously everyone who's just infected everyone and it was like you know and like it's not like it's not like matt klintak's gonna be running the team he clearly can't do that but i think he's gonna provide some value and i can just i can just see an article three years from now saying like matt klintak learned from his time with the phillies brewer's secret weapon the title of

the article is brewer's's Secret Weapon, and it's an article about how Mack Lentak behind the scenes just crushing with valuations and analysis. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, Mack Lentak had to learn his lessons in Philadelphia, but he's ready to be a GM again or something. It's all Ben Harris' fault. And it's just like, you know, why does it have to be the Brewers? If it was almost any other team, I'd be like, oh, he's clearly going to fail.

But the Brewers are definitely smart. And I think to make up for literally screwing up the should have been easiest rebuild in baseball history, they have sent us Corbin Burns. I think that's a fair trade. they have sent us Corbin Burns. I think that's a fair trade. We get Corbin Burns for you ruining what should have been the golden era of Phil's baseball. Yeah.

Do it. Thank you. Make the deal. Yeah. I think that is a truly fair trade. Honestly, I think we're still losing out. Five years of my life, Jack. All right?

Five years. I know. Believe me. Honestly, it wouldn't be enough you know yeah it wouldn't even be enough for the for the pain that they have caused this this fan base in in like look again they were handed an because an empty plate it was they had no money on the books. They had three top ten draft picks. And here we are.

Here we are. So yes, Corbin Burns and David Stearns. That's the trade. Dave, come work under Dave. No biggie. Just come on over. Yeah. Dave and Dave. I like that. I can go with the Dave and Dave. I think that's a winning formula. Yeah, look and Dave. I like that. I can go with the Dave and Dave. I think that's a winning formula.

Yeah, look, I'm not nearly as worried about Matt and Clint being good with the Brewers as you are. Just remember this podcast three years from now. I know. Look, I mean, you know, sign Zach Wheeler. That's good. That's a good one.

Awesome. He's a real genius. Zach Wheeler signing. Yeah. Well, Zach Wheeler. I still think that. You got to hit him one, right? I still think the biggest surprise of my entire Phillies fandom is Zach Wheeler saying, crediting the Phillies analytics staff for why he wanted to sign here.

Zach, are you sure? The plant? Is it your favorite type of plant? Did you water it and fertilize it like what are you doing really that's the like the phil's analytics staff who hasn't like unearthed one interesting player in their entire you know existence what a disaster what a disaster anyway i think clint sucks out there and i'm ecstatic he's going out of guy listen for a second there you yeah i i just not a fan of matt clinton wow that's a bold take man yeah i know some people might not like to hear it not a fan of matt clinton is that the time is that the time i've

never said one good word about him you will not find any audience of me saying one good word about matt clinton is the title of this podcast james is not a big fan of mac lindsay yeah i think it is well well listen people come here for takes man and that's a that's a sport that's a spicy one i mean not as good as your analytics are dumb take from before stats are dumb no stats are lazy it's good it's good thank you this is the right forum for that take uh uh one other guy leaving i know you know you're you're you're this is a tough one for you you all right franny's gone i'm really not like i just i'm gonna i know you're a mess about this i'm gonna miss i'm gonna miss my body um you don't produce phillies games because you are uh i don't know you're incompetent maybe you're not very good at your job um so i think that's

the best uh reason for it yes yes well one of us one of us was not you know uh uh born on third base in this job some of us had to work at it and so yes you're right i was not born on third base some of us had to work at it yeah you don't know what that's like but yeah that's true you're right yeah you know yeah well said some of us some of us had to grind our way to the top but yeah some of us had years working weekends and holidays some of us just waltzed in there and worked it out yep you're right good point uh thank you i've been staying on that one for a while um it's a really good one thanks buddy but but yeah so like talking down the line to defranzen and him giving us over-unders for the game and you know just

generally being a delight and being a guy that could actually talk smart baseball you know like like you know we had to listen to like smolts on the national broadcast like just crap all over the sport it was like so nice and refreshing to hear a guy that like didn't do that so um yeah no i mean washington's getting a good one um you know we took bryce from them they took franzen it seems like a pretty fair trade-off no offense Kevin I will make that trade again many people are saying that Franzen is the worth of the 2020s so he oh look at that well I'm curious to see if if Franny like maybe drops like I hope they never won a world series again or you know he like I just whatever worth did. I'm curious to see if

Franzen does that as well. It's disappointing. Just when I feel like I finally got him to a point where he's a Philly guy for him to kind of leave and now become a D.C. guy. He's not a D.C. guy.

I don't think there is D.C. guys. It's like a transitory thing like you're a politician or you're not it's like oh let me go sit in traffic and all that yeah sweet let me go look at the washington monument oh awesome but yes it's uh it's it's it's lost so uh good luck to franny and uh they're they're gonna on. I'm glad he's doing TV. That'll be fun. Except, I mean, they're a broadcaster call. It's just like I watch so many Schwarber highlights.

I watch so many Harper highlights. And I have heard the phrase like, see you later, like 400 times. No, no, no, no, no. Yes. No. Wow. Yeah. see you later so i was just i was literally just about to say like like i'm gonna miss him but i'm really happy for kevin brands and like what a a awesome opportunity he's getting to do tv like he was only part-time here even you know with la

doing games all that's like a real big jump for him. After that, I'm going to have to say I'm sorry, Kevin. I mean, it sucks. It sucks. That's tough, man. Oh my god. 100 times a year? Are you kidding me? 150? What is that? Especially

because that team stinks and he has to willfully watch that bullpen for he goes from the phillies bullpen which was just a train wreck the last couple years to that bullpen which made the phillies look like the 08 fills that might be a little bit of a stretch i know i mean it was a bad it was a bad bullpen was there anything. But was there anything as fun as coming back against the nationals last year? It was like every time the Phil's. Oh, it was great.

But you know, the, the, the counter to that was all the teams coming back against us. It was the counter. Every time they would go down by like two or three runs against the nationals, I would get excited. I was like, oh, here we go. Here we go. So yeah. By the way.

Have fun with that. Have fun with that down there for any. Yeah. Good. Good luck. No, here we go. Here we go. So, yeah. By the way. Have fun with that. Have fun with that down there, Franny. Yeah. Good luck, Kev. No, we love you. Maybe we'll have Kevin back when they play the Nationals. Probably not. No, he's too big time now.

Yeah. Well, no. I mean, we don't want him. Right. At this point. You know. Yeah. I mean, he left us.

It's okay. Love Jack. I'm fine. Jack's not fine. We'll get through it, though. I got you, bud. I mean, seriously. Can this baseball offseason get any worse?

If they don't sign Schwarber, you're finding a new podcast host. Again, back to the point, you were looking at quarterback prospects. That is like, you have sunk to the lowest level since I've known you. This has never happened. You are... It's tough. Do you want my quarterback prospect takes real quick not really but give them to me the only quarterback i'm interested in

them than the eagles of uh pursuing in this draft is carson strong i think i think he's got a hose he doesn't move very well but reminds me of brady and you just start starting quarterback take and then throw brady out as your first confidence roll? That is a boss move by you. I'm just getting out early on that one. I'm waiting for that one to be put out in the draft sphere. That was really good, man.

I would probably take the kid from Fresno State in next year's draft. That's the thing. Let's not get into Eagles talk. i think next year's draft looks looks good like maybe like move your assets forward and get like scroud or young or one of those guys well yeah anyone but the spencer rattlers things um but yeah that was yeah i mean he couldn't even keep his job in oklahoma what are we doing here this is what is happening right now yep This is what people came for.

Jack, did you know that the difference between Barry Bonds' career war and David Ortiz's career war is Alex Rodriguez's career war? That's how much better Barry Bonds was than David Ortiz. That's how much better, Jack. Did you know that David Ortiz's career OBP was 384?

And if you turned all of Barry Bonds' 700-some home runs into outs, his career OBP would be higher than 384. You know how I knew that? And that's bringing it full circle. Kevin Franzen texted me that today. How about that? Because Kevin Franzen saw it on Twitter this morning.

Probably. He was listening to our show and he texted it to me. I was like, come on, that's a great one. The guy was insane. Again, we're never going to see what he did from 01 to 04. Ever again.

I don't think you'll... If you get this reference, I'll be very proud of you. I don't think you will. But could they at least put John dowd on the hall of fame in place of barry bonds yeah see you don't get it you don't get it it sounds familiar though what is it john dowd was the player they created for like mvp baseball oh four or oh five oh really yeah and he was like he was like this 42 year oldold guy that was the best player in the league.

I remember that they did that. I didn't know his name was John Dow, but I remember that that happened. Yeah. Yeah. That's good work by you. If they could at least put John Dow. They should do that. That would be a really funny move.

They never would. No, they would never do that. Too serious, Jack. Mm-hmm. All right. Franny, we love you. We'll miss you. Maybe we'll have you back on.

I feel like we've gone way too far into this already to not talk about the fact that you did a top five for this podcast because you are completely sick and mentally unable to not do a top five for everything that you do. You're obsessed, Jack. I'm a little worried. All I do is top fives. All I think about is top fives'm a little worried all i do is top fives all i think about is top fives i know you're like you live life in top fives it's like like you know like uh neo sees the numbers moving by like you know whatever the beautiful minds he's like you know whatever every season you see the world in top fives everywhere you look yeah and my problem is is so for those who don't know i do it every day

five o'clock on marks and reese here in the afternoon show on wip i do a top five at five where i rank random stuff whatever i'm feeling that day it's usually dumb stuff because i like i like arguing about dumb things it's like one of my favorite things on earth but uh and the biggest problem james is that sometimes i'll wake up at like four or five in the morning. And the reason why I can't fall back asleep is because I'm thinking of a top five or five. Wow. I know it's really comfortable.

So I, so I figured I'd bring it to this podcast because again, there's no baseball going on. And I like talking about baseball and I like talking about the Phillies. And in a Matt Gelb piece this morning, he brought out some old school names from the last decade-ish that we watched and we've suffered through because this last decade of Phil's baseball has just been dreadful.

So, James, I have ranked here today the top five bad Phillies that I believed in. I love it. I love it. Is Aaron Altair on the list? Sorry, sorry, go ahead. Don't do this. Let me get to the list, okay? Don't do this. Don't be that guy.

Number five is Justin DeFratis. I loved Justin DeFratis. I did too, actually. I thought he did stuff. He should have been nasty. When you're talking about spin rate before spin rate,

it was DeFratis. He was the original spin rate. it was it was defratus i mean it was it was it was the original it was power fastball it was a good curveball just could never figure it out but i always believed in him he's like if we were doing this podcast in 2014 i would have been talking about justin defratus i love it that's a fantastic name i'm just pulling up his reference page my man spent a lot of time in the minor leagues my man does not have a lot we look through the reference page it's like little bit of phillies it's a lot of lehigh and redding and clearwater and lehigh and redding

and tacoma and round rock and harrisburg and arkansas anyway um yeah defratus loved him that didn't work out number four so this guy pitched against the phillies in 08 09 and when the phillies signed him i was like oh perfect bounce back candidate chad billingsley oh i loved billingsley i was so happy when they signed him in fantasy like i was i was all in a bit now to be fair when they signed him i thought he was cooked because of fantasy because i had owned him and he like kept getting hurt and couldn't stand feel non-stop so like i was i was not expecting anything from chad billingsley when he was in philly it's pretty sad that you were but i did like chad billingsley. Well, I remember thinking, if he can just stay healthy.

Yes, that's the story of Chad Billingsley. Number three is a guy who at one point, and again, never gets talked about, but at one point was by far the best setup guy in baseball. And that's Mike Adams. I was so in on the Mike Adams signing I was like oh awesome

we have a setup guy for the next like 4 years that's going to be the best in the sport and he was so bad here never lived up to the hype I loved Mike Adams I never have anything mean to say about Mike Adams except that I believed in him

wholeheartedly and he was an utter disaster here i didn't remember mike adams was a philly really do you remember him as a padre i i remember mike adams and i remember now that you say it i remember that he was a philly but like i totally blocked out of my memory that mike adams was here for a couple years totally blocked out i'm so sorry that you could possibly forget the great mike adams era i know i know somehow it's tough i'm gonna look up i mean those are those are the worst years like the oh the 14 15 yeah like 14 the a.j burnett oh god those are such awful years to call this really was man why can't i find of course this baseball reference is like impossible to find whatever anyway uh i love mike adams i'm sorry that you forgot about him

number two number two now early listeners to this podcast will remember this, but for those who don't remember, number two is Mr. Aaron Altair. There it is. I believe one member of this podcast said was the next Jason Wirth. Just not good. Like it could not read a curve ball, but, but he did. He did.

Unlike some of these others, like, I don't know, Justin DeFratis, I don't think you were the only one on Aaron Altair Island. Now, you were the loudest one on Aaron Altair Island, but I don't think you were the only one. Well, and there was just nothing more sad than the Nick Williams or Aaron Altair debates. Oh, buddy. Buddy. Just a real, real sad era. It was a tough time.

It really was. I'm excited to see who number one is because Altair would have been my number one for you. People do forget though that Aaron Altair hit a grand slam off of Clayton Kershaw. They sure do, buddy. That's important. What if people remember more? a grand slam off of Clayton Kershaw. They sure do, buddy.

That's important. Now, number one... What if people remember more, that grand slam off Clayton Kershaw or his time in the Korean League when there wasn't baseball during the pandemic and we were all following the Korean League for like a week? And he was great. And ESPN put it on at like 3 in the morning thinking people were like

so starved for live sports that people would watch it and like no one watched it. He was like, oh no, we oh no we don't care no no one cares i would rather not watch sports um now i feel like people listening to this are expecting my number one to be nick pivetta but i knew you wouldn't do that though because there's no way he's actually good right i'm all over you today like this is like i'm right in your head i don't like that i knew that's why i said who's number one. I assumed Altair would be number one because I knew that even, I was actually, my initial,

when I said Aaron Altair, my initial thought was like, I'm slightly worried he's going to tell me that Aaron Altair is good and not on the list. But I was like, you can't justify that, so he has to be on the list. Anyway, who's number one? I would like to point out that Pavetta in the postseason was electric.

Number one, I would say was my first Pavetta. And that would be Ethan Martin. That's the number one, Ethan Martin. I loved Ethan Martin. Did he even make it to the majors, Ethan Martin? Yes, he did. If you're looking for high spin fastballs, and this is before, Ethan Martin. Did he even make it to the majors? Yes, he did. If you're looking for high spin fastballs,

and this is before Rapsodo, that dude had a nasty fastball. I think I actually went back and watched some Ethan Martin highlights the other day. I was justified for liking Ethan Martin. He was good, man. Ethan Martin played in the majors in 2013 and 2014.

He played in 17 games in his career. I remember all of them. Yes, I'm sure you do. Would you like to take a guess? Hold on. Let me get over here. Yes. Let's see.

What was his career ERA? Your guy, Ethan Martin. 8.4. No, that's too high. 593. Very, very, very, very, very impressive. But what you're saying is they should have given more chances. Oh, clearly.

I mean, 51 strikeouts and 44 innings. Dude, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I was, if this podcast was around in that in 2013, it would have just been Ethan Martin over and over. If this podcast was around in 2013, it would have just been Ethan Martin over and over. 43 hits and 44 innings to go along with 29 walks. Last impressive.

Is that bad? Is that bad? It's a 1-6-3 career whip. So, yeah, that's good. That's good. Well, you can prove that stuff. I think he would have figured it out. He just needed more time.

Right. Well, listen. He's still only 32, Jack. Really? Bring him back. Let's see if he's still kicking around in the morning. There's no way. He hasn't played professional baseball since 2015.

He might be overseas or something, but in terms of baseball reference page, it ends at 2015. Yikes, man. Should we see if he'll come? If he had had the power of Jack Fritz behind him, I mean, look where Nick Bavetta is, a playoff hero. Just saying. Should we see

if Ethan will come on the podcast? Sure. Tell him, yeah. I mean, what the hell else does Ethan Martin have going on that he can't come on a podcast where someone's going to tell him that he was their favorite player at one point or another? That would never happen to Ethan Martin. It will never happen to Ethan Martin again. It's a one-time opportunity for him.

Will we mention Ethan Martin again on this podcast? I hope not, man. I don't know. Dude, all I'm saying is I'm just thinking back to the summer nights of 2013. I just graduated high school. Oh, buddy. It was my summer out of college. It's nice weather.

I watched some Ethan Martin starts, and I was like, I believe in that guy. I still believe in him. I really enjoyed the top five. I think this is really fun. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. I still believe in you, Ethan. I want you to know that yeah you're the one you're the one you were always the one you're the one the whole time that's amazing that's right all right uh it definitely feels

like we're at take back time it feels so take back time yeah it does i think we kind of already have the thing i think we don't think that have the take. I think that's okay. Yeah, it's good. I think that's okay. No, I'll do this. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do this podcast. Whatever.

Yeah, just do it. Just do it. The only thing I have in the take bag is that there's a bunch of top 10 prospects lists that have come out in the last two weeks, like baseball perspectives, I think fan graphs, I think baseball America. But they don't really matter until Fritz gives his top 10 fellas prospects. baseball perspectives, I think fan graphs, I think baseball America, but they don't really matter until Fritz gives his top 10 Phillies prospects.

Oh, buddy. So I have them here for your pleasure. Oh my god, you have them here now? Yes, of course. Oh my goodness. Of course. Of course. Now, let me just say this. Is that like, alright, I took out like Veerling Moniak, like I took let me just say this is that like alright

I took out like Veerling, Moniak I took those guys out because like those guys are already major league guys if you're already reached the major league it's hard for me to like the prospect thing kind of wears off I know they're technically still prospects I think Fangraphs had Veerling number 5

which is awesome but it's just like I look for upside, and I'm taking the major league guys out of that. So that's my qualifier. I agree with you on this, by the way. I'm good with that. Yeah. So if you don't hear those names, that's why.

Number one is Mick Abel, who I think about a lot. And I think about his first start, and I start getting emotional, and I need him to figure out his command a little bit. But it's still, like, I think it was one of these draft prospects, maybe prospect or draft sites, prospect live maybe. Like, they've ranked the high school arms the last five years, and Mick Abel had the number two fastball and the number two slider. And it's like, I just got giddy.

So Mick Abel, number one. Love it's like i just got giddy so mick abel number one love it number two hopefully up this year hopefully dd is somewhere else let's say that and we have bryson stott who again simply simply cannot wait for all in. Yeah, Stott's your guy. Yeah, let's go with that. Number three is Johan Rojas, who, again, another guy. Ooh, back. Another guy who I cannot wait for his debut at Sissons Bank Park. Also, in doing some Instagram story scouting, like per usual, looking like he started to develop some lift on his swing which is a very

exciting um i do worry about the hit tool like just you know i i worry about like a 230 hitter or whatever but the power's starting to develop um number four is griff mcgary i'm probably higher on griff than almost anyone else in the country but i don't care i think that guy's gonna be the next roy oswald i think he is disgusting and i'm so glad the phil almost anyone else in the country, but I don't care. I think that guy's going to be the next Roy Oswald. I think he is disgusting, and I'm so glad the Phillies drafted him in the fifth round. Number five is Andrew Painter, who apparently had 100 in an introduction,

which is very exciting, but I can't lie and say I was a big Painter guy because I'm not still a ginormous. And because you put him on your list of the guys you didn't want them to draft on our podcast. So it would be pretty easy for people to dispute that. Do not, don't lie. We don't lie to high hopes.

That's true. I had him on my list of don't want them to draft. We'll talk myself into him when they draft him. Yes, that is, you are correct. Thank you. That is correct. Thank you. I just don't want you to lie.

I don't want you to, I don't want people to. No, that's true. Right. I was painting you in the corner so i apologize number six number six is my left fielder in 2023 and that is ethan wilson who is going to hit here forever and better yes better than ethan martin hopefully um better better is, pal. Is Ethan Wilson. Number seven is a guy who I am just praying they turn into a reliever because I think he'd be locked down, and that is Francisco Morales who has two wiped out pitches

that they just need to convert to a reliever and just stop with this whole, you know, the whole starter thing. Number eight is a guy who put up monster power numbers last year, and i can't wait to see what he does this year also are we making a high hopes trip to the redding phil's versus lehigh valley iron pigs game on april 3rd or no no well there's no baseball we're there pal

oh yeah it's the day before my wife's 40th birthday so i'll have to see what i got going on but yeah all right i'm there uh jaylen jaylen ortiz is the name who again like last year's a really positive step forward and i want to see him continue on the upward trajectory there number nine is a guy who fell off a little bit last year or a couple years ago the prospect rankings but still like hard not to believe in the talent and that is louise garcia and number 10 is logan oh happy who when jt's out of here in a couple years is hopefully going to be the catcher so that's the jack for its top 10 prospect i thought it was a very good list um but an outrage that my guy casey martin wasn't on there well he, he is not. He is not it. Superstar.

Casey Martin. I don't think so. I liked him. I watched like 45 seconds of highlights of him when he got drafted. I've never left. I'm all in on Casey Martin. He wasn't even in my top 20. Thanks, Jack. Thanks a lot, buddy.

All right? Thanks a lot. You got anything else? I gotta put my daughter to bed. Who was wearing a Casey Martin shirt which probably isn't worth anything anymore. Thanks. I have nothing else. Okay. Oh, wait. Hold on. Are we doing the draft thing?

We're gonna do it next time. So we're pushing it out. No, no, no. Wait, hold on. Are we doing the draft thing? We're going to do it next time. So we're pushing it out. Unless you want to do it now. No, no, no. We can. No, no, no. The first pick, but let's just do it next week. I just got the hurry up text from Emily, so I feel like I should move it along.

She's usually very chill about it, and you just exit hurry up. Love it. Okay, so let's hurry up. We'll do it next time. No, hold on. I have one more thing i want to talk about okay no i'm just kidding you can go i knew you were i knew you were um last thing i'll ask you the next time we do the bud we'll basically be back no no that's the things will be worse so we'll do our all-time police draft and it'll be fun or at least we'll start it i can't wait sure we'll keep pushing it any final? Did I ask you final thoughts already?

Hmm. Is there anything I can do that can pick up the next three minutes? This is great, man. So you can, so you can, so Emily can be more mad at you. Um,

yeah, great. I don't know. Um, so no, so no. Still thinking I've been really into 80s movies recently

Cool Currently working my way through 80s 90s movies Everyone tweet it for your favorite 80s movie There's a list of all the 80s movies I don't think about that Chris doesn't die Just don't waste my time with The Breakfast Club.

What an awful movie. It's okay. I'm not a huge Breakfast Club guy, but it's fine. I don't think it's even fine. Watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I've seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Just throwing 80s movies out there. Back to the Future? Ferris Bueller's Day Off is

also not as funny as people think it is. Have you watched Back to the Future? No. I should watch Back to the Future. You should watch it. It's a great movie. I know. It's great stuff. Yeah, no. Alright. Well, I guess I'll let you go now. But thank you. That's really good stuff.

I'm serious though. Everyone tweet it for it's your favorite AIDS movie. Just one. Pick your favorite AIDS movie and tweet it for it. And let's see how many of these we can get in a while. What do you think about that? I'll do it. I'm always looking for something almost every night. I know you are.

All right. I'm actually really good to go now. You spread some sauce over here.