High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Jimmy Rollins Is Not A Hall of Famer | WIP Daily

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

Joe Giglio breaks down the case for Jimmy Rollins missing out on the Hall of Fame. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether the action is at the link or the bank, there's never an off day on Broad Street. It's the biggest news of the day, every day, with takes from someone who's never short on them. It's WIP Daily with Joe Giglio. Welcome on in, WIP Daily, Joe Giglio with you. Appreciate everyone listening, subscribing, following the podcast. Of course, our YouTube page, 94WIP. Check it out. Subscribe.

There are a ton of video content for you, especially the video podcast with myself and Tucker. All right, so today, as we really get close now to the announcement of the Baseball Hall of Fame next month, I wanted to dive into the case for Jimmy Rollins. Chase Utley is a guy that I do believe is a Hall of Famer and will one day be a Hall of Famer, even though he may not have the counting stats. Jimmy Rollins, and it's really interesting to see the two of them on the ballot

now together after all those years playing such a dynamic duo in the middle infield for the Phillies. Now they're on the ballot together. Jimmy Rollins is kind of the opposite kind of case to Chase Utley. Jimmy Rollins has the counting stats. Jimmy Rollins is kind of the opposite kind of case to Chase Utley. Jimmy Rollins has the counting stats. Jimmy Rollins has some markers. You say, hmm, that's a Hall of Famer. Now his peak, his best, he wasn't as dominant. He didn't, you know, and I know he won an MVP, but he wasn't as dominant for a five-year stretch historically as Chase Utley. His case, I think, will actually be more interesting as the years go on. Utley is going to be a case of old school versus new school. I think Rollins is as well, but the opposite. I

don't think new school is going to love Jimmy Rollins. I think old school will. And you factor in, let's say Chase goes eventually. Will they want to put Jimmy Rollins in as his partner in the Hall of Fame? You know, the Trammell and Whitaker combination with the Tigers in the 80s, it's a similar kind of thing of the two guys together and their cases intertwined in a weird way. Let's dive into the Rollins stuff here. So Jimmy Rollins obviously has some big-time markers for the Hall of Fame. Before we dive in, just to give you an update,

I'm recording this on Tuesday the 26th. That's when I'm doing this episode right now. It'll be in your feed shortly. And so there's a tracker. It's called Not Mr. Tibbs is the guy. That's his name on X or Twitter or whatever. And Ryan Thibodeau is his actual name. He tracks all of this, the Hall of Fame votes as they come in. Basically, people have a vote. They'll sometimes put up their ballot. They'll screenshot it or tell everyone to write a column or whatever on who they voted for and why now you know you don't have to do that some outlets require their writers or you know whoever has these votes to do

that but not everyone does that and it's generally the people that put their vote out on the internet you know way before the the actual tally comes out they tend to be bigger hall of fame voters where they're more liberal with their Hall of Fame vote. They vote a lot of people in. And because, you know, the reality is if you do the opposite, if you have a small ballot, three or four guys, and, you know, vote for many people, then you're going to get roasted on the internet. People are going to say, oh, you hate this guy.

You take this guy's vote away. Take this woman's vote away. So people tend to be more liberal in their public ballots than the private ballots. So generally, when you see the percentages come out early in the balloting, by the time we get to the end, it will be a little bit less, you know, five to 10% less, maybe a little bit more on the actual ballot. So right now, 41 ballots are public as I sit here in front of this microphone. That's 11.2% of the ballots we know who people voted for. You need about 288 votes, that's 75% for of this microphone, that's 11.2% of the ballots we know who people voted for. You need about 288 votes. That's 75% for induction this year. Just to give you a little sample,

Chase Utley, as I sit here and do this, is at 53% so far. That to me means he's going to be in the 40s. He won't be there this year, but he's on a very good track as a first-time guy for the Hall of Fame. To give you an example, this is Gary Sheffield's final chance. 10th time. He's at 69.8%. I think that means chefs could have come in a little bit less than 75, maybe 63, 64 and not make it. Billy Wagner, ninth, next year will be his 10th last chance. He's at 67.4. Very similar to chef. I not, we'll see about Wagner. That's going to be a tricky one at the end. Um, to give you an example here, Joe Maurer, 76.7%. I think Joe Maurer is a Hall of Famer. Incredible, incredible offensive player at the catcher position.

He's at 76.7% publicly. That to me means he's probably going to just miss the Hall of Fame this year, maybe make it next year or whatever. So that's just Todd Helton at 83.7% in his sixth year. He's going to be right on the border. He might make it this year, might not. Adrian Beltran, 97.7. He's a lock Hall of Famer.

So now that we have that in, right now, Jimmy Rollins is at 18.6%. I give him a very little chance to make the Hall of Fame this year on his third chance to, you know, third time in the running. He made it, he got last year 12.9%. So a little uptick this year. Let's say he finishes at 13 or 14%, little uptick. He's got, you know, he's got the seven more years in the ballot to get there. So as far as Rollins goes,

here's what he has that is the good, okay? He was a tremendous fielder. I think his defense will come into play here. You know, what do we have? We have one, two, three, four gold gloves. He could have won more gold gloves. He was that good of a fielder. I think his defense will come into play here. You know, what do we have? We have one, two, three, four gold gloves. He could have won more gold gloves. He was that good of a fielder. He's the only shortstop in the history of Major League Baseball with 200 home runs and 400 stolen bases. A big, nice round counting number, okay? He has all those kind of things. 231 home runs for a shortstop is obviously very good. You know, he's got 470 steals. He was part of a championship

team. He has an MVP. You know, people always talk about Black steals. He was part of a championship team. He has an MVP. You know, people always talk about Black Ink. If you go to baseball reference, Black Ink means you led the league in a category for that year. How much Black Ink? Just go check out Barry Bonds' baseball reference page if you're bored one day. It's all Black Ink. I mean, it's every year. It's like five or six categories. He just leads the league. He was the best player I've ever seen. And Rollins has some of those, mostly games, played appearances at bats. He was a very, very durable player. And then of course, you know, triples in the league four times, the league in stolen bases. The one time

he had the incredible year in 2007 with the MVP with the 20 stolen bases, 20 triples, 38 doubles, 30 home runs, 212 hits, 41 stolen bases. It really is just a remarkable season for Jimmy Rollins. He helped change the Phillies franchise. He was the first one to come up and eventually became Utley and eventually came Hamels and Howard. But he really, you go back to 2001 when he was third in rookie of the year and got MVP votes as a rookie. He really started to change

this franchise and what they could be. And there's a ton of credit for that. He's the all-time hits leader in really a franchise that's been around a very, very long time in the Philadelphia Phillies. That counts for something. So I think Jimmy Rollins has an interesting case. He got 9.4% in his first year in the ballot, 12.9% last year. I think he's probably trending towards the 13% to 15% range this year. So a little bit of an uptick in the voting. And I think he's going to be a guy that as time goes on, will certainly have a shot to make the Hall of Fame, maybe a Veterans Committee guy. But here's my overarching thing on Jimmy Rollins. I don't believe he is a Hall of Famer. I thought he's one notch below.

I think about Jimmy similar. I think about Donovan McNabb in the NFL and a pro football. I think he's just one notch below the Hall of Fame. And you might say, Joe, you said you like Utley for the Hall of Fame. Why not Rollins? Comparable, similar players. Well, a couple of things. Utley's peak, better.

His five, seven-year stretch, better. He was a top two or three or four player in baseball. I didn't think Rollins was that for an extended period. And two, Rollins has to fight the fact that there's just more great shortstops than there are second basemen. Second baseman's an easier position to stand out. Historically, shortstop is not.

So all time, okay, all time in terms of the shortstop position, Jimmy Rollins ranks 34th in Jaws. And Jaws is kind of a combination of your peak versus your longevity. He's 34th, okay? His all-time, all time for shortstops. The average Hall of Famer at the shortstop position, 67.7 wins above replacement. You know, Honus Wagner, A-Rod, top of the class, over 100. You want to move A-Rod a third, it's whatever, but he was obviously a great shortstop. Cal Ripken, 95. George Davis, Archie Vaughn, you got to go back in the day. Robin Yount, 77. Ozzie Smith, 76. Jeter, 71. Barry Larkin, 70. People like to compare the Barry Larkin case to Jimmy Rollins. Their war isn't even close. Barry Larkin, 70. People like to compare the Barry Larkin case to Jimmy Rollins.

Their war isn't even close. Barry Larkin clears him by 23 wins. Okay, so then you go down to, all right, who is the company that Jimmy Rollins is keeping with a 47.6 war? Okay, here are the company he keeps. Jim Fregosi, 48.7. Miguel Tejada, 47.1, contemporary. Omar Vizquel, who was trending that way, and then a whole bunch of stuff happened with him, and that had nothing to do with baseball, but it kind of did at the same time, and he's just kind of been blackballed.

He's at 45.6. I didn't think Omar was a Hall of Famer. Tony Fernandez, 45-3, outstanding player. I like Tony Fernandez a lot. I thought he was one notch below a Hall of Famer. Then there's the Tulewitzki, who is contemporary, and Nomar, a little bit contemporary. Those guys were, Tulewitzki's the back end of Jimmy, Nomar the front end of Jimmy. I thought at their best, both Tulewitzki and Nomar were better players, like at their best. Now,

Jimmy had more longevity than those guys, but I thought they were better players than him at their very, very best. I mean, Nomar hit.370, Tulewitzki was an amazing player. Francisco Lindor, catching up on Jimmy here, he's going to pass him in the next few years. Marcus Simeon, similar. Correa. So, you know, if you go to the last 25 years of baseball, where does Jimmy rank among shortstops? Okay, you have to, obviously, he's behind Derek Jeter.

Let's go through the last 30 years. A-Rod, Ripken, Jeter, Larkin. That's four that are, you know, last 30 years better. And then he's in that category next with Tejada, with Vizquel, with Fernandez, with Tolowitzki, with Garcia Parra, with Lindor, Simeon, Correa, Bogarts, Hanley Ramirez, Jose Reyes, who fell off a cliff, but very similar in terms of high impact to Jimmy Rollins when they were out there together. So he's in that group. And one thing that stands out about Jimmy, when you kind of look at his career, is the fight. And I think this will be part of the fight with his people on the ballot, want to put them, don't want to put them on.

Between his counting stats, I mentioned 231 home runs, 2,455 hits versus rate stats. He was a 264 hitter. Nothing special. Not bad. You can make a haul of him at 264, but not special. His OBP was 324. Again, that's not close to outstanding. I mean, in his career, he had, let's see how many years he had over a 330 on base. One, two, three, four, five, six. Six out of 17 years over 330. Again, 330 is not anything to write home about. That's just good. His slugging percentage, 418. Very nice for a shortstop. His OPS, 743. His adjusted OPS was 95, which is below average. was 95, which is below average. The OPS plus, you know, among the shortstop position, you know, you look at that, I think I'd pull that up overall, where he ranked there. I mean, it's not overwhelming. MVP shares, shortstop. Jimmy Rollins ranked, and that's with an MVP, 31st among shortstop ever.

Okay? In terms of top five in war in the league, okay? Jimmy Rollins ranked, see if I can find him on this list. How many times was he top five in the league in war in his career? Like a top five player in the sport. This is a top ten. How often was Jimmy Rollins a top ten player in the sport in any year? Jimmy Rollins on this list,

let's see how many times he cleared that bar. A top 10, yeah, here he is. 79th on this list. He was once, by wins above replacement, a top 10 player in the sport. Now to give you a little example on that, A-Rod did it 10 times, Honus Wagner 14. But again, you don't have to do that.

This is what I mean by, you know, peak. Cal Ripken, six times. Garcia Parra was six times. And then, you know, his career fell off. Robin Yount, five times. Barry Larkin, five times. Ozzie Smith, five times. Alan Trammell, five times.

Tolowitzki, four times. Simeon's got there now already three times. Tatis has been there three. Correa, three. And, you know, obviously, Tatis has a long runway. Correa three. And obviously Tatis has a long runway to go. He's not even a shortstop anymore. Hanley was twice. Trey Turner's been twice. And you guys don't think about Trey Turner and all that kind of stuff. So I think the longevity helps Jimmy Rollins without a question. Longevity helps Jimmy Rollins. The fact that he was the heartbeat, you could say, of a championship Phillies team, of a team that was a dominant force in the National League, certainly helps Jimmy Rollins' case. The hits helped Jimmy Rollins' case. An MVP helps Jimmy Rollins' case. I just think he's one notch short of the Hall of Fame. I've always thought that about him. Good offensive player, not an overwhelming offensive player. I actually think the best thing about him, it's not played up enough, is his defense. I thought he was robbed of more goal gloves. I

thought he was a tremendous, tremendous fielder with a great arm at the shortstop position. He just kind of had a weird run where when he came in, he wasn't the best shortstop. Other guys were better. And then he kept going. And then by the middle towards the end of his career, he was still at the best shortstop because other guys were better. He just kind of outlasted everyone and had a really long career at the position, which most guys do not. I mean, the fact that he played the shortstop position till his mid thirties is a feather in his cap. And, you know, if we go to probably games played at the shortstop position as a primary shortstop, he likely has that in the bag. But here's the last thing that hits me and why I don't think he's going to make the Hall of Fame and why I would not vote him for the Hall of Fame.

He only made the All-Star game three times. Isn't that crazy when you think about it? Like, we think of Jimmy Rollins as a star. And we think of Jimmy Rollins as a, you know, really special player at that position where he was recognized during his time. Three All-Star games. Just put that in perspective. Starling Castro made four. He couldn't play. He's without the position to play at second base. Corey Seager's already made four. Reyes made four. Bogarts four. Lindor four. Larry Boa made five. Edgar Renteria made five. Jim Fregosi made six back in his day. You know, you've got Michael Young made seven All-Star games. So I think we have, in a sense, overrated him a little bit with the Hall of Fame stuff.

It'll be a fascinating case. I won't be mad if he makes that. I loved watching Jimmy Rollins play. I just don't feel strongly about this one, and I can't vote him in. I would not vote Jimmy Rollins into the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. I appreciate everyone listening, subscribing, following WIP Daily. Hope everyone has a great New Year. Enjoy all the football this coming

weekend. NFL Picks will be in your feed later this week. Hopefully a winning week in Week 17. Enjoy some family time. Enjoy some Christmas time, New Year's time, all the great stuff that happens around this time of the year. We will talk very soon. The Midday Show returns on January 2nd. We'll have a whole lot to talk about heading into the final week of the NFL season and, of course, the NFL playoffs.

Appreciate you guys listening, subscribing, following WIP Daily.