High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Let Us Believe, Bring Us Theo

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz react to Theo Epstein stepping down from his role with the Cubs and the prospect of him coming to the Phillies. The guys geek out over the possibility of Theo and the impact it would have for John Middleton and the franchise. James and Jack also discuss the hiring of Caleb Cotham and much more. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yo! Theo! It is another edition of the iOS podcast. What do you think of that, Jack? Did that work? Theo. Whoa. It feels like a little bit too much.

There's not even one credible source that Theo's coming from. I would go so far as to say, I think it is highly, highly unlikely it comes here, but Theo. Yeah. Yeah. But, but let us just say this.

If there ever is a Theo Epstein is a, is the Philadelphia Phillies president of baseball operations slash probably have to be partial owner. Um, that's the type of reaction the Phillies could get. So, I mean, it's really, this is on the Phillies now. I mean, do they want us singing Theo to the Lido shuffle by Boss Gags? Yeah.

Do they want James coming out and saying instead of yo, it's just Theo? Yeah, that's what it would be for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like, do they want this level of excitement when it's coming around to their baseball team? I would think so. Remains to be seen, Jack. Remains to be seen.

Right. So, listen, if they want that kind of reaction, that was a little bit what we call in the biz a sneak peek. So, all right, let's just go right into it. We can talk about my wallet. What else do you want to talk about? Is there anything else you wanted to really break down? My wallet. Do you want to break down the Rule 5 protections? Just my wallet. We'll talk about my wallet later. What else do you want to talk about? Is there anything else you wanted to really break down? My wallet. My wallet.

The Rule 5 protections? Just my wallet. We'll talk about that later. Oh, you're not over this wallet thing, are you? All right. Can you just tell, before we get to Theo, just talk about the wallet situation. Because you're not even close to being over it. And I just want everyone to clear the air and everyone to understand that me and James are going through a rough patch right now.

No, we're all good. I actually have completely forgiven Jack. I just want to give him some crap for it because I left my wallet at work today and I didn't know I left my wallet at work today so I came home and I find out my wallet's not there and anyone who's had that experience knows it's terrifying and you're sick to your stomach and you're like oh my god all my credit cards my cash my license this whole my insurance card, all this stuff. And I call Jack and I'm thinking, OK, like, where have I been? I was I was in the studio.

You called. No, you called the person that you trusted the most. I did. I called Jack and I said, Jack, you're there. I trust you. You're my dude, my guy, my best friend here. Like, can you take a look in the studio directly across the hall from your studio just to see if maybe i dropped my wallet there and jack

goes puts me you know he's kind of like talking and he's doing his job to be fair jack was producing his show and i hear him you know doing stuff wherever and sub-rever, and he, like, comes back on, and he's like, yeah, yeah, I don't see it, and I'm like, you know, bleep is basically what I'm doing, and I cancel a couple credit cards, you know, I put the ones on hold that I could put on hold, and I hop in my car, and I'm like, all right, well, I gotta go check the station, maybe it fell out somewhere else, whatever, I go to the station, and where's my wallet, Jack? Was it in the studio it was in the studio that i asked you to ask but you seemed contrite and actually felt bad so i have forgiven you and we are best friends again but i had to bring it up i had to bring it up yeah and let's just go to my side of the story uh oh you have a side of the story that differs

yeah so my side of the story is well i mean if you know anything about james i mean it goes from zero to frantic in in 0.05 seconds can't argue so quick trigger first first off first off we're in the middle commercial free which is which is you know we're on the air for the next, we say, a whole hour. Not even close to it. More like a half hour. And I get a frantic call in the middle. At 4.58, I was about to do the ID, but I set something up. I'm trying to take phone calls.

but I set something up. I'm trying to take phone calls. And it's never good to leave the studio in the middle of the segment because you're worried about someone cursing and something go wrong and then you'd be fired. And I would just like to say that I went physically into the other studio, didn't think to check on the ground, didn't know you left your wallet on the ground. I just fell out of my pocket.

Yeah, I feel like that's more of a you problem. And I would also like to say, in my defense, it feels like you were trying to get me fired, you know, if something went wrong. Okay, so quick question, quick question. Do your hosts have a dump button? Yeah, but John was at home. Oh, okay.

So is Ike a 10-year radio veteran? Is he capable of hitting the dump button if needed? No, he's not. That's why I had to be there. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, so, you know, listen, there's a big miscommunication on both sides. Okay, here's how I'll take it. I could have handled it if I were there, so i'll just go with i'm a better producer with you

than you and that'll be my takeaway from that is that fair if that if that hey if that helps you sleep at night and get up tomorrow morning then then go for it no it's all good i would but i was there was like a 10 minute window where i was like damn it jack i'm so annoyed with you and then i cooled down and then you texted apologizing and i was like you know what it's all good you said it wasn't worth breaking up the high hopes i thought about it i was like you know what we might have done our last i am angry but if you if you had to replace me on high hopes who was your first choice oh what a great i'm trying to think wow i can't believe you even thought about this

well i was trying to think of what, I can't believe you even thought about this. Well, I was trying to think of what answer could annoy you the most. I was like, you know, like someone else named Jack, I feel like, would do something to you. Oh, you're going to put Keffer on here? Yeah, like Jack Keffer, that would be a good replacement. I would just try to think of who would be the most annoying to you, and that would be my answer. Well, the answer would be John Middleton, but I don't think you could have him host this podcast with you.

We can get Clintock to do it. I mean, he should be free soon, right? Yeah, he's not that free. Andy McPhail, you think he could figure out the technology? No, Andy McPhail is such a dumb person that he wouldn't understand how to work. I'm shocked he was able to even be on that Zoom call. Someone definitely said that. It was like grandkids set it up for him or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he seems like a big Zoom with the grandkids guy. Oh, yeah, buddy. Yeah, for sure. For sure. From his Maryland home. Anyway, so anyway, the takeaway is we're good. We're good.

Hey, hey, let me just say this. I uprooted from my studio to go to the other studio. All right, let's talk, Theo. Let's talk, Theo. Let's get into this here. So obviously, like, the Theo news breaks that he's stepping down with the Cubs and we're all losing it. I did sprint into your studio.

You totally did. I went on the air with it. It was awesome. But now that you've had a few days to think about it, to talk to people, to get some information, whatever, where are you at with this? Listen, I got to be honest. I got to be honest.

Of course. What else would you do to the IOPs listeners? That's our policy. I know. I know. I felt a jolt of life. I really did. I felt like a jolt of-

It was like the paddles. You're laying there, heart's not beating, and someone comes up, the paddles right in there, and you're like, whoa. And honestly, we needed it. Like Uma Thurman in Pul and pulp fiction with the shot in the chest was she named today by the way in your side uh good point jack she was outstanding in that movie i mean yeah she's multiple movies damn near made the movie um good work there good work yeah honestly i thought it was gonna be your answer i was a little disappointed it was not. But, dude, it literally, because it just, it feels very Sixers and Maury-ish.

And I know I tweeted it at the time, but, like, it's the classic, perfect, it was like the Theo Epstein becoming available at this time is is like you're on the titanic right then the phillies are the titanic and oh buddy this is a perfect analogy yeah it's like i'm feeling you right now the phillies are the titanic just totally see it i'm with you just speeding towards that iceberg like that iceberg is full steam ahead. And Andy McPhail's the ship captain. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Going right at it. Yeah. Yeah. And they just crush the iceberg. And the unsinkable ship, aka the sleeping giant that is the Philadelphia Phillies, crushes the iceberg. Just water everywhere. And what happens? There's a lifeboat. There's a, there's a lifeboat that you could just jump on and you can survive. And that is Theo Epstein. Theo Epstein is the lifeboat to the Titanic for this Philadelphia Phillies organization. And like, I understand, I understand that he's not a Philly yet

but um but in my mind Theo Epstein's already the Phillies president like I don't care I've been so dead inside and I know that you know I've had some Theo takes in the past and I I would like them fully scrubbed from the internet I feel like i've been here before yeah we've been here before with you yeah first it was gerardi whatever um he it's just such it's such a lifeboat you know middleton i don't think knows what he's doing obviously yeah take the i don't think out let's just say middleton doesn't know what he's doing right so so middleton doesn't know what he's doing like even even the dumbest owner in sports like aka josh harris could could figure out that the web scene makes your baseball team better like he just does um i mean let's real quick i don't think i can let you do that josh harris is a

better owner than john middleton right now he has to earn that back we cannot rip josh harris like that so no i i agree but i still think but I still think he's a dumb sports owner. Yes, he is. Clearly a bright guy, but not a smart sports owner. I agree. Right, and he saw a guy like Daryl Moore become available. Saw a guy like Doc Rivers become available. And he's like, oh, all it's going to cost me is money?

Sure, no problem. Here's the money. Let's go. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Just money? Cool. That's great.

Terrific. I don't have to do anything? I don't money cool that's great terrific i don't have to do anything i don't have to hear these philly fans complain and and bitch in it oh really oh yeah yeah that guy sure let's go he's the best i want the best give me the best how much 10 million a year no problem that's easy no problem exactly so it's it's literally just such a godsend and you know then they're they're leaking to to stark and whatnot about how they want a Joe Girardi type to be in their front office, a guy who's won before and all of that. And they have moved towards the analytics, data, player development side stuff.

So Theo's the perfect kind of mix of that stuff. I think Theo's still a smart guy. I think that he's been smart guy. You know, I think that he's been passed by guys like Eric Neander and Andrew Friedman. Um, and even high. Um, I think is past them and turn off, turn off.

Yes. All those guys. Uh, but Theo's still like an elite executive in this game. And anytime, I mean, listen, he's,

he's still only 46. He, he's erased 200 years worth of curses. And I do think that a new challenge presents not just motivation, but a breath of fresh air for people. I think that even if he's gotten a little stale, I think a new challenge could invigorate him, so to speak. Right, and ultimately, he's a guy that wants to be surrounded by smart people,

and he believes in the data. And I think he's a guy that wants to be surrounded by smart people and he believes in the data. And I think that's all that matters. You know, like like I see a lot of the a lot of the beat guys and whatnot. Whenever they're brought on or they're talking about the Phillies, they're like, oh, you know, the name like Brian Sabian. And like in 2015, Brian Sabian is like a great idea. But you're not you're not catching the Dodgers. You're not catching the Rays. You're not catching these advanced teams by hiring Brian Sabian. Like I, I'm so sorry to everyone that wants the old school scouting game back, but it's not coming back. Like if anything is going more in the direction of the Rays and Dodgers and, and teams

like that, like you're not, you're not catching those teams by, by, by going more in the direction of the Rays and Dodgers and teams like that. You're not catching those teams by going back to the old school way of thinking. Yeah, Brian Sabian was a great architect of teams. A Hall of Famer. He's a Hall of Famer. I mean, he will be. He should be. He's a Hall of Fame exec.

I mean, three-time World Series champion. And in 2015, that's a great hire, you know? But the game's changed so much. Like, even hiring Pat Gillick today would be stupid. Like, and Pat Gillick's one of the best executives of all time. Literally. Literally. Yeah.

Like, I would put him top five, potentially, of all time. Like, certainly top ten, without question. And I totally agree. It's just that the game's just moved in such a direction where those guys are dinosaurs and if you don't if you don't hop on board then you're going to be left behind and Theo while I think he's not as ahead of the curve as he was like he was like the the Cubs pitching lab um in circles of baseball I mean it was starting to become a real thing I mean just get guys in the Cubs pitching lab and and let's ride and and theo understood the importance of player development and stuff

like that and like there's and i feel like it's it's mostly my fault james you would you would agree that it's mostly my fault that people i don't even know what you're gonna say but i'm just gonna say yes i agree yeah because they're as soon as the theo news came out it was like oh i don't know he's overrated he hasn't really done anything this is people's fault for listening to you instead of me who's sitting here for years saying theo's the greatest executive in the history of sports the greatest achievement in the history of my lifetime sports wise and you're like i don't like him and everyone's like oh he stinks yeah people listen to you that's what it is jack maybe they'll learn i'm pretty

persuasive pretty persuasive um but no like and listen i do think theo has gotten a bit overrated like i think he's in a in a sense he has gotten overrated it's just that for me when it comes down to theo or the other names we've heard it's's like, please God, just send me Theo. It doesn't seem like Neander's going to happen. He's 20 years younger than the other names. It's crazy. And he's not even Andy McPhail's friend, which is a problem. Because he's not going to be

recommended to John Middleton. But you see the Sabians, the Ned Collettis, Jim Hendrys. Dan Duquette no and I love and I love Scott Lauper like I I genuinely love Scott Lauper but like Dan Duquette if they hire Dan Duquette we're becoming a raised podcast like we're we're out I'm not I'm not dealing with Dan Duquette no tribe talk we're talking Indians whatever it takes whatever it takes but um

like when it comes to those names or Theo it's like dude just giveians whatever it takes whatever it takes but um like when it comes to those names or theo it's like dude just give theo whatever it takes and let's hope he let's hope he continues to figure it out because it doesn't seem like neander's gonna happen churn off although i mean you saw today about uh okay they can't do it well we're trying to be positive we've done a bunch of sad pods this is at least there's some positivity here yeah yeah now i mean at least look the last time we talked they weren't even searching for gm so like yay all right yeah two things uh it's cohen uh shut it down on twitter but i don't fully believe it that means yeah it means and and two it's like like look turn off hasn't left yet and he's had every opportunity he could possibly have.

He's from New York. His dad works at WIP, you know, at Intercom. Like, he's a legend in radio. Well, he doesn't work at WIP. He works at WFAN. Excuse me, WFAN. Jesus, Jack, what am I doing? WFAN, thank you, is a legend.

So, like, he does have the ties and the connections, but he hasn't left yet. So, I mean, that does say something. Um, definitely. Uh, it's, it's definite. And like,

it's just so funny. Why did the Phillies all of a sudden decide to start ramping up their GM search? Because they were tired of people making fun of them. Sadly, that's the reason. It's the only thing that makes any sense. They saw eight trillion

uproot in the middle pandemic jokes and they were like saw the angels go out and get you know the number two a smart guy they they're like you know all right we thought we thought people would buy this like we thought this this would be okay and it's like oh we were wrong clearly and we've been proven wrong and we can't do this because we look like fools. You know, I think that's what it was. I mean, again, like you said, the Buster Olney article we read last time and people call them simple minded around the league. Like, you know, I think that I look, John Middleton has shown that he will listen, you know, for better or worse, like he will at least, he at least hears what's out there

and is influenced by what's out there. I mean, they've been a joke for a few weeks now so i think they probably saw what a joke they were and they were like all right well i guess we you know can't do this like this is not being received the way we thought it would because we were stupid to think it would be you know i mean there's one big uh ah damn damn, they caught us. They got us again. They figured it out. But look, I think all your points about Theo, I think regardless of the fact that maybe he's not the top executive in the sport anymore, he's still an insanely smart man who knows how to run organizations,

has three World Series under his belt by the age of 46, obviously including ending the two longest streaks of our lifetime in baseball. And he's a guy who knows how it works and knows how to run a team. And like you said, wants smart people around him, is going to put smart people in positions of power and is going to listen to smart people. And I think that's all huge stuff. I think that in the situation the Phillies are in, he's it.

Like, especially from what Middleton and McPhail have done and what we were just kind of talking about with the uproot and the pandemic thing and, you know, the kind of laughingstock that the Phillies have become, particularly here in Philadelphia, but also nationally, as Buster Olney pointed out, and what teams around the league are saying about them. Like, and I've said this multiple times times and obviously it's it's not rocket science but but again like theo epsine is the one single solitary move that changes everything like it completely and totally flips the narrative

about your team nationally locally like there is no other move that john middleton can make like he can flip us like thad levine let's go we're in we're ready to roll we're with you john let's move but like thad levine's not getting the city on board thad levine's not getting i mean some national writers and stuff but like you know people aren't like losing their minds like theo is the kind of move where from a optics perspective, which clearly John Middleton cares about, again, Todd Zalewski's frigging pole. Like, I think that Theo's the one move he can make in an instant. And like that, everything changes. All of it.

Every little bit of it. So I think they're interested. Here's my thing, Jack. And we sit here on Thursday, the night of Thursday, November 19th. Like, Jack. And we sit here on Thursday, the night of Thursday, November 19th. Personally, and I'm not – I think that the Phillies will make a run at Theo. I think they'll take a shot. I just don't see what the Phillies offer Theo that he's leaving, stepping down from another organization. I think that like,

first and foremost, I think he wants to be in our, so I will say off the top, I don't think there is any chance in hell in anything that Theo is coming here unless they give him ownership percentage. Like that's the only chance he's coming here. But my best guess of what Theo wants to do and reading the tea leaves and having a couple buddies who work in the hedge fund world and all that type of stuff. I think he wants to front an ownership group. And I know people have said that. I think he wants to front, be the front man of his own ownership group. And I think he wants to either go buy a team like the Rays or start an expansion franchise, which we know baseball has been thinking about and talking about.

I think he wants to buy the Rays and move them to Nashville, buy the Rays and move them to Mexico, or do something like flat out just start an expansion franchise. But I would love Theo here. I think the Phillies should offer him ownership stock and do everything they can, and maybe that could work. I mean, it is a big market, and it's a new challenge. But I just feel like Theo, after leaving the Cubs, thing they can and maybe that could work I mean it is a big market and it's a new challenge but I just feel like Theo after leaving the Cubs after doing what he's done for so long after

ending the Cubs curse ending the Red Sox curse and then ending the freaking Cubs curse like it's like I mean as much as we're losing his franchise of all time and all that like he comes to Philly we just won the World Series in 08 it's not like it's not like he's coming in and totally changing this dynamic thing like so unless middleton's willing to give him a significant portion of ownership stock ownership percentage i think theo is legitimately taking a year off and i think he's coming back next year to try and buy a franchise if i had to bet i'm not gonna let you get me down um i've already said i think he's going to let you get me down.

I've already said I think he's going to be the Phillies president, and I don't care what you say. Do you legitimately? What would the odds be? In your mind, where are the odds? In my mind, like 10%. I think that's about 10%. I would probably go five, but same general range. Yeah, yeah. I mean five, but like same general range. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that might even be high. But ultimately, it's going to come down to money and whether or not they want to pony up and pay whatever it takes to get Theo here. And that's still, like I still think money talks. And I understand about owning a team and then wanting to start a franchise and all that fun stuff. stand about owning a team and then wanting to start a franchise and all that fun stuff but like at the same time sure that'd be that'd be a new challenge and whatnot and buying the raise and and doing whatever and moving them around that's that's great that's great but it also sounds like

a a ton of work why not come to philadelphia and we'll give you some ownership stock you can have say in that you You can oversee everything. We're already a well-functioning franchise with a big budget. And you can hire guys underneath you to do the things and you can kind of oversee them. It's not even that I need Theo for the day-to-day. I need Theo for the big picture stuff. The big picture stuff. Of course.

And honestly, of course all honestly like you know there's so much there's of course all the mets fans are like oh stevie's gonna pay whatever it takes and all this stuff i don't think he's going to the mets i really i i don't think there's any chance he goes to the mets actually because like the steve cohen's not giving up ownership stock to have theo come in and they already have a president baseball operation so and i know sandy's only there for a year or two or whatnot but i it just doesn't it doesn't seem like a fit for me with the phillies at least at least in their situation they have a couple owners um that it would be it would kind of be easier to give up ownership stock rather than just have one singular owner and go from there um so i don't know i i just

i've had this weird feeling about theo for a while i thought the timing was weird and i thought it was like why he's giving this up a year early maybe he has something else up his sleeve and he may take a year off but i don't know like i still still, I think that, I think that if, if they pony up and pay whatever it takes to bring Theo in here, I think he's going to come. And I, I, I understand the ownership stuff, but I still think that I think Middleton would give up a little bit of the ownership stock, like all that stuff, whatever. Cause I think, I know, I know he's given us a lot of reason not to believe, but I think he wants to win. And I think that if he gets the right guy in here,

I think he'll get out of the way. And not totally out of the way because he's already so in the way, but Theo's the guy that he would get out of the way for. You know what I mean? Same hanky with the Sixers. It was like, yeah, it seems like he's doing the smart things. But as soon as they went 1-20, it was like all of a sudden everything's pulled. You know?

With Morey, there's a little bit of leeway. Like, he can sell to ownership. I know what I'm doing here, and I'll make these moves and whatnot. Like, that's how I feel about Theo. Theo's in the same kind of boat. So, yeah, I mean, it's definitely a long shot. I get it, but I don't think it's a 0% shot. And I think, I think that, I don't know what other major market job becomes available outside of the Mets, which obviously is a dream destination for most front office executives right now. Um, but again, if he wants, if he wants ownership stock, the Mets aren which obviously is a dream destination for most front office executives right now. But again, if he wants ownership stock, the Mets aren't it. And if it's not the Mets,

then what is it? Do you really want to buy your own team and start from scratch? I don't know. That seems a little much for me. So I don't know. I'm not giving up hope. I think it would be amazing. I think you you said this earlier it really would just energize the fan base and it's such a such a middleton move you know it's bryce two years ago it's gerardi last year and it would be theo this year the the three moves that can get everyone buzzing about the phillies again that's what middleton wants he wants he wants things to sell tickets and and theo would be the offseason thing this year that would sell tickets um but i don't know i i don't think it's a zero percent chance i think they're going to be aggressive i hope they're aggressive and honestly james if if they're not aggressive it's a it's a major problem it's a it's a major problem yeah a disaster i mean like you said i mean you pointed

out and daryl morey is obviously a a perfect comp because it's philadelphia so like it's very near and dear to what we're talking about in our hearts and all that but like like people like that don't come available in the moment when you need that particular guy very often. I mean, it is rare, particularly in basketball. I mean, it is very rare for someone like that to become available in the way he did. And for the Sixers to have the need they did. And again, for it to be the type of move that completely and totally changes a franchise around on a dime. Like where one moment you and your fan base are feeling rock bottom, and then the next moment it is everyone believes and you're all working towards a common goal.

Like it is that type of swing move. Like it's crazy. And the Phillies have that opportunity with Theo. And he's even into a—I don't think he's any more—you know, obviously what he's accomplished is more than Daryl Morey, but I think right in this moment, I think Daryl Morey's probably better at his job than Theo is at his. and move as big a move as Daryl Morey was, Theo's like 10 times that. Again, like Theo is the greatest executive in the history of sports, potentially. Like certainly has the greatest achievements in the history of baseball for an executive. Like that's it in terms of what he was able to accomplish. And he is a name that everyone knows because he accomplished those two unaccomplishable things.

Like, again, like, I know I said it before, but it's such a perfect way to put it. It's like the single one move that Middleton can make that completely and totally changes everything. Like, everything. Not just the future of your franchise, but how everyone thinks about you and your franchise in the moment immediately. Like, John Middleton goes from a pariah to a hero like that. It's over. It's not. John Middleton's a hero.

Like that's it, Jack. Like if he brings Theo in here, if he does what it takes, he's a hero. To your point, though, I wholeheartedly agree. Look, if he takes a big run at Theo, and we'll hear about it if that happens. You know we will. That's the way these things work. But if he... FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio

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Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Takes a big run at Theo, and Theo surfaces next year for running an ownership group. And what I've heard a little bit is right. And it does make sense from a next step perspective. Like, you know, Theo being the president of another team isn't new in a way.

Whereas, you know have 10, 15 million a year, whatever it is, I'll give you 5% of the team, like whatever it is. Like if he does not make that type of superstar top of the line, real deal offer, then you're right, Jack. Like that's a disaster. And it's unforgivable in a lot of ways. Which would be the biggest that you have seen accomplishment? Breaking the Red Sox curse, breaking the Cubs curse, or making Jon Middleton look smart?

Yeah, the last, latter, third. You think so? You think so? I mean, the Cubs is only 108 years of misery, and the Red Sox is 86. I, the last ladder third. You think so? You think so? I mean, the Cubs is only 108 years of misery, and the Red Sox is 86. I mean, that's nothing compared to Middleton. Right. Well, can we tell Theo that they have the most losses in franchise history? Well, it's true.

Yeah, we're losing a franchise in sports. That's something. Yeah, losing a franchise in sports history. The Philadelphia Phillies. I mean, just be figure out why theo all right like i know the cubs 108 years but let's be real the bulls won six freaking championships in the 90s we have two championships in 38 years here 37 years here two two in 37 years i'm i, I'm 39 years old, I'm sorry, yeah, two in 37, I'm 39 years old, like, I've seen two in my lifetime, like, granted, I was technically alive for the 836ers, but obviously, it was one, you know, and a half, or two, or whatever, one and a half, like, whatever, like, two championships

in 39 years, like, bleep that, man, like, that sucks. That stupid idiot kid in Boston with his stupid sign. I've seen 14 championships in my first 10 years alive. Whatever. It's like, screw you, kid. Screw you. I hate you. Get me Theo so I don't have to feel like that anymore. Is that fair?

I think it's fair. I think if you, do you want me to cut this and send it directly to Theo? Look, it's an impassioned argument. I mean, it's real. Yeah, and here's the thing, Theo. You helped make that kid's life come true. You created that kid. Like, create those kids here, Theo.

Think about that. Yeah, and this city deserves it more than Boston. Yeah, we're way better. We're way better than Boston. Alright, let's be real. Boston sucks. It's a crappy city. I'm just being straight. It's super uptight. It's not that much

fun. Boston sucks. You have a lot more fun here. We're way more passionate. We're a little intense but like it's it's all part of love it's all part of love it's all part of love so theo please and john extra please like just just get throw us a bone one time there's one time throw us a bone bring us bring us theo and like listen if he wants to be an owner, let him be a part owner.

Don't go buy a new team. That sounds like a lot of work. You don't want to work that hard. Just come here. Be the president slash owner. Hire another smart guy under you. Let that guy hire another smart guy under him. And let's ride.

Let's ride off into the sunset. Jack, I want to believe so bad. I want it to happen. So do I. So bad. So do I. Give me, like, I don't ask for much, right? I mean, we're only the most demanding Phillies podcast.

I know. We only ask for stuff all the time, but not that often. We're only the most demanding Phillies podcast. I know. We only ask for stuff all the time, but not that often. But it's really a podcast that's just trying to push the Phillies in the right direction. Yes. We just want to win.

We just want to be happy. Right. And I don't remember one malicious thing we've done with the Phillies when it comes to trying to make the team better. All we've done is point them in the right direction. Just please, just bring us Theo and don't mess around with the Jim Hendry, Brian Sabian, Ned Coletti's of the world. That's not going to make us happy. That's not going to give you the benefit of the doubt That's not going to do any of that

You want the benefit of the doubt Hire a Theo Epstein Pay whatever it takes to get Eric Neander Bring in Thad Levine Do that kind of stuff Don't bring these dinosaurs in here I got no interest in dinosaurs I got no interest in the dinosaurs that won this decade.

None of that matters. All that matters is the next step forward. And guess what? Brian Sabian, Ned Colletti, Jim Hendry, those names, they're not doing it. They're just not doing it. Erase all fear of not being a competitive franchise. Go get Theo.

And let's get this thing rolling, okay? That's my plea. That's my plea to the Phillies. Please. Please. Please. Please. I'm very with you, Jack.

All right. What else you got? What else should we get into is there is there anything else besides theo to talk about oh dude oh by the way oh by the way jack and i made a uh a decision uh that we have not told the listeners we are waiting until they hire somebody to do our perfect off-season podcast because it's kind of ridiculous otherwise so until they hire someone preferably theo we're waiting so it will be coming look we got some time nothing's gonna happen for a little while but yeah nothing's gonna happen forever but um i think the reason why we can wait is because we get also the judge the the the front office hiring you know if it's

theo or thad levine whatever that kind of stuff we gotta start adjusting our boards you know we gotta well yeah it depends on who they bring in and also let's be real who they hire will tell us something about how committed they are to you know winning baseball games and whatnot right right and if they hire a sabian colletti like we gotta start looking for the bargain bin dumb hirings that they're dumb signings. No, no, no. Yeah, no. So if they hire Sabian, it's our perfect raise off season that we're doing, right? Yes, yes. Because then we just pivot.

Then we just pivot. Raise pod. We start looking at modern things like pitch design. Oh, think about how many fun low under the radar trades we could come up with

if we were a raise pod. That'd be super fun. Oh, dude, if you signed Garrett Richards to a one-year like eight million dollar deal and watching him blossom into a superstar under their system like yeah stuff like that just fun stuff um james uh i i hate to say that um i'm disappointed in you um but i'm disappointed in you because no what are you disappointed i know because we're 37 37 minutes into this podcast and we have not discussed caleb copham yet oh that's actually really you know i was so excited about theo that is uh uh you're right i will i will own this just

like you did not own the wallet fiasco earlier, I will own this and say, my bad. Caleb, this is exciting. This is a look. I mean, it's been a crappy offseason so far. This is like the one good thing the Phillies have done. Tell everyone why you love this guy. And I'm so happy. I'm just, I've been giddy ever since the news came out about caleb cotham um caleb cotham

if you weren't going to go after the scott browns you know the big name pitching coaches out there like cotham is the guy and i i haven't and this is why i'm extra mad at you um i have not been able to talk about caleb cotham anywhere else you know, on Twitter. On Twitter, you know, no one really cares, you know. But I feel like on high hopes I could just nerd out for a second. Like, Caleb Cotham is such a perfect modern-day hire. You know, you saw the Yankees last year poach one of the Indians minor league pitching guys. And, yeah, that was a smart move. But he ultimately is a minor league pitching guys. And yeah, that was a smart move, but he ultimately is a minor league pitching development guy and whatnot.

The Phillies poached a legitimate assistant major league pitching coach from the Reds who, if you're paying any attention to baseball, they've turned into a bit of a pitching factory out there. I mean, not only was it Bauer this year, but, I mean, over the last week. Sonny Gray, I mean, Sonny Gray alone is an unbelievable job they did with that guy. Getting him back on track, you know, Amir Garrett's taking massive steps forward. It feels like the Reds are kind of that next, you know, I don't want to say raise whatnot indians whatnot but they're like in that next tier it seems like they always get the most out of the guys there louise castillo another

example of course yeah uh the best i love louise castillo but um and and and caleb coffin was the guy there that helped those guys break i mean I mean, Trevor Bauer in his Cy Young acceptance speech mentioned how influential Caleb Gotham was. And the beauty of Caleb Gotham is, and I feel like I have to say his whole name, you know, like Caleb Gotham is one of those names you have to say the full name. Like for some reason, I feel a lot of people say Carson Wentz. They don't say Carson or Wentz.

It's always like Carson Wentz, you know. That's how I feel about Caleb Gotham. Anyway, he's like the perfect blend of everything. He was good enough to make it to the major leagues. Obviously, he wasn't good enough to make a big impact, but just making the major leagues is an accomplishment in and of itself. It's hilarious that he was in Girardi's bullpen in 2015, and of itself it's hilarious that he was in Girardi's bullpen in 2015 um and now Girardi's dressing him with his pitching staff um but then also just the the data and all that stuff it's it's it's really next level and it's something that I don't think the Phillies have had you know I think they have it in the minor league system we've talked a lot about the guys they have down

there but they haven't had at the major league Um, but you're going from a guy who helped build a pitching program with Kyle body of driveline and, and Derek Johnson. And it's just like, those are the kinds of pitching minds that you want to be around if you're looking for the next great guy. And the best part about the Caleb Cotham hiring is that it's going to lead to a top-down approach when it comes to pitching development and pitch design and all this stuff. And finally, and finally, it's going to be everyone on the same page rather than people pulling in different directions and, and saying, no, I'm just going to use my eyes and, you know, stay back on your fastball. And like, that's, that's the main tip from the pitching coaches. it's actually actually it's actually going to be using the data using

rap soda using the cameras using track man and and really i think getting the most out of these pictures but i think he's going to have the also old school feel of i was here i understand what you guys are going through here are some things that i think can help and it's not going to be chris young i mean chris young was a guy who was only numbers didn't know how to translate it didn't know how to incorporate mechanics and and all that stuff and old school pitching things that these guys have come up with caleb's guy that has done both he is he has worked with major league pitchers they trust him um and just, it's such a, it's such a home run hire and it's such a smart hire. And it really gives me hope. It really gives me hope that they're not going to hire one of these

dinosaurs because it's, it's, it's not an, a super out of the box hiring. It's something that I think progressive organizations do. Um, and it just gives me, gives hope that that middleton is going to go more in with the data and and more in with that kind of player development stuff and and invest in that rather than just going back to the old school way of of of scouts and old school way of coaching and whatnot like it's it's time to go more in on analytics and data it's not time to back away it's not time to back away from that stuff when it comes to player development it's time to go more in on analytics and data. It's not time to back away. It's not time to back away from that stuff when it comes to player development. It's time to go more in. And when it came out the other day from Stark, I think, no, Stark and Rosenthal,

that the twins were expecting the Phillies to request permission to interview Thad Levine for the president's role. It got me really excited because I think that's, if you're not going to get Theo, you're not going to get Neander, you're not going to get Chernoff. You're not going to get Antonetti. You're not going to get Mark Shapiro. You're not going to get those kinds of names.

Like Levine, Levine is, is I think just as good as those guys, but he seems like he's more available and, um, he would be a guy that would be a, a home run higher here. So I, I, then he would be a guy that would be a home run hire here. So it gives me some hope that they're not just going to do away with the, you know,

data's bad and get back to not playing with analytics and all that stuff. And it gives me hope that they're going to go more in. So it was a massive hiring, and I've been pretty giddy about it ever since. Yeah, look, as I said last time when we talked about the potential of it, just, I mean, Bauer shouting him out, I don't ever remember a Cy Young winner shouting at his assistant pitching coach. Like, that just doesn't happen that often, you know, and I thought that was notable,

and certainly your excitement over him is uh gets me excited over him and you know i will say i know you were the first person that i heard mention the name so you know big dog and all listen anytime anytime you want minor anytime you you need some kind of news who's the true big dog of philly's reporting i don't know Maybe it's Jack Yeah heard it here first Caleb Gotham Yeah so anytime Anytime you need the smallest Bit of Phillies news I'm your guy

That Levine would be amazing You know I think that In terms of realistic options I think he's Probably the top One I would say in terms of like You know obviously other than Theo, in terms of like, you know, obviously other than Theo, but in terms of like really realistic, because again, I said 5%, you said 10%. So like Theo is realistic in the sense that it's not out of the question, but I wouldn't say I'm expecting it.

That means realistic. Like if you go pay that guy and give him a president role and upgrade, like that could happen. And he's a smart dude he's done an amazing job in minnesota um so you know i think that the point is that at least this whole situation is pointing up compared to where it was the last time we spoke yeah i mean yeah last time we spoke was more jimry yeah it was a lot of Jim Hendry talk and it seems like that's gone away it seems like we haven't seen you know any more smoke around that thank god uh what else you got you got any take back stuff yeah um yes let's do this so it's prospect time i know i know you always love prospect

i know it doesn't just fire you up on like anything else that we talk about on this podcast well listen buddy the uh baseball america prospect list came out and there's there's nothing that gets me a little bit more excited than the Baseball America prospect, top 10 prospect list. So number one was still Spencer Howard, which makes sense. He didn't fully get his rookie eligibility done yet. Number two was Mick Abel. I would have assumed it would be, yeah. Oh, it makes me so happy.

I love Mick. Stop three. I've already started thinking about Mick Abel's first playoff start. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Don't worry. We're only like four years in a TJ surgery way. No worries.

Why would you do that? They all get it, man. It's going to happen at some point, right? It's very sad. Let's be real three was bryson's yeah that makes sense makes sense uh from from baseball america he's a solid all-around player who doesn't have many holes in his game that's just what he is he's good um francisco morales number four who is like apparently up to like 270,

which is crazy. He's starting to really fill out. And I don't know. I think Francisco Morales is going to be a stud. Now, they have Rafael Marchand, five, which is like whatever. I mean, sure. No. I guess.

No. Stop. He's not the fifth best prospect. I'm sorry. Stop. He won Homer in his whole minor league life. That is a serious indictment of this system. Yeah, but he's not really, though. Like, Marchand's not really the fifth best.

I think Luis Garcia's a better prospect than him. I think Josua Garcia's a better prospect than him. I think Johan Rojas is a better prospect than him. So the big point is it falls off a cliff a bit. Well, it does, but also, like, I think they're sleeping on it. So Luis Garcia's six yosuar is seven uh eight is simon i mean casey martin is being criminally underrated here he is he isn't and and so is mickey but whatever and nine is johan rojas i forgot about mickey i'm sorry mac

i didn't you never would yours yours is one true stand like Like at 10, they have Nick Matton, who's like a Brock Holt type. Did he hold his Brock Holt? Oh, come on. God. Come on. All right. So the main point is like Brian Barber, get cracking. He is.

I know. Look. There's no doubt about it. Hey, well, let's go. But it's time to start beefing up here. We need to beef up. Yeah. But at the same time, first off,

Luis Garcia and the US War are both better prospects than Raphael Marchand. I'm sorry. Like, it's just, it's ridiculous. But whatever. I'm excited about the top three, and that's all I care about.

What would you think about, if Theo is not going to be here as a part owner, what do you think about Theo as commissioner? I mean, I think he'd be an amazing commissioner. I don't think that's the direction he wants to go. Maybe, but I don't think so. But I think he'd make a great commissioner.

Look, I mean, right now we have the worst commissioner of our lifetime. So most names you would bring up i would probably be positive about but i mean i think theo would be a brilliant commissioner would you rather theo as commissioner or me uh it's a really that's a tough one man um i don't know i need to think about it I don't know I need to think about it but Theo's quote was interesting the other day about like how he kind of takes blame for

where baseball is I thought that was fascinating that was a really a very introspective thing to say and he's not he's not totally wrong but yeah I thought it was just crazy. He's like, yeah, you know, it's pretty much, you know, my fault. And, uh, you know, we need, we need to get more action in the game, which is, which is what all of us baseball lovers say. We,

it needs more action in the game. It can't just be the three outcomes that are, that are defining the sport. I mean, there needs to be more action in the game and that's that's how i feel too so it was really that quote that i was like man this guy would be an awesome commissioner he would be an amazing i'm with you i think he'd be an amazing amazing commissioner and he seems like a thoughtful guy and um it does seem like he actually wants to do good things on top of whatever he chooses to do next. So I think I would fully support it. And again, anybody but Manfred in reality. But Theo, I think, would be a high-end choice. I just don't think he's going to want to do it.

I would agree. It is also Ryan Howard's birthday. Happy birthday, big piece. Big piece. I mean, very underrated. Or not underrated, underappreciated. Underappreciated Definitively I don't think there was

Was there a more fun time to be a Phillies fan Than when Ryan Howard was hot No hot Ryan Howard was The best The dude hit 58 home runs in a year Alright let's not Let's not forget that 58 like that's some bleep bleep type stuff right

there i mean that's wild man like that's he was wild he was awesome he was super awesome yeah i mean he was he was three homers away from tying the actual all-time home run number. 61. The only home run chase that actually counts. If you pass 62, if you pass 61. You don't really believe that, do you? I do really. I do really believe that. Because you don't think that guys who hit, like, how do you know Ryan Howard didn't?

We have no idea. All of them could have. Like, we have no idea. Like, that is such a ridiculous. I could look in Ryan Howard's eyes. That guy's not a steroid user. You never know. Let's put it this way.

It wouldn't shock me at all if any of them did. I think there's a lot more use of that than not if I had to bet. But who knows? All I'm saying is that my home run game hit 61 homers. And that's Roger Marris. Okay. That's a silly take, but sure. Sure.

Sure. Whatever. I don't care. Hank Aaron still the all-time home run champ? Yeah, he is. Cool. Cool. Put your head.

58. Ryan Howard almost got that. Put your head in the sand, big dog. Put your head in the sand. No one's better at putting their head in the sand than me. Oh, my God. I'm trying to think if I can think of an example of where you've hyped up a steroid guy, and then I could throw it in your face right now.

I mean, you do talk about Bonds like he's the best player I ever saw. I know. I know he is. I know he is. But I do think 61 home runs is like, honestly, it comes down to this. 73 is so unattainable, it's not even close. At least 61, there's a chance someone could get there.

So you like the idea of it being gettable? Yeah, like, I don't think 73 is gettable, and I think it got there in an artificial way. Well, it definitely did. I think 61, at least someone would have a chance. gettable and i think it got there in an artificial way well it definitely did i think 60 well and i think 61 at least someone would have a chance like it would just be more like 73 is or 74 i guess it's just it's not stupid right it's dumb it's not possible 61 is like i mean i mean stan almost got there three years ago four years ago so at least with 61 it's like that's a that's an actual

home run chase so so i'm just laying out the take eventually for this is the real home run chase in 2002 it didn't really matter you know it's it's all set up um yeah i look i i like the idea of it of the actual record being more attainable and just for fun sake going with, you know, 73 is the record. That's what this has in the record book, so that's what I go with. Like, there's no, you know, asterisk next to that, but the Dodgers World Series doesn't count, right? Yeah, exactly. It's exactly right.

It's exactly right. Dude, everyone was taking it back. Then Buster only said, like, 90% of the league was taking it. Like, they were all on it. Bonds was just the best anyway. Whatever. The Dodgers won a 60-game sham of a season. With like teams missing weeks because of COVID and stuff.

It was a sham. The Dodgers don't get an asterisk. The Dodgers get an asterisk, but Bonds doesn't. I don't know. I just see where your priorities lie. Yes, that is correct. The Dodgers get an asterisk, but Bonds doesn't. I don't know. I just see him where your priorities lie. Yes, that is correct. The Dodgers get an asterisk but Bonds doesn't. So awful.

That's facts, pal. Facts. I don't know if you can tell or not, but I have never taken a porn-intimating drug. Yeah, I can tell. I can tell. That's all I got. Oh, thank God.

Thank God. that's all I got oh thank god thank god could you check your ground and see if my wallet's there is it laying around I just saw I saw it on the ground next to me

and I decided not to text you and saying it's there oh this is fun buddy let's get Theo seriously I know it's a long shot, but John Middleton, open up your wallet. Open up the ownership stock. Do whatever the hell it takes to turn this thing around, man. Like, stop being a laughingstock and be a star.

You could do that in one move. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you could. And just do it, man. Just do it, man. Just do it, man. I like that. That's our official high-ups position. Hey, Middleton, just do it, man. He's friends himself.

See you later. All-Star Closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby.