High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Outclassed

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Jack Fritz and Tucker Bagley react to the Phillies losing two of three against the Dodgers and discuss some of the ways the Phils looked out-classed by Los Angeles. The guys also discuss recent trade rumors ahead of the MLB Trade Deadline and if Brandon Marsh should revert back to being a platoon player vs lefties. Presented by Miller Lite.To purchase Ring The Bell by Jack Fritz and Kevin Reavy go to RingTheBellBook.com

Miller Light, the official beer partner of your Philadelphia Phillies, is proud to serve as presenting sponsor of WIP's High Hopes Pod. So whether you're listening to the game, catching off on the latest High Hopes pod or at the ballpark. Remember, it tastes like Miller time, Phillies fans. Celebrate responsibly. This is the High Hopes podcast. High Hope! On the Odyssey app and Sports Radio 94, WIP.

The crowd is singing, hey, home. I feel a little less alone. I suck. Welcome on in. It is the It's the High Hopes podcast presented by Miller Light, Jack Fritz, filling in. There's no yo with no Seltzer here

as he is, I'm sure, watching a lot of movies and enjoying his vacation as he has seen fish and I think he's going to see fish again this weekend. Filling in for him, who I guess Tucker's filling in for me, is well, Tucker back. What's happening, Tucker?

I haven't seen fish this week. and I don't plan on seeing them again this weekend. So we're good there. Not a lot of fish. Not a lot of fish when James isn't here. I know. I know. This biggest passion in life is the band fish.

So, Phil's lose two or three to the Dodgers, a series in which Otani, Snell, Yamamoto, Glassnell didn't start any of the games. I respect Rebleski, but he's not exactly those guys. It gets shut down pretty much by Eric Lauer,

And here we are starting the second half with back-to-back home losses or home series losses. And they are now eight and nine in July, which definitely checks out. They can't run the bases. The offense is struggling. The bullpen's a disaster. We'll get into Mattingly. Tucker, besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? Yeah, I mean, besides that, the rest of it's also kind of abysmal.

I mean, I think you said they're eight and nine in their last 17 games. they're 500 since June 27th. They're four games back of the Dodger or the Braves for the NL East, which is the furthest back they've been in quite a while. And I don't know, everything you've seen from the last two series against the Mets, against the Dodgers is everything that we worried about this team. Even dating back to preseason when you thought about maybe what could go wrong with this team that prevents them from making the postseason,

well, you see it now. The back end of the starting pitching hasn't held up. The guys in the bullpen that you were. counting on to maybe make a leap, haven't necessarily done that. And then offensively, I don't really know who you can count on right now. I mean, Trey Turner obviously has bounced back since a really, really rough first three months of the season. But your all-stars, the guys that you were counting on have all struggled. The rest of your lineup hasn't necessarily stepped up.

And now you're two and four. Your playoff odds right now, according to baseball reference, are at 50%. It's not ideal. As we look, you know, what are we, 10 days away from the, the, trade deadline. I mean, everything, we did trade deadline, roulette a couple weeks ago. Now you need everything. Now it's like, oh, maybe I need a right feel. It really

seems like you need a lot more than just one guy. So it's down to, because I wasn't it like 80 some percent the other day with him making the playoffs? And now, I think it was. I think that's where it topped off. Yeah, I mean, different sites obviously have like different formulations. So like they still have a 20%

lead over like the pirates are next at like 30%. So like it's still comfortable. ahead of the people behind them, but it's still jarring to see that it's basically a coin flip. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think playoff percentages are the thing I maybe hate the most in the world. Besides maybe, I hate the app of broadcasts when they have home run probability. It's like, who's that for? There's not a single-R-B-I probability.

Ah, it drives me nuts. It makes my skin crawl. It really does. So, and to be honest, I, I haven't even really considered them missing the playoffs yet. Like, I am still, they'll be fine. All I care about is, like, what they're going to do in October, and that's where kind of my fear comes from.

But, you know, the thing that is irking me, and the thing that I need Don Maddenly and these guys to come together and figure out is, like, the lack of quality baseball they're playing. And in watching these two, teams this series. Dodgers have a bunch of high paid stars to. We talk all the time about, oh, the Dodgers are running sport because they can buy everyone. And like, yeah, they can buy anyone they want, essentially. But the Mets can also buy whoever they want. The Blue Jays can buy whoever we want. The Phillies have one of the five highest payrolls of baseball. The thing that

separates Dodgers from everyone else is they do literally everything well. They pitch well. They field well, they run the base as well, behind the scenes, they have unbelievable player development, they get the most out of these guys. They trade for a guy in Tommy Edmund, who I really like Tommy Edmund a couple years ago, but it kind of fallen off, and he has an OPS over 900. Max, and this is like 10 years ago, but Max Muncie, who all of a sudden, he fixes, he gets the, they're not Rexbacks anymore because it's not the 1980s, but he gets, the sunglasses with prescription in him, and he turns into Barry Bonds. Max Muncie has the second most home runs of Dodgers history.

They got there Eric Caros, I think, now after last night. That was a shocking thing to see. I couldn't believe it. The Dodgers are the freaking Dodgers, you know what I mean? So, you know, Max Muncie was a long time ago, but they find Max Muncie off the scrap heap and turn him into this version of Max Muncie. Miguel Rojas was their hero last year. They sign him out of, like, they, they can spend a lot of money.

And that's true. But what separates Dodgers from everyone else is they play really freaking good baseball. And in watching this team, this series and watching the difference of the quality of baseball, and watching Bryson Stott just run to third base for God knows what reason, seeing J.T, I mean, we've dissected that play a million times now. I don't think we need to relitigate it. But the little things come back to bite you. They turn into big things in October.

And like Don Maddenly, when he took over in that first month, first month and a half, two months, it was, we need to play better baseball. And it felt like there was a different level of accountability and a different level of locked in. And it feels like ever since they settled into the season and got back in and made a push for the NL East. and are in the driver's seat of a wild card spot, they've let that stuff slip. They've slipped on that stuff. And I need Don Maddenly and I need the players. I hope that this was a, let's look in the mirror,

realize we're not the best team of all time. And let's get back to doing what we did to dig ourselves out of this. Because this is how second halfs of 24 happened, where you just can't flip a switch and bang. here comes the big run. So, you know, like, I'm not putting it on a manager because I don't think that's fair. I think it's on these guys. But I thought he had a good grasp of them for a month and a half, two months.

And this last month, they've been slipping. And I need Maddenly to shore it up. Yeah, I mean, really, since he declared that he wanted the job, things haven't necessarily gone that well for Don Manningly. But you mentioned, like, the Dodgers is just watching them play. they carry themselves like smart baseball players. And even all the guys that they give big money to, like Muki Betts isn't having a great season, but he makes winning plays.

He had two home runs on Monday night. But like they gave Kyle Tucker a ton of money. He's not having a good season. Pretty sure he went over in the series. I mean, Freddie Freeman's a robot and it's going to hit until he's like 70 years old. And Shohei Otani is a monster. But like they have guys who are overpaid and underperforming,

but they still make smart baseball players. Like just, I mean, even like the wheel play that they made last year in the postseason to get Castiano's, the JT play, like that was still a great play defensively. I mean, the things they do, the little things they do,

you don't see the Phillies doing that, really ever. And, you know, I don't know if it's because the Phillies are loaded with bad defensive players. And as a result, they struggle on that side of the field. But yeah,

I mean, I think for a team that, you know, really going into the season and going into this series specific, the Dodgers are the team you're trying to catch, right? The Dodgers are the team that you're comparing yourself to. This is a real measuring stick series. And you came up small and you really lacked focus for most of the last two games.

And what I don't get, Tucker, is, dude, JT's 35. Stott is 28. And listen, those two are like their best base runners. So it's actually surprising that they were the two. I just don't get how you've played baseball this long. You know how to play the game. Like you, you guys are old too. The Dodgers and the Phillies, I think are the two oldest rosters in baseball.

How is it, how is there not a, like the baseball IQ? Like, how has that not been developed over these, over all these years of playing the game? That's what, that's what sticks out to me. It's like, are those guys just cerebral, you know, and I think Mookie's cerebral. I think Freeman's cerebral. Like, I think that they've Miguel Rojas. Edmund, like, they're all smart. It's just, how are our guys? I feel like I've been watching a just dumb baseball team really since 2010, like 2010, 2011. I haven't watched a crisp,

fundamental good baseball team. We've watched good baseball, but like actually playing the game in, it feels like an entire, like, the poor next generation of kids, Tucker, that have sat down and consumed Philly's baseball for the last six years and trying to say, hey, you know, that's how you play. When we grew up, we had Utley and Rollins telling you had to play. Well, that's what's funny is like that great team. And obviously it gets overshadowed because of how amazing they were offensively you had to, you know, MVP's and Hall of Fame talent offensively.

They were so unbelievable defensively, especially up the middle, right? Like with Rees, with Rolens, with Utley, with a Victorino at Center Field. You had Fleeze and Worth. Like, you had unbelievable defensive players. just got kind of glossed over because you could also score six, seven, eight runs a game. And yet, like, this team is just stupid. And, like, watching JT do that, like, I almost couldn't even get mad. It's not like it's a young kid where it's like, oh, he doesn't know better.

He should know better. And he does know better. And I don't know, like, I don't want to turn this into a Bryce Harper thing, but how many people on the planet have played more baseball than Bryce Harper? Probably no one, right? Like, he's been in the big leagues for 14 years, played more baseball than anybody, you know, little league high school junior college minors whatever he's not a great base runner he's not necessarily a cerebral guy in the field making savvy plays like just across the board this team

as constructed they're not a very smart team like they don't do savvy things i don't see them do things go wow came way they did that their shortstop has maybe the worst instincts i've ever seen from a major league shortstop it's just it's crazy to me that they found a collection of the dumbest baseball players you've ever seen and put them all in the field. And they still win 90 games a year. I know. I know. I know. That's what they are. That's what they are. They are, the Phillies are such a conundra because you don't think they're exactly brilliant. I mean, really it comes down to this. They have three unbelievable starting pitchers that help them every three out every five games. You hope that one of the other guys can do it. Now,

Nola, they have a good record in his stars, even though he has been good. You just have to hope that one of the stars is hot at the right time and the offense is probably going to be okay. But they lost a series, and I mentioned in the open, they lost a series where you didn't face Otani. By the way, Otani got two hits, two hits, three hits, but they weren't impactful. Like he didn't hit a home run again, which is crazy. I'm kind of tired of buying tickets to see the Dodgers just to see Oatani.

I know. I know. But he won one for 12 in the series. One for 12? Okay. Yeah. And again, no home runs. And I think what makes it even more disheartening, obviously the way they played was, was annoying and looking relatively outclassed. And it wasn't annoying they had to lead in all three games and only winning one of them also annoying. But when you try to think about this in a postseason sense, like what's it going to be like in the postseason?

You're not facing Eric Lauer. Rebleski would probably be in the bullpen. They're not facing, they didn't face the guys that they're going to face in October. They didn't see glass now. Snell, Yamamoto, or Otani. Those guys will be starting for the Dodgers because they have the ability to just kick their feet up in the regular season, win a million games. And hey, let's say, just keep saying you have a neck injury and we'll see you in October. That was the scary part about this series, is that they couldn't even take.

and they couldn't even take advantage of the Dodgers backups. No, and the Dodgers did face the Phillies horses, right? Like they beat Wheeler 2-1. They scored seven on a night where Sanchez started, which only gave up three in five and a third. And then obviously, you know, you didn't get Lazardo, who'd be your third starter. But, I mean, you were at full strength and they're kind of coasting, right?

Which they have really in the regular season the last couple of years. And yeah, it is worrisome. For a team that, you know, you look at for the postseason, and you kind of heard it a lot during the All-Star break. Well, you know, the Dodgers are the favorite in the National League, but, you know, you have the Braves, you have the Phillies, you have the Brewers. That's the next group trying to go up and challenge them.

And the way the Phillies played this week against the Dodgers, I don't know if they really belong in that group right now. Yeah, I agree. And the tough part about where we're at with them and why, like, there needs to be a, there needs to be some tough conversations, I think hopefully after the game last night, maybe today on the off day and tomorrow and trying to, to, you know, lock back in a little bit because you go Yankees, Marlins.

Like the rest of the schedule in the end of July and early August is not exactly, you know, it's not exactly a cakewalk. There's not a get right period. I know the- Marlins have come back to Earth a little bit. Well, thankfully so, I, you know, they are, we got to stop with the Marlins thing. But still, like, they have a pulse where in years past they haven't exactly had a pulse. And then like the Orioles are in there.

four against the Nats. So it's time to knock out some of that nonsense. The Yankees have been down a little bit. You're not facing Judge this weekend. And you've lost two straight home series in an 11 game homestand to start the second half without playing the most inspiring baseball. So yeah, it's a really, really, it's a really, really interesting time period as we are just, like, they need reinforcements and it's so close.

I think they can feel how close it is. and like they they need reinforcements in like the worst way both in the outfield in the starting rotation in the bullpen we'll get more into it coming up towards the end of the podcast but I do want to talk about I do want to talk about Don Maddenly and I know we talked about the you know the messaging and getting this team to play better baseball which was his whole mantra when he took over and they currently are not playing better baseball but we are starting to see some real warts here with what he does with his bullpen decisions and when to get a starter out. What have you thought about Don Mattingly's bullpen management, I would say, in the last three weeks?

It's been confounding. Like there have been a lot of head scratching moves or moves that, you know, when he makes, go, oh, I don't know if I really would have done that. I mean, even something as simple as bringing in Duran at the end of Monday's game to get him one out. When it's not like he really needed work, he pitched a meaningless inning the day before just to get himself work. Like, that felt kind of odd. And, you know, he just doesn't seem to have a feel for it. Now, I don't know if it's kind of a Pandora's box situation where he also just doesn't really have the horses in the bullpen to get outs right now.

I mean, you have Duran and then after that, like, Kirkering's been kind of okay. Tim Mesa has an ERA north of 11 in July. He's given up, I think, eight earned runs in his last three appearances. He hasn't exactly been. That's not Pesack baseball. No, that's not great. That's not great. Let's lock in.

Maybe Alvarado's going to lock back in, but he hasn't been great all year. So, I mean, like, it's not like he has a guy that you can say, oh, why didn't he bring him in? He's been shut down. But at the same point, like, the Nola thing, why are you bringing him back out for the six? Like, I thought five innings, one run, like, we're good. Like, let's go home. I guess two runs, right? And immediately it backfired, right?

Like, single home run, it's over. Like, just immediately like that. Like, it just kind of felt. obvious to everyone in the ballpark and maybe Noel is different because he does have a resume and maybe he is such a veteran that he commands respect, not necessarily to the level of

Wheeler, but it's weird to kind of take someone with his resume out that early in a game, but that's who he is now, right? And if you're Don Mattingly and your whole reason for taking this job and your whole reason for wanting the job in the future is I played the game and I command respect

in the clubhouse, then you have to make the tough decisions. And you have to tell a guy who maybe thinks he's hot right now, hey, you haven't really been that great this year. Maybe you don't get to go out for the sixth and we turn it over to the bullpen. I just, the things that we worried about Don Mattingly when he got hired are really showing up. Yeah. So I find the Maddenly thing interesting and I actually feel like there are, I feel like it's fair to present both sides. Because I do think there is two sides of this thing.

Like with the Nola thing last night, he should have been out. It's it's Muncie Freeman to start that inning. But in Maddenly's defense, he was at 70 pitches to start the inning. Now the fifth inning was a little hairy, but it was also some soft contact in there. It wasn't like balls were getting ripped all that. Like we've seen Nola allows him a hard contact just right after. Yeah, and like five years ago, you wouldn't have thought twice about Nolan rolling at that point. Correct.

So, so, nolla's at 70 pitches. I think if he had a full stable of horses. So last night he's down Alvarado and Boland because they pitched the last two nights. So I would have gone Mesa to start it just because, but then it's like, Mesa's also gotten sheled. And it would backfire because Nola is only five innings and he's at 70 pitches. How do you pull him from the game? So there has been a lot of decisions with Maddenly where I have said that, that feels wrong.

I think the Duran thing was he was already hot. You might as well bring him in rather than just like he's going to be down anyway because he effectively warmed up to be coming. So just let him come in and get the last out. I agree if you felt wrong. But I think that that would be their justification for it. Like you might as well use him if you, if you get them warm. But when you're down, they're down banks right now, which isn't exactly, you know, I'm not

saying there needs to be a parade down Broad Street because, yeah. all these excuses because Tanner Banks has hurt. He also stinks. Backus has been horrible. So when you have like two left, you have one lefty last night in Mazza and Alvarado's down. Like he's kind of screwed from that, from that perspective.

Because you also want to save Mazza for when Otani comes back up. And you need him for later in the game when Otani comes up. I totally agree. So the maddenly thing, we are definitely hashtag monitoring the situation. We are still back on maybe this is Alex Corr's job in the offseason because I agree with you. There has been head scratching bullpen decisions. But in Don's defense, it's not like he has a stable of horses out there.

He can open up the bullpen door and say, hey, go get me three outs. Now, I do think, and it was not the reason they lost last night, but I simply don't care. I do think they had to send Seth Johnson down just to get him out of the ballpark. Just say, hey, like, your key card doesn't work. And Maddenley's like, where's Seth? And they're like, we can't find him. I don't know. Because the wraparound Seth Johnson innings are going to make me blow a gasket.

I can't stand watching that guy play baseball. I cannot. And he wears 51 for Andy Johnson and I can't stand that. Locate, locate. And then there's Kirkering. Kirkering. Kirkring is one of the most disappointing Philly athletes of my lifetime. I know it sounds a little overdramatic.

It's a little hyperbolic. A little bit. I understand that. But like you want to talk about premium stuff and just not having the mental fortitude to get it done and use it. It's when you can look in a Ryan Kirkering's face when he knows he doesn't have it. and you just, it's a sinking feeling in your gut of, oh, no, it's going to be one of those car-caring outings. And I, he's confounding.

He is confounding to me because I don't know why he's ditched the splitter. Like he kind of had at the beginning of the season, it was a relatively interesting pitch. And then he's just like, no, I'm not going to even going back to, I'm going to get back to being me. And, you know, the walks are out of control. I think he's walked 23 guys in 38 innings. or something along those. 39 and a third, yeah. It's inexcusable.

It's inexcusable. So, Maddenly is in a tough spot of he's got a great closer. John the Boland has been a revelation. I mean, a really, I heard the big John walking for the first time on Tuesday. Just a phenomenal walk-in song. What a trade by Dumbrowski, by the way.

As Matt Strom carries, carries ERA north of six down there in Kansas City. We're starting to add some more good moves to the Nebraska Ledger. Although Keith Law had Starlin Gaba is the 48th best prospect in baseball today. So kind of heating up a little bit. But obviously, it's Lazardo, so you're fine with that. But yeah, I just, I would love, and I don't want to love, I would be perfectly okay crushing Maddenly if I felt like he had the proper guys out there to get the job done.

and after August 3rd, maybe he will, and we could have an honest assessment of where we're at with Mattingly. I just, I struggle to do it right now because I don't think he has many great options. And it's almost damned if you do and damned if you don't. Yeah, I mean, like when you kind of try to piece things together for the bullpen and you do it a lot in the postseason, but when you do it now, like, if it started doesn't go seven, you're going to have some dicey innings.

I mean, we saw it on Monday night where Sanchez only went, you know, five or five and third whatever it was and luckily your offense kind of took over and put up 10 runs but it was kind of rough getting through you know innings six through nine when you don't have the guys to do it and i don't know if tim meza's just exhausted like he's thrown 48 innings already this year his career high is 52 so tim meza has done 48 innings this year isn't that crazy dude they're also they're 12 and i think i looked it up they're like 12 and 24 when he pitches like He gets a lot of mob up duty for a guy who's been pretty good. How is he thrown 48?

I guess because Kirkering missed the first month of the year. Yeah, he got a lot of time during, I think Rob Thompson kind of used him a lot because he had a lot of one and two inning. I do think I have, I do think I have completely blacked out the first month of the season. I don't, I don't think I remember anything besides. 45 innings. He has 45 innings this year, which is still insane. That's insane. Besides, like, Sanchez getting crushed in Chicago and the Giant Series.

I think I've blacked everything out from the 9-19 start. 45 innings of Tim Meza is crazy. That is so many innings. Yeah, 45 innings from him, 39 from Kirkering, and then Durand, obviously, is 34. But, yeah, I mean, like, this isn't something he's ever necessarily done. Like, he was good in 23 in Toronto, but he had 50 total innings over the course of the year. So I wonder there's just some fatigue setting in because he hasn't had this this workload.

But yeah, I mean, you just look across the bullpen right now and I just don't know how you piece it together. Like, I don't think Don't Madingly is getting a good job. But I also don't think Dave Dombrowski has done necessarily a great job of giving him three or four guys that you feel confident that can come and get an out. And I don't know, Kirkering as great as his stuff can be and is sometimes. I've never seen someone who just is a relief pitcher and doesn't have the mental fortitude to get through a tough inning.

Like that's really to me the hallmark of a good reliever is, oh man, two guys on, nobody out, got to get a couple of strikeouts or really get out of this. It was all last year, right? Like you couldn't trust him to bring him into an inning with a guy on base because he was giving up inherited runners all the time. Well, he's the best, he's the best reliever in baseball when they're up by three in like the seventh inning. That is, that is, Ryan Kirkman will pitch a nine, a nine pitch inning in a scenario like

that. I also feel like every time it's a three two count in a big spot, easy walk. Just an easy, non-competitive, like a little sweeper down or a fastball way out of the zone. And you look at it. It's like, you know, they're like, whoa, ZRA is like 2.37 or whatever. It's in the two. It's like, I don't care. I, there, no one with eyes anymore, anymore. I was a Kirkgren guy. I tried to defend him for a long time. But there's just too much sample size of him being in pretty big spots and not being able to get the job done. Last night wasn't even a big spot. I mean, it was a 5-3 game.

It wasn't, it wasn't. It was a classic Seth Johnson spot and he couldn't get through it. Yeah, yeah, it's always one and a third Seth. Any chance you can get to wrap around Seth. You gotta get his up downs ready for the postseason. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't want a David Robertson situation again. No, I will say, you know, McFarlem made his debut last night.

And I think you saw some good, you saw some shaky. The shaky is, it's not he was dotting the fastball. I don't know how you can control a fastball that moves that much. It does move a lot. It does. Honestly, if I was catching or I was, you know, catching him for some odd reason, I think I would just set up down the middle with the fastball and let it play. Like, if it's going to rise or sink, okay, and just get me to that sweeper.

He leaves that sweeper up a little bit. I know this is like a 9-4 game, and the Dodgers were probably checked out of it, So it's not like the read too far into it. I thought he left it up a little bit a couple of times. The command was not, I think his K, I think his K rate, not K rate, but strike rate. And the miners is like 40%, which is not ideal, which is in the blue on, but there's a minor league savant now, which is very exciting. Oh.

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of big developments down in the minor leagues. It's, it's good stuff. But yeah, so now at least there is premium stuff. And he did show that. It was a pretty good inning. And maybe as he gets his feet wet, the command comes back. And I certainly will be more interested in him than Seth Johnson. So maybe he's someone who could kind of factor.

I was glad, honestly, Tucker, that he's gotten to a game because I thought they're going to bring him up, not pitch him, and then send him back down. And still try to put on this facade that he needs work at Redding. Did you see that he was the first Philly's pitcher to go right from AA to the majors since Francisco Morales in 2022? Yes. Another one of the baby boys. He's better than Francisco. Morales. I feel pretty confident saying that. Already, I think he's better than Francisco Morales.

If you retire tomorrow, I would say better than Francisco Morales. I also, it was a good Mike Sigursky mentioned last night on the broadcast. The hefty lefty. The hefty, the John Crook look-alike. Mike Sigursky was a house, man. I, like, that's a, that's a reliever. You know what I mean? Like, that is a, that is a, that is my kind of.

Well, like, the one thing as we talk about baseball and everyone being more athletic and healthier and stuff, I miss the overweight reliever. Oh, Todd coffee getting a bloody nose running in from the outfield. Yeah, like you're showing up hungover and you're just out there to throw as many fastballs as he can and then down like a dozen Advil on your way back to the clubhouse. Well, you know the saying, Tucker, I'd be profen, I'd be shoving, you know? That was the, that was the Prusky's model. Oski's motto back in 2013, 2014. Ibi Prove and Ibi Chauvin. Yeah, Harper was on Mookie's podcast yesterday.

And he was talking about how he misses the 88 mile an hour, like, middle reliever that would just come in. Now everyone, now like Seth Johnson's your middle reliever throwing 100. It is crazy. Like, I forget who was pitching, but Rincona's like turned on a fastball last night. And it was like 102. And like, that's just kind of normal now. Oh, I know.

And I see like Chase Sutley's been posting highlights on Instagram leading up to his well on fame induction. It's like you're hitting doubles off like 87 mile per hour fastballs. I know. That's not impressive. Well, and it's why I can't stand the some of the older commentators. They're like, I can't these guys hit anymore. You know, why don't you just go the opposite way a little bit?

Why don't you? Why don't you choke up on the bat? I don't know. Tony Gwynn only struck out 12 times a year. I don't know. Have you seen these freaking guys? I don't think you, I don't think you'd hit him either. I don't think you hit him either.

It's crazy. Well, the bonds. Bonds, uh, bonds to break the record. The lefty, the lefty was thrown 84 to 86. Yeah. The entire bat. What are we doing? Well, like, Jamie Moore lasted 20 years, throwing 83.

And even then it was kind of crazy, but like, it's laughable that he was just able to get through two decades of a major league career doing that. Why can't these guys hit? Why can't these scrubs hit anymore? They just, just put the bat on the baseball. I don't know. It's got, it's a 3,500 RPM slider.

It's a little, little difficult, okay? Cripes. But I will say, it actually, it makes me even more impressed sometimes with the modern hitters

because, like, Nola, Nola will be down, down, all game. And, like, we'll go up and out of the zone.

The second he misses one time, 450 feet. I've never seen someone who's every mistake just gets crushed the way Aaron Nola. Like, he is,

never gotten away with a mistake pitch. No, poor Muncie. I mean, not poor Muncie, but the poor Muncie at bat, it's a one hung change up that just happen to stay up and Muncie just has to deposit it 700 feet in center field. And you know, I'm really getting sick and tired to Max Muncie. How is he still doing this? First off, he looks like a

dork and he runs like a dork. All of it bothers me. And all of a sudden now he's like a stud third base, you know, defensively now. All because he got his little glasses and the prescription in there. Isn't an OPS plus of like 130 each of the last three years? He's been unbelievable offensively. Yeah, Tommy Edmund has an OPS over 900.

It's just, it's all good stuff. No big deal. Yeah. It actually does impress me, though, the modern hitters when they, like it feels like they don't miss many mistakes. And, you know, I don't know. It's the railing against the modern hitters, I guess, just drives me a little to nuts.

I meant to bring that, that's what I was going to bring up real quick. And speaking of how the games changed a lot. And I think you, did Seltzer send this to us? I don't know, but the stat about how James Wood has already faced more pitchers in his career. This year than Ted Williams did in his entire career. Then Ted Williams. Like, of course you have a book on every pitcher. You see one or two a game.

Well, I remember, like, before he died, Pete Rose gave an interview. And he was like, hitting in the majors was easy because I just saw the same 10 guys every year for a decade. It's like, of course it was, but not anymore. Yeah, yeah, game changed. I don't know. I like modern baseball. I, it's just, watching old highlights is jarring,

jarring because of how- Even like the managerial decisions, like I'll go back and watch like the 08 World Series and Joe Madden, who was hailed as a genius at the time, it's like, why are you making that pitching move? Like you're just leaving in a righty

to face the top of the Phillies lineup, like just because. Well, I think there's one game, there's one game down, is either one or two of that series where he, the coast was the DH.

And I think he pulled him. so they didn't have a catcher. Yeah, they didn't have a backup catcher. I think they pulled them for Greg Dobbs. Yeah. Well, Madden, like, you finally caught up to him. Well, I didn't catch up to them. He won the World Series in 16.

But I remember talking about, like, how they had managed Chapman was one of the worst managerial moves I've ever seen. Like, the last two games were just horrendous. Yeah. And now it's like, it's so funny, Joe Madden was that. That's how he's viewed. And now he's, like, viewed as this old curroman in a way. Well, that's when you go to the Angels. Yeah.

You go to Anaheim, you aren't going to be viewed favorably. Yeah, the game has changed. The game has changed. All right. Some other things. Do you have a Tucker's bag? I don't. I did pull up a couple stats from this weekend, just because I'm curious.

We'll get to it a little later. All right. So a couple other things I want to get to. It seems like there's a Brandon Marsh platoon is back. He's not just facing left-handed pitchers no matter what. You know, Maddenly said that, hey, then we tried it. Essentially what Maddenly said before the game yesterday was we tried it. And he was doing good for a little bit, but he has struggled against lefties.

I think he's sitting 105 against them in the last like 20 or 25 at bats around there. So we might be back on a March platoon against lefties. They might have platoons at every single spot in the outfield, left field, center field, right field. And it's not because they have great outfielders. No, not at all. Brian Dele-Cruz obviously has an opportunity. It seems like Rinconis is just going to stay up here. I understand it on one hand.

And the other thing that does hit me with the idea of a true March platoon now is it does open up more avenues at the trade deadline to where, you know, kind of the thing that has been talked about, and I kind of been thinking about is would they have the ability to pull off a 21-like Braves deadline where they just go get a bunch of guys, you know, it's not, it's this version of Adam Duvall, Jorge Salare, Jock Peterson, and just whoever's hot is hot. And you take a couple shots on guys who have had down years but have a long pedigree, and you just stick them out there.

Crawford's going to play a lot. Derek Hill, like I think that's a fine center field. combo, but you can go get two right-handed hitting outfielders. If you don't think Brian Neela-cruz can, maybe a different left-handed hitting outfielder because, like, I don't think Gabriel and Rencona Jr. should be in a playoff series. I don't know if that's a hot take or not, but I don't think so. I think that's a little crazy, if you ask me.

So there is an opportunity if they commit to the idea of Marsh being a platoon guy to possibly going and getting two outfielders rather than just one outfielder. Yeah, and they kind of tried that last year, remember? and, you know, Castiano's obviously didn't like it, but that was a big thing the last two months of the season when they got Vader was, you know, they're platooning everybody. People are coming in and out.

You're not starting every game in the outfield. They had five guys that they felt comfortable starting and depending on matchups, you know, playing out there. So it wouldn't necessarily be that foreign to this team. Do you think that they should be a ship-la-tune, Marsh, or should they let them kind of work its way through it against left-ed? I think they should. Like, the thing that worries me about Marsh more so than, like,

Shore has been struggling, Harper's been struggling. We've seen Marsh struggle like this for prolonged periods of time, right? Like his first half and how good he was in May and June, that was really like an anomaly for his career. And you could say, well, that was the breakout. It's also like 28, right? Like he should be breaking out at this point in his career. He's not a young kid. So I do worry that he got overexposed against lefties.

I do worry that, you know, people are now pitching more carefully to him now that he had that success. he had the last couple months. And as a result, you kind of end up in a situation where he's not necessarily as good as he was the last couple of months. He's not as bad as he was. But yeah, I just, I don't know if I fully trust him to get things back on track the next two months. Yeah.

I mean, I think we're certainly on watch with Brandon Marsh. And he's also been terrible in the postseason, too. Like, as great as he was in the first half of the season, if we're looking ahead to what this lineup looks like in the playoffs. I mean, he's like one for 22. two in the last two playoffs. Like, not necessarily great. That checks out.

I mean, that checks out. I, with Marsh, I really like him. I want him to be an everyday player. I'm like, I would love. And he seems like a great teammate. Like, he was on the bench, like, hyping up Brian Dela Cruz last night after he had a home run. He's 100% a great teammate.

That is not a concern for me at all. I just, I will always have a bit of a fear of the Marsh, like the other should have dropped with the Marsh thing. and, you know, the clock striking midnight a little bit. Good player. Great against righties. Great in the, great in left field.

But I do worry of a of a nose dot here. Hopefully, hopefully he hits his way out of it and we're fine. And they really do have a big four. I don't know about the 5-100 they were talking about, you know, a couple, a couple weeks ago. But I really hope he pulls the way out of it. But I'm, I'm okay doing what is best for the team at this point. And it does feel like getting,

getting him out of there against lefties is certainly good for the team. And maybe, again, that's something that Natalie's going to have to manage because there are some opportunities early in that game yesterday where he could have pulled the lever and gone to Marsh. And he didn't. He let Sosa bat against the righty. So. Yeah.

Or even like if this is just a short term thing to kind of get his head right and have him relax and try and figure out a week or two from now. Yeah. I always forget it. Edmudo Sosa in the outfield platoon. How could I, how could I do that? How could I do that? How could I forget? All right, some other things here.

The Stubbs injury is so weird. Like, I just... Especially because your other backup catcher got injured last night, too? Yeah, bad timing. Bad timing. So, Brian Dillacruz is coming up on Monday. What was it coming up? He was getting the call of Monday, which means it was, like, planned in a way.

Right. Then they're sitting around all day on Tuesday and don't announce that Stub's going on the IL with a wrist injury or wrist inflammation. Until 450. Like, what did you have to wait around for? Did you have to call everyone in the office? All right. How's your wrist? Your wrist is banged up a little bit.

How'd you inflame your wrist during the All-Star break? Exactly. So I think they're trying to make a trade. Like they are trying to get someone for Saturday. If it's not, if they can't get a deal done, then it's going to be Brian Geller, not Brad Geller, who is a journeyman guy. He's 32 playing. He's pitching well at AAA, but I've got.

I have no big take on Brian Keller. Little fishy, the whole stubbs injury and the fifth starter mystery. It feels like they're going to try to get a deal done if they can't see Brian Keller, but that's one to, I think, kind of look for in the next two days. And then the other thing I want to get to before we get to Tucker's bag and get out of here is the Matt Gell report from this morning. And he said, he wrote, of late, the Phillies have been more willing to discuss. higher caliber arms, the kind of pitcher who would be capable of starting a postseason game. Tucker, what's your reaction to that?

Isn't that the one thing this team has? Right? If you were to start, like, hey, what are the Phillies good at? They have good starting pitchers capable of starting a postseason game. Like, I get, you know, maybe you want to strengthen your strength. And maybe that's the path of least resistance. But like, you're not going out and getting scoobble for like pennies on the dollar, right? Like anyone that's good like other teams who are much more needy for starting pitching are going to outbid you.

We're going to drive up to the price where you're going to have to give up, you know, a huge amount of prospects. I just don't think it really makes any sense. Like I get it and it sounds great. Like imagine a one through four of Wheeler, Sanchez, Lazzardo and another guy like that. But Joe Ryan. Yeah. Like I just, I don't, it doesn't make sense to me unless you really think this. team can go deep. But like, it would be funny to me, you go into a wildcard series with,

you know, those four starting pitchers. And you lose the first two games, two one. And like, that's it. You're done. Yeah. And you wasted all those prospects on a guy who didn't even make it into a postseason game now. I guess you could argue, well, you know, if you get another guy, maybe you have guys coming out of the bullpen and things like that. But I just feel like the needs for this team are so pressing that pushing all your chips in for a guy who, I don't Unless he's your third starter, you're bumping Lazardo to four. Like, I just don't think adding a four starter is necessarily what this team needs. I am perplexed.

I am reflex. It is strengthening your strength. And I understand that a starter influences an entire game. And if you have four, great, awesome. You had four last year. They were great. And it didn't matter because you couldn't hit. If they go and try.

trade real assets for a real starter, you know, Joe Ryan of the world, if you want someone that is controllable instead of Tara Scoob. If they trade, if they trade what it takes for 12 starts, Teres Scoob, I'm going to blow a gasket. I, I, I, they can't do it. They can't do it. You want to go trade for Joe Ryan awesome. I mean, Joe Ryan's, Joe Ryan's really good. There's some other starting pitchers. I'm perfectly fine. I'm fine trading for a starting pitcher. I just, there's. There's been this thing recently, I feel like, where, and I've heard a little bit on the station, Twitter, talking to people of I'm fine with where I'm at with the bats. And I think that is one of the most insane, insane takes you could have.

Like, they are, they are unbelievably deficient in the, in the lineup. Unbelievably deficient. Like, boom, we're going to do it again with him in the middle of the lineup. great that he had a good game last night. I can't believe we're going to be back with Bome. Stott's hit or miss. He's fine. He's like a 250 hitter perpetually now.

And then he gets to J.T. of course, the year that Hunter Goodman, Adley, and Shay Langleyers might be available. We just gave the 35-year-old catch for three years. And I think what he does behind the plate is undervalued, all that good stuff. But his OPS is in the fives. And he is, to his credit, he's a good clutch hitter. but if you can go and add one real bat, someone that could influence every game,

that's what they have to do. And that's not even getting started on the bullpen. Imagine if you could add another real bullpen piece to this. They're not doing the Mason Miller thing. I mean, Mason Miller is a pipe dream. He'd be a great eighth inning guy, you know? But bullpen, it's bullpen, and it's lineup. an outfielder, maybe even too.

The starting pitcher thing, I know that Debrowski is a starting pitching guy. I know that pitching wins. I've seen this offense for far too long, just lay down like dogs in the postseason to where if they don't get another real bat, maybe more deficient this year, it feels like, than

even in the last couple years offensively. I don't get it. I just don't get it, Tucker. And also, like, you've seen this team with the stacked rotation lose playoff series before. Think about the Mets series in 2024. You lost that because your bullpen sucked

and your offense couldn't get any clutch hits, right? Like, Wheeler was great in game one. Game two, obviously was a high scoring game. Game three, no, it was kind of iffy. But then Suarez threw, I think, five shutout in game four before the bullpen blew it. Like, you went into that series with great starting pitching, but your bullpen and offense kind of sucked.

And at this point, you're really in that same boat where, okay, great. Like, you have three horses at the top of your rotation where you know that they can go out and they can give, you a really strong outing, but I just, what are we going to do? We're going to go against the Dodgers again and go 12 innings with only run, run scored? Like, that's kind of where you're ending up.

We're like, oh, man, well, the pitching's great, but even that, it's not because you don't have the depth in the bullet to outlast other teams waiting for the offense to come around. Well, what about this scenario? What about this scenario? Mr. Let's go trade for another starting pitcher instead of getting some real bullpen out.

What if? Crazy concept. Sanchez can only go six. What if Wheeler can only go six? Like Wheeler, for as great as Wheeler's been, great. A lot more six innings than seven, eight. For as great as Sanchez has been, since the scoreless streak, little shaky. A lot of base hits.

A lot more six innings rather than eight innings. So we can talk about the horses you have, and they have legitimate horses. But even those guys have been more six innings rather than seven, eight. and right now, if they go six endings in a postseason start, who are you handing the ball to in the seventh and eighth to get the ball to Deteran? Bolins won. Alvarado's had a good three outings in a row. I'm much more interested in shortening the game and trying to get,

because again, you don't have Brad Keller. He's not coming back, and you need a Brad Keller replacement. You know, they've been interested in Luke Weaver, it seems like. I actually wouldn't mind a reunion with Jeff Hoffman as the, the the k percentage is still really high chase rate still really high the overall number's not great but i think it's fifths 2.6 Tucker so you have to factor he's tipping it up up there in Toronto yeah yeah yeah so it would be a huge to me it's a huge miscalculation a huge miscalculation and i i hope i hope this is not one big thing to try to go and push your chips and go get scoble

I'm sure they would love to get scobled. And scoble's awesome. But it's just a misuse of resources for a team that has so many holes. Yeah, and it's not like you have equal deficiencies across the board, right? Like, it's not like you're looking at your team now. And oh, man, we're an 86 win team. But, you know, if we get one guy, we can really push ourselves over at the top. Like, you have a very clear strength on this roster, which is your starting pitcher.

You have a really clear deficiency at both offensively and in your bullpen. you have the worst OPS plus in the national league right now. Like your OPS plus right now as a team is 88. You have three guys who have really hit well for most of the season. They haven't the last two weeks. Like what have you gone to the postseason and Schorber doesn't hit? Like you did at the beginning of the 22 and 23 postseason. Like that's it.

It's kind of over if Shorebur isn't hitting, if Harper isn't hitting. And maybe you would argue well if they aren't hitting, then you don't have a chance anyway, no matter who's hitting 6, 7, 8, 9 in your lineup. but you have to get guys who can put together quality at bats and grind down pitchers and move guys. Like I think that's the big issue for me with this team right now, especially offensively. They just don't hit situationally all that well. And that feels like an old man thing to say.

Well, it's true, though. It's true. They don't do little things well. Need some small ball. The theme of this. Why are we bunning? Why are we moving, guys? Yeah, I'm good on that.

The disaster scenario is you trade for a guy as a fourth starter. He doesn't even pitch because he lose the first three. three games of the first round. Yep. And he doesn't even get it. He's just sitting out there in the bullpen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

Now, lasting on rotation, encouraging report yesterday from Bob Nightingale that Phillies officials privately and quietly think that Zach Wheeler is going to change his decision of retiring after next year. Obviously, we'll see what next year is like. But that is potentially huge. I mean, he's pitching at a great level. I think the calculus has changed for Wheeler.

from the standpoint of he possibly has a chance to be in Cooperstown. And the way that he keeps pitching, the fact that he came back from this and he's back to being Zach Wheeler is awesome. And if they can convince him, hey, two more years. Maybe that gets you in Cooperstown. The future of the rotations in a very, very healthy spot. If you go Wheeler Sanchez, Lizardo, and then one of, if they keep gauge, you know, gauge kind of right there and maybe you'll maybe painter.

and Nola as well. So as long as you have those three at top, I think you, it really helps keep your window open as a franchise. Yeah. And, you know, like you said,

like it almost becomes a crowded room if he sticks around for a while. And maybe Lazzardo and Sanchez probably jump him as he ages and declines. But, I mean, yeah, you have three guys at the top of your rotation

locked up long term. You have Nola locked up long term. I mean, it becomes almost crowded to the point where, you know, obviously this team only has four legitimate starting pitchers now so they aren't in a position to be getting rid of guys

because they just have an abundance of them but I don't know it'll be interesting three years from now to see those three guys at the top of the rotation if noll is still pitching obviously he's under contract but then you know where does gauge wood fit in where does painter fill in fit in if he's still around at that point I mean in theory you have like six or seven guys who could be starting pitchers for the 2029 Phillies yeah the future of the pitching is actually, I think, a pretty good spot. You know, they have some reliever prospects that they can help if they ever let them pitching the big leagues.

Pretty good spot, I think, on the picking side. And they're all heating up right for the deadline, like Balker shoved. A lot of the Matthew Fisher shoved again. So the future of the rotation, very, very good hands. All right, Tucker, what do you got from me? Some stats you looked up. Situational hitting. Back to that.

Oh, nice. Eight for 43 with runners in scoring position. since the all-star break. Good. Not great. Were they the best in baseball in June in that, from that category? I think they were.

Yeah. Yeah. They went 0 for 15 in one of the games against the Mets, which really inflates that number. But, you know, just checks out, though. Yeah, and the other thing I looked up, like Harper, Schrober, Marsh, or three All-Stars, they each have three hits and one home run since the All-Star break.

Checks out. Checks out. I don't know if they're tired because they actually had to work. It's not like you went anywhere. You stayed home. But, yeah, I mean, one of the reasons why they struggled against the Mets and they struggled against Dodgers, he scored one run and three or four losses. Part of because the three guys that you push to the top of your lineup that should be hitting just haven't been. Yeah, well, you hear all this and you're like, you know what?

Let's go get Joe Ryan. Let's go get a starting pitch. But the real issue is they need starting pitching. The real issue is the five stuff. It's not that the guy who has played in an MVP level for the last year and a half is struggling a little bit. And the guy who's supposed to be elite is struggling a little bit. Don't make that lineup a little bit longer with a real bat. Let's go.

If you're going to October, you need Rincona's hitting six or seven. Oh, a dream. You need your 216 catcher hitting five. And you need a quad A right field or hitting six. I think the Dodgers are shaking in their shorts that Rinconis might be on the playoff roster. Like, ah, how are we supposed to beat this? He did almost turn around 102 mile an hour fastball from Ruff. Just yanked it into the same.

seats from our mop-up guy it's disgusting it was a warning shot it was you got anything else no that's about it all right yeah I think we can say this pretty confidently the Phillies they don't want to show their best against the Dodgers this whole thing was a ruse for October a Trojan

horse if you will yeah they're gonna lock back in and make sure that when October rolls around they'll be good to go well Tucker I think it was a cathartic podcast what a what a frustrated I feel better yeah listen a nice little off day to reset.

Maybe we get a deal today as they are on the quest to find a fifth starter. Where's the, where's, who is the guy? I loved them. He's old tiger's pitcher

with the no-hitter and he's really good for us the beginning of 24. Oh, I looked him up the other day because when we were talking swing men, he was like the perfect swing guy. He was awesome.

In 24, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he got hurt. He was a, starter for a little bit and I'm going to look at his name. Turnbull. Turnbull. Spencer Turnbull.

I love Spencer Turnbull. They need them back. They need them back. Listen, Carrasco to sign overseas. Bring back. Bring back Cookie Carasco. Also, why? Cookie, you know?

I mean, you were in the Cliff Leet trade. That was a long time ago. 2009. 2009. Oh, man. And I did find out yesterday because of Buzz. Yeah, you have to make sure you mentioned Buzz. He seemed very upset by that.

I said, I did just figure it out. I didn't have to say credit the Buzz. Did you realize, did you know this whole time that Rob Thompson was at third base when he's waving Johnny Damon after the... No, I never thought about it. Well, I saw the video, I'm like, well, that makes sense that that was his job. Yeah, yeah, man, old Topper. And it's so funny, Topper was there. In 2008, Boe was in the Dodgers dugout for the...

Boe with the Dodgers is still like a weird thing to see. It's the funniest. It's so baseball, it hurts. Bo was in their dugout, and Davy Lopes is our first base coach. And Victorino has them fighting each other. And they obviously had the famous moment together, you know, that goes down as an awful day in Philly's lower because Lopes, you know, beat the ball out and the Phillies missed the playoffs.

And it's just the symmetry of baseball, just the best. All right. That's going to do it for us. I don't think there'll be a pod until Monday. unless there's a trade. So I'm pretty sure Seltzer's back for that one. I think he is. Okay.

If not. I think it's another fish concert this weekend, but it'll be back next week. Oh, it feels like a tired spot. Feels like a tired spot. All right, that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening. And we'll talk to you soon here on the High Hope's podcast. As the U.S.

Ben's national team takes center stage at a home world cup. Make sure you're listening to Call It What You Want. Part of the CBS Sports Podcast Network, where you can join me. I'm Jimmy Conrad, alongside Charlie Davies, Tony Miola, Marcelo, and Benny Fielhover throughout this tournament for previews, instant reactions, and analysis of every U.S. match. Then all summer, we're back every Tuesday and Thursday covering all things U.S. men's national team. Download and follow, call what you want on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.