High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Reacting To Losing 2 of 3 PLUS An Extended Conversation With Phillies Amateur Scouting Director Brian Barber

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz react to the Phillies' series loss to the Minnesota Twins and then sit down with Brian Barber to discuss the draft and prospect development. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the High Hopes Podcast. High Hopes! On the Odyssey app and Sports Radio 94 WIP. The crowd was singing High Hopes. Smiling through a broken nose. Oh, High Hopes. High Hopes. I feel a little less alone.

Yo! It is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast. And that, honestly, the Phillies have earned a yo. It is a yo there. That yo was because we will try and talk as little about the twin series as possible because we got a special guest coming on today. Our guy back on the pod. Not Bill.

Brian. That's coming up later. We'll get to that in a little bit. Fritzy. Yeah. Man. I know. So we already recorded with Barbara.

Yes, yes. I'm flying high. You're flying high. Couldn't be happier. I say it even during it, but the smile on Jack's face the whole time. It was like literally a kid on Christmas. How can you not be happy talking about A.J. Wilson? I don't get it.

I don't get it. And then I think about yesterday. 95% of the audience going, who's A.J. Wilson? Exactly. But yes, yes. Maybe less than 95%, honestly. I would say 2% of the audience. But it's big stuff.

It's stuff that matters. But then I started thinking about the baseball team, and I think about yesterday, and I think about this twin series, and I think about the last three series. And I'm just so mad they're doing this. I know. I'm so mad that they're doing this because they look like they're leaking oil, which is annoying.

Yesterday was another what we talked about in the last pod. It was like the first game out of the break. It was like the 8-7 game. Yesterday was the second game talked about in the last pod. It was like the first game out of the break. It was like the 8-7 game. Yesterday was the second game since the All-Star break that felt like the 2018 Phillies, the 2020 Phillies, the 2019...

I mean, again, how does that happen? You're up 4-1. Kirkering hits a dude. Brandon Marsh can't catch a baseball. Soto looks good for so long, gets into a high leverage spot,

blows it. It was classic Phillies. Yeah, we got it. Listen, I have been on the Gregory Soto's pitching well thing, but there's still no chance I trust him in any. He just can't be in a... He's not a high leverage guy. Some guys are high leverage guys, some guys are not.

And like, I know he had a million, like, 20 saves, 30 saves for the Tigers. With Detroit! Yeah, and he also had like a four-year, you know, it was not that great that year. He lost 17 games that year, I think, or something for a reliever. Insane like that. It's insane. So, like, I just, I'm disappointed in how they're playing right now, obviously. Like, it's not the end of the world.

Like, I think, like, it's funny because I genuinely do believe this. Like, it doesn't really matter how they're playing right now. They still have the biggest lead in baseball. Their nine-game lead over the Braves is the biggest of any division. They still have the biggest lead in baseball. Their nine game lead over the Braves is the biggest of any division. They're still the top in the National League. They're top in baseball still. I know, but I just don't feel that right now. I know, and now they're going to play

the other best. I mean, Cleveland's legit, legit. You know? I know. I still think they're Mickey Mouse. They're 60-41 or 60-40 or something. Dude, I knew the Yankees weren't playing well. I didn't have any idea how bad it's been. It's been a disaster. I think they're 11 and 23.

Yeah. Dude, it's all people talk about up there now. It's falling apart. It happens every year, though, with the Yankees. This is on par. It's ridiculous. But yeah, I mean, they go, those two, Seattle, who Julio's hurt right now. They're struggling offensively.

Seattle, for the first time in a long time, has given up the AL West lead. Remember, we were all like, oh, Astros are done. They're cooked. They might trade Kyle Tucker. Guess what? The Astros are in first place today. Well, I will say, they've done all this with Kyle Tucker on the AL. I know. Trust me.

My fantasy team knows, buddy. My fantasy team knows. And this might be a directive to whoever runs the Astros now. Oh, I see what you're doing here. This is good. Better without Tucker? You want to send him here? I mean, look, you know.

Send him here? This podcast is better without our producer, Tucker. Exactly. So you know it's possible. So we'll take him. If you would like to get rid of Kyle Tucker, we'll gladly take him. I'm just kidding, Tucker. I love you, buddy.

Don't take it too personally. We're just kidding. But, yes, so like I just – because the sloppiness is back, which is annoying. The bad base running's back. The offense is having me feel like the NLCS all over again, where it's like that pit in your stomach of like. It's like maybe you get an inning. Maybe you get an inning. Dude, they didn't score for 16 innings and then got three off Durant somehow.

Which, by the way, real quick, the Castellanos quote, it's not Scooby-Doo level hilarious, but when Kevin Stocker asked him, hey, they're telling us it's a 98 mile per hour split finger coming in there. Like, what are you seeing? And he goes, I'm seeing a ball coming in really fast. And then it drops. And then Stocker's like like so yeah that that plays

that plays like nick dude he just you really do just go out there and just see ball hit just absolute only science that there is there with nikas yeah it's absolute vibes it actually reminds me of it reminds me of my first home run that i ever hit so i have one career home run nice and it was off a kid who ended up getting drafted. Wow. That's a pretty good one. Well, here's the story. He threw, I don't know, we were like 13, 14.

And he was like sitting low to mid 80s. At 13? Maybe 14 to 15. But yeah, he was throwing pretty hard. He was hard. Yeah. Hard. I don't think I ever saw above 75 at that age.

70. Even older than that. He actually ended up going to UVA as a catcher and then became a pitcher again. But I remember facing him, and I hit a change-up out that I thought was a fastball. I was like, dude, I turned it around on him. You see that, coach? You see that, coach? And then I think my coach said, stop being happy. We lost. I was like, I, I turned it around to them. You see that, coach? You see that, coach? And then I think my coach said, stop being happy.

We lost. I was like, I don't know, man. Like, that's my first ever home run. I'm like a big field. So, yeah, it's just the Cassianos thing. Actually, there's – I don't think I've ever heard you talk about hitting before. I know.

That might be the very first time you've ever brought up you hitting. The only time I ever bring up me hitting is my freshman year on JV. I hit.353. Did you? Yeah. up you hitting. The only time I ever bring up me hitting is my freshman year on JV. I hit.353. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. Stud. Yeah.

I didn't love it. Yeah, I know. You never bring it up. It's a little stress. Wasn't a big hitting guy. But the Cassianos thing is actually interesting because out of nowhere, all of a sudden, he's developed a two-strike approach. Have you noticed that he's-

He's laying off stuff, dude. Well, it's that, he's also uh keeping his foot on the ground yeah yeah it's not like doing the leg yeah so he's actually numbers wise been great for him so he's got like a 9 10 ops 907 ops or something i know i know you're a huge fan of weighted runs created plus it's my favorite i like well but more but i do i'm just kidding i'm very not i don't honestly i've never paid any attention to weighted runs. What? Rated runs?

Weighted runs created plus. Created. I forgot the created. By weighted runs created plus. I didn't know. Is that WRC plus? WRC. Well, lowercase w.

So I've seen that, but I did not know what that stood for. Have you seen it on the Philly scoreboard? It's easier to find weighted runs created plus. And it's like average. I know. The horizontal vertical movement of the pitch and an expected WOBA than it is to find the counts, the miles per hour. I see MVR, which every time, mountain visits remaining.

I don't care. That is the single number one question I've been asked at Phillies games over the last two years. What is MVR? Yeah, it's unbelievable. I'm so glad they got rid of the nice old-fashioned scoreboard. Also, though, like, I know, like, seriously, we've talked about this,

but, like, seriously, so much stuff we don't need. The mound visits remaining, though, like, has, like, maybe, like, once every five years a manager runs out of mound visits. Like, do we really need to know how many are remaining? Do they ever get to the point where, like, up, up, it's a zero, look, it's a manager runs out of mound visits. Like, do we really need to know how many are remaining? Do they ever get to the point where we're like, oh, oh, it's at zero.

Look, it's at zero. No more mound visits. Does that ever happen? I don't remember. Do you remember a time where, I think we had one time where we had a mound visit they didn't have, or was it two in an inning, I think they did once. But like, how often do managers run out of mound visits?

Well, it's ridiculous. I like how mad you got about moundamba's I appreciate that but final point here like I again and tweet us email us if you feel this if you've gone to the ballpark and you're with your buddies have you ever said

man I wonder what his Woba is like everyone like again talk about knowing your audience. I would say 5% of people even know what it is. Yeah.

Like, batting average, we just learned about it. OPS is just starting to heat up. Yeah. Okay. You know.

I know, right. Yeah, exactly. OPS is pretty simple. I feel like people are finally like, okay,

I think I know how OPS is put together. I get it. Like, the horizontal movement of the pitches. And it's just adding two things together. Like, OPS is as easy as it gets. You know what I. Like, the horizontal movement of the pitches. And it's just adding two things together.

Like, OPS is as easy as it gets. You know what I would do instead of horizontal movement and vertical? I would say, Chet, or that pitch was dirty. You know what I mean? Like, simple as that. Like, we're not sitting there breaking down the inches of the horizontal movement. I agree. I'd cosign. Yeah, rant over. Rant over.

But, like, it's just for a team that's been so locked in, they kind of look like they put it into cruise control a little bit, and that's the frustrating part. Season's not over. It's frustrating. I think it's more of a tough stretch than big concern. I think there are concerns.

Stats are concerned 100%. Marsh is a concern 100%. Well, yeah, Marsh, Pache, the whole outfield hitting situation is a concern. And the bullpen now is entered into the chat. the bullpen is now something where it's like they were so good they they do have talent but they're leaking oil like kirkering is 100 percent leaking oil yeah and what's fresh you hear this stat that that uh franski said yesterday no so kirk is six hits by pitch uh six batters hit by pitch zach wheeleler leads the team with seven in a hundred more innings.

I mean, Kirkering got to stop hitting guys. Well, and the frustrating part about that is that Kirkering has good command. I think he has good command. For some reason, he's lost confidence in the fastball, which I don't know why. Again, like what made him, what Kirkering looks like right now

is late or playoff Kirkering last year. Last year, yeah. And what made Kirkering so exciting like you talk about the the met series talk about how he was like pitching in that middle portion was he was dominating with his fastball and letting the sweeper work off it again it's not a sweeper that i think you can throw over and over again and get guys out it's not an aj wilson sleeper sweeper and he did good work it's not that it's not that pitch it's's coming up, by the way. It's coming up.

It's a really good pitch, but I think it only works really well off of the fastball. Eventually, I would like to see him work in. I think he could develop into a third pitch, like a changeup or a splitter. I'm not giving up on Kirkering. It's just for some reason he's getting away from that fastball. I'd like to get back to that. Strom, I still trust Strom with my life pretty much. Brandon Marsh should have caught that ball.

Like, I'm sorry. I know it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy, but Brandon Marsh should get to that baseball. It probably would have been out at CBP, but regardless. But it wasn't CBP. It was not CBP, and he knew that. And Brandon Marsh, by the way, I think – Thompson said postgame was not the shoulder. I totally disagree.

I think that was more – It looked like he couldn't even move. It was absolutely the shoulder. I don't. I think that was more. It looked like he couldn't even move. It was absolutely the shoulder. I don't believe that for a second. And then what are we doing? Like, he can't. Why is he out there? Just put Weston Wilson out there.

Yeah, why is he out there? Yeah, what are we doing? So that was frustrating from yesterday. And Soto, obviously not. Alvarado, they're giving clearly an extended rest here. Which they should. And by the way, Kirkering, too, to the point. I mean, this guy was in college a little over a year ago.

Like, you know, or high A a year ago. College a couple years ago. Like, it wouldn't be surprising if he needs a little blow too at some point. Like, pitching Kirkering all season long feels like a dangerous game. Yeah. And I think that's the problem is you're having it from three guys. Yeah. Like, you're having it from all of them at the same time.

Like, Hoffman's the only one who looks the same. Dude, by the way. What a stud, dude. So I was thinking about this. I was thinking about this yesterday. I know, I, for my money, he's in the top five relievers they've had in my lifetime. No doubt about it.

And I wonder how close he is to one. Like I think Wagner's up there. Lynch, obviously we know that. Has to be Madsen's up there. And I think Hoffman's right there. I think, I think that's howman's right there I think I think that's how good he is I mean

it's a bold statement but right now in this moment I mean he is just watching him he's having one of the best Phillies reliever seasons of our life

he has a one point Alvarado first stretch Alvarado first stretch 2018 Sir Anthony who could forget piece of 1.08 ERA dude I know like he is

he is sick he's a bulldog I know like he really you know we use. He is sick. He's a bulldog. We use that term sometimes. He feels like a bulldog on the mound. In my dream scenario, they get someone for the seventh A, and he's the closer. I think he's the closer. For me, he is my closer.

I want Jeff Hoffman to close game. I want him in the big spots and stuff, but I just feel like he's got that mentality. He's got the way he attacks it. He's also huge and intimidating. Everything about him just feels like he's got that mentality. He's got the way he attacks it. And he's also huge and intimidating. Everything about him just feels like a closer. And if they don't extend Jeff Hoffman, I'm going to lose it.

We're rioting. He's that important. He can get paid, my friend. Yeah, so I think two years, 22 with an option is about fair. It's $11 million a year. I think he probably made more than that. 25? Yeah.

I mean, like, they got Strom at a discount, so use a little extra money to get Hoffman. Whatever it takes. Whatever it takes. And I don't think he would leave. First off, I think they're going to pay him. But, like, he has Cotham here. I think he very much... And look, I do think, look, the Phillies took him off the scrap heap. I do think, you know, they... GM Bryce, baby.

Yeah. By the way, back to the game yesterday, because, you know, we're going to get to Brian Barber in a minute and I do want to talk trade deadline but Bryce's comments I think that's the one other thing that we should talk about coming off of yesterday's game before we get to Barber and the trade deadline and what not but

Bryce very critical of the team which I appreciated and was clearly not happy but I think the most interesting part at the end of the little question and answer session, he gets asked about the trade deadline, and he basically says, Dave will get it done if he wants to. I know. What did you mean?

It was like, if he wants to. I know. It's just a weird add-on there, man. It really was. I didn't know if it was a challenge. I didn't know if it was. I. I didn't know if it was, like, I don't know. I was really hard to parse.

Well, so I didn't hear the audio. You have the audio. Like, you played it this morning. Oh, so you haven't heard it yet. No. He says it pretty quickly. It's not like a big pause or anything. He goes like,

Dave will get it done if he wants to. Like, it's pretty like, like he says it as a sentence. Yeah, that's interesting. I think that, like my read on that obviously is, like, please give,

you gotta give up some of the farm here to go get some difference makers. Bryce saying, Dave, go do this. Yeah, no marginal ads again. Go get some real difference makers in here. And that's what Bryce has done here, man. Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, yeah.

I mean, even when he's not intending to, Jeff Hoffman turns out to be a difference maker. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think that Bryce knows, and I think these guys know. And while the vibes I do think are really important, I think that now the vibeness has been worn off a little bit, given how they've – Because it's a grind. That happens in the season.

It's a long season. But at the same time, they are 19-19 since London. That's pretty crazy. That's a pretty extended stretch of 500 since london that's pretty crazy it's a pretty extended stretch of 500 games that's it's not nothing i didn't realize that they're 19 and 19 since london don't love that they're 24 and 20 since june 1st i don't love that i'm not gonna lie to you so like again yeah camaraderie special clubhouse matters but like you gotta go get if you gotta guys are gonna take guys let's get it, and then we'll get to Brian Barber. The deadline thing, we are

five days out. Coming up on Sunday, we'll do our perfect deadline, assuming Dave doesn't scoop us, which if he does, fine. Whatever. We'll just react to the trades themselves. Let's put it this way. I know your schedule. I'll be around. Pretty much in the breaking news.

I will be ready to record at any point, necessary this weekend I am there um unless I'm doing a radio show and then I'll record after that but that's about it um so where yeah I know the Garrett Crochet rumor came out which is something you had mentioned to me as a possibility uh Morosi puts that out there obvious Luisbert same team has been mentioned uh-huh uh you know we've got mixed messaging coming out as shocking you know from from the reporters you know the you know some people saying you know we had bowden we all remember saying he'll give up the farm we got jason stark out there saying he's not going to trade for make a big trade like it's kind of like mixed messaging out there where you at i'm you at? I'm about this close away from saying I'm never trusting Jim Bowden.

Again, and not to totally rip him, but he put an article out today saying that the White Sox should trade Luis Robert to the Phillies for Mick Abel and Justin Crawford. It's like, dude. What? Just do an ounce of research? Just pay attention a little bit. Just an ounce, you know?

So I just, I just, he's losing a lot of credibility in my eyes. So that's fine. But whatever. It's just where I'm at is that I think the, this happens with the local guys is that like, again, a couple of years ago, it was Ben Brown's untouchable.

Logan Hoppy's untouchable. So I think that what's happening now is a bit of a tempering of expectations. They could go get Lane Thomas and Brandon Finnegan, and they're letting everyone know that could be an option. But that does not make me think that they're not in on big fishes, that they're not in on a real difference-making move. I just think that they don't want to set the expectations so high so that if you don't get that done,

then they're in the position of getting crushed. So I think the one issue with this deadline, and partially because a lot of teams are in it, and partially just because of the way it's chickened out, is there aren't a ton of, at least, look, usually as a guy who gets traded, we don't expect, and that's certainly possible that we're not hearing rumors about it or whatever, but there aren't that many big fishes on the table right now in terms of what the phillies needs

are you know if we're talking about an outfielder it seems like robert is kind of the big fish you know like it doesn't seem like that you know there are other good players randy huh randy's a big fish oh but he is but he's not he's not even as big if like he's like randy's a big fish and then he's played well in the playoffs, but he's not been great this year. He's heavy down here. He's also technically not a fish. He's a ray. He's a ray. It's a good point. He also doesn't have the same level of control as Robert and all that, but even still

like Robert, the point is Robert at his ceiling is a better player than a Rosarena. Or at least Robert's tools are better than Rosarena's tools. That's kind of where I'm going. Sure. But I agree. A Randy because of the playoffoff stuff would feel big but point being like we're not talking about juan soto out there we're not talking about kyle tucker out there we're not talking about like the best players in the sport on the market um what do you think like how in do you think they

really are on robert and potentially crocheting both of them and what do you think it would take to get yeah so i think that i in my gut it tells me that i think that they're in you think it would take to get there? Yeah, so I think that I, in my gut, it tells me that I think that they're in. I think they would try to get both because- If they did it, they would just make it a double. Right, because at this point, if you're going to go with the prospects for one of them, just like- Go the extra mile.

And again, I don't know how you say no. Like this season is, for the most part, outside the last three weeks, has been viewed as special. And we've talked a lot about how these kind of opportunities, these kind of seasons don't happen very often. You have the starting staff the way they are. You have the lineup, the Bryce year, the Trey year, the Boehm year.

A lot of things are aligned. And the mentality where the team itself has only had one goal and one focus, and they're all like, that's it. And the other injuries around the sport have to be factored in, whether you're talking about the Braves, the Dodgers injuries. A lot of things are like, okay, this is the year. If you have the opportunity, and again, I love Aiden Miller, love Andrew Painter, in a perfect world,

I don't want to trade one of them for the guys. But I don't know how you don't just put at least one of them on the table with like Kaba, Klaassen, and Justin Crawford, who again, Justin Crawford's been really good at double A. That's a massive, I mean that's... It's a huge package. It's all your top guys other than one of the top two, essentially. You're basically...

And you're keeping the catcher, the young catcher in the organization. You're keeping some of the other guys. No, there are guys coming down the road, but you're basically giving up all but one of your top 100 prospects. are guys coming down the road, but you're basically giving up all but one of your top 100 prospects. And you're trusting our guys, Brian Barber and Preston Paddingley. Which is why I would do,

I think it's a big, I think that's a big reason why I'm willing to trade prospects because I do believe in the drafting and development now. And I think that they will bring more guys in and they will continue to hit on guys. So I think there will be a surplus of talent

that we can pull from. But we're also talking about the Phillies, and we're talking about giving up four of their five guys in the top 100 in this trade. Yeah, and neither you or I are the old school, bleh, prospects are trading more. We're not like that. It actually does matter having prospects here for the long run. But at the same time, Luis Roberts here for three more years yeah crochet is here for for two more years

they probably extend them like i don't know how you don't have those three all young by the way crochet is 25 robert's 26 like that could also be your future core exactly so i again i don't know how you you turn it down because of prospects when you have the team you have right now, you do need some young talent, and the upside is just the upside. Crochet, we talked about, is on an innings limit. Now there is rumors that if you trade for him and sign to an extension, you can throw the innings limit out. So that could be an opportunity as well.

But the reason why I think I'm so crocheted up, Flaherty was mentioned. It doesn't really make sense for me. Well, other than the fact that he's not a long-term dealer. And he's very good. Well, he's really good. Yeah, he's having a good year. But crochet is more enticing to me because I think-

Because there's future there. And he can go to the bullpen. Right. I don't think they would do that, but you don't think Flaherty could throw out? I mean, he could throw hard. No, I know, but crochet looks like Andrew Miller. Yeah, I know.

I mean, he's only got two- He doesn't even have a, I know, but Crochet looks like Andrew Miller. Yeah, I know. I mean, he doesn't even have a bunch of pitches, guys. He's pitched 24 innings in the last three years. He's hit 111 already. That's a ton. So there's risk there, 100%. Big time. But, dude, if you put him in the bullpen with Strom from the left side, Alvarado hopefully on his way back, Crochet, who, again,

you talk about 7'8", Hoffman 9th, it's lockdown. I mean, Crochet out of this bullpen is lockdown. I think going out and getting Robert, I want Randy really bad too. I think in a perfect world, I would like Randy and Crochet, but whatever. Robert, I think, is still really, really good. It's a high prospect cost. Maybe because he costs less. Costs less, and I love the playoff riser.

I trust him more. Yeah, I trust him. Robert, I think the talent is more. But again, you know, who knows? He's also, the other thing on Robert real quick is that he is, so the injury stuff, I hear you. The hitting-wise stuff, like, he's the guy in that lineup. Like, Andrew Vaughn's not very good anymore.

Benintendi stinks. He's the only threat. He comes here, and he's surrounded by Harper. It's a great point. And Schwarber. It's a only threat. He comes here and he's surrounded by Harper and Schwarber and Turner. And I would bat him forth. You have Bone behind him, Cassiano's behind him. There's just so much

upside with Luis Robert. Again, even a year ago, he had 38. 38. There's been a little bit too much Luis Robert sucks for me that I can't take it. That's the a little bit too much Luis Robert sucks for me that I can't take it. That's the all-in move. If it's on the table,

I don't know how Dave says no. The other moves are really interesting. If I could find a way to get Tanner Scott too, I would. The crochet Robert thing for me, it's right there. They want to trade both, apparently, so they can get the most.

You don't want that package going to the Dodgers. Which would be the team most... Them or the Orioles, probably the two most. And even then, the Orioles are probably not as much. Yeah, the Orioles are going to get closer. And the Red Sox apparently are interested in both of them, but they're not really a threat to you. No, but the Red Sox are winning games. They are. Who did you think? High and Bloom didn't set them up

so bad. I actually like that Red Sox. Ah, High and Bloom. Just saying. Core extended, so he will not be the Phillies manager for a little bit. I think we're all right on that.

We're all right. We're all right on the manager, but man, I just, again, equal parts nervous and excited about the trade deadline. All right, so on Sunday, we are going to do our perfect deadline

in addition to reacting to a really big Guardians, I almost said Indians. I know. Guardians series coming up here. It should be a fun one Sunday. We'll really get into it. Let's get into it now, though.

What a treat. What a treat it was. Extended time. Our guy gave us over 30 minutes of hanging and talking about the entire draft and really taking us inside the draft room. I thought some super fascinating stuff about what an MLB draft room is like. Stuff you don't really get to hear that often. It was really a thrill.

Let's go now to our interview with our guy, Ryan Barber. Hey, fantasy football owners. The road to winning your fantasy football championship starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from Reception Perception. Join me and James Coe as we take a deep dive into the position that's going to make or break your fantasy roster. Wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share, and all the metrics that matter, giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers. As you prep for your draft, let us give you the coverage you need. Follow and listen

to Reception Perception on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, and it is our distinct pleasure to welcome back to the podcast during a very exclusive group of multiple-time guests on the pod, the Phillies director of amateur scouting, and since we last talked to him now, assistant general manager, guy mr brian barber brian how are you sir i'm doing great this morning it's obviously been a busy uh last couple weeks for us on our end but super excited with the hall we've got most of the guys are down in clear water

as of today and starting their professional careers and as always it's an honor for me to be on the high hopeses podcast this morning. Oh, you're way too kind, Brian. Way too kind. We're going to have to cut that audio and make sure we add that to the intro. And I just want to give credit to James Seltzer. He did not call you Bill Barber. I didn't.

Well, we still have some time. All right. Let's not get carried away here. My worst moment in the history of the pod. Thank you for bringing it back. Yes. Just one of those surprise things at the end, just trying to make sure I remembered my own name.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. So you just wrapped up your fifth draft, which is crazy. You know, I mean, 2020 feels like almost an eternity ago. I mean, how do you feel about this draft overall? And do you feel comfortable kind of with your draft process now that your fifth one's underway? Do you feel like it's always kind of ever-changing i i do think it's ever-changing it's evolving and you

always sit there at the end of the at the end of the i guess after the draft process and go back and try to think do you know try to look over the things that you think you did well the things that you think you can improve on the process that's involved the people that are involved there are just you know since this is my 23rd year in scouting total, obviously fifth year over here with the Phillies running the draft, but you know, there's so many more people that work in baseball now and in different departments and trying to be able to add all the information that they're able to bring to the table as well. It's an always evolving process

and just trying to improve the way that you do things. Yeah, and the one thing that I really want to kind of get your perspective on or what it's like, can you, for as best as you can, take us inside the draft room? Because obviously I'm curious about this. I think our listeners are curious about this. When it reaches the 20s,

I kind of envision it as this chaotic scene. You're trying to get guys to get floated down. You're thinking about second rounders. What is kind of inside the draft room, as best as you can, in the 20s as the chaos level or kind of what you're doing? I think that the chaos level is more trying to find out what's going to happen in front of you. We all have friends that work for other teams and you're trying,

like on my end, I'm trying not to bother the director of the other teams that they're doing important work on their end, but we all have friends that are also in the draft room. So you get to a point that, I mean, basically for about the first 20 picks, you just sit there and see who gets drafted and, and all the time that you spent watching those guys.

Then when it gets to about pick 22, it starts getting, it's all right, let's see what we can find out. And you get to that point about pick 22 or 23 where unless something crazy happens, you basically know what's going to happen in front of you. So not only do you have the five minutes in between each pick, but you've also saved yourself about maybe 20 extra minutes of time. But basically, Jack and James, I mean, all that work has been done beforehand. Your board has been set up.

The different scenarios that you're being presented, you should have already gone through, whether it's in the full group or in my own head, of what I think is going to happen. But yeah, it happened the same way last year when we were able to take Aiden, where you had about the same amount of time, and this year it happened the same way. So the chaotic part is trying to find out who's going in front of you,

not necessarily what you're going to do. To that point you just made, i think it's so fascinating because i you know i assume when you're doing a draft and to your point 22 23 you've got a few guys that you're interested in or you would be willing to take at that spot do you know the guy you want no matter what and and have you been in a situation where you know that guy goes right before you and you're or you always have a one two three four and if one gets taken them are taken two and if two gets taken them are taken three do you always just trust your board implicitly or are there ever situations where guys are kind of similarly graded you're in a similar spot and you're kind of

in those five minutes deciding who to take a little bit of both uh it's it's you you do hopefully like i said you've gone through the all the different scenarios in your head and you have the board lined up to where hey if this guy is here when we pick we're going to take him and yes a hundred percent there are people that go in front of you that you liked a lot as well and and and we're possibly hoping they were going to get to you but you know you know, like last year, it just happened to work out where Aiden Miller, it's like we really liked him, and he does happen to get there for various reasons. And this year with Dante Norrie, it's sort of the same thing. This is a guy that, like, I've had a man crush on going back to last year.

I mean, we were able to watch him. And the first time I really, really bear down on them was about, you know, almost a year ago to the day from right now as when we start doing the East Coast Pro Showcase and the area codes and you watch those guys

for about a 10 day run and they're facing basically the best competition they're going to face for the rest of the rest of the time until they're drafted. You're using wood bats. They're playing on bigger fields.

And you're able to see everything they can do there. And, you know, that was a guy that I had pinpointed that I knew. And obviously I'm not alone there. Several people in the room, it's like we want him to be a Philly, and how can we make that happen? Yeah, that's exciting. I was going to ask you about Dante because there's a couple things going on with him. Obviously,

I did appreciate, I was stuck in the Toronto airport and you took a Toronto kid. I feel like you and I were on similar wavelengths. But he is an older high school kid. I think he's going to be close to 20. How much do you factor that in? And a lot of the

public boards, obviously they're not where the team boards were, were a little bit lower on them. What really stood out to you as to why you want to make sure Dante Nori was a Philly? Yeah, well, obviously I don't think Dante lived in Toronto very long. He just happened to be there when his dad was coaching. Obviously, I don't know if you guys, obviously his dad's an NBA coach and they traveled a lot throughout his youth. So he was in Toronto at the time there. But in all honesty, it's, you know, my job is to know everything that I can know. And it's our job to know everything that we can know. So, yes, I know exactly where he was ranked on public rankings.

And, no, our boards do not line up the same way as those. You see that in every draft. I haven't gone through and done my total review yet of the entire draft, but I know of at least four or five guys that were drafted in the first round that publicly were not supposed to be first-rounders. And going to the age thing, yes, it's a factor. There's no doubt about it. Younger is better.

But in my mind mind better is better than average or good is better than and this is a player that if he was 18 i don't think there's any chance he makes it to us and we did the work in the right way that the way the way things were you know 20 years ago when we've done all these studies of why it's more advantageous to take an 18 year old versus a 19 year old is going back to the days where amateur scouts didn't see these players in the summer against the best competition and you only saw them on the high school stage playing against 15, 16, 17-year-olds and those 19-year-olds would dominate. We're just in a different world than we were back then where we get 100 at-bats in the summer against the best competition.

And I think it's our job to be able to evaluate those players individually, whether they're 17.9 or 19.6. So yeah, younger is better, but good is better than not good. So I think Dante Norrie is really, really good. And that's why we took him. All right, Brian, I want to ask one more about the process and the whole thing, because I think it's fascinating to go into the draft room we don't get those type of opportunities especially in baseball sometimes you'll see those videos of football locker or you know um draft rooms come out and some baseball we very rarely get to go in there so one more

about that and then i'll let jack just completely nerd out with you we got a lot to cover i'm gonna just lay out and let jack ask you about every single person that you drafted. But one more question about the process as it relates to the whole room. I know you and Preston work very closely. How's your relationship moved since last year in the past year both the CIS and GMs

now but also like how does the room work with Dave Dombrowski in there? I know like again to use football as a reference at the end of the day Howie Roseman he says goes is it super collaborative in that room how involved in Dave how how involved is Dave how involved is everyone at the end of the day do you just say this is the guy we're taking if it comes down to that how does that collaborative process work in the draft yeah I mean it's so basically I'll take you back and and we have we started obviously we've done meetings we've done talks and beforehand but when we get to philadelphia it was july the 6th

so we're you know the draft started on the 14th so as a group in philadelphia in the draft room we started on july the 6th and that was with scouts only in the room for two days and and i just wanted to get all their opinions before we brought in other people from different departments and and to get their opinions that i was i was totally aware of what every single scout thought on every player without you know being biased by anybody else in the room and and then and then after that um it just happened to turn out that we came back into town on the 8th, I believe it was, and more people joined the room. So Dave is there in every meeting that we have.

Obviously, he does not stick around on necessarily guys we're going to talk about down the board. But whenever we're talking about a player that ends up on our main board. He's involved in those meetings and basically just listens. He'll turn to me and have a thought or a question, but very rarely does he speak in the room about who he likes or trying to pressure us on who to take. So you have Dave, it's Sam Fold, it's Ani, it's Jorge, Preston, all those guys are in the room from the front office we have various people from our analytics and r&d department that are in there uh people that are

dedicated to you know pitching stuff models and and hitting models that we do and we have brett melee who's who's our specific uh amateur scouting analyst along with all the different scouts that are in there so yeah i mean we have people from four or five various departments that are in there. They all give their opinion. When it comes down to it, Dave turns to me and says, what do you want to do, Brian? And he allows me to do what I and we want to do there. Love it. And two names we didn't hear in there was obviously me and Seltzer, but we'll work on that.

We'll work on that. Well, we do have to keep secrets on our end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, at least for the late round, guys, I mean, we've got so many reliever types to get into. Oh my god, you should, Brian, you're always about to do it, but on our recap pod, the way he whacks poetic

about your 11th through 16th round picks, honestly, Jack would have taken them all in the first round. That's how excited he is. I might let him give me the rundown. I kid you not. I was in Canada. I was on vacation, which is probably a bad move by me.

Being on vacation. Yeah, be better. Well, because I'm trying to be engaged with the family. But hold on, man. We took Titan Hayes in the 11th. He was going to be a legend in this bullpen. We'll get to it. We'll get to it, and we'll get to Marcus

Morgan being the next Luis Castillo. You're in for it, Brian. That's the takeaway. Let's go. I want to talk about Griffin Burkholder because I thought he was a guy that was starting to rise late. Obviously, the West Virginia commit seems like a really high makeup guy.

You've talked a couple times about how he came to CBP and kind of put on a show. What can you tell us about Griffin Burkholder? Yeah, I mean, in the scouting world, he was not a late riser.

In the publications, he might have been, but in the scouting world from the very first game of the year, he had people, high-level people going in to watch him. Probably the biggest negative

on Griffin's year this year is he dealt with two different hamstring strains during the year and took them out of some games and and times for people to be able to see him so he's a phenomenal athlete he's phenomenal he has phenomenal tools he's been a hitter everywhere that we've seen him going back to last summer, throughout the spring. You know, the show that he put on, not just at Citizens Bank Park after his season was done, but also at the MLB Combine, where he's averaging 102, 103, and he's maxing out at 110, 111 in batting practice, which is really, really impressive for an 18-year-old. The tools are ridiculous.

They're really good. The ball-year-old. The tools are ridiculous. They're really good. The ball player is really good. The makeup, the personality is awesome. You know, just couldn't be more excited to be able to bring him in as well at pick 63. I mean, obviously, you know, the difference on the board between Dante and Dante Nori and Griffin Burkholder was a lot, a lot closer than it happened to be in the draft.

And I'm just super excited we were able to get him at pick 63. Do you think he can stick in center field, or do you think he ends up more corner? Oh, no doubt he can play center field. That's awesome. That's a strong answer, too. No, no, no. He's at least a lot our

scouting scale 70 which would be well wow that'll play i mean he was the third fastest runner at the major league combine this year and that was when he was still just getting back from his hamstring injury so uh yeah i mean that the speed is again dante's speed is 70 or 80 times, and Griffin's is at least a 70 as well. Well, I'm just about ready to go get my jersey. Don't you worry. And it's interesting because your first four or your first five picks were more the speedy center field type.

What was kind of the thought process behind that was just trying to get athletes in the building? With Crawford already in the system, too. You know, a guy like that already, too. That one sort of lined up that way. That was not necessarily like a strategy going in. Obviously, you know, we as scouts, when the process starts for us in evaluating a player, tools are the first thing that we zero in on.

And there's various things. Like in our scale, I'm not going to get into all of them but there are like six varying six various um things that we're looking at in a player and tools is the first and the first thing that jumps out at you so we're going to like players that have good tools and and can hit as well and i think that was just a combination of all those guys where it's like we really like the tools. We really like the hit tool. And they have the performance to back it up on that end as well.

So, you know, I will be honest. At a certain point in the draft, I turned to Preston and was like, don't worry, I'm not going to give you any more center fielder. So, I mean, and that's all honesty. But at that point, you know, we have five teams, including the complex. You have three outfield spots. So you have 15 outfield spots that are being filled on an everyday basis in the minor leagues. And it's like we have the room to bring them in.

So I don't want to force their hands too much with things that they can't handle. But I'm just not going to pass up guys that early in the draft that we really like that just happen to play the same position right now. I will say for the next year and a half I don't think a ball is going to fall in in Jersey Shore or Clearwater. We had some already there and we just added a few more ball hawks

out in the outfield. So Spikerman, John Spikerman, your third round pick from Oklahoma, had a broken handmaid thing. It seems like you guys like taking guys with broken handmaid bones. Do you think that may have zapped a little bit of the power this year, and you think that he can get back to the pre-broken handmaid kind of hit tool stuff? Yeah, we do. I mean, one thing, now that he doesn't have a handmaid,

you don't have to worry about it breaking anymore. And it's really once they come back from it, there's no real negative to that consequence of know that consequence of not having the hamate bone so we saw him before the injury we really liked him he came back he hit he hit really well after the injury the impact on the ball wasn't quite there all the way yet because he did come back very quick from the injury way quicker than than than we might do on on the pro side but also understandable of why he's doing it on his end as well. So, yeah, again, the hit tool, the impact, the bat,

especially from the left-handed side, and the ability to just the athlete and the makeup there as well with him was just too much to pass up for us in the third round to pick 100. Yeah, speaking of the left side, Carson Demartini probably would have gone higher if he didn't get hurt. He seemed like one of the better college hitters in the draft. There is some swing and miss concern with him. I think he struck out like 70 times last year.

Do you guys watch that and say, ah, that's something we can fix? Or do you think it's more he's a year out from the labrum surgery, he'll get back to being the earlier Carson Demartini? Combination of both there, Jack, where it's like we identified some things on our own. And when we had the opportunity to meet with Carson in the room, and at the time it was me and Luke Merton, who's our director of hitting, and Preston Mattingly, and we grilled him on the differences between both the health and how that affected him this year and then the differences between basically what you brought it

up the strikeout rate between his sophomore year in college and the junior year in college and what changes he had made and why he tried to make them and we talked that out a little bit and tried to from our side what he was telling us lined up exactly what we thought and so we think we're going to like be able to come up with a marriage of the hivability of his sophomore year along with the power of his junior year um and bring that back right now obviously he's gone through the physicals he's a philly that the shoulder that that he dealt with is a lot less of a concern than than even we thought going possibly into the draft it's just it should not be a concern from here on out.

Carter Matheson, he's I think sixth all-time in Indiana baseball history in home runs. So, I mean, listen, you took Norrie, who's got Schwarber connections, Indiana, another Schwarber school, so you're going to the Midwest. You're going to the Big Ten. So it seems like he's got a great eye at the plate. What can you tell us about Carter Matheson?

Yeah, I mean, a little bit of both. He was identified by Derek Ross, our scout that runs that area, early on, going back to last fall, of a potential high pick. And he dealt with a few injuries along the way this year. They were on the very minor side. And it was just the guy at that point with the tool package, with the hit, with the power that we thought was just, again, just weren't going to pass up.

It's like you don't – before the draft, if you had told me we were going to take four center fielders out of our first five picks, I'd have thought you were crazy. But when the guys – just honestly, I mean, but when the guys end up being there like i said baseball is so different than all the other sports and and you just don't you you don't have to worry about that and it's just do you think he's the best player when you pick yes let's take him we have room to figure that out like i said we have various teams that these guys can play on and and

the center fielder can also play right field or left field at times as well. So we have, like I said, we have 15 outfield spots in the five minor league teams. We have plenty of room for these guys to develop. Look, I think listeners love to hear that. I know that whenever we talk any sort of draft, all people want is take the best dude there. Like take the guy you believe is the best player and figure it all out later. So it seems like that's kind of the philosophy, and we appreciate that. Well, good.

Because I really think that's what we try to do. And just like once Jack gets into his rundown on the day three relievers that we took, it's like we are trying to find big leaguers. Yeah. Every single pick. And the further you get down, probably the smaller opportunity is for these guys. But when they bring in like a one special quality or two special qualities or, you know, a big pitch, a big two pitches. So you're not going to get the total package that takes 400 in the draft.

You're just not going to. So what can I find that we can identify that gives that guy an opportunity to play in the big leagues, to impact our Phillies team, to have value in the industry? You're looking at all those different things. So you just want to try to bring in,

you know, quality people, quality tools, quality performance, you know, various degrees of all those things. And it's not always going to be the total package with all these guys. I can tell you that. Every single player on the board, I can find a negative with them, whether that's pick one or pick 615. Yeah, I'm sure.

Well, I do think that you did build the 2026 bullpen going from round nine on. Just so you know with that comment, Brian, that Jack has been talking about the 2026 Phillies since we started the podcast in 2017. You're building towards it. You're building towards it. I do think most of us in the organization are a little more zeroed in on the 2024 Phillies.

Me too, buddy. Me too. With 2026 in mind. Right. Phillies. Me too, buddy. Me too. With 2026 in mind. Hopefully, your boss and our favorite Dave Dombrowski is focused on 2024 as well. Let's get into it. Cameron Hill. Now we're getting into it. Now we're really getting into the weeds

here. Cameron Hill, you talk about a wipeout slider and dominating the Cape. That's what I saw. Is Cameron Hill one of those guys where it's like, alright, there's the one pitch that's obviously pretty wipeout and that's his slider?. Is Cameron Hill one of those guys where it's like, all right, there's the one pitch that's obviously pretty wiped out, and that's his slider? Yeah, I mean, you sort of go to identifying sort of the same thing. Last year on the Cape, Cam was one of the better pitchers there.

You know, it's minimal amount of innings that they throw. If I remember right offhand, I think it was 36 innings that he threw in the Cape, but we identified a 6'6 athletic left-hander that's up to 96, 97 at times with a good slider. It hasn't replicated at Georgia Tech for his career, but we also saw the flashes of it. And when you're trying to find guys like that in the eighth round, the building blocks that he has begin with a 6'6 athletic left-hander

up to 96, 97 with a slider, it's like you're not going to do a whole lot better than that. And then when you add the makeup that he has the intelligence that he has and and the idea of some of the things that we are to identify that we think we can improve there it was like okay i'm not passing that up there at that point um brian you just talking it's so funny because you're we're similar ages like when i was growing up when i was a kid like you would have just said he's not he throws 97 he's a lefty you'd be like oh he must be one of the best pitchers in the sport like it is so amazing what these guys do now yeah we're in a different world like i said as we go into that you'll you'll hear various guys i mean we'll

get into it right now i mean titan hayes ourth round pick, has been north of 100 miles an hour. Yeah. That's wild. The idea that you're going to find, and obviously it's a reliever and he's had some health history, but to find a guy that's been north of 100 miles an hour in the 11th round at pick 342 is just nuts. It's still nuts to me as well.

It really is. It's nuts. It's awesome. And listen, I know that you have your draft philosophy, my draft philosophy. Just give the ball to Hergert, Travis Hergert, and let him kind of cook down there. So I think we're on the same page there.

Marcus Morgan, of all your draft picks, I think he's my favorite. Griffin Parkholder, Dante Norris, very excited about. But Marcus Morgan, you just watch him and you can see that there's obvious tweaks that he can make and he's turning into, I mean, there's legitimate high-end starter upside to Marcus Morgan, you just watch him, and you can see that there's obvious tweaks that he can make, and he's turning into, I mean, there's like legitimate high-end starter upside of Marcus Morgan for me. Yeah, it's one of the more frustrating guys for us that we watch,

and there's no blame to be put on anybody, and whether that's more, you know, Marcus, you know, we've talked to him quite a bit before the draft and now after the draft about pitch usage and different things, and they're different guys so don't let me don't take this too far but what we're going to do with Marcus is a lot similar to what we did with George Clawson once we drafted him we're going to try to simplify a lot of things that he that he does right now simplify it to the things that he does

really well allow the arm the arm talent the slider the sweeper to play and just zero in on those right away and get him moving in the right direction the type of arm that he has we've seen him up to 98 he's got a sweeper that grades out as well above average and just try to simplify a few different there's two things we've identified in the delivery that we're going to try that we think are going to make an automatic, a very quick turnaround in the strike growing, get him throwing his fastball more often, and then have those wipeout breaking balls as the out pitches. Yeah, that's awesome.

I wish you could see Jack right now, Jack. We're only over the phone right now. Jack is like bouncing in his seat with his biggest smile. This is great. This is my favorite thing of all time. I can tell. You know, when we got on last year, I remember you guys joking around about Jack being a draft nerd seat with the biggest smile. This is great. This is my favorite thing of all time. I can tell. When we got on last year, I remember you guys joking around about Jack being a draft nerd.

It's like, I am too. We get deep into the weeds on these guys and try to find out the things that we like about the players. Like I said, there's negatives on every single player on the board, but try to find the things that you identify as being positive and the things that you identify as being positive

and the things that these guys can do and how we can either improve that, accentuate it, and can we either live with the negative or can we improve it? Those are all things that we're trying to identify throughout the year, but especially in the draft room itself. Yeah, so in the later middle rounds, you went for some other funky looks. I want to talk about A.J. Wilson because he looks like he'd get big league outs right now with that sweeper.

I think it's graded out as one of the best sweepers from the left side in the country. A.J. Wilson, he just kind of looks like a big leaguer. A.J.'s an older kid, but as we've all seen in professional baseball, the players take jumps at ages 22, 23.

Sometimes at age 26, they take a big jump. So it's our job to stay on these players and identify those. So, yeah, we've got a big left-handed pitcher that's up to 95, and his sweeper grades out as well above average or higher on our sub model scale so we you know does he and he throws it a lot and he struck out a lot of guys with it and he got a ton of swings and misses with it you know that's thing one thing that we'll have to figure out is does it stay at that 75 usage level does that drop down a little bit to allow the fastball to play maybe slightly better, but again, it's a guy that when you have left-handed

and that type of grade on a slider sweeper, it's just like, how can you pass it up then? I agree. I promise, only a couple more, James. I promise. I love it. Teagan Cain, I mean, the stuff

immediately kind of pops. But again, a little bit more of a funky look. Kind of seems like you guys went more for some different looks this year out of some of the bullpen guys late. What can you tell us about Teagan Cain? Teagan is a guy that just this past year he dropped down his arm slot. He was more of a traditional three-quarter to high three-quarter guy in the past, and he dropped it down to low three-quarter to almost sidearm at times, and all of a sudden he gained velocity.

And he went from throwing in the low 90s to the upper 90s with that arm slot, and he's got the slider to go with it. So it's a guy that, you know, once we saw the pop and stuff with that, it was just like you brought up you are trying to find something that these players that do unique that give them value that give them prospect upside to give them an opportunity to play in the big leagues and so you get a low you know a low three-quarter sidearm guy that's up to 97 98 we saw him up to this year with the slider it's like you don't see a whole lot of those guys in the big leagues. Maybe that gives them an opportunity to get there. So again, it's sometimes as simple

as that. Unique qualities with really good stuff. Yeah. Luke Gabrish was a kid. So he was St. Joe's kid, local kid. He was like, I guess he's a row away from the bedlam of the bank home run. So like, obviously... He took a picture with the ball, which is great. I actually didn't know that until after the draft. Oh, cool. That's awesome. That's awesome. But so he had like a 60 with the ball, which is great. I actually didn't know that until after the draft. Oh, cool. That's awesome. That's awesome.

But, so he had, like, a 60-year-old, I think, at St. Joe's. Went to the draft league. You guys seemed to like the draft league. I think you took Devin Saltaban out of the draft league last year. A couple guys in the draft league. And then Luke went there and was a closer for his team. What do you think about Luke Gabrish? Yeah, that's one.

It's one of the advantages of the later draft. I'm not sure there are a ton of them on our side, but one of the advantages of the later draft is the opportunity to continue seeing these guys play. And maybe they get in a different role, or maybe they get, you know, rested or off an injury. In Devin Saltabon's case, obviously the biggest advantage there was us being able to see him against better competition than we saw in the high school in Hawaii. But Luke got to the draft league and all of a sudden the stuff popped there and the late inning rolls. And we also had an opportunity to bring him to Citizens Bank Park for a workout before the draft as well.

And again, it's a low slot guy. It's up to 97. The sweeper grades out, you know, in the 60s to 70 range on our scouting scale. And you don't know what's going to happen with all these guys. I don't know. I mean, we identified him at St. Joe's, but also identified a different player in the draft league at our workout. And if we can continue to get what he showed us there in those, in those outings,

then I think we've got a pretty good pick in the 15th round. And last one here, Eli Trop, uh, seems like a lead extension. Like he can get really low. Uh, I think it was like an,

almost in the fives extension wise. Uh, and also another, like you said, up to 97 per usual. All of them. It was like you throw 98. Okay. You're, you're a Philly. Dude, it was like, you throw 98? Okay, you're a Philly.

What can you tell us about Eli Trout? Yeah, he's got one of those, you know, we've had guys call him like a unicorn fastball that you just don't see very often where the combination of extension, the ride to the fastball, the VAA quality that he has on there, and then the huge swing and miss rates

that he was able to to to get on those and he uses it a lot his fastball the velocity was down early in the year he got it back back he's got it back at the end of the year and we saw it all last year so uh once we it was you know obviously a upenn guy he was committed to go to texas afterwards he got a hold of us and just said that he wanted to sign. And once we figured that out, it was like a no-brainer. Again, a unique quality you're looking for, and I think the guy has a unique fastball.

And actually, his slider grades out pretty well, and we think we can build some more confidence with that pitch as well. All of a sudden, you get, I'll continue to say it, like a unicorn fastball in the slider. That improves. Pretty good combination. Listen, if you say unicorn fastball. I was in on unicorn. You didn't even say anything after it.

It was like, I heard unicorn. I was like, I am so into it. Unicorn fastballs in the 15th round, baby. God, I love the draft. Jack's so excited. I'm so happy. And thank you for humoring us and letting us dive so deep. I love talking about these guys.

Like I said, this is my world. And when we do the draft, like for all of us that are in the room on the scouting side, this is our World Series. This is our Super Bowl. You know, we work 365 days of the year for July 14th to the 16th this year. So it's really important and meaningful to us. It's meaningful to the organization and what direction it's going, what we're able to do, whether that's just industry value and trades or getting to the big leagues and helping those guys win.

So we realize what we do is important, and it's really important to us, and these players are really important to us. We love that. And you actually just, Mike, last question, you actually just led into it. It's a perfect lead-in, so thank you. You're on fire right now. I always wonder, you know, a guy in your role, and you mentioned it, look,

you understand the business of baseball. The Phillies are the best team in baseball right now. Best record, you're trying to win a World Series. They're going to make trades. That's going to happen. The trade deadline is five days away when you're a good team. You trade prospects and try and add to the major league team.

But you're the guy who took these guys, who scouted them, who put all this time and effort. And I know you're helping the team. And I know at the end of the day, it's your job and you understand the business and all that. But how hard is it just personally for you to kind of see some of your babies, so to speak? Some of these guys that you put all this effort into, that you believe in, that you believe in their future on your team, get traded away. You understand the baseline and know that, that it's for the good of the Phillies and that's all that matters.

But is there a part of you that this is a tough time of year for you in a way? Yeah, you know, it's hard. And I've had the opportunity to work for a couple of pretty good organizations. And I was with the Yankees before this. And that was just part of what we dealt with there as well for 18 years. In my five years here now, and obviously we've improved the last few of those five years to where we are. I don't think we're one of the better major league teams in baseball. We're one of the better organizations in baseball from top to bottom now. I think we're getting there so um yeah it's hard it's it's hard when when we sign a player in in the offseason and

we lose draft picks for it but you also look and it's like okay am i mad we got zach wheeler no no so it's like i'm i'm fine you know do i do i wish we had all our picks yeah i i do but i'm more happy that we have trey turner and zach wheeler on our team so you know when the time comes that the potential trades and the guys that are talked about you have to take off your bias cap of the of the person that drafted them and is this the best move for the phillies organization so and and for the major league team it's not just you know and it's always not just a now thing is how does this affect our team both now and in the future so you're trying to you know you're trying to balance those two things out and

and take off your bias cap of yes i'm the guy that that originally brought the player in but what is what is the best opportunity for the Phillies right now? It's a hard balance, I can tell you that. Yeah, it's got to be. But we'll protect the guys, don't you worry. We'll do the best that we can. Final one for me, again, can't thank you enough for your time. Are we going to see each other

in the locker room again in October? Come on, that was special. I can tell you what, that's the plan right now, and obviously we've got some things. We'll see what happens within the next Come on. That was special. I can tell you what. That's the plan right now. And obviously, we've got some things. We'll see what happens within the next week where the Phillies team is. Right now, we're riding high. It's a good team.

And I sure hope I see, again, some champagne popping there. All right. Yes. We'll start talking 2025 drafts in a little bit. Don't you worry. Well, I can tell you this. We're already out seeing the players. So our board is not nearly done.

We've got a lot of time for that, but we're already out scouting them. Well, Brian, get back to scouting. I can't tell you how much we appreciate the extended time. I've already told you this. You've made Jack's, I was going to say week. It might be year here. I need this pick-me-up after the last couple of series. I think our listeners are going to really

appreciate this interview instead of us talking about yesterday's game. Seriously, Brian, thank you so much, man. We can't tell you how much we appreciate it. James, Jack, thank you for the time. I appreciate the support from you guys and I hope everything that we do is going to prove you guys right with your

support, so thank you. Yep, and I'm sure the listeners are excited about A prove you guys right with your support. So thank you. Yep, and I'm sure the listeners are excited about A.J. Wilson, Teagan Cain, Eli. That's where they were like, all right, there's the nitty-gritty. There's the nitty-gritty. I hope from Dante Norrie down to Tyler Hartman, 20th round, and the six post-draft guys, I hope they're all names that eventually they will know.

Thank you again. I appreciate it. You're the best they will know. Yes. You know, thank you again. I appreciate it. You're the best. Thank you, Brian. Dude, he's the best. Like, he's just the best. He was so fired up to talk. I couldn't believe it.

I'm like, why are you fired up to talk to us? We're fired up to talk to you, my friend. I spared you the 15th or 20th round pick, by the way. That was nice of you. I was shocked. I thought you were going to go every single one. So you want to know how my problem was? Yeah. Couldn't find videos on Twitter of those guys. There you go.

Okay. So you would have. Easily, dude. You kidding me? You kidding me? But yeah, dude. Obviously, we're rooting for him. I love it. I'm so all in on Brian Barber. I think they've done a really good job. Obviously, I have my questions about Dante Nori. I think that he did a really good job.

He made me feel, because again, obviously, I know nothing about Dante Nori other than his name. And what you have told me, and being a little lukewarm at first, he made me feel a lot better about it. Just remember, I was lukewarm about Justin Crawford and Andrew Painter, too. Yes, and Andrew Painter. Yeah, exactly. So let's keep that in mind.

Let's keep that all in mind. Jack is not infallible with this stuff. In fact, he's quite fallible. Way fallible. Except about Marcus Morgan. And Aiden Miller, man. So let's keep that in mind. Jack is not infallible with this stuff. In fact, he's quite fallible. Way fallible. Except about Marcus Morgan. And Aiden Miller, man. You nailed that. I did nail Aiden Miller.

You were all over that. So, you know. It was, by the way, heating up a little bit at Jersey Shore. A little groin injury. Let's hope he's still someone we love in five days. Let's hope he's a Philly. We'll do whatever we can. But yeah, that was,

and for the listeners that don't care about the draft, very sorry. No, it was, look, if you like baseball, it's got to be interesting. I would think. Yeah. And look, think about it this way. Maybe not all of them,

but like someone who we talked about that interview could end up being someone who is, you're wearing his jersey someday. Like, think about that, you know? All right. You got anything else? No. All right.

We'll be back on Sunday. Perfect deadline. React to the Guardians here. Can we, Jack? We were joking around earlier in the season. Oh, yo, let's see. Two of frickin' three. Two of three, baby.

Okay, enough already. Enough. And trade for Nathan Evaldi. Joe. You're just throwing that in there. No, I just, I need him. You need him. The second that Marossi.

These are Adam Duvall. It's Adam Duvall and Nathan Evaldi are the two. The second Marossi tweeted about starters, I was like, go get me Evaldi. Who struck out 10 and 6 last night, by the way. I can't remember who was playing. Maybe Rosenthal or someone pointed out that Dombrowski did this. He had the best rotation in baseball in 2018 and went out and got David Price. You know what I mean?

14. 14, excuse me. He did get Price again when he went to the Red Sox. Yes, he did get Price again when he went to the Red Sox. Yes, yes. But exactly. In Detroit. I mean, I was thinking of the Red Sox. But yes, that's what I mean? 14. 14, excuse me. He did get Price again when he went to the Red Sox. Yes, he did get Price again when he went to the Red Sox. But exactly, in Detroit. I mean, I was thinking of the Red Sox. But yes, that's what I meant when he got it. I think I told you that.

Someone just tweeted it too. You might have told me that too. But either way, I just saw a tweet about it. You're stealing my points. No, they did. Per usual. I forgot you said it. There you go.

Shows how impactful it was. All right. We'll be back later in the week. Until then. Or we could be back emergency. We're standing by it was. Yeah. All right. We'll be back later in the week. Until then, or we could be back emergency. We're standing by, Dave. We're standing by. Until then, he's for himself. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. Thanks for watching!