High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: Altherr to the Rescue/Harper and Machado, eh?

Episode Date: September 17, 2018

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back as Jack takes a victory lap on Aaron Altherr's Friday night and the rest of the Marlins series. The outrage over the pulling of Kingery is absurd, Pivetta's curveball and Eflin getting back to using his fastball. Also, the guys talk about Harper and Machado being linked to the Phils this past week.  See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know what's great about ambition? You can't see it. Some things look ambitious, but looks can be deceiving. For example, a runner could be training for a marathon, or they could be late for the bus. You never know. Ambition is on the inside. So that goal to beat your personal best?

Keep chasing it. Drive your ambition. Mitsubishi Motors. With Uber Reserve, you can book your Uber ride in advance. 90 days in advance. Perfect for all you forward thinkers and planning gurus. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. Uber Reserve. See Uber app for details. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes podcast. I am James Seltzer and with me right now with his arms in the air, the president of the Aaron Altair fan club doing his victory lap,

Mr. Jack Fritzy. It just feels so good to be right again with the Phillies. Aaron Altair has risen from the dead and he potentially has saved the Phillies season. And he has played his way right into the starting left field

position next year with Bryce Harper in right field and whoever in center field. Do they even need to sign Harper if they've got Altair? I mean, you know, right? All I know is that Nick Williams can pack his bags and go home. He's back. He's back, folks. I said it when Altair was going through his slump.

I said he's better than Nick Williams. He will always be better than Nick Williams. And guess what? I don't care if Nick Williams is hurt. I was right. I was right. He is such a good baseball player. Great defensive player. Great defensive player.

Great base runner. Now he's hitting doubles again. Listen, it's just sometimes you got to learn how to evaluate talent. And eventually, I think the High Hopes listeners will learn that. What's his average still? Approach the Mendoza line. Almost at 200. He's getting there, baby.

Quickly, though. It hasn't been a slow ascent and very fast take me through your emotions that friday nighter altair comes out and and says i'm back bitches so first off i'm working a friday night which is not fun at all but then i see altair's in the lineup i'm like all right i feel pretty good i love i love the concept that the fact that aaron altair's in the lineup can somehow make your friday night, so Altair in the lineup hits that first home run. Me and Joe look at each other, and we're like, yes! Because Joe's player to count on was Aaron Altair that night for leading off.

So good call by Joe. And so he does that, right? And then he basically steals a run for the Phillies in the Roman Quinn Fielder's Choice play at the middle where a very, some would say, Jason Wirth-esque play from Aaron Altair. Some would. Some would say.

Some would say. Not me. One might. Yeah, sure. Not I. And then he takes another ding-dong later in the game and the only reason he wasn't 5-for-5 was because he smoked the ball right at the right fielder.

He was inches away from being 5-for-5. You laughed at me the last podcast we did when I said he has been just consistently crushing. I laughed because it was 5 at bats. But he was crushing the ball. He was crushing the ball, and it came through, and then yesterday he went 2-for-2 off the bench, and maybe they started him, and maybe they win that game. We're not going to talk about Saturday, but I will talk about Saturday because he may have had the best

at bat of the season in the first inning. Really? That's good to know. He was down 0-2, worked it to 3-2, and then he walked and they scored three runs that inning. So, listen, he's a catalyst. They scored two that inning, right? Two that inning, whatever. More runs than one. They came back and scored three in the fifth. Okay. Real

serious question about Aaron Altair. How do you rationalize the year-on, year-off we've had with Aaron Altair? He looked really good in his first shot in the majors, came back injured a bit, but a really rough second season. Then, of course, last year had a really nice year. Sorry to believe. And then real struggles this year.

Again, what is it? Why is Aaron altair so inconsistent and what does he need to do to actually be the guy that you believe he is well um uh this year was weird because he just his timing is way off and you can see it was way off and he wasn't able to like he on fastballs inside last year i think he batted like 400 against them and this year he was just swinging and missing. And he wasn't squaring up pitches. And he wasn't hitting doubles into the opposite field gap.

That's when Aaron Altair is at his best. That's the hallmark of Aaron Altair. Yeah, when he's going gap to gap. That's what makes him hopefully a good player in this league. That's a good catch. But that's what would lead him to being a good player is the gap to gap power, not the majestic moonshots that he does hit. And I think his timing was just way off,

and I know he got a lot of starts with Nick Williams. They didn't really believe in Nick Williams. I know Altair got a lion's share of playing time, but once he started losing that playing time, it was hard for him to gain his step back. And he went down to the minors, and I think it was too late to send him to the minors. I would have liked to see him send him down there earlier to get his timing back. And he went down to the minors, and I thought, I think it was too late to send him to the minors. I would have liked to see him

send him down there earlier to get his timing back. So he's a timing-based hitter. And I guess now he's, he said he didn't really change anything. He just got more confident, which maybe he's

a confidence player as well. I don't know how to explain it. He's been off and on. Hopefully he can be more of the 2017 Altair going forward. I think he'll be fine. And I like his upside more than Nick Williams. I always have.

And I think next year I wouldn't hate if he's in left field and Harper's in right field and whoever between Quinter, Abdub, and center. All right. There's nothing I love more on this planet than your Aaron Altair. Wait till we get to Nick Pavetta. Yeah, wait till we get to Nick Pavetta. But you mentioned him.

Real quick, let's talk Harper because report comes out. We've seen a few reports now saying not just Harper but Machado. Phillies are going for it this offseason. Of course, Trout, we talked about that the last time you and I were on a pod. The potential that if he turns down a big contract from the Angels, Phillies could be in on that too. It would be such a somber day if he signs a contract extension. It would be the worst day.

It would be devastating. I would be so sad. Because I genuinely in my soul believe that Mike Trout'll be such a somber day if he signs a contract extension. It'd be like the worst day. It'll be devastating. I'll be so sad. Because I genuinely in my soul believe that Mike Trout will be a Philly. Last five years is all I thought about. Let's start with Harper and Machado. We all know how the Trout thing has to play out, especially because with the Trout thing, it takes two to tango.

They ultimately do need the Angels to A, not sign him long term, and then B, be involved in a trade. But Bryce Harper, Manny Machado are there, and those guys are going to test the market. Do you really think the Phillies are going to get both of these guys, or do you think they get at least one? Right now on September 17, 2018,

we're still three months away from free agency, all that stuff. Where is your feel on this situation right now? I can't believe we're going to blow all of our off-season content on September 17th. I have a feeling we're going to talk about this again. Just a thought. So right now, on September 17th, and this could obviously change, I don't think they're going to get both.

I think they're going to get Harper because I think Machado is lock city to the New York Yankees. You've been saying that for a while. Because that's what everyone, like his nephew goes on national TV, says he wants to see him play for the Yankees. He obviously talks to the Yankees. You've been saying that for a while. Because that's what everyone, like his nephew goes on national TV, says he wants to see him play for the Yankees. He obviously talks to the Yankees. There's been multiple reports that he tells his friends

that he wants to play for the Yankees. Do the Yankees want him? Or need him? Well, they don't need him. I mean, all right, let's, for argument's sake, let's say that he wants to go to the Yankees. Why would the Yankees give him $300, $400 million

when they have Miguel Anduar, they've got Gleybar Torres, they've got Didi Gregorius? I mean, they're so locked down. And they've got to pay Didi after next year? I mean, they are locked down. And, I mean, for what it's worth, Anduar and Torres, the two best rookies in baseball this year other than Acuna. Well, Soto.

Oh, and Soto. Ah! Hmm. Not long term. What Soto's doing at his age is better than those guys, but Anduar has been better than Soto. There's no question about it. Dude, Juan Soto's batting 300 with 400 OBP and like 20 plus homers.

Anduar's batting close to 300 with 20 plus homers. He's been up the entire season. True. Soto's been unbelievable. They both have been very, very good. And no time. But regardless, for age, of course, what Soto's doing is unprecedented at that age. Who'd you rather have, Acuna or Soto?

Acuna. But I like both a lot. It's terrifying. Acuna is so good. It is terrifying. He's so good, of course. What Soto's doing is unprecedented at that age. Who would you rather have, Acuna or Soto? Acuna. But I like both a lot. It's terrifying. Acuna's so good. It is terrifying. He's so good, that dude. I mean, I would love to have Ronald Acuna on my team. I think that no one's Mike Trout.

I think in three years, Ronald Acuna's the second best player in baseball. Yeah, it feels that way. Yeah. And Soto's like the next big power threat that's going to have like 40 homers a year. He's 19. It's terrifying. It's outrageous. Think about the the nls for a second i know we're we're going to talk about the thing but um i've i've i'm very nervous about um soto trey turner and rend zone all those young guys down there scherzer strasburg like rendon actually it's

not it's never been i know i know i couldn't believe you even uttered those words but like i think the nationals are going to bounce back next year i just think they're i think there's too much talent even if they lose harper sure i think there's too much talent there i'm worried about them and the mets the mets have looked competent for the last couple of weeks and their starting staff is getting like the exact wheelers turn into an absolute stud for them he's been really good with the grom with the grom and Syndergaard finally maybe healthy for it. I'm not worried about the Mets, but there's stuff to be concerned about. And then you have the Braves,

Freeman, Acuna, and Albies. Just unbelievable, the Braves. The amount of young talent they have. And they've got a better pharmacist than the Phillies still. And they've got, what, Riley? The third base prospect. And then all the pitching prospects in the world. Kyle Wright's up there now. Tucson and Allard. And I mean, they are just Newcomb's young, Fulton's young. They're're stacked the braves are stacked yeah it's it's very

it's very nerve-wracking that's why this offseason is so imperative that they get one of these guys i agree with you if they don't get these guys like i don't want to be doomsday guy but it's over it's not over but it's like it's not their path to being a legit contender in the nl is just hard i i think that it is the most important offseason in Philly's franchise history. Not even close. Yeah. I mean, no question. And to your point, I agree with you. I don't think they get both guys. Not because of the Yankees thing just as much that

it just seems impossible to me that they're actually going to go out and spend $800 million on two guys. Not that I'd be against it. I wouldn't care. I'm totally fine with it. We've talked about this a lot, but just to reiterate, these might be the two greatest free agents in the history of baseball in terms of years,

in terms of what they've already done at the Major League level, and in terms of the future they have in front of them. It doesn't get better than a 26 or 27-year-old Bryce Harper or Manny Machado coming on the market. It doesn't happen. Both are Hall of Famers, and will be Hall of Famers. And they're young. They came up so young, and we'll see it with Soto and Acuna. Those will be guys who will have free agency at 27 years old or whatever.

26 for Soto. It's a big deal for these guys to be this agent on the market. It's a huge deal. And even if they sign these guys to $40 million a year contracts, they're still like $60 some million under the luxury tax. Luxury tax. They've got nothing on the books. They've got nothing on the books.

They can easily do it's not they can easily do it, but it's feasible. And if you're Bryce Harper and Manny Machado and you- Oh, I love this idea

by the way. You put this out there on Twitter, right? Yeah, but- I love this idea. I love this idea. You bring them both in. You have a sit down

meeting with both of them and you say, listen, you guys are two of the best players in the game. Imagine what you could do together. We can pay you.

There's no problem there. We are willing to spend for whatever. And you say, in Harper-Montreal, look at each other, and they're like, why would we break up when we can just join forces here in Philadelphia? A little NBA action right there. Yeah, right. It's the NBA model.

It's the exact same thing. And I think that's the play. I don't think you'd go for just one of them meeting at different times. Bring them both in together and see what happens. I love that idea. I saw you tweeted that out. I love the concept of putting them in a room together. You don't see that in Major League Baseball.

It's not something that's done, but we've seen a lot in the NBA. The idea of these guys joining forces to go to a specific place and for the two biggest free agents ever in the same offseason to potentially be in the same room and make that pitch to those guys and you guys play together and let's build a freaking juggernaut.

And also what they'll do in that meeting at Del Fresco's, which I already called, so Del Fresco's set it up, is they're going to lay out their plan to get Mike Trout. Yep. And they're going to. I'm speechless right now. Just the thought of Harper, Machado and Trout Think about that

That's three of the ten best players in baseball I do not think it's It can't be unfeasible They have so much money And they're willing to pay the luxury tax If they have to Money is no object to the Phillies It's been that way for years

But that's what we're talking about right now. The 2018 offseason is such a juxtaposition for this team because if they strike out and they don't get either one, they're screwed and you're waiting for Trout, right? That's pretty much their plan. If you get both of them and then you lay out a plan for Trout, all of a sudden you're a freaking juggernaut. Literal juggernaut.

It's like there's such a swing here between non, like the Phillies would be competitive. It's like all or nothing kind of thing almost. Right. So the Phillies would be competitive if they do nothing because they do have the talent and they do have the depth, but the depth isn't the high impact. Like maybe Baum will be a high impact player.

I hope he is. We hope. We don't know that yet. We just don't know that. I think Adam Haley is going to be a really good player and it looks like he might even be in... There's talks of him being in the off-field next year, which is crazy.

Moniacs obviously have been showing some flashes, but still you don't have the high upside bats that the other teams have, and it's just hard for them to reach a ceiling of a World Series winner without the high impact bats. Yeah. Like I said, I think the Royals the only team I can think of in the last 20 years

that has won a World Series without at least one of those guys, and the Giants had Posey. I know that Posey might not seem that way, but he is at that position to be one of us. Well, he was an MVP. Exactly, and that's my point. So I can't think of another team other than the Kansas City Royals, and the Royals did it,

and the Royals, that's probably the flukiest World Series you'll ever see. Diamondbacks in 01, I guess Luis Gonzalez? A little bit, yeah. And that was Erie at 50-plus, Homer. So he was a really good hitter that year. And also, again, they had Johnson and Schilling. So it's a little bit of a kind of a different circumstance. But another good point.

But point being that you really increase your chances when you have those elite, high-end type talents. And how nervous are you that the Yankees sign both of them and trade Giancarlo Stanton? I'm not. Really? I think, let's just say, if George Steinbrenner were still the owner, I'd be a lot more nervous about it.

I think Hal is much more pragmatic. I just don't think that he goes about his business that way. But what if you can get Machado and you trade Didi, and then you have Harper and Wright, and you trade Stanton to the Dodgers? I think they could do it, and that would kind of free up some cap space with the tax and kind of make it work potentially. Look

It's a lot. I wouldn't be shocked if the Yankees did anything to the Yankees but I would be more surprised than not if that's the way it played out but I agree one of them and I'm with you too. I think Bryce Harper's a Philly I really do. I feel if I had to bet on one of those two guys. Was it because he hugged Bruce Hoskins last week? No, but I like that.

I like that. It's because he was out there hanging with the grounds crew. He's like, hey guys, I'm going to be here soon. And then Gabe. Oh, dude. So Gabe and him are definitely lifting in the mornings together, right? And they're going to go on jogs around Philadelphia. It's going to be great. Yeah. And I firmly want to plant my flag on one of these players. Yes. And it's long been

Machado. It has. i'm a harper guy thank you welcome aboard sir i want bryce harper i wanted more than manny machado you argued about this i know i know he is he is just so exciting and he's he's this this second half has really helped fuel this awesome he's been he's been really really good um and now his ops is like back above machado's even after he was hitting like 190, which is like a ridiculous streak he's been on. So I want Harper here. I think it'd be really exciting for the fan base.

What do you think about Patrick Corbin? I like Patrick Corbin a lot. I like the adjustments he made into this year. He looks like a bit of a different pitcher than he was before. The talent was always there. We talked about it. Third pitch. The talent was always there.

It was always a Patrick Corbin guy. He just couldn't put it together. My worry is the cost because... Four years, 82? Yeah, because he's had injury issues and stuff like that. So I worry a little bit about that. But look, I think, I mean, he's probably going to be the number one pitcher on the market

because Kershaw will probably just get re-upped. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about this. I was thinking about the next year's Phillies rotation. And while some of the guys took a positive step forward, Eflin, Vel. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about this. I was thinking about the next year's Phillies rotation and while some of the guys took a positive step forward, Eflin, Velasquez, Pavetta, it's hard to trust them in a 162-game season.

Especially Eflin at this point. Eflin, and that's an interesting thing on Eflin real quick, is that in... Ooh, yeah, we talked about this on the last show. On his fastball usage? Yeah, and I'm surprised

they haven't upped it more. Well, he did in his last start. And he was good. He was good in his last start. And he was good. He was good in his last start. And so his fastball usage, his forcing fastball usage in his 5-0 June was 51%. And it was like, it's great because it gets him ahead. And his off-speed is just not that great to where it's wipeout stuff. He has an adequate slider and an okay changeup.

But what was making him so good was his fastball. And everything playing off his fastball looked much better. And I don't understand really what the okay changeup. But what was making him so good was his fastball. And everything playing off his fastball looked much better. And I don't understand really what the philosophy change was, but he just stopped throwing it. Like, this month and last month, he was in the low 40s. And subsequently, he was getting rocked.

And finally, this pass started against the Marlins. He went back to attacking with his fastball. And it made everything else look good. So hopefully, they write that down and say, Zach, you're throwing your fastball, buddy. Stop messing around. But yeah, so next year's rotation, if Arrieta can be like your 4-5, 4-5, hopefully. He's just not a number two. They need another arm.

They need one more. And I'm looking in the minors, and I think Sixto and Medina are probably two years away from being in this rotation. Best case scenario, midseason next year i would say best case i think six could be up here in september next year sure hopeful playoff run and maybe in the rotation after that as a bullpen guy or something like that right so i don't hate the idea of throwing big money at patrick corvin and if if you're if you're here to compete next year if you're trying to make a legit run and which i believe they are it'll depend on the big moves but which i think they are and if they if they go to machado and harper get one of them then all of a sudden you're trying to throw yourself into a world

series contending window and i don't see the arms in the minor leagues before and until you get to six on medina that could be as good as patrick corbin yeah and also something the phillies don't have someone who throws from the lefty that side huh, wouldn't that be fun to watch a lefty pitch here? I mean, you know, a lefty starter? Adam Morgan's right there, man. Yeah, starter. Adam Morgan, Jesus Christ. I don't want to go too inside

baseball, but he was really good last year. I don't know what happened. Adam Morgan, again, one of those guys who went from a guy we all hated because he was a terrible starter, but then they put him in the pen he was legit he was a weapon as a left-handed reliever and lost it all this year and it's the eye test like he looks hittable yeah bitches no I know it's weird he was because they upped his slider usage last year and this year's slider he hasn't been able to find the release point on it just like what happened to me in college

basically the same thing. Same exact thing. You're the right-handed Adam Morgan. Yeah, some say. Some do. All right, so we'll obviously dive way more into the Harper, Machado, all that stuff. I think many times now until December. Yeah, we're looking forward to January. That's all we talk about.

It's going to be good. It's going to be good. But a few more things with this team, and then we'll get back to kind of looking ahead. But some interesting stuff over the weekend. We'll get to Carlos Santana in a minute because I know you had some thoughts on Santana. But I want to talk about the Saturday game. The whole kingery of it all gets pulled in the second inning

for a pinch hitter. Everyone loses their freaking minds. The pitcher also, Velasquez, gets pinch hit for. Granted, he gave up four runs in two innings, so I think people were a little less angry about that one, but you start Kingery, you pull him out. They end up winning the game 5-4. A lot of interesting nuggets with that game. I think it was the

first game in the history of baseball, I believe, where no pitcher pitched more than two innings in the entire game, which is a really fascinating statistic. Or an ML game where neither starter hit. Neither starter hit. That was the other nugget, I think both from Jason Sark, potentially. Regardless um it was a weird game they won the game and people gay capler won the pretty mad about i that's my i think capler won them that game with the managing

but people are really criticizing for it well that's because i just i just i i don't understand what is so hard to to like just think for two seconds about what the manager's doing rather than being like oh stupid analytics what are they doing here like it's just it's driving me insane critically think for five seconds right we are like for this entire season scott kingery's been a complete bust and everyone's been saying get him out of the lineup get someone else in here just so we can see anyone else play shortstop, right? And they start a lefty on the mound, and it's fine to play Kingery. I think Kingery's looked better in recent weeks.

I want to see him play more. I think it's important. You've actually been hyping Kingery up a lot. And I want to see him play. I really do. But Gabe Kapler thinks they're still in this thing, and they're only five games out of the wild card. Right, and to be fair, he has to manage that way. You can're only five games out of the wild card. And to be fair,

he has to manage that way. You can't rip him for managing to win. Right. So a lefty starts, it's fine playing Kingery because if you want to pull him against righties, that's different. So a lefty starts, they get to the second inning, and a righty comes in, and you have second and third no outs, or whatever it was.

There's no outs. You have to play to win there. and when you have a guy like a drupal cabrera who is a better hitter who can come off the bench and play shortstop and can hit like it was an absolute no-brainer decision and i i can't but like dude he's gonna ruin scott kingery's confidence scott kingery if he's if he's that emotionally weak shouldn't be in the major leagues because he at some point you have to be realistic and say this makes a lot of sense on paper like i i don't understand the the outcry for for pulling him there and everyone's like well why didn't you just start it true because there was a freaking lefty on the map like they were trying to optimize the lineup by by doing that and it's just it's just continued with this stupid this it's just like, I want Gabe Kapler to succeed

just because this city can stop dragging its knuckles across the freaking ground. Like it's caveman thoughts. And here's the thing, if that happens in August, July, June, whatever, you can somewhat have a gripe because you can say you're losing a guy

in the second inning, you need roster depth, it could be a tie game, you could go to extra innings. They have 40 million rosters right now. I know. There's no reason to rip that move. There's none.

I get it why people, it's not like you pinch hit for Reese freaking Hoskins, all right? I mean, come on. And again, they won the baseball game. That should be the biggest takeaway. And I think it was actually a really impressive win down early, fought back,

and they had seven relievers combined to throw seven shutout innings. I mean, that's called managing is what that's called. It's called managing, and Kavler did a really nice job of it there. Speaking of managing, I've seen a little bit of Carlos Santana at third base. A lot of Carlos Santana at third base. Yeah, you have an interesting theory on this or a hope for this. Well, I don't want to give away Carlos Santana.

I think Carlos Santana is the second best offensive player in the Phillies. And he's going to end up the season with the most RBIs in his career, over 100 walks, all that good stuff. He's had a pretty good Carlos Santana season. Obviously, a lot of his numbers in the last month have jumped his average. He's up in the 230s now after being in the 218

range. And it's been a hot streak when the games haven't really mattered, which is very Bobby Abreu of him for a lot of Phillies fans in this in this area but I think Carlos Santana is a valuable um offensive player and I think he's a better first he's obviously a way better first base than the Reese Hoskins is it's not close and the my only argument for ever getting the DH in the NL is so that Reese Hoskins can get out of the field and it is a good argument because folks there is nowhere you could put Reese Hoskins can get out of the field. And it is a good argument because folks, there is nowhere you could put Reese Hoskins in the field where he will be good.

And I think what the Phillies did this year was they wanted to see how Reese could do for as much as they, they put on this facade that they were going for it. It was still a developmental year to see what they have in a lot of these players. And I think what they tried. I think Klintak kind of said as much whenever asked about the moves, he was very clear that they did not expect this team to be where it was this year.

And, you know, they're doing the best they can in the situation that has kind of changed their thinking. Right. So if you weren't projected to be that good, why not see if Reese Hoskins is going to play in left field? And I think what they've learned is that he can't. And I know it's probably the least important defensive position, but still. Definitely the least important, but yes. It's still a defensive position, and I think it's made Adubo Herrera a worse defensive center fielder

because he has Reese Hoskins next to him, and he has to think about that much more space he has to cover because Reese can't get to anything, he's a bad arm. So they've been playing Carlos Santana at third base a lot, and there was a report from Jim Salisbury in the middle of last week saying that they did explore the option of trading Carlos Santana at the deadline to free up first base

to bring Hoskins back. And I think they want to do that. But I don't hate the idea of a good amount of Carlos Santana at third base because listen, the lineup becomes way better. He's been okay at it. He's been serviceable. He's been solid out there.

Listen, he's not going to be a stud third baseman, but if you can take the offensive upside of having both Hoskins and Santana, but Hoskins in a better position defensively, and you can have Santana at third base where he's at least somewhat adequate, I think the upside offensively is better than getting rid of Santana, having Franco back at third base, and Hoskins at first base. I just like the upside offensively. And also maybe you can put Santana at first

and put Hoskins on left field for maybe once or twice a week and still have Santana at third base. It's interesting that they've been doing that. I think they're trying to find a way to keep Carlos Santana because I don't think they want to move a valuable offensive piece like him. I agree with you, and I don't think they should move him. Look, let's put it this way. I'd rather have Santana back at first base and Hoskins in left field again than have Santana not on this team for a stupid reason,

like they just want to move Hoskins back to first base. But I agree with you. I think the third basing is interesting. I mean, Carlos Santana started in left field for a World Series, in the World Series, in Game 1 of the World Series. He sure did. And he batted leadoff. So, Gabe's, again, just reinventing the game of baseball.

Doing stuff no one's ever done before, Jack. But it begs the question, there's this island that I haven't been on that you've been on very vocally. But you're out for next year. This is it? It's the end? Are you off the island? What's going on here?

Mike Calfranco. He might be hurt now, but you're already out for next year. This is it. It's the end. Are you off the island? What's going on here? Mike Calfranco? He might be hurt now, but you're already out for next year. We're talking about next year. What's going on, Fritzy? What's going on? I never really trusted Mike Calfranco. Yes! Give it to me! Pump it into my veins!

I think he's a fine player. He's mostly a fine player. I have no problem moving on for Minnesota season because I don't think he's a fine player. I think he's mostly a fine player. I have no problem moving on from him this offseason because I don't think he's consistently going to be able to figure it out offensively for an entire 162. Which is what we've seen, and that's the consistency issue that he's always had. He has always had that issue. So, yeah, I'm interested because if they – this offseason is very –

it's one of the biggest offseasons. Regardless of Harper, Machado, all those sweepstakes, if they this offseason is very it's one of the biggest offices regardless of um harper machado all those sweepstakes they have to make the decisions on on cesar they'd make decisions on maybe kingery crawford yep they're gonna make decisions on michael franco there's a lot of decisions made yep can you trust roman oh doable is a great i mean that's it what do you do there i don't know because the contract is great you're not just giving him away you're not getting rid of him you're not cutting him But you're also selling him low. Exactly. That's my issue. It's like, you could

trade him, but you're selling him low. And we all know, if you really want to trade him, have him back out there, have a hot streak, and then trade him after that, or whatever. But I think Odubel may be the most interesting decision that they have in terms of the current roster. Yeah, I don't know what they're going to do. And they gotta...

This offseason could shape everything because if they trade those guys and they turn out to be good and the guys who keep turn out to be bad, then it's like your talent evaluation is way off. As if we haven't heard enough Matt Klintec hate on us. Right. I mean, that's a fireball offense. That would be bad, man. I mean, that'd be bad. It'd be

really bad. Again, it's a huge offseason. And it's not just because of the big signings. It's everything. Deciding what to do with the rotation the future of this franchise will be decided this offseason and we can only hope that it's for the best no and i i've thought about this a lot i've literally been i've been texting you this awake at night about i've been texting you this since like 2017 if and like i try not to think about it because when i start thinking about it i go into a dark place deep hole man yeah i'll get texts from Jack at weird hours, just these despondent texts like, Phillies don't sign Harper.

It's over. It's just done. It's over. I know. I know. To clarify, you think they have to get one of these guys? Because if they don't, then they don't have a realistic path to winning a championship. I just don't think that.

The staff could be – they have a bunch of very good major league players. I think Hoskins is above average. I think he's going to be. I think he's going to be. And Nola is above average, obviously. But you can't just have one of those guys. I agree with you. You have to have at least three or four.

I agree. And I don't know who the others will be. Yeah, I agree. And especially when you look at an Atlanta team in this division, and like you said, Washington already has three of them if you think Soto's going to be one.

You know, Atlanta has the potential. They already have at least two maybe if you consider Albies one I don't think he's there yet but I mean the potential is so high for all those guys Freddie Freeman I mean he's a he's a star and they have guys like that so I think it's going to be especially crucial you mentioned Klintak I meant to ask you about this uh did you get a chance to see some of the quotes from Klintak speaking to the media, talking about this past season and kind of where he was at with thinking differently and talked a little bit about some of the moves and all that type of stuff. I thought there was some interesting stuff in there as Klintak kind of just goes at the media and says, basically, like, we are going to

do things differently. We want to do things differently. We don't want to do things the way people have done things for the last 120 years. Sometimes it's going to work. Sometimes it's not going to work. But we're going to keep trying those things. And I don't understand how people can get so upset about these things. I don't understand how people still get mad when they're just trying to see what works. And if it doesn't work, they're not going to do it. And if it works, hey, that's awesome.

We got an advantage on other people. You're trying to find market inefficiencies, Jack. Did no one read Moneyball? Right. Or Astro Ball? Or Astro Ball. Yeah, I mean, the games, what teams are doing right now are they're trying to find the next innovation.

Yep. The next market inefficiency. Yeah, and the Phillies are hopefully, and the fact that they're thinking that way is a very good sign. They're not trying to fit in with what everyone else is doing. They tried Hoskins in left field this year. That's number one. That's the first thing that we're going to see. We have

seen in them trying to be different, and I don't think it worked out. And I think they know that it didn't work out, and that's why we've seen more and more of Carlos Santana at third base and Hoskins at first base. And I hope we see more of that just to see if it's good. But listen, the fact that they're thinking that way,

I think is a, a healthy thing. Another interesting thing he addressed that we didn't talk about the firing of the hitting coaches, Joe Jordan, of course leaves. This is an interesting organizational philosophy type of thing here. Getting rid of those hitting coaches,

getting in guys who are going to do what they do. How do you come down on this? Cause I know we've had a lot of people complain about the approach offensively where you where you at on this right now uh so it's weird so maylee did a a guy sit down with todd's lucky and he's talking about selectively aggressive hitting and how they will be aggressive if they get their pitch early and counts which in theory sounds good but doesn't really make sense because like if a pitcher knows that he's looking for one pitch early to count like why would you throw that pitch so i was like i mean good it's good to be aggressive on pitches that you can try to slug

but when you when the pitcher knows that and they know your tendencies they're not going to throw that pitch so you're going to end up being down to like with Kingery and, and all that stuff. So it was, it was a bit weird. The, the mainly quotes, I didn't,

I didn't like them a lot. But so the firing or the hitting coaches and Joe Jordan, I don't love the idea of, of getting rid of old school scouts. And I think, I think a lot of the analytics and, and looking for players in in that kind of way has been good for the game but i've read multiple stories in the last couple

weeks like even de grom um when they were scouting him yeah it's a great story like you don't find de grom without traditional scouting so i think i think there is a place for traditional scouting and getting rid of all the old school like joe jordan's an old school baseball guy big time that's what he is and i don't love the idea of of moving on from those guys the hitting coaches i think is a little different because i'm kind of looking at the dodgers model and they are all about launch angle and driving and and finding guys like i'm just in my mind i'm thinking of max muncy jock peterson is money grand all um all the cody bellinger that are just looking to just launch on balls.

And I think that's what's going to be implemented in the lower levels. And I don't think they want the old hitting coach. That's fine. I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to build a Dodger-like team here in Philadelphia, a team that's just out there looking to slug. And really, the Dodgers are just what the Phillies are, just souped up. Just more talented. More talented than the Phillies.

That's what they are. And getting rid of the hitting coaches and having these guys just teach launching on balls was what I think those moves were about. Yeah, and look, whether or not you agree with the approach offensively, and look, as Jack just mentioned, there are a lot of very successful teams in baseball who approach hitting this way. Well, it's the as Jack just mentioned, there are a lot of very successful teams in baseball who approach hitting this way. So it's the Dodgers that approach it. And I think I'm just trying to think just to balance it out.

Teams that are not really like this are the Red Sox and Astros are more. They don't have great strikeout numbers. They're looking to be aggressive early in counts to drive the ball, whereas the Dodgers and Phillies are more weighted out. And regardless. And look, we've seen it have success at times this year. You know, it's struggled, but at the same time, it's also, I think in some ways, raised some talent that's maybe not as good and got a little more production at times than you would expect.

But regardless, just from a philosophical perspective, I love the idea that they are instituting a top-down type of thing where they're saying, we are going to teach hitting the same way to everybody. We're not going to have this guy who loves to teach this and this guy loves to teach that and this guy loves to teach that. No. We're all going to teach the same thing.

We as an organization are all moving in unison in the same direction. We have to. I love that, though. I mean, that's something that wasn't happening before. I do agree with you, though, about the old school scout thing. I think there is absolutely a place in baseball for them.

I think that to think that you can just get by on numbers, numbers are incredibly important. We're both analytics guys, all that. I think it is foolhardy to think that you can just shirk scouting and old school scouting and looking at the player and what do they do and whatever, and maybe because his numbers are this, but look what he's doing with his hands.

We can fix it, whatever. I think it is a mistake to completely just ignore that. Yeah, and so do I. And when you talk about the whole organizational top-down thing, I don't understand why it took him so long. Like, Klintak's been here for a couple years. That's why I was – It's something you would think would happen like that immediately.

Like, we're instituting what we do. So the first thing Theo Epstein did when he took over the Cubs that fraud Theo Epstein just kidding. Just kidding. Was he implemented the Cubs way and he wrote a whole handbook

the Cubs way distributed to all the minor league levels and maybe Klintek did the same thing. Maybe he did this whole manifesto about how the Phillies are going to play baseball

and maybe the hitting coaches that were released didn't believe in that philosophy and it took them a couple seasons to weed out who they believed in and who they didn't believe in. I think that may be what is happening here. Because they didn't want to come in and just completely clean house and have players learning from new coaches all of a sudden.

Even though they had. So maybe that's it. And I think the best comp I have for the Phillies offense. And I usually don't like trying to compare baseball to other sports or sports to other sports. But it reminds me a lot of the process Sixers in the sense that you could see the offensive system worked. It was just they didn't have the talent

to put the ball in the hoop. They were shooting more threes. Going from last year to this year was like a basketball team who only shot mid-range jumpers going to three-pointers. And that's an analytical revolution. And that's what they basically did this year.

The Sixers, they finally found players that could shoot threes. It's a great point. And it spaced the floor. I love this comp. And with the Phillies, hopefully a lot of this season was about seeing who can play into their slug mindset. And I think a guy like Cesar Hernandez, I don't think he can play into it. Just because he has raised his fly ball rate this year,

but it's conversed with a lower batting average, and it didn't work for him. And his fly balls don't travel far enough. Right. It sort of comes down to that. He's a line-to-line hitter. That's just what he is. And I think they're going to move on from him this offseason

because of that. Aduble, I don't think he plays into it. I don't think at all he plays into it. He's a natural bat-to-ball hitter. He's not a long-trangle guy,ter. He's not a launch angle guy, and I wonder if his struggles had to do with trying to fit this launch angle process, which he's just not.

That's not the kind of hitter he is. And I think a lot of the season was about the Phillies evaluating who they can trust in their offensive system. And I think Santana and Hoskins both have great line drive rates in that they they stay it always feels like their balls are always in the air and they're always slugged pretty hard even though you know Santana's average hasn't been great this year there was never one

point where I was like he's really struggling at the plate he's still driving the ball it was just that it would be right at people because of the shifts and stuff so I think you're going to see more of guys like Hoskins and Santana that are in the business of line drives. Yeah, and look, just again, as an organizational philosophy, I like the idea of training guys from the jump, of how you want them to hit when they get to the major leagues. The Indians, you know, who had a lot of success

by being a very smart, analytically inclined organization, the most analytically inclined for a very long time, kind of set the standard originally. A lot of the general manager in baseball were former Indians guys. But they've started drafting based on guys who have the ability to hit to all fields. Because they said, oh, well, look at the shift. Let's change our approach to try and combat that.

I mean, I just think that having an organizational philosophy and whether some fans agree with it or not, implementing something at the lower levels and carrying it all the way through is a good plan. And what the Rays have done this year is they have... By the way, shout out to the Rays. I mean, Kevin Cash should be manager of the year. He should win it

from both leagues. I mean, give him all the awards. It is unbelievable what that club has done. Right, and I guess their offensive philosophy this year, or offensive philosophy, is like formatting their approach to what the players' strengths are. Crazy idea. What a wild thought.

It's interesting. I don't know. I saw this whole piece on them just trying to fit. It's not like launch angle. It's just making what the player does well better. Yep. Which I'm interested in that.

I love that idea. And again. I just don't think the Phillies are going that route. And again, to all those people out there hating on analytics, all these teams we're talking about are huge analytic teams. They rely on analytics. That is baseball now. Sorry.

I know. I don't like it. It's just where the sport is. I still don't like the opener. I don't care what anyone says. It's not fun. Incredibly effective, but I agree. Sorry. I know. I don't like it. It's just where the sport is. I still don't like the opener. I don't care what anyone says. It's not fun. Incredibly effective, but I agree. It's not fun.

As a fan, it's not fun, but it works. It works. So I think hopefully next year, and obviously this year is not completely done, but they have the offensive system in place, and I think they're going to start finding players that fit that offensive system. We are glad that they have a whole top-down approach from an organizational standpoint. Took them a little while to figure it out,

but it's a good place where this team's at, and this is the most important offseason in team history. By far. Before we get to the offseason, really quickly, what are you looking for over the last 14 games? Is there anything again, we just want to see the young kids play and maybe see some development or whatever, but is there anything specifically you're looking for?

Or is it just kind of right out the string? Pavetta, whenever he starts. Yeah, let's talk about Pavetta for one second. Because I think I was the only person that was watching the Phillies yesterday. Because I had to. Oh, yeah. I think you were. Which is miserable.

Yeah. Tough timing for the Phillies there. Yeah. Whatever. But Pavetta had his best curveball in about two months. And what made me so excited and bullish on Pavetta was the fastball coupled with that curveball because that curveball is wicked.

But he hasn't really had it for the last two months. He's been pitching without it. And that's why his ERA is conversely blown up. He struck out eight in like five innings yesterday. It was back to being a good, hard curveball from Pavetta. I want to see more of that as the season goes on. He's hitting like 97 too, so that was exciting. But still, needs that third pitch, obviously.

I'm interested. I want to see more Santana at third, Hoskins at first. I want to see that outfield. I want to see a Kingery Crawford middle. Give me a game. Just give me a game, see what it looks like. See what it looks like, man. I just want to see what Kingery is. middle just for give me a game just give me a game see what it looks like see what it looks like I just want to see what Kingery hasn't played second base I was about to say it's unbelievable how little second base that guy's played it's crazy I think

he's played like three innings of second base yeah I think he got one start I think it was one start all season long one start yeah it's ridiculous and maybe they'll keep playing Cesar just to get his value to wherever it can possibly be to trade in the soft season. Quinn, I want to see if he can stay healthy. Listen, he's really susceptible to a high fastball, and I want to see if he can fix that. But even with a major hole in a swing, he's still been batting like 325. He's been good, man.

I'm interested to see what he can do. Obviously, it's hard to trust him because he can never stay healthy. It's all about the health. If he stays healthy, he's a dynamic guy to have on your team. He's fun. He's a fun player to have.

Crawford made some swing adjustments. His hands are lower now. he's not wrapping the bat as much look good um still defense is still weird he made another error yesterday that kind of caught he made an error that cost him out of a run so he forever he's dead to me but um if you can get past that uh that'd be great so he's his throwing errors have just been weird this year hopefully he can fix that out fix that up a little bit, and his hands are dropped, and maybe there's some offensive outside there. So I'm looking for that stuff. And maybe Wilson Ramos won't approve of Dela Saucy.

I like that. Wilson Ramos, I was thinking this the other day, he doesn't play enough to where you're going to bury Jorge Alfaro because he can't because of his hamstrings. Yeah, he can't play enough. He can't play a bunch. He's kind of a perfect guy to have as a compliment to Alfaro. I don't think it would stun Alfaro's growth, and I would like to see him back here.

I feel like I've seen Alfaro play just as much as all season long. This is the trade. It's like he hasn't lost any playing time. Also, he is infuriating. He drives you crazy. I think he's got a hole in his back. Yeah, he does. It's unbelievable.

Some of the pitches he missed, you're like, how'd you miss that? I know. What happened there? I know. does. It's unbelievable. Some of the pitches he missed, you're like, how'd you miss that? I know. What happened there? I know. His offseason's important. His offseason's important especially also from the, we've seen a lot of growth defensively. He needs to use his brain a little bit more. He makes stupid decisions a lot. And he's gotta

stop dropping to one leg on balls in there. Yes, he's gotta, like what is he doing there? I know. It's laziness. It's laziness from the sense you gotta get to both knees and get around the ball and keep it in front of you. All right, Fritzy. We'll be back later this week. Phillies-Mets and then the final 11-game gauntlet.

It looks so much fun against the Braves and the Rockies. It's supposed to be so much better. Who knows? Maybe they'll sweep the Braves. They won't. Jackie, final thoughts. Listen, man, we haven't gotten a review since August 6th. What?

And I still check every day oh it's been over jack guys every day looking for a new review please be that person who makes tracks that reviews the high hopes pocket okay my final thought don mattingly came out after the game on saturday and had a righteous beef i agree with don mattingly it is ridiculous that you could just have 40 players active for every game. You should have to change your 25. They have to change that rule. They have to change that rule. You can have 40 men on a roster, but you can only use 25. Exactly.

And you have to designate it before the game. It is just it is right. It is not the game that they play for the first five months of the season. I thought Don Mattingly was dead on with that. But he was also a hypocrite because he said this isn't baseball, but he started it. So It's a good point, Jack. Pipe down So, so, so, so good point, Jack.

Pipe down, Donnie. Good point, Donnie. Baseball pipe down. All right. I love it. We'll be back later in the week. Hopefully, hopefully, if we can win another series, Jack, finally got a series win. So that is, they did it. Something exciting. For Fritz, I'm Seltzer. We'll talk to you guys later. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen. We have a

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