High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: Biggest Series in 6 Years

Episode Date: June 28, 2018

Jack Fritz and James Seltzer are here to give their takeaways from the Yanks series and preview the Nats series. What do they make of Zach Eflin, the stopper, Jake Arrieta's June Swoon and Hector Neris possibly being back? They also preview the biggest series in 6 years and talk about Jayson Werth's retirement.  See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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some say. As this Phillies team, man, James Seltzer, they lose two or three to the Yanks. They salvaged last night against the Yankees B squad. Mostly,

it was a wow, that team is much better than our team. But still, there was 40-plus thousand in the house for every single game. The juice was back. It felt like Phillies fans by game three were like, all right, we're not going to just let the Yankees take over our ballpark. We're going to fight back a little bit. James, an exciting first couple days of baseball.

I know it wasn't great from the win-loss column, but how did it feel seeing CBP full again? Phillies are back, Jack. Wow. Phillies are back. And also, any time you got Cy Eflin on the hill, you got a chance to go out and win the game. Let's talk about Zach Eflin because I think he's good.

And I just think that if you were going to – he's the guy where I think he's consistently hard to square up for however many innings he's out there, especially when he's spotting his fastball to both sides of the plate. And he's legitimately touching 96 now, which I never thought would be possible from Zach Eflin. When he is spotting both sides of the plate with his fastball. His slider was really sharp last night. Most of the pitching staff has adopted the spiked curveball or spiked slider, probably from Jake Arrieta that he's probably taught them that. It creates much more spin.

And it seems like Eflin may be starting to spike his pitches. That's why his sliders seem to have way more run to it. And his changeup last night was even really good. He's getting out with that. He's a legitimate three-pitch pitcher. He is spotting both sides of the plate with his fastball. And I think for however long he's out there, he's hard to square up. Yeah, Jack, I think you hit on it.

That spike slide looks more like a curve than a slider. But whatever it is, it's becoming a real out pitch for him. I mean, it's a swing and miss pitch, man. And I think the great thing that we've seen with Evan Overgin, first and foremost, a lot of people have talked about it, but he really has been the stopper this month. Every time this team has needed a guy to go out and give them a big outing, what we thought and hoped and expected we might get from Jake Arrieta

in these types of spots, we've been getting it from Zach Eflin. And not only have the numbers been ridiculous, you know, the well below sub two we are in the month of June, the strikeout to walk has been there. Like you said, Jack, he passes the eye test. You know, I always watch Zach Eflin pitch, and whether he's running good or bad, I never felt like he was a good pitcher.

Like a legitimate major league, I can count on this guy every fifth day. And for the first time ever this last month, and really majority of this season with Eflin, he's looked different. And part of it's the velocity. Part of it is the movement. Like you said, the spin on that pitch. He just looks different. He looks like a better pitcher. And, again, you know, the spin on that pitch, he just, he looks different. He looks like a better pitcher. And again, you know,

the whole like caveat consistency and he just needs to work for a longer period of time. But man, I'm with you. I'm incredibly bullish about Zach Eflin. He's not going anywhere. He's a fixture of this rotation right now. Yeah. He won five games in June. Zach Eflin won five. He was a guy. This is the toughest month of baseball. They would play all season long, and Zach Eflin was their MVP. That's crazy. He's been the one that has cleaned up Arrieta's

messes during this whole entire run. Arrieta's been terrible in June, and Zach Eflin's pitched behind him in the rotation and saved his ass. Yes, he has been the stopper. Arrieta, every time, I feel like every time Arrieta has taken the hill in June, since that first game in San Francisco and he spouted off,

every single time before he started a game I've said, this is why they brought Arietta here. This team needs a win. It's a big series, whatever. And every time he's come up small, and then the next night out, Eflin goes out and dominates. It's a great point, Zach. He's been what we expected Arrieta to be this month.

Listen, the baseball gods have not been kind to Jake Arrieta. He pissed off the baseball gods. You don't throw your teammates under the bus, especially a rookie. Especially a rookie, yeah. That's baseball 101. And the baseball gods have tortured him this month with all the errors. He has the most unearned runs in baseball. And it's just you don't piss off the baseball gods like that, Jake.

You should have known that since you're 32 years old. Before we move on from Eflin, he has really, really changed his mentality on the mound. He's now like a bulldog. He's aggressive in the zone. Yeah, buddy. Got some Nick Pavetta in him, Jack. Right. Well, he's attacking with his fastball.

And that's where I get so frustrated with a guy like Vince Velasquez, where he has all the – he's the best fastball on the staff, but he tries to nibble with it rather than just going after guys and attacking guys on a night-in, night-out basis. Vince Velasquez can't do that. What has taken Zach Eflin to the next level is the fact that he's aggressive in the zone with that fastball to both sides of the plate. He doesn't care about going inside, doesn't care about pitching the outside corner, doesn't care about going up. He's been pitching up in the zone more and more to try

to combat the launch angle movement. Zach Eflin, I trust Zach Eflin, which is something I never thought I would say. It's crazy, man. I feel the exact same way. And I was, you know, all up until this past month, I was the whole time saying, hey, chill out. Eflin started out last year well. He fell off a cliff. I'm not expecting anything out of Zach Eflin. And, man, he's proven me wrong time and time again. And I think the level of competition that he's done it against this past month really makes it hard to ignore. It's hard to say.

You can't say he's just facing bad teams or bad lineups or whatever. He looks like a different pitcher. And it's not one of those things where it's, oh, baseball's weird and you can have a good month or whatever. Again, going back to the eye testing, if you watch this guy pitch every night, every time out, he looks like a different pitcher than he was last year, period. Yeah, for sure.

All right, let's talk about Arrieta. We touched on him in a second there. Listen, the fastball velocity is fine. Everything else is terrible. He's not locating. He doesn't have any confidence in his fastball. It feels like every time he throws a fastball in the zone, it's getting crushed.

He's not letting up bleeders out there. Jake Arrieta is getting crushed on his fastball. It just doesn't make any sense because it's 94, 93, whatever. But it's moving like a foot. But it must be moving right into these guys' barrels because they are just barreling up Jake Arrieta every single time he goes out there this month. Yeah, when Arrieta's on that

fastball, that looks like in-out movement that it has where it cuts in against righties, out against lefties, or the other way around, excuse me. But we haven't seen that at all. It's like you said, it's just that there'll be a little late movement on it, but it's not

nearly enough to get it out of the zone or to put it over the plate when needed. You're right. He's had no confidence in it all, and it has been very hard hit. That's the thing where when Arias spouted off after the San Francisco game, and he's blaming Schiff, and he's saying, I can't believe

McCutcheon got a hold of that one nice job of him and all that stuff. Look, bro, you're getting the ball knocked off you. This is not light hit anymore. This is not, yes, the defense has not backed him up. And like you said, I think there's a little karma there. There's a little, I think there's a lot going on there. But regardless, he's getting hit.

And he's getting it hard. And, again, I understand. Look, I don't think he's not trying hard. I don't think he's not going out there and trying to do his best, but at the same time, it's hard not to get frustrated with him when he does spout like that, and like you said, he calls out a rookie, he calls out management, he calls out the front office, he calls out everybody top to bottom and says,

I need accountability, and he's been the worst pick from the staff since then. So, look, I know that he's trying, but it rubs me the wrong way, Jack, and I don't really know how to kind of deal with that because I understand that it's not like he's going out there and trying to suck. But at the same time, you know, he needs to be better. Yeah, and accountability thing's funny because he's talking about how everyone's need accountability and all this stuff. And then he goes to Jerry Krasnick and he says,

yeah, I can still strike out guys if I want to. Like, what are you talking about, Jake? We haven't seen that, buddy. No, no. How about when it's second and third one out and your team makes an error behind you, you strike a guy out and help out your team rather than just

letting it compound and compound. I just don't think he's a very confident pitcher right now. And my best example of that was the at-bat against Luis Severino, who has maybe batted four times in his entire big league career. And he throws two curveballs, one that gets past the catcher, allows a runner to get to third base. What are you throwing a guy who never hits a curveball for?

It doesn't make any sense. It's malpractice from a pitching standpoint. Oh, yeah. I mean, he fired three fastballs down the middle of the plate and struck out Severin. Severin wasn't even looking to take the bat off his shoulder at that moment. It's embarrassing. Look, I think you're right.

I think the confidence thing is a great point, and we talk a lot about lack of confidence with younger pitchers, but it happens to everybody. It's a human thing, and I do agree. Especially, look, I think that whenever you are brought in somewhere as a high-priced guy, that adds another extra level of pressure to what you're doing. And then when you're not performing, I think that could spiral out of control.

Here's my question for you, Jack. You're're the pitcher you're the guy who knows and we've heard a lot and i've spoken a lot about harrietta's second half and the numbers are dark and obviously in 2015 one of the great second halves of all time if not the greatest but he has been someone over the course of his career has gotten stronger as seasons have gone on. Is this just pie-in-the-sky type stuff, or are there stuff that you can see that you think are correctable and then kind of change this and turn this around? Well, I think Ariadne has always been a feel pitcher. When he feels right, he's great.

And once his mechanics are perfectly in line, he's great. It's just that his mechanics haven't been in line, and I wonder if that has to do with him not really uh participating in spring and spring training maybe that has something to do with it it takes a little bit longer for his body to get in shape maybe because he wasn't really throwing that much maybe this month has just been uh his arms a little tired uh his body's a little tired because he didn't get the full ramp up in spring training to to where he can come out feeling strong to start the season.

And sure, I think the first couple starts in May were a lot had to do with being amped up and the adrenaline. And now maybe that he's two months removed. Maybe he's just getting a little bit tired, maybe a little bit worn down. I think he's always been a guy that once he gets the feel of his mechanics, of his pitches, then he can go on a nice little run. I think Cliff Lee was kind of the same way. Cliff Lee would get hit around a couple starts

and then just lock in, dial in, and be unbelievable. I don't know if Arrieta can get to the levels that Cliff Lee was at, but I think Arrieta, the fact that his fastball is still 94 and it's still moving a lot, and if he can start to locate that as a completely different pitcher, I think he can get back to that and be a serviceable guy. I'm not, I'm not like pressing the panic button too hard because I think,

you know, for some reason, baseball has just become so reactionary and there's no, it's 162 game season. And we act like every single game is, is like a playoff game. Arrieta will, we'll get up,

we'll have a month where he looks really good again. I fully believe that because he's a field pitcher. He's a guy that relies on having his mechanics precise. Right now, there's a little bit out of whack. Everything's a little bit out of whack. And I trust him enough to figure it out. I feel exactly the same way as you, Jack. Especially, again, I know that past success isn't necessarily a definitive of future success.

But this is a guy who, like you said, he'll get into rhythms. He'll get into feeling that. Past success isn't necessarily a definitive of future success, but this is a guy who, like you said, he'll get into rhythms. He'll get into feeling that. That's how he had one of the great second halves in the history of baseball. And also, last season, just look back one year, all you have to look at how good he was in the second half. He's a guy who, like you said, he needs to have that feel and be locked in. So I feel the same way. I think that we're going to see good Jake Arrieta.

And look, we've seen, I mean, let us not forget that, like you mentioned, for whatever reason was whatever reason, but we've seen him pitch games where we've seen that Pirates game obviously stands out the most, but he's been good this year. It's not like he sucked every start out, and that Pirates game was, you know, an example of borderline sneak Jake Arrieta, and I think it's going to be hard for him to get to that level a lot, but that guy's still there. We saw it, and it wasn't just the Pirates. It wasn't just the matchup. It was the ball dancing all over the place and just unhittable and all that, so I'm with you. I think that, you know, especially for a guy like Arrieta

who is so intense with keeping himself in shape and working out and all that stuff, I agree with you. I think we've got a nice Jake Arrieta streak coming up. But for right now, it's certainly been disappointing. Yeah, and we talked about this on the podcast, and I'm sure the High Hopes listeners understand this. If you looked at his FIP during that run in May, you knew this regression was going to come.

He had a .83. I don't know, Jack. Howard Eskin told me FIP is a stupid stat. Yeah. Yeah. FIP's a ridiculous stat that totally doesn't find regression in most pitchers.

It's an incredibly predictive stat, but who cares about that? Right, it doesn't matter. I've said it. If you don't know what FIP is, it's fine. Just think about FIP. The best way I can explain it. Well, real quick, if you don't know yet, fielding independent pitching.

Right, and just the best way to explain it is, you know when a guy like Jake Arrieta is pitching to a 2-5 ERA, but in your heart of hearts, you know he's not actually pitching to a 2-5 ERA? That's basically what FIP is. I guess FIP would be around 3-5 ERA, but in your heart of hearts, you know he's not actually pitching to a 2-5 ERA. That's basically what FIP is. I guess FIP would be around 3-5. And that's more what he's throwing towards. I don't really explain this stuff more than just an inherent feeling.

It's just the concept is that it's everything a pitcher can control. It takes the defense out of the equation. It's strikeouts. It's walks. It's home runs. It's things where defense does not come into play and trying to figure out a pitcher's real production based just on what he can control.

Okay. One question for you, James. That's the theory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just trying to talk in layman's terms. Which is good, too. Question for you. If you need a big win right now, who are you trusting on the mound?

Jake Arrieta, Pavetta, or Zach Eflin? Great question. And I think for me, here's the thing. For me, there's no question that right now, today, Arrieta's third of that group for me. My question is, is Pavetta or Eflin first? For me, I would put Pavivetta one, Eflin two right now based on

the fact that I think Pivetta's highest end is just better than Eflin's highest end. We've seen it. I mean, that 13 strikeout, Jen, from a couple starts ago is implanted in my mind. And I also, like you said, with Eflin starting to become that bulldog,

Pavetta's always been that guy. So I think if I had, and again, it's crazy. How is Jake Arrieta not the automatic go-to answer here? And look, and again, I think this answer could change come September. If we start to see that Jake Arrieta, I could, you know, lean back on the experience and the big game and all that. But right now, the way these guys are pitching right now, I would put Nick Pavetta in the big game with Zach Eflin very close.

We just talked about it. Eflin just did that in June. So I think it would be Pavetta, one Eflin, three Arrieta, three, which is crazy. Yeah. I mean, I've been talking about wild card game Pavetta. Wild card Pavetta. Wildcard Pavetta! I will speak it into existence.

The only way it happens is if somehow they need to win the last game of the season and Nola pitches someone. But I think we can all agree that Nola is the wildcard game pitcher if it comes down and they can use anyone. Right, yeah. I mean, he will be. He will be. And I don't want anyone else in that position.

Exactly. We can all agree. But I think the fact that Pavetta right now is number two is an absurd notion. Yeah, but it's also fun. The one guy we didn't mention who started on Monday night against... Yeah, you got a take coming here. Is my take just that I'm done with Vince Velasquez? Yes! I'm surprised because other than that 10-run outing where he got just shellacked, I've really been impressed with Vinny.

I think that for the most part, I've never felt as confident with Vinny taking the hill as I do now. And granted, I feel more confident with Pavetta or Nola or whatever, but I feel so much better about Velasquez than I have in a long time. Why are you down with him? Because he doesn't throw strikes. He doesn't throw strikes. He nibbles. He's just so fidgety out on the mound.

I don't trust him in any scenario. His games, the main crux of this is that his games take like four hours. He is so brutal to watch. Oh, he's a horrible watch he works so slow uh i i can't stand watching him i actually was watching the other night on monday and i had to take my trash out and i literally was able to watch a pitch go upstairs run some trash the front door come back before the next pitch it was a crazy i couldn't believe he had to run a pitch vince velasquez makes me want to fall asleep.

It's brutal. I don't like watching him pitch at all. I don't enjoy any time he throws because the game's like that's what people are talking about. Literally, watching him on Monday night, I was like, I don't think the pitch clock's that bad of an idea. The 22nd pitch clock,

just freaking do it. Only for Vince Velasquez starts at this point. Like I just can't take it. It takes forever. He just throws easy. Like just dude, dude, you have 97 in your back pocket whenever you want it. They can't square it up every time. Look at all these Yankees guys they're bringing out.

They're all throwing 97. They're coming right at you. Whereas Vince Velasquez is nibbling around, nibbling around. He'll throw like a 3-2 curveball. And it's like, dude, what are you doing? He has a pitching IQ of a 12-year-old. I just can't take it. I don't trust him at all.

Listen, if Eikhoff comes back and looks fine, I'm putting Vince Velasquez somewhere else. I'm not taking Eflin out of the rotation. Oh, wow. He stinks. I don't know what to do there. It's a really interesting thing you bring up because you're obviously it was originally

Eflin, Eflin, Eflin, Eflin's not going anywhere Eflin's a fixture of this rotation at least for now maybe before bad starts in a row and you think about something else but right now Zach Eflin's not going anywhere obviously Pavetta Nolan not going anywhere and whatever Jake Arrieta not going anywhere

so look I'm with you in the sense that it comes down to Velasquez and Eikhoff. I think that is a fair take. I just don't see how they take Velasquez out of the rotation. He's had one bad start in the past two months, and I know he's frustrating to watch. He nibbles. He's pitching six innings back, except the time he went six and two-thirds and almost had a no-hitter going or whatever.

But I just, I think that, I mean, he's like, I get it, and he's frustrating to watch, and the six-inning-lack type thing is frustrating, but the result of that, I mean, he pitched well against the Yankees. It was boring. It was too many pitches and all that. He kept them in the game, you know. The bats could score too runs if they tied.

You know, so I feel you, but look, I don't see Eikhoff. And I was a Jared Eikhoff fan. I have been an Eikhoff fan. I was still living off a couple years ago, and that's where I got to walk. I don't know. I understand the problem because Eikhoff's not somebody who's thick in the bullpen. He doesn't have that type of stuff or arm. But at the same time, would you really rather have Jared Eikhoff pitching the Mets than the Blaskins right now?

Because I wouldn't. Probably not. But my eyes would enjoy it more. It's just like, even when he's throwing a no-hitter, he's had two no-hitters in the sixth inning this year, and it's taken four hours to get to the sixth inning. It's just like, oh, my. Look, I think that is a really, as someone who watches every game, that is a really fair take.

Vincent Velasquez games are brutal to watch. Like, it's like you don't need to step off the mound and, like, walk around the mound after every freaking pitch. I don't get it. What are you doing? Like, I'm very with you on this. I hate watching him, but I also have been much more impressed than I expected to be at this point in the season

with the last couple months of this pitch. And what's interesting is you look at all these minor league guys that come up, and even Seve a little bit, and they just work at a much quicker pace. And I think that's directly related to the the minor league pitch clock you know me and me and Joe Giglio were at the Redding game like three weeks ago watching Rangers Suarez and they were using the pitch clock or whatever the shot clock and it was it was 20 seconds and you better get your signs right with your catcher else you're screwed but the game was moving along at a really

really good pace I I used to hate it. I don't think I hate it, and it's only because of Vince Velasquez. So he has ruined the old-time baseball take in me. Look, I agree with you, and I'm all for that. There's no reason. That Monday game took forever, and then the next two games

flew by. I mean, they were quick games because they just kept boom, boom, boom, pitch. No one was really quick. I mean, Velasquez is really the only guy on this staff. I mean, they were quick games because they just kept, boom, boom, boom, pitch. Noah works really quick. I mean, Velasquez is really the only guy on this staff. I mean, Pavetta works pretty quick. Velasquez is the only guy who I feel this way with, but I support this take.

I just, I don't support replacing Velasquez in the rotation because he's boring to watch. And it's better pitching, too. Like, if you're working quick and you're confident, it makes your pitches better. It catches the hitters off guard. That's what I think.

That's a great point. It's always like, oh, I'm trying to throw the hitters' timing off and stuff. This isn't doing that at all. No. And look at Severino. He can go fast, fast, fast, and then throw 100 miles an hour. It's crazy. Although, watching Severino the other night got me really excited

for Sixto Sanchez because I think that Sixto could be Severino. And just to watch that guy on a night in, night out basis, and just to dream on Sixto being a guy like that, it makes it move a little bit. Oh my god.

I mean, Severino was hitting 98 in the 8th inning or 7th inning or whatever it was. He's built like a tank, too Oh, my God. I mean, if Severino was hitting 98 in the eighth inning or seventh inning or whatever it was, I mean, yeah. He's built like a tank, too. He's awesome. And I mean, he's one of those guys who last year

had the whole, like, first-team thing and, you know, pitched, you know, 80 or 90 more innings, 100 more innings than he'd ever pitched. He's just fine.

He's come down and he's fine again. He's just awesome. He's just a bulldog. He's great. So, other awesome. He's a bulldog. Yeah, he's great. So other takeaways from the Yankees series, looking for positives mostly. I mean, the first two games were pretty brutal.

Last night, it was a nice win. Eflin was great. It was. But it was – this team has been resilient all year. Whenever they're kind of in a slide or whatever, they finally bounce out of it. I thought it was, again, like you mentioned, maybe Aaron Judge and I will line up a couple of regulars out,

but they beat the Yankees. And I thought it was a big win for the fan base more than anything. Yeah, and it was a nice reward for the fans that came the first two nights and got embarrassed by the Yankees fans. It was nice for them to win last night. And hopefully, with this big series starting this weekend, hopefully we can get similar-ish crowds. I know they won't get 40-some thousand, but if we can get 35,

between 30 and 35, I'd be very happy. I mean, it's a big series. It's the biggest series here in a couple years. I know we feel like we've said that a thousand times. No, it is, though. That's the point. It's the biggest series here since 2011. The Phillies have not been this many games over.500

this late in the season since 2011. And they are one game up on the Nationals right now. Jack, it is. And look, you're right. We're going to keep saying that. And I can't wait until it's the first series of September and they're in it. We could say it's the biggest series since 2011. But that's what happens when you haven't been relevant for seven years.

Right. You know? Right, right, right. The Hoskins thing on Monday, whatever, I don't really care anymore. Arguing back with the fan, I like that he cares.

I like that he's passionate about it, and I like that he was mad at himself in that situation. And listen, as a guy who was volatile on the mound, and when I got off the mound, I probably would have done the same exact thing.

So I knew where Reese was coming from. And I like that he owned up to it after the game. That's what your leader does. And I like that. I just like that he cares. And I like that he didn't come through in a big spot and he was mad about it. Jack, that was my exact takeaway, too. Look, I think he knows you can't yell at him.

He knows. As soon as it happened after the game, he didn't even give reporters a chance to get out. Remember, he's like, my bad. I was wrong. I can't ever do that and i love that but like you said even more even more than him knowing you shouldn't done it the way he responded i love the fact that he did it i love the fact that he was fired up that much after just uh uh up stupid play by him and even then i think he was more mad that he didn't hit the ball, more so than that he didn't run to first

base. But regardless, I was happy he was pissed there. And I think it's been fun this year because Reeves, the way he goes about his business is so mechanical, so robotic, so he knows it's so precise, the way he does everything

that he does. But we've seen as we start to get to see him play more games and playing games that matter and whatnot, he has that edge. We saw it in the Washington game that they ended up losing, but where he had that double to tie it, I mean, he was fired up at second base there, and

I love that. That's what I want to see from the leader of my team, from the guy who's going to be the best hitter on this team until they sign Bryce and whatever, my team, from the guy who's going to be the best hitter on this team until they sign Bryce O'Brien or whatever. But, you know, the guy who's that centerpiece of the guys coming up now, that's the exact type of attitude and fire I want to see. Agreed. Other thing, Hector Neres came back up. He looked pretty good. He looked really good. Spotting both sides of the plate with his fastball, looked like he was being more aggressive,

and the splitter was falling off the table again. If they can get him going, especially with Edebri hitting the DL, Luis Garcia, who they think is going to be back soon, but he's in the DL, Pat Neshek working his way back, they need to find another arm they can trust. And hopefully Hector, because Hector, two years ago, when he was a setup guy, Hector was really good. He's a really valuable pitcher. He was the best pitcher on their team that year.

Yeah, and if they can get him going a little bit here, it helps them so much weather the storm until Neshek's back. It's, Jack, it's such a great point. And I think that people got so frustrated with Neres, and rightfully so. We were as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Some of the ways they lost games,, of course, that, you know, four-run outburst with making a blowout, a close game in his last game

before he went down. I think a lot of people just were out on him and also kind of forgot how good he used to be. Because he was really good when he was a 7th-8th inning guy there. Even when he first started closing his night, he was their closer last year, and he had some bad spots. On the whole, his numbers were significantly better than they've been so far this season.

He's a good pitcher, and we talked a lot about how we thought it had a lot to do with the confidence, and he's not a ninth inning guy, and all those types of things. I think that's what it was. I think the picture that talent is still there, that's kind of something we've talked a lot about with his bullpen, is that a lot of it was. I think the picture that talent is still there, that's kind of something

we've talked a lot about with his bullpen is that, you know, a lot of it is that there is a lot more talent than he's shown over the last couple months. And I think there's a perfect example of that. And you just hope that getting sent down, getting the pressure of being the closer off of him, coming back, working in the seventh inning, maybe the eighth inning, the sixth inning, whatever he's needed, taking that pressure off and just letting him pitch and do what he does. Look, I'm with you. I think it's going to be a long time before Phillies fans feel good when Hector Neres comes into a game again.

But I think it's certainly possible that he could become a valuable reliever for this team down the road. Yes, and they need him to be if they want to take the next level. I agree. And there has been some more speculation. I saw that Mikel Franco, the Padres are interested in him somehow.

Ooh, love it. They took Freddie off our hands. Now they're going to take Mikel. Let's do this. Listen, if Franco headlines a deal for Bradhand, I mean, are we sure AJ Preller's good at his job? No, then we know that he's not. Yeah. I think it's a takeaway.

Yeah. Remember that couple summers ago that AJ Preller is a ninja takes? Yes, yes, I do. Where did those go? I miss them. But I have become, since our last podcast, more and more in the camp of go get a controllable reliever, whether it's him, whether it's Rossiol Iglesias, trying to an extent.

But one of those two, I'm fully in on them giving up legitimate assets to go get one of those guys because I just think if you're looking at this team next year, there's not really a closer in-house unless you put Sir Anthony in that role. If you go get a Brad Hand, you go get a Rossiel Iglesias, it lets Sir Anthony be your fireman. It lets Brad Hand or Rossiel be your closer and shut things down in the ninth inning. And it kind of just lets everyone fall into place

and gives you a chance this year. I mean, how much better would you like? I think part of the reason that Phillies fans haven't been coming to the ballparks in droves or aren't fully bought in on this team being a legitimate wildcard contending team is the fact that

once the bullpen enters the game, every single take is, well, here comes the blown game. They're going to lose it. How are they going to blow this one? That's every single time they come into the game. I would just feel so much better about this team if they had a legitimate guy at the end of a game and they can just float Sir Anthony all around and I become more and more in

on going and trying to get a controllable guy. Yeah, I've been in on that from the jump for the most part, and again, it's all dependent upon the assets you have to give up and why in the future versus now, but the thing about getting a guy who's controllable, like you said, Jack, it really is something that can help this team now.

And moving into when they're really, really contending and trying to win the World Series. Not that they're not trying this year, but we all know that the success this year is great, but it wasn't what was intended. And I think that getting a guy like that, especially, I think Hand works for a lot of reasons, first and foremost. Obviously, he's a guy who can quote, but he's also a guy who you don't have to have

conventional roles with, and he can as a left-hander, is actually someone who gives you something you don't have right now, a.k.a. a left-hander you can trust in the bullpen. So I think he's certainly there. I see his fan as well.

He is just terrific to watch. He is a lot of fun to watch, and he is locked out at the end of games. I think he's a more, if you're looking at a more conventional closer, I think Iglesias is that guy. I think if you want a guy that you can kind of mix and match. And look, the Padres have done that a bit this year. I think Kirby Yates has three or four saves. They've done that, where they'll bring Brad Hand in in the eighth inning if it's

left-heavy matchups or whatever. And I love that aspect, especially for Kapler, especially for the way they're running this team. I think Brad Hand makes so much sense because you can mix and match with him and Dominguez, and then you have two elite firemen type of guys who are both willing to work

in different roles. And then you can really play the matchups with two guys who are both willing to work in different roles. And then you can really play the matchups with two guys who are top of the line. So I love the hand idea. And again, Iglesias, I love the idea of Iglesias just because I do think that if you get Iglesias,

then that really does just free you up to Anthony in that fireman role. And just whenever you need him in there and Iglesias has a nice on lock. So I think both of those are my two favorite names. The control him in there, and Iglesias has a ninth on lock. So I think those are my two favorite names. The control guys out there, obviously. There are other guys that could not control a free agent at the end of the year, but a name that has been very good since returning. But there are guys out there. There's a fair amount of guys out there.

And look, even at step-down, if you're not looking for a closer, per se, there are still some arms out there that you could get. I mean, half the Mets bullpen is really good, and I'm sure you can get anyone in the Mets. Mets probably really can trade anything they can, a guy like Anthony Swarczak or Robert Gisellman or anything like that. I think there are ways that they can do this without having to give up real assets. But at the same time, I think, like you said, for me at least,

again, depending on the package, but if they can get by not giving up their high-end assets and coming back with a guy like Iglesias or a guy like Hand, for me, that's my best-case scenario. Yeah, I just have no interest in rentals at this point. I don't want – Agreed. Because, listen, I think this season's been great,

but this team's not winning the World Series this year. And I don't – I think putting together packages for rentals is just a mistake and short-sighted for a team that since Klintzak's been here has never been short-sighted. And doing a trade for Zach Britton, yeah, it helps, but this season doesn't really matter. It's about three to four years from now,

and if you have a guy like Iglesias, a guy like Hand, you trade prospects for them, and then this offseason you go get Machado and Harper, it kind of just takes one of your holes away. And, I don't know, like Beltre I think would be cool. Beltre, I was going to say, I think Beltre is kind of a different type of

in the sense that he's not going to cost that much at all, I think, at this point with his age and in a contract year. And he's going nowhere. So I think Beltre is interesting, especially because Beltre would bring a little more to a team that is trying to get those reps. And I think that there is value in playing meaningful September games and getting off reps.

I think all that matters. But I agree with you that, on the whole, as a basic premise, I'm not giving up a single thing that I think can help me win in 2019 or beyond in order to help me win this year. Agreed. And Beltre could kind of be like your Tome. Like a Hall of Famer. Obviously it wouldn't be the same kind of length, but just the legitimacy.

And you know what? If you bring in Beltre and he wants to play again next year and you miss out on Machado and you miss out on Harper, he's a pretty nice fallback option on like a two-year, $20 million deal. 100% agree with that, Jack. Okay. So this weekend, the Nationals come into town. Aaron Nola going against Tanner Roark tonight,

which is, I mean, it's always a great Nola night, and you will be in the house for that one. I will be in the house tonight, Jack. So I'll get this out. Midday show, listeners, type of thing. It's going to be fun. I will get this out before the game so that if the listeners want to meet up,

they can come and find you. Please, hit me up, at James Seltzer on Twitter. Nice. Saturday, you have Nick Pavetta versus Eric Fetty. I'm going to throw out this take right now. I would trade legitimate prospects to try to get Eric Fetty. I think Eric Fetty is going to be really, really good. Wow.

I know his numbers aren't good, but I think that guy is going to be something. I like him a lot. I don't think he's good right now, but I think he's so young to where, obviously, he doesn't have to be amazing right away. But down the road, I'm a big Eric Fetty guy. Yeah, I look, he impressed me last weekend when they faced him. He looked a lot better than I thought he was. That was the first time I had seen him pitch. As you know, which is surprising because as you know, Jack, I watched random baseball all the time. I'll be watching a Brewers Rockies game and text you about it.

But I hadn't seen Fetty pitch until that game, and I was really impressed with him as well. So I don't know enough about him. The minor league numbers look really good. So I could totally see that being an interesting name at the same time. I'm sure Washington probably wants to keep him around. Maybe we could trade Jonathan Papappelbon for him. Maybe that would work out again.

We've had good success trading Jonathan Pappelbon. Saturday, thank God I'm not working this game from the station because we have Vince Velasquez on the mound versus to be announced from the Nationals. I don't think to be announced is very good. Well, I'm pretty sure it looks like it's going to be our old friend, Mr. Jeremy Hellickson. Oh, yes. Yes.

Who I can't believe. Like, Jeremy Hellickson would fool me for about a month and a half to where I'm like, this guy might be good. And then he'd start blowing up. I hope that his first blow up is on Saturday because he's had. Well, that's because, man, he won the rookie of the year doing that. Yeah. Yeah. He's not very good. But he's been good this year.

He's coming back from injury. But hopefully the Phillies can knock him around the park a little bit. And then Sunday, Geo versus Jake Arrieta. Geo got destroyed against the Devil Rays. Yeah, six or seven runs in an inning of work. It was not good. It was great as a Phillies fan. It was not great for my fans. Yeah, I or seven runs in an inning of work. It was not good. It was great as a Phillies fan. It was not great for my

fans. Yeah, I can't tell you that much. It's a big weekend, and the Nationals are down. We're a half game up on them. Listen, I just hope, after we saw the juice back in the ballpark, I hope that there's like 35,000. That's all

I'm asking for. Go down to the ballpark and watch this team. We missed Scherzer again, which is unbelievable. It's huge. I heard someone call in. It was your buddy, your boy, Joe Giulio, in for Marks, but call into Marks and Reese and say, I heard John Krupp. I heard John Krupp say that the Phillies were getting lucky.

It was a good thing they were missing Max Scherzer. If it were the Yankees, they'd want Max Scherzer. You've got to beat the best to be the best. I'm like, what are you talking about? I hope that we miss Max Scherzer all 19 times we play the Nationals this year. Yeah, same. And they should have beat him earlier this year. That game was frustrating.

A Hector Neres special. For me, of all the Hector Neres frustrating games, there have been a lot this year. That was my most frustrated. I know there have been worse. I'm sure other people will feel there was worse. But that game, fighting back against Scherzer, maybe the last good game

Jake Arrieta had, by the way, fighting back against Scherzer. Maybe the last good game Jake Arrieta had, by the way. Fighting back against Scherzer, and for him to walk in that run, and Wilmer, he fell. I don't even know how that guy is, and he's getting gave a hit. I was not a fan of that. Not at all. Okay, also yesterday, Jason Wirth

retired, and I have long been on the train of booing Jason Worth is stupid. He's better than Pat Burrell. He's a legend in this town. Is that even a question? Do people actually think Pat Burrell was a better player than Jason Worth? Yeah.

I don't think they do. Idiot baseball fans who are like, Whoa, Pat the Bat, Burrell's girls, all those people. Jason Worth, I really hope that one day they put him in the philly's wall of fame and i think i think it would be malpractice not to put jason worth in the philly's wall of fame he batted 444 in the 2008 world series he was always great in the postseason got big hits after big hits um and played a great right field jason worth uh yesterday, a great Philly, and I hope that at the 10-year reunion

he gets cheered for what he did here. How about this? I'll take it a step further. I think it would be outrageous. I think I don't like you as a Philly fan if you're going to boo Jason Worth in that spot. Let it go. The man left to get

$126 million from the Washington Nationals, okay? The Phillies weren't even in the atmosphere with that type of offer. What do you want the guy to do? If someone offers you $126 million and it's $40 or $50 million more than your current employer is offering you, you're going to sit there. Stop it. The man did what he had to do. He was a great Philly. He is a major, as you mentioned, Jackie,

big reason why all of us actually got to watch and, you know, enjoy a World Series championship, the only one in my lifetime, the only one in your lifetime. Enough. Enough. He's paid his dues. He's done enough Jason Worth hating. I get the concept of him in national,

and I'm not going to root for him, and I might boo him or whatever. It's over. He's retired. Please, I'm with you, Jason. Like a PSA, please, I implore you people, appreciate what this guy did in this city. Forget the fact that he took money,

and maybe everyone's like, oh, he's sick. It's like, whatever, man. He helped win us the World Series. He never did to me. He didn't do anything to you. He call you up and call you a jerk or whatever? No. Whatever.

Get over it. The dude went for way more money. You can't blame him for that. And he was the major reason they won the World Series. So get over it. And the Phillies lied to him and said they didn't have any money for him and then went and signed Cliff Lee. That's true, too. I think I'd be pretty pissed off at my former

employer as well if they lied to me. Dad, you never say anything about the fans, alright? He was stripping the Phillies. Come on. Yeah, it's embarrassing. Alright, any final thoughts, James, before we get on out of here? No, just rate and review the podcast.

Please, please, please. It helps people follow the Phillies podcast. They type in Phillies, all that good stuff. And more importantly, it makes my buddy Jack happy. And I love Jack, so I wanted to be happy. So big for Jack. And again, like you said, he's getting this up now. I'm heading down to the game tonight.

A little Aaron Nola day, a little Aaron Nola night. It's going to be fun, so please hit me up. And my final thought is stop playing Nick Williams stop playing him every single night we didn't argue about this

like it is it is so annoying that they keep playing him every night Aaron Altair the upside of Aaron Altair what he brings to this team

you have to get him going it is more important to get him going than playing Nick Williams every single night because Aaron Altair at his best is Jason Worthlight. He batted

276 last year with a 340-something OBP with 19 homers. That is not a bad player. That is a valuable player. He plays a great right field. I think they have to start playing him more and more. Nick Williams is not the answer. In fact, I would put Nick Williams in any trade offer that is brought to me to get him more and more. Nick Williams is not the answer. In fact, I would put Nick Williams in

any trade offer that is brought to me to get him out of town. Man, you hate Nick Williams. Right now, I think Nick Williams is a place to do much better. That doesn't matter. I'm talking about the upside of this team. I'm with you. If you ask me who do I like more

as a player along the pyramid, I would still say Aaron Altair. I'm with you. I think the upside of Altair is worth it. But at the same time, look, I get the concept. You want to get guys out there. You want to get reps. You want to have them develop. But at the same time, the team's trying to win. They're trying to make the playoffs. Aaron Altair has been really bad,

Jack. He's been so bad. He smoked two balls last night. He smoked two balls last night. He did! I know! And look smoked two balls last night. He did. I know. And look, he's been huge in clutch spots. Look, again, I'm an Aaron Altair fan over at Williams, but right now I think you have to at least have a platoon or something.

I don't hate it the same way you do because Williams has been better. It's all smoke and mirrors. I'm not an overreactive baseball fan.'s like oh Aaron Altair can't even hit like the guy's been good for two years now I want to see him get a shot every day and the upside of this team just gets so much better well I think the problem is

that he was good then he sucked then he was good again he has not put together back to back good years yet I think that's part of it, too. Yeah, well, just give him a shot. He'll be fine. Alright, well, that's going to do it for this episode of the High Ops Podcast. We will be back on Sunday night

after, hopefully, 3 or 4. Give me 3 or 4 with 35,000 plus in attendance. Sound fair? Give us no rain delays on Sunday night so I'm not so angry and stuff when we talk. Is it on Sunday night?

Oh, it's not even a Sunday night game. So yeah, you know what? Perfect. Never mind. Yeah, relax. I didn't even say that. Okay, we'll talk to you

on Sunday. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford

and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game it's my podcast it's my passion it's a cause i started more than two years ago and it's now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is another fact so jump aboard the bib express follow and listen to baseball isn't boring presented by wasabi hot cloud storage on the free odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts