High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: Harper and Machado Don't Want Us, Eh?

Episode Date: December 29, 2018

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are in studio today talking about the Joel Sherman, agent spewed BS, report that Bryce Harper and Manny Machado supposedly don't want us. The guys talk about that, the Dodgers trade, Dallas Keuchel, the Jason Ochart hiring and take your mailbag questions. Rate and review! See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's a bunch of baseball nerds, well, without the computers, talking about the Philadelphia Phillies on Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo, it is the final edition of High Hopes in 2018. And if I do say so myself, I would say it's been a banner year for the High Hopes podcast. James Seltzer, Jackie Fritz coming your way. Maybe not a banner offseason so far for the IOMS podcast. James Shelter, Jackie Fritz coming your way. Maybe not a banner offseason so far for the Phillies, Jack. The last show we did, we basically just yelled for about 45 minutes. Probably not as much yelling this time,

but there are certainly things that we could yell about if we wanted to. Look, the Machado Harper market is taking time. We started to see that coming. Originally thought it wasn't time. We started to see that coming. Originally thought it wasn't going to. Starting to see that coming. I guess the news, let's start with the news of the week, and we'll get some mailbag questions later. We've obviously got to discuss the reliever market,

the rumors about starting pitchers, one in particular who might cost a lot of money, who Jack and I really don't want them to spend a lot of money on. But let's start with, I mean, it feels like every show we do until something happens, it's Harper Machado and James. James, hasn't this offseason just been, it's been one big blue balls? It's been like three years of blue balls leading up to now, which is making it even more blue ball-y.

That's what makes it so annoying. It's like, we've been waiting for this since 2015. And since the first, I forget what article, I forget what publication it came out on, but it was like, have you seen the 2018, 2019 free agent class? Oh, yeah. I feel like Jeff Passon was one of the first ones really beating the drum on it. And it's crazy how it's all worked. I mean, obviously, Jose Fernandez passing away is unfortunate.

Yep. Because if he was in this market. I mean, he'd be the top pitcher on the market, bar none. Bar none. But Kersh. He could be in the running for best pitcher in baseball with another couple years i think he already was i think he already was too i mean what a what a tragedy i know i'm still like i that i usually don't react to celebrity death dude i felt that i i had the same thing like i actually cried when i when i it was on my birthday passed

away on my birthday i woke up in the morning on my birthday two years ago and my wife says to me do you know jose fernandez is And I'm like, yeah, duh, he's one of the best pitchers in baseball. And she's like, he's dead. And I was like, and I actually cried. Like I was like, the kid was 21 years, I was like, it was so,

and you know, when you hear his story about how he, you know, from Cuba and how he got here and all, it was just really a tough one. I'm with you. Yeah, that was the day of Jill's sister's wedding too.

And we were at, we were getting ready for it and I was checking my phone and I was like, did I see Jose Fernandez? I was like, what? I was like, are you kidding me? Yeah. So if Jose Fernandez was in this class, I mean, this was supposed to be the McCutcheon class as well to go along with Harper Machado, Kershaw. People thought McCutcheon was still going to be a potential MVP-type player. Right. So this class—

And Josh Donaldson, when people talked about the class, another MVP caliber type guy. Like a lot of the guys who were part of this. Kimbrell, obviously. He's still available. Yeah, for sure. Andrew Miller. It was viewed as a crazy class. At the time, it was viewed as like every great player in baseball is going to be in this class.

And not quite the case. I mean, I like McCutcheon. We've said we like McCutcheon. But it's not like we're getting no if he if he was a free agent in 2016 he's getting 200 million now that he's a free agent at age 31 32 he's getting 50 100 and I think especially on the pitching side of things and Jose Fernandez part of it and just Kershaw clearly not leaving and there were so many aspects to it that kind of made the class less exciting

than everyone thought it was going to be. Having said that, and as we've said many times, Harper and Machado are still those seminal generational free agents and that has not changed and they are both on the market and the Phillies are in the running for both. So there is still reason for hope and optimism and all that, but Joel Sherman, the news of the week, basically Joel Sherman in the news of the wig basically uh joel sherman in the span of one article and one tweet became number one enemy in philadelphia it was like so sherman comes out and says uh that one and hayman had been saying with harper for a

little bit there that that they don't want to play in philadelphia jack we talked about this last time, and I'm doubling and tripling down on it. I don't believe a single word I hear from any of these guys. It's not their fault. They're getting it from boards. They're getting it from here, there, whatever. I don't believe a word I hear. Not one. They have to report what they've heard, which is fine.

It's their job. It's their job. And listen, clicks pay the bills. Having your name out there pays the bills. No question. They got to do their job. I mean, Joe Sherman, the New York Post here. Right.

Which is basically a tabloid paper, right? It is. And he's a good reporter, but clicks still matter. Yes. So it's just ridiculous. I mean, Harper said many times that he likes Philadelphia. Boris literally said out of his own mouth that he likes playing in Philadelphia and would have no problem playing there.

Machado was just here and said how awesome it was. And these are guys who were in Washington and Baltimore. And we're fine. And we're happy in their time there. I mean, Harper glows about Washington. I feel like Harper was in baseball depression. Washington is a horrible baseball town. Horrible.

They didn't have baseball there. Nobody goes. Nobody cares. There's no history horrible they didn't have baseball there nobody goes nobody cares there's no history they didn't baseball is it 2004 Ryan Zimmerman is the best player in the history of that franchise all right I mean Bryce Harper is technically but like or Max Scherzer is now but like in terms of numbers the Washington Nationals themselves Ryan Zimmerman like that's their guy Zimmerman Brian Schneider like they will have a statue of Ryan Zimmerman in Washington one day. And the one thing that they're known for is that Ted Williams was their manager in the 1950s. Exactly. And that wasn't even the same team.

I mean, come on. I know. So I just feel like... The Expos have more history than the Nationals is the point. Here's what has to happen. This is what's so frustrating about talking about the Phillies and the state of the Phillies with just general baseball fans and Phillies fans on Twitter and people who don't see the vision.

What the Phillies desperately need is they desperately need one of these guys to see the vision. Because when these guys broke in, it was 2012, and the Phillies were on the downtrend was 2012 and the phillies were on the downtrend then and the ballpark wasn't jumping like i hope in their i hope in their pre and their free agent presentations they show them what the ballpark was like um every single night for four years there for five years there because it was this was a baseball town this place was big town alive with baseball it is a great baseball town it's just like and everyone talks about well

they didn't show up last year. I will say one thing about Philadelphia fans is that they know when a team is legit. They can sniff it out. I totally agree with you. People just didn't buy in and they were right not to. They were right not to

and we tried to beat the drum. They're actually good. Even though I feel like when me and you were watching the team last year, we said to each other many times. We're like, how are they doing this? How are they a first place team right now? What is going on right now?

But they're doing it. Right, and eventually everything caught up and whatever. If they add in Bryce Harper and they add in these free agent pieces and whatever, the fans are going to show up. Especially like you said, they're already better. They're already a better team today than they were at the end of the season. Just by the Segura and McCutcheon moves and all that stuff.

But I agree with you. And you've said it, Winning cures all. It cures all. If they win and they win believably, and they win where it's a team where you feel they have a real chance, people will be there. Right. And I just, we need one of these guys to not buy into the

no one wants to play or it's a bad sports town or whatever it is. Like, they just have to see the vision. They have to understand the vision. And I think they will. I still think one of these guys will. Also, the other thing this week that was, well, since we last recorded, was the Dodgers big trade. Which got everyone in a panic.

Casey Young. Including me. Casey Young, my one Dodgers fan friend, just texts me, Dodgers and all caps, likes, and maids. I'm like, Casey, chill the hell, brother. I know. Well, even me. Like, even I was susceptible to it.

Everyone's like, oh, well, that's it. Because it looked like it. I mean, they were clearing. Look, they traded Puig. They traded these big salary Kemp. They traded outfielder big salaries. They had six outfielders, but they still, you look at it and you say, oh, I see that.

I mean, it's so clear what they're doing. Yeah, so it felt like Harper. Now, since the dust has cleared a little bit. It doesn't look like it's Harper. So it looks like to me it's going to be Pollock, a JT Real Muto trade using Alex Verdugo, finally trading Alex Verdugo, who isn't even good. One of the more overhyped prospects in the sport. But what I will say is,

can someone who's not the Phillies please just trade for JT Romito and end this? Because I don't. Great player. He's the best catcher in baseball. Sure. I know people say that like it's like he's like far and away. He's not like Buster Posey from five years ago or whatever.

He's not like easily no doubt about it. I mean, Sanchez has won decent season back. Exactly. Away from being back. Away from being the better catcher. And not defensively, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just feel like the Real Muto thing has become such a, like, teams are giving up fortunes for this guy.

He's a really nice player, but I think with Alfaro and the future he could have, I just, I don't want to see the Phillies give up what it's going to take to get Real Muto. I would rather save assets and trade for Francisco Cervelli and get him to be the backup. Me too, in a second. Don't you have a— I'd rather pay Yasmany Grandal. And I don't want to do that, but I don't want to do— I love Yasmany.

I do too. And that's not the route I want the Phillies to take because I think, you know, who knows how the market plays out. They might be able to get him cheap. That's what I'm saying. If the market plays out and you can sign him late, like kind of this Arrieta where they did, but you know, and that contract,

not the best, but they did get a discount compared to what he thought he was going to get. If you waited out the market, like guys like Moustakis come back for one year deals. I did see his money turned down four years, 60 million. And that's why, look, I don't want to give him that kind of money,

but I would rather do that than give up real assets for Real Muto. I don't think Real Muto is that much better than Ronda. Yeah. So, it doesn't, so three years ago, Jonathan Luke Roy was the best catcher in baseball. He was. Remember at the trade deadline?

When the Rangers traded for him, the Indians were willing to give up. I can't remember what it was, but it was like a legit package of prospects, and Luke Roy said, I'm not going to Cleveland. Sorry. And he went to Texas. Yeah, and then the Indians went to the World Series, and this and that, and all that, and whatever. Yeah, but I had the same kind of vibes from JT Real Muto. Sorry. And they went to Texas. Yeah. And then the Indians went to the World Series and this and that and all that and whatever. Yeah.

But I had the same kind of vibes from JT Real Muto. I mean, now Luke Roy just signed a one-year deal yesterday. Yeah. Like, it's just catching so volatile. And plus, he's going to be a first baseman in two years or three years. And you already have Hoskins. It just doesn't make sense to trade for him. Totally agree.

Unless you're a team like the Dodgers that needs him to put you over the top. Right. So back to the Dodgers. Feeling more like that type of thing. They're in on Kluber, it looks like. Yeah, and they should be. They should be. Their staff is older.

Yeah, I mean, if you could put Kershaw on, as you've discussed your issues with Kluber and the potential of like, why would the Indians want to get rid of this guy with this contract, this age? But like, for the Dodgers. It said first on this podcast. It was said first. Yes, it was. I had never heard anyone say it, so you said it to me just saying.

It was said first on the High Hopes podcast. This one. Right. The one we're doing right now um but to that point um i'm with you like i never that kluber to the dodgers to pair with kershaw with hill with that like older type of rotation ryu go for it now i think that makes a lot of sense for them and they just traded alex wood so there comes there goes some more rotation depth the the dodgers have a lot of sense for them. And they just traded Alex Wood, so there goes some more rotation depth. The Dodgers have a bunch of dudes that can start games, but they don't really have a – Kershaw, you're probably going to miss a month of the season. Ryu can never stay healthy.

Kluber would be the machine for them. Kluber would be the machine. It would be like adding Granke to that team in what? A better Granke. Yeah, 2016 when Granke was there. A more consistent Granke. Right. So Kluber makes a lot of –

they're going to package Verdugo in some kind of deal for either Real Muto or Kluber. I fundamentally believe that. And I agree with you. And I also think that just from a... The way the Dodgers go about their business, they're not giving a 10-year offer to one of these guys. They're not paying the most money on the market. As we've discussed, maybe if Harper wants a five-year deal, which just seems crazy to me.

That's not the Boris way. I agree with you. Boris wants the sticker. Boris wants the biggest contract in the history of the sport number. That's what that guy wants, and that's what he's going to get if Harper wants to do it too. The Dodgers aren't doing that. That's not the way Andrew Friedman, Zahidi, these guys don't work this way.

And for all this, well, he might take less money or might take less years. I just, this is still Scott Boris. And Bryce Harper is obsessed with, and he tries to play it off like he's not this cocky, arrogant guy. He's a cocky, arrogant guy. And he would love to say I'm the highest paid player in the history of baseball. I agree. If he, there's a 0% chance he takes a less contract than Giancarlo Sane got, he is going to surpass 325.

Because that is a part of the Bryce Harper ego. And Bryce Harper has a massive ego. He's been the guy since he was 16 years old. It's on the covers for the next LeBron. Baseball's LeBron. Right. So I do not buy into any scenario where he takes less years and less money to go out.

I just don't. I agree. I fundamentally do not believe that. Also, two things. Two things. The Dodgers are also in the process of getting investors to buy into the team because they don't have that much money. They're obviously the Dodgers and they can pay whatever,

but they don't have a crazy amount of money. Right. So they're looking for investors. And a lot of what people are saying is that the investors don't, if they go to the luxury tax, investors don't want to buy into a team that has to give money back. And the Dodgers have really worked hard to be under that luxury tax. Like that has been an organizational approach to try and find ways to get back to that level. Yes.

approach to try and find ways to get back to that level. Yes. And another thing, Bryce Harper. Now, I want everyone to really take this very seriously. So hold on, everyone. Stop what you're doing. No messing around on computers while you're listening. No watching TV.

No, no. Just listen. Pull over to the side of the road. Yeah. Don't drive. Don't drive. I like that. If you're walking your dog, just stop.

Yes. Do not kick your dog. Let your dog yank on the leash and just chill. Bryce Harper is not going to the Cubs. Can we stop with this freaking Cubs thing? So I posted last week. I posted what Heyman said on WFAN. And all these Cubs fans were like, Theo's going to do it.

He is not going to the Cubs. They cannot afford him. They just paid Kendall Graveman $525K. That's how much money they have. They have no money left. Kendall Graveman. Unless someone takes a Hayward contract, which who is taking a Hayward contract? Not only, listen, I have said this many times.

Theo Epstein is a freaking fraud. Oh, my God. It's such a bad take. He is one of the worst free agent guys out there. Anyway, so he's not going to the Cubs. I agree with that. Listen, they have a huge lesser contract, a huge Hayward contract, a Tyler Chatwood contract. A Udarvish contract.

Udarvish contract. They do not, and they have to pay Chris Bryant, who already turned down a $200 million contract offer. They're going to have to pay Rizzo. There's just no path. Javier Baez. Unless they trade Chris. They're going to have to pay Baez.

Unless they trade Chris Bryant. Baez, a.k.a. the guy who was second in the MVP voting last year. Right. There is just no path to this happening. Unless they want to go, unless they want to payroll over $250 million. And then you're just

getting murdered and they don't have that money. They don't have that money. So like, enough with the Cubs thing. It doesn't make any sense. Like, I understand, like,

unless he's taking a, again, there is no scenario where Bryce Harper is taking like a five-year contract worth $200 million. Like, no chance. He's not doing that. He wants a taking a five-year contract worth $200 million. No chance.

He's not doing that. He wants an eight- to ten-year contract worth more than Giancarlo Stanton's contract. He is not leaving this free agency without a bigger contract than Giancarlo Stanton. And the Machado part of it matters too. Those guys are... Yeah, but he's just not going to get it. Oh, I agree with you. I'm just saying the fact that Machado is out there, that is

just one more reason Harper's not going to let Machado go and get 10-year $350 and sign a five-year $200 million contract. But I could see, for as much as I don't think Harper takes less money, I could see Machado taking less money to go to the Yankees. Oh, yeah, I think like somewhat less money. I mean, we're talking, again, and you get into a situation with the union and whatnot. Let's say the Yankees offers $250,000 and the Phillies offer $300,000. Could you see him leaving $50 million on the table?

No. I could see him leaving $50 million. I could see him leaving $20,000, $25,000, something like that. But $50,000 is a lot. I mean, that's a lot of money. I know. And again, for the union. And I go back to the CeCe Sabathia, to the Yankees deal.

After he was a free agent, after that year with the Brewers, we all remember Shane Victorino, just saying. Slay the Goliath. Just saying. He didn't want to go to New York. He made it very publicly clear. CeCe said, I don't want to play in New York. The Yankees offered him $60 million more than the next highest offer.

And the players union said, hey, guess what, bro? You're going to New York. The Yankees offered him $60 million more than the next highest offer, and the Players Union said, hey, guess what, bro? You're going to New York. I don't care what you want. You're part of this union. You're going to New York. You're setting a precedent for our players. And the A-Rod contract, same thing.

Same thing. But he was giving money back. And we are talking about maybe the strongest union in America. That is how strong the Players Union is. Besides WIPA's union. Well, of course. It's the SAG-AFTRA. By the way, I got my first SAG-AFTRA screener. Oh, how strong the players union is. Besides WIP's union. Well, of course. It's the SAG-AFTRA. By the way, I got my first SAG-AFTRA screener. Oh, you got the movie?

Boom! Boom! Can't wait to watch The Wife with Glenn Close. I don't know, really. But I'm excited about the screener thing. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Back to Joel Sherman. I also like, hours after the Sherman Beast comes out, Tom Verducci goes on the MLB Network and says,

I think Harper's going to Philly. It just, and we've heard so many different things here, so to kind of re-rack this, and then we'll get into the guy we don't want, please, no, no, don't do it, Phillies. Don't do it. Are we still on the same page here? We still think it's Harper?

Yeah, so I was going gonna wrap up my thing like i think the only two realistic options for bryce harper are the white socks and the phillies i just think that's it and i or or and i agree with you that he's not going to but like theoretically if he wanted to do if he wanted to like i wouldn't like if the dodgers offered him five years 240 or something like could you offer him 50 million dollars a year on a shorter contract or $45 million a year? I mean, it's crazy. But that's the type of number I feel like it would have to be.

And I don't think they will. The Dodgers are too prudent. Don't think they will. Yeah. I think this is probably just BS even talking about it. And they don't really need him. Like I said, they still have four good outfielders left on the roster after they traded two away.

Yeah. That'd be a pretty lefty, heavy lineup. It already is. I mean, you still have four good outfielders left on the roster after they traded two away. Yeah. That'd be a pretty lefty heavy lineup. It already is. I mean, you add him in there. So, speaking of lefties coming up in a minute. Stop. Go ahead. I could see.

I still think it's White Sox, Phillies for Harper. And I think Machado's coming here unless he takes less money to go to the Yankees. I could see him taking less money to go to the Yankees. I could see him taking $50 million less to go to the Yankees. I could see him taking less money to go to the Yankees. I could see him taking $50 million less to go to the Yankees. Philly's, how about this? Can we just shove it in everyone's faces and sign both of them? After this whole offseason of like this, that, how about just give them both like $350 and give one $400 and let's say, let's freaking roll.

Yeah, I feel like everything right now is just posturing. I mean, the whole Sherman thing to me was like, hey, no one wants to play in Philadelphia, so you're going to have to give us more money if you want us to. Philadelphia is basically Siberia. Can't leave my player out there in the middle of nowhere.

It's so annoying. It's so annoying. It's demeaning, is what it is. Philadelphia, as a Phillies, as a baseball city, and as a freaking top five market in this country, like, get the F out of here. I know. Like, enough of this BS.

I know. He's got great cheesesteaks. He's got great food. We won't throw snowballs at you. I promise. All right, Jack. Yes. We got to do it.

I know. Rumors. We got to talk about them. They're out there. All right. So Jack and I We got to do it. I know. Rumors. We got to talk about them. They're out there. All right. So Jack and I made a point on our last show, and I just want to double down on it quickly before we talk about this guy. I don't care if you're left-handed or right-handed.

I just want you to sign a good picture, Phillies. Okay? I get it for the bullpen. But with starters, you don't have to sign a lefty you don't have to it is not a prerequisite you can have right handed starters as long as they're good alright Dallas Keuchel Jack just go

they don't want to go five years in Dallas Keuchel please don't oh my god of course not are you out of your minds yeah Dallas Keuchel is just is just not the guy. And, like, I just don't get it. Like, we just went through the Arrieta thing last year.

Did we not? Did we not go through the Arrieta thing last year? We did. Now, here's what I will say. If they sign Dallas Keuchel, he will be better than Arrieta. I trust him. Oh, absolutely. I still think he has a role.

Look, and he'll age bet i mean there's a guy who's his velocity fastball average festival velocity actually increased slightly from 89 to 90 last year but like on ruiz this is someone who is not like when we're talking about arietta you know you look at a guy who was throwing in the mid 90s and now throwing in the low 90s and that's a massive difference in what that guy can do he relied on it keitel not necessarily someone who relies on the velocity in the same way. So it is something where those type of guys generally age better. So here's my official position on Dallas Keuchel.

Don't do it. At this point, he is a guy that is a good pitcher that's going to eat a ton of innings for you. He can be a solid four. He'll be a solid four on a good rotation. He could be a three. I'm talking about on a good rotation. Sure. A solid three, four on a good rotation. I love that there's

a guy who won the Cy Young three years ago. I know. Arrieta won it three years ago. That's a great point. I do not get it. You're right. I'm trying to give Dallas Keuchel some due where I probably just shouldn't. He allowed the most hits in baseball last year. Did he really? The most? Yeah, he allowed the most hits in baseball last year. Did he really? The most?

Yeah, he had 211 hits against him last year. But he did start the most games. He started 34 games last year. So listen, at this point, Dallas Keuchel, he struck out 6.7 guys per nine. I mean, that's so bad. I mean, no joke. So annoying. Jack couldn't get

close to that. Listen, I, well, obviously. Dallas Keuchel is just like, he had an ERA plus of 108. Like, he's just, listen, I think Dallas Keuchel. Is fine. He's fine. And listen, but if you're going to sign him, you better get some good infield defense. That's absolutely true, too.

And the other thing, too, is like, it's just, it all comes down to years of money, right? Like, if the market bears out and and everyone feels the same way about dallas keitel and there's not a team that really wants him and you don't have to go crazy sure i'm totally fine with you bringing dallas keitel and he's fine he's a fine pitcher he's better than you know whoever your five is whether you want to say it's velasquez i'd rather have dallas keitel on my rotation um i feel like everyone's like what you wouldn't even take him for a dollar? That's not the point.

That's not what we're saying. I like him more than Vince. Look, four years, 60? Sure, bring him in. That's fine. It's not great. I wouldn't be super excited about it, but that's my limit right there.

Four years, 60. He's going to get more than that, I think. I think so, too. And that's my limit. I'm talking like 15 million euros. I don't want to pay more than that for Dallas Keiko, but that's the level where I think, okay, if you had to do it four years, isn't that many? Okay.

Again, three years, I'd probably give him three for 60 than I would four for 60, if you know what I mean. So why I don't love him is that I think 88 eventually gets caught up to. I mean, look at Kyle Hendricks the last couple years. 90 last year. I don't care. Give him his dupe. In my mind, he's always 88. He doesn't strike anyone out.

And now he's coming to Citizens Bank Park, which would not play well. If they do change the strike zone, like if they ever raise the strike zone to above the knees, Dallas Keuchel's screwed. Oh, absolutely. I was watching some Keuchel the other day.

And he's got balls. Everything's right at the knees, which is good. It's good. It's smart. Whatever. I just don't trust guys that throw as soft as he does. It doesn't strike anyone out.

I agree with you. To just age well, especially in this day and age. And especially guys that rely on elite control. Because as soon as the control goes for Dallas Keuchel, it's game over. control because as soon as the control goes or Dallas Keuchel it's game over well and also as soon as as soon as like as soon as the velocity dips to a certain level he'll become eminently hittable it can be an overnight type of thing where the difference between 90 and 88 or 87 like you said is like everything yep and and again it's all about change of speeds I think Tom Glavin stands out to me as one of the best to ever completely change the way he pitched based on velocity.

Basically, he's like, all right, I can't throw hard anymore, so my curveball is going to be 65 instead of 75 and stuff like that. And really mess with the speeds and changing of speeds. And that's the best you can hope for. And that was Tom Glavin at the end of a long, great career. I worry that that's the best you're going to get from Keuchel in a couple years, that type of pitcher, and that's the best case scenario if he can figure out how to pitch that way, but once that velocity

goes, especially on some of those secondary pitches, it's going to get ugly. So if they want to sign him to be an innings eater, pitch to a three, between 3-5 and 4, the National League, I could see him in a 3-3, 3-4, somewhere in that range. But mid-3s, let's say.

Right. It wouldn't be a disaster signing. I just think there's a— It'd be better than Arietta signing. It'd be better than Arietta. Listen, if they didn't sign Arietta last season, I'd be much more in on Keiko. Me too, because it's a risk you feel a lot better taking. God damn it.

Why did he sign Arietta? I don't know, man. It's such a— And again, at the time, we were all right with it because— We were more excited, but we knew. It was just like, hey, the Phillies did something. This is fun. And the market, they waited out the market and all that.

Look, Jake Arrieta wanted a Udarvish contract. We could be hooked on for five years, 120 or something on that guy. It could have been worse. One GM would do that. Not my GM. Oh, God. Killing me. Hold on.

I'm just saying that one day you're going to be like, Jack, you were right. No. You know why? Theo doesn't have it. Because one day will never happen where he didn't end 200 years of frustration. It makes you so mad. Because it's the best take. It might be my best take. I mad. It's the greatest. Because it's like. That's because it's the best. I genuinely think it's the greatest.

Yeah. It's yeah. I think it might be genuinely the greatest accomplishment in my lifetime as a sportsman. Wait till he takes over US soccer. Unless Nick Foles wins the Super Bowl again this year. Like that'll be Epsteinian type of level. Don't ruin my day. I mean, greatest Eagles quarterback of all time.

I'm just saying. No, I'm not. I'm just saying. You're so annoying. I mean, you know. So, so, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. You're so annoying. I mean, you know. So, Keichel. How's everyone doing? Keichel, four years, 60, whatever.

Sure. I'm just saying, there's a buyer beware with him, but he's better than Arrieta. Why'd you sign Arrieta? Why'd you sign Arrieta, Matt? All right. So, what else should we talk about here? So, reliever market. We're getting into questions in a sec.

Real quick with the relievers. Last time we talked, we were like, just sign Andrew Miller already. I guess the St. Louis Cardinals listened to the IHOPES podcast because they just signed Andrew Miller already. Right. And they went two years, $24 million. Nice deal. Really nice deal.

I would have taken- In a second. I would have given him two years, $30. Like, just whatever. It's a two-year deal. This guy's got talent. Like, what are we doing here? Yeah.

What are we doing here? Why did he go to St. Louis for 24? So, I mean, like, obviously he went there for the money. The Phillies didn't offer that. And it feels like they're getting... That's my point. Why? They're getting conservative with their money.

And listen, if they think the knees are bad and he's not going to be the same guy... It's a very fair point. He had a 5 ERA in September. You've got to trust your read on a guy. Right. Perfectly fine. All right. I'm going to say it.

You should have seen the smirk that Jack just got there. I'm going to say it. Go ahead. Mike Miner would be better than him in the bullpen. Wow. I'm just saying he'd be better than him in the bullpen. He wouldn't be better than Andrew Miller, but he could be. Last year, I had Mike Miner on my fantasy team. You gave me so much crap for it.

You're like, why would you ever have Mike Miner on your team? And now you're coming around a little bit. Why do you? I don't even remember talking to you about Mike Miner. I think you make up things I say about you. He was on my fantasy team last year. I'm just saying that. In the league that we are in together. Yeah, I don't like that league.

Anyway. Too involved. He doesn't like auctions. It makes me think too much. Oh, my God. What the baseball guy has to think about baseball too much. This is the guy who watches Bryce Harper highlights for fun every day. You can't focus on baseball?

Sorry. Can I please talk about Mike Miner? Anyway, so two years ago in the bullpen for the Royals. He was outstanding. 2-5-5 ERA, struck out 10.2 per nine. Outstanding. And he's a lefty. If they trade for Mike Miner and put him back in the bullpen,

I would argue that that would be a better move than signing Andrew Miller. Again, dependent upon what it takes to trade for Mike Miller. But they would be the same kind of guy that can come in any inning, get you out of whatever. Well, I think actually Miner a little more versatile at this point in their career in the sense that Miner could give you three innings if you needed it. Miner could give you a longer outing. I got to be honest.

The more I think about Mike Miner, the more in I am. I like Mike Miner. I don't have a problem with it. It just depends on what you give up for him. If they give up Cole Irvin and something else, some lower level. Some B-level prospect or even like a Gamboa alone or something like that. Sure. I'm okay with that.

And his last 14 starts last year or 17 starts. He had to get 3-2. He was really good over the second half of the season, really. Yeah. So his first two months were bad. I think Mike Miner is a very shrewd, under-the-radar trade if the Phillies pull it off. Yeah. And I think he fits what they like with versatility at all spots.

For some reason, he had a 3-8 war last year, which is higher than Dallas Keuchel's. Wow. Yeah. That is shocking. I know. I mean, baseball reference war is about as... I just...

No one really knows. It's not a great stat. I like war as a conceptual stat. Well, I like war for position players. I like war for position players. And I think that there's just no better way to really encompass everything a guy does. But man, there's some screwy stuff in really encompass everything a guy does but man there's

some screwy stuff in there especially from the defensive perspective there's some real screwy stuff that is a tangent that we don't need to get into Britton still out there I know there's been a lot of talk with him going back to the Yankees potentially again down to us or the Yankees

just sign Zach Britton, just sign him, he's closed before he gives you that kind of angle as well. If you're going to sign a lefty, like I know, trade for Mike Meyer, that's fine too. I'd like both guys. Well, they're different. That's my point. I'd like both guys. One guy can close for me. One guy can be my lefty everywhere. Yeah, so I

want them to sign Britton. First off, I think Britton costs less than Kimbrell. I don't even think it's the same hemisphere. Don't sign Craig Kimbrell for what he's going to cost. Just don't do it. Kimbrell would be a nightmare. For as much as I don't want Dallas Keuchel, I want Craig Kimbrell less.

Craig Kimbrell was bad at the end of last year. Dude, the World Series was like... It was a heart attack. It was a heart attack. It was terrifying. I was rooting against them, so it didn't really matter. But if I were a Red Sox fan, I would have been terrified watching that guy pitch for me in the playoffs in the world and i feel like people just aren't looking at what he did like and i people just hear craig

kimbrough right and first of all his fastball velocity was down his k per nine was down he's walking more guys than ever um hold on i want to i want to make sure i have this stat right because it's it's terrifying unless they're fernando rodney like when do those guys end up just continually doing what they do and into their 40s and and late 30s and all that like it just it's so rare that these guys kind of last and obviously mariano rivera what but hall of fame closer right but here's the difference with both of those guys is that rivera was 92 exactly they're not max velocity guys like kiml's a max velocity guy. That's going to wear your arm out. And he's a massive slider guy.

A hard, hard. Hard slider, yes. So in the last two months of last season, heading into the playoffs, he had a 4.15 ERA. Not great. That's not great. He's looking at a five-year deal, six-year deal. People were saying it's outlandish.

It's absolutely crazy. I mean, so his strikeouts per nine dropped by three points last year, and his walks went up by three. Whoa, whoa, whoa. So strikeout per nine. I'm going to drop the actual number. All right, so strikeout per nine in 2017 was 16.4. Which is outstanding.

2018 went to 13.9. Which is still a really nice number, but a significant drop. Walks per nine in 2017, 1.8, up to 4.5 last year okay what a season he had two years ago oh it's unbelievable oh my god 16 4 and a 1.8 like yeah what he had a 1 he had a 1.43 what i mean that is unhittable type stuff uh but yeah i mean the numbers that four and a half walks per nine is is way too many for a guy like that and the year before that he had 5.1 yeah well he was a terrible the year before it was like that's the thing is if guy like that. And the year before that, he had 5.1. Well, he was terrible the year before. That's the thing is, if you step back and forget the year he had two years ago

and look at two of the last three, it would have been bad seasons for Craig Kimbrell. Right, so if you gave him a five-year contract, it would be a disaster. We've talked about Britton a lot in the sense that, you know, obviously he's coming off the Achilles. He wasn't where he was velocity-wise, but by the end of last season, the Yankees trusted him. He was back at the 96. On the month of September, he did not allow a run.

Pitched well in the postseason. He's going to cost less than Craig Kimbrell. And the most underrated and most important part of all this is that it makes Sir Anthony back to his fireman role. And he does not have to be this shutdown guy in the end of the game. So if you add in Britton, you let Sir Anthony Rome, you let Mike Miner Rome,

that's two very valuable pen pieces. You see what you have in Nischek and Hunter if you want to trade one of those guys for something else. Bye, Pat. Yeah, be a real shame. See you, buddy. You will not be missed.

Kimbrough will be a nightmare. Britton would be fine. I think Britton gets like 445. I don't know if it's that much. I was thinking like 3 for 30, but it could be. I'd sign him for 3 for 30. In a heartbeat. I mean, look, if Miller gets 2 for 24,

I don't think Britton gets that much more. I think he gets more. He's a little younger. He doesn't have the same type of knee issues and all that. I think he'll get more, but I don't know ifon gets that much more. I think he gets more. He's a little younger. He doesn't have the same type of knee issues and all that. I think he'll get more, but I don't know if it's that much more, and I don't know if it's more on an AAV basis. One other name, and I know we've talked mostly lefties, but you brought up Kimbrell.

I would so much rather them sign David Robertson than sign Craig Kimbrell. Robertson, older, two-year deal, something like that, but representing himself, do you feel like you should be able to take advantage of? Yeah. I mean, a guy like older two-year deal, something like that, but representing himself, do you feel like you should be able to take advantage of? Yeah. I mean, a guy like that, there are names out there that if they're going to go out and Otavino.

Otavino, exactly. Just don't give Craig Kimbrell lots of years and lots of money. Don't do it, please. Yeah, especially for a closer. And especially for, again, there's a difference between power closers and closers. Absolutely. There's a difference between power closers and closers. Jansen's another guy who cutters, cutters, cutters,

and a big sweeping curveball. He's going to age well. Could do it forever. I would trust him to age well. You trust Hoffman. You trust Rivera. You do not trust guys like Craig Kimbrell. Yeah, Hoffman was a change-up guy.

Absolutely. You don't trust guys like Craig Kimbrell that throw 95 and have a wicked slider. And have a hard slider. I agree with you. Never once has that guy aged well. Never once in the history of the sport, that guy has never aged well. Yeah. All right. Stay away.

Any other thoughts before we dive into the rest? Yes. I think we have to talk about Jason O'Chart. I thought we were going to save it for the end, but sure. Just dive in. When you're in love, you're in love, and you can't hide it. It's okay. I'm talking about Jack.

I'm in love with Jason O'Chart. I have something else for the end that i want to say so so so give your little uh your ode to jason so jason ochart i would argue was the second biggest free free agency offseason move the phillies made the season behind getting a harper machado i think i think jason ochartart is that important. Going from Harper Machado, one. Jason Ochart, two. Jason Ochart is... Aino Saris wrote about this about two weeks ago. Talked about how player development is the Wild West

and it's the single most important part of building a modern baseball team. No question. It should be. You need good player development. And so what the Phillies are doing right now is that they are starting a top-down approach. So obviously last year was the first year they implemented John May Lee's system and that kind of hitting philosophy. And in the players they brought in this offseason, we've already seen that change a little bit, which is good, whatever. But what they're doing is that they're going to each level of the minor leagues and they're implementing their offensive approach

so that guys in rookie ball and single A, double A, triple A all understand that they're all on this one certain path. Which is great. Which is good. Organizational philosophy filtered from the top down is a great thing. That is what smart organizations do. Exactly. So by doing that, every level they raise, all the players know the plan, whatever.

What Jason Ochard has done at driveline is he has basically changed hitting approaches for the better. He's obsessed with swing path. He's obsessed with slug potential and maximizing a guy's like maximizing a guy's potential basically like he just is so good at at figuring out what he studied kinetics or whatever like all that stuff all the all the he's just crazy smart when it comes to hitting um and it's one of those signings that's going to be under the radar that he's going to be brought in and you might see legitimate breakouts. Like he, it's,

it, it maximizes their chance to get the best out of their minor league talent, basically, which is, I mean, like a no brainer of an idea, you know, to go in and find someone who's going to help you with this,

especially someone as, as heralded at it. Like he's just, what he's done at driveline is he's taken average hitters and turned them into really, really good hitters. His philosophy is the same kind of philosophy that led to Max Muncy, Justin Turner. JD Martinez.

I mean, a lot of these types of guys. It's not all launch angle. It's not all maximizing launch angle and figuring out that stuff. Which I'm sure a lot of Phillies fans will be happy to hear. Right, right, right. But it's finding the best possible swing path for each hitter. And that's what he was obsessed with at driveline. And I just think that it's going to maximize and max out the talent

that you have in the minor leagues. And I think it's going to do wonders for guys like Adam Haseley. Because Adam Haseley, we talked about last week, not a big load guy he needs more to load right and he's got his funky little leg kick in the front um so i just think it's gonna it's gonna help maximize adam hazley get the most out of him because adam hazley right now is a guy who is elite uh uh bat to ball skills i mean he batted over 300 last year in both levels, in AA and AAA, or single-A and AA. So I think he's going to maximize that.

Hopefully, he gets some added power out of him. Hopefully, it helps Mickey Moniak build off what he did at the end of last season. And the one guy who I'm probably the most excited about outside of Haseley is Luis Garcia, their 17-year-old or 18-year-old shortstop prospect who just burst onto the scene last year like crazy good.

They did not expect him to bat over 300. He did to go along with his elite glove. Luis Garcia is a guy when you watch him, he kind of moves around a lot and it feels like there's a lot of wasted movements. I think O-Tron's going to cut out the wasted movements and he's going to really reach his Francisco Lindor talent level.

Oh, wow. Look at that. I don't know if he's going to be. He's going to be one of the best players in baseball. When I was watching him, I was seeing shades of Francisco Lindor. I mean, look. Keith Law once described watching Francisco Lindor take fielding practice as baseball porn.

I thought that was a really good phrase for it. He's so slick out there. Yeah. So I, I, I'm very excited. It's something that a, it is something that a forward thinking franchise does.

And it's something that a smart modern day baseball franchise does. And the fact that the Phillies were the one that did it, and they were the ones that got the guy who I think is the best, the best amateur hitting coach in the country. It was, I they were the ones that got the guy who I think is the best amateur hitting coach in the country. I was floored. I was so happy. Love letters being written on Twitter. So anyone out there, if you know Jason O'Chart,

if you want to tweet at Jason O'Chart, tell him that if he comes on the High Hopes pod, I promise to keep Jack from trying to make him fall in love with him any more than he already has. I will rein Jack in, but we'd love to to have ochart on this i'm just i'm just happy that like i'm i'm more for as excited as i am happy let's be real for as excited as i am effusive for as excited as i am i got texts like just just just jason ochart yeah no because the love and effusiveness

is it has to be noted for as excited as I am about him being the guy, I'm just excited that the Phillies thought this way. And I think that it's ultimately going to pay a bunch of dividends down the road. All right, we got some questions, Jack? Yes, yes, yes. Mailbag! Mailbag. All right, we should get a lot.

Great. Good thing we waited until 42 minutes into the pod or in our 40 minutes into the pod to do it. From Johnny Heller, if Machado and Harper both go elsewhere, what moves can the Phillies make to still put together a postseason caliber roster in 2019? That's a great question. Look, I think if you beef up the bullpen and you add another starting pitcher,

whether through trade or whatever, whether it's a Kluber, a Bumgarner, one of the guys we've talked about, I think they're close to a playoff contender there. I mean, like, look already with the changes they made, you'd like to see them add another bat. They're going to need to add another bat one way or another, whether it's a big name or not. But I think they're on the fringe of playoff contention there. I think they're as good as the Nationals.

I don't think they're quite at the Braves, but, you know, we could easily see Braves take a step back, young players regress a little bit, all that. I think they're kind of close to being that type of thing already, regardless of the Harper Machado of it all, but it's a great question, and I think ultimately they're not

going to be the team they could be if they don't add one of these big guys. Yeah, I wonder if they strike out on these guys, if they go for a big... Like a Pollock or someone like that and try and... Well, I'm talking like a trade. Try and make a... Look, I think they're probably looking into all that. That just made me think that Paul Goldschmidt

got traded to the Cardinals. It's so annoying. I'm so annoyed by that. He's such a classic Cardinal. Jack Fritz tweeted that out. Paul Goldschmidt feels like a Cardinal. And then a week later, it happens. But yeah, I'm with you.

They need to do something like that. They need to go get somebody who can make a difference, whether it's your trade or signing. Yeah. I think right now they're a fringe playoff team. Yeah, that's where I think they're at. And maybe if they trade for one more starter, get one of the last guys to the pen,

one of those guys. Yeah, and add some sort of bat that can help, whatever it is. And Britain. Yeah. Beef up the pen, add a starter, a bat, they're a playoff contender. Yeah, and a lot of people are like, well, what about Pollock and these guys? My problem with going after a Pollock, going after whoever's still out there,

is that it moves the needle. I don't want a move that's going to move the needle for just next season. I don't care about next season. I know what you mean. For as much as I obviously care about next season. You're thinking years past that. Yeah, I want a guy that's going to move the needle for just next season. I don't care about next season. I know what you mean. For as much as I obviously care about next season. You're thinking years past that. Yeah, I want a guy that can... I like AJ Pollock more than you. I love AJ Pollock. He's a great,

he's a really fun player, man. I'm a big AJ Pollock fan, but I know what you're saying and I agree with you conceptually. I love AJ Pollock. I am worried that he's not going to ever stay healthy. Alright, from Matt Naskow. That's a little longer one. Jack and James, since I know you guys like talking roster scenarios, so here's

an idea for you. This is at the Phillies' San Machado. They go to the Pirates and try to acquire Cervelli and Corey Dickerson. Dickerson would become your left fielder and Cervelli would be your backup catcher with Jorge Alfaro. The key would be Dickerson, who had a solid year

offensively and had a career best year defensively reports where they're listening to they're listening but trying to compete this year both guys are on the last year of the respective deals trade them altair morgan and spencer howard maybe another prospect they're reportedly looking for another left-handed pitcher for their bullpen and altair has control and upside while howard is a future prospect. Then go to Cleveland and trade for Kluber, package Medina or Sixto, Williams, Eflin, and other prospects. This is way too much going on here. Way too much going on here.

So the team would look like Alfaro, Hoskins, Hernandez, Segura, Machado, Dickerson, Herrera, McCutcheon, with Cervelli, Quinn, Kingery on the bench, Nola, Kluber, Arrieta, Pavetta, Velasquez. We'd really enjoy hearing about this. I mean, look, sure. It sounds fun. There's a lot to take in there. I don't want to trade Spencer Howard for one year.

I was just about to say that my biggest issue with that trade is Spencer Howard. With that whole, all he talked about. Like 6-0 for Kluber, sure. I can get there, all that kind of stuff. I'm not trading Spencer Howard to the Pirates for Covelli alone. I don't think Spencer Howard alone for Dickerson and Cervelli does it for me personally. That's a risk. I don't think those guys move the needle.

Corey Dickerson, a really nice player. He was DFA'd last year by the Rays. And that was a big mistake. Well, that's because the Rays are. Big mistake by the Rays. I agree. But Corey Dickerson is not a game-changing player. He's a really nice player.

Cervelli, not a game-changing player. A nice player. And again, I- And Spencer Howard, as you've talked about, shooting up your list of guys who you don't want to move unless it's the right team. I care about next season, but I

want guys who are going to be a part of my future core. A one-year guy doesn't make any sense. From John Middleton's bank account at The Process 10, as of now, what are your predictions for where Harper and Machado sign and for how much? Harper here, Machado Yankees. I will say Harper, I'm going to say 10 years, $400 million.

I think it's one of those things where it gets to the point where it's just like, screw it, here's your money, and they're going to take what they can get. And I think Machado, I think you're right. I think he takes a little less. I think it's a significant gap. I think Machado's $8,300, something like that maybe, somewhere in that general range. Okay.

I'll say Machado to the Yankees for $8,250, and Harper here 10 years for $25. Fair. So we're in the same range. From at Chatter John, Franco rumors have been dead silent this winter. Do you think he's a non-Machado? Do you think he's in the non-Machado Phillies plans? I sure hope

so. No. Yeah, I think Franco's gone. I think he's gone. Whether it's this offseason, whether it's before the deadline, whether it's whatever, I don't think Franco's a long-term answer here. Another Franco-related question. If they don't get Machado, oh, from Steve, if they don't get Machado... Oh, from Steve. If they don't get Machado, do you agree that

they should give Franco one more year, then go for Arenado next offseason? Moustakas does nothing for me, and I don't see anyone else worthwhile. I think everyone knows where I stand on this one. Whatever. Moustakas is better than Franco. There's no question. He's a better player than Mikel Franco.

Just to get out in front of this, we all want Nolan Arenado. That sounds awesome, but that's a year away. We don't know if Arenado might accept an extension from the Rockies. He's considered it. They've done a lot to try and build around him. They went to the playoffs last year. Nolan Arenado as an option for next year

is so far from locked in stone or even a realistic option. Like, don't go there yet. Yeah, it's too early. It's tough. And again, if I had to bet right now, I would bet he stays in Colorado. That's what I would bet. I would too. I would too.

But they do have Brandon Rodgers, Trevor Story. They've got some options down the road. They gave Blackman that huge deal. Yes, they did. But Arenado has a chance to go down as the best player in franchise history. They've got some options down the road. They gave Blackman that huge deal. Yes, they did. Arenado has a chance to go down as the best player in franchise history. He is their next Todd Helton. That's the way they view him as that next guy who will be there for his career.

So they will do whatever they can to make that happen. But who knows? Look, if he hits the market, he's another guy who could get $400 million. From Joe Cornick, what grade do you give the Phillies offseason so far? I'm at a D. Could get to a C with an addition of a starter and a left-handed reliever, but can't get above a B- without Harper or Machado, barring a blockbuster trade. We didn't see that.

I'm not big on grading mid. I'd give them an incomplete. I can't. A C, I guess, right now. But I don't know. Look, if they do what we did, what we said, and they don't get Harper. Look, if they don't get Harper or Machado, it's a failure in one sense, no matter what. But I don't know.

I'm going to say incomplete. Yeah, I would say right now they're a better team. It's still incomplete. I would give them a C+. Okay. Because I like the moves they made so far. I like the moves they made so far i like the moves they made so far um it's not enough from at von kramer do you think in any way that capler is a factor in harper and machado not wanting to come no no i first of all i don't think they don't want to

come here because like and second of all to think that Kapler, like, no. Strong, hard, definitive no on that question. Yeah, and honestly, if you're signing a 10-year contract, there's probably a 0% chance that Kapler lasts that long. Yeah, and guys don't go places because of managers. That's just not what happens in baseball. It just isn't, and they don't not go places because of managers. And again, just because you don't like Gabe Kapler doesn't mean that baseball players don't like Gabe Kapler okay yeah like sorry um

from Ethan Witt at Ethan Witt um Ethan underscore Witt assuming the top four of the rotation remains Nola, Arrieta, Pavetta, Velasquez would you rather the fifth spot be Eflin or an opener? Look, I think for some reason, Eflin seems to have more value to major league franchises than, than you or I have equated on him. So I think Zach Eflin as an asset is worth starting for that specific reason. But from a conceptual philosophical standpoint, I love the opener and I have no problem if they just want to do it. Oh, come on. You're not an opener guy. no problem if phillies want to do it oh come on you're not an opener guy it works what do you want to do i know it works it works who

cares i want to win baseball games i don't care you're a pitcher it's a different thing i want to win baseball games the tampa bay rays won like 17 games over 500 last year 18 games over 500 with a roster one-tenth as good as the phillies and the phillies didn't have a great roster so i'm all in for the opener if they want to do it. I just don't think that's what they're going to do. But I don't hate the idea at all. Yeah, I just don't think the opener. I would probably put, for what it's worth,

I think Eflin would be ahead of Velasquez in the Phillies' minds in terms of who they value as a starting pitcher, too. Agreed. For what it's worth. All right, last one here from Charlie Capelli. Charlie. Can you explain why the Phil strategy of seeing max number of pitches is good i get an old mlb it was all about getting starters out of the game but today aren't bullpen pitchers throwing better than a lot of starters wouldn't it be better to try and shell soft throwing starters before they're out of the

game it seems like their strategy is based on a false assumption that starters are better than relievers. That was true even five years ago, but is it true today? I don't want to work counts and get starters out of the game. I want to shell starters while they're in the game. Also, this question is crap. Ignore it. I didn't ignore it.

I actually think it's a really good question. It's something you and I have talked about a lot on this show in the past. We were the first podcast to bring up the Phillies offensive approach. I'm pretty sure we were. Look, yeah, I would love to see. I think that approaches should be more pitcher-specific, more situation-specific, and all that type of stuff. I know Jack loved watching the Red Sox just go out and freaking hit the baseball and get hits and run around the bases.

I think philosophically speaking, it's a fascinating question. I certainly agree with the concept that the whole getting to the bullpen thing isn't what it used to be. But you also have to think about it in the grind of it all. In a three-game series, a four-game series, deep into August, into July, all that type of stuff. Yeah, guys are wearing down. And having a reliever go three days in a row or having this or that,

there are advantages to it. It's not like there's no advantage to seeing pitches and stuff but i do agree that i think there there could be a way to be more selective about it based on the matchups and all that now i will say that it feels like a regular season strategy like it feels like a good regular season solid strategy because um like you said you're you're worried about you know bullpen guys in the first game you don't want to blow your bullpen the first game of a three or four game series so but i will say when it comes to the playoffs i think it does hinder you because you can see like i feel like the dodgers have the same approach right um but what we saw in the world series was that the red sox just said okay we'll throw nathan avaldi and rick porcello at you and they can go multiple innings so it doesn't

even matter so um i think it's a good solid regular season approachnings, so it doesn't even matter. So I think it's a good, solid regular season approach, but I think it doesn't win ultimately. And the Phillies last year, they did this. They tried to do it, and it was like the Dodgers light, Yankees light, all that stuff. The guys they've added so far this offseason are guys who don't really do that. Yeah, they are guys who are going away from that. So it feels like the Phillies are kind of going away from it,

which is a solid move because I was worried many times I said this. I was worried that they were going to get stuck in this approach that was getting faded out of baseball. Now, I will say Jorge Alfaro was still way low. He was like 404 out of 405 in whiff percentage last year. Always fun stuff. But I agree with you. It's a good question. I thought it was a great question. Alright.

Final thought. Alright. Here we go. The second Jack Fritz take of the show is that I think Nick Pavetta is going to put together a kurt schilling like a philly's kurt schilling like season next year kurt schilling were you just trying to find the

take that would be most jack fritz and come with that uh no i was looking at uh so i was watching so i was looking at nick pavetta stats and i was looking at kurt Pavetta's stats, and I was looking at Curt Schilling's stats, and Curt Schilling took until age 30 to put together a similar strikeout-to-walk ratio as Pavetta did last year. So strikeouts per nine last year, Pavetta was 10.3, which is ridiculous, and he only walked 2.8, and it took Schilling until age 30 to get that similar kind of season.

Now, this is all prefaced by saying that Pavetta needs to come into spring training with a third pitch. So whether it's a splitter, whether it's a changeup, I would love for it to be a splitter, whatever. He probably can't throw a splitter because his arm probably can't handle it. But changeup, something, some kind of third pitch. Nick Pavetta will be a very good starter one day. I don't know. I think it's going to be next year. Potentially a Hall of third pitch. Nick Pavetta will be a very good starter one day. I don't know.

I think it's going to be next year. Potentially a Hall of Fame starter. You do not strike out that many and walk that little. You're not a bad pitcher. I agree with you on that. You can't go an entire season with those type of numbers and not have some level of skill. But to be fair, and those numbers are extreme,

but a guy like Jared Eikhoff, what was it? Eight strikeouts to one plus walk. So like there are, you can see examples of it, but 10 and two is ridiculous. Pretty impressive. So Nick Pavetta is going to be good. Nick, we're going to get you on the podcast too. All right.

Rate and review the podcast. Do it for Fritz. It makes him so happy. And then you can, I can get the text from him with your review. And then you can make fun of me in the review. Just be nice to Jack. And everyone, have a happy and healthy and wonderful New Year's. Go out and have fun.

Or like me, stay home with your daughter, newborn daughter, and not do anything fun. But regardless. And Machado's signing after the new year. So we will find out where he's going. We will find out. Maybe, right? He might take the year off. Who knows?

But we'll be back to talk about it. We'll be back in the new year regardless. And obviously if there is emergency reasons. Definitely. Do a freaking emergency pod. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen. We have a question. We'll be right back. is a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is. Another fact. So jump aboard the BIB Express.

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