High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: Klentak Gets Smart

Episode Date: July 31, 2018

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back reacting to the trade deadline. Matt Klentak did well! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. They also talk about Odubel and more! Rate and review on itunes! See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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so your business insurance should be too. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast, a trade deadline special edition. I'm your host, James Seltzer. With me, still reeling from the fact that Kevin Gaussman is a brave, but I think he'll get over it, the one, the only Mr. Jack Fritz. Fritzy, what's up, buddy? I will get over it. I will be fine. I just thought that it would have been a nice little buy low candidate and a nice little buy low. Kevin gosman all the talent in the world uh and i hope he fails

miserably in atlanta i think we all do now we are all uh kevin gosman haters now but i'm with you we talked about that last show and i did think that was a nice buy low i still haven't seen what the braves game up the braves have a very stacked farm system so hopefully they had to give up something good but let's focus on what matters We'll get into some of the other deals a little bit later in the show. Jack, just a wild last week. I don't remember a year in recent memory with as many moves over the week leading up and on the deadline day as every single team in baseball made a deadline deal of one sort or another over the last week, which is insane to think about. But first, let's focus on what matters first. The Phillies, obviously, as Drupal Cabrera comes to town, we talked about that a little bit. But today,

Klentak makes a couple more moves. Aaron Luke, the left-hander, the less exciting of the moves, but still a nice move. We'll get to that. But let's start with the headliner, a move we didn't expect, Jack, because we talked a lot about upgrading the infield, which they did with this dribble with Cabrera, and we'll give some more thoughts on that. We talked about potentially getting an outfielder, a bench guy or a platoon guy, but we did not talk a ton. We mentioned it, but we didn't talk a ton about the possibility

of bringing a catcher in here, Jack. And Wilson Ramos, a outstanding bat. For those who don't know, would have been the all-star game starter for the American League this year if he weren't injured. Batting 297, 14 homers, and 834 OPS. He's been just awesome for a long time.

His issue is health, not hitting. When he is healthy, he is always hit. The issue, again, health, injured right now. Should be back in a couple weeks, Fritz. But on a macro scale, it looks like Jonathan Mayo reporting that the player to be named later, the Phillies, will be giving up not a top 30 player

in their system, which is crazy to think about. What is your take on Wilson Ramos coming to Philadelphia? I'm excited. I have liked Wilson Ramos for a while. I always thought his bat was just sweet. I thought it was just a really clean stroke that plays well no matter how old you get. I think Wilson Ramos is going to rake for a while.

I brought him up two years ago as an idea that I thought the Phillies should explore. And I'm ecstatic he's here now. It means no more Andrew Knapp, which I understand he was hitting better recently. But, listen, Andrew Knapp is what he is at this point and he's a backup catcher right and wilson will bring you uh an upgrade defensively uh not as great of an arm as alfaro but the point is that he knows how to play he's been in in big spots before obviously never got past the first round uh those washington nationals sure love that um but yeah i'm happy i'm really happy i've liked wilson ramos for a while and honestly

i wouldn't hate if they if they signed him after the season to like a two-year a two-year deal i think alfaro is obviously the catcher of the future but um i think ramos can can help bridge the gap to where it's not a complete uh black hole back there and i think ramos is going to be a good player i think he's going to age well. He'll probably get banged up if you sign him to a two-year deal. So that's where Alfaro can take off. And then really, if you sign him to the deal and Alfaro clearly outplays him, then it's just a win-win for both sides.

I wouldn't just move on from Wilson Ramos quickly as offseason because I think he's a top-five catcher in the game. Yeah, from a bat perspective, there's no question he is. Again, you look at some of his seasons. Again, if he's not hurt, he always hits. 2016, the season that stands out the most in 131 games, batted 307 with 22 home runs in 131 games. I mean, the man can hit, and for what it's worth, he's injured this year, and again, you look at the injuries, it is a bit frustrating because he's never played more than that 131 games that season. He played 113 in 2011, 128 in 2015, and then after that a lot of 75, 88-type seasons.

But look, catcher is a position where, especially when they age, you're prone to injury. It's just a little bit tougher position, obviously. But on top of that, some of these injuries have been freak injuries as well the injury that derailed that 2016 season was a broken leg that was out of nowhere so um i feel really good about bringing wilson ramos in here especially when you talk about the fact that he can give up a top 30 prospect you're getting a all-star caliber catcher and like you said look he is not um you know yadi melina behind the plate defensively he's not a a star defensive catcher or anything,

and Jorge certainly has a better arm than him, but Wilson Ramos is a stable defensive catcher. He's someone who's going to come in here with a ton of experience handling staffs, a ton of experience calling games, and he's going to be sound back there. He might not be the best defender on the planet, but he's going to make plays.

We're not going to see the same type of pass ball issues we've seen from these two guys. And again, more than serviceable enough from a defensive end. And again, the bat plays big time at that position. Let's kind of look at how it kind of spans out here. You know, Knapp, obviously the minors. Ramos, when he comes back every day catcher for this team i mean how big a difference you think that makes for the lineup jack well i i think anytime you

can add a guy that's batting between 280 and and 300 with uh with legitimate pop to all fields i think it just changes everything he has good at bats uh professional hitter um and it just makes your lineup deeper and it puts alfaro on the bench and i think alfaro is good but he also has a strikeout rate north of 40 percent it's insane and and and wilson ramos just won't do that so from that standpoint it deepens the lineup and really i i i think clint sack did did really good here in the fact that they missed out on the bats they missed out on the a big like right field bat they missed out on the bats. They missed out on a big right-field bat. They missed out on Adam Jones. Andrew McCutcheon and I had no interest in. And for what it's worth, both those guys didn't ultimately get moved.

Jones using his 10-5 rights not to go anywhere, and McCutcheon, the Giants, just backing off a trade there. Yeah, and I think if you're going to miss out on those guys, getting a bat like Wilson Ramos for almost nothing I think is really a creative and smart way to go about the deadline and i'm impressed that clint sock went this route um i think it makes them better from day one um i i'm very happy and it makes the lineup deeper um if you're gonna miss out on the bats this is this is a good way to do it yeah i think you bring up a great point too that when you look at a lot of the guys

who were ultimately moved sadly other than you than, you know, the Machado thing, none of the positions really line up that well. It's a lot of second basemen who got moved, the Brian Dozers of the world, Jonathan Scope, it looks like might go to the Brewers in a last second trade that has still not been finalized. But, you know, sometimes they get the trade in before the deadline and it leaks out after. But the positions didn't line up as well as you would hope, I thought. I agree. I think it was very clever of Klintak to look around the diamond. And first of all, let's not underrate bringing in Estribul Cabrera

from an offensive perspective. Whatever you want to say about the pass, the dude is a professional hitter and he's having a great, great season. So from a guy who can hit from both sides of the plate, come in and play three positions in the infield, albeit not that well, but from an offensive perspective, absolutely a bonus for them in terms of, you know, getting Kingery on the bench a little bit more, having a guy you can bring in off the bench, you feel better about all that type of stuff. But I think to look around the diamond and say, all right, you know what? Nick Williams is playing really well. And I feel all right with him in right field.

Catcher has been a much bigger offensive hole than we have given it credit for. We've talked a lot about a lot of the other struggles around the field. And I think maybe it's because Alfaro does flash on both sides of the ball. We see that rare athleticism. We see the arm. And then, of course course the absurd power that he displays that you kind of don't pay attention to how much he has struggled from a consistency

perspective, especially like you said, putting the ball in play. So I'm with you, Jack. I think from a macro perspective, looking at going into this trade deadline and missing out on some of the bigger names, Klintak, I thought did a really nice job of filling in at the margins, of finding what this team needed, finding players to fit those holes without giving up anything at all that puts any sort of, you know, hurt on your future, essentially. Jack, I think Klintak, again, I think it's not sexy. And I know there are people out there like Turtle. I'm talking to you, Turtle. People out there who are, oh, they didn't get a star. They should have gone for Harper. They should have got Machado.

Chill out, all right? That was not the position this team was in. They are building for now and for a long, fruitful future. And again, Manny Machado, Bryce Harper, those guys are going to be real legitimate options to come here in the offseason. Jack, I think that Klintak, given the circumstances, did a really nice job on the offensive side of this team. Yeah, I think he found ways to make this

roster deeper and better without hurting the playing time of the young players that are supposed to be the future of this team and supposed to be the pieces of the next core that's going to help us win a World Series. I think if you bring in Wilson Ramos, sure, it's going to send down Andrew Knapp, but I think it's going to make Jorge Alfaro better.

One, because I think it's going to push him and say, hey, you've got some competition here, buddy. We think you're really good, but I think if we look at Jorge Alfaro's counting stats, it paints a much more rosy picture than if you look at the underlying offensive stats. And, like, he has been mostly brutal at the plate. And obviously his stats are, like, okay. But he's been pretty bad. But bringing in Ramos is going to push him to another level.

And I just think from a veteran catcher standpoint, hopefully he can teach Alfaro some of the ways of the craft. But like Estrubal Cabrera, he's raking this year. I know the Phillies don't really care about defense, but I think it builds them a roster that they were trying to build when they broke camp. Guys that can play all over the field and are not locked into a certain position.

And with Kingery's struggles, getting a guy like Estrubel is just going to make this lineup better. Finally, you can kind of look out on the lineup and you can say, all right, here's a tough out. Here's all these switch hitters. So it's hard to match them up late in games. It's fun. And I'm just happy that they didn't suppress the young talent this deadline. Because for as much as we want this team to go for the division and go for a playoff run and go get the stars, whatever,

they're still in the developmental and they're still in the phase of, is this guy going to be a keeper for us? Like, Kingery is still in the evaluative stage, Alfaro is, and to just put those guys on the bench for the rest of the season and not let them try to figure it out, I think is a total mistake because I think they're still in that stage. Neither one of these moves is going to hurt that at all, and I'm glad that they went that route.

I think it's a smart route, and again, they gave up absolutely nothing for these guys. I agree with you to a point on that. I know we kind of argued about the developmental thing versus going for it now. And I think we're both in agreement that as much as we want them to win the World Series this year, that would be amazing, obviously, but we were never planning on this being the year

and we have both had our eyes on the future as well as the now. but we were never planning on this being the year and we have both had our eyes on the future as well as the now having said that i actually believe at this point that for scott kingery in particular i actually think that he might be served by going to the minors for a little bit he's at the point where he is so lost from an offensive perspective and so overmatched at the major league level that i actually think it's one of those situations where sending him down and getting him some AAA confidence, going to bat against those guys that he know he can have success with, and can start to hit some balls and put them in play and have some success, I actually think

could do wonders for his confidence. So I agree with you on a macro scale on the developmental point you made, but I think that Kingery in particular, Jack, I think he needs some time in the minors. I really do. I don't think that, I think we've seen enough right now at this point in his major league development right now where I don't think major league at-bats are helping him as much as they should be

because he has lost all of his confidence in the batter's box. Yeah, I don't hate the idea. I don't hate the idea of setting him down for a little bit and let him get his confidence back and then hopefully bring him back up for the for the playoff run i think that's perfectly fine i think that's perfectly fine um but the fact i i'm just glad that from a macro standpoint that they didn't just just put him on the bench and we're gonna just ride up all these veterans on rental deals and and and stuff, basically. And I 100% agree with you.

Again, I think you made a great point about kind of let's not underrate the Estrubel move as he is someone who really can come in here, A, like you said, is having an outstanding season. When you look at all his numbers across the board, he's having, other than Reese Hoskins, he's having as good a season as any Philadelphia Philly, legitimately, especially when you take the position he plays into account from an offensive perspective. And again, the fact that he's a switch hitter, it's just another little thing that Kapler has to work with. I also like the moves of bringing in Ramos and Cabrera, both

for two perspectives that you hinted at. One, obviously, I think the veteran leadership thing, it matters. Look, we've talked a lot about that, about Arrieta and what he's kind of meant to the younger pitchers. And even if he hasn't had the same success on the Hill that we have hoped for, he has still been beneficial from that perspective. I think both the Struble-Gabrera and Wilson Ramos can be those type of guys. You know, like you said, Ramos hasn't played a ton of playoff baseball, but he's played playoff baseball. The Struble-Gabrera's played playoff baseball. These guys have been in big games before. And on top of that, there are two guys who you alluded to it before when you talk about the 40% strikeout rate with Alfaro.

You talk about Scott Kingery seemingly striking out practically every time he's up at the plate. These are two guys who are going to put the ball in play for you. These are two guys who are going to give you opportunities for success. It's funny, Jack, because you look at this team from a defensive perspective, and if I were going up against the Phillies, I would be telling my hitters, just put the ball in play. Let's not focus on home runs against the Phillies.

Let's focus on putting the ball in play because they struggle from a defensive perspective so much. Whereas I think this Phillies team sometimes needs to do a little bit more of that, Jack. Yeah, and I think if you wanted to make a, if you wanted to be serious about making a run this year at a division, I think these were moves that you had to make. Because putting out Kingery night in and night out

just wasn't getting the job done. It wasn't making your team better. I think he's improved defensively a lot. A ton. He has improved a lot, Jack. We both talked about it. We were like, he's not a shortstop. And now he might not be a good shortstop,

but he's a passable shortstop. Again, but then he's a zero at the plate, so it doesn't even make up for it. Agreed. And then Alfaro, for the most part, has been a zero besides some big home runs. I think that if they were serious about wanting to go for the division this year, and they're serious about

trying to stay in this run, which they should be, because this is a team that has outperformed their expectations, and they deserve a legit chance to make a run at this thing. And by going and getting Wilson Ramos, Estrebo Cabrera, and even Aaron Loop to an extent,

it made this lineup deeper. It took the pressure off some of the young kids. And they brought in veterans here that know, I think that they know how to win. And that sounds so old school and cliche. Yes, I love it. It does. It does. But I do think there is some value in those kind of things.

And I think, sure, the young guys are going to get their bats down the stretch here and see what they can do. But I just think from a psychological standpoint, they don't have to be like, oh my gosh, I've got to do this today, do that to help this team win. Let Wilson Ramos and Esdrubal kind of take the pressure off. And man, Esdrubal last night was

inches away from the Phillies winning that game against the Red Sox. And it would have proved his value already. And, you know, he scored their only run of the game at a couple hits. He mattered in that game. And in the 11th inning, ended up striking out, but had a really good at bat there,

almost kind of working back from a one-two count, got it to a full count, fouled some balls off, just wasn't able to capitalize. But, yeah, Jack, I, just wasn't able to capitalize. But yeah, Jack, I think you make a great point there. They're going to look more and more like a professional baseball team. I've been watching this team all year, and I think it's great that they're back,

but sometimes I do ask myself, how is this team in the first place? Yes, especially with the defensive stuff we were just talking about. It's unbelievable how many miscues they make on a nightly basis, and this team is still 10 games above 500 yeah and and bringing in these two guys i think helps sure that up both from an offensive like this is what we're supposed to do and from a defensive standpoint so uh i think it's going to look a lot more aesthetically pleasing at some point totally agree that that's a point i was making with ramos earlier is he might not be one of those catchers who flashes on the defensive metrics or this or that, but he's going to be sound back there. He's going to call a good game. He's going to make the plays you expect him to make back there. And

then from an offensive perspective, he's going to add so much more. It's just really exciting. It really does make them more potent. It makes them more of a, like you said, a full team. It really fortified the areas of weakness. And I couldn't agree more with your point that really Klintak, I felt like he owed it to this team and the guys on this team right now and Kapler and the coaching staff to help them out with those types of moves, because he was doing it in a way where again, not sacrificing the future for the now, but still putting some sort of priority on making this team better for the now. A team, again, that is 10 games above.500 in first place at the moment.

So a team that has still had success, but he made them better without giving up a lot. You mentioned the name. The one acquisition we haven't gotten into yet. They bring in a loogie. They bring in Aaron Loop. Aaron Loop, your classic left-handed reliever. You look at the numbers. He is light years better against left-handed hitters than right-handed hitters.

Their career is 618 OPS allowed to lefties. So certainly an effective guy from the left side in terms of bringing him in to face lefties. What is your take, pitching guru Jack Fritz, on Aaron Loop? Well, it's weird. He's been worse against lefties this year in his career than in previous years in his career. Yeah, a 690 OPS against lefties this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I like Aaron Loop, and I've liked him for a couple years. I think he's a tough guy to hit because he has that classic drop-down lefty kind of reliever thing. I think his velocity is down a few ticks from the last couple years. Maybe that's why his numbers have gone up a little bit. But I like Aaron Loop. Him and Austin

Davis are going to be a solid little lefty punch at the back of a bullpen. Loop's done it before. Doesn't have great interleague stats. I don't think he's really pitched against many National League teams. I was trying to see if there was any correlation

to getting out of the AL East, but theoretically, getting him out of the AL East will help him. There are some loaded lefties in the AL, but coming down the stretch here in the National League, you're going to need to get lefties out because they're going to have to go up against Freddie Freeman.

They're going to have to go against Cody Bellinger. They're going to have to go Max Muncy, Anthony Rizzo, Harper, if the Nationals get back into this thing. There's a lot of good lefties. Christian Yelich. There's so many good left-handed bats in this race. Right. So you had to get a guy that you can trust in those big moments.

I think Austin Davis has done a nice job recently from a left-handed pitcher standpoint. But just Loop, another weapon if Austin Davis does struggle down the stretch here. Again, just loaded offensive bats on the left side of the plate. So getting a guy like Loop, while not being the most sexy left-yearver like will smith would have been um uh loop didn't cost anything and uh will help yeah literally didn't cause i've never even heard of the guy they traded yeah he's a triple a he's a triple a pitcher that he's an org guy he's a depth arm that's exactly right and uh yeah i'm with you look a will smith type guy even jake deman, a better left-hander than Aaron Loop. But I still, I think the Loop move is nice.

It's fine. It addresses, if you had to look at the bullpen and say one specific thing, obviously we talked about getting a guy who could pitch in the ninth and stuff like that. But I think if you just had to have one thing, it's give me a guy who can get a lefty out in a big spot. Because Tommy Hunter has been used a ton there.

And don't get me wrong, Tommy Hunter is starting to look a little bit better than before. We're starting to feel all right with Tommy Hunter. But other than that, like you said, Adam Morgan's been awful in those spots this year for the most part. But Austin Davis has been good. But Austin Davis, one of those lefties you can really throw in against righties and lefties, certainly better against lefties.

But not like Aaron Loop, like you talked about. He loop the loogie I mean he really is he's one of those guys who really situationally is made to face left-handed hitters and that's a guy the Phillies didn't have prior so I think it certainly makes them better Jack before we move on and kind of look at how some of the other leagues moves around the league and especially in the National League and how it influences the Phillies just your overall kind of feel at how some of the other leagues moves around the league and especially in the National League and how it influences the Phillies. Just your overall kind of feel of the trade deadline of this Phillies team and how it sets them up moving forward. I was happy with it.

I liked that they didn't give up much and got back good players that will help now and, again, won't put the young guys on the bench so they can't get any experience. I thought it was smart from that standpoint. They're kind of playing the let's go for the division and let's also keep developing these young guys and find out who can stick and who cannot stick. But also I was just thinking about the lineup. Adding Ramos and Enes Dribble behind Santana and Franco

or however that's going to work, it's going to force pitchers to hopefully start pitching to Carlos Santana. I know he loves to work a walk, but maybe they become more aggressive with him because they have a Ramos behind him. They have a Michael Franco behind him. They have an Estrela Cabrera behind him. Or even if you want to move down one, maybe instead of having Alfaro behind Franco or Nat behind Franco

or Kingery behind Franco, they're going to give more pitches to Franco because they know that Wilson Ramos is behind him or as Drew O'Cabrera is behind him. So I think from a lineup standpoint, they didn't get rid of, but they're not going to be playing two guys who are hurting the lineup on most nights and just deepen the lineup in a good way. Yeah, I feel very similarly. And again, I think you're just going to get professional at-bats from these guys.

You're going to get in big spots in September games. I'm going to feel a lot better with Wilson Ramos coming to the plate than I would with Andrew Knapp or Jorge Alfaro. Same thing with Estreba Cabrera coming to the plate than I would with Scott Kingery or even J.P. Crawford when he comes back or whatever. So I feel pretty good about it. And I feel like Glenn tech did a nice job again, of balancing the now versus the future and finding a way to help this team on the margins, fortify them in some spots for a run, but also really keeping intact what he and many believe to be the future for this team really quickly. before we move on, we saw a lot of starting pitchers go today.

More than expected, Gausman gets traded, Archer gets traded. We'll talk about some of that stuff, but are you at all disappointed? I know, and I really liked your thought on why the Phillies could or should trade for a starter with the potential innings we're going to get to with some of these young guys who've never come close to those types of innings before. Zach Eflin already at his major league high in terms of innings in a season. Are you at all nervous, worried, or whatever, that they didn't add a starting pitcher?

A little bit. I would have liked to see them go get a starting pitcher, but also at the same time, there really wasn't one out there that wasn't going to cost a ton. Like Archer would have been fun, but they also got a lot. They give up a lot for Chris Archer. I was not prepared to offer what they offered for Chris Archer. So I'm good from that standpoint.

And also, I have faith in some of the guys that they've brought up. I know Eniel De Los Santos has gotten hit around a little bit down in AAA since getting set down. I think Ranger Suarez is going to be really good. I was impressed with how he pitched in Cincinnati. I know he let up a couple runs, but the fact that he was spotting his fastball on both sides of the plate pretty easily.

Sometimes, obviously, it leaked down the middle of the plate, and that hurt him. But there were signs of him being able to reach both sides of the plate, which I really liked. I think they have an ability to stretch out these guys so where they're not where their arms aren't being killed like they can stretch them out they can bring up suarez they can bring up a de los santos or irvin and they don't have to maybe you know maybe they can give a guy five days rest and and kind of stretch these guys out and

manage it that way that's probably what they're gonna have to do because they don't they didn't go and add another guy to the mix here. So they'll be smart about it. They'll figure out a way to stretch these guys out to where they're not killing themselves. Now, however, if one of these guys gets hurt, that's a different story. They have to hope that no one gets hurt.

But they'll be fine. I would have liked to go get a starting pitcher, but also the market wasn't great and what the Pirates gave up was pretty ridiculous. Yeah, Austin Meadows, Tyler Glass now, and apparently another player to be named later who is, quote-unquote, of value. So that is quite the haul. Austin Meadows will probably step in and start immediately in Tampa.

Tampa also trading for Tommy Pham. They made some weird moves today, but we'll get into all that in a sec. To your pitch, sorry, pitchers point. I agree with you, but I also will say that the August 31st deadline has become a lot more viable over the last five years or so. You see a lot more trades in August. Of course, the non-waivers deadline has passed as we've been talking about, but the waivers trade deadline does go to August 31st. And with the new luxury tax damages, how punitive they are, you do see a lot more guys slide through waivers than you used to. So theoretically, if there is an injury within the next month,

they could theoretically go out and still add somebody, especially if a team like the Nationals falls out of it. I could see them. I could see a guy like Gio potentially getting through waivers. I know he's paid a little high for what I would like to pay him or guys like that. I think there are guys who could clear through waivers, who could potentially add a team come that time. But again, I think right now what you see is what you have to plan on getting. And I think that, Jack,

that is going to be one of the storylines we're discussing down the stretch is those starting pitchers and those inning limits. And I think you have a great built-in type of answer for that with Suarez, with De Los Santos, with Irvin, and whoever else you can bring up to get a spot. And who knows? Maybe Jared Eikhoff will actually throw a pitch this season, though I'm not counting on that one, Jack. I was actually in a little Jared Eikhoff rabbit hole the other night on YouTube. And, like, man, he was really good in 2015. He was really good.

I was really high on him. I really was. It was a real, or in 2016 it was. It was really disappointing last season when the injuries and all that. But he was someone who had borderline elite control with enough stuff for that to matter. He could still be ross stripling

let's not give up on him yet that's a really good comp man that's a really good comp especially if he can work with some spin rate type stuff and utilize some of those new analytics to work on stuff i think it's a really interesting comp yeah we'll see we'll see i'm not i'm not saying he is right yeah right now he hasn't thrown a pitch yet this season. And the last I heard, he's still getting tingling in his fingers or whatever. Yeah, not great. Not great, Bob. Not great. All right, Jack.

Wild deadline really around the league as, again, every single team in baseball made a trade of some sort. I don't know if that's ever happened before. But you look at some of the names that were flying around over the last week. All the infielders we talked about got moved. The Mike Moustakas is going to the Brewers. The Eddie Escobar to Arizona. The Brewers do get scoped.

That trade turns out as official. A lot of names like that. Brian Dozier goes to the Dodgers. The Dodgers traded for a double play combination of Manny Machado and Brian Dozier. That helps. And then obviously some other deals with some non-contenders. Archer going to the Pirates, which I think that's as much a move for the future as the now, obviously.

But Gaussman to the Braves. The Braves add Brad Brock. They add Darren O'Day. They make some moves as well. How do you feel about the rest of the moves that were made in the national league considering these contending teams the dodgers got much better the brewers got better the diamondbacks got better these teams at the end the braves got better these teams affiliates are going to be

competing with all tooled up a little bit as well any particular moves that worry you the most and from a macro perspective are you more scared of any of these teams because of them? I think that Dodgers scare me a lot now because I think Dozier gets out of Minnesota. I think he's a really good player. He hasn't had a great year, but they tried to get him two years ago. They finally brought him in now. So good job by them.

Second half Dozier, baby. Second half Dozier. Machado obviously is ridiculous. So they're obviously going all in. That's their plan the Brewers they crack me up because I think Travis Shaw is playing shortstop for them now or him or John

Scope second baseman John Scope might be your shortstop with Shaw at second base I don't know what they're doing kind of Philly-esque right with not caring about defense like worse their outfield defense is among the best in baseball with Yelich and Kane out there. So maybe that makes up for it.

Yeah, but they didn't add a starter. They didn't go get Matt Harvey. I don't know. The Brewers are fine. We'll see what they do. I agree. It's a good point in the sense that coming out of the trade deadline, the Brewers' starting rotation is still made up of guys like

Julius Shotzeen and Freddy Peralta and a lot of guys you can't count on in big game. I think the, you know, the break, like here's the thing. No one in the national league outside of the Dodgers, I think really separated themselves. I think, I think that the Diamondbacks made some moves, but I still don't think they're that, they're that great. I wouldn't be terrified of them in a five game series. I think they're a good team. I don't think they're that great. I wouldn't be terrified of them in a five-game series. I think they're a good team. I don't think they're a great team. Agreed.

But, yeah, so I don't know. The Braves, I think, made moves for now and in the future. The Phillies made moves to where they didn't express their young talent, and they're trying to still win now. And I think the Dodgers separated themselves. The Cubs, eh yeah they didn't really do much they brought in a bunch of crappy pitchers that hopefully they can figure out because for some reason they just they continue to neglect pitchers um out in chicago so um yeah i don't

know i don't think anyone really separated themselves besides maybe the dodgers yeah i think the dodgers did and again look it's one of those things where the dodgers went out and got machado then came in here and lost two or three So you can't overrate the addition of one or two players, but when you look at that team and that was already constituted, constructed, the addition of Brian Dozier and Manny Machado in the middle is formidable. And that makes them a better team. I don't think there's any question about that. And I agree with you that coming out of the trade deadline, looking at the National League landscape as it is right now, I think the Dodgers have to be the favorite. I think

they are, in my mind, no doubt the favorite, especially if Kershaw can continue to stay out and get back to Kershawian levels of production. But I agree with you that outside of that, I think it's wide open. I think that some teams made themselves better, but maybe like you said with the Brewers, I think the Brewers certainly made themselves better. I think, you know, when we've argued about Mike Moustakas, but Mike Moustakas and Jonathan Scope make them a better team from an offensive perspective. But like you said, the real issue they had was in the starting rotation and they did nothing to help that. The Diamondbacks, they get Brad Ziegler, they get Eduardo Escobar. They're better, but

not that much better. And they're not that good to begin with, comparatively. The Braves, again, going out and getting Gaussman helps, but Gaussman, as we discussed before, he's a buy low for a reason. He hasn't been very good. We'll see if he helps. And Brad Brock's had a bad year, too. Yeah, and Darren O'Day, very situational

guy who knows he's hit or miss this season as well historically a nice reliever but yeah I'm glad I'm glad they didn't get Archer I think Archer would have hurt Archer would have hurt and I think I think uh it was a really interesting move by Pittsburgh I think they gave up too much but we've discussed Archer and his contract before so I understand it if you're the Pirates I think you get a chance to get Archer and I get it but um I think that the main point holds Jack that I think as you're fighting for to get Archer and I get it. But I think that the main point holds, Jack, that I think as you're fighting for a playoff spot, and that has to be the first fight that you make,

and then you could start to worry about going deep into the playoffs. And I think in terms of getting to the playoffs, I don't think any of those other teams really improve themselves enough for me to say, i'm worried about what they did no no i and obviously the dodgers problem only happens if you you win the division and maybe face them in the ds or the nlcs so listen the dodgers are in a different place than the phillies right now they just are they're they're in they are in a position organizationally speaking agree right i mean they haven't won a World Series since 1988. It's been a while

and they've pushed all their chips in and they're going for it this year and that's perfectly fine. The Phillies are just in a different position. I don't want people to think that the Phillies aren't doing anything. They obviously did stuff to win now, but they're just not at the point to where they can be trading top level prospects for

right now. That's just not where they're at. A year from now, I think it's a different story. I think next year's trade deadline is a little bit of a different story because by then you should have your core in place and figure out who's your guy. Hopefully by that point they also have Machado or Bryce Harper or both.

They could have both of them at that point. Next year's trade deadline becomes just even more electric. But, yeah, the Dodgers are at a different point than the Phillies, and so are the Cubs. And hopefully next year we are at the same point. Yeah, no, it's a great look. The Dodgers were in the seventh game of the World Series

and could have, maybe should have won it last season. All right, the Dodgers are in a very different place than a team that won 66 games last year and was not even expected to contend this year. It's a great point, Jack, and you have to look at it through that prism because it is what informs these moves. It's why these teams are making these moves.

The Dodgers are at a different place organizationally. This is their last gasp. They have to go for it all. The Phillies have a bright, bright future in front of them. And you have to, it's a tough job to balance that bright future versus having an unexpectedly competitive team now. And again, I think Klintak did a brilliant job of navigating that. I really do. I think he did a great job of fortifying this team without giving up anything

that i'm worried about losing for the future so i i couldn't agree with you more there jack and if we're if we're looking for a legit if they were looking for a legit right-handed bat to help out the bench slash the starting lineup i would much rather have wilson ramos than adam jones or great mccutcheon he's a better hitter he's a better hitter right now like i'd say of course he is a significantly better hitter than either of those guys. And I know people are, Andrew McCutcheon? Andrew McCutcheon is not that good a hitter, guys, anymore. He's not.

What was up with the Andrew McCutcheon would be our savior talk today? I was like, are you kidding me? It's like, have you watched this guy play in a while? What's going on here? He's been terrible this year. He's batting.258 with a.730-something OPS. That's bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Done. he's betting 258 with a 730 something ops that's bad yeah yeah done he's he's he's cooked he's cooked yeah so that was weird i'm with you it was weird and that's why when it started happening i knew it was gonna happen like that and i i just wanted

people to be real about what andrew mccutcheon is and i think that that's kind of been the issue here jack with a large segment of fans where i think that a lot of people really wanted Klentak to go nuts here, to go all in, to say, screw it. We're going for it now. And I know we've talked about it a ton, but that's just not the right philosophy for where this organization is. Yeah, and Klentak's talking right now, and he said that Ramos will be out until mid to late August or even September 1st. So that's pretty hefty. That's probably why they gave away absolutely nothing.

That's absolutely why they got him for as cheap as they got him. Right, right, right. But also, I mean, credit to John Middleton. John Middleton could have easily been like, you know what, Matt? No. Go get Bryce Harper. Go get Manny Machado. We're trying to win this thing now. But I think he has so faith in in what klemtac has done and what mcphail has

done that he's just like all right this offseason we will start buying everyone um but right now it would not be the smartest thing to start giving away all of our prospects so i'm glad that middleton didn't go full steinbrenner i still i fully believe that he is steinbrenner of the south but uh i'm glad he didn't go that level of steinbrenner to where fully believe that he is Steinbrenner of the South, but I'm glad he didn't go that level of Steinbrenner to where he's like, all right, we're going to not worry about the future or plan for the future and suppress these young guys. I'm glad that Middleton didn't force his hand too much here. I couldn't agree with you more, man. I really couldn't. And again, look, we've said it before and I'll say it again, I just continue to be impressed with John Middleton as an owner.

And until I see something that changes my mind on that, I'm going to continue to be that way. And again, if he had jumped in and forced something and forced them to give up Sixto because he wanted Manny or something, that would have worried me. It would have worried me for the future, but he didn't. And credit to him, credit to Klintac for the restraint they showed in terms of not going all in on a move like that. Same thing with McPhail.

Again, I think, um, I just think you have to be pretty impressed with how this front office handled it. And I know again, a lot of people are going to be upset because they wanted something bigger. I can already hear, you know, people on sports radio saying that, but, um, I, at least here at the high hopes podcast, we feel very good about how Klintac did what he did and what he did. Um, we do have to call out, uh,

our, our good friend, John Marks though, because there was sure he's still our friend. Yeah. I mean, John. So John said that he would trade Oduble Herrera for a two month Bryce Harper rental is one

of the worst takes we've had from anyone on this podcast. We've got to call him out for that. No way, Johnny. No way. Yeah, yeah. And it's like I understand you hope that, I don't know, two months and you can re-sign this offseason. Do people just not look at contracts?

I mean, it's one of the best contracts in baseball. One of the best in baseball. And if you don't think he's a starting caliber center fielder on a World Series team or whatever, that's fine if you have that opinion. I don't totally disagree with you. I mean, I think he's a really good player, but there is some stuff that has me concerned from a consistency standpoint. good player but there is some stuff that that has me concerned from a consistency standpoint but the fact is is that you could like you could trade him for more value than a two-month rental like a lot more value that's the like it doesn't make any sense to me and also i mean if we're

gonna get really technical here like they have they have adam eaton and victor robles if they need a center fielder like getting a doodle yeah if you really want to yeah if you really want to get technical about it victor robles is their center fielder of the future. That is a team that, assuming they don't re-sign Harper, they're going to be building for that future. There are guys like Juan Soto and Trey Turner, and those guys are going to be the future of the Nats, and Victor Robles is a big part of it.

So, yeah, I'm with you. Again, that's outside the whole thing. It's a ridiculous trade concept to begin with. But, no, here at Diop's Podcast, we are not trading Oduble Herrera for two months of Bryce Harper. Sign Bryce Harper this offseason. It's a ridiculous trade concept to begin with. But no, here at Diop's Podcast, we are not trading Odubel Herrera for two months of Bryce Harper. Sign Bryce Harper this offseason. That's what you do, Jack.

Right, right. Add Bryce Harper to Odubel Herrera. That seems like a good idea to me. I would feel much better about Odubel and center and Harper and right. And again, like you said, if you want to sign Harper and trade Odubel, fine. But you can get a lot more for Oduble Herrera

than a two-month rental with Bryce Harper. That is the point. Oduble Herrera at $6.5 million a year is an asset, a valuable asset to major league teams. He is 26 years old. He is incredibly talented. He is a dumbass sometimes. We get that.

We saw it last night in Boston as, again, one of those games where you stay up for 13 innings and you're just bummed. But we saw it, the base running gaffe, brutal. Misplayed the fly ball. Again, that happens. I didn't want to freak out too much about it, but it's a play he should have made. He didn't make it. You see that type of consistency issues. You see the boneheaded type stuff sometimes. I get it. That is frustrating, but he is still an outstanding defensive center fielder who has made some amazing plays out there and obviously is an offensive threat, especially when he's locked in a legit, legit offensive threat. For six and a half million a year, you're not going to find, other than Jose Ramirez and a

couple other guys, you're not going to find more bang for the buck than Odubo Herrera. And obviously his defensive metric numbers have been hurt because Hoskins is in left field and Williams is in right field. Those guys are bad defenders, and they have consequently drugged down Odubel's defensive metric stats, which stinks, but it's made him look like a worse defensive outfitter than he actually is because he has to cover more ground, especially with Hoskins to his left, who has never really played out there doesn't really know what

he's doing um so that's been an adjustment for him it hasn't been a great defensive season for him but we've seen uh two plus years of of stone cold lockdown defense center field minus he has trouble judging a line drive off the bat which like everyone does like play baseball for once in your life and try catching a line drive. It's a great point. It's a great point, Jack. And especially let's not forget that he was an infielder by trade. I know it doesn't matter anymore. Look, he's an outfielder and stuff, but he's still only three years into his outfield playing career. That type of stuff is going to happen when you've been playing infield your entire life and you get thrown out in the outfield,

the majors, it takes time to adjust. I would say that the level of defensive center fielder he is at, considering that, makes it that much more impressive how good he is. And like you said, Jack, I think whatever the defensive metrics say, if you watch this guy play every night, you know what he brings you as a center fielder. And also to the point of last night, misjudging the fly ball, the mistake he has saved so many runs with plays that other center fielders would not make that. I think when these types of things happen, you have to give them a bit of a pass. I understand the boneheaded stuff. That's a different thing that I, I'm, I, I get it, but misplaying a ball in center field happens. It, especially a ball that is smoked in Fenway park in that spot. I get it. It happens, but, um, all right, Jack, uh, looking ahead here

as like you said, Ramos won't be here for a little while, but as Drupal will still, uh, be in there helping out. And of course, Aaron loop should be here relatively quickly in the next day or so moving forward, red socks tonight, big game for this this team they could have had one last night Aaron Nola man Aaron Nola I mean real quick I think it's unfair even though it's a trade deadline podcast to not just say oh my god Aaron Nola he was filthy last night against Boston in a game that we talked a ton about a stopper what they needed and all that Aaron Nola was and all that more and obviouslyola was all that and more. And obviously the only run he gave up a result of that miscue.

So shout out to Nola. But tonight, Arrieta on the hill. We've talked a ton. I feel like, Jack, every single time we talk about a big game against a big team and Jake Arrieta is on the hill, we say, this is why they brought him here. And sadly, most times it has not worked out. But as looks better for the most part the last you know two of the last three starts and the stuff moving a little bit more

arietta heading into boston tonight big game for this team jack yeah uh nola was just nola was unbelievable unbelievable he would it was probably the best game he's i've seen him pitch and it was the thing that impressed me the most was that was as close to a playoff atmosphere in the regular season that you're going to get. And the fact that he was in that environment and he thrived in that environment. He was touching 96, which was like all-star game stuff, except he was doing it for eight innings. He had Mookie, who is probably the AL MVP.

How great. How, wow. In the eighth inning, especially Kapler sticking with him in that spot. And that was awesome. Especially the leadoff double and then gets three straight. That was awesome. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, no, really impressive stuff from Nola last night.

And, yeah, I mean, Arrieta, big moment for him. I'm very nervous about him against this Red Sox lineup. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous about Arrieta against the Red Sox. But, I mean, this is, again, this is why they paid him. And he's been in all the big moments. And hopefully tonight against Drew Pomerantz, who stinks, he can shine. Yeah, I hope so too. And, again, they need it.

They need it. Four straight losses. And, you know, it's one of those spots. We've talked a lot about this team all year long being resilient. And whenever they really start to get into some sort of a skid of any kind, uh, whether it's in game or over multiple games, they fight back and they bounce back. And tonight would be a big spot for that. Um, any other final thoughts about this team or kind of the situation in general as we come out of the trade deadline?

We'll be back on Sunday like normal. We figured we would wait a little bit and give you a trade deadline pod, maybe even another one this week, depending on how it breaks out before Sunday as well. Probably another one on Friday. We'll see how it goes around. But how are you feeling about this team right now?

Listen, it's been a little bit of a tough skid here. The offense has been inconsistent they're not uh but they've always been inconsistent this whole year so i'm not really that surprised by it um but i i feel fine like skids happen in baseball uh they have the marlins coming in over the weekend that's a good time to right the ship you have the 018 back in town you have shane victorino getting on it on friday holiday and gillick on saturday and then the reunion on sunday it'll be nice to get all those players around the new young guys,

and maybe that helps a little bit get back in front of the home crowd. I mean, they're a really good home team. So honestly, just salvage tonight, like win tonight, get the off day tomorrow, get the new acquisitions here, and then go back home

and take care of business against the Marlins, get this team back on track. I am not going to press the panic button because this team has been resilient all year and they've earned my trust. Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. I feel the same way. I'm excited about a stretch run here in Philadelphia and I expect them to

bounce back and I expect them to play hard tonight. And look, last night was a frustrating loss. Anytime you lose in 13 innings is obviously an upsetting way to go down. But they were playing a 75, now 75 and 33 Red Sox team and they played their asses off and they played them tough

and they showed, like you said, Jack, in probably their highest profile game yet of the season, that or maybe the Sunday night or against the Nats a while back, they showed up and they played hard. And like you said, Aaron Nola looked like a legit top tier ace in that game, which is obviously exciting as well. So rate and review the podcast. Do it for Jack. It matters. It really does. It makes him so happy. I tell you every time, but I feel like I can't tell you enough

how happy it makes Jack Fritz. And also it helps people find the High Hopes podcast, people looking for Philly's talk. They don't have to go somewhere and find people freaking out about Klintac not trading for 10 stars or whatever. We can get some good Philly's talk here. And again, as Jack Fritz always says,

the High Hope listeners are the best. We truly believe that because you guys rule. And again, as Jack Fritz always says, the, I hope listeners are the best. We truly believe that because you guys rule. So again, rate and review Fritzy. It's been a pleasure. Enjoy. Enjoy tonight with Arietta versus Pomerantz and a dribble Cabrera. Big game tonight.

Why not? Big game tonight. So we'll be back later this week and then on Sunday and Monday, and we're just going to keep bringing it as many shows as we can pump out, uh, heading up to this stretch run and, just keep talking Phillies with you because we love it. Jack and I get legit excited to talk to you guys.

So the more we can do it, the better. So for Jack Fritz, I'm James Seltzer. Thank you for listening to the trade deadline, special edition of the high ups podcast. We'll talk to you guys later. All-star closer.

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