High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: Machado Watch

Episode Date: July 17, 2018

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back and officially on Machado Watch. They talk about the deal, who might go in it and John Middleton's involvement. They also hand out All Star break awards. See on Wednesday with the emergency Manny Machado pod! See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Introducing TD Insurance for Business, with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. This episode is brought to you a Mazda, you'll find out why our SUVs won more 2024 IIHS top safety picks than any other brand as of June 2024. Find out what makes Mazda different at Mazda.ca. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes podcast as we come to you from the first official day off for Major League Baseball in three and a half months, Jack Fritz. It is the first day of the All-Star break. I am currently looking at Bryce Harper potentially choke away the home run derby we shall see.

Kyle Schwarber is an animal. More importantly, Reese Hoskins brought it on the national stage. Jack Fritz, what's up, my friend? Yeah, I mean, Reese is great. And it was cool because they were talking about during his second run there, how he was personally thinking about how if he does well, then it just helps the Phillies on on a national stage and i just think that's so crazy for a 25 year old who has played in 115 maybe career games um to be that conscious about growing the phillies brand like as a guy who revolves his life around his brand the fact that reese hoskins is so uh interested in the growth of Philly's brand, I think that's really cool.

And he did great. And he really just put on a show, and I think a lot of people are going to remember this Reese Hoskins performance. Yeah, I think he's closer to 150-ish games, if I'm guessing. Regardless, the man has not played a full Major League Baseball season. And like you said, I think he really did. Major League Baseball season. And like you said, I think he really did. First of all, the fact that he's even thinking about how the Phillies look on the national stage and not him

and his opportunity is an insane, insane thing to think about. But also, like you said, he really put on a show. I was really impressed with the way he was. It's just so funny because he's such a rhythm hither. Like you could even see it in the home run derby. He would just get locked in and it would go like five in a row, six in a row. And that, that step and just pop step and pop and just repeating that exact delivery. Um, I, you know, look, some people hate the home run derby. Some people don't really care too much about it i personally think

with the new changes they've made i think it's a lot of fun jack yeah yeah and i'm watching bryce harper try to tie this thing up right now and it's just like you know i feel like everything with this guy is freaking scripted you know everything from from the hairdo from the the headband to the shoe it's all shoe. It's all scripted. It all feels fake. And watch, you'll probably win the whole thing on a walk-off, and it'll just all be fake. He's just a very fake person.

However, he would look great here in red pinstripes. Wow. Look at this. Look how fake this is. I wasn't expecting that. He's not going to win, I don't think. I don't think he's going to win. He just tied it up.

Oh, I'm behind you. I'm watching on the stream. Wow. So he went on a run here. This is a riveting podcast action here, Jack. But look, sure, I think you'll take all that back as soon as the Phillies give him $400 million. But right now... I'm just saying, if you really cared about America and the Constitution that you have on your cleats, Bryce Harper,

you would come to Philadelphia, the home of the cleats. And the home of the Declaration of Independence and all that good stuff. They're on his cleats. It's a terrifically fair point there uh fritzy that's what i try to bring here yeah i try to bring balance to this podcast i can't believe you hate harper though i feel like harper is the kind of guy you don't like it's just that tonight i really am i'm it's just it's annoying like why is why is everything so scripted with you it just it seems all fake i have a very good like fake slash phony meter like i can tell if you're a fake person

like maybe two minutes of meeting you and his fake meter is just going off the roof right now all right i'll roll with that uh um yeah it's fair look i think when you're on the cover of sports illustrated when you're 16 years old and you grow up differently and it's hard to to really compare them to uh to real human beings which is a strange thing to say but I look I like the way he plays the game he plays a fire he wants to win and uh look sometimes he's a knucklehead but he's also still incredibly young so um I'm with you. He hasn't really been a knucklehead in a while. He's definitely higher on the D meter than some other guys are. We'll leave it at that.

But look, Jack, we're burying the lead here because we're talking about the one free agent superstar at the end of the season instead of the other. Because it's all Manny Machado here, Jack. All of a sudden, we were all out. We were all like, you know, chill. It's all right. Machado here, Jack. All of a sudden we were all out. We were all like, you know, chill. It's all right. They're not going to do anything stupid. We're okay with that. And now we're all in, we're at the point, Jack, where I feel collectively and certainly myself that if the Phillies and look, I think that if I had to bet, I would bet that they are the team with quote unquote, the deal done right now. But I But if it doesn't happen, Jack, I think most of Philly's nation is going to be disappointed at this point.

Yeah, no, I agree. I think we would be devastated. And for the longest time, me, you, and a lot of the High Hopes listeners and Johnny Marks, we've all been pretty calm on the Manny Machado thing. And then it was like, well, he's probably gonna be a Philly and we're like all in. It's crazy. And like we're trying to be smart about this, but I'm kind of the point where I don't care about being smart. And I want to I want to have a fun Manny Machado if it's two months, which like would suck if he left. But I just don't think he would leave.

Players that come to Philadelphia, no matter the sport, end up loving it here. They always love it here. They love the crowds. Then they're going to love $400 million that John Middleton is going to fork over to him. He'll love that. But I'm just saying that athletes that come here get engulfed by the culture here. And I think that would happen with Manny Machado. I think he would look at it and be like wow i could be the best player on a young

improving team i can get paid 400 million i'm gonna get my ass back to third base because i don't want your ass a shortstop anymore manny you're gonna you're gonna take your freaking what is it your little cousin who says you should play for the yankees and you're gonna get him to shut his little little crap up and you're gonna and you're going to be all excited that he's coming to Citizens Bank Park next year, Manny Machado's cousin, I think you are. But yeah, no, it's cool. It's fun, and I just want to announce that John Middleton has joined Drew Hanlon as one of the ten most important people in my life.

I'm sure they will both be incredibly um touched honored and humbled and honored especially middleton i mean that's probably what he's worked for to get to this point where the jack fritz would say that he is that important to him but look i'm with you and and we'll get to middleton in a minute because i i have some thoughts on that and then we'll get to the jerry krasnick i don't know if you call it report but you know tweet or or thought that he put out there the the middleton harper machado thing but a couple quick thoughts on the machado thing i think that long term he will move back to third base he's obviously i heard joe gilio on the afternoon show with you today and Marks talking about it. He said he's 100 times better as a third baseman than a shortstop.

I think he's a million times better as a third baseman than a shortstop. It's not even the same type of league. He is an outstanding third baseman, and he's a bad shortstop. It's that simple. He's big. He's lumbering. He's not built to play the position. shortstop. It's that simple. He's big. He's lumbering. He's not built to play the position.

I think the reason he's been so staunch on it is that, look, shortstops make more money. It's a fact. And I think that once the dude gets paid, he'll be more than willing to sacrifice the shortstop thing for the longevity of the bat and the career and the better defensive position. But to your other points, I'm with you. I think that right now, especially if it's a package centered around guys like Adonis Medina and Jalen Ortiz and whatever, guys I like and I was excited about in a theoretical sense. But guys, I'm more than happy to give up right now for the chance at, like you said, two months of Machado, not just to kind of supercharge this run this season, but also the opportunity to get him in here and to have that, whatever that leg up is on the

competition, it is at least something that you can point to, especially when you know that Middleton's going to take care of the other part of it, the checkbook part of it. So let's get to your guy, Middleton, as Jerry Krasnick over the weekend, also one of the, probably in my opinion, of all the bombshell tweets that came out in a two-day period about the whole Machado thing and all that stuff, Krasnick comes in with the haymaker saying John Middleton is aggressively willing to spend and that sources have said that they wouldn't be surprised if he went for both Machado and Harper in the offseason. Jack, look, a couple thoughts on this.

First, obviously the general thought of that possibility, but also owner involvement, you know, throughout history, the history of sports more often than not owners that get involved in, in personnel or in pushing for things generally end up having a bad effect on the team. What's your take on this whole Middleton coming in with haymakers situation?

Or they win a Superbowl like Bowl like Jeff Lurie did. Hey! It's kind of tough. But I understand the history of owners getting involved. But also I understand that pushy owners also care and they get stuff done. And if he is just willing to write a blank check for Manny Machado, I don't care about giving up Adonis Medina and an outfield prospect,

which I heard today. I heard that it's going to be Adonis Medina and an outfield prospect. And according to this source that was talking to Joe Giglio, he said that Andy McPhail is a magician because the Yankees' offer was better, and so was this other team's offer. The Phillies don't even have the best offer, but because of McPhail's relationship, apparently that's what's like, I don't know, it's crazy. But it's supposedly Medina and an outfield prospect.

I don't know what the outfield prospect is, but still. I like involved owners, and I like that owners that care. And John Middleton clearly cares. And I think that he's just saying to Matt Klintzak, listen, buddy, you go get him. I'll pay him. Don't worry about the money. I will pay for him.

I want to win now. I want to win big. And it's not like you're bringing in Manny Machado to a team on the rocks. Like, this is a team that's only getting better with the young stars. So, like, I don't know. In this case, I think it's fine. Now, if this was, like, 2012 and you have ownership coming in and saying, no, you can't get rid of Chase Utley, you can't get rid of Jimmy Rollins,

you can't get rid of Ryan Howard, I think that's a mistake. But when your owner's coming in and saying, hey, I want to go get a top five player future Hall of Famer and I'll pay him whatever it takes. Just get him here. I like that. Yeah. Look, I feel the same way about Middleton, especially in this specific situation. I think, look, to your point about the Orioles taking a worse package, they're the Orioles, so sure. I'd believe it. They've been so mismanaged now for really since McPhail and Klintak were there. It's really been just one bad decision after another, and now they're obviously in a situation where they have to sell off the one great generational talent they've had come through there in a little while.

So, look, I wouldn't put it past him to take a worse offer. And also, look, with those prospects, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? Some teams value Adonis Medina more than others. You hope that the Orioles are one of those teams that see something special in him. But I also think that I heard that Julia, what Julia reported or said on the afternoon show and, and look, I love it. I hope he's right. Um, I'm at the point where, where Jack, there are so many rumors and so many things that have come out and so many twists and turns that I I'm just, it needs to happen. I don't, I can't believe anything else. I can't do anything else.

My heart is so ready to be broken, Jack. How much can I take if this doesn't work? I just, do you, all right, let's put it this way. Do you think it's going to happen? Yeah, I would be floored. Wow. I would be floored if it happened. Like it just, floored wow i would be floored wow like it just everything everything is just adding up it really is and you know what you know what is is is just staying in the back of my brain this whole entire thing is two years ago we started hearing rumblings about john middleton wanting to be steinbrenner of the south and how the phillies are this sleeping giant and guess what baby that sleeping giant's being awoken right now because they're gonna turn into the bully of the South and how the Phillies are the sleeping giant. And guess what, baby? That sleeping giant's being awoken right now because they're going to turn into the bully of the National League again, the Yankees of the South. I am just all in.

Like, I understand the owners getting involved thing. Yeah, I don't. Steinbrenner's, you know, some Steinbrenner went well, but it also went pretty horrifically for a large portion of time as well. I understand. But like at the same time, man, like they have all the money in the world. They have I don't view this. I just don't view it as a two month rental.

But I think that if Machado doesn't come here, I think it's I think it'd be very hard to convince him to come here. I really do. If Machado doesn't come here, I think it's I think it'd be very hard to convince him to come here. I really do. And I know that sounds pessimistic, but I think if he does not come here and spend two months and get in the culture. And because I think that a lot of people have bad misconceptions about Philadelphia. And I think until they play sports here, I don't think they understand how awesome of a city this is. Like, you know, you hear from everywhere like, oh, man, it smells like trash all the time and whatever. Listen, if you played sports here, you would understand how awesome of a city it is to play in and live in.

And I think if they don't get him for two and a half months, Manny Machado will never understand how awesome that is. Wow. He'll go to New York. That's how I feel. I genuinely feel that if he doesn't come here, I just don't think he's going to come here if they don't trade for him. See, at that point, I don't disagree with –

I agree with your premise that playing here and coming here would matter in the sense that I do agree with you that it is – it's obviously a very special sports city, and it's an amazing city to play for, and the fans are passionate, and they're smart, and all that stuff but I don't I don't think that that him going somewhere else especially if it's the Dodgers or something like that the Brewers I don't see the Brewers re-signing him if he goes to another place and he's just going out on the open market and there isn't a spot where where the allure is strong I think they Phillies could

absolutely outbid another team for him absolutely could like you just said Milton's willing to pony up and he knows this front office like it's not like he's gonna go Philly boo like look he already referenced he's seen that we have we want Manny signs and all that type of stuff he's not an idiot he seems like a bright dude. I get where you're coming from. And I think your core point is right about Philadelphia and playing here. But I don't think that him getting traded somewhere else precludes him from coming here, especially if it's one of those other two teams that have been considered, quote unquote, the front runner for him. But to your point about Middleton, I just, again, I agree with you. I think that when he went on Angelo's show,

you know, what was it, about a year ago or something, and he just said all the right things. And look, that doesn't mean anything, but it just felt real. It felt like he's a fan of this team and he wants them to win and he's willing to do whatever it takes. I do think there is a very slippery slope. Once you start changing personnel decisions or getting involved with stuff like that, I start to worry. But I think at least up till now, it seems like he's given McPhail and Klintak a lot of autonomy, a lot of, you know, agency to do what they think is right. And that's all you can ask for from an owner and then to open up the checkbook.

Yeah. Yeah. right and that's all you can ask for from an owner and then to open up the checkbook yeah um yeah i i i just i think if he goes milwaukee obviously he'll hit the open market if he goes to arizona he'll hit the open market but like i just think he'll i don't think he'll fully understand what it's like playing in philadelphia and then he'll and then he'll just say oh well let's go to the yankees and they just went on a deep world series run he'll just say, oh, well, let's go to the Yankees, and they just went on a deep World Series run. He'll view himself as, like, putting them over the top. I don't know. I'd just be worried if they didn't get him. I'd be more worried about him going to New York if he goes to Milwaukee or doesn't end up here. The Yankees thing is just in the back of my mind,

how they can still outbid pretty much everyone, even though, you know, they can't really outbid us. Like, they have to pay a luxury tax. They have to pay that. That's exactly. And Hal is not George. Hal is much more fiscally conservative. Plus, you know, it's not going to be that long before Aaron Judge needs to get paid. Luis Severino needs to get paid and all that type of stuff.

So, I mean, they still have some time with those guys. all that type of stuff. So, I mean, they still have some time with those guys, but, um, uh, look,

I, I think that, I think the Phillies with their situation in terms of like, like $64 million or something is set for next year total. I mean, they're way below the luxury tax and can absolutely are, are the team from a financial perspective, best equipped to,

to sign Machado or Harper or whatever. Yeah. And, and, uh james dallasberry was on our show today and he was just saying how uh the phillies for a year now have just been determined to get this guy like no matter what it takes no matter whatever uh the the money the prospects like they have been determined for over a year to get this guy and i just i just think they're gonna get him i think they're gonna sign him long term i think he's gonna love it here i don't obviously i don't

think he's gonna sign on the the second he gets traded here i just don't think that's gonna happen but i think when he comes into free agency we're gonna like listen i'm gonna wake up every day in a cold sweat until he signs that extension but i just think that once free agency starts it's going to be down to us and the yankees and i just i just have a really good feeling that he's going to sign a long-term deal here 400 million whatever it's he's a 26 year old hall of fame caliber player at third base like you do that deal every day of the week yeah well i mean look it makes sense these guys you know in clint and mcphail like they drafted Manny Machado. They know him.

He is someone who they probably take pride in, the fact that they saw him and, you know, developed him and what he's become. So it certainly makes sense. And we've all been talking about them gearing up for 2019 with Machado and Harper in their sights. So, look, it could come a little earlier than we expected. Hopefully you and I are talking on an emergency podcast tomorrow,

or I guess tomorrow for most people who hear this. I'm talking about Wednesday, Thursday, somewhere in there to just talk about Manny Machado being a Philly Jack Fritz. But let's have a little fun. It's going to be so sweet. It's going to be so sweet. But until that happens, let's have a little fun. Let's gonna be so sweet it's gonna be so sweet but until that happens let's have a little fun let's look back at the first half of the season i'm gonna throw a few of the classic uh you know awards uh first half award type things at you maybe a couple

other superlatives as well but let's start with the the obvious one fritzy who is your philly's mvp through the first half of the season aaron nola yep i would i would say it's nola uh he was an all-star he pitched like an ace uh he just asserted himself as a top 10 pitcher in the entire game uh and i mean literally he would just roll out of bed seven innings less than two runs. Pitcher wins don't really matter anymore, but they win a lot when he pitches, and it's because he just gives them a chance to win every single time he goes out there. They're not in the position they are without Aaron Nola being the complete stopper that he is. Aaron Nola has been just really a treat to watch this year. I love watching Aaron Nola, and yeah, a treat to watch this year. I love watching Aaron Nola.

And, yeah, he'll be my first half MVP. Yeah, look, I think he's the obvious choice from a playing perspective. He is, you know, him, Scherzer, DeGrom, the three clear leaders for the NL Cy Young right now at this point in the season. So I'm with you. I'll go another way just because you took the obvious player who has been the clear mvp the stopper the ace of this team but i'm gonna give the mvp to gabe capler how about that i know he's not a player but he was before he's close enough to being a player

and uh he's just done such a great job man and i know you and i have talked a lot about this but you know i think that the easiest way to look at it is to look at a team that is in first place in the NL East. That is the youngest team in baseball and has not really clicked offensively, defensively, the bullpen has struggled. And what this guy's done to bring it together from both the culture perspective and a team that goes out and fights every day type of perspective. You know, I know you have too, but I've just been so impressed with him. I think he's my MVP for the first half, Fritzy.

No, it's fair. And us and the High Hopes podcast, we're a bunch of Gabe guys, just Gabe guys all over the place. And he has been great. And the thing is, when we started this podcast, me and you were very much in on Gabe. We liked him a lot. He was been great. And the thing is, when we started this podcast, me and you were very much in on Gabe. We liked him a lot. He was our guy.

We wanted them to hire him before he got hired is the point. Yeah, yeah. We really like Gabe Kapler. And the first month of the season, we were defending him out of principle. It was like, it's way too early to judge this guy. The bullpen's not that great. The staff isn't pitching that well offensively, all that stuff. But we were just defending him out of principle it was like it's way too early to judge this guy uh the bullpen's not that great the staff isn't pitching that well offensive all that stuff but we're just defending him out of principle it was just like we just all thought that this was too early to to jump down gabe capler's throat we don't think he's an idiot james he legitimately might be a really good manager

like he might be he might be a really good manager The way he's managing this bullpen, the way he's kind of settled into a lineup, he's become – I'm shocked with how in he is on keeping guys in the positions they're comfortable in. I think since he's taken over and since he started managing the team, he's gotten less and less analytically inclined with his decision making. It's much more feel now. It really is. And I think, I was thinking about this the other day.

Like, I want to ask him, if I ever ask him a question in my entire life. I don't think I ever will. But if I ever get close enough to ask Gabe Kapler a question I just want to ask him like did getting into a dugout and like away from a computer like help you in a way because stepping away from the computer and not always thinking about

what would the analytics say to do here or what are the analytics saying to do here and just trusting your baseball instinct like it's crazy how fast that has flipped for him because i really do believe that i think i think the more he's actually gotten back into baseball the more he has stepped away from the whole computer side of things and i like analytics i really do i think it's great but there's just some things about baseball that listen it's been around for 130

years like it's it's not always broken like it doesn't always need to be fixed. And I just think he's, he's remembered a lot about actually playing and coaching baseball. And I think it's cool. Yeah. Look, I think that, um, I think one thing you can really say is that he's, he's learning as he goes and it seems like he's adapting. It seems like he's not making the same mistakes that he made earlier in the season. And that makes sense. He's a really bright guy. You know, whatever people like to complain about him, no one ever says, well, he's dumb. He's clearly not dumb. He's a smart dude.

And I think you make a great point about his ability to adapt and change what maybe he expected to be like as a manager. And maybe why that's happened is a really fascinating thing to look at but I also think that that when a lot of people were were killing him before the season and in the first week of the season and all that I think they like you said it's kind of just like everyone thought of him as this this computer dude when we all seem to forget that he very recently played 12 years of Major League Baseball and was on a number of different teams and understands the way clubhouses work and what it's like to relate to guys this age and all that stuff.

And I really do think that's something that's benefited him as well. Yeah, and I think he— Go ahead, buddy. I think he came into the league thinking, like, this is how I'm going to do it. This is the smart way to do it. These things work. And the math says to do this there. And I just think that once he was, like, in the – what do they call it when you're fighting a war and you're down in the –

Foxhole. Yeah, and you're in the foxhole, a.k.a. the dugout. I just think you go back to your instincts. And I think that's happened a lot this a.k.a. the dugout. I just think you go back to your instincts, and I think that's happened a lot this year, and I think it's really interesting. I'm impressed with the way that he has adapted to managing. Like, it feels like we're watching a different team from the beginning of the year.

Like, 68 pitches he's pulling Aaron Nola. Now he's letting Nola pitch 110 pitches because he trusts him. Like, he literally says like yeah i just trust him now it's like what's like analytics game would never have said that kind of thing but now they actually watched and he's he's developed this relationship with aaron nola he's watched aaron nola like he gets it he's like oh well this guy can go way more than 68 pitches and i know that's just a stupid opening day take uh if he could have easily whatever like he pitched like 89 pitches the next start whatever i'm just saying that uh i think once

you're in the foxhole you go back to your instincts and i think he's done a really impressive job of doing that all right who's your lvp for it's real quick flipping it around tommy hunter yeah that's a good one i think most people do do. I don't need to ever see Tommy Hunter pitch. I actually had a similar thought, but mine, a different member of that vaunted preseason staff. Hector Neris was the clear LVP, in my opinion, going from the closer to the minor leagues and looking atrocious in doing so.

But Tommy Hunter is a great one too, especially because he's still killing us right now. Yeah, but at least they went away from Hector Neris. Like, everything on Sunday They took them a while.

Let's not get carried away here. Hector Neris had a good opportunity to blow up a bunch of games before they got rid of him. Before they demoted him. Every single time they have a one- run lead in the seventh inning i see freaking fat ass tommy hunter coming out to me and i just don't brutal he doesn't even

yeah i'm with you his stuff looks terrible why is it why is a niche check getting those those innings like i understand solo spring training but like we still have to win games like tommy hunter every time he comes in the game you're saying to yourself cool here comes a run and like man I just I just I can't take him I can't take him anymore I try to give him the benefit of the doubt for most of the season but I just can't take him anymore yeah he needs a phantom D Elston or whatever nice to have Neshek back though he's certainly looked good since coming back uh obviously we don't need to do a Cy Young because of Nola. But who would be your number two Cy Young if you had to pick one? I think Sir Anthony.

Yep, and he's the Rookie of the Year and all that. And he actually is. Look, he's in the running for the actual NL Rookie of the Year as well this year. It's not a particularly potent crop of rookies you got. You know, guys like it's not a particularly potent crop of rookies you got um you know guys like uh um it's even tough brian anderson is a guy who's in the running from the uh the marlins of course um so it's not it's not a a stacked class of uh was hurt oh yeah akuna was hurt um there's one other name i'm i'm missing hold on it'll come to me i know i'm missing a name of a oh one soto who's been great and obviously you know at 19 right now probably the the leader

in the clubhouse but look sir anthony's in the race especially if he continues to do what he's doing all right two more superlatives i want to throw at you biggest surprise for you so far for the first half for the Philadelphia Phillies this season? That's a really good question because I got two guys in mind. I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm shocked by how wrong I was on Nick Williams because I literally think he stinks. And I just can't believe how good. Like, I can't believe how good.

Like, I'm going to say something really nice about Nick Williams. Wow. Everyone get ready. This has never happened before. Yeah, because I don't like doing it. But I'm just kidding. I'm glad Nick Williams is good. I care more about the Phillies than my own person'm just kidding. I'm glad Nick Williams is good.

I care more about the Phillies than my own person. I think, I hope people know that. Anyways. No, but like he is, Ben Harris wrote this whole piece about how Nick Williams has had the biggest transformation in controlling the strike zone in Major League Baseball history. Like the biggest turnaround from one season to another in ability to control the strike zone. Wow.

And I just think that's crazy. And listen, I think my judgment ofiams was completely fair and it was right i didn't expect him to completely change the way he was a hitter like nick williams of last year was a guy that was swinging a bunch of balls outside the plate and and he had a fatal flaw with a fastball up in the zone like that's what nick william. This year, he is making contact on everything. He's making hard contact. He's not swinging at balls outside of the zone. When he does swing at balls outside of the zone,

he's perfectly fine just slapping it to left field and taking a single. I think it's been a really, really impressive development for Nick Williams. I'm not sure what his ceiling is, but I don't think it's completely unrealistic to think he could be jay bruce with five less homers a year like is that fair like a 260 275 hitter with a 330 obp and like 25 homers i mean i think that's i think that's fair i think that's fair very fair actually uh so i would say i'm surprised by by nick william Williams being a competent major league player, still terrible in the outfield, but I'm surprised with how good he is. I never saw it coming.

Wow. I feel like we should just end the podcast. I feel like that's like a Costanza, you know, you're out on top. Let's go. Um, look, it's a great one, especially for you as, as such a staunch Nick Williams hater. I think this is such a fun question because there are so many positive surprises in the first half for this team. Look, we don't have to dig more into Nola, but I think just how good Nola is and will continue to be in my mind, in your mind, is I think a surprise for a lot of people.

Certainly I didn't expect him to be a top 5 or 10 pitcher in all of Major League Baseball. And I think the whole pitching staff really, with Pavetta and Eflin, Eflin especially I think the one that, the most surprising of all for me. But I'm going to go with someone offensively who, it's not as much of a surprise because he's been doing what he continues to do. But I think for me, it's just, I finally turned the switch this season to say, Cesar Hernandez is just a good hitter and he's just a really good baseball player. And I always looked at him as kind of a, maybe we can flip him for something.

And I always looked at him as kind of a, maybe we can flip him for something. He's okay. And I've really come around on Cesar as a piece that I'm happy to have here and is a really good leadoff hitter who is just so consistent with getting on base. And he, you know, not the best second baseman you'll ever see, but certainly shorthanded enough and plays the position well. second baseman you'll ever see, but certainly shorthanded enough and plays the position well. Jack, Cesar Hernandez is really – like I finally turned the switch on my surprise that I'm no longer going to be surprised

at how good Cesar Hernandez is. Yeah, and I've had the same thought for a little while now in the sense of maybe you keep him. And I think Kingery's turned a little bit of a corner at shortstop. I think he looks pretty confident there. Me too. And maybe you don't rush to trade Cesar because Cesar makes his team better on a night-in, night-out basis.

He really does. He gets on base a lot. He works the counts exactly the way that the Phillies design their offense around. He's a perfect leadoff hitter for them. He plays a nice second base. He's really cheap until, like, 2021. I think it would be premature to just rush into a Cesar trade and put Kingery at second base.

Like, everyone's saying, well, put Kingery back in his natural position and he'll be fine. It's like, listen, man, the guy's a 225 hitter right now. Like, I don't think putting him back at second base is going to be, like, all of a sudden, like, oh oh now i remember how to hit no it's always gonna be a development for him so i wouldn't i wouldn't rush to trade cesar unless it's in a a no doubt a no doubt trade for like a a really good starting pitcher like maybe fulmer i would like a really good starting pitcher. Like maybe Fulmer. I would like a little bit better than Fulmer. But I'm not in a rush to trade Cesar Hernandez.

I'm really not. I'm the same way. And I wouldn't have told you that a year ago. So 100% the same pitch. Cesar, in my mind, is a guy who helps you win now. And he could be the fifth, fourth, fifth, sixth best hitter on a championship team. Like he could be a piece of something

like that. So I'm with you 100% in on Cesar, both in the near term and in the somewhat future, at least the next couple years. I think there's a real possibility that he's a guy you keep instead of a guy you get rid of. Fritz, the final

superlative I have for you. We've talked a lot about the positives, as we should, as Gabe Kapler likes to do, and as this Phillies team is in first place. But if you had to pick the one thing that's your biggest disappointment, and obviously we talked LVP and whatnot, but on a grander scale than a guy like Tommy Hunter, what is your biggest disappointment so far with this Phillies team team so far uh through the first half of the season uh i think it's john maylie i wow outside the box answer yeah i didn't want to say

the obvious one so but i've just been i've been pretty disappointed in a john maylie led offense i was very excited for him coming in um And I think he still teaches the right principles. But, like, guys have gotten worse under him. And guys haven't really progressed under him. Like, Nick Williams, I think, is taking a nice step forward. Cesar's kind of been where he always is, but his average is lower. You know, Reese went through that month stretch where he was terrible. So did Adubel.

Aaron Altair, he couldn't make Aaron Altair a good player, which is on him. 100%. This is all John Maley's fault. Obviously, because Aaron Altair is basically the greatest player ever just waiting to be unleashed. Right. And then the fact that he couldn't get it out of him is on him. But, like, guys just – I don't know who's gotten better under John Maley.

It feels like Santana's have a bit of a downturn. I think Reese has been great. He's still batting 260-ish. And he struggled in July, for what it's worth. Reese, I mean, Oduble went through the worst stretch. Well, he went through a classic Oduble stretch. I'm not sure what you can really do with Oduble. But, I don't know.

I kind of just expected more out of John Maley, and I'm a little disappointed in the results we've gotten from a John Maley-led offense. I don't know. Yeah, I think that's a terrific answer, and I know you alluded to the obvious answer being Arrieta. I'm not going to go there either. And I think you could say the defense,

and I think that would be a fair answer as well. But I'm going to go even more outside the box with my answer for biggest disappointment for me in the first half of the season. And I understand why it's happened, but it still bothers me that it's happening. Get that out to the ballpark, people. I hate watching a first place Philadelphia Phillies team playing big games in July and June, and there's no one in the ballpark. And it really is a frustrating thing to see. And I understand it. It takes time. It takes time for people to come back and really believe this team is good and to remember what it's like to go down and have a great time at Citizens Bank Park. But it's time we're there

and i know if they trade for machado which we both think are a real real possibility that that could help goose things a little bit but jack people got to get down there man this team's legit they're going to be fun for a long time get him before everyone else does yeah and i think i think they already would be if the offense was more fun like i know me and you both love baseball we'll watch the phillies i know the high hopes listeners love baseball and they'll watch the phillies no matter what but for the casual fan like we fell in love with the phillies because it was howard rollins oddly and you know if you went to the ballpark at any given night those guys could sell some fireworks and like for the casual fan it's all

about offense and like this team is just a it's been a boring offense i understand the walks they will help you win games they'll help you more than they'll hurt you but that doesn't mean it's got to be a fun watch like watching these guys grind out at bats and turn every at bat into a brett myers versus cc at bat like that's great in the nLDS against one of the greatest pitchers of the last decade. It's not great on every night. I don't know. I think if the offense was more potent and not as inconsistent, and you had Manny Machado to go along with everyone,

I think people would be showing up more frequently. But, yeah, it's a little bit frustrating but i also understand that it takes a little while for the fans to come back and we just came off the super bowl and and the sixers stuff so um now we're just like oh a first place team ah you know we're used to that here in philadelphia but um yeah no it'd be it'd be more fun i think if you get machado at least 10,000 more a night. Yeah, one correction for you there. I did not grow up on Chase Utley and Ryan Howard and those guys.

I grew up on Steve Jelts and Ricky Jordan and One Magical Year with Dutch and Lenny Dykstra and all of them. I'm an old-ass man, Jack Fritz. But I get your point, and I agree i agree with it and look um like you said one way or another this team is fun and they fight hard every night if you go out to the ballpark you're gonna see a team that is never out of a game and is always gonna have a chance to win and and that's fun yeah but they're fun they're fun in the sense of diehard Phillies fans being excited that the team's good again. For the casual fan, it's just not as fun

when a team's not as consistent on the offensive side of the ball. I think if they're more consistent and they had a more explosive offense or whatever, I just think people will be more in. I think they like to be in the offensive side of the ball. Sure. Look, everyone loves offense. Everyone loves home runs. I'm with you.

But regardless, this team is competitive, and I think we both think whatever happens here at the deadline, they're going to do something, whether it's Machado like we think or they end up losing out and going after Beltre or Moustakis or Hand or whatever they end up doing. But look, I think either way, they're going to be a fun team. They're going to be competitive and ultimately people will end up going down if they continue to win games, regardless of how they win them.

Fritzy, any final thoughts before we, before we ultimately probably talk to people in two days on an emergency manny machado pod uh two final thoughts uh because i i've seen that well first we didn't really get into it because i don't think you and john talked about it because it was after uh that podcast came out i get that to that in a second but um I see a lot of, like, Carlos Santana stuff. And, you know, I understand that he's the four-hole hitter and they're paying him. But just because he's the four-hole hitter now,

like, that doesn't mean he's a four-hole hitter. Like, Carlos Santana was signed to be a key cog in a nice offense. He's not here to be the Ryan Howard of the Phillies offense. Ryan Howard is great because he can drive and runs. Carlos Santana is just a good offensive player that is now batting 215, but he's going to end up batting what he always does, and he's still getting on.

He's on pace to break the Phillies record for walks. That's crazy, and walks are valuable. If you grew up playing baseball, your coach always said a walk is as good as a hit. And I understand that he's not driving and runs the way that we thought he was and whatever. But he also has a 209 bad bit, which that's got to come up in the second half. So I see a lot of like Carlos Santana, you know, worry about him on offense. And they're saying, well, he's a four-hole hitter. He's got to drive in runs. Listen, man, it's not Carlos Santana's fault that he's batting in the four-hole.

Sure, I'd like for him to drive in 100 runs. I just don't think that's going to happen. Like, I've watched Carlos Santana for the last five years. I understand the player he is. Like, just calm down on Carlos Santana. Once Manny Machado is here, you're not even going to realize. You're not even going to realize what Carlos Santana is doing with his offense. Put him back in the two-hole, let him get on base, put Machado

in the four-hole, Hoskins in the five-hole, and let's do some damage. I agree. What was your other final point? Chase Utley is a Hall of Famer, and he was the best player on the team from 2004 on, and I will not hear any other argument against that. Yeah, you won't hear it from me.

I get infuriated with that Jimmy is more a Hall of Famer than Chase. I think it's a bad argument. I get it. I know Jimmy has the numbers, and I know defensively he was superior, but Chase Utley was one of the two or three best players in the sport potentially for a five-year period. I don't know. Jack, you know what we're going to do?

Whenever the Hall of Fame noms, and obviously Utley not going to be eligible for five years down the road, but I want to have a conversation with you about peak versus longevity in terms of numbers. And I think they both matter, but I'm definitely a peak guy if I have to choose between the two.

And Utley, a classic case of the peak mattering over the longevity. So I'm with you. You won't hear any fight from me. Maybe Marks will be willing to fight us on that one, and we can get into that. But my final thought, we kind of underplayed it before, Jack, but I don't think we made a big enough deal. I think we really have to congratulate not only Bryce Harper,

but the Washington nationals. Uh, I think Bryce Harper winning the home run Derby in that park in Washington is the single greatest achievement in the history of the Washington national franchise. So the first time they made it out a little, little, little golf clap, little golf clap for them. As, uh, as, as their, as their rain comes to comes to an end and uh and it was not as fruitful as they had hoped all right wait can i go can i go inside pitching for like five seconds sure also rate and review the podcast to make reds happy go ahead oh yeah we we've gotten some we've are on a nice run on the review he gets so excited about him just do the reviews for jack

if you care at all about jack do it for for Jack. And if you hate Jack, do it for Jack. Well, I don't think anyone hates me. And if you do hate me, that's just on you. That's a you problem. Anyway, a little inside pitching. So I didn't see any of any of Dale Santos on Sunday because I was tuna fishing. I caught a tuna, but the Phillies didn't catch their big fish. Hey-o.

The joke didn't work on Twitter. It didn work here bad come on come on someone had to laugh at it anyway um jake arietta so uh really quick he has found his cutter away to righties and into lefties and it's really really helping him even though he only struck out three against the marlins uh just giving uh giving hitters something else besides his fastball to key up on uh it it starts the same plane as fastball but it cuts away and i just think it's it's it's helping him get back to at least being not a dumpster fire on the mound so i'm excited about his his cutter getting away to right he's an into left lefties. It's a legitimate weapon. And anything to make him not terrible, I'm here for. And to hopefully elongate his career.

But yeah, good stuff from Jake Arrieta. I thought he was great in Miami. Got a lot of double plays. And it feels like he's starting to figure it out a little bit. Yeah, no, it's good to see. He certainly looked a lot better in that outing. And, you know, it's against the Marlins and all that, but it's also Marlins' team that put a sick spot up on him earlier in,

I believe it was May or the end of April, when he was actually pitching relatively well at that point. So, you know, look, every outing that Arrieta goes out and gets out is good with me. All right, Fritz, hopefully you and I will be talking in a day or two. We'll be talking a little Manny Machado of the Phillies. So I think the only thing we have to say is make it happen, Phillies.

As always, and I saw some report from John Marossi that they're going to throw Medina in the deal and no other team's willing to put... Wait, hold on. John Marossi literally just tweeted, Philly's the most likely destination for Manny Machado due to Adonis Medina involvement.

Unless another suitor increases offer, reported earlier today, the trade is very close. Here's our latest story. So listen, folks, it's coming. It's coming down to it. We'll be back in like five hours with another podcast. As soon as it happens. Listen up.

Yeah, Fritz and I will be there. We will be there we will be there for you we will talk about it because as jack always says there is no one or anyone anywhere who we love more than the high hopes listeners that's why we're up at 11 15 at night with uh you know just sitting here i've got the al and all stupid softball game thing on just just just just gutting it out and because we we love you guys and uh and hopefully we'll be talking to you about manny machado soon so uh for jack fritz uh for the abs and john marks for future philly manny machado thank you for listening to another edition of the high ups

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