High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: The Winter Meetings are Upon Us and Hot Stove With Kevin Frandsen

Episode Date: December 10, 2018

The most important Winter Meetings of our lives is upon us and brand new dad, James Seltzer, is back to talk about it! The guys talk meetings, general hot stove stuff and more! Then Jack is joined by Kevin Frandsen (34:41) to talk Segura, Phils offensive approach, why they should go after Madison Bumgarner and more! See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Talking about the Philadelphia Phillies. On Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast. James Seltzer, Jack Fritz coming your way. You're back. I'm back. I'm a father now, Jack. Oh, God.

How crazy is that? I mean, like, I'm happy you're a father. I'm not happy that you selfishly had it right after the Jean Segura trade. You know, we had been talking to our listeners this whole time about how excited we are for an emergency podcast. And you messed around and had a kid. So, first apologies to our listeners this whole time about how excited we are for an emergency podcast, and you messed around and had a kid. So first apologies to the listeners. I'm guessing the listeners are going to forgive me for this one. I got a feeling.

We got great listeners. I'm guessing they're going to understand on this one. But look, I'm here right now, Jack. I should be on my way to see my daughter, but instead I'm with my son. Yes, and who are you more? Jack Fritz, my 24-year-old son. Who are you more proud of? All right, let's dive in.

It's winter meetings. Well, hold on. First off, I know. We have to get your thoughts on the Gene Segura trade. Oh, yeah, good point. I love it. And I am... Look, I'm not...

And I love it even as someone who has not given up on J.P. Crawford's Major League career. I still think he could be a really nice Major League player. But in that spot, to get a guy like Segura on the contract he's on, especially a guy like Segura for a team that was so infuriating last year with the strikeouts, the lack of ability to put the ball in play, to get a guy like that who strikes out as little as anyone in Major League Baseball for the most part. Fourth hardest guy to strike out in baseball last year.

And there's been a lot of buzz about Michael Brantley. He is the second hardest guy to strike out in baseball last year. And there's been a lot of buzz about Michael Brantley. He is the second hardest guy to strike out in baseball last year. So I like that they're starting to prioritize guys who put the ball in play, hit for a high average, and don't strike out. Yeah, well, it's a change, philosophically speaking. But very happy with the move. You get a couple pitchers thrown in. I know a lot of people are into James, my boy, James Pazos. Is it Pazos? Pazos. Pazos. I was corrected in my DM. Pazos. James Pazos. I mean, that dude

is just awesome. Yeah. Well, not only because of the mustache. I was only talking because of the mustache. But he's a lefty and you can throw a little bit, which is nice. But yeah, I think considering what they gave up, and again, I still like JB Crawford, but where his value was at after that season, I thought they did a really nice job in that trade. Yeah, and there's been some rumblings about how J.P. doesn't really work that hard, and they're worried that his work ethic

wasn't where it needed to be for him to be a consistent major leaguer. And ultimately, you hope that he turns into Gene Segura, and he probably won't ever get there average-wise. But O.B.P., you can see him being a high OBP, good defensive shortstop. He could have a nice career. You know, he's still young.

Yeah, and for them to get out from under... No brainer trade at this moment. And they got out from under the Santana contract and they got back actual value with the Santana contract,

which I was expecting them to get a nice player. You were expecting them to almost give him away in some cases. Yeah, and get like a high upside project back and for them to get back

Gene Segura, I understand it's going to end up costing a little bit more in the long run, but he's a really, really good offensive player, and then obviously James Pazos, which is, I mean, he did that for me, I think. I think he did. I think he did. A wipeout slider, and then Juan Acasio, bad ERA last year,

but all the peripherals are like, this guy's pretty good. Yeah, and a guy the Phillies had liked before, obviously, brought him before and all that so yeah i'm a big fan of the trade yeah and then the other trade this week was obviously the luis garcia for jose alvarez which is a no-brainer i couldn't believe it how did anyone take luis garcia and i was all right i mean people people lefty people like the dream on the arm of l Garcia, but he stinks. I couldn't. Honestly, he might have been number one on my guys who were on the team last year. I don't want to watch pitch again.

He might be number one, and there are lots of long lists. Yeah. No, there's a lot of lists. I will say, I like Alvarez a lot. Just in watching, I went back and watched some full innings of his. Of course you did. He locates his pitches. He's able to locate 91 outside part of the play, down, in.

Good slider. Watching Jose Alvarez highlights. Who are you? It wasn't highlights. It was full innings. Again, who are you? I don't care. Just the fact that we've basically replaced the Adam Morgans of the bullpen,

the Luis Garcias of the bullpen, with James Pazos, Jose Alvarez, and Juan Nicasio. That's just the back of the bullpen. Now if they go after a Britton, a Miller, and although I did hear Peter Gammons today. Peter Gammons was on MLB Network and said that Andrew Miller says his needs are 100%. So let's start to get back in on Andrew Miller a little bit. I get my guys now. It's like I do my perfect offseason plan. All of a sudden, it's like I want Madison Bumgarner.

I want Britton. I want all these guys that Seltzer said. Here's what I do is I go way out on guys, and then I come back in. You make a perfect off-season plan. All of a sudden, it's like, I want Madison Bumgarner. I want Britton. I want all these guys that Seltzer said. Here's what I do, is I go way out on guys, and then I come back in. Then you get pulled back in. All right, well, Fritz, we're almost five minutes into this podcast, and we haven't talked winter meetings. The winter meetings are happening right now. I know.

We're doing this podcast, and the winter meetings are happening. Yeah, and it sucks, because there are three. I woke up this morning thinking, like, flurry of moves, all that fun stuff. Then I remember they're in Las Vegas, so they're three hours behind us, and I was looking at the schedule last night, and every day the opening session's at like 8 or 9, and I was thinking, our time? Nope, that's like noon, alright? That's like

11 a.m. So it's like three hours of just blue balls before anything really gets started. It's going to take a little time, too. They've got to do all their meeting stuff. I've actually been to the winter meetings before. Ah, so jealous. It's awesome. It's one of those things where you're at the hotel bar, which I was at when it was in Orlando. It was at the Swan or whatever it was, the Disney World Resort there. And you're in the hotel bar.

And no joke, I'm sitting there. And I've got Gary Sheffield talking to Jim Leland on my right. I've got Frank Kona, Bruce Bochy talking over. If you love baseball, it's really awesome to be there. And just thinking about that now, Jack, that's what's going on. And for the first time in a while, the Phillies are the centerpiece team of the winter meetings. They're the team that everyone's talking about. John Heyman's making suitcases of money jokes out there.

I mean, this is what it's about right now, Jack. So where are you at right now? I mean, they start today. I don't think we'll hear about Harper until either day two, probably day three. I think they'll close out the meetings with that, but it could happen tomorrow. It's possible. A Harper deal? Yeah. I don't think it's going to happen in the meetings anymore.

I don't think either Machado or Harper signed the meetings. I think they all drag it out to January. I think Machado's waiting, one way or the other. Machado said he's going to visit teams. That's going to take some time. I don't know. I think it's still possible one way or the other. Machado said he's going to visit teams. That's going to take some time. I don't know. I think it's still possible that Harper could sign here.

Possible, but, I mean, Boris is always looking for the most amount of money, and now Rosenthal comes out yesterday and writes this whole piece about the agent wars, and it's Lozano versus Boris, and Boris wants the most amount of money, and the longer they go in a free agency, I don't know. There's been a lot of buzz they're going to wait until January. I would be surprised if anything happens during the winter meetings for either one of those guys. Which kind of stinks because you want to see the big stuff happen. You just want it to happen. But, I mean, last time they were in Las Vegas, a CeCe Zabathia to the Yankees deal happened at 3 a.m.

So it feels like we're going to have one of those 3 a.m. freakout, mass freakout, or wake up to it. But I think Harper's going to wait. I think he's going to wait. They're going to wait out all these teams. They're going to wait for the Dodgers to maybe get back involved and really bring in Bryce Harper. Wait to see what the Yankees plan to do. I think Boris wants to get the bigger name guys in rather than right now. It looks like it's just the White Sox and the Phillies.

And, James, if they lose a player to the White Sox, I'm going to – I hate – the White Sox are irrelevant. They are pointless. There's no point to having a Chicago White Sox team. They just had one of the worst Hall of Fame – Hall of Fame of all time get in yesterday. Hall of Fame is a joke. I'm done with Hall of Fame. What are we doing?

I'm out of Hall of Fame. Why are you putting him in the Hall of Famer of all time. Get in yesterday. Hall of Fame's a joke. I'm done with Hall of Fame. What are we doing? I'm out of Hall of Fame. Why are you putting him in the Hall of Fame? I had two feet and nine toes on my way out on the Hall of Fame and putting Harold Baines in just sealed the deal for me. No, but if they- Done. Listen, the White Sox can- Harold Baines in the Hall of Fame and Barry Bonds isn't awesome.

That's really good stuff. That's what you want. That's what the people want. But if they lose a free agent to the White Sox. They won't. I'm not worried about it. I don't think they will either. It's just that build your freaking team organically, Chicago, and let us have our big money.

I understand you have all this money in the world, Chicago, apparently, but you're the White Sox. No one cares about you. No one worries about you. Let the Phillies just be the big dogs for once. Can we just be the big dogs? I don't want to deal with the White Sox. They're going to be the big dogs. I hope so. Don't relax. It one worries about you. Let the Phillies just be the big dogs for once. Can we just be the big dogs? I don't want to deal with the White Sox. They're going to be the big dogs. I hope so. Don't relax.

It's happening. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people have to get past the fact that they would have to be severely outbid. Not severely outbid. They'd have to basically choose to go elsewhere. Exactly, because they're not getting outbid. Whether they want Harper or Machado more, I still think it's Harper,

but one way or the other, whichever of those guys they want the most, they're going to spend the most money on if that player wants to go there. And if it is Scott Boris, Dan Lozano, if those guys want the most money for their clients, the Phillies are the most money. Yeah, and there's been kind of a buzz from Hayman wrote the other day that Harper's people aren't really sold on being in Philadelphia,

which is, you know, whatever. Because Scott Boris took A-Rod to Arlington, Texas. Philly is not bad. It's bull crap. He'll be fine. I mean, it's better than D.C. and he spent the last, whatever, eight years in D.C. He had a plan in front of Nationals fans. Yeah, come on.

He had a plan in front of Nationals fans. Let's be real here. I agree. All the smoke that I've seen, I haven't bought any of it. Scott Boras is the master. He's the best who ever did it. And he is as good as there is at creating a market when there isn't one. Yeah.

And I don't think there's a market. I think the Phillies, like you said before, the worry is the Phillies are bidding against themselves. Well, Rosenthal came out today and said that an agent said that to him. It's Philly bidding versus Philly. Yeah. Which I don't, I'm fine overpaying for them. I don't want to turn into $100 million more. Right. Like, you don't want to just overpay because you have the money.

$400 million instead of $350. It's fine. All right. If it's $500 million. Instead of $400. It's like, what happened here? How did this happen? It's ridiculous.

So, what's weird right now, James, what's the weirdest part about what's going on in Philly's land with these two guys who are, like, James, what's the weirdest part about what's going on in Philly's land with these two guys who are, like, James, this is the biggest week of maybe my life. This is the winter meetings with Harper and Machado. Mine too, but for a different reason. I'm still in the biggest week of my life. Yes, yes, you have a child,

and my baseball team may be really screwed if they miss out on one of these guys, which is more important? Where are your priorities? Is it with the pod or is it with the kid? Okay. I'm a little disappointed you didn't name her like Jackie or Harper-y or Manny. There's something there.

You could have took one for the team, but whatever. Could I, do you think? The most interesting thing I think right now is that salisbury keeps coming out and saying that machado's the target and machado's the guy and the phillies are that's their guy they've liked for a long time and if you're reading in between the lines it seems like from what salisbury has has gathered they want machado at third segura at short brantley and left and miller in the bullpen. And like Jay Happ, basically. That's what I think has been laid out to Jim Salisbury.

But if you look at every single national guy, it's like Harper, Harper, Harper. All they want is Harper. I'm very curious to see who's right. Because I trust Salisbury with my life. If Jim Salisbury said, Jack, you're going to make a million dollars next year, I would say, thank you, Jim. I guarantee I will. Because I trust him that much. But I also think Ken Rosenthal's going to make a million dollars next year, I would say, thank you, Jim. I guarantee I will because I trust him that much. But I also think Ken Rosenthal's going to do his job.

I think John Heyman sucks. Yeah, Heyman's a joke. But it's just interesting the tug of war between Machado's the guy or Harper's definitely the guy. And I don't know who is being lied to by the Phillies. That's what it comes down to, right? I mean, that's what it comes down to. And the reason I think that, and I agree with you,

I think Salisbury is as good as it gets, and for the Phillies, certainly the go-to guy, the godfather of the beat, in my opinion. But I do think that Salisbury is getting his information directly from the Phillies. I think that the national guys are getting their information from the Phillies, from Abrams' agent, from this guy, from that guy, from other agents,

from all kinds of different spots. So I'm more willing to believe those national guys in those spots. And when you really look at it, whether it's baseball or football or basketball or whatever, I mean, how often do the local guys break the biggest stories? Never. Yeah, but Salisbury's done it most. I know he has, but for every hundred big stories, it's a national guy 99 times on it. And I just think that that's the better track to believe in for that reason and for the amount of information that they're gathering.

But again, like you said, it also could be, hey, Jim Salisbury is a guy who's reported stuff in the past, has been right about what he is. We can use Jim. We can get Jim to put out there that it's Machado, and that maybe takes Harper's price down a little bit or makes them think that we want Machado more or whatever. There's so many different little factors in this, and that's why it's so hard to believe anything you hear at this time of year, Jack. Yeah, I know. And Salisbury just came out and reported that the Phillies and Team Boris

are working out a time to meet here in Vegas. Phillies maintain interest in Zach Britton and Bryce Harper, though at the moment seem to be more on Machado than Harper. So, again, he's saying that he's doubling down. Again, Salisbury is the only one. And he's the only one that keeps saying Machado. The lone voice in the wilderness. And listen, if he's right, Salisbury's going to be walking on water. Yeah, well, it'll be a great call by him.

And look, again, he could be right. I just, I feel like the Harper, again, and I know that Bob Nightingale came out three weeks ago, whatever it was, a month ago, and said, bank on it. Take it to the bank, Bryce Harper, the Phillies. And I still believe that report. Like, I do. I think that everything that we've heard since is smoke, is Boris trying to create a market that isn't there necessarily, or at least

a level of market that isn't there. And I just think that ultimately, I think the Phillies are going to get their guy. My prediction, right now, it is December 10th. I think the Phillies will still sign Bryce Harper. That's been my belief from the beginning. I'm sticking to it. And again, I'm just not getting swayed by a lot of these reports.

And look, I could be wrong. Salisbury could be right. But right now, I still believe it's Harper. All right. Do you want to get into other things that might happen this week? Yeah. So another guy they've been linked to a lot, and I know they've offered a contract to, is Michael Brantley.

Ooh, look at you. They've offered a contract already, is Michael Brantley. Ooh, look at you. They've offered a contract already. Yeah, that came out a couple weeks ago. Did it? I missed that. Yeah, so they offered him a contract. And Brantley is a guy, he batted over 300 last year, 360 OBP. Only had 17 homers, but you'd think that was good. He's not really a power guy anymore. Not a power guy, but

again, doesn't strike out. If you need him to play first base, which they probably won't because Hoskins is there. And they did everything in their power to get Hoskins back to first base. Brantley, I love the player. And I think he's a beautiful baseball player. But 32 years old, major injury concerns. Like major.

We're talking like microfracture. Like serious knee issues. There was concern he'd never play again. Exactly. And unlike Grady Sizemore, another failed Indians outfielder. Which is a shame. He was a great player, Grady Sizemore. Him and Ellsbury are my two guys.

Yeah, I loved, I thought Grady Sizemore was going to be a superstar. And he would have been. Yeah. So Brantley offered a contract, 32 next year, three years. Are you comfortable giving that guy three years? No. It's going to that guy three years? No. It's going to be four, I would guess. He should just go to an AL team and be a DH.

I agree with you. What's the most interesting thing that I can think of between offering Brantley, behind offering Hatt, behind getting these older guys is it feels like the Phillies think their window to compete is right away. Which is interesting because if you look at their actual young talent, I mean, Hoskins

is here. And that's about it. Oh, and Kingery. You think. Right. We don't know if he's actually here. He's here. He's physically playing.

Is he here? They have to decide what they want to do with Franco. They have to decide what they want to do with Cesar They have to decide what they want to do with Cesar. And it seems like they can't move Cesar for anything. And at this point, James, I would take a bullpen piece for Cesar. Me too. I don't need him here next year. I'd rather just have Kingery not be the super utility guy.

And just put him in second base. Just put him in second. Let him go do his thing. I think that's his upside. I agree. His upside is that of being a second baseman. And jerking him around all season again. Well, even though it it wasn't all season he played shortstop for most of the season but it was a brand new position coming off of second base which i just i don't know

spike askin was making faces in the window of course he was um i just i totally threw you off though well yeah i just break it jack's like what's happening behind me right now? I was in a role. I'm worried that they're trying to open up their window and they're just going to start paying for a bunch of older guys who aren't going to be here in three years or good players in three years. Look, and I think it's a fair worry, especially with where we thought this organization was and where they were heading based on. And then you start to say, all right, does that mean they're going to just trade all the younger guys for pieces? What are they going to do?

Are they, you know, do they still care about building up the farm system? Look, it's interesting because I do think that there's something to John Middleton saying, all right, boys, let's go. And maybe Klintak not having been quite as ready to go and kind of being forced to go because that's what the owner says and that's what they do, and I'm kind of torn on that. But ultimately, I think where this team is at, they have enough talent here now, and if they can add these pieces supplementally,

I mean, they're automatically a legit contender. So I'm okay with that. I'm okay with getting the Phillies back to contention, but I do think it raises some long-term questions, for sure. I'd rather make trades for younger pieces that can be here for the next four years than give Michael Brantley a three-year deal. I 100% agree with you.

I like Jay Happ, and I think Jay Happ would be a nice 4-5 starter, but they'd be relying on him to be their No. 2 next year. And same thing if they trade for Madison Bumgarner. I mean, Madison Bumgarner is one year left on his deal and then you're signing him for five more years after that? I would guess

five, six, something like that. But that does feel more like a long-term piece than a one-year rental. And I would prefer them go after long-term pieces, guys who can be here when the window is really, really open. These guys are starting to blossom. Rather than, we don't know where Kingery is, Alpharo looks like a nice piece, don't know

what you're getting out of a double, Nick Williams, all these kind of things. It just feels like they're rushing into a window of contention that might not really be open. It's a very fair point. I think, look, if they go out and they sign one of the big-name guys and they add a bullpen piece or two and they add another starting pitcher, I mean, they're going to be a contender. No, I completely agree.

But if you're telling me that you're signing Jay Hapto to your deal, what's really the point? Well, I think they're trying to contend immediately. They're trying to make a World Series next year. They're trying to contend right now. They're trying to play for the World Series next season, and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with the two. I would just prefer guys who I think could be here long-term.

I think what it is is they need a mix of both. I think that you make some long-term decisions, but it's also okay to bring in a guy like Happ. It's a question of if you're bringing in Happ and Brantley and X and Y, and these are all short-term pieces, then it's more of an issue for me. But if you're kind of mixing the short-term with the long-term, I'm okay with that. Okay, it's fine. I'm happy they're going to do it. I'm just trying to think logically.

I understand. It does feel like Hap's going to come down early this week. The Hap contract, and it seems like the Yankees and Phillies are going back and forth. And I'm very cool with J-Hap. And I think he's been one of the under-the-radar stud left-handed pitchers in the AL for the last four years. He's been really good. Stud is maybe a step too far, but he's been a really nice pitcher. Under the radar, good pitcher. Sure.

And you think about him coming back to the National League, there's a lot of upside with that move. So, look, I'd be fine with J-Hap, too. You know, Dallas Keuchel, another name they're patting in on, which is, look, I'm with you. I think he's fine. I think he'll age relatively well, soft-throwing lefty. But the money and years for a guy like Dallas Keuchel, I don't think I would want to be in on that as much.

But it does seem like they're in on him. Yeah, it's keeping me up at night. Why are they not trading for Corey Kluber? That's what I want. Oh, Corey Kluber's on the table. Why am I not hearing the Phillies in on that? They're in on every other trade out there. Why have I not heard the Phillies attach to Corey Kluber?

Explain that to me. Maybe because for some reason the Indians want to move a guy who's been a horse and he's on a cheap contract for the next three years. Or Cy Young, who's on a cheap contract, it makes no sense to me why the Indians want to move him, and I'm sure the call would be huge. Huge. But if you're in on everybody else, I mean, why not go get Corey Kluber? Because I just don't think they want to give up Sixto.

I don't think they want to give up Sixto at all. I would for Corey Kluber. Just saying. 34? Three years of Kluber? Every year he's dominant. I mean, and also a late bloomer. Doesn't have as many miles on his arm as all that. I'd do it for Kluber every year he's dominant I mean and also a late bloomer doesn't have as many

miles on his arm as all that I'd do it for Kluber not a big game pitcher I mean the World Series against the Cubs he was awesome until that last start

that whole playoffs he was amazing I really really like Kluber he has the he just has the ace look to him the ace feel to him he's a guy that

you can trust I would trust him for the next three years 100% I would uh it is it is interesting and i just feel like i feel like the same thing with cinder guard like why is the why are the mets getting rid of cinder guard it makes zero sense to me but but brody van wagen or wagen whatever his name was his agent and maybe he knows the arm history he knows what's going on he. He has the deep MRIs into Syndergaard's arm. So maybe that's why they're moving him now instead of a year from now and be paying much goods. Why are you getting rid of Corey Kluber and re-signing Carlos Carrasco, who hasn't really stayed healthy for a whole season ever?

And then they're looking to get rid of Bauer, too. It makes no sense. Bauer's still got our beers left. A lot of people are tweeting me and saying, why aren't they going after Bauer? And believe me, I don't want to go after Trevor Bauer's still got our beers left. A lot of people are tweeting me and saying, why aren't they going after Bauer? And believe me, I don't want to go after Trevor Bauer. And not that I don't think Trevor Bauer is not amazing. It's just that I was watching him on MLB Network, and he was saying how I want to sign a bunch of one-year deals, play on a bunch of different teams to spread what I've learned about pitching.

And I want to spread all my knowledge that I've learned. That is the most Trevor Bauer answer. Dude, he is unbelievable. I was watching him, and I was yelling at my computer. He's just so frustrating. But also incredibly smart, incredibly fascinating. Yeah, I just don't think you can commit to him being here for the next five years. If he doesn't want to be here, obviously.

If he just wants to move around to a bunch of different teams, jump around and be that kind of guy. He's more of the end of the line, put you over the top guy you trade for rather than you try to build a rotation. I think that's fair. I mean, I think that's an interesting, I hadn't heard that interview, that certainly sounds like Trevor Bauer. Sounds very Trevor.

Which leads me to Madison Bumgarner. Yes. My original perfect off-season plan. I understand. I get you. But the Phillies need a legitimate number two next year. If you're going to compete, and you're going to tell me that you are trying to compete for a World Series right now and you're investing in short-term rather than the long-term,

you can't go into next year thinking that Arrieta can be your number two. You can't go into next year thinking Pavetta is going to take that much of a leap to get to a reliable number two. Velasquez, no. Eflin, no. So they needed some kind of number two. And if you look at the market right now, Kluber, obviously. I mean, Kluber's an ace. I mean, Kluber's your one.

I mean, 1A. Yes. 1-1A. Him and Nola would be tremendous. Yes. Great. Madison Baumgartner, outside of Kluber, and I don't think Bauer's a viable long-term option, is the best guy on the market.

Yep. And would cost significantly less than Kluber, only one year left on his deal, all that stuff. Yes. And hasn't been as good as Kluber last couple years. Hasn't been as less than Kluber, only one year left on his deal, all that stuff. Yes. And hasn't been as good as Kluber last couple years. Hasn't been as good as Kluber. Now, a lot of it comes from the fluke injuries. Like, the dirt bike incident happened. He didn't look like a great pitcher with the dirt bike stuff. Came back, velocity was 91 the season before last. Comes back to spring training last year, and is sitting 93 to 95.

And everything's back. He's able to get inside to righties. And when I was watching his starts last year, he was in September where he had an ERA of like 5-2-3. Broke his hand is where it winds up. Whit Merrifield broke his hand and whatever. In September of last year, he couldn't get inside to righties. And the 91 was just leaking out over the side of the plate. And it feels like he couldn't finish.

He couldn't finish inside. He didn't trust his stuff enough. And that is part of the philosophy of pitching is when you don't trust yourself, you don't trust your ability to get inside, it messes with you mentally. And I think he lost his arm slot a little bit. He didn't throw his four-seamer as much. Got too much in the cutter. All that fun stuff.

So there's been a lot of people saying, like, I don't want Madison Baumgartner. I got no interest in Madison Baumgartner. And I just think it's, one, I think it's ridiculous to completely write off a guy who's been one of the best pitchers in the sport for the last seven years. And has won a ton of big games. Look, I think regardless of the last two seasons, if I had to pick one pitcher in Major League Baseball to pitch a game for me, it would be Madison Bumgarner. Right, and a lot of people are comparing him to Arrieta. The difference is that Arrieta went from 97

and learning how to pitch at 97 to 93, 91, whatever. Also a pitcher who relies on velocity more. I mean, Bumgarner needs it, but Bumgarner has more deception to his delivery to what he does than Arieta does. Right, and Bumgarner has very loose mechanics. The ball comes out of his hand very easily, and he doesn't put a lot of wear and tear on his arm. And even though the injuries were it was a broken hand.

Freak injuries. And they weren't arm-related, which is great for arm health. His numbers align exactly with John Lester at age 29 at cc's bath at age 29 all the way down to the the strikeouts per nine which is at 7.5 all those guys at age 29 7.5 strikeouts per nine i think he's going to age gracefully into his mid-30s i do too i have no problem giving up medina in a deal for him um i don't know what else he would have to give up. I think Medina would be the headliner, maybe a major league piece.

Like a Franco, maybe a D'Ubel. I would do that deal in a second. I know you would. Just saying. No, I know. There's a way to make it happen

where you don't have to give up six, so you don't have to pay too much. But for one year of Bumgarner, and then I'm good at giving him like a Cliff Lee deal. Five years, 120?

Agree. I'll give him five years, 120. I agree. Because for as much as people say he's got a lot of miles in that arm when you're talking about when you're talking about aces and you're talking about horses and talk about guys who throw a lot of innings i would rather bank on a guy who knows how to get his body ready for 200 plus innings rather than bank on a guy like patrick corbin who just jumped to 200 innings this year from like 150 yeah like it matters to a guy who's who knows how to get his

body ready for that rather than kind of corbin just all sudden i'm gonna throw 222 innings this year from 170 ish so while the miles is one thing there's also a spin to that saying he knows how to do it he knows how to get his body ready and i just trust that bum garner is one of those guys that knows how to get his body ready he's gonna he's gonna if i can if he can he's one guy i think can figure out how to pitch at 91 i totally agree with you if he has to pitch at 91 i think he'll figure it out um uh we're gonna get more into bum garner with kevin franson coming up here in a little bit can't wait it's gonna be fun um he's he's known as monger since he was 18. That's a long time. It's a long time.

How about that? I just think there's been so much negativity around Bumgarner. I am very much in the camp of go get the guy, make him your number two. And I have had visions in my sleep of Cole's Citizens Bank Park and Bumgarner through six with Joe Buck's voice saying, Bumgarner through six. I'm not lying to you. Nice that you've had those. How come you couldn't add those versions when I was laying out my perfect offseason plan

and I said trade for Madison Bumgarner and I got ridiculed? It's the past though, Jack. I don't know what you want me to do. We move forward. I agree. I think he's going to age really well as a pitcher. Change of speeds, all that type of stuff. But what else, Jack?

Because we've got Franzen coming up. I've got to go see my daughter. So what else do you want to get into before I get out of here? Hold on. I did write down some notes. Oh, I love notes. So I was very excited. Look at Jack.

Jack, I can't tell you people how much he cares about this podcast. It's all he talks about. It's like his only thing. I kind of feel bad for him. Okay. So I know you've got to go. So, last thing, just general baseball-wise. What do you think about the report of getting rid of shifts?

Yeah, I thought it was interesting. I think that they're, look, you know I've long said that I put the shifts on offenses' inability to hit the ball where the shifts aren't far more than I do on defenses doing them in the first place. Look, I'm all for trying to make the game more interesting, more fun, whatever. I just think that this is a—I think it's weak, to be honest. Like, I have no problem—like, if they want to do it, fine. Like, I'm not going to raise the biggest stink ever because I do think it will help the game. But I think it's weak. I think teams should adjust. Learn how to hit the biggest stink ever because I do think it will help the game, but I think it's weak.

I think teams should adjust. Learn how to hit the ball to the opposite field. Learn how to get on base when teams are shifting against you. That's my philosophy. So there's an article today on The Athletic, and it said that if they did this, it would basically get one more hit every five games. That sounds about right. Which is like, it's just not.

It's like, great, good call. I'd rather raise the strike zone above the knee. Yes, there are other things they can do rather than banning the ship. So before you get out of here, Gabe Kapler spoke today. Ooh. And I just want you to... What did Gabe have to say? Who do you think he likes more?

Okay? Judge it off these two quotes. Okay. I think Manny has done a tremendous job in his career of establishing a reputation of being one of the top young players in baseball. And I think he's in an incredible position to be able to choose from a wide variety of suitors at this point and I think wherever he goes somebody's going to be get going to get an incredible baseball player that's him on Manny Machado very pat this is him on Bryce Harper Bryce Harper does a number of things well but one of the things I found most interesting most

fascinating about him last year was even through the times of his struggles he still worked an incredible at bat so it wasn't like rolling over to the second baseman on the first pitch when he was struggling, although that happened from time to time. But when he struggled, he still put together a quality at bat. He still worked the pitcher. He still made the opposition uncomfortable. And sometimes he'd end that at bat with a walk, which I think there's a ton of value in that. Now, when he's going good, he's one of the most difficult players to get out in the game. And I love the way he plays. I think there's so much to like about what

Bryce Harper brings to the table, his play on the field, and then also what he brings to a clubhouse environment. I mean, one answer is like, yeah, I've heard Manny's a good player. Let me tell you about Bryce. Let me tell you about my friend Bryce. Let me tell you about this guy, who I love. I mean, come on. If you just want to

step back from all the BS that you hear and all that and just listen to what Gabe just said when asked about both players, I mean, I feel even more strongly that the Phillies are signing Bryce Harper. Yeah, and I wonder if Gabe's all in on Harper and Clem Dexmore and on Machado.

Ooh, that's interesting too. Maybe Machado. I mean, he's... Yeah, he's alright. People say he's good. Let me tell you about this guy I watch, Bryce Harper. He's so good. I'll tell you about everything I saw with my eyes. I loved it.

That's awesome. Bryce Harper and Gabe Kapler are going to be running the Rocky Steps together. The first day he signs here. It's going to be running the Rocky Steps together. The first day he signs here. It's going to be tremendous. Yeah, so listen, I have had many visions this week. I had a vision about interviewing Nick Pavetta on this podcast.

That's one thing that I've dreamt of. Well, let's make that happen. But the main thing I've dreamt of. I feel like that's very doable. The main thing I've dreamt of this entire week has just been Bumgarner Nola in a rally towel filled Citizens Bank Park in a playoff series. So that's where I'm at. I love it. That's where I'm at.

All right. Kevin Franzen's coming up. Kevin Franzen's coming up. Also, final thought, I guess. Listen, the holidays are coming up. It's a very... Oh, yeah. I like this.

I like where you're going here. It's a giving time. It's giving. It's time to give. Most people that listen to podcasts these days are 18 to 40. Not old. Let's say that. Not old.

Younger crew. I'm sure there are some wonderful older people listening. We appreciate you. Fathers like myself. Right. Fathers like you. An old person. I am.

I'm freaking old, man. I'm barely inside that window you just gave i know which is sad it makes me sad you're one day you're gonna not be here anymore oh god jesus let's go on the holidays and give me time i mean dying is great uh uh we want for the holiday season to give the gift of high hopes and obviously we can't do that i mean we can't go into your phones and and say download and subscribe the high hopes podcast but you the high hopes listener out there i know that the generation of people that like baseball are generally older you probably have relatives that love baseball guess what they're starting to get into iphones they're starting to get into

technology go into your relatives your uncles it's about the cheapest gift you can give it's a free it's a free gift it's a free gift go into the podcast app and say pops unk

gramps you're gonna love this great gramps maybe who knows they talk about baseball the right way they talk about baseball

the right way not play the game the right way it's the podcasting game yeah it's good and give give the gift of high hopes in the holiday season. I love this idea. Dad, like me, if you're out there, Grandpa, all those people, you'll love it.

We need you, the sons, the potential fathers as well. Yes, the millennials. But who have older fathers. Please, help us out. Just spread the word. Spread the word of High Hopes. High Hopes. I mean, we're talking about High Hopes here.

I feel like every time we do an episode of High Hopes, it's always in the holiday spirit. We're both very excited to talk about the Phillies at all times. It's nonstop. Jack is excited to text me about it 30 times a day. I left you messages yesterday. You did. Jack called me, said, don't answer.

I want to leave you a message, and then followed up with a text saying, let me know when you listen to my messages. Yes. And it was about this. Yes, it was. So give the gift of high hopes, and James Seltzer, go talk to your daughter that you did not name Bryce.

I didn't. And we will talk to you. I thought about it. We will. Listen, we are planning out. We'll be here. We're going to grind this work. I will figure it out.

Zoe will understand. It's an important time. And if not, I don't know. She needs to figure it out. It'll be here. We're going to grind this work. I will figure it out. Zoe will understand. It's an important time. And if not, I don't know. She needs to figure it out. It's the most important time of the season. And I need her to be on board. All right. Kevin Franzen coming up.

Share the gift of high hopes with your older relatives because we're fun and we'll make them enjoy it. And they want to like baseball too. Yeah. We like baseball. Boom. And they want to like baseball, too. Yeah. They like baseball.

Boom. Well, we are honored to have a current broadcaster of the Phillies, a newly minted Phillies broadcaster, Kevin Franson. I can't believe that when he came on the podcast last year that it would turn into this. It's a big moment for High Hopes. I mean, you were HighHopes endorsed early last year. Yeah, I appreciate that.

I don't know if it's so much an honor that I'm on, but the listeners get a chance to hear my crap for a little bit, so it's good. I mean, look, it's all opinion, right? It's all opinion-based. Well, that's what we do here at High Hopes. At High Hopes, we give people high-hoped opinions. Yeah, the highest of high hopes.

I get it. I get it. I get it. So, Kev, how are we feeling about this Phillies offseason so far? You, I know you really like the Gene Segura trade. You like giving up J.P. Crawford, who, listen, J.P., I still think has a high ceiling, but. Does he? Well, I think there's obviously talent there.

I mean, I think the bat was just a little bit too slow to really work at the major league level. Hands were just a little bit too slow. His swing is a little too loopy. And in the minor leagues, that. Where is that? What? I mean, you described it perfect, and that's why I'm just saying,

like, where does it, you know, come around? Well, you hope that he works hard and realizes that his swing's loopy. And I know he did that drill at the beginning of last year with Mailey to kind of speed up his hands. And then as the season went along, he kind of got away from that.

And the loopy swing was back. Listen, he's 24. I don't want to completely write off the guy's career. But if I have to give him up to get a guy like Gene Segura, it feels like a no-brainer for me. Absolutely. I 100% agree. And look, J.B. Crawford is a great kid.

It's not like you're bashing a kid because you're trading him. No, he's an asset that they use to get a guy that's going to – it made them already a better ball club. Already. Just putting him in that lineup makes them a better ball club. Why? He's a grinder, and he's a really good hitter to go with that, but he's a grinder.

And when you're a grinder at the plate, that could resonate through the entire lineup. Could is the big, big thing right there. we know they like the the pitches per plate appearance um i agree with that to an extent if those if those at bats don't end in in just absolute um a grinding of a bat or a hard hit ball then what is it, you know, you're seeing a couple pitches go by that might be, you know, right there in the middle cut of the plate just to see a pitch. So a guy like Gene Segura is aggressive, but he's aggressive in the strike zone.

There's certain people that you could see that doesn't phase when they're getting a two-strike situation, and he's one of those guys. So with that at the plate, it's a huge – for me, it's a huge upgrade over J.B. Crawford. You're losing out Carlos Santana who, look, didn't produce what everyone wanted him to produce. 110 walks, 24 homers. That's hard to – that's going to be hard to substitute for. Yeah, I mean, he walked more than he struck out last year. That's hard to just replace.

It's an incredible thing to do. Especially in today's game. Exactly. I mean, you look at his Wobo, what was it, like a.334? And I think that, to me, was a big thing for him. And defensively, he was sneaky over there. He's a good first baseman. Yeah, he had one week last

year where he made four errors and it kind of threw out his and they're all throws yeah they're all throws and and reese hoskins i love reese hoskins i'm glad he's back at first base but if we think he's going to be like a cat over there or like santana was over there it's just not going to be the case absolutely i agree with that 100 uh look i that's the one thing i just don't want to make sure is that you don't carlos santana was good i mean he was a he was a lightning rod for so many phillies fans right i mean oh my god it was a meltdown it but at the same time you gotta step back and look at the whole thing the big picture that dude was pretty good uh for the entire season he had a brutal april but I've personally witnessing it and

playing and witnessing while playing, I've never seen anyone rob more in my life in that first month than a Carlos Santana. With that being said, this one move for Gene Segura I think absolutely has the ripple effect through the entire team, which makes them

better. And bringing Reese, like look, you know what the worst part about playing left field is? The run out there every time. The run. Seriously. Now you're looking at Citizens Bank Park, and Reese all he's going to do is walk to first base. That's it.

Save his legs. That's a big thing. You want your slugger to have his legs all year. People think I'm joking on that. I think it's a huge deal because you're you're moving around but it's like little movements at first base you get tired but you don't you play left field you're standing around you gotta sprint into the gap yeah it's like it's the start and stop it's like the uh the left fielder is like playing uh wide receiver every

i don't know five or six plays yeah? You're going out for a pass now. Okay, now you're going to block. Now you're going to be out for a couple plays. Now you're back in. You know, at first base, you're always in the action. So, for me, getting Reese locked in like that I think is great. I saw him obviously a year ago when he was going, you know, between left and first base.

He's got good actions at first. So, I'm not really nervous about that um adding gene at shortstop makes them better it's just gonna be what happens with scott kingery what happens with cesar what happens with michael like it's so uh there there's so many question marks because you don't know you know which route they're gonna go because this one move made a lot of things be able to happen yeah do you think now you just mentioned how left field with Hoskins do you think it's going to lead to even more offensive production at first base you think that's a thing uh I mean who knows because for me

I gotta tell you playing one position in one position that you're comfortable at can absolutely make your mind go to you know at ease you're not worried you know, we talked about this last year with Scott Kingery, right? Yep. When he was moving around so much. And people don't want to use an excuse. It's true. You don't want to be the negative on the defensive side. You don't want to embarrass yourself.

You don't want to, you know, be a, so your mind, a lot of your mind goes to that defensive purpose, right? You don't, your extra work, all that stuff and everything at the plate, it, it, I'm not saying doesn't matter, but it doesn't hold the same as, as trying to not embarrass yourself at a position you've never played. And so with that being said, if you play a spot that you're comfortable at, and now you don't feel like you have to do the added work there to get caught up and you can get into normal routines and not worry about, okay, where am I?

It just becomes second nature plays. I do think that your offensive production could go up. Look, Reese was unbelievable in spurts last year, right? And then he had those moments, and i feel like in those moments too were were kind of with the the outfield struggles at times and you wonder you take that little pressure off him oh my gosh you talk about in a bat that that dude puts up i i don't know about you even in his struggles i didn't i haven't seen him give away in a bat no i mean there was a couple times last year where he was just so frustrated

he was trying to force it, and I think that led to it. But that's not giving away in a bat. No. I mean, even when he's struggling, I will say he works the pitchers, and he just, you know, sometimes hitters don't make contact. That's why hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. But it's one of those things. He would see, how many times would he see like eight pitches in that bat?

Yeah. You punch out, you're going, ah-ha-ha, all right. It makes sense. I would say that Reese is one of those guys that you watch him, and you can actually see him start to figure it out mid-at-bat. And you could feel a Reese Hoskins breakout coming, which is fun to watch. You know when he does kind of like the hammer thing every once in a while with his bat?

Like he'll have it on his shoulder and he'll kind of just like fling it out a little bit? Yep. He'll have it on his shoulder and he'll kind of just fling it out a little bit in between pitches. I feel like when you see that go a little bit almost like a quicker one, you're going ha ha, that's his tell. I got him. You know?

I agree. And if you can get him back, if you can get him just to be consistent for 162 and not go into two three week longweek-long swoons, I mean, you're getting a Paul Goldschmidt-like guy. For sure. For sure. I mean, people forget he's only 25.

Like, Reese Hoskins. Dude, it's unbelievable. Well, because he acts older. He has an old soul to him. Yeah. Right? And when you talk to him and he's he's more mature than uh myself and uh you know franski included uh combined right yeah uh definitely with la i mean we all know

the maturity level with with la so uh he's more mature than all of us it's weird but i just want i want like is that natural yes and it's sometimes you're just like, dude, I wish you could just be a kid at times. But that's good for the face of the franchise. Oh, my God, yes. Yeah. He is perfect for it. He is. I've yet to find a negative on Reese Hoskins because everyone's like,

oh, his left field sucks. And you're like, no, I just see Reese Hoskins out there. I see him doing his early work and doing all that stuff, and he cares where I'm like, I can't throw a negative on it. Like, I just see Reese Hoskins out there. I see him doing his early work and doing all that stuff, and he cares, where I'm like, I can't throw a negative on it. Like, I'm just sorry. The guy works his butt off. He cares. He doesn't take a day for granted.

I mean, look, he's a Northern California kid. What else can I expect? You know what I mean? That's where all the studs are from. Yeah. Well, no. I mean, you know, all the Pennsylvania, we all know is the quarterback.

We all get it. The greatest ever in Joe Montana comes from there. So, anyway. Ben Marino. Yeah. That's Western PA, though. Bradshaw.

You can go all this stuff. We know Pennsylvania quarterback. Although Southeastern PA baseball, it's pretty good. I mean, they produced me. Look where I am now. Oh, you suck. I do suck. Well, it's pretty good. I mean, they produced me. Look where I am now. Oh, you suck. I do suck.

Well, I was good for what I was in my age group, you know? Yeah, there you go. I played division, too. It's good enough. Most people can't say that. No. No. Still can't get you out.

There's no chance. So Gene Segura, a lot of people talk about how he's like a bad clubhouse guy. Do you think that's true? No, I don't think so. The reason why people think that is why, because he's been traded to so many teams. Yeah. I think from talking to some buddies that have played with him, and I've played against him, the guy, he doesn't play with a lot of emotion.

There's times where you'll see it. So that's very much like Carlos Santana, right? Even Kiel goes out and does his job. There's not a lot of, I don't know, like showing up early, early to go do things. He knows exactly what he needs to do, so he goes into the clubhouse when he needs to and gets out and goes to do BP and then goes in. You know what I mean? There's not a lot of eye wash for him.

So certain people that work, certain people that doesn't, and it just depends on who you're with. Gene Secura is a damn good baseball player. He makes your team better. Where would you bat him? You know, I honestly have no idea in the because there's so much more to happen right there's so much more that's going to happen this offseason so you know he's a he's a great two-hole hitter um he kind of feels like a two-hole hitter i mean if you lead

him off you're fine i mean he like let's say they get to a point where it's you know uh scott and him you can go either one being one or two in the lineup. I'm fine with that because I think regular bats from Scott Kingery playing second base would be great. Now, if it's Cesar, Cesar showed at times last year that he is one of the best leadoff hitters in the game, seeing pitches, walking, stealing a couple bases, having some pop. So they got a lot of different things.

I would hit him in the two-hole. I want your guys in front to be able to see pitches before a guy that's going to battle with two strikes, foul pitches off, and he's going to do that. Yeah, and two-hole, hopefully he has a higher chance of getting on base, moving the leadoff hitter along if he gets on base. Yeah. And then you have, hopefully, Harper or Machado, Hoskins behind them. It's kind of like adding Placido Polanco to the Tujol back in 2011.

You have a guy like that who can hit for a high average. The OVP's not great, but he moves guys along. That dude scored up every ball. He really did. He really did. And I see the same kind of thing from Segura. Yeah. I mean, Segura is not going to hit 25 homers, but he's going to hit 50.

Really? Dude, okay. Hold on. How bad is it to hit in Safeco? Is Safeco hard to hit? Oh, it's tough. Yeah. It's tough.

You become more of a doubles type of guy there. But I'm not saying Arizona is Citizens Bank, but you can relate the two. Right? There's a lot of relation between there. The one year in Arizona, and he had 41 doubles and I want to say 20 homers. He hit close to 320, I think. So, yeah, he can put up 20, 25. I do believe that because at Citizens Bank, the way he hits,

it's not a lot of stuff to center. I mean, he will hit stuff to center, but his power is to the gap or to left. Or if he went down the right field line, we've seen the ball travel at Citizens Bank to right. I mean, so being a spray hitter but with the ability to elevate and hit the ball in the gap, you know, get the extra bases, to me this is a perfect move. Do you like the approach the Phillies are kind of taking

in players that are evaluating this offseason? I mean, Segura last year was the fourth hardest guy to strike out in baseball, at like 10-something, 0.7% of at-bats. Another guy they have interest in is Michael Brantley, who was the second hardest guy to strike out in baseball last year. Love Michael Brantley. Dude, I mean, if they add Segura and Brantley, you're adding two 300-hitters. That resonates. There's that ripple effect, dude.

You can go one after the other and see how you know the the line keeps on moving you don't really have that regression in anything and guys pick up uh you know i'm not because we saw with paul goldschmidt too we've seen it all along he struck out a lot early on this year yeah and then and then you could see the contact going up he still struck out a lot for himself this year. But he takes chances. And those chances that he would take, you could sense that, like, okay, two strikes, I have a lot more confidence now because there's guys in front of me.

As they got healthier, the Dimebacks, he started producing more, right? Because there's that ripple effect. He didn't have to carry everything. Well, I think that's the same thing for Reese. Reese that ripple effect. He didn't have to carry everything. Well, I think that's the same thing for Reese. Reese could do that. He doesn't have to do everything. The moment he feels like he has to do everything, that's when everything goes.

So, you know, a guy like Segura, a guy like Brantley, adding into that lineup, if that were the case, makes Reese a better hitter. Even though he's a good hitter, it's a better hitter because of that two-strike approach. He doesn't have to feel like, I got to go, you know, I can maybe shorten up. Remember early in the year, you and I were talking about it over, just through the line, when we were calling games in Atlanta.

He had like two or three hits down the right field line with two strikes. He had one, he lined out in Tampa to right field with two strikes. And I told him the next day, I'm like, dude, that right there will lock you in. And he went off on that. And not because of what I said at all. I think it's because of what he said. No, it's not. But I'm saying, like, what I was telling him was that he stayed on that pitch.

And there was something about it that just, like that just absolutely was mind-blowing to me. And he did it. He took it over to Atlanta. And then he went to the next series. I'm going, oh, my God. All right. It has nothing to do with, like, oh, I got to just put the ball in play. No, hey.

No. He had an approach where he wasn't giving away right field. And I feel like if they get those type of hitters, right, that could drive the baseball. But with two strikes, they take a little bit out, but they don't give up much. That's good. I don't want guys striking out.

More guys strike out, that whole phenomenon to me, the more guys strike out, it just makes me more and more frustrated. Yeah, I mean, strikeouts are great for a pitcher, but aesthetically pleasing-wise, it's not great. And if you're looking to build a lineup, when I was watching the Dodgers last year and when I was watching the Yankees in the playoffs, I was trying to get in the mode of watching the Phillies

in the same kind of scenario because— They strike out a ton. Right, and I was watching the Phillies last year and it seemed like a mini version of the Dodgers and Yankees and when the Dodgers and Yankees got to the playoffs and yes I know the Dodgers made the World Series but that for me was more of the NL was weaker and and whatnot for me when it gets to the playoffs it's easier to get out a lineup full of guys trying to do the launch angle thing too much because then you can you can fit 98 up in the zone all day long and they can't catch up to it and it's not consistent enough.

During the regular season, it's perfectly fine to have guys just want to hit home runs the whole time because most often than not, home runs will lead to wins in the regular season. But when things get nitty-gritty in the postseason, you see teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Indians, even the Rays for a lot of last year. A lot of it had to do with they were moving guys along and kind of playing baseball the traditional way.

And the fact that the Phillies, it seems like they're changing their offensive philosophy a little bit here and not being okay with strikeouts, I think is important for me because I think the game is changing again right in front of our eyes. Yeah, and baseball is cyclical, right? Everything's going to come back to something. And for me, yeah, you're going to take chances at times. There needs to be chances taken.

You're going to strike out. I wish I would have done that a lot more in my career where I took chances instead of just putting the ball in play. I have always believed, and I go back to my 14 playoff experience with the Nationals against the Giants. We were a team that dominated throughout the year, but we were terrible at getting guys over, getting guys in, runner second and third, one out, whatever,

just at least getting something in there. Everyone was trying to get the three-run home run or drive in both guys instead of just getting that one yeah i feel like we got beat at the game of baseball in that playoff series because the giants were a team that did that throughout the year that's what they were known to do uh you know lead off double get a guy over get a guy in and you know what it doesn't always have to be that way but if you work on it and you're good at it during the regular season, for sure it's going to happen in the postseason because you have practiced that, because you have been like that throughout the year.

Now, if you're a team that's like, oh, we're just going to homer, and if we strike out, we strike out, whatever, when you get to the postseason, that adjustment isn't going to be made right there. Not at all. Not going to happen. Yeah. So you had, what, six guys? I want to say six guys had over 100 strikeouts last year from the offense.

They had one guy in your boy in Altair that had 91. That's a lot for a guy that barely played. Yeah, and Andrew Knapp had 75. That's not good. That's not good. And the incredible thing, guy to me that was ridiculous not even with two strikes but not striking out was was franco and you're going all the free swing and all this stuff like that dude actually had 22 bombs and he only struck out

62 times you would have thought that he would have had the high number of like 155 he had the highest batting average in the team last year. Yep. Which is insane. Which, well, is it? Well, it's just like. No, no, no. But I'm saying, is it? When you look at those numbers, 138, 93, 150. You could say eight guys because Santana had 93.

138, 93, 155, 126, 150, 122, 111, and 62. Those are your top eight guys that had at-bats last year. Right. Those are the strikeout numbers. Yeah. That's nuts. And I don't think that's a good philosophy for an offensive approach. And I just think –

But you know what? What? It's fine if there's an adjustment made, right? So now they've gathered this data. They've seen it right there firsthand what works. And they're making, for me, which I love, is they're making a huge adjustment. I think that's a great thing. So many organizations, and we've seen it with the Dodgers.

We've seen it with the Yankees where they just continue to do the same thing. Strike out a ton, and you know what I mean? Yeah. And go on. So there's no adjustments in what happens. Losses end up happening in the postseason. Not wins, but losses. The Astros, the Indians, the Red Sox,

the hardest, you know, three of the four hardest teams to strike out in the game, they were there for a reason. And we saw it with the Red Sox at the end. Look, they were the best team all year from spring training on. But they held serve on everything. They were good at every little thing. They were good at not striking out at the right times, right? I mean, it was just the grinder approach at bat.

Yeah, and it feels like the Phillies are kind of going that way, and I'm impressed that after one year they realized that, listen, I think this is the way the game's going, Kev. I think the game is going back towards almost the traditional way of playing, and for the Phillies not to get completely locked in on the launch angle movement and all that stuff I think was a great sign. And next year, realistically, you could be looking at Kingery, Segura, Harper, Hoskins, Brantley as your top five.

I mean, that's a win. That's a win. Moving a lot of guys on base, a bunch of hits. Like that's a good offensive. Hitting is contagious, right? Yeah, I completely agree. Hitting is contagious. And if you're not hitting the ball and putting it in play,

how does hitting become contagious? Look, I'm not trying to say they need to just be like, again, two strikes. Oh, got it. I'm going to run down to first. All right, I didn't strike out. No, no, no. They can still do damage. You can still do damage.

The greatest player in my mind and many people's minds in the Bay Area is Barry Bonds. Outside of the Bay Area, he's not. We get that. Well, I mean, Harold Baines is in the Hall of Fame, and he's not. We can have a – dude, really. Seriously. It took this long for Lee Smith to get in, which pisses me off. But he got in finally.

I'm so pumped. Anyway, I have a long story off air that we could talk about what he would do and he would celebrate, and this was in 2005 when I asked him this. But anyway, where was I? Oh, yeah. Bonds and two-strike approach. He choked up.

And people think that choking up is such a bad thing as far as like, oh, it's going to take away power. No, the dude choked up and still had the most insane power. You get back control with choking up. And it quickens your hands. That's it. Does that mean that you take out swing? No.

You just choked up. That's it. You could still take your same swing, choke up, two strikes, give yourself a little bit more back control. That's not that hard. That is one of the biggest things that I would say. Maile's done a great job with those hitters in getting them different thinking, you know, for the most part.

I do think, though, personally, with two strikes, you choke up just a little bit, give me something, give me a little change. Mikey did that. He was doing that with two strikes, you choke up just a little bit. Give me something. Give me a little change. Mikey did that. He was doing that with two strikes. Yeah, for a little bit there he was. So I'm just going to say that for me, that is a simple adjustment where you're not changing swing.

You just say, hey, just give me a little choke. Do you think it's going to take a year? Do you think last year was the more implementation of Maylee's kind of system, and this year you expect guys to really feel comfortable in it? Yeah, because there's no question of what's going on. What are we going to be doing? What is his thought? And you know who he is.

You've had a year with him. You know who he is. That's a big thing. Yeah, because I was – I'm going to be honest, I was frustrated with a lot of May Lee's stuff last year. No one really got that much better last year. And there was a lot of increased strikeouts, but I

don't want to completely write it off because I've read a lot of stuff about May Lee and he's well regarded around the game and he helped build the Astros offense and the Cubs offense and all that stuff. So I don't want to completely write him off. Yeah, one year doesn't do much. So even for a hitting coach? I mean, it's a hitting coach.

How much does a hitting coach do really? More than anything, he is there for a vibe. You want a positive guy that's always up, has that energy that has you thinking like you're king kong walking out of the cage before you go into to a game yeah uh you know for the most part they're all they're psychologists right for the most part yeah some people are psychiatrists you're right but but but the but the fact of the matter is they are all with the mental side for me if you know you're in the big leagues

for a reason you've gotten there for a reason I think more than anything his stuff needs to be implemented in the minor leagues it sucks that all the the great minor league hitting coaches are gone that I love more than anything in in with the Philadelphia Phillies and one being Sal Rendy who to me was a one of the most phenomenal hitting coaches because he got your mind clear. He got your mind exactly how it's supposed to be at the plate. Thoughtless, right? Yeah.

And so it's hard to see with that. But with that being said, the moment that everyone that comes up to the big leagues understands that this is how it's going to be done, like they have the whole same hitting philosophy all the way throughout, I think will make everything easier. Now, I mean, you can't say that they've gotten worse, truly, because the pitching on the other side in a year has gotten insane. Yeah.

Right? In almost like a two-year span, we're looking at one of the like progressions in pitchers just in general with stuff with velocity with sliders with the off-speed stuff break you know i mean it's unbelievable what we got going yeah yeah i it's fair i i was just saying i know it's fair i was mostly what i said there i know i was just mostly frustrated with maylee but i i agree that that's the thing though is it like he can't really do that much i got you he's not the one that's in the box i know no i know and so there's so many and he had a guy like let's say scott kingery right who's who's fighting himself more than anything and you know

males isn't trying to do the physical stuff he's trying to to get his mind right. So that's the stuff that I feel like more than anything, the outside world doesn't understand because everyone wants to put a blame on everyone. We always get that, right? Yeah. It doesn't matter what sport. It doesn't matter even what business. There's always a blame. And so he was the easy one.

For me, he had such a tough job in trying to make sure that some guys didn't fall off the edge on this whole thing. They didn't jump. It's hard to explain without the – I don't know. I guess I'm better in person on that one, explaining a hitting coach because there's so much – I'm doing all these motions with my hands and all this. No, I understand what you're saying.

I'm glad that they're – I was just more worried that the offensive approach was going to get played out of baseball. And I just think that they've changed that this offseason. So I'm willing – I'm fine. I'm good with Mailey. There was points last year where I did get a little frustrated. But that's fine. Kingery, so next year, do you really want him being a super utility

Chris Taylor kind of guy, or would you rather him just be penciled in at second base and kind of move Cesar for what you can get? It's a tough one because we're seeing all around the game, if you have a guy, a Brock Holt, a Chris Taylor, a Ben Zobrist, if you have a guy like that so beneficial to you. Yeah, very valuable. So as an organization

you would love to be able to move Scott around but again if there was a year where I'm like if he could play just second base and you know not worry about the defensive side and just go and hit and just have that success hitting

throughout the entire season, now we can start thinking about different roles, right? And that's a big thing. You bring up a young guy and doing a lot of different things. Look, a kid's going to come in and say, I'll do anything to play. I'm in the big leagues. Yeah, for sure. I'll do this.

I'll do that. But in hindsight you have to like talk to the guy and understand that all he's done for the most part of his life is play one spot so uh i would like to see him at second if they if they were to because i love cesar so i'm a big cesar hernandez fan uh so if they were to move him, if that was the case, then I would love to see Scott at second base every day. Now, if they don't, I mean, he's so valuable to the team being able to play every spot. He just needs to have a bat in his hands.

He needs to hit. He needs to be consistent in getting that. So there's a lot of different scenarios. Cesar's made himself a good amount of money because he's a damn good player. He's a valuable player. He's so much... At times, I would love to see him be the one that moves around.

He is so athletic, dude. Unfortunately, it just feels like they kind of missed their window to trade him, and this year, the second base market is flooded. But see, that's the one thing I feel like that not a lot of people understand about him is how athletic he is i like i really thought that he would have been moved out to center field for a long time right yeah there was that little period where he was trying it out and they were trying it out and i was like dude they could make this

because he could run he's got great instincts know, center field, you would love to see that. He's got a great arm. He can play shortstop. You know, so for me, he is so valuable to this team. Again, there is so – there was a lot of guys on that team that were very emotionless, right? Yeah. And a lot of position players that were like that. I want to see some more fire.

I want to see some more, like, just to see some more like just, you know, you're not going to change guys, but if they bring in some guys, I want to see some fire. I want to see some love. I want to see some outward emotion from these guys. And it's not about riding the roller coaster on this whole thing. They need a Franzen. Yeah, absolutely.

No, for sure. I mean, I could play still. I went, you know, what, one for two in my alumni game. Hadn't picked up a bat in two years. Oh, look at that. Oh, yeah. No, for sure. I mean, I could play still. I went one for two in my alumni game. Hadn't picked up a bat in two years. Oh, look at that. Oh, yeah, dude. So good. I was sore for a week. But anyway, that's not the case. The case that I'm going to point out here is

if this team were exciting emotionally, right? You don't have to live and die on just screaming and yelling. there's just like that right that that emotion of love that you have for the game that's out there every single day fans are coming fans are going to be at that game yeah but if you're if you're going to be playing emotionless baseball uh whether it's good or bad it's hard to get behind. So just one of those things that I hope they see as bringing in is a good thing.

All right, so please explain to Philadelphia why they should be going after Madison Bumgarner. Why should they be going after him? I just think he's – There's a lot of negativity when you bring up Madison Bumgarner and wanting to go after him. All they see is stats. They see his – or they see his dip in velocity.

They see, you know, not the crazy strikeout numbers. Why should they bring over Madison Bumgarner? Because you don't have Madison Bumgarner. You don't have one in your organization. You don't have a guy that has – we're on a podcast that has the balls of Madison Bumgarner. Right? Right.

He has an attitude that he brings. He pitches with emotion. He pitches with snot rockets. Him versus Joe West. Yeah. Always great. Which I was the first baseman in that game. Little side note, I was kind of weirded out by the whole thing.

He is the perfect guy, I've said all said all along look is arinola an ace yes is arinola young absolutely do you want him starting game one yeah i'm fine with it for sure but if you have a guy like madison there you take that little added pressure off of him off of arinola because you're like we'll put that on in Madison right yep uh and so for me the preparation that he does everything that he does to get ready I think would be huge there needs to be um you know a different type of leader in that clubhouse at times and and for me that Madison will bring that do you think he'll bring that uh he but to me'll bring that? But to me, he's not like the energy kind of guy that you were just talking about. He's more of a

hold accountable kind of leader. He's a hold accountable, but when you see him pitch and there's a lot of like, you know, snapping back at the ball and doing, that's emotion. That's some, you know, that's something that you see that there's a passion behind what he's wanting to do, that he wants to be better, you know, or he be better. Or he expects to do better when he's out there. There's a different – man, who would he be like more than anything? Like Lester? Yeah. Yeah.

I would say Lester is a good one. Yeah, I think he's going to age a lot like Lester. Like CeCe, Lester, they all had very similar age 29 seasons and Baumgartner unfortunately had the he had the ball that Whit Merrifield hit off him that broke his hand and he wasn't he wasn't healthy all year right and people really want to know it's not about not healthy he just was not the same he didn't have the same strength so what I want to ask you is is so from spring training last year you talked about a lot. He was 93 to 95 and looked like Madison Bumgarner and people in the Giants organization.

And actually better than Madison Bumgarner. Right. The people in the Giants organization were saying, this guy's going to have a breakout season at age 29. Ball off the hand, comes back, he's throwing 91. What did you see when he came back versus what you saw in spring training? Something was so free and easy during spring training that was just, you sat back and you're just laughing.

You're like, ooh, this is going to be a rough one for the West because it was so effortless. And when he came back, there was a lot of effort in trying to throw the 91, right? Yep. It was effortless 93, came back all effort 91 uh that to me he just he was tired of sitting around he was uh chomping at the bit he was you know dave gresham the the trainer here in san francisco is amazing uh but at some point he was just like i can't handle this like he just

he's got to get out there you know and and uh it wasn't going to hurt him but it just wasn't it definitely wasn't going to have the same stuff yeah and i when i was watching him just from my sort of untrained eye was uh he couldn't get into righties at the end of last year he was 91 he didn't trust himself to get in and major league hitters catch up to 91 over the middle of the plate like if you can you can't get in... Yeah, there was nothing going on. There was no movement, nothing. So, yeah, he was struggling on that. Right-handed hitters were, for the first time in my watching Madison,

I've known him since he was 18 years old, he gives you that trepidation going into the batter's box. He didn't do that last year. No. And it was because, A, his stuff was down. He just didn't look like it. And his grunting and all that was actually grunting to try to get that extra, not grunting to try to get you off of it.

Right? Because certain guys can do it just based on, oh, if I grunt right here, they might think it said this, and it's not. Yeah. I mean, Jamie Moyer was famous for that. He would throw like 82. Dude, he owned me. He would jam me at like 80.

Well, when you're used to sitting, when you're used to sitting, I guess, what, 93? Dude, it's so weird because he was like, sit back, sit back, sit back. No, it's too late. Yeah, I would be very frustrated facing Jamie Moyer. Yeah. But yeah, I just, listen, you played with him. You know him better than i do but if i had to bet on a guy to figure out how to pitch at 91 if that's really where he's at right now

i think madison bumgarner's a guy that figures out how to pitch at 91 yeah yeah i mean he dude i'm telling you he part of the deal is why he was so far down last year was he was throwing more sinkers he eliminated his four-seamer. And the four-seamers that made him so great. Yeah, because it was sneaky. Because he would throw from behind lefties the way his arm angle is. He completely eliminated it. And, you know, teams hit, what, 306 on his sinker last year.

And that's not good, you know. And when you're just becoming – he almost just became a cutter guy. You can't just become a cutter guy. No. You can't. You can't. Yeah, especially with how he was throwing it. It just doesn't work. No.

All right, last one before I let you get out of here. Harper Machado. Harper. Yeah, I mean – You need a lefty in that lineup, and for me, it just makes sense. And what was he like as a teammate? I thought he was great. He'd be great for the clubhouse, all that fun stuff?

Yeah. He's your perfect guy for the situation, what they need. And I could go on and on and on about him, but I think everyone knows I just think that he would be the right fit for this situation because of what he would do to that lineup. Yeah, I mean, if you add Harper, you add Brantley, you add Segura. Even if you added Pollock. Right.

Pollock worries me just because of the injury stuff, and Brantley does as well, but Pollock, it just feels like every year it's something. The OVP isn't great. I like Pollock a lot. He's a good baseball. He's a winning baseball player. He is. There's a reason why the Diamondbacks are good when he's healthy.

Yeah, I mean, him and Brantley to me are just beautiful baseball players. So why don't you get both of them? Well, because we've got a Dupal in center field. Okay, just asking. I'm just throwing it out there. If you get both of them, I mean, hey. Yeah, I mean, we're going to spend stupid money. So that could be one of it.

When he said that, I loved it. Yeah, but it did kind of feel like it gave agents the ability to put the Phillies in every single thing. You know what it said to me? We're back. Hey, man. We're spending. I hope so. I love it.

I hope so. And I hope he backs it up and honestly the fact that he didn't give patrick corbin six years 140 was big for me it quelled a lot of my fears because no doubt that contract i i just don't think it's going to age well at all he had one great year one great great year the other years were good yeah they weren't great. And he had a major innings jump this year. See, that's the biggest thing is that, like, a guy, I mean, there's so many different things. I think giving contracts to pitchers is tough in general just because

For sure. There's no, you know, right science-based thing on this whole thing. It's all luck. Yeah. All based on this whole thing. It's all luck. All based on injury. If I had to pick one of these two to age better into their mid-30s, I'm picking Bumgarner over Corbin. And for me, that's the most important thing when you're

going into this offseason. Because, listen, I don't think they're going to win the World Series next year, but you hope that within the next five years, they do have the ability to win a World Series. and you need to have guys who are going to be there and be around for that. I'm banking on Baumgartner instead of Corbin. That's why your podcast is badass.

Thanks, man. You're the best. Kevin Franson, congrats on the job. I'm very excited. Dude, I'm so pumped. Oh, man. I know Franski's like, oh, God. He's probably fine.

No, he's awesome. He's awesome. I'm so fired up and just thankful for the opportunity because I love baseball and I love the Phillies. So more than anything, it's going to be just fun just to talk baseball and Phillies all year. Yeah, and I was – I mean, selfishly, I was very excited that you got the job. I actually talked to you.

That's why. I know. I know. So big moment for the iHost podcast. Big moment for the friends and family. And even a bigger moment for the Philadelphia Phillies. Kevin, we will have you on again soon. Thanks as always for hopping on. I'll talk to you soon.

That's going to do it for this episode of High Hopes. Shout out to Kevin Franson. Congratulations on the new gig for joining the program and officially endorsing High Hopes. Just kidding. He didn't do that. But in my mind, he did. James and I will be back, hopefully with an emergency Bryce Harper or Manny Machado podcast.

If not, we will be back to break down any kind of deal the Phillies make this week. Check out the feed. Download. Subscribe. Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes at High Hopes Pod. You to the podcast on iTunes at High Hopes Pod. You can follow us on Twitter at High Hopes Pod. James at James Seltzer and me at Jack Fritz WIP. Another fun episode.

And again, spread high hopes this holiday season. It's the least we can do. All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game

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