High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The High Hopes Phillies Podcast: Trout Spurns Philly and Harper Homers

Episode Date: March 22, 2019

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back as Mike Trout picks LA, Harper finally homers and should they extend Realmuto ASAP? See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Add your teen to your Uber account today. This is the High Hopes Podcast. I hope. It's a bunch of baseball nerds. Well, without the computers. Talking about the Philadelphia Phillies on Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast. I am James

Seltzer and I am here with a surprisingly down Jack Fritz. What's wrong, buddy? I'm good. You're in a mood. I got an in a mood Fritz with me today. It's Friday. Look at this. We're both wearing our High Hope shirts like a couple of nerds. I know. It's pretty cool.

I know. You're like so down. What's going on, buddy? It's Friday. It's not. I understand it's Friday. I was going to wait until later in the pod to do this, but we're going to pick Jack up a little bit.

Happy birthday, buddy. You got me something in the middle of the podcast? Happy birthday present. Look at this. It's heavy. Yeah. I think you can probably guess what it is. Same thing you got me for my birthday. Oh, nice. Some beer. I got you some beer.

Harper Lentz over. A little boom sauce for my guy. I do love boom sauce. It's a great beer. It's a very good beer. Thank you, buddy. I got you, buddy. Look at that. A little happier now? I wish I could drink it now. Yeah. Well, hey. All right. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Okay.

Let me just get this podcast started off right. I feel like I haven't been myself the last minute and a half. Yeah, I know. A little nervous about you. The reason why I'm so down is I feel so bad for Julio Tehran. I really, I just don't think he knows. Your heart goes out to him. I just, I just, the poor guy, the poor guy has no idea what's about to hit him on opening

day. I mean, it's just the poor, first off, Jul has no idea what's about to hit him on opening day. I mean, it's just, the poor, first off, Julio Tehran's already bad. Yes, confirmed.

And the fact that Bryce Harper owns him, the fact that Bryce Harper's guy's timing down, the fact that J.C. Romito is batting 412 in spring training and has an OPS of like 1200.

He's got a slugging percentage of 850. Yeah. It's a slugging percentage. The fact that Andrew McCutcheon has a career on-base percentage at a leadoff spot of like 420-something.

Sorry, Julio. The fact that Gene Segura struck out 69 times all of last year in the two-hole. Julio, buddy, just give it up. Oh, and then we have Harper

who is just starting to get... who owns you and owns opening day. And then you have Hassan's behind him. It gets just... And then Real Muto. It's not fair.

I'm just so sorry. I mean, poor guy. I just... And his name's Julio. I mean, that's tough to begin with. It's not fair. I'm just so sorry. I mean, poor guy. And his name's Julio. I mean, that's tough to begin with. My heart goes out to Julio. People probably call him Julio all the time. It's tough. My heart goes out to Julio Tehran.

It's very kind of you. Yeah, it's the least I could do. You know who our heart does not go out to, Jack? Mike Trout, man. Can we, let's start there. Let's start there. Because if you want to have a reason to be in a bummed out mood, I think every single person who listens to this fine podcast knows how we felt about the Mike Trout future here.

It hurts. It's over, Jack. Yeah, it's over. What a devastating, I had to read the breaking news on the air during the midday show. I can't believe you did that. I couldn't believe I got it out. I was almost in tears, Jack. Yeah, and listen, I'll never rip him for getting his money like whatever i'm not i don't even want

to rip mike trout i'm not ripping him it's just that it's not that i'm mad i'm just kind of disappointed i'm sad i'm not mad i'm sad like i just thought he was different um i thought he was i really i really i i did think he was different and listen he's not gonna get bryce harper is who we thought mike trout was he's not gonna get if you boo mike trout you're embarrassing i totally agree but like it's 130 million dollars all right he would have gotten more in the open market agree but two years away injury you say here's 430 million dollars everyone alive is taking it. Right. I agree. I totally agree. I'm just saying that now at Eagles games, it's going to be, oh, there's Mike Trout. It's not as cute anymore.

Rather than, oh, please, Mike, come home. He's just Bradley Cooper now. He's just Bradley Cooper. I think Bradley's more Philly than Mike Trout is. Let's be real here. At least he's from here. Oh, buddy. I'm not wrong.

I love how the moment this happened millville somehow became further away from philadelphia oh it's like 40 miles away you didn't know it's not philly come on well the the thing i was waiting for it was he's practically from philly the thing i was waiting for was the uh the thing i was waiting for was people be like he's not even that good thank you at least people were smart enough to not go down that road. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he just looked foolish. Listen, I'm not pissed off at Mike Trout, whatever.

If there's not a part of you that's disappointed that Mike Trout's never going to play here, then I question your fandom. There has to be a part of you that's like, man, I really thought Mike Trout was going to play here one day. And the fact that he's not, it hurts a little bit. But I'll say this. Thank freaking God we got Bryce Harper. Thank...

My number one takeaway from the whole thing is, can you imagine if we didn't get Bryce Harper? Dude, with all the... Oh my God! I mean, we would be despondent. Oh, it would be the worst month of my life. Yeah! I mean, not only are they not going to get Mike Trout now, if they didn't get Harper,

look at all the extensions that are happening in baseball. It's extension fever! Everyone's getting him. Chris Sale's signing one today, apparently. extensions that are happening in baseball. It's extension fever. Everyone's getting them. Chris Sale's signing one today, apparently. Apparently, they're very close now. That's another one. Goldschmidt extension. I mean, everybody.

Nice prices for some of these. I mean, that Alex Bregman extension is like, really? Yeah. Six years, $120 million for a guy who's not even 25 yet and is one of the best players in baseball? Yeah. No, it's crazy the amount of... And here's where I'm at. On one hand, it does probably hurt the players' union that these guys are signing contracts

and not hitting the open market. Effectively, the owners have killed free agency because of how little they've spent and how scared... The players are scared. That's absolutely what it is. The players are scared in general, and then with a new CBA on the horizon, they're even more scared because of the unknown.

When you're looking at Dallas Keuchel and Craig Kimbrell, who are both, who have been top five of their position. They're all-star, guys who have made all-star teams before. And one's a Hall of Fame closer, probably. If you believe in such things, but go ahead. The other's three years removed from a Cy Young, and he's only 31 years old. So I understand why the players are scared,

and it is annoying kind of that the owners have suppressed the market to that point. On the other hand, I really do think it's cool that these guys are going to play a majority of their career in one place. I think that's good for the game because you kind of know where – it's almost like Game of Thrones where the guys have their flags planted all over, and each place has their star. It's like, yeah, it's like you've got your crest, as it were. Yeah, I think there's a bit of that that's cool.

And that's what we're talking about. Imagine if they didn't sign Bryce Harper. How screwed the Phillies would be. Oh my God. They would be royally screwed if they didn't sign Bryce Harper. I mean, at this point, you start wondering, is another free agent superstar ever going to hit the market again? I mean, you know, like Lindor is a guy you've talked about as saying he's going to hit the

market, whatever. And the only reason he's hitting the market is because the Indians can't afford him. And that's going to be the only reason. Most other teams can afford these guys, and the Indians can probably afford them. Look, I mean, the Padres were able to afford Manny Machado, so these teams can afford these players. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah.

26-year-olds. Honestly, they probably should have signed both, Machado. So these teams can afford these players. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. 26-year-olds. Honestly, they probably should have signed both, Machado and Harper. I think so, too. Now the way this has played out, it feels like that. And I bet you if Trout had signed that extension earlier, I bet you they would have. If all this stuff, the Trout extension, the Arenado extension, all the kind of dominoes that have fallen, I agree with you. I think they might have been even more aggressive out there.

Because now with how the sport is gone, maybe Mookie hits the free agent market. Probably not. But probably not. He turned down $200 million, which he should, because he's worth $350. Yeah, he's going to get close to $400 million. Right.

Lindor, I think, could be the next one. But outside of that, there's just 26-year-old guys, 27-year-old guys are just not hitting the market. Which is why we talked about it being so important that they sign one of these guys. This is why none of us slept well for the last four months. Here is my take on the Trout thing. Outside of everything you said, I agree with wholeheartedly. I'm incredibly sad and disappointed.

I don't blame the guy for taking the money. I don't blame him for wanting to live the life he wants to live. Who are we to say anything else? But I will say this. I think he's a little soft. That is my big takeaway from this is Mike Trout wanted to play somewhere where he wouldn't have the spotlight on him for the rest of his career, where he could just go about his business, put his head down,

and play baseball. And sure, in some ways it's very admirable. He just wants to go about his business, and he doesn't need to be a star and all that. He's going to be Ripken. He didn't want the pressure of Philadelphia. That's be Ripken. He didn't want the pressure of Philadelphia. That's what this is. He didn't want the pressure.

And Bob Nightingale did write that in his USA Today piece after he signed. He said that Trout did notice the booing at the first Falcons game this year. Oh, man. Like, come on. Really? You have to know that, though. You're from here. Or close.

Or whatever. Like, come on, man. You know how. How are we saying it now? Is he from here, or is he not from here? No, you're not from here. That was my mistake. So two months, a week ago, he's from here. You know where Mike Trout's from?

He's from New Jersey. That's where he's from. A week ago, he's basically from here. He's our prodigal son. And now he's in Villanova. Villanova's way closer than Millville. I know, it's like 14 miles. Anyway, but like, yeah, no.

I don't, I do think, well, here's the thing, is that the Angels may not be in Purgatory forever. I mean, they do have Joe Adele, and they are getting out for the Pujols contract. There's a chance to win there, but they're also in the same division as the Astros. And their farm system is bad. Like, it is not a good farm system.

It's getting better. It's getting better. Joe Adele is awesome, but. Griffin Canning. They have certain guys. They've got some guys, but they're still as of now, probably still a bottom five farm system in baseball. Certainly bottom 10. I'd put them in the 15 range.

Regardless, they're slowly getting better. They've got Otani, which definitely helps their prospectness. Assuming he comes back healthy. There is an element to where it's like, do you really want to win, or do you just want to have no pressure and put up Hall of Fame stats? Which is what I think there is an element to where it's like do you really want to win or do you just want to have no pressure and put up Hall of Fame stats? Which is what I think it is.

Look, I don't think he doesn't not want to win but if winning were the most important thing to Mike Trout you don't sign that extension. Yeah, and I really do think Three playoff games. Three play-in games.

I don't think he Three playoff games. Three play-in games. No, no, no. But I think... I don't think he fully... Of course he thought about it. But Chase Utley never got criticized here. And Mike Trout would have been Chase Utley on steroids. I agree with you. He didn't really think it out well. I agree with you. I'm sure he thought it out.

Right. But the point is that if he were scared of getting booed someday or not living up to it, it was a bit of a childish thing. I think there was a part of him that was a littleed someday or not living up to it, it was a bit of a childish thing. Yeah, I think there was a part of him that was a little bit worried about not living up to the expectations here. I mean, he would be approaching his 30s. He would have Bryce Harper next to him. But we also worship Mike Trout.

And we also worship Chase Utley. And Chase Utley, even when he's bad, never got ripped. There's also a difference between the Eagles and the Phillies, in a way. And overreacting to the Falcons game, I think, is a little more. I totally agree with you. I think it's somewhat asinine, to be blatantly honest about it. I have something to say about Chase Utley coming up later in the show. Oh, you'll see.

What did Chase Utley do now? It's what we call a tease, Jack. All right. The man who actually is our favorite son, the one who proved to be what we thought Mike Trout was, Bryce Harper, Jack. Yes. My man hit some home runs.

He sure did. My man hit some home runs. Well, they weren't even home runs. They were just titanic shots. Moon shots. That second one was a moon shot. You know what I'm so excited for? I'm so excited to finally have a guy that we can watch

and like know when he's about to go on a roll a little bit you could see it with him right and i obviously i've watched pretty much every bryce harper highlight tape under the sun and i was watching the we know jack i was watching the 2015 highlight tape the other day the mvp season and it was just like when he is when he is a line drive thinking only line drives and he is trying to have an even swing and whatnot, he is just such a different hitter. And if you watched the first half of last year, it was like he's trying to get under everything and try to just only get home runs and whatnot.

It wasn't great. I think he's getting back to the line drive-ness. And those two home runs, I think when Bryce Harper is going right, it is line drives that turn into home runs. You know what bryce harper is going right that it is line drives that turn into home runs you know what i mean they get out in a hurry right and i think that's the that's when we're gonna know that that bryce harper is going at the right time and i just i can't help but think about remember like 2007 september was a nationals game and it was the first time that we ever saw the white rally towels and do you remember this at all no all right so i have

this weird thing that i always i always get something i choked up thinking about so it was like man it was like it was like september it was get choked up yeah so it was september it was washington uh they were in town and obviously the division stuff's happening first time they broke out the rally towels and i was like oh my god that's the greatest thing ever And in the first inning In the first inning Howard hits an absolute bomb Into the white rally tiles And I just can't help but thinking about that

With Bryce in about four months You're getting wistful here like I can see it on your face You know it's just a beautiful sight Is the rally tiles And just thinking about Harper like Hitting home runs into the rally tiles it's the greatest thing in the world it's it's a it's a reason to get up in the morning this is great it's just i'm so i i cannot wait for the playoffs i cannot wait for a run i can't

wait for a full bank every single night we are literally less than a week from a full bank that's not going to be bullying our manager which is going to be a big step up it's going to be awesome man it'll be really a bank where people are excited about the prospect of the season ahead. We talked about it last time. It really is true. The ball just sounds different off his bat. It's just such a pop. And the one thing that I think

is good, because the only minor concern about Bryce Harper long term is his swing is too violent and his body might break down like a Tiger Woods kind of thing. I really think his swings yesterday were just smooth and just titanic shots. It wasn't super violent. The ball just jumps off his bat. I hope he's locked in from a line drive standpoint this whole entire year.

Honestly, thank God he did the launch angle thing at the beginning of last year because I think he now has gotten to a point where he's realized, I can't do that. I am a line drive hitter. That's why I am going at my best. And just, Bryce, we thank you a lot, but we haven't thanked you enough for batting 2-15 the first half last year. Thank you, buddy.

If you didn't do that, you're probably a $400 million player. And guess what? With the way this whole extension thing is all shaken out, you would have been worth the $400 million, but we're happy we didn't have to pay it to you. So, Bryce, we thanked you a lot, but thank you for starting slow last year and everyone thinking that you're bad. He's the ultimate throw-off-the-scent guy.

Yeah. Bill Simmons always says with teams it throws off a scent. That's how I feel about Bryce Harper. I feel like everyone has been thrown off. I do, too. I mean, we've talked about it a lot, how I feel like there's a lot of excitement around Bryce Harper and the Phillies because of Bryce Harper and all that.

But I think it's a lot of excitement because the Phillies added the face of baseball and he said all the right things and all that. But I don't think that people realize how good he's going to be here. And again, as we've talked about a million times, he's entering his age 26 season. He is not even at his prime yet. I'm going to start. I can't even speak when I get this excited.

Here's another thing I'm excited about. You said you're excited to have a guy where we know when he can go on a streak. And you see the streak coming. You see it coming. I'm excited to just have a guy that you can't change a channel for. That you have to sit there. You know Bryce Harper is coming up.

You can't leave. You can't leave. Not that we would change a channel for Philly's game, but that idea for most people, the casual fan, that if the casual fan is tuning into a game and Gene Segura is up, they're like, I can't go anywhere because Bryce Harper is coming up next. I got to be here. I can't go anywhere because Bryce Harper's coming up next. I gotta be here. I can't take my eyes off the TV. Yeah, you schedule

your leaving the TV-ness around Bryce Harper. You have to. I mean, I've had this personal dilemma where a game started at one and I want to try to go to the gym and watch and also be kind of working out. Does being on the elliptical and watching the Phillies really count as a workout?

I'm a big elliptical guy. I'm an elliptical guy, too. Oh, yeah. It's good. So I'm in such good shape when you look at me. The one time I've worked out in the last three years, I used the elliptical, so it was really good. Right. Well, I plan that around my Bryce Harper at-bats, because I want to be on the elliptical for Bryce Harper home runs,

because I feel like I get an extra little pump out of it. Yeah, like, yeah, I'm going. Of course. I like that. Of course. It isn't working. It isn't working at all. No, I'm still in far with you.

That's because you're eating pot pies and beers for dinner. I hung out with Jack last night. Yes. Orders of pot pie, which actually was an incredibly strong order. It looked awesome. It looked awesome. We were in an Irish place. Yes.

Jack pulls the power move of when the bowl of pot pie comes by, Jack pulls the pick the bowl up off the table, swing his leg around, do the cross legs and eat the bowl out of his lap, essentially. Like I was at my own house. Literally, it was like you were sitting on your couch at home. I've never seen anyone

do that in a restaurant before in my life. It was awesome. Alphas do alpha things. It was a very alpha move. Alphas do alpha things, man. alpha things man what do you want me to do very out of place but at the same time i appreciated it all right just fired up to be there yeah we could tell um i don't know where you going i don't know i just i was gonna yell something yell i love yelling i had things to go to i actually prepare for this but you know i prepare too i just write a bunch of stuff down and when i get to it, I get to it. We talked about

the extensions earlier, and I wanted to just present this to you. Lay it on me. Would you sign JT Romito to five years, $100 million right now? Yes. So my thought process behind five years, $100. No question. Okay. Relax, buddy. But five years, $100 million. I think it's a really fair deal. It buys

out the next two years, which he's only owed six. Five six i think it is okay five and six gets him off the 20 that 5.9 and seven or something like that maybe it's something like that but bumps him up to 20 and then the next so takes out those two years it's basically a three-year extension worth 60 million dollars yep which i think is well no it'd be more. Oh. Because if he's only going to make six and seven, you're adding an extra 14 and 13 there. Yeah, it's the way I concocted in my brain. The way I concocted in my brain is these next two years don't matter. Get me to the next three years. I think, look, I think J.G. Real Muto is better than a $20 million a year player.

Certainly for the next three years. Past that, he gets a little older. You don't know if he's going to be the same on the defensive side of the ball. But I think he's worth more than that for the prime of his career. Yeah, but I think I understand what you're saying, and I agree so. But also, Trout's worth like $80 million a year, so it's tough to say that. But Posey, when he signed his contract, Posey these last couple years has been, you know, $22 million.

So, I mean, Real Muto would be a tier below that. But he's 28 now, Real Muto. I think you could probably get him cheaper than that in reality. Like 590? Yeah, 590. I was going to say 470, something like that. I like the idea. I like the idea of these two years he's going to be a peak catcher.

I think he has four years of being a peak catcher left. I think that's fair. In the last year you don't really know. He may still be good. I think Russell Martin signed a deal

of like 580 a couple years ago. JT Romita is a better player than Russell Martin was at his peak. Honestly for both sides I would like to get a JT

Realme to deal with that as soon as possible. Because one, on one hand, Realme is a catcher. You don't know how much longer those

legs are going to be together. Although I will say that I think since he played shortstop most of his career. And he's incredibly athletic.

Incredibly athletic. I just think he has a chance of sticking long-term at catcher. I think so too. Better than most catchers would. He hasn't caught that

much in his career. I know that sounds kind of crazy because whatever. but he did play shortstop all through his life until he got to the minor leagues. So I think that helps him, goes a long way towards keeping his legs as fresh as possible.

And also, I think he's about to go on. I think he's going to have a big year. Dude. I think he's going to have a really big year. I said 280 and 25 and 25. It's too low. I think he's going to bat like 310, honestly. I think he's going to hit 30 homers. He's going to hit 30 homers.

He has an 850 slugging in his spring training, but he's just crushing baseballs. I think we've just talked about Marlins Park, right? It is the biggest park in baseball. It's a horrible ballpark. I've been there. It's horrendous. It is gigantic. park in baseball. It's a horrible ballpark. I've been there. It's horrendous.

It is gigantic. He is going to be a monster. I know. And it's crazy how... I'm so excited. It's crazy how amazing this Phillies offseason was, was that JT Romito was the third biggest acquisition behind Bryce Harper and Jason Ochart, that JT Romito is the third most important acquisition

of this offseason. And it's not even talked about. It's talked about, but it's not like... Not in any glowing terms. Dude, other teams would be like fawning over themselves. Other teams, it would be their whole offseason would be, we got JT Romito, that's it. That was the move.

That was the big move that we made. No, we got Andrew McCutcheon, Bryce Harper, Gene Segura, and JT Romito. By the way, Real Muto is correct. Real Muto? John Ritchie was down in spring training. I tasked him with it. He talked to everybody down there. Real Muto. Okay.

So we were right originally. Nice. Ritchie was wrong and he made me waver Real Muto. Okay. I think I do think an extension is I think it's soon for Real Muto. Okay. I kind of have that is... I think it's soon for Real Muto. Okay. I kind of have that feeling that... Look, at this point, I feel like everyone's getting an extension.

Now... You get an extension. You get an extension. Oprah voice? Yeah. But I will say, I don't think Hoskins is going to get one. I think Hoskins is going to wait this out. Obviously, Boris is his agent now.

True. I am worried about... It's weird. Look, he's a little ways away. He's still got... It's 2023. Yeah, so... I always get happy when I remember that. I know. It's a's weird. Look, he's a little ways away. He's still got... It's 2023. Yeah, so... I always get happy when I remember that.

I know. It's a good number. Yeah. No, so with Hoskins, I think it's interesting because on one hand, I understand Scott Borch is his agent, but I also think Reese loves being the face of the Phillies. Even though Bryce Harper's the face of the Phillies. Former face of the Phillies. But I think he loves being a guy that is...

He likes to be out front. For sure. When you think of the Phillies, you think of Reese Hoskins. You think of Bryce Harper. And I think he likes that. I think he likes the attention that brings. I would be surprised if he hits for agency. I really would be.

I like that. I hope you're right. Would you be surprised? Yes and no. Yes, because of what you said. And I think they will... Yeah, I know. But look, it's one of those things where

every other factor, I would say yes, Scott Boras is agent, so you have to say no. Like, you have to say no. Even Rendon might hit free agency. Scott Boras wants his guys to hit free agency. That is the way he does business. It's the way he's always done business. Granted, things are changing.

The landscape is shifting a little bit, so you never know. Yeah. But I would lean towards any Scott Boras client just saying, yeah, they'll probably go to free. Yeah. I know I thought Mike Trout was different. I also think that Reece Hoskins is different. Of course we do.

That's our next passion project. All right. All right. A few other things I want to get to. We have not talked since Andrew McCutcheon has officially been named the lead offender by Gabe Kapler. We had both said that we were fine with McCutcheon and Leo Spott, but we thought that putting Cesar there and then having McCutcheon in the 6-hole

gives you a little bit more versatility. McCutcheon can do more out of the 6-hole. How do you feel about this? So I think what I've liked about Gabe so far this year is when he's thinking of lineup construction and he's thinking about how he's going to do it. The one thing I think that has really stuck out to me is that he's putting guys where

they feel the most comfortable. Where they feel comfortable. Right. What a novel idea. I know. And obviously that's straying away. Put the people where they feel comfortable and could succeed. Right.

So obviously that's straying away from um it's straying away from where where teams are going now and from a pure analytical approach and putting that human factor on it as well right and i just think i think he mccutchen in the leadoff spot last year he batted like 420 something or like 425 awesome he was great at it in the leadoff and he feels comfortable there i think with the yankees right in his career he's a 367 OEP guy out of the leadoff spot, which is good. It's basically Cesar. Cesar, same thing, yep. Right, and we talked about last week his O swing percentage,

how he doesn't chase balls out of the zone and lets everything come to them. Really, if it was Cesar or McCutcheon, I don't care because I think both would be great leadoff hitters. I would like Cesar in the 9-hole. We talked about this. It's not going to happen, it seems like. It seems like he's probably going to be the 7-hole guy. Yeah, it's weird.

Feels weird. I guess what they're thinking. I mean, look, here's the thing is you put him on base, Franco in the 8-hole, maybe you get him on base. Yeah, that's the thought. Or maybe they put him in the 6-hole. And he leads off for Franco and Odubo kind of thing as like a second lineup.

Yeah, maybe that's what they're thinking. It's okay. Yeah, I like the idea of Cesar 9, for Franco and Odubo kind of thing as like a second lineup. Yeah. Maybe that's what they're thinking. It's okay. Yeah. I like the idea of Cesar nine. If it turns out that way, then Cesar, McCutcheon, Segura. I do too. I think that's a tough three to get out in a row.

But either way, I'm cool with McCutcheon leading off. I mean, and with McCutcheon leading off, you think about that top five. I mean, if you're going to go McCutcheon, Segura, Harper, Hoskins, Real Muto, I mean, come on, Jack. I'm not complaining. Is there a top five in baseball you'd take over it? I mean, there might be, but it's right there. Yeah, the Red Sox. I mean, the Astros' top five is pretty

good, assuming Carlos Correa is good. Who we're not sure about anymore? We're not sure anymore. He needs to figure it out. It's crazy. He needs... Marlins? Oh, obviously. Yes, of course. How'd you forget? Marlins won like 11 straight in certain journeys.

Are they really? I don't know. I guess the Red Sox is close. Astros is close. Yankees. You put close, but I don't know if it's better. I would say... Luke Voigt's probably in their top five. I would say the Phillies are a deeper top five than the Yankees. Even in the Yankees, I would stand and judge back to close, but I don't know if it's better. I think Luke Voigt's probably in their top five. I would say the Phillies are a deeper top five than the Yankees. Even than the Yankees, I would stand and judge back to back. But in the NL, what's better than that?

There isn't any. Like the Dodgers. Not their top five. Maybe they have more depth throughout the lineup, but I wouldn't take their top five over the Phillies. Well, let's think. Seager, Turner, Bellinger. Pollock. Pollock.

Kike. Who's their leadoff guy this year? Probably Taylor. Chris Taylor, maybe. Right. It's a good top five. It's not this. No.

That's my point. It's not. Just suck it, NL. We're back. Let's go. We're back. And we got Nola. God, it's just cute.

You know, I feel bad for the rest of the NL. I love that big talking Phillies fans are back. You let us back in the game, NL. How's it feel? You woke a sleeping giant. How's it feel? It's good to be back, honestly. It's good to be back.

How's it feel? It's been, what, eight years? It's been eight years since we've been on Talk Smack. Eight years. We're back. We're back. All right. Speaking of...

Phoebe's top five in the league. Speaking of we're back, I was talking to Richie and to Cameron down in Clearwater right now, and I asked them, I said, hey, who's someone that we haven't talked about much on the show who surprised you or who looks good down there? Let me just say something. I like those guys. I'm taking this with a huge amount of respect. No, because here's the-

Yeah, I agree with you. Very much so. My eyes are the only ones that can. Let me get there because it's not their opinion, so this is why it's good. They said, well, we haven't watched much. That's surprising. But the guy that everybody is talking to us about, Nick Pavetta. Say it.

Nick Pavetta. Say it louder. They said everyone's talking about Pavetta. He's nasty. Everyone on the team is fired up. They think he's busting out this year. The Nick Pavetta hype is real, Jack. Welcome in, everyone.

I had to sit up for a little bit and then sit back down in my chair. I don't want to be this guy. I don't like patting myself on the back ever for anything. Never. You've never done that before. I'm really humble. I told you. I don't care that he hasn't pitched in an actual game yet.

The guy is sitting 97, 98. Just cool. Did you watch the Cardinals start? Yeah. It was ridiculous. It looked awesome. He hopped off the mound. The reason why I love Pavetta is it's just a snapshot into what high school Fritz looked like.

Like, we are both as competitive as that. Like, we're both hopping off the mound, both fiery competitors. That's why I love him so much. I just see so much of a young Fritz in Nick Pavetta. Oh, that is so perfect. Someone told me the other day doesn't have a plus fastball which i was like what are you talking about but all right so for as

disgusting as as he was it was five innings uh it's five he went into the six and then got pulled but it's five innings eight k's um the home run was just a bad two two pitch um he should have buried it actually should have thrown a fastball. The sequencing didn't make any sense. Like I said, it looks like the game has just really slowed down for him. Last year, whenever a runner got on first base, I was like, well, here it goes. I thought he was going to completely fall apart. This year, it feels like he has a plan. It feels like everything slowed down for him. The VLO has picked up a little bit.

The one concern I had in the Cardinals start was that as soon as it reached the sixth inning, the location was off and the velo was down and the breaking ball bite was off. So obviously at spring training, obviously you get ramped up as the season goes along. Just saying the next step in his progression is getting through the sixth inning and into the seventh and eighth and eventually the ninth. But I legitimately think we're about to see maybe a 200, 200-plus. I'm calling my shot 200-plus strikeouts. Whoa!

200-plus strikeouts. I love it. He's going to pitch 175 innings and strike out 200. I am very in for that, Jeff. Yeah. He's just disgusting. I don't know how you hit him right now. And his changeup is still developing. So you're calling for a perfect game as first start?

I've actually... Perfect game first start? I don't know about that. Just a no-hitter? But let me just say this. He is the number two. He's officially the number two, according to Gabe Kapler, and they're rewarding Nick Pavetta,

which means they're also... Which is surprising, to be honest. Which means they're also rewarding me. I'm just so... I thought Jake Arrieta was your boy. I figured you'd be devastated. That podcast has been deleted just like the John Milton can't close podcast. But I wish we were getting prime time Pavetta on Sunday. I really do.

Yeah, that's true. But watching Pavetta against the Cardinals in the spring training start the other day, I always do this. I always just think about the playoffs. He just has the feel of just a dude in the playoffs. I agree with you. I've said that from the moment I saw him pitch out. He's just got a fire.

He's got a toughness to him. Obviously, he's not as bad of a dude as Curt Schilling. I'm just saying that from a competitor and from mechanics and the way he handles himself on the mound, it just reminds me a lot of a Schilling-Clemens kind of thing. That guy's an a-hole on the mound.

I want a-holes on the mound. Nick Pavetta is an a-hole on the mound, which is another reason why he reminds me of myself from high school. I was a bad teammate on the mound. Le least shocking thing i've ever heard in my life i got plenty of testimonials like people try to believe it people try to come to the to the mound to calm me down and i just shoot like i get away from me yeah because everyone just tells you to throw strikes i'm like i know what do you think i'm trying to do case for it i just wanted to win hey man two and0 in the high school playoffs. That doesn't happen every day.

Never lost. But I just... It doesn't happen every day. I was falling off my chair watching Pavetta against the Cardinals. I was like, oh my god. He's really here. It's exciting. He's really here. It's a big moment. He is a change up away from being what Steven Strasburg was supposed to be. And they're not going to pay him

$35 million a year like the other year. Alright, what else you got? On your unorganized list. Okay, I have one thing that I think is important. And by the way, next week we will be doing full-on preview stuff. We'll preview the

National League. We'll preview the team, what we expect from them, all that stuff. Good tease. There was just plenty of stuff that we had to talk about today. Yeah, I just want people to know that we're going to do all that stuff.

So let me get your thoughts on this because I think the reason that Dallas Keuchel or Craig Kimball are not here yet is because I think John Middleton has no interest in paying that luxury tax yet. Because there's no reason why Dallas Keuchel isn't here. The Phillies have

like $18 million available right now before hitting the luxury tax. I agree with you. And for what it's worth, Klentak was on with Joe and John today and they asked him essentially without saying Dallas Keuchel's name, they're like, you know, there's some players still out there, one starting pitcher in particular.

And let me guess, he said, these guys were the reason that we were in first place for the whole entire, most of the season. No, he didn't even go that deep. He just shot it down completely. He said, essentially, we're good with what we got, for all intents and purposes. Did you ask him if they watched Vince Velasquez yesterday? Was that the follow-up question? Should have been.

Did you enjoy the Vince Velasquez experience? Take it for what it's worth. It's a GM talking on the radio. Obviously not always telling the truth, I'm sure. But he was very cold on the idea of bringing anyone else in. But their actions now scream of a team that does not want to pay that luxury tax yet. For as much as the Phillies would like to make the playoffs this year, and I do think that.

I think they'll do everything in their power. The fact that Dallas Cutcliffe isn't here, and they have I think $18 million until they hit the luxury tax threshold, or whatever, and Madison Baumgartner's salary this year is $12 million. So I think that, I just, I don't think they want to pay this year. They want to have the flexibility

to be able to trade for someone with a salary that won't put them over the luxury tax. Right, and I think they want to, I think Middleton's idea to stay under it now is that, my hope is... That eventually he's going to go over and he doesn't want to add the extra year of piling over. Exactly. Fingers crossed. Let's hope he's not just cheaping out here after spending a bunch of money on Bryce Harper. He's like, I don't want to spend it anymore.

I thought that was it. No, but... I signed the guy, guys. Come on. He's signing autographs down in spring training still. That was something else that Joe and John just said. Middleton's everywhere. He's all out and about.

I'm like, yeah, if I just signed Bryce Harper, I'd be everywhere too. I'm not going to kill him if they do that. I understand. It's just I hope that eventually he's willing to pay the luxury tax. I agree. If nothing else, like you said, he has to be willing to... Organizationally, you can try and be smart about money and all that type of stuff. I'm not saying be stupid and just pay the luxury tax and just spend tons of money, but he has to be willing that if it is the right move for this team in that moment to not, double negative here, but not make a move just because he doesn't want to go over the ledge. Right. And I understand it from the perspective of this year because they're probably not going to win the World Series. Probably not.

Probably. But they may. I don't know, Jack. They may. They can. They can win the World Series this year. They definitely can. How cool is that?

How cool is that? They're one, hopefully a bounce back, bum guard, or trade away from legitimately being in it, which is exciting. Oh, my God. I can't even, Jack. I know. Oh my God. I can't even, Jack. I know. They're back.

I can't even. They're back. In one offseason. But it's fine this year if they don't want to do it because they probably want to win the World Series. But if there's a chance to win the World Series, just pay the luxury tax. Suck it up, John. And I think he will.

I think so too. Look, as of now, he is Jack Middleton, and he has that title until he tells us otherwise. Yes. Jack Middleton would be all right paying the luxury tax. Should I do one more thing? Sure. Okay. So this was such a... Twitter's always a weird place.

Yeah. You could say that. Somewhat weird at times. And I posted about Alec Baum's hands. Oh, yeah. You texted me. People were coming after you. I was so mad.

You were like legit mad. This is one of those situations every once in a while. Jack will put something on Twitter or whatever and people will react a certain way and he will text me like legitimately upset about this and I will tell him, why do you care? Let people say what they want to say or don't even look at it. But Jack gets so mad about it. Because it was a good point. So mad about it so mad about it. Because it was a good point. So mad about it.

I was so mad because it was a good point. So Alec Boehm, honestly, watching Alec Boehm's hands, it flew me right back to watching Markel Fultz's workout. Oh, no. When he came in for that workout, I missed every shot. And everyone's like, oh, it's fine. And I was thinking back, like, oh, Boehm didn't hit a home run last year. That's mildly concerning.

I understand it was a knee injury. I think he's going to be fine. And listen, let me just say something. I love Alec Boehm. I think Alec Boehm. It doesn't sound like it, Jack. I know. I'm going to be honest here.

For some reason, people are like, well, you hate Alec Boehm. Why do you hate Alec Boehm? I know. He just drafted the guy. You already hate him. I think Alec Boehm's going to be very good. I just think he has to change his load around because it's not strong enough. I know.

But his load is- You've got to change that load, man. It's zapping his power. I'm telling you it's zapping his power. Why did load become such a thing? Load management. That's what the indeed's on. I know.

Load's a big word. It's a ridiculous phrase for that. I know. Load management. I get it. It's ridiculous. Move on. Honestly, I think O. It's ridiculous. Move on. Honestly, I think O-Chart sees it as well,

and hopefully the minor league coordinator sees it as well, because I fundamentally do believe that it does zap some of his power the way his hands are set up now. He has to get more vertical. I ran it by a bunch of people that I respect as hitting people, and they all agreed with me. It's the next step in his evolution is becoming more vertical, because that's not a power stroke.

I love the idea that you have hitting people that you run things by. I do. I do. I want to make sure my opinions are valid before I bring them on this podcast. And the Alec Boehm opinion was a valid podcast, and I was so mad that people were like, you hate Alec Boehm. You were really mad. Because I do love Alec Bo Bohm. I want him to be

amazing. It's just he has to fix this. Okay. Big takeaway. Jack hates Alec Bohm. That's what everyone's. That's really the all you need to take away from this conversation is Jack hates Alec Bohm. It's not true. Alright. Final thought. Mine will be Chase Utley related as I teased before.

Okay. I have 17 final thoughts. I have two final thoughts. I have two final thoughts. I have two final thoughts. And I was going to propose this to you before he signed his extension. I thought you were going to say you proposed to me, Jack. Yes.

Well, I was going to propose this to you before he signed his extension, but now I can't because he signed his extension. So, one, if we're the Phillies, if we're all Phillies fans, we have to be rooting that the Oakland A's do not extend Matt Chapman because with Aaron Otto leaving the market and whatnot, I really want Matt Chapman. I like Matt Chapman a lot. I love the player.

I was going to propose to you, which is more important to the Phillies, a Blake Snell trade or a Matt Chapman trade because I thought neither team was really going to be interested in signing. And then Blake Snell signed the extension. Right. It's a shame. Basically, the Rays stealing money from

Blake Snell. Right. Five years, 50 million. The guy just won the Cy Young. They're giving him 10 million a year. Are you serious?

Yeah. Well, the NOLA contract's less than that, too. Yeah. 45 million. Do we not talk about how I thought the

NOLA contract might be the best in all of baseball? And teams in baseball agree. They're like, that's ridiculous. And the Snell one

is just as bad. Well, it's not as bad. I mean, Jose Ramirez is still the biggest steal in baseball. True. It's like five for 20 or something. It's ridiculous. It's absurd. But hopefully Matt Chapman does not sign a long term with the A's

and the Phillies can just steal him. I see what it is. So you rip Alec Boehm and then find his replacement for the future. I do love Matt Chapman. It's good. I do love Matt Chapman. And my other final thought is that I have officially my guy at 14

for the Phillies. Oh, you texted me about this. Not only that, you said you have the first two rounds just mapped out. I have the first two rounds mapped out.

Real quick, real quick. The draft is in June. I can't wait. I really can't wait. I can't wait. Season hasn't even started yet and Jack is mapping out

the first two rounds. I don't care. You want to know what kind of person Jack Fritz is, this is the perfect example. I can't wait. Season hasn't even started yet, and Jack is mapping out the first two rounds. I don't care. You want to know what kind of person Jack Fritz is, this is the perfect example. I found the guy. His name is Hunter Bishop, and he is an outfielder from the Arizona State Sun Devils. The guy has already hit 11 home runs,

and the season started in mid-February. You're so weird. He's batted 455. Hunter Bishop? Hunter Bishop. Okay. He has the same song as Christian Yellich And his exit velo

Didn't we take a guy Who had the same Song as Christian Yellich Whatever I'm for taking As many outfield Until you find a guy Take as many position

Players as you want I don't care I agree with that Take that You can't pencil in guys As like Oh we can't get this guy Because we have this guy coming

Because you never know How it's going to work out I agree with that Look this offseason Has been a perfect example of that. Yes. And then in the second round, there's so many high school pitchers that I want that are probably better than the ones in the first round that just go after the big bat in the first round

and then take J.J. Goss in the second round. That's just what I'm doing. So I found my guy at 14. I really hope he stops hitting and just stays where he's at because I'm becoming fearful he's getting into the top 10. I think he's getting into the top 10. It's only until June, so who knows? It's going to be a long...

It's a long wait. I waited for Monster Bryce Harper. He's going to be the number one pick at the draft by June. Probably. I waited for Monster Harper. I can wait, what is it, March, April, May. I can wait three months for Hunter Bishop. I believe it.

You going to give anything up to get him? We'll see. Bishop-let? We'll see. We'll see if he gets top 10. I don't know. I'm worried about that. My final thought, Jack, is Chase Utley an LA guy?

Oh, no. Chase Utley working with the Dodgers spring training, like on the staff, they keep each other in the pictures. Now, it comes out the other day, he's going to be doing TV games. Why? He's going to be doing select games as a Dodgers announcer, Jack. This is getting the feel of the guy who hangs around the team forever and becomes like a face of that team.

What the hell is this, man? I'm sick and tired of LA. I am not okay with this. It is so frivolous and meaningless. I hate it. I hate it. He wasn't even good for the Dodgers. Why is he doing Dodgers TV? Why is he like a spring training instructor? Why is he not

doing this stuff for us, Jack? I'm legit upset about this. Well, it's because his family lives there. Who cares? He retired from baseball to be with his two kids. Do you care about Philadelphia or not, Chase? He does. He does.

Apparently not. He does. Mike Trout 2.0. How about that? Well, he actually played here. Chase Utley actually played here and he's going to go into the Hall of Fame as a Philly. He never chose us. He was drafted as a Philly. Wow. Now he's choosing LA. Choosing LA. I'm kind of upset. No, I think he's just doing it because he wants to be around his kids

as much as possible and that's why he even quit baseball in the first place. So, you hate Chase Utley, which is sad. I don't think you're ever going to hate Chase. I don't hate Chase. I'm just... I hate Alex Boehm. You hate Chase Utley. I'm disappointed. Yes, I'm disappointed in Chase. What can he do? I understand from a family.

I get it. I think he's... What is he doing TV for? That's the part I'm getting. He's going to be the worst TV analyst of all time. He hates talking. What are we doing here? think he's going to be, what is he doing TV for? That's a part I'm getting. He's going to be the worst TV analyst of all time. He hates talking. What are we doing here? Maybe he's changed. LA's changed him.

He's really opened up out there. He's a horrible guy now. Also, Ichiro. Done. Shout out. Love Ichiro. Respect. Respect to Ichiro.

I like that they did that, too. I do wish he came over earlier, because I think he would have had- 4,000 hits. Yeah. It would have been ridiculous. I mean, I owned over earlier because I think he would have had... 4,000 hits. Yeah, it would have been ridiculous. I mean, I owned him in Fantasy the year he broke the hits record. It was unbelievable how relentless that guy was every day. Two hits, two hits, two hits, three hits, four hits, one hit, two hits. He was amazing.

The thing I never... He was running to first base when he was swinging at the same time. Oh, the best at it. I just don't get it. Best drag boner I've ever seen in my life, too. He literally felt like he could carry the ball in his bat all the way out to first base. Crazy.

It's crazy. And then the cannon arm. He was the best. I was a big E-Tro fan. Right. So I liked that. It was a proper sign-off. And you know what he did?

He stayed in Seattle with the team that he grew up with. The team that he... Well, he left and then came back. He's ending it in Seattle with the team that he grew up with. The team that he, you know. Well, he left and then came back. He's ending it. Yeah, he came back. He came back. Come home, Chase. Wow.

This is really hitting you. Eh. Poor Chase. All right. Next week, we'll preview a bunch of stuff. It's going to be fun. Talk to you guys later. All-Star Closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question.

What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is.

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