High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The Phillies have the guys confused

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Jack and James are befuddled by the team despite the 'season saving' series win over the Cubs. Will they make a move at the deadline? Will they ever have a good CF again? Who knows! Come see us at the High Hopes Phillies Trivia and Watch Party presented by Miller Lite on June 19th @ Ladder 15! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The first time out of the house in weeks. You have your Starbucks? There you are, pushing your newborn baby in a stroller through the park. The first time out of the house in weeks. You have your Starbucks, venti, because, you know, sleep deprivation. You meet your best friend, she asks you how it's going, you immediately begin to laugh, then cry, then laugh cry. That's totally normal, right? She smiles, you hug. There's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hours sleep is more than enough.

Starbucks, it's never just coffee. The crowd was singing, High Hope. Smiling through a broken nose. Oh, High Hope, High Hope. And everyone's crying, it's how I feel a little less alone. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes podcast sponsored by Miller Lite, official partner of the Philadelphia Phillies. Tastes like Miller time in Philadelphia. Celebrate responsibly.

Luckily we don't have to be as sad as we were last pop. Uh-uh. Two and three from the Cubs, we're back. Season saved? I don't know. I have no idea how to feel. Dude, I am so happy you said that, Jack, because I really don't know what to make of this.

I don't know how to feel. The first game was so ugly. Ugly. Every flaw they have was shown in the second game. Yeah, the second game, exactly. First game was like a thank god, I can't believe they didn't deserve to win it. They won a game.

Everyone's running for no reason. And then yesterday they just whooped them. Yeah, yesterday, Lazardo showed up. Ben Brown getting us back a little bit, you know, former Philly, of course. Once untouchable at the trade deadline. He appreciated that Dave said that about him. Yeah, he made him untouchable for whatever reason.

The only time in his life. Yeah, so yeah, and yesterday, you know, if I was doing the Negadelfia, you know, the old school WIP, it'd be like, eh, that was their ninth straight road game. They're ready to get out of there. Oh, well, they're good, it makes sense. Yeah, yeah. They also did have to play today, too,

and the Phillies didn't, but yeah, never knew. Doesn't matter. They got their butts whupped, yep, they're back. Look, it is, I wanna say winning the season series against the Cubs could be important. Yeah. I don't know if it'll get to that point. You know what it does, it makes up for the nonsense

they've done against the Cardinals this year. I'm so mad at how they played against the Cardinals that it's like overshadowing how I feel beating the Cubs in a season series. Like, I don't know why it irks me so much. Because we hate the Cardinals. Well, it's just, that team's fraudulent. I don't care. Like irks me so much. Because we hate the Cardinals. Well, it's just, that team's fraudulent. They're not good. I don't care.

They're fraudulent and it brings down their record against teams above 500. So, I really don't know how to feel. I sort of think that they just need to tread water for the next month and a half and play 500 baseball until the trade deadline until Bryce is back and then we'll get a proper assessment on who this team is.

Yeah, but it's also like, ah. It's bad timing for it. For what? Well, cause like I feel like, I mean, Nebraska has to decide on some important people, like people you care about, people who you want to be a part of your life

for the next seven years, 10 years, whatever. But. I tell you what, you gotta weigh with words sometimes. Thank you, buddy. I mean, you really do, you know? You can't just be like. I was pretty good. I mean, you're basically acting like these guys

are my fourth and fifth. You like that, right? My third and fourth son. Pretty good, no? No, it's pretty intense. Yeah, you weigh. Well, yeah. I think you said something last time,

I was like, wow, you really laid that on thick. Once again. Well, when you talk about prospects, you are the king of laying it on thick. What do you want me to do here? Just because I treat them... Trying to match your intensity when it comes to level. Okay, okay. Well, let's see how you land this plane.

Well, now I'm all thrown off. I don't even remember what plane I was landing. Where was I even flying to? You were saying that, Jack, basically, in the next month, I get a sign in the future of your life. That's right. On the future of your children. Wow. But like, Dabrowski only has a month and a half

to make a decision on how all in he wants to go on this group right now. And obviously, I think coming into the season, if we had said deadline, all in, yeah, yeah, this is it. This is the group. This is the moment, whatever. But I don't know that I want him to trade certain guys. Obviously, the five guys used are refusing to trade. Like, what do you do then? Like, I think it's a really...

They're in a weird spot here. They're in a very weird spot. Where it's like, organizationally, they're all in right now. You know, the... Okay. Semi-all in. The group on the field is as all in as it could be. This is it. This is the last gas for this group of guys. The age, the contracts, the whole thing.

I mean, they are all in from a financial perspective, if nothing else. You know, they are. So, how do you weigh that if you're Dabrowski? If you don't really know... And the Harper thing, like, who the hell knows with Bryce? I mean, Topper, like that answer he gave yesterday basically starts with being like, oh yeah, you know, field and ground ball is doing good. And it's like, oh, well, it's just,

wait, can't swing a bat, are you crazy? Wait, wait, do you swing a bat? What a crazy thought, you know? So it was like, I didn't even know what to make of his comments. It's like, I have no idea how to feel. Yeah, well, and I think for Bryce, I would just anticipate he's not playing

until after the All-Star break. Like, I just, I wouldn't. It's a month away. I'm glad the wrist is like doing better, but at the same time, is it gonna re-aggravate the second that he swings it back? Well, that's what I mean. Like, we don't know what we're getting out of Bryce.

I know, I know, and it really throws a whole... Well, you can't add to the team, like this team's not good enough pricing there. Like just, sorry, sucks, but it is what it is. No, so again, I thought this week, they had clearly had their backs against the wall. The Pirate Series was a disaster. I think this team showed you that they still have some heart.

They still have some, they still have belief and they can still beat good teams. But I also don't think you can fool yourself into saying, this is a team that I wanna trade the future for because I don't believe that. So like, it's ultimately just, it's a hands up and you make a trade, you make trades similar to the awesome Hayes trade, you make a trade similar to the Carlos Estevez trade,

you make hopefully better bets. You just hope you hit on the guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you're. You don't have to make massive trades to get real value from the trade deadline. I mean, we see it every year where guys who maybe are a less, you know.

Look at Tommy Edmonds. That's my exact point. That's exactly what I'm, it's a perfect example. A guy who has traded for a low-level minor leaguer or whatever at a time can end up being the freaking NLCS MVP. You know, like that happens all the time. C. Pierce, our own guy, Debrowski, for real though. We brought him forever. We forgot to bring him up again.

Who could forget? C. Pierce, that was a also-ran type of move, and Steve Pearce was the World Series MVP for them. Like, you know, so it can happen. It does show sometimes that not great players can win MVPs of certain games. Oh, watch it. Don't, don't.

Interesting. Why you gotta do that? Why you gotta do that? I'm just talking about Steve Pearce, I don't know what you're talking about. Why you gotta do that? I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just talking about Steve Pierce. Yeah We're just talking about my body's not down enough I want to knock him down a good What are you down about? We took two or three from the Cubs to save the season. I don't know what you're down about

I don't know what you're down about. It's a great time. It's a really, I think this is the most confused I've ever been. I feel the exact same way. Honestly, I didn't even know what I was going to say. I know. Yeah. Because I want them to be aggressive at the trade that way. I want to win. I want Bryce Harper to be a freaking champion.

I want Zach Wheeler to be a champion. I know. But I also don't want to jeopardize the 2030 film. I also don't believe in them. That's the problem. I know. The problem is I don't believe it. I know, but I also don't want to jeopardize the 2030 film. I also don't believe in them, that's the problem. I know. The problem is I don't believe it.

I know. What's the podcast? So, pod over? Are we done? So, we're gonna be at ladder 15 next week. Yes, thank you. June 19th. Such a bad job.

Hey, if you're confused, just like we are, on how to feel about the Phillies, it's a beautiful time About a month away from the trade deadline to commiserate. I believe it's our last high hopes event before Before the trade deadline. So it's a big one. Yeah, so ladder 19 coming out. It is June 19th I don't know if that was on purpose. Ladder 15. Oh, I'm an idiot. You said, I was thinking June 19. Did I say Ladder 19 first? Maybe, I don't know.

I think it's June 19, Ladder 15. There we go. That was kinda correct. Way to go. Ladder 15, it's gonna be awesome. We're gonna hang out. We always have so much fun at these things. I tell you what, a lot more in the city this year.

Yeah. Yeah, seems like they're finally catering to you. Not complaining. Yeah. I wake up super early. Nice. That'll be fair, I'm off on June 20th, so I'm bringing it. I'm ready if we're finally catering to you. Not complaining. Yeah. The guy has to wake up super early. Nice. That'll be fair, I'm off on June 20th, so I'm bringing it. I'm ready to freaking hang.

Oh wow. Yeah, well long story short. Tell you what, every day this morning the show's taking someone off the show. Well the reason is is because Joe's off that day and I was supposed to host and they were like, can you drive down to Borgata after the event? And I was like, no.

Are you serious? Like I'm gonna be drinking at the event. It's till like 10, 11 o'clock at night and I'll have a show at like after we got before. I mean, no, there we go, just take the down. I was like, okay. Yeah. Say less.

I'm done. Say less. Good conversation over. Yeah, so. So it's gonna be an awesome one. I don't have to complain about, I'm not gonna leave. I don't have to complain about getting up early. You're gonna get the full Seltzer experience,

which Jack knows might be too much for you, but it's awesome. Awesome's a word. Yeah. But. Awesome is a awesome. Awesome's a word. But... Awesome is a word. Awesome's a word. So, yeah, so that's next Thursday. The 19th.

May, I don't know yet. I don't know yet. I would love for this to be true. But may have books available at the event. Oh! Might. So I believe... So you could be the first people in the city, the first Phillies fans.

Yeah. To get the Ring the Bell book. I will have to update those if it's happening, but I believe it's shipping the 16th. So maybe they'll be here in time. It's exciting. Maybe they'll be here in time. It's exciting.

I hope they are. Yeah, so it's gonna be awesome. Plus you can win Phillies tickets, hang out, drink beers with us, smell our lights, it's gonna be great. you win Phillies tickets hang out drink beers with us Okay, it's the Marlins Baby I don't know if I love four games in Miami. I know dude. It's like I'm just I still hate that place I will always hate that place forever and ever Thursday 640 right before a Flight home to play three at home against the Mets.

Oh, it should go great. Little nerve wracking. It should go great. Certainly wish the game wasn't at 640. I know. That should be a one o'clock start so that we can get home, make sure that we're locked in. I know.

Because all three Mets games are on national TV. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. I don't think any WIP callers will complain about that though, that Apple TV game or anything like that. Dude, I love the Apple TV game. Can we just say it?

It is a freaking awesome broadcast. Yep. Like, you get cam, like they just, you know, there's so much money that they're putting into these broadcasts. Like, some of the camera angles and some of the shots, I'm like, that is the coolest thing I've ever seen on a baseball field. Like, it's awesome. It's the clearest picture I've ever seen.

It's the clearest, absolutely. And you can do the Fransky thing. You can listen to Fransky when you're watching it. Like, it is awesome. It's the clearest picture I've ever seen. It's the clearest, absolutely. And you can do the Fransky thing. You can listen to Fransky when you're watching it. Like it is awesome. All in. I don't get the complaints about these. I'm so with you, dude. It's ridiculous.

Jack, thank you. All in on Apple TV. Yeah, that's a really good broadcast. It is? Now I've never listened to the actual broadcast. No, I have no idea what those announcers are saying. You know, Scott. The videos are the best.

So by far. Yeah, so again, if you are as confused as we are, hopeful, definitely hopeful. I'm hopeful. Definitely hopeful. Definitely want them to win. But definitely don't want to jeopardize the future. And definitely don't know if this is the team

that I want to go all in on. But also we need Bryce Harper to win a championship. We need Zach Wood to win a championship. We need these guys to win a championship. So confused. I'm just so confused. So confused. And I wish that, you know,

cause I think this is a time where the people turn to us and they want us to make like a- We're not here for them this time. Like want us to make a Braveheart speech and rally the troops. I don't know. You gotta keep it real. Like you would not like to listen to this podcast

if we didn't tell you authentically exactly how we feel. Like, Monday was infuriating, glad they won. But it's infuriating. Tuesday, I actually was proud of the offense. I thought that they, I actually was proud of Mick. I thought Mick showed really good poise. Getting out of the fourth inning there was, that was impressive.

You know, especially after not having the best night, giving up three runs. All three home runs, by the way. Yeah, all three home runs, you're walking some guys finally. I thought that showed some chutzpah. Yeah, and striking out Kyle Tucker after going down 3-1 on the count was huge. And it actually made me more hopeful

about how he could translate to the bullpen if they do go that route, once Nolan recovers from the ankle and the- What the hell, dude? It's like Nola's first IL trip of his life. And then it's like, the guy has no idea what he's doing here. Like, come on, you keep hurting yourself or doing whatever. Like, what is happening?

You're sick, did you hear him so coughing? Coughing, it's like, Aaron Nola clearly does not know how to do an IL step. It's showing. He hasn't been on one since 2016? I didn't even know he was ever on one. He was on yeah He had elbow thing that shut him down for the year. I think in 16. Ah, yeah, I was about to say I remember that It's like, you know

Not many people to know why would I know my 63 win team? So yeah, so yeah, so Yeah, it's like I don't remember that Nick Able I thought he shows him moxie that was nice I thought the offense they theyxie. That was nice. I thought the offense, they hung in there against a Cubs offense that is pretty hard to keep down. Dude, every single Cubs player looks like they're gonna hit the ball 800 feet. And dude, it's so annoying.

Like Suzuki, Tucker, like all of them. Pete Crow Armstrong. Pete Crow Armstrong. Like they're all. Pete Crow Armstrong looks like he's swinging a tennis racket. It's unbelievable. How he got so good so quickly is infuriating.

And on top of that, he's like the best defensive center fielder in the sport. Imagine that. Do you think we're ever just going to have a great defensive team ever again? I honestly, I'll go a step further. I don't know if we'll ever have a center fielder who can play again. It's been so long. Think about it this way. The last, and I'm going gonna use good very loosely here,

the like last good center fielder they had was Oduboh Herrera when he didn't stink. Yeah. Think about that, it's been a decade. And even he was. And he was bad. He was just that team was so bad. It was like, oh, he can hit a little bit.

Like that's how, since Victorino, it has been a wasteland. Yeah, and it's just like, you know, Matt Shaw, we'll see, but offensively, the plays he made defensively were ridiculous. I mean, ridiculous. And I think he was a, well, he's a shortstop in Maryland. So like, and I think he played some sec, but like they got Nico Horner,

they got Dainsby, they got Matt Shaw, they got Pete Crow Armstrong, they got like, and then, and then the Phillies, every time the ball's hit anywhere, it's like, I don't know. Besides where I was playing out. We talked about this last time, like the, it is really, I think I underestimated,

because I never really thought about it, but like, it is so unsettling to have a ball hit to shortstop and to not know if your shortstop's gonna make the play. It really is tough. Trey's been eating up the fans, but everyone know. We're monitoring the Trey Gold Glove situation. But he's hitting, I'll take it.

Again, we underappreciate. He's got 19 steals. Trey's been great. No, he's been, I'm not ripping Trey. He's really good. The good part about Trey this year is he's not having that random fall off. He's just 19 steals, like, he's running. Trey's been great. No, he's been, I'm not ripping Trey. He's been really good. The good part about Trey this year is he's not having that random fall off. He's just been consistent.

He's just slapping the ball over the field. And even when he has, like, an 0 for 4 game, it doesn't look dreadful. I agree with you. It looks like, okay, he just had a bad night. He usually hits one ball hard and... No, I've been, I've been, he just, I don't know if I can go underrated considering the amount he makes,

but I'm with you. He is, he, Trey deserves some credit for what he's done this year, I agree with you. But, but speaking of the defense, I don't know how it's possible. I swear, Castellanos looks slower. Oh yeah. He just, it feels like he's not getting the ball.

And granted, it's not like he got a lot of balls, but it feels like he's getting even less than he did before. It was so funny, I saw, what is it, they're like low in errors, right? Like, they don't have a touch. But it's like, yeah, because they don't get to anything. They can't get anything.

Of course they don't. They don't touch the ball. They have no range. There's a zilch range. It's pretty wild. Like, other than Stott and Rojas. And Kepler. And Kepler.

But Kepler's like, he's just sure. And it's not like he's got all the range. He's pretty good. Kepler's pretty solid. But like. Harper's like, he's just sure in it. It's not like he's got all the range. He's pretty good. Kepler's pretty solid. But like- Harper's actually, Harper's been fine. Harper's fine. JT's obviously great.

Yeah, we're not talking about in the play. I'm talking like ranges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild. Like, just like hit it just a little bit to the side and you're, it's gonna get through. Dude, every ball that goes into the right field corner, I just, it somehow takes an hour to get it in. Oh, it's like he's jogging. Like there's a guy on, there'll be a guy on first base, the ball will be hitting field corner, it somehow takes an hour to get it in.

Oh, it's like he's jogging. There'll be a guy on first base, the ball will be hitting the corner, and I'm sitting there like, okay, well he'll be at third, but there's no way he scores. Yes. Also, he's flying around third base.

And he scores standing up, like not even a throw, it's like the throw's cut off. It's like they didn't even play at the plate in those situations. Yeah, and he overran the ball the other day. I mean, I think Cassianos is the best example of why errors or fielding percentage

are the worst way to calculate defense. 100%. Because he doesn't make errors. I mean, that's that we just talked about. I think they're tied for the least errors in baseball. Yeah, yeah. But you go to every advanced metric. I mean, they are, by advanced metrics,

they're worse than the Rocky. They're the worst defensive team in baseball by advanced metrics. But it feels like they've like they're the worst defensive team in baseball by it But it feels like they've been one of the worst defensive teams for forget for 15 years But again, like that's the thing is we were like, oh can't have Hoskins and and Schwerber out there to me It did why not like what? Dude it's just like can we just get a team that can hit and play a team? We had a normal team. We develop players that can do and play a defense? Can we just get a normal team? Can we get a normal team?

Can we develop players that can do a couple things, besides one trait? It's like the biggest D'Ambrosio thing of all time. A shaky ballpen, guys playing on position, and a god-level pitching staff. It really is. That you hope can rake enough to win a World Series. It's how he's built teams his entire life.

Defense? Never heard of it. I might well up the day that we have a team that can both hit and play defense. I well up the day we have a center fielder that can do both. Well, it does. Even Crawford's supposed to be this. Crawford's a left fielder. I know.

That can play center. He's the fastest player on the team. It's funny, because, you know, every time the affiliate, like these past years, oh, look at that first, the 08 team, and oh, they're more talented than we've done it. We've been in the moment and done these things. Like, you really step back, and it makes you, like, appreciate that 08 team so much.

I mean, you go around the diamond. I mean, they had Pedro Feliz at third base, for Christ's sake. They had Rollins at short, Olli at second. I mean, that is, all three of those guys are better than anything we have. You know, like, I mean, they had Victorino in set. I mean, they think- Wow, and Wirth could have been the best.

And Wirth was the best right fielder in baseball. Like, basically, Burl and Howard were the only below average fielders you had on that team, and guess what they freaking rate I Just I just I'm just saying like I I had I appreciate it more. Yeah, you know what I mean 100% 100% and I actually think that the further and further and this is gonna sound odd and I'm sorry to for how odd the sound but I think we've like underrated how good the 08 that's kind of what I'm trying to it's exactly what I'm trying for how odd this sounds. But I think we've underrated how good the 018 was. That's kind of what I'm trying to say.

It's exactly what I'm trying to say. Because like, and the 019 was- We're always trying to find a boat. So this team better than that. It's like, what? Yeah. They're going around the diamond, man. Yeah.

It's really the pitching thing. I think it's because it was Cole and not a lot that we kind of look at it as like- And Myers got hot. Yeah, but I'm just saying as a team, when you look at it, you're like, oh, well they didn't have much pitching, you know? But it's like, man, that bullpen was lights out, dude.

I know, I know. So yeah, they are a confusing bunch. They are a confusing bunch. And at the same time, you sit here, they're 10 games over five rock straight. Yeah, I know, it's the funniest thing. And again, I know people do the whole day beat up. We hit the low point of the season

at nine games over five rock straight. I know. It was like, wow, we've hit rock bottom. Yeah, yeah, we're pretty blessed. We're pretty blessed. Well, yeah, I mean, it was like, wow, we've hit rock bottom. Yeah, yeah, we're pretty blessed. We're pretty blessed. Well, yeah, I mean, it's hard to do, but we always go back to the 10-year stretch, right? I know, I know.

Can you imagine they lose that Pirate series five years ago with what they're doing right now? It's just nothing. It's hard to put yourself back there, but it was torture. It was awful, it was awful. Now we're like, oh, this team that's 10 games over 500, it stinks, I hate them, I hate them. It's awful. It was awful and now we're like, oh this this team that's 10 games over 500 things. I hate them I know it's crazy. Well because you know and then you also watch this series and

It was Jarring jarring how quickly we got to the depths of the bullpen. Oh, I know and can we just real quick? Would you like to? say a farewell to an all-time horrendous Phillies career that Carlos Hernandez put on tape for the first two months of the season. What scrub are they gonna give the number 35 to? Well that's the sad thing I mean like yeah I know right I the bullpen is especially when you have to get deep into it. Well it was just like all, all right. Michael Mercado, he's back! All of a sudden it's like, okay, here's Taiwan

in the middle of it. We gotta stretch Joe Ross and ending in a third. By the way, Taiwan still can't do two days in a row? Like, what are we doing here? No, no, no. What's the plan here? What's the procedure? Joe Ross, he's getting an ending in a third out of,

you gotta go to Carlos Hernandez, where you're trying to come back in a game when you're only down two. Unbelievable, unbelievable. And then yesterday, they had a close out of you gotta go to Carlos Hernandez where you're trying to come back in a game when you're only down two. And then yesterday they had a close out of game with Max Lazar and Michael Mercado. I mean if that's a close game you're terrified. You gotta go two innings with Max Lazar yesterday. And Max Lazar has not been great.

No, he's just a guy, he's a guy, he's not supposed to be great. He's just a guy, he's just a guy. So yeah, Carlos Hernandez, hopefully they can stick him through waivers and they can fix them down there in triple-a and then bring him back Yeah, that's what we want. That's it. Everyone's talking about Who'd have done grabbing a guy off the scrap heap to start the season? Not bad. Not bad. Not bad It's pretty shocking. They can't just sign one more real real reliever

Well, that was was so annoying and like the Romano thing was fine We were fine with it. You know, you didn't love it in the moment, but it was like a whatever. They needed two of those. They needed, I mean, they needed more, but like minimum. That's why we were so frustrated with the off season

because it's like, come on, man. Like, you know that's not enough for this bullpen. You know it's not. And granny, you can't predict the Alvarado thing, but even with Alvarado, that wasn't enough. Mm-hmm, yep. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Totally agree.

Totally. Totally agree. So, yeah, again, a confusing time, but one that hopefully we can all work through together. I will say, the biggest thing that happened is that Lazardo looked like Lazardo. By far. Honestly, it's shame on us for going 22 minutes

into this podcast and not just leading with that. The most important thing that happened yesterday was that Lazardo was Lazardo again. And it looks like you were right. Like, it looks like it was a tipping thing, and they figured it out. Yeah, well, again. It was the only thing that made real sense, but still, when you don't know, you don't know.

Yeah, well, he got, I mean, again, the Blue Jays' heart was shocking. He got absolutely smoked. He got smoked. And he was back, like, you could tell within the first two innings of that game that it was different because they weren't getting good quality hacks off at all.

Like the Blue Jays went out and they were taking all A hacks. The Cubs were defensive all day. So, you know, obviously it helped he was not in the middle of the zone, but he looked, it's just, maybe he's doing it for the future extension, you know, maybe he's doing it for the future arbitration number, keeping that all down.

For us. For the team. He's a true team guy. They didn't want the All-Star game. Makes sense. He wanted to make sure they had the All-Star break off. Yeah, to lock in. Yeah.

I get it. They didn't want the style young. I like this, let's go with this. He's a true Philly. Always concerned about the 2027 Phils and the 2028 Phils. You decide him for 2028. I know.

I hope they do. I hope they do. I really enjoy him. I'm so happy that it looks like those two starts were an aberration because when he's on and he's pitching and he's, it's just so fun. Watching right-handed hitters swing at a slider that starts on the inside corner

and then basically ends up behind them. Oh, so good. It's hilarious. Yeah, let's swing over it and it just dives right underneath them. Because it really does hold a plane like a fastball or like a gutter and then it just dives. It just dives.

So, and it doesn't seem like it was an arm issue, maybe no dead arm, at the East, we were still hitting 98 in the sixth. Now, you probably knew that was last inning, so you felt like he was going for it, but still. He let it all out. It was huge.

It was huge, it was huge. So, yeah, very happy about his performance. Yeah, I agree with you, the best thing to have yesterday. Quickly, before we get to the take back, just one specific reliever to talk about, because I think you've gone through stretches where Kirk Ring was struggling, or this or that. I think pretty clearly right now,

Matt Strom is the poster child of the three big guys struggling right now. The third man has been great. Where you at with Strom? Because he hasn't, at no point this season, has he looked like the guy that we saw the last two years. Yeah, yeah. And that looks more like workload related from last year.

Which is possible, you know? I mean, they've asked him to do a lot. Yep, and he's pitch a ton. I mean, when he first got here, they had him start games. Sorry, yeah, and he did good. And he was good. He was good. So he clearly has a home run problem right now. I mean, it seems like got here, they had him start games. Sorry, yeah, and he did good. And he was good. He was good. So he clearly has a home run problem right now. I mean, it seems like every time he goes out there.

It's what it is, yeah. Home runs are killing him. I think the fastball looks a little flat and dead. So hopefully as the season goes on. I didn't think he looked, it was a shame, because I didn't think he looked horrible the other night. Like, it didn't look like a disaster. He just made the one bad pitch and it got smoked. But yeah, it looks a little bit like the innings

the last couple years are starting to catch up to them. And it's a shame too, because they can't really do anything about it. I think in a perfect world, they would love to phantom Ielum with something. Like right now would be a good time to do it. Like give them a month before the All-Star break. They can't.

And Tanner Banks has been really good. Tanner Banks has been great. Like credit where due. I am so with you in that he is one of my all-time watch and pitch and don't understand how the guys are getting out. It's like when you watch, and this is, he's better, obviously much better at this,

but it's like when you watch a position player in late innings, you know, a blowout game or whatever, and they'll like, you know, go one, two, three, and strike out, and you're like, what's happening here? Why, why is this happening? Like, Tanner Banks is like the real pitcher version of that. I don't get it when I see it, but he's getting out. Yep, and it's sort of, it's sort of,

Deception. It's sort of Brad Handish. Yeah, it's deception. You know, where you don't believe it. It's, you know, you can't see the ball well, all that stuff, it's the, you know, but it's not, it just doesn't feel impressive, ever. He hit 94 the other night. I couldn said that can't no way real no way But I will say he to his credit. He's a lefty

They'll come in and throw strikes and that's all you can ask for sometimes from lefty because usually they're a little bit wild Yeah, so yeah, so but those are the only two in the pen Yeah, I know I know you really don't have a lot of margin for it. You can't do anything with Shrom right now, which thanks, because I think that he needs some time off here to get right, because I think right now you're just looking at it more, I mean this is workload. They're trying to get by right now.

Don't have a choice. Don't have a choice. Aburado really screwed him, man. It really, it sucks, because at least with an injury, you could Yeah. It really, it sucks. Cause at least with like an injury, you could be like, well, you know, guys get hurt and that sucks and I'm bummed about it. But this one just feels like it's, I get like angry.

I get angry when I think about it more than sad. Like if it had been an injury, I'd be sad when I think about it. I get angry cause it's so avoidable. Well, and then you look at a game like Sunday in Pittsburgh where you have to extend Chris Anche as another batter with a lefty starting the inning. And then it's like in the walk and then the rest is history, yeah.

That's Alvarado's spot. You're right. That's Straum's spot. So yeah, they are, it is, it is dire out in the field. It's dire, yeah, and especially because, look, it's one thing for these guys to come in and get some outs against the Blue Jays or the, you know, the Marlins in a regular season game. We all know, we watched playoff baseball the last few years.

Like we know how much more like every pitch matters every pitch is intense everything is locked in like everyone's at the top of their game like just imagine in a big spot like Here comes Joe Ross in the playoffs in a huge spot like I just man like I don't like it, Jack. I don't know what else to say. Which worries you more? Which worries you more? The five through nine in the lineup?

Or is it when the bullpen doors open? This was an interesting poll question we had this week on the morning show. Interesting poll question. And I almost didn't know which way to go on it. And ultimately the answer is both, because like I wouldn't trade for just a reliever. I would need more to like, if you're really gonna do something, don't waste the prospect and half measure it.

But if you have to choose what's more important, an outfielder or a relief pitcher, and up until this week, I would've hammered the relief pitcher, but now I'm thinking a bat probably is more important, I don't know. I know. They're both so dire if this team's really going to do something. Yeah.

Look at both. I think they will, too. Look at both. It's just a question, but you know, if they're Austin Hayes and Sarant, you're on a trading Sarant. That's Stavis. Yeah, it's Stavis.

Thank you, geez, Louise. Yep. Ah, Jack. Two and three. Two and three. Two and three. Got the Blue Jays coming to town. Dude, it's so dumb. We just play the Blue Jays. I know. Two or three. Got the Blue Jays coming down. Dude, it's so dumb.

We just played the Blue Jays. I know. You can't spread out the Blue Jays. Why don't you spread it out? I know, it's so dumb. It's such a bad scheduling. It's a bad product doing it that way. But Blue Jays coming down.

The Pat Gillick Bowl. Oh man, who gets to claim them as their own? Probably them. Probably them. I mean, considering he was there for like 16 years and he was here for like three, but he did kind of end here. Like he always-

He's still here? Yeah. He's still an advisor. So you know what? Like all we know is the Orioles and Mariners, they don't count. Like he's either a Blue J or a Philly, so that's good. Man, Blue J did that.

What a run dude. Dude, he did the freaking hundred and 16-win Mariners. He went to the playoffs three straight years with those Orioles teams. Yeah, pretty good. He is one of the best. He's only one of like eight or nine general managers in the whole of fame.

Like he's one of the best ever. And it's so funny because, you know, in reading stories around that time, he had this like nickname of Stan Pat. And it's like, maybe we should just trust the guy. You know, the sports writers are like, are you gonna do something Pat? Honestly, those Blue Jays teams, and it's funny because they are like, you're gonna do something, Pat? Honestly, those Blue Jays teams,

and it's funny because they beat us, but we don't talk about it enough, like those are the most, like we never talk about them as like the great teams of all time. They are some of the greatest teams of all time. I mean, they have talent, the whole fame, I mean, Ricky Henderson, Roberto Alomar, Dave Winfield, fricking-

Was Oluhuru on those teams? Oluhuru was on those teams. I mean, just around the, Amaliter, you know, World Series MVP. Like, they, I mean, they had frickin' Jack Morris and Dave Stewart and Jimmy Key and like Was David Cohn on them? To Pat Henken, David Cohn, yes!

Like, it was just like, like we don't, Tony Fernanda, I mean, like the amount of dudes they had on those teams, we just don't, I don't think we talk about it enough. Like, those were like special, special teams. No one talks't I don't think we talk about enough like those were like special special teams no one talks about the early 90s blue Pack like what a genius. That's all I saw someone walking around an expo shirt in Westchester I love I want to stop. I do I love expose here when I see it

I'm like in on the person. I'm like in on you. I'm in on you you get it. Yeah, I am Yeah, I'm proud that I at least remember watching the Expos in Montreal. It's important and remembering Vlad Guerrero Yeah, and Jose Veedra a Pedro when he was there Walker I don't remember those Yeah, I thought so I I thought so, yeah. He gets it. They were awesome, 94, that was, like I very rarely, especially after, you know,

we were in the World Series, I very rarely feel bad for other teams. Like I felt so bad that year for the Expos. Like they were so awesome. They were so clearly the best, them and the Indians were the best teams of baseball, like bar none. And Gwynn could have hit four.

And Gwynn was in like 390-something when it happened. And Griffey was going to break the home run record. So much cool stuff. It's gonna be a great year. Guess what? It's probably gonna happen in 2026. There you go. There's gonna be another work stoppage.

Oh, I know. I know. For real, honestly, we haven't talked much about this, but it seems like incredibly likely. Oh, it's gonna happen. Yeah, like, I think it's almost a lock that there'll be a work stoppage. Yeah, I mean, like, if you only had an increase in ratings, Like it seems like incredibly likely. Oh, it's gonna happen. Yeah, like I think it's almost a lock that there'll be a work stop.

Yeah, I mean, like you've only had an increase in ratings. People are talking positively about the game. Yeah, the pitching clock changed everything. Like it's like people are excited. Yeah, good, great. Good timing. It's our sport, buddy. You have, you have.

I love the way our sport goes about his business. You have stars, you have stars in big markets finally that you're not watching the finals with the Pacers. Yeah, all the big market teams are good. The Dodgers are good, the Mets are good, the Yankees are good, you got the teams you want good. Cubs are good, Phillies are good. Yeah, I know.

Let's just stop that. Stop all the forward momentum you have. Because you're fighting over a salary floor and a salary gap. I mean, the strike down was one of the worst things in my lifetime that's ever happened to sports. They didn't have a World Series for Christ's sake, you know? It's pretty crazy.

It's crazy, right? I know. Yep. So interesting stuff here in the take back as always. But do you see what Jim Bowden wrote? I do not. The Phillies front office is determined to land a dominant back end of the bullpen reliever

and I'm sure they will do so before the trade deadline. I'm sure, okay Jim, yeah. Jim Bowden lost all credibility with me last trade deadline. He's like, oh, Dave Dabrowski, I know he's gonna go, he's gonna make a huge trade, trust me, I know Dave, lock it in, huge trade. It's like, all right Jim.

When he has a chance to win a World Series, Dave Dabrowski doesn't do it. Yeah, I'm good on you. He goes all in. Yeah, I'm good on you. Bowden, Bowden. Bowden, Bowden, whatever. Then he said, if the Orioles don't get back in the race,

Felix Bautista could be Philly's best option for that. Look. Two years after this year, so under control. Yeah, so he's control, which I like the idea. He's looked good since coming back. We love Felix Bautista. We are in the idea. He's looked good since coming back. Like, we love Felix Buntes, we are in on that. He's going to cost a lot. Like Crawford, I think is a minimum top piece in the deal.

Well, and then do you try to get Mullins in that deal too? Well, I think if you're gonna include Crawford, you probably have to, right? And Mullins hasn't been very good this year. No. He hasn't been good for a couple of years. He does have a pretty good contract too. No, he's the free agent.

Oh, okay, all right, so the contract's up. Yeah. Okay, all right, I mean, that's fine. I. Oh, okay, all right, so the contract's up. Yeah. Okay, all right, I mean, that's fine. I would take a shot on Mullins. I guess. I'm not excited about it, but I would do it with Batista. He wouldn't be my outfield move, but I'd rather see Cedric Mullins

and Brandon Marsh in center field, if I had to choose. Marsh is heating up. Oh, buddy, why he's not hurt. I'm getting ready to do the, well, Kepler's slowly looking all right, I just don't totally buy it. I don't trust him, no. I don't buy it.

I was wondering about just go with a Rojas in center and Marsh in left, little run here. What a great line up that would be. That's super fun, I can't wait to see that. At least I'll catch the ball. Yeah. At least I'll catch the ball. Especially with the range that you're getting

in right field. I will say. It'd be nice to have Rojas out there. With Bowden saying that, and then the Nightingale report the other day. And then the Louise Robert report, we're back. And then Rosenthal the other day on one of the podcasts or whatever said something similar

with Pay on the Morning Show. So I do think the Phillies are putting it out there that they're looking to make those. Well, they were linked to Louise Robert again, which is always exciting. There we go. Always exciting. Back.

Would still take a shot. He's been horrible. He's been so bad. He's been horrible. Terrible. Basically, since you last year said you wanted to trade for him, he's like falling off a cliff. He's hitting 184.

But he does have seven homers or whatever. I'm just saying. If it's not going to cost one of your top five prospects, I'd take a shot at Luis Robert. I do think it's funny, and I saw someone tweet about Eloy Jimenez, like a similar type of thing, but it is funny to think that the Pope knows

about Luis Robert and has an opinion on Luis Robert. He's disappointed. Isn't that funny? Like the Pope has an opinion about Luis Robert. Yeah. Love that. You seen him wearing a white socks cap the other day? Aw, shout out to the Pope. Shout out to the Pope.

Yeah. He could swing me. Nice. Nice. So I still would take Lewis Roberts. I'm just letting everyone know. Sure. Letting everyone know.

Schedule's pretty brutal until the All-Star break. It is. It gets pretty tough coming up here. I think they have the sixth toughest schedule in baseball for the rest of the year. Terrific. Well, we're going to put that playing good teams thing to the test, huh Terrific. They got it. Well, we're gonna put that playing good teams thing to the test, huh? Yep, they got it well.

And they just got it. Give me 500 baseball until the trade deadline. Well, it wouldn't be really not asking for much here. Just 500 baseball. Yeah, just. Stay 10 games over. Stay 10 games over. I definitely don't want Harper to rush back.

Like I. Well, I agree with that. It's clear that he, I mean, Harper, throughout his entire time here, but he's clearly a Harper to rush back. Like, I... Well, I agree with that. It's clear that he... I mean, Harper threw out his entire time here, but he's clearly a play-through, rush-back. You know, he's just that guy. I mean, he's rushed back from every injury he's had. We have...

Every injury. We have a month until the All-Star break. Just take the month. Chill, dude. Hopefully they can survive. But just take the month. Yeah. Just take the month.

I mean, look, that run, the bedlam at the bank run, the best playoff run Harper's had, that was after missing, like, two months or whatever and then coming back and getting fresh by the playoffs. Like, I think there's real, real legitimacy to Bryce Harper needing to be told. Hey, dude, chill out. And it could be a noble thing, too.

Like, I think, I think they, in a perfect world, I think they would like to manage that IL thing with the starters too. Which they need to again, that's part of what we're talking about, these guys are in their 30s now. They're not kids anymore. Bryce Harper's gonna be 33 in October. You gotta protect yourself,

or you gotta protect him from self-sufficiency. By the way, Wheeler looked fine. He looked fine. With six days rest or whatever it was. Looked just as dominant as ever. So you have a plethora of starting pitching. The painter thing in AAA. Not to do I tried to tell you with him.

Oh I know, you warn people. The fastball's not back yet. That's the biggest issue with Andrew Painter is that it's a flat fastball that's getting smoked. That has to get better before, he'll get called up and whatever, they'll figure it out. But like, Mick Able. He might struggle when he comes up is the point.

Mick Able gives him a better chance to win right now than Andrew Painter does. Which is crazy to be saying that in 2025. But Painter's coming off tummy-on surgery still, like yeah. The fastball is a problem. It's currently a problem. It's one of those things where it's like, throw a 98, great, but if it doesn't miss back. Yeah, yeah, we know all about it.

So that's the pitch that has to get better. He's gonna be great, not concerned at all about how good he's gonna be. I'm not all of a sudden like, hey, maybe we should trade Andrew Payne at the trade deadline. Not there, he's gonna be amazing. But for the people that are saying

he's gonna make an immediate impact right now, that's where we're like, I don't know. And look, I don't think it's fair to put any of that on any of these kids. Like Otto Kemp when he came up, Mick, Painter, Crawford if he's called up, they're kids, man. You can't expect them to come in and be the savior.

Like honestly, that is, that's crazy. And that's why the old adage is you don't bring up prospects when you're struggling. Yeah. Because then it puts extra like, you got, if they call Justin Crawford, people are like, this is good, he's gonna hit 340. He's gonna be the savior,

and we got to center field, or the future, let's go. I, again, hope so. I hope so. Yeah, maybe. I just, it happens every year with prospects where it's like They're raking in triple a that means oh And I'm up here. Yeah, so now there's obviously real things that are happening There's real things that are happening like you could watch McCabe and say that stuff plays the big league level mm-hmm does You could also see auto camp versus breaking balls in the minor leagues being a real issue.

And he can definitely rake fastballs. He can kill fastballs, but against spin, we'll see. And again, Crawford has a 63% ground ball rate. And he's currently hurt, which is a shame. It's crazy. You got a quad cramp was the last thing we heard. He's missed the entire week. That is weird.

It's an odd one. The cramp should not, yeah. It's a cramp. So hopefully there's not more there, but the painer thing's a bummer, but it's a little bit of a reminder that these are 21, 22, 23-year-olds. He's coming off tummy-down surgery.

It's okay to let him take his time to get to where he can be, I totally agree. I do think it's interesting, speaking of Harper and the minor leagues, I thought it was interesting that Keaton Anthony was put in Lehigh Valley yesterday. So Keaton Anthony, under-acted kid, double A, hitting over 330, like 15 multi-hit games,

really good hitter. But that suggests to me, and the fact that they put Kemp at first base, that Kemp's not going down anytime soon. That Harvard's gonna be out for a little while. You're not bringing up Keaton Anthony just for like a week stint and then sending him back to Reading.

I think he's up there to obviously help the lineup and play a little bit, but I think that's an interesting one. And then last thing, speaking of being confused, we're officially a month away from the LMB draft, and I have no idea who I want them to take. All my guys are gonna, all my guys I wanted seem like they're gonna go earlier.

I mean, usually you have a list. I have a. We're gonna do it, don't worry, we're gonna cover it, we're gonna talk all about it. I know. But that, so wow, this is a weird year for us. I know. It's not a great draft. It, this is a weird year for us. I know. It's not a great draft.

It's not a great draft to be picking at 27. So I don't love many of the arms. I don't love many of the bats. I don't like a college kid. Good. They're not gonna, probably not gonna take a college kid. I'm currently stuck. I'm stuck.

Wow. I don't know what, again, I've kind of been perusing the draft stuff, haven't gotten fully all in yet, but my early watches, I'm a little lost. Oh wow. All my guys are going early.

We got a lot of work to do here. We gotta really dig in. I believe in you. Thank you. All right. Quickly shout out to our Miller Lite account of the week. Ray Azteca. Today's Miller Lite bar of the week is Ray Azteca in Warminster.

We watch all Philly's games with a $3 Miller Lite Pine Special. That's a great deal. Go to Ray. That's R-E-Y Azteca at Warminster.com. All right, Fritzy, two or three Blue Jays? No, they got only one of three. Okay, alright, this is where we're at. No, two or three.

Alright, hopefully I think two or three. The nice part about where they're at is that even when they're questionable in the ball bank, questionable in the lineup, you can still try out that rotation and feel pretty damn good. You're right, yeah. To the point of what you said, if you just need them to maintain and play 500 baseball, they should be able to do that with their pitching staff, you know, if nothing else. So all right, we'll see what goes.

We'll be back after the weekend. Until then, use for it themselves. Are you ready to dive into the story stats and personalities that make baseball the greatest game in the world? Rob Bradford from the baseball's and boring podcast here and we'll have you covered every day with podcasts that bring you closer to the action. From the bleachers to the clubhouse, whether you're a die-hard fan or just a casual observer, these conversations are aimed to educate, entertain, and most importantly, inform you. Follow the Baseballs and Boring podcast in the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your

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