High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - The Phillies Problems are Much More Than Gabe Kapler

Episode Date: August 13, 2019

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back as we are less than a week away from High Hopes Night at the Ballpark! The guys talk about Gabe, this team and the organizational problems. See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the High Hopes Podcast. High Hopes. It's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the Philadelphia Phillies on Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo, it is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast. Jack, you remember when the O used to be a fun thing to start the podcast with? Remember when we had hopes? Yes, we have hopes. They're just very, very low right now. Not the name of the podcast with? Remember when we had hopes? Yes. We have hopes. They're just very, very low right now. Not the name of the podcast.

But we do have high hopes about one thing, Jack. And then we'll talk about everything else that sucks. But August 17th is this Saturday, Jack. And it's high hopes night at the ballpark. And even though this team is infuriating and we hate them right now, we're going to have a blast down there. Last chance to get your tickets. My pinned tweet's pin tweet uh reduced tickets we are going to have a tailgate at a time we're gonna meet in jet row lot jack and i'll get there at like 4 30 or something come at

five or whenever you want we're gonna be hanging in jet row we're gonna be drinking beers we're gonna have a blast we're gonna meet up before the game. Just coming out with us, even though the team stinks, we'll have fun, Jack. Yeah. Well, we may not be watching the best baseball team and maybe the fourth best team in the NL East, but we're going to be having fun together. And we can express our frustration. And here's the thing is that i feel like everyone in high hopes nation

everyone listens to this podcast everyone that is planning on coming to high hopes night like i feel like we're all in this collective space where we love this team like we all love the phillies but right now we're like disappointed parents like we're just we're just constantly looking down on them like i'm not mad at you just very disappointed although i will say i'm definitely mad at andy mcphail i'm more i'm more or less disappointed in everyone else but andy mcphail is is like he's like the uncle that no one likes to hang out with at dinner like no one really wants to talk to andy mcphail but he's like there and he's like the awkward one that you know doesn't really get along with everyone else in the family.

That's Andy McPhail. Everyone else, we love them. We're just very disappointed. That's a good analogy. I don't want to hang out with Uncle Andy. Don't make me do it. Oh, you know, he lives, like, the most boring life ever, like, goes to vineyards. Doesn't he look like a guy that just, like, goes to wine vineyards and just stays there for hours?

I've never thought of a guy being a vineyard guy, but yeah, I can see it. Come on, you know Andy's a vineyard guy. Uncle Andy loves the vineyards. Yeah, he's pretentious. He's the worst. Yeah. Well, those are true. I'm with you, man. So, look, while we're all disappointed, as Jack put it, we'll come and we'll say hi to our family,

our children that have disappointed us. And we can tell them how much they've disappointed us in person. How about that? Mostly Nick. Mostly, yeah, many. Mostly Bryce, Nick. I don't know. Many.

Reese, I mean, there's so much disappointment in one baseball team. So coming out, I hope, August 17th, we really will have a blast, I promise. Now let's get to it, Jack. Wait, hold on. I was thinking about today. I was thinking about today. Listen, I'll bring my glove. I'll bring an extra glove.

Oh, will you now? We can mess around and have a catch. I like that idea. Not play catch, have a catch oh not like that idea not play catch have a catch have a catch that was just ridiculous that was even a thing although i can't i can't like you know i i i physically can't feel my arm right now oh look at you jack playoff fritz listen i i know a lot of people you know that talk about the greatest postage pitchers of our generations. I would say it would be one Schilling, two Baumgartner, three Fritz. Oh, really?

People that live up to the expectation when the lights are shining in brightness are those three. I was not pitching that well this year. Wow. Once it was playoff time, it was like, oh, I have to put my team on the back. Wow. Look at this. I have to put my team on the back. Wow. Look at this. So in a must-win situation,

I'd rather hand the ball to Jack Fritz than Josh Beckett. Okay. Some would say that. You know who you would not give? You would definitely. Okay, sure. Okay. You wouldn't give the ball to Cliff Lee

because he'd probably blow up one of them. Oh, buddy. Hey, now. Why don't we just dive right in right there um man all right so coming out i hope tonight that's the fun part now the not fun part what the what the hell jack what the hell just happened in san francisco five of seven on the west coast trip we came in and talked after the arizona series and we were incredibly disappointed and it was a very cathartic angry podcast and then they lost three of four man Coast trip. We came in and talked after the Arizona series and we were incredibly disappointed and it was a very cathartic, angry podcast. And then they lost three of four, man. They lost

three of four to the Giants. They didn't even show up the first game. One hit by Mad Bum. They didn't show up against Samarja in game three. The offense has just been a disaster. Bryce Harper, yay! First multi-homer game as a Philly way to go, Bryce. In case you can't tell, I'm mocking him, Jack. I am mocking. That's where we're at on August 12th. I'm mocking Bryce Harper. That's how I feel right now.

Oh, that's just mean. Why? Why is it mean? Play better, Bryce. Play better. He's been playing fine. Oh, God. Oh, man.

He's been playing fine. Stop defending Bryce Harper. I will not. I will not stop picking on Bryce. he's been playing fine oh god oh man he's been playing fine stop defending bryce harford i will not i will not stop picking on bryce um yeah i mean here's the crazy thing so the one hit three hit and then the game last night happens which was just a meltdown right um the one hit game no one was watching because the eagles but i tuned in for a little bit, and it was just like, oh, you're just not going to play tonight? Like, that's the route we're going with. Jack, it takes a lot for a baseball game to be worse than preseason football.

They did it. They made it happen. I don't know, man. They made it happen. They made it happen. It takes everything to make that happen. But Saturday, like, you just faced samarja 11 days ago and there was no change there was no difference in offensive game plans like they knew what

jeff samarja was gonna do it was gonna be fastballs and cutters all he's gonna do all day long coming out of the same arm slot one moves more than the other it's a good game plan it's a good solid game plan but like if you listen to the pregame show and the manager show and you listen to, like, the quotes after the game, I mean, you'd think they're talking about, like, a Cy Young winner. Like, they talk about Jeff Samarja. Like, he is an absolute superstar that cannot be figured out, even though he's been terrible for, like, six years in a row.

But Jeff Samarja, like, oh, man, we just couldn't figure him out after 11 days ago and we're just going to try the same exact thing that we did 11 days ago. Like, that's the most damning thing about John Maylee so far. It's like you just faced the guy and you decided that, hey, the first time didn't work. Let's do it again. Like, it makes no sense.

It makes absolutely no sense. They're a team that doesn't make any adjustments they are a flat team their team doesn't play inspired and um when you when you punt at the deadline and don't give them a chance like this is kind of what happens i mean this is what we're looking at we're looking at a team that knows their front offices and believe in them didn't give them enough horses to compete with and they essentially in in year one of the window quote unquote being open just said

no we're not gonna we're not gonna do anything this year just a total total bust total waste of the year and I can't believe that it's I honestly can't believe it's gotten to this point where it's where it's this bad where it feels like it's gotten to this point where it's this bad. Where it feels like it's happening again?

Where it feels like the exact same thing that happened last year except with a more talented team is happening again, Jack? I mean, in all the variations of how I thought this season could play out, none of them had another collapse at the end of the season. And granted, they have 44 games to change that, but we said this on the last pod, and it feels the same, doesn't it? It feels like it's happening. It feels like we're at the beginning of the collapse,

and they're not going to get better. They don't show up. They don't show up for games, man. How many times can they come out and just lay an egg? Again, this is a series where they had just lost two of three of the White Sox, who stink out loud, lost two of three in Arizona, and they go into San Francisco, and two of the four games they don't even show up?

They don't even come to play? I just like to use the term stink out loud. I mean, you really are becoming a dad, you know, right? What can I say, man? What can I say? They stink out loud. Speaking of stinking out loud, did you see this Corey Seidman tweet from today? How about this?

The Phillies ranked since the All-Star break. 26th in runs scored. 27th in batting average. 26th in slugging percentage. 25th in OPS. 26th in extra base hits. They have been one of the worst teams in baseball offensively since the all-star break jack one of the worst teams in baseball yeah i'm pretty sure that i'm pretty sure

that cory said it today on on his podcast that lit that they've been playing they've been playing for i don't know two months or whatever, like a 70-win baseball team. Like their run differentials, everything is that of a 70-win baseball team. So you know how like when Joel Embiid plays and is on the court for the Sixers, they play like a 60, like finals contending team, and when he doesn't play, they're basically a lottery team? The Phillies just have been playing like one of the worst teams in baseball for over two months. And I think the thing that is so frustrating is just that there's just nothing being done about it.

There's just nothing being done about it. They're just rolling the same thing out there and hoping that it just changes. And they're betting on these guys just figuring it out. What if they don't figure it out? What if they just have a bad year? And I just can't believe that they don't figure it out like what if they just have a bad year and and i i just can't believe that they're just they're just letting it happen again like it's the only difference between this year's team and last year's team is that the collapse is happening in august

versus september so like what is september going to be like what is september going to be like in that ballpark because no one's going to go like that's that's that's the thing that happens when you don't go for it a little bit the deadline is that teams just lose a ton of interest or fans just lose a ton of interest like who's going to go to the ballpark in september like there's no point in going anymore because there's nothing there's nothing to fight for there's nothing to cheer for and when you you're gonna go in this offseason and unless you come out with a garrett cole or an anthony rendon or something like the fan expectations aren't going to be that high heading heading into next season like they're effectively they've effectively killed fan excitement until hopefully next year they go on

a run like you know what i mean oh yeah i know what you mean that's incredible i mean it's incredibly disappointing i mean it's so like when we think about where this team is at when they signed Bryce Harper the first week of the season, we talk so much about the excitement and how this is a Phillies town. Like, when this team is good, people are all in. People are dying for this team to be good. Literally dying. Dying.

And, I mean, seriously, though. And then for it to just be this and the no effort and like you said i do think obviously i think not investing in the team at the deadline was a message to both the fan base and the players that the front office didn't believe in this team and doesn't believe in them enough to really go for anything this season but that also doesn't excuse the players themselves i mean no you know you can't just say oh the front office didn't add guys so that they're not competing i mean that's bs2 i mean they still have to play better they still have to compete they still have to have some sort of internal fire and again i i think that it comes back on capler too like you know again the players have to play better but ultimately this team doesn't show up way too often. And as we've talked about, there's a manager who is embroiled in this

city as the number one figure of derision. And, you know, the person who is on that pulpit just getting destroyed day after day after day after day. And these guys don't do anything for him. Like they don't show up for him. They don't say our guy this guy we care about this guy we play for this guy we fight for he's in it right now let's get his back i haven't seen that once i haven't seen this team stick up for this guy once either in their play or off the field and i think that matters too i just think and to your point about the offseason, I mean, it's really, it's depressing. It's depressing to think about because it's dead on.

I mean, you look at, like we talk about all the time, you look at the Braves, like the Braves are just young and getting better. They're going to be better. They're on the upward trend right now, and they're already way better than this Phillies team. The Dodgers aren't getting any worse. It's just, I'm with you, man. I think that, and it's incredibly frustrating because in the last year, we've felt so much positivity and like things are changing.

This is the turnaround. The Phillies are going to be a big boy again. We haven't seen any of it. And look, I'm with you. Garrett Cole, Anthony Rendon, that would be awesome. I think those are moves that need to be made or one of those moves needs to be made if there's going to be any sort of real excitement

or if there's some sort of unexpected trade or whatever. But I'm with you. It's a bleak existence right now as a Phillies fan. It's not as exciting as we thought it was going to be. Two championships since 1883. There's a reason. I mean, there's a reason why they're in that position. Two championships since 1883.

And I was thinking about this over the weekend when I was, again, watching. Just think about the amount of time that we spend watching this team. I know. To watch this team every night, and I think the most frustrating thing about where we're at with this Phillies team is that, sure, we watch every night. We watch every night, and then we're just BS'd in the postgame.

Like, I know what Gabe Kapler says doesn't matter. Like, ultimately, none of it matters like if the players whatever he's doing behind closed doors all that matters but like it's just like the blind the blindness of what i feel like he's watching like it doesn't make any sense to me you can't say that your team goes down scratching and clawing and then like you just battling it out and then they never do it like They never, ever do it. And that's how I felt watching the team this weekend. I'm not stupid. I watch this team

every night. I've seen the problems since May, I feel like. And nothing's been fixed. There's no fight. There's no energy. Friday night happens and it was awesome and the Bryce stuff. That's what I'm saying. There's been moments this year when I thought this team might go on a run

and they might step up to the plate and they might take advantage of, like, an inspiring win. Like, Friday night was an awesome, awesome win. And they can just never get it going. They can never capitalize on it. Like, it's insane. And they're going to keep doing this thing where it's like, oh, well, we've got time.

Well, there's 45 games left. 44. 44 games left. Like, eventually you're going to run out of time like they did last year. So to just be doing the same thing, it's just – it feels like we're just watching a replay of the 2018 season. And ultimately, this is what I'm trying to get at is that the decision to choose Ruben Amaro Jr. over Mike Arbuckle is ultimately why we're in this situation I was looking at Mike Arbuckle and what he did from 1992 to 2001 and we're talking about like Roland, Utley, Rollins, Howard, Hamels like the

core of that Phillies team was all built by Mike Arbuckle. I know people give Ed Wade a lot of credit, but it was built by Mike Arbuckle. It was the only time in their franchise's lifespan that they've had consistently good drafting. And then they let Mike Arbuckle go for Ruben Amaro, and Ruben Amaro trades away all the prospects, gives away all the money, and ultimately led the Phillies to where they are now, where they are in the dumpster, and they had to build themselves out of it. And I just, I was, it's very frustrating knowing that it could have been a simple decision back in 2008 at this point, 2009 at this point,

that could have changed the whole trajectory of this franchise. I've been doing a lot of deep thinking about this Phillies team and this organization to where the Mike Arbuckle thing is now keeping me up at night, James. I was not expecting that, Jack. Yeah, I went down on Mike Arbuckle rabbit hole on Saturday.

And helped the Royals win a World Series from Mike Arbuckle. Of course he did. He left here and then took a team to the back-to-back World Series, winning one of them. He's unbelievable. And we said, no, we're going to go with Ruben Amaro Jr. And it's those kind of decisions that have ultimately come back and haunted this team.

I mean, to hire Andy McPhail, the guy who built the 91 Twins, and to hire Matt Klintzak, who came from the Angels, and the Orioles, who are both not forward-thinking organizations at all, and asking them to build this thing from the ground up, it's hindering this team. Teams go through rebuilds, and they have blue-chip talent out of them.

This team goes through a rebuild, and they're giving their number one pitching prospect away for a 28-year-old catcher who is now the best defensive player in the sport, which is great, but his offense is going to be better. They paid a right fielder $330 million. They have Reese Hoskins. They have decent players. There's no stars in the system. I think Alec Boehm could be a star. I think Spencer Howard could be a number two, number three kind of guy, but when teams go through

rebuilds, it is supposed to be bearing way more fruit than what the Phillillies have went through and now it feels like they're gonna have to buy their their their way to a championship and that doesn't work ultimately that doesn't that isn't sustainable yeah no i look i've i've been coming to this realization a lot lately and slowly and you've been the recipient of my many you know i just watched rafael devers knock another ball into the left field corner why don't we have a rafael devers i just watch jordan alvarez just hit another 440 foot home run why don't we have a jordan alvarez i mean it's

if you watch a lot of baseball and you watch a lot of these teams there's so much like acuna we talk about all the time bellinger in los ang Angeles. I mean, all these good teams have young, great players. Young, great players. Players who are homegrown, who are future stars of the league. And the Phillies don't have any of those guys. They don't have one. They don't have a single one. And we're talking about teams like, again, the Dodgers.

The Dodgers already have these guys in the majors, and they've got like Gavin Lux just waiting to come up. Dustin Mayhew's just come up. I mean, it's like a never-ending pool. I mean, the Astros, like we've talked about, Kyle Tucker would step into the Phillies team right now and be their cleanup hitter or their five hitter or whatever, be one of the three or four best bats in the lineup today.

And that guy can't even get to the major league roster because they're too talented in the major leagues. I mean, and those are the types of things like houston they had a rebuild and they come out of it with george springer and jose altuve alex bregman and jordan alvarez and kyle tucker waiting in the wings and all these freaking studs like that's what's supposed to happen when you rebuild like this when you're the worst team in baseball for three four five years you're supposed to come out of it with real assets that you build with moving forward including trading your major league talent for young guys that was another issue they waited too long the whole amaro thing

i mean what they could have gotten for hamels for howard for any of these guys if they had traded them earlier i mean howard got hurt and who knows but any of these guys if you traded them earlier you could have gotten something for them. And they didn't. They didn't. I mean, we talk about the Hamels trade all the time. You know, Jorge Alfaro being a part of that Romulo trade. That's it.

That's it. That's the only asset they got from trading goal Hamels. I mean, that's embarrassing. That's embarrassing. Well, and I think that just modern baseball has changed so much. Like, all the best teams, not only do they have the best farm systems, but they also are the best at finding undervalued talent. Like, the Yankees.

Gio Urshela, just for cash considerations last year from the Blue Jays. Like, Luke Voigt for Chase and Street. Mike Tauchman. Like, Mike Tauchman for a double-A reliever. Like, to go along with the core they already have built of Glaber, Judge, Severino, Sanchez, and they have plenty of, like, Debbie Garcia is coming up through the system. Flora, what's actually the outfitter's name?

Florio? Florio? Florio? Florio? Yeah. He's an outfitter for name? Florio? Florio? Florio? Florio? Yeah. He's an outfitter for the Yankees. No, I don't know who you're talking about. You know who I'm talking about?

Whatever. I might know it if you had not butchered the name so bad. Yeah, if I didn't butcher the name, this would be going a lot better. But, like, they haven't shown the ability to find undervalued talent and also have a farm system that can just keep bringing in more and more talent. And I can't believe that, like, J.D. Davis was a guy that— J.D. Davis, brother. Actually—

J.D. Of course, he's great. He's been back, like, 307. He's been really good for the Mets. It's stuff like that. It's stuff like that. Why didn't you just take a shot on him? They continue to double down on players who aren't good enough.

How did they not see that Michael Franco was not a good player? How did they not just take a shot on someone else? Why are they so mad? Like Gio Urshela. Gio Urshela, perfect example. That guy was a farmhand, practically, for the Indians. He was a guy who they said, oh, he's an outstanding defensive third baseman, but he's probably never going to hit.

And he's hitting. Well, that's what good player development does. Exactly. There's just so much wrong with this team. There's just so much wrong. And honestly, with this team there's just there's just so much wrong and honestly what makes me so nervous not nervous but like whatever as annoyed is that at the end of the season they're probably gonna fire capler and regardless of what you think about gabe capler this whole thing is not gabe capler's fault like this team is not like he was asked to

get major out the other night from r Suarez into Hector Neris. These guys are taking down important spots in a ball game on a team that's supposed to be competing for a second wild card. You can't blame the manager for that. But I feel like McPhail and Klintak are going to fire Gabe

Kapler at the end of the year and they're going to say, oh, well, the bad man's gone. That's not going to fix anything. It's not going to say, oh, well, the bad man's gone. Well, that's not going to fix anything. It's not going to fix anything because ultimately the problems come from so much more than just Gabe Kapler and the on-the-field product.

This is an organizational dysfunction is what this is. It's organizational dysfunction. They have not shown the ability to build a farm system to to continue to draft they haven't drafted well since mike arbuckle um and and it's just very they are a dumb very dumb baseball team yeah that's an indictment i mean that's that's what we fear right and um i think the player development thing is really key.

I think that's when you look at guys like Mike Tauchman and Gio Urshela, and these guys were cast-offs on other teams, and they go to the Yankees, and the Yankees figure them out. The Yankees get them to play great. And I do think that that is – I mean, that's an issue. That's an issue. We don't see that on this team at all. And we certainly don't see, like, a Max Muncy-type guy

where there's this hidden gem that they find and turn into an all-star type player i mean that just the phillies aren't allowed to do that i don't know it doesn't it just won't happen it doesn't happen with this team and i do think that i agree look i agree with the point that it that far too many people place far too much of the blabe on game capler but i do think the blabe the blabe the blabe on game the blame on game wow the blabe all right the blabe he deserves blabe damn it blabe capler that's what i'm gonna call him but he does just he deserves some blame too uh again this team has not shown up for him far too many times there have been too many times and again even if it's not his fault ultimately it's gonna fall back on him it has to fall back on him at some point someone has to to take the hit for that

but i do agree with your your macro point that blaming gabe capler and firing game capler does not solve this problem it doesn't even come close to solving the problem it's a much deeper more endemic problem it's a much bigger issue organizationally. And we hope, and that's why we talk about it a lot. We hope that stuff like Jason O'Chart, like bringing in the driveline guys, that kind of stuff can start to turn things from an organizational perspective, from a philosophy perspective, from an approach perspective, all that. And that takes time. That's not going to happen immediately. He's only been here this season. But I think that on a bigger issue, I think all the evidence we have to date says that Matt Klintak and

Andy McPhail are not the guys to steer the ship. That's what this evidence is telling us. And Klintak has had some good moments. He's made some good trades. but I think the biggest issue like you said is the the consistent failures in player development the consistent failures in drafting and then ultimately the consistent what seems like almost just um laissez-faire attitude to it all like you just said I mean at what point is anyone from McPhail down to the coaching staff going to step up and say, this isn't good enough. This isn't okay. We have to fix this because it doesn't seem like that's happening. No, no.

Nothing's happening. Like, it's almost feels like everything they do is in spite of their fans. Like it's almost like they want to prove or something that they are so much smarter than the average baseball family. Every time that Clint Sack talks, it's almost like I'm way smarter than you and I'm not going to listen to your – It's exactly what it's like. And it's almost like they're just not doing anything because we're demanding them do something. Like, we're saying fire Maylee or fire Chris Young or even fire Gabe,

and they're like, nope, we're going to prove that we're right, even though we're probably wrong. And, like, I just don't get why John Milley still has a job. It's unbelievable. There's no reason for him to still have a job. Like, if you look at watching Reese Hoskins now, like, in his career, he now has his lowest opposite field percentage, and he's pulling the ball 50% of the time.

Wow. Like, that's not Reese Hoskins. Like, Reese Hoskins, when he came up, was a guy who would spray the ball everywhere and, like, with loud contact. And they basically just forced him to cut off half the plate. Like, they're just saying, anything away, just spit on. Like, they'll throw you in. And the pitchers are saying, no, we're just going to pitch you outside

and make you beat us. And he hasn't been able to beat them. In his last 34 games, Reese Hoskins has batted him like 205 with like a 700 OPS. Reese Hoskins is going through a huge swoon again when this team needs him. This team needs Reese Hoskins. It's a great point. It's a great point. I mean, look at September last year. Yeah, yeah last year he went into the absolute tank last year this year the same exact thing is

happening like the last like again the base is loaded last night he's been awful awful he's batting under 200 since the all-star break he's but now he's under 250 for the season yeah and for the first time in what seems like forever the his slugging percentage is below 500 now he's been over 500 all season long the on base percentage which has hovered or been above 400 all season long down to like 385 i mean the numbers are starting to reflect it he's he has been god awful he looks lost at the plate he does look lost at the plate. He does look lost at the plate, but he's also cut off half the plate because of the strategy that John Maile has instituted.

He's cut off half the plate. And pitchers are just saying, okay, well, if you're going to do that, we're going to pitch you outside. Major League pitchers and Major League organizations are too smart to not figure out what you're doing. And I just can't believe that this is what they're going to go with. Reese Hoskins

is a legit, good enough hitter to be batting 280 to 300 like he could be that good and i think i think they're doing him a disservice by turning him into a pull hitting power hitter which is just that he should be a he should be a 25 he should be a 25 to 30 home run guy that bats 280 with the 400 wpP. That's what he should be. And I just feel like they're cutting that off. And it's just another frustration with John Maley for me. Yeah, I'm very with you. And I can't look again.

Like, look at the Mets, all right? The Mets, the New York Mets, who were a joke, right? I mean, they were a joke. We all talked about Mickey Calloway getting fired when they left Philadelphia after that four-game series. Like, that was what we thought was gonna happen. They've won 15 of 17, and they fired their pitching

coach earlier in the season. Now they got some 95-year-old guy out there doing the job, but it didn't hurt them, did it? It's helped them. Whatever they're doing is working right now. The Phillies are in fourth place, Jack. The Phillies are in fourth place. They're in fourth place.

The Miami Marlins are the only team in the NLEs with a better record or worse record than the Phillies. What is that? That is, I would say, not great. Yeah, it's bad, Jack. So I'm very with you. I think, look, the conclusion I've come to with Mailey and the coaches in general is that

they're not going to do something in season. That's the feeling we get, right, at this point. I mean, there have been so many moments where you would think John Mailey would get fired by now. Like today. Like today. I thought someone was getting fired today. Well, especially when Salisbury said something was going to happen

Salisbury who is as connected And alpha as we know on this show As it gets And Salisbury said something was going to happen today Or he said yesterday It was going to be happening yesterday And nothing happened Why do you need to do that

Everything is fine Oh man Everything is fine. Oh, man. Everything's fine. By the way. We don't, we don't, Jack. By the way, Gleyber Torres just hit another home run against the Orioles, which is his 13th of the season.

Wow. That's great. He's got... Oh, gosh. By the way, Reese Hoskins. Basically just Pat Burrell? Oh, gosh. By the way, Reese Hoskins, basically just Pat Burrell? Oh, man.

He's better than Pat Burrell. Are we sure? I am sure. The Phillies are ruining Reese Hoskins. It is unbelievable, though. All right, so at what point when every player who comes here gets worse, does something change? Right? I mean, what point, at what point when every player who comes here gets worse, does something change? Right? I mean, what point?

Everyone gets worse. Bryce Harper's got 21 home runs. 22. 22. 22 home runs. I mean, come on, man. Don't shortchange him. Don't shortchange him.

He's fine. I don't know, man don't shortchange him he's he's fine i don't know man i it's it sure is i just think yeah i mean here's the thing no one's gotten better i mean the only player who's gotten better is scott kingery and he stopped listening to what they want him to do for a majority of the season so that's pretty damning so there's i think there's two things here is that one i think the major league development is completely lacking and it's pretty horrible and no one's getting better which um again i don't i don't think that's the manager i've seen a lot of people being like well who's gotten better under gabe capler and my only thing to that is well like it's not he's a he's a manager he's not a coach like he's not there breaking down players swings like literally gabe capler's job is to develop a lineup develop pitching strategy uh in in-game moves and and bullpen like that's the crux of gabe capler's thing and also hiring good coaching staff what i think has absolutely

killed gabe capler is that he's not hired a good coaching staff this coaching staff has not lived up to to what they need them to be this is supposed to be a coaching staff that was going to take over a young team and get them to the next level the problem is with the coaching staff he's brought in is that everyone's pretty much been hindered in their development which is not great at all two i think that eventually this team needs alec bone to be their four hitter like i think i think of a lineup with whoever won two bryce three four bone five hoskins six real muto like real muto has been relied upon to be the five hitter on this team for the most of this season and he is just he's not a five hole hitter and hoskins while a good hitter and a player that should probably be better than he is,

he's also not a prototypical, you know, cleanup hitter. He's the, like Pat Burrell was the five hitter on a lot of those Phillies things, or even the six hitter. Like they need to find, they need Alec Boehm to be that guy that can be their four hole hitter and let everyone just push down in a lineup to make it that much better. Like there's a path to a good lineup here, but it starts with they need Alec Boehm to come in and be the legitimate number four.

But it's just the coaching staff has just killed this Phillies team. Man. They have. They have. I'm with you. Well, then how don't you blame Kapler? Why are you so far on the other side? Isn't Kapler responsible for his coaches?

Yes, he is. So I think ultimately that has to come back on Gabe, right? Right, but what I'm saying is that people are, like, blaming him. Like, people are saying, why hasn't anyone gotten better under Kapler? It's not like Gabe's job. Like, it's not Gabe's job to be breaking down players swings and and that stuff that's not what that's not a manager that's not what a manager does the manager's job is to is to bring in coaches that can do that and also get the most of those players and and then in game

stuff i just think that too many people are putting a lot of blame on players not getting better under capler when that's not really not really his job ultimately no and I think that's fair but I think ultimately you know it does come back on Kapler and and look I think a big part of it is the organizational philosophy that clearly isn't working and also seems to be implemented poorly as well I mean as you always talk about it seems like they're always a step behind what everyone else is doing and what's working this year is something they're going to employ next year and so on and so forth but yeah that's good yeah oh jack what a what a what a what a fun team to talk about i really i really do think that when they when they eventually move on from capler and i

think it's going to happen this offseason or whatever, I don't really believe the whole Nightingale story. Like, that felt like a Kapler put out thing so that he could say, hey, if you fire me, I'm going to the Giants or something like that. It didn't feel like that was a whole organizational philosophy on Gabe. I do think that they should go for a more experienced guy, like a guy who's been there, a guy that is almost like just a manager. You know what I mean? Like there's a difference between the modern manager and like a manager,

and there are still some managers out there. And I just think that this is a team that is getting a little bit older and they almost need that kind of veteran in the locker room. Like they need a Charlie. They need, they need a guy who's been around the game and has been respected and has experience with that. And I think if they go from Kapler to another young guy,

that's like, doesn't have an experience. I just don't think that's going to work. This team almost needs one of those older guys. Yeah, I'm with you. i really am with you i think especially after capler if if things continue down this this trend and that's i agree i think that i don't think capler keeps his job unless they make the playoffs and i don't think they're

making the playoffs so um if it continues on this trend and they finished five games out four games out whatever it is six games out by the end of September. However, this, this kind of continues down its way. Um, I think that after this Kapler thing, if, if that happens and if they do move on from Kapler, I think just as a response to Kapler alone, you go with someone who's, who's more of a kind of an anti Kapler in that way. Someone who's more of a veteran, someone who has, you know, manage other teams to success, you know? Um, but I think it's someone who's going to have veteran, someone who has, you know, managed other teams to success, you know. But I think it's someone who's going to have to be friendly with analytics. Joe Girardi type, and I don't know if he'd want the job or if they'd want him or whatever, but that type of guy, someone who can marry the veteran baseball thing

and also with the analytics is someone they're going to have to find. So I think it's going to be really interesting, but I totally agree with you. They can't bring another Gabe Kapler type in here after Gabe. It just won't work. And the reception for it will not be good. All right, Fritzy, anything else, anything in the note bag or any other thoughts on the horrendous Giants series? I don't know.

There's not really much in the note bag. There's nothing to talk about. I'm so annoyed with this team right now. Like Pavetta didn't look great this weekend or whatever, which, of course, I mentioned. Talk about the worst possible inning you could ever ask for, like for Penvetta last night with allowing the first hit in Will Smith's seven-year career.

It was just a horrible shelling. But also, like, you pitched him pitched him what three innings on thursday and then bring him back on sunday this is a guy who's been prepared to be a starter most of his career and to just do that i thought was a little weird so um there's that and then everyone's melt like a rod i've never heard a a broadcaster skewer a manager like like a rod did like were you watching last night when a rod yeah the class the uh careless managing and all that yeah and i guess i get it but also like uh kevin pr has or kevin pilar whatever has like a 650 ops against righties um and it's another one of those instances where a player can't execute and it looks terrible for Gabe.

Like, Nick, get the guy out who has struggled against righties this entire season. And none of this is a problem. It feels like everything that Gabe has tried to do this year, like the exact opposite has happened, when it in theory it makes sense it's been a crazy season yeah it really has it really does seem like nothing is going the way it's supposed to go and those types of things but even sound decisions are just going the exact opposite way like like pulling Pavetta in the in the White Sox series for a base is a little one

out like that works like nine times out of ten. Oh, like we said, it would have been malpractice to not pull him in that moment. And it's just like, again, there's another one of those things where everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong for this team this season. And it continued this series. Like, it's just been – I just want – this team has just been – it's just a slow death. It's a slow death. It's been an awful season. Look, it's, we've talked, we've talked about it a lot.

It's almost, I certainly don't remember a team that was as competitive for as long. And again, still only two games out of the wild card if the season ended today, Jack. But I don't ever remember a team that was quote unquote competitive theoretically for a playoff spot that was as universally disliked by its fan base as this Phillies team. I really don't ever remember one. I mean, they, again, they have been in a playoff spot in one form or another, almost the whole season, Jack, really until the last week or so they've been a playoff team all season long.

And all season long, we've hated it. We've hated this team. We've hated everything about it. It's a really interesting kind of – we've talked about the dichotomy of it, but it's a really – it's a weird freaking season, man. It's really been a weird year and a half. Yeah, it really has. There'll be a 30 for 30 about the Gabe thing someday.

Why does Philly always have to try something new and always blow us up in our face? I know. Chip, Henke. I mean, we can't. It's just every time. Yeah. It's always to the full extreme.

It's like we're gonna go from nothing zero analytics to a hundred percent analytics like like going from going from the doug collins era to hinky was like zero to a hundred going from from and tomorrow yeah to chip zero to a hundred and then going from from peteon and Ryan Sandberg to Gabe, it's just whenever Philly tries something, it's so frustrating because when you look at sports around the country and you look at different cities, it's like, oh, look, smart team doing smart things.

And then we try to be smart in this city. And it doesn't work. It always backfires. Yeah. Except for, well, and then the- Well, the Eagles, yeah, flipped around after Chip. So, you know, I don't know. Does that mean once Gabe leaves, we'll win?

Maybe once Gabe leaves, we can hire someone who we all thought is stupid and end up winning a championship like Charlie Manuel. See, there you go. Look at that. See, we found a way to bring some positivity in here. Doug Peterson's just Charlie Manuel. I like it. It's the same exact thing. Yeah. See, there you go. Look at that. See, we found a way to bring some positivity in here. Doug. Doug Peterson's just Charlie Emanuel. I like it. It's the same exact thing.

Yeah. I mean, for all intents and purposes. Yes, it really was. Players love playing for him. Everyone thought he was dumb. Offensive genius. Yep. Look at that.

All right. So just find that guy. Get on it. Get on it, Matt. Yeah. Find that guy. Get on it. Get on it, Matt.

Yeah, find the dumb guy that no one's going to believe in and let him win a World Series. Oh, Jack, what a brutal time talking about this team. But again, this organization's problem is not the manager. It is so much more than just the manager that it is kyan bloom look at this the kyan bloom is the answer to all of our problems i cosign a hundred million percent agree but i will say i think that to say you can't say gabe is not the like the gabe is not the only problem. I don't think Gabe, at this point, the way it looks is that Gabe is not the biggest problem, but you can't just absolve him of all blame. Gabe deserves some blame too.

Have I absolved him of blame? No, but you know. I feel like you're trying to sun me. I'm not being sunned because I'm agreeing. I'm just saying that he is such he is it's not the main reason i i i get what you're saying he is the lightning rod everyone in this city blames gabe cabler there's a lot more to blame than gabe cabler the organizational dysfunction is more and not having a farm system and not finding underrated talent is worse than a manager who maybe affects one-tenth of a game.

Yes, it's a great point. The real big issue with this team is the front office and not Gabe Kapler when we're looking towards the future. Thank you. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you, Jack. How about that? There you go.

Is Jill still staring at you? Did she just stare at you the whole pod? Well, she saw that I was raising my voice and she didn't really understand why. I forced my wife to leave. I told Emily she had to leave, but you let Jill sit there and watch you. Yeah, well, here's the thing.

Here's the thing. It's that we're not Mr. Moneybags, James Seltzer. Oh, yes, I'm a second floor. We don't have a second floor. So it's just us. Mr. Moneybags. Yeah. I know. Mr. Moneybags, James Seltzer.

That's what they call me. All right. Well, let's let Jill get her jack back. Any final thoughts, my friend? Well, I mean, Jill will be there on Saturday. As will Emily. How about this? It's a whole family affair.

This is what the IHOP podcast is all about. It's a whole family affair this is what the podcast is all about it's all about family and a bad baseball team you're damn right brother you're damn right um how are we doing how are you doing final thoughts yeah we're doing final thoughts buddy um all right my one my first final thought is that the Mets are, I mean, I tweeted out over the weekend, but that's what a team looks like when the front office gives them something to believe in. And I can't get over the fact that they couldn't give up Medina

and another pitching prospect for Marcus Stroman. You did not have to give up Spencer Howard to go get Marcus Stroman. Clearly, considering what the Blue Jays got from Marcus Stroman. Like, you could have given this team a jolt. And I just can't believe where the position is. You're one of Real Muto Harper, and these guys are supposed to be the next core. And they just kind of punted.

Like, there's so much more. I just feel like the Phillies have continued to not read and not see the human element of baseball. It's been pretty frustrating, and I can't believe they did it. I can't believe they punted at the trade deadline. Like, they legitimately said to this group of guys, we're going to give you Jason Vargas and Drew Smiley, Bones for Arrieta, who's probably done for the year.

I mean, I think he just doesn't want to pitch. I think so, too. Also, it's absolutely hilarious how in the Diamondbacks series, he says, oh gabe should have left me out there and then he pitches bad against the giants and he's like i don't know if i'm gonna pitch again this season it's gonna be one or the other either you're freaking fine and you can get out there and pitch or you're hurt okay i respect what you're trying to do but just would you have a backbone like don't don't say oh well, Gabe should have left me out there one week ago

and then pitch badly and then blame the bone spurs. The bone spurs are really just an excuse. Yeah, I'm with you, man. I'm with you. He is the worst, man. I can't do that. I've had so much enough of that guy. I tried to be the, oh, he's tough.

He went out and he's grinding for us. I got nothing good to say about Jake Arrieta. Yeah, he's very frustrating. And my other final thought is that Mike Trout will be making his return to Philadelphia. July 17th through the 19th of 2020. And I'm just going to start this now. I don't want to hear, I don't want to have any standing ovation. I don't want anything.

Maybe a golf clap, but that's about it. I don't want any celebration of Mike Trout coming to Philadelphia because he is a traitor and he is not really from here. And if he gets a standing ovation, like what happened the last time he came here and the fawning over Mike Trout, it will be the single most embarrassing Philly sports moment since the last two Philly seasons. Wow.

Strong words from Jack Fritz. I don't want any Mike Trout love. I think that's fair. He spurned us. He decided to stay. I don't want him to get any Eagles balls. I don't want him to – I don't even want the camera to be on him at the Eagles games anymore. He chose to stay in Los Angeles, and I don't want to hear from him anymore.

Fair. Cosign. Yeah. Cosign. Cosign. I think that is a strong take that I support. My final thought, I'll just do it again. If you're 48 or whatever minutes into this podcast and still listening,

it means you really love the Phillies and you really dig High Hope. So coming out with us August 17th at the ballpark. The game might not be great But we're going to have a lot of fun And we're going to hang in general a lot before him We're going to drink beers We're going to get to all hang out Jack's going to bring a glove so you can see him

The famed arm in action We can have a catch together Oh buddy Look at this it's like Field of Dreams But in real life Sure we'll go with that I may only be warming up to try to to pull off with that uh guided to colorado rockies game yes to get signed by the oakland

athletics i like it yeah yeah this is good so it's for selfish reasons but as always all right cut wait hold on hold on yes, yes. I forgot my other thousand final thoughts. One, Bryson Stott had two homers yesterday. Very exciting. He went into a little bit of a swoon, but he figured it out. And Kendall Simmons, who I know you have. These are my favorite teams in Philly's land right now, James, in order. One, the Williamsport Crosscutters.

Two, the Redding Fightin' Phils. And three, the Philadelphia Phillies. Kendall Simmons' last 12 games, 385 average, 447 OBP, 1300 OPS. He's a superstar. Moniak Homer for the 10th time in AA. I think it's impressive that he's leading the Eastern League in triples. He is top five in doubles, and

now it feels like the power is starting to come around. It's all just beautiful in Mickey Moniak land. Alec Baum is now up to 12 home runs in AA alone, which he's only been out for like two months so i think that's i think that's super impressive um also carlos santana is on my screen right now he has 25 homers and has an obp over 400 and he's better than great which i didn't know was possible given the guy that i watched oh man i thought you're gonna give us a i was like

oh jack taking us out on a high note then you just shoved that in there the high note the high note is that there is a lot of young hitters in the system that are super interesting and i think that i think a lot of people are in two years are going to be like wow the phillies have a surplus of hitting talent and i am very excited for the. Getting through how awful this Philly season has been has been the play of Moniak, Boehm, Stott, Johan Rojas, Kendall Simmons, Logan O'Hopp. They're the only saving grace for how horrible

this Philly season has gone. There we go. Coming out on IOPs night, pay attention to minor leagues because that's all we got. Talk to you guys on Thursday. No pitching talent allowed. Only hitters.

All right. We'll talk to you later. He's Fritz. I'm Seltzer. All-star Closer. Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby.

I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is. Another fact, so jump aboard the BIB Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app

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