High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - THE ZACK WHEELER IS A PHILLIE EMERGENCY PODCAST

Episode Date: December 5, 2019

ZACK WHEELER IS A PHILLIE AND JAMES SELTZER AND JACK FRITZ ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT.  See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is another edition of the High Ops Podcast. A lot quicker than we expected, Jack. Zoe Seltzer, happy birthday. Zach Wheeler coming to the Phillies. Happy birthday, Zoe. For your birthday, we have an owner that seems like he's willing to go over the luxury tax. I don't think that you can get anyone a better birthday present than that. Well, hopefully that's true.

I'm not there yet. I hope you're right about that. Oh, I'm all in. Okay. Jack Middleton is so close to being back. He'm not there yet i hope you're right about that oh i'm all in okay jack middleton is so close to being back oh he is not back yet we can't we can't throw that around lightly jack i know but i feel it i feel jack middleton stepping up okay we'll see let's dive into it um i'm still sick in case anyone's wondering still feel like crap pretty

good yo for i brought it apparently philly's for the third time in their history signed a guy to a pitcher to 100 plus million non-conjuring how can i not bring it right and he joins the likes of of cliff lee ryan howard cole hamels um and now says zach wheeler How about it? Good thing I didn't say anything negative about Zach Wheeler less than 24 hours ago. Yeah, could have looked really bad there. Yeah, no, I did not do that at all.

I actually wouldn't even listen to the last episode, because this is a brand new episode, brand new times. High hopes are back, like back, back. I am feeling good it was a i can tell it was a bad start to the day you know well it was a weird start today so i woke up and the first thing i have is like four text messages of like oh my god like they're serious in pursuit of zach wheeler and in the back of my head, I just couldn't stop thinking like, I think they're going to get Zach Wheeler because Phillies moves kind of come

out of nowhere. And this is another one of those instances where, where the Phillies are lying in the weeds and all of a sudden pop out of nowhere. And it's like, boom, they got Zach Wheeler. Same exact thing happened last year.

And, and I was like, like man if they're this if they because remember all week it had been reported that the Zach Wheeler decision was going to come before the winter meetings and for them to jump in as seemingly late as they did I was like I think they're going to get Zach Wheeler so um woke up there and then we get to work you're already at work I come in and say hi. We talk about Zach. Come in and talk about Zach Wheeler for a second.

And then, Cole Hamels signs with the Braves. Yes. And it's like, Cole, first off, what are you doing? Why? I mean, really. Come on, Cole. There are 28 other teams. We aren't going to sign with the Phillies.

There are 28 other teams. Let's're not going to sign with the Phillies, there are 28 other teams. Let's take the Mets off the board. 27 other teams who would have been like, all right, fine. Really? I know. I don't think this is an overreaction, but I think they should take away his World Series MVP trophy. I can take that.

Is that an overreaction? I mean, it seems like a fair thing to say. I mean, he's freaking brave. thing to say. I mean, he's a freaking brave. It's embarrassing. It is embarrassing. I can't believe Cole Hamels is playing for the Braves next season. I know. I'm legit upset about it.

Watching Cole Hamels take the hill in a Braves uniform will actually make me feel things, and they're not good things. And he's going to have to come in with a stupid- ass tomahawk chop like i'm already dreading it walking in being like god this is so racist i can't believe they're doing it but yeah go braves right it's probably what he's been thinking oh so not happy about that but then uh out of nowhere you know where i'm in the middle of producing marks and producing Marks and Reese. And it's like the Phillies have signed Zach Wheeler. And it's like, okay, for how much? And then Salisbury says it's under $120 million. I'm like, well, cool. Thank God.

Nice to hear. I wish we were under $100 million, but sure. And then it's like five years, 118. And then the process of talking to myself and Zach Wheeler has already started. And we are all fully there. You're fully there? You're fully in? So I think this is the only way I can explain it to the people.

Okay? And I was trying to come up with the words for how I'm feeling about Zach Wheeler. And I think the best way for me to explain this is in three parts number number one is the Jack Fritz gut the Jack Fritz gut is nervous there's a there's a there's a nervousness in the Jack Fritz gut the Jack Fritz heart is saying he's going to be a Cy Young all in yeah Jack Fritz heart was all in before it ever happened I feel like the Jack Fritz heart was all in before it ever happened. I feel like the Jack Fritz heart is never out. Like the Jack Fritz heart is just always in. Yeah, no matter who they sign.

The heart says yes. And the head says he's going to be good. Like my head says he's going to be good. My gut says I'm nervous about it. My heart is all in. So it's weird they're they're paying 118 million dollars and we are banking on the phillies being able to unlock a pitcher's potential that's the key that's the key really that's the key you're right jack that's that's that's what we're banking on and i mean i think brian price is good

and i but but for me to be like oh we're gonna turn zach wheeler into a scion contender like i don't i don't believe that if he went to the astros he went to the reds rays uh indians i think they or yankees like they will get it out of them. Listen, I would love for the Phillies to prove me wrong, and they turn into a pitching factory, but I'm not at that point where I'm trusting them yet. I think Brian Price is a good step forward, and I think that Brian Price is going to do good things with Zach Wheeler,

Zach Wheeler a la getting him to use his splitter, which he used in the second half of 2018 that led to a 1.63 ERA and led to one member of this podcast saying, better than the Grom. Who was that? Think it was you. So I'm genuinely excited because I think they got a good pitcher today. I think they got a really good pitcher today. Do I think he's an ace? No. Do I think he's bad? No.

I just think he's good. And the fact that him and Nola are both 9-10 in respective F-War since the beginning of 2018, I think that says something. We all think very highly of Aaron Nola, and Zach Wheeler's been almost as good as Aaron Nola. So we're adding another Aaron Nola and Zach Wheeler's been almost as good as as Aaron Nola so we're adding another Aaron Nola caliber pitcher and um it it quells some of my fears heading into next season he doesn't erase all my fear but I think it's a really really good step forward and I think

Zach Wheeler's good pitcher and I'm excited and where are you at yeah I'm similar I think it's it's hard to judge the move in a vacuum without knowing what the rest of the moves are because if Zach Wheeler is far and away the only big move they make this offseason and then it's DD and then a bunch of filler I'm probably not gonna feel as great about the offseason as I could have. If it's Zach Wheeler plus, if this is not just the only big type of move they make this offseason, then I feel amazing about it. You know, it really is that type of, it's all dependent, but just basic on the Wheeler thing. I think you kind of nailed it. Look, I think the best way to say it is, is Zach Wheeler worth five years, 118 million? Probably not.

He could be. The upside is he could be even better than that, but on a basic level, probably not. But does he make the Phillies way better today and moving forward? Yes. Both things are true. So look, we talked a little bit about the idea beforehand of the thing I like about signing a Zach Wheeler is that you're not signing a Madison Baumgartner. I don't feel like this is a Jake Arrieta type of thing. You know what I mean? I feel like my only worry is injury with Wheeler. If he's healthy, he's going to be good. He's going to be talented.

The stuff is there. to be talented the stuff is there and the thing i like about it is that i think he's probably one of the few guys on the market this offseason that you could see a timeline where five for 118 ends up being a steal you know i mean like you can see a timeline where where it's he's one of the best pitchers in baseball if he stays healthy like legitimately so um i i like the gamble. I do. I don't think he's worth that money. $25 million a year for Zach Wheeler seems steep to me just on a basic level when I say, you know, what's he worth? I wouldn't have said $25 million a year. I'd probably be more in the $20 million a year range.

But, again, this team desperately needed pitching, and I think he's way better than what they had. So I'm kind of torn on that. Like, I don't know if the value is great but there is a ton of upside to it and it immediately makes them better that Matt Breen tweet that he put out before he signed I mean that's just like that alone makes me happy about it the fact that in the last two years there were Phillies pitchers total had 40 pitches of 97 miles per hour more in two years, 40 pitches. And Zach Wheeler has had 1,111 of those pitches in the last two years.

So, I mean, I love it. How long have we been talking about, like, just get guys who throw hard. Like, this isn't that hard. Get somebody who throws hard. So I love it from that perspective. So I'm kind of torn i think it's one of those moves where i think you really need to step back and evaluate it with the whole off-season plan and maneuvers in mind but on a basic level i like the idea that while it could go real bad at least there is upside in

this if you sign madison mom gartner four for 90 or whatever, it's going to end up being like best case scenario you get four for 90 worth. Zach Wheeler could be worth way more than five for 118. So I like that aspect of it, if that makes sense. No, I agree with you. And there's already an article on ESPN.com about how Zach Wheeler could be the next Garrett Cole level breakout. Oh, buddy. And I'm not going to go that far.

But there's legitimate upside here. I mean, that stuff is there. This stuff is like real. Like he was a top prospect. He's shown in the majors. Like he's got real stuff. Right. And I can't believe what I always go back to with Zach Wheeler is like he was

they traded Carlos Beltran for him like a decade ago like 2011 i can't believe how long it's been with with zach wheeler i guess like here's what i'm worried about zach and i think it's the one thing that i personally um just can't get past and something that always creeps into my head when we're talking about zach wheeler is that he should be better and he should he should be striking out more and i don't know why he's not like he was he was striking out less than a guy per nine innings last year like he was striking out nine guys per nine innings last year and when you have stuff that is as he leaded zach wheeler like you should be missing more bats why are you not why are you not missing more bats that's the thing that i keep coming back to he should be missing more bats if you have which he does he has elite stuff i just

don't know why he's not doing it um hopefully whether it's increasing the slider hopefully whether it's pitching his four seamer up in the zone. Hopefully, Brian Price gets him back to using his splitter like he did last season or did in 2018. Maybe that will help him miss bats. But when your stuff is as good as Zach Wheeler's is and it's not on the decline, I would like you to be striking out more than nine guys per nine. Like a lot of people are comparing this to Patrick Corbin when he signed with the Nationals last year.

Patrick Corbin was striking out a lot more guys than Zach Wheeler was. Big time. Double digits per nine. Right. And I don't know why Zach Wheeler wasn't striking out more guys per nine. It's the one sticking point where I'm like, this doesn't add up. And it's not like he's never really been a big strikeout guy. I mean, in his career, he's only averaging 8.7 strikeouts per nine.

So that's a low number especially with how baseball is trending um but but like we said i mean they are the mets they are perpetually the mets and only the mets could mess up a sale of their team like they did today um unbelievable it's so sad i want the wool buns to never leave i'm very disappointed jack i know but like they're gonna be here for five more years five more years which is good i'll take it it's it's just it's just weird um but there is that that that upside of of just like unbelievable stuff and that that's what annoys me with like i've seen a lot of people saying wow this is arietta 2.0 or whatever and i'm like arietta stuff was dead man like arietta couldn't miss

bats anymore like wheeler has legit legit stuff um and you know getting back to the cole hamels thing with with in relation to wheeler and i i like that the wheeler thing is a is a window move like zach wheeler is right you love your windows you know me You're a window guy. Zach Wheeler is right in line with where the Phillies are from a window perspective. I mean, Harper is turning 27. All these guys like Hoskins is turning 26. Kingry 26. Real Muto turning 29. Like he fits right in with where this team is from a window standpoint.

And Cole Hamels, there's no such thing as a bad one-year deal but cole hamels was not make or break the season cole hamels is the guy to put you over the top to to get you to the next level so like i'm not i'm not that devastated about cole hamels not being here um it sucks he's on the braves but but with wheeler it's five years it's it's legitimate like we can build with this guy rather than one and done, and then we got to go find another pitcher. Cole Hamels really, to me, just would have done nothing. Obviously, it would have helped a little bit this year.

But for me, as always, it's about the next couple years rather than just next year. So I like the window-ness of the Zach Wheeler move. Yeah, and look, the Hamels thing, while it was fun and it made a lot of sense from a business perspective, giving the people what they want type of thing, one-year 18 million, and you know, that's my mantra. There's no such thing as a bad one-year deal. I don't care what the one-year deal is.

If it's one year, I'm in. I'll take a shot on anybody for a year. But Cole Hamels is not worth $18 anybody for a year but cole hamels is not worth 18 million dollars for a season like he's just not i mean whatever that version of the similar-ish type of guy is on the market like cole hamels they're usually going for one year 10 million if they're signing a one-year deal so um i i'm with you i i it's the braves thing that really bugs me and the brave i like what the braves have done it you i i it's the braves thing that really bugs me and the brain i like what the braves have done it's not like for for the braves cole hamels are for starter and he

slots in like it's like that's nice that works and then you adding chris martin you had him will smith i like what they've been doing um so that bothers me but i i 100 agree the hamels thing would have been fun we we talked a lot on this show about how we wanted it to happen for multiple reasons, but one year, $18 million, I'm fine with them not going that way. It's interesting, though, because we had heard a lot about the innings eater idea. Zach Wheeler's not an innings eater. I mean, not that he'll pitch a lot of starts for you, but he's not someone who's going super deep into games,

usually seven, six-inning type of pitcher, which is valuable, and it's what you want, but he's not someone who's going super deep into games, usually seven, six inning type of pitcher, which is valuable and it's what you want, but he's not the team type of thing. And we also heard a lot about them wanting a lefty. Jack, do you still think that they are in the lefty market? And more so, you alluded to before, you said John Middleton's willing to go over the luxury tax. They're about what, 18 to 19 million under at the moment. If they want to truly compete for world series this year as they have said they do they'll have to go over the luxury tax i am still not convinced that they're definitely going to so where do you come down on the idea of another pitcher which i think most people agree they they need to sign another pitcher and the idea of what

type of value that pitcher will have so So I'll put it this way. I think if they're serious about World Series and really being in it, I think they sign Strasburg. Wow. Buddy. See, that's the thing. Real quick, that's what I was talking about before with the context. If they sign Zach Wheeler and Strasburg, it's like, oh, yeah, let's go.

It puts that move in a different type of perspective. If they're fine with just making the playoffs, I think they sign Madison Bumgarner. So you still think either way, the point is you think they're bringing in another big-name pitcher is your expectation here. Yeah, I think it's going to be. Wow, I like that. I think it's legitimately going to be Didi and Bumgarner.

I think if I was a betting man, I think it's going to be Didi and Bumgarner. If I was a betting man, I think it's going to be Didi and Bumgarner. Wow. I mean, look, Bumgarner is your three. I'm fine with that. I mean, if you can go Nola, Wheeler, Bumgarner. And I like the idea that Bumgarner is the one of those guys who, when it does come to the playoffs, whether or not you feel like he's aging or whatever, you feel 100% sure, good handing that guy the come to the playoffs whether or not you know you feel like he's aging or whatever like you feel a hundred percent sure hand you know good handing that guy the ball in the

playoffs it's interesting yeah i just i they're 16 million dollars under and i i just i think they're gonna go over it i i really do think they're gonna go over it i hope you're right it's my biggest fear my biggest fear is that it's ituster. You know, it's like, oh, we'll go for it. But like, we're not really going to go for it. Like, do you honestly, in your gut, do you really think that they're going to only spend $18 million for the rest of this offseason? I don't know.

I legit, like, here's the thing. Okay, and it comes back to the part we just did yesterday. If I had faith in this organization, then no. But I don't. I don't believe they're going to do what it takes to win. So they need to prove it to me. They need to show me, hey, yeah, we're going for it. We're in.

We understand the situation we're in and what we have to do to compete. So we're going to do that. Yeah, I just think that they're – I really believe that they are going to go over this year and then they will look to reset it after next year when Arrieta Robertson comes off the books and Oduble comes off the books. They can't say that they're going to be in it and John Milton has all this bravado about how he's here to win

and get his trophy back or whatever, and then have an opportunity right in front of you to make your ball club better with an opportunity to reset the tax in literally one year. All I have to do is suck it up for a year, hand over $2 million, and then it resets and everything goes back to being... You can reset your team in a way. I would be floored if they didn't go over the lottery tax. Wow, I love it. Dude, there's just music to my ears. It's my only fear. I would be floored if they didn't go over the luxury tax. Wow. I love it.

Dude, there's just music to my ears. It's my only fear. It's my only fear right now. I would honestly be shocked if they didn't go to the luxury tax. Good. So, like, go over it. I think Didi is coming. And if they, like, there's a, well, I guess, no, not anymore.

But there was a realistic chance that they could get Wheeler and Strasburg for the price of Garrett Cole and that would have been a win for me but I don't know there's a part of me that still thinks that Strasburg could be in play here I just think the big Boris thing I think Middleton is here

I think he wants to spend I think he wants to win I am listen I'm back in I'm back in on John Middleton. I can tell. Never doubted him. I want to be. Never doubted him. Yeah, sure.

Sure. Never once. I want to be. I'm ready to jump back in. He just has to prove it to me. Like, I'm sorry. What we've seen over the last year, he has to prove it to me. I will say I do like going back to Wheeler for a second.

You mentioned Brian Bryce. I like the idea of I just feel so much better about players coming here with this coaching staff. Yeah, I agree. Right? Like don't you just feel so much more confident that they're going to get the best out of these guys? Yeah, and I also love that the Chicago White Sox offered more. Oh, how great was that?

That never happens to us. Well, especially the White Sox. Cliff Lee, by the way, the only time it happened. The White Sox, we talked about on the show, the fact that Yosemite Grandel $73 million, the highest contract they've ever given out, and then they were willing to shell out more than $118 for Wheeler.

It's crazy. Who is going to take the White Sox money? Well, nobody, apparently, except for yasmani grandal yeah and he was like listen i'm not dealing with that crap from last season well the funniest part is that that somehow new jersey played a key role in the phillies getting zach wheeler i never jersey i never said that new jersey was the armpit of america no you've never said that so never another upside of wheeler the guy can hit i i knew you'd love that that honestly it was maybe my

fourth or fifth thought when they signed wheeler was like oh jack's gonna be excited about the fact that he can hit yeah wait till they get bum garner too all of a sudden it's a market inefficiency correct you're all about market inefficiencies. They can bring Wheeler or Bumgarner off the bench. I love that. I mean, you know I love that. That's actually something I do like. I'm really in on that.

Zach Wheeler career at Citizens Bank Park. 327 ERA. Get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. 327 ERA. I thought you were going to say 327 batting average. That's why I was so shocked. But 327 ERA is still really good.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. And I think that was early in his career. I think they're better the last couple years. I just remember, for some reasons, well, Zach Wheeler always owned the Phillies, it feels like. In the last couple years, it's been like... Yeah, they had the one start last year where they got on him, and then I feel like every other time he just dominated them.

Yeah, I mean, I've seen so many videos. I've watched a lot of like – I forget how I got to it, but somehow I got on a bunch of videos with Bryce Harper striking out, and it felt like they were all to Zach Wheeler. Zach Wheeler? Yeah. All right, let me ask you a good question with the Wheeler thing that I found interesting is there's been a lot of talk about the second half splits

and how it really is. It's stark. And it's only two years. And that's why I'm asking you about it. Is this a small sample size thing? Is this a real thing? Is this a – I heard Chris Carlin on with the afternoon show today talking about him being a warm weather guy. What is it?

Is this real or is this a figment figment of statistics are we gonna have another warm weather situation where i know that's why i heard that i'm like crap like evanola so just we're gonna suck in march and april all right fine um i don't know like i guess i think with wheeler i really do in studying and studying his pitch usage the last two years um in 2018 he went heavy splitter in the second half. And I don't know if you've heard this before, but when he uses splitter a lot, he had a really low ERA in the second half.

I don't know if I've ever said that before in my life. But in the second half of 2019, he started using his changeup more and more. So I think it's almost like he wheeler throws legitimately five or six pitches i think for him it takes a while for him to figure out what he what he feels comfortable throwing um like he'll always feel comfortable throwing his fastball slider good but i think finding that legitimate third pitch or fourth pitch that he can go to and get through the third part of a lineup i think it just takes a while for him to kind of find a release point,

and that may take, you know, it changes for pitchers. I mean, whether it takes you five starts to find a release point, whether it takes you a first half to find a release point, he seems like a guy that throws so many pitches that it takes him a little while to figure out what he feels comfortable throwing in any scenario. So I think that has a lot to do with it but it's interesting but it is nice that it is nice that his velocity is harder now than it's ever been um yeah and a lot of that has to do good well a lot of that has to do with

coming off tommy john i mean guys traditionally come back throwing harder totally but the fact that he's throwing his hardest fastball of his life heading heading into a contract and at the beginning of a contract i think is is is massive so i'm excited from that standpoint yeah 96.7 average fastball velocity i mean that's top tier well that's that's about as good as you're gonna find but do the phillies know that like no they wouldn't have signed him are you kidding me he goes against their whole organizational philosophy. Do you think they just sent Andy McPhail out for lunch for the day? Do you think they just sent him on 95?

Like, listen, we need you to go to state college and start recruiting or something, doing some stupid thing. Well, I do love that you bring up the Tommy John thing because that is true. We've seen that a lot with the velocity uptakes after Tommy John. But we've talked a lot about the Wheeler injury issues, and when you really look at it, it's really just Tommy John.

I mean, he's had some other things, but the main chunk of time he missed was because of Tommy John, and I think we all feel a lot more comfortable with a guy coming off that than other types of injuries, so maybe the injury thing is slightly overblown in that, yeah, he missed two years, but it was because of Tommy John.

Yeah, but then you have the shoulder fatigue thing from this past year, which is just weird. He was out for 11 days with shoulder fatigue. I don't love that. I mean, we see that all the time, dead arm. I mean, that's just a thing. I agree. I don't ever want to hear shoulder and pitcher issues

ever in any situation i don't want to hear like he's got a zit on his shoulder and it's bothering him because i'm out but generally with like shoulder fatigue dead arm is the only thing i'm kind of like i generally feel like that's just something that people go through yeah i mean i had dead arm my whole freshman year of college that's why why. That's the only reason I'm here right now doing this podcast. Could have been me out there today, buddy. It could have been, man. It could have been. Really close.

I know. You were so close to making $25 million a year. Right. It was dead arm and Keystone Lite. That was the downfall of Jack Fritz. Yep, yep, yep. I would say that the Keystone Lite could have attributed to me losing at least three miles an hour on my fastball and having no idea where my car was going.

No, I'm just saying. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good takeaway to have today. So from Jim Bowden, Jim Bowden today on The Athletic, his fastball velocity is in the 94th percentile of all MLB starters, and his hard hit percentage is in the 94th percentile of all MLB starters. His hard hit percentage is in the 92nd

percentile. His exit velocity is in the 90th percentile. Of 1,343 batted balls last season, only 77 were barreled off of him. Ooh, that's good. I like that. From Eno Saris of The Athletic. Love Eno.

Friend of the podcast, Eno Saris. Very early on in the podcast. Yeah, like way back. Only three qualified starting pitchers threw their fastball harder than Wheeler did last year on average. He's got a top third spin rate on that fastball. His breaking balls are among the hardest in the league, and his slider spins similarly to his fastball. So, again, this all just shows that Zach Wheeler has elite stuff. Like we've said a million times, he has elite stuff.

It's just about getting him to the next level. Whether it's, you know, I've seen a lot of suggestions from Fangraphs and whatnot about fastballs up in the zone, and unfortunately we saw how that went last year with Chris Young. Seen a lot of stuff about upping his slider usage. That's obviously massive. I mean, slider usage is pretty much what led to Patrick Horton's breakout. And there is obviously the biggest factor in all of this is he was a Met

and the Mets mess everything up. And he's coming to us. Yeah. And hopefully he can un-Met it up. Well, and you did mention the astros before the astros have consistently been in on zach wheeler we've heard about trade rumors for zach wheeler we heard about them being in on the sign him so you know you like hearing that you like that other smart teams are interested in this guy well i think just the fact that the reds were as in on him as they are sure i legitimately think i think the reds are the next the next smart team that we're gonna look at and be like

they're doing it certainly from a pitching perspective right if nothing else they did just sign mike moustakas too yeah but like i mean like what i mean sunny gray like that was uh i mean they did a great job yeah and they're bringing all the driveline guys over and yeah they signed kyle body i mean that's your guy and they took away Eric Yeagers from the Phillies which hurt yeah yeah but it's okay it's okay we got Brian Price here and Brian Price went former red Brian Price look at that flipping it back around Brian Price is going to get him to throw his splitter I really do believe in that I know I said it before but I really feel so – like I like the Wheeler signing more with Joe Girardi and Brian Price here. I just do.

Yeah, I agree with you. If it was last year, it would be like – Nope. Nope. I am very, very good on that. Yeah, I'm with you. So shout out to John, you know, future jack middleton um almost we're getting there if he signs strasburg i'm in it's jack let's go i mean listen i i will be shedding

tears if my rotation next year is strasburg strasburg nola wheeler come, get out of here. Well, that's a beautiful thing about Strasburg is, you know, with the whole Bumgarner thing. It's like, oh, playoff hero. It's like, yeah. So Strasburg and he's better. So, yeah. I mean, give me that guy. Give me the guy that still has, you know, stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is crazy because they're the same age, more or less. But yeah. But one is on what? Nineteen hundred innings. And I think I think I. But Juan has thrown, what, 1,900 innings? Yeah. I think Madison Von Garner has thrown 1,000 more innings than Zachary.

Has he really? Yeah. Wow. That's a lot more. I'm pretty sure that's his stat. Do you think the lefty thing matters? Personally, I'm not a big believer in that. I'm a big, like, I know in the bullpen it's a different story.

But for starting pitchers, like, I've never cared about different looks. If you're good, you're good. That's really all that matters to me. But we've heard that narrative come out from enough people close to the team, people connected, whether it's Stark, whether it's Salisbury, whoever, the idea of them wanting a lefty starter. Do you buy that? I think they want it.

I just don't care. Yeah, we're on the same page. It doesn't matter. Can you pitch well or not? That want it. I just don't care. Yeah, we're on the same page. It doesn't matter. Can you pitch well or not? That's it. Yeah, to me it's like, I mean, do I want a good lefty? Sure. Would I rather have a better righty than just an okay lefty to have my rotation?

Sure. And plus, if you're looking for different looks from your starters or whatever, you're looking for the change-up, whatever, just having Zach Wheeler throwing 98 to everyone else in the Phillies rotation, I think will... It's a different look. It's a very... It's like an alarmingly different look. Well, just imagine Wheeler going from starting and then going to the bullpen

and having Mike Morin come out. Oh, my God. Yeah. So Madison Baumgartner has thrown 1,846 innings in his career. Zach Wheeler has thrown 750, and they're the same age. Wow. All right, so that actually, like, that's the kind of stuff I want to hear. I mean, that makes me feel really good about the potential for Wheeler

to give you a lot yeah he is a fresh arm he's a fresh ish arm yeah comparatively i mean a very fresh arm i mean that's good i like that now unfortunately you know for as excited as i am about zach wheeler it is looking more and more likely that spencer how Howard may or may not be the Phillies' last second-round draft pick. They just don't make them anymore. It's fine. As long as we're not giving up first-round picks, we're all good here, right? I mean, we gave up a freaking draft pick to sign Jake Arias.

I know. I know. It hurts. It hurts. I know. It hurts. It does hurt. It really hurts.

And we gave a draft pick to sign Carlos Santana and flip him in a year. I know. I know. What hurts. I know. It hurts. It does hurt. It really hurts. And we gave a draft pick to sign Carlos Santana and flip him in a year. I know. I know. What are we doing? It's not great. Mismanagement, Jack. Seriously. Again, why I still am not there with trusting these guys.

What do you think Anne McPhail's reaction was? Who did we sign? Do you think he had a McPhail's reaction was? Who? Did we sign? I think his reaction was, Zach Wheeler, I never heard of that guy. Who's he? That would be my guess. Do you think he had a minor heart attack?

Do you think he had chest pains? Wow. I don't know. Do you think he saw his average fastball velocity and was like, Whoa! Move along. Yeah. He's like, Whoa! Move along. Yeah.

He's like, I don't like this. He gets a lot of balls fouled off, and those balls cost money. So I want somebody who's going to keep the ball and play more. Yeah. It'll be all right. It'll be all right. It'll be all right. What a day.

What a day. So I like how confident you feel about that. That's really my biggest reservation. And, again, I am more happy than not with the Wheeler contract. But my biggest reservation is that if they're not going to go over the luxury tax, it makes a lot less sense to me. You truly feel confident they're going to go over the luxury tax. Yeah, I do not think they're done.

Awesome. Again, if I had to bet, I think it's going to be the rest of the offseason is going to be Didi, Baumgartner, and Batantis. If I had to bet, I think that's going to be it. I mean, probably another bullpen arm too, whoever would be our guess. No, I think they would trade for another bullpen arm. Okay, either way. And I think they trust the guys that they have coming up through the system to be both 10 pieces, to be honest with you.

Oh, really? Oh, great. Sure. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. But, yeah, I would be more shocked than anything if they didn't go with the luxury tax.

That's exactly what I want to hear. That hurts for you to hear, you know? Like, you just don't believe it. I don't, but I want it to be true. I would be surprised. So great start. I mean, the fact that they're willing to shell this kind of money, the fact that Zach Wheeler does have considerable upside,

there's way more in the tank there. He's got a fresh arm. The fact that he throws as hard as he does just makes me very, very excited. I'm so excited about that. I am legit, legit. Hey, enthused to have someone who throws hard.

Hey, if he sucks, we can put them in the bullpen and he'll throw hard there. Boom. The Nick Pavetta plan. Yeah. Now, now I have been saying this around the office today and I feel like,

I feel like I can't not say it to the high hopes listeners listen zach wheeler is just nick pivetta with us oh sorry we're done that was it it's over now it's over but it's over now are you even sick i'm dying jack i'm dying i get i was planning on giving you 20 minutes i'm at. I feel like that's pretty good. That's pretty good. I mean, this is... I can't believe we just talked about Zach Wheeler yesterday. I can't believe we've gone this long to be blatant, Anderson.

We did not talk about Zach Wheeler yesterday. I said nothing. Well, not to the same level. Said nothing about Zach Wheeler yesterday. All right. You got anything in the note bag? Any final thoughts? No.

I don't think so. Well, that's so unexpected. I feel like there's usually a laundry list. I guess you got them all done yesterday. Yeah, I mean, we just recorded a podcast yesterday. Was there anything that I missed? Oh, I'm excited for Bryce Harper to be taking Cole Hamels deep more next season. Ooh, I like that.

And the Phillies were really good against Hamels. I will take one more opportunity now that it's coming to an end. Ooh, I like that. And the Phillies were really good against Hamels. I will take one more opportunity now that it's coming to an end. Say happy birthday, Zoe. I love you. You're fucking awesome. We actually have a little bit of... You are awesome. We do have more Zach Wheeler breaking news.

According to John Heyman, Zach Wheeler has a full no trade clause. Ooh. Okay. Oh, wait. No, no, clause. Ooh. Okay. Oh, wait, no. No, no, no. My bad. I messed that up.

Zach Wheeler has no no trade clause, but he gets his suite on the road and four premium seats. No way. Are you serious? Yeah, that's what Heyman's put out there. All right, good. Good for you, buddy. So we can trade him if he stinks.

I love it. That's the best part. Oh! Zach Wheeler. i'm in i it's just don't let it be the last thing there you go that's the key and uh we'll be back to talk about our winter meetings but if they get if they get bum gardener are you are you how do you feel about the offseason if it's if you're going into next season with uh nola wheeler bum gardener arietta efflin well i as you we've discussed many times i'm higher if you're going into next season with Nola, Wheeler, Baumgartner, Arrieta, Eflin?

Well, as we've discussed many times, I'm higher on the idea of Baumgartner than you, so I'm in. I would feel really good about that offseason. Obviously, I came in saying I wanted Garrett Cole, I wanted Steven Trasberg, so there would be a touch of disappointment on that level for me. But on a basic level, if you give me Zach Wheeler, Madison bumgarner to upgrade that rotation i feel pretty good about that okay i'm guessing you're not as feeling good i would feel fine about it i would obviously rather have strasburg um but i would feel i would feel decent about Baumgartner being my rotation.

Yeah, I would too, especially when he's your third guy. I feel good about that, actually. Okay. And again, I think Baumgartner, I think he's going to figure it out. If I had to bet on will Madison Baumgartner understand his velocity dip, understand how to work with that, and to turn into a pitcher like Cole Hamels, someone who can kind of age gracefully. I think Madison Bumgarner can do that.

I think he's a smart enough pitcher. I think he's a talented enough pitcher. I believe that that guy can figure it out if I'm banking on it. All right. I will talk myself into him when they sign him. Of course you will. Yep. The Jack Fritz positivity is a powerful thing, my friend. It sure is. Jack Milton, he's back.

Oh, he's definitely back. We'll be back soon. I'm sure the Phillies will sign someone else soon. We'll have to do this again. Hopefully I'll feel better. This made me feel better. I'll be honest. Last night, I was like dying and I was not enjoying myself. This was fun. I feel better tonight.

I'm all about more podcasts. There it is. Happy birthday, Zoe. I love you. You're awesome. You're a really good kid. Happy birthday, Zoe. There it is.

Zoe, Zach, how about that? Come on. We got you, Zach Wheeler. We did it. It's just for you. All right. Rate and review the podcast. It makes Jack so happy.

So please just do it for him. I would truly do it for Zoe on her birthday. I mean, come on. Yeah. Right. Zoe. One year old unhappy. Zoe's first words were get them to 600 reviews.

Yes. That's literally what she said. Oh, all right. Zach Wheeler. I love it. He's Fritz. I'm Salazar. We'll see you later.

All-Star Closer, Kenley Jansen. We have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's my passion.

It's a cause I started more than two years ago. It is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is. Another fact. So jump aboard the B.I.B. Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.