High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Theo Epstein Will be the Next Phillies President (Please)

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz are back with another new High Hopes pod. The guys discuss their new Theo or Bust official position, talk about how terrifying Steve Cohen is, and much more. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the High Hopes Podcast. High Hopes! It's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the Phillies on Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo! It is another edition of the High Hopes Podcast. Jack, I feel like we say this every week, but I am now at the point where I think as much as I wanted Matt Klintak gone,

and we, anyone who has ever listened to this podcast knows how badly we wanted matt clintack on the the sleep that we lost over matt clintack being gone i have officially reached the point where i want andy mcphail gone way more than i ever want i would take matt clintack back if it meant andy mcphail being gone and don't you know i don't want any McPhail I don't want Matt Glentak back but Jack get this guy away from our team now it is the most imperative thing facing this franchise it might be even more important than who they hired to replace him like just get him away. How are you? I absolutely hate him. I just hate him.

And like, dear John, for the love of God, I'm just begging you. Listen, I put up a poll yesterday on my Twitter account, Mr. Middleton. And if you want to go check it out you can I know you're quickly influenced by Twitter polls I know it's why you signed Bryce Harper and Manny Machado correct decision I know this is something that you are deeply passionate about and something that you

really value the people that you know root for your baseball team on a week in week out basis and I know that you listen to the podcast but if you go check out my Twitter account, and I'm sure you have a burner that is monitoring my Twitter account, because why wouldn't you? I mean, name someone that is more critical, more real,

more talkative about the Phillies than me, and you won't find them. John, go look at the Twitter poll that I put up two days ago. And I simply asked, who would you rather have the ear of John Middleton, me or Andy McPhail? And after 2,500 votes, not exactly a small sample size, 91% said me over Andy McPhail. And listen, I'm not going to parade around and say that's some kind of massive win. I just think that's something that you should consider when you're taking advice from a freaking dinosaur.

Like, how about you just let him go, you know, send him off to pasture, and let's all BS about, oh, you know, John Middleton really wants Andy McPhail to just step out of the way. You are the freaking owner if you want him to get out of the way then move him out of the way move him out of the way so uh listen james i hate it here i hate it here i hate it here I love this podcast. I love the Phillies. I love the High Hopes family that we have kind of created here in our listenership. And I can't believe people tune in every week to hear us just complain about this baseball team.

And I know this podcast was founded on hopes and the Phillies are a sleeping giant. and the Phillies are a sleeping giant and like finding the positive in a baseball team that has had a lot of negatives but James and I just can't we can't lie to you we've said that a thousand times we and we can't we can't try to spin this as something positive like we just can't and I know that people don't want to listen to negative podcasts, and we try to make it fun, and I think we do make it fun. But when we're talking about this freaking baseball team, we can't make this fun. I mean, we can't make this positive. We'll make it fun.

But I can't make this happy. I'm not happy. I'm sad every day I wake up. James, how are you? Yeah, that's what I said to you today. I was like, I know that's what I said to you today I was like I know that I will enjoy talking to you and I will have fun talking to you but I don't want to talk about this team like I'd rather talk to you about movies or whatever anything science I'd rather butcher

science with you then talk about this team and it's so depressing i mean like and then you know we've got john middleton here doing what he's doing and then you see steve cohen give his press conference in new york steve cohen who comes in and within two hours of being there has fired the entire front office just like all of you get out mania out. Like, just leave. Like, and Middleton couldn't even fire Matt Klintak, much less Andy McPhail, who it seems is way worse. I mean, recommending Jim Hendry, Jack. I mean, we were down the stroke before when those rumors came out and we did the, you know, Jim Hendry, Ned Coletti, Dave Dombrowski thing.

And, look, I don't think they're going to hire Jim Hendry, but just the idea that the dude who has the ear of the owner Coletti Dave Dombrowski thing. And look, I don't think they're going to hire Jim Hendry, but just the idea that the dude who has the ear of the owner is saying hire Jim Hendry. And like, that's what your, your point there is what, what is most important is that like, we will not lie to the high hopes listeners. And if we came on here and just made it seem like, Oh, it'll be fine. We've got Harper. Like that, we'll be lying. Like I would be lying to your, I was gonna say faces, but earbuds, ear holes, I guess.

Like, and Bryce Harper, man, like Bryce Harper. I feel devastated for this dude. Like this dude got grifted. This dude got conned. Bryce Harper got conned, John Middleton pulled the wool over his eyes and said, oh, I'm a big boy, I'm gonna spend money, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to win, BS, like BS, flat out BS, it has proven to be BS, they are not spending money, they are going to pinch pennies because of this whole thing that's going on while Steve Cohen's coming in there and saying, all right, let's throw some money around.

Let's sign the top guys. Let's interview the top guys. Oh, and again, how about the angels hiring a GM today? Uprooting in the middle of pandemic. Like how sad is it, Jack, that every single person on Philly's Twitter tweeted, well, I guess someone can uproot in the middle of a pandemic or some version of that one that happened. Like, that's where we're at. But Buster Olney wrote a piece today where other teams around the league

are calling the Phillies small-minded. That is a quote about the Phillies, Jack. It is a peril. They are in peril right now, Jack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, they are. They are. I mean, all right, how about this?

Are they 5-5? Would you, if you could pick to be any of the teams in the NL East, are they the fifth pick? Yeah, of course they're the fifth pick. What is that, man? And the worst yeah of course they're the fifth man and they're and they're and they're the worst part is that they're a laughingstock they're they've become a laughing stalker in their own city john middleton's become a soundboard um like even every national baseball writer out there is using uprooting during a pandemic as like a shot at the phillies like

everyone is just taking a shot at the Phillies and no one can figure out why they're just, why they're doing this. I mean, why are they just sitting it out? Why are they not? No one can figure it out. No one can figure it out. I mean, I think I have it figured out.

I mean. Yeah, I mean, look, Theo's the only, like, let's put it this way. Theo, again, if there is any shred of, you know, ability or competency in that front office and ownership group right now, then it's Theo. Like, that's the only logical thing that makes sense. But like, why should we think that the logical makes sense? Like, you know, it doesn't make sense.

They haven't made any sense this offseason. I mean, again, like, read that Buster only piece. Let me just read you this one little paragraph from it. Yeah, because not all of us have ESPN Insider like me. Here, this is kind of the hammer paragraph from Buster. Okay, he said, the Phillies need a plan for the future and for now because the Braves are getting better. The Mets may be dramatically better,

perhaps adding the likes of George Springer and Trevor Bauer. The Nationals will be better in 2021. And by the way, I won a World Series. He doesn't say that. And the Marlins have a lot of talent. Here's the hammer here. He goes, That the Phillies have dallied about their front office leadership is a source

of enormous confusion around the sport because whatever salary is required for the next head honcho in baseball, in baseball operations is an infinitesimal fraction of what's at stake financially for the franchise in picking the right players at the right prices in result in the resulting revenues it's quote-unquote small-minded one executive said i mean that's embarrassing man like they are saying john middleton is a disaster right now that is what that that paragraph says john middleton is a disaster the question, not to fully sidebar here, but what does infinitesimal mean? Infinitesimal means the smallest, tiniest, little amount.

I mean, listen, it's a nice choice of words by Buster. I think it's trying to, I mean, I guess he did go to Vanderbilt, right? I mean, it's a good word. Yeah, no, it's a good word. It's a good word. We could say fraction of or small. He's trying to hammer home.

It's not just a fraction. It is the smallest, littlest fraction. I get it. Sorry for Buster trying to, I don't know, infuse a little you know intelligence or culture into things or trying look i'm a big fan of when i and i appreciate you asking jack i'm a big fan if i don't know a word i like to look it up and see what that word is and build my mind jack well that's why i asked you you know i mean because because i my my biggest fear with

you james is that you've been doing a lot of goo goo gaga talk with zoe and i don't want you to lose that sharp brain that you have you oh buddy yeah it's been a lot of uh it's heartfelt blue that is that is a heartfelt thoughtful thing to do pal hey uh if there's one thing i i look out for the people that i care about and that's about it um it's true you do do that now back to something that i care about but i hate the philadelphia phillies um so yeah the whole idea of but honestly honestly if their plan is theo if if you just warp your mind, right, and if you just warp your mind to they're putting all of their eggs in the Theo basket,

this all makes sense, you know? The sitting out of trying to really find a GM, because I do believe that they went after the big fish you know i i do believe that they put in a call for neander and unfortunately it looks like the neander uh pipe dream is dead um i do believe that they they put in put in some effort to go after the big fish and once they said no you know i don't think they want to just – because if you're the Phillies, do you really want to bring in a GM, hire a brand-new GM, let him hire his guys, and then a year from now go after Theo and let him fire the GM?

What GM is going to take that job? You know what I mean? What GM is going to take the job in a year you already know the franchise is going to go after Theo? I don't know who would take that job, and I don't really know why you would going to go after theo like i don't know why he i don't know why i don't know who would take that job and i don't really know why you would try to sell him on that job so if you're the phillies you already know you're behind a lot of teams this year you're behind the nationals well you're probably not behind the nation you might be behind the nationals

yeah i think you are i mean whatever you're definitely behind the brain soto alone puts you behind the nationals and look mike rizzo Mike Rizzo's way better than what we got. Right. So what I'm saying is that if you look at it through that lens and you're behind those guys, and sure, it's wasting a year of Bryce Harper. But if you're going to go after a big fish like Theo Epstein and you're going to give him maybe a little bit of ownership stock, what's really the point in hiring a GM? Honestly, is what I'm saying

makes sense at all? Yes. Look, I get it. I, there is no sense in hiring a GM if you are going to go after Theo next year, but, but there are a couple of key caveats that one is that it can't be, you're going to go after Theo next year. You have to have a very, very, very good inclination that you are going to get Theo next year. You have to have – I know maybe there are rules about talking to other executives of other teams, but you need to know Theo's coming here because you can't throw a year away. You can't throw a year away.

The point is if Theo's not going to come here or if there's a chance Theo's not going to come here, then you need to find the best president you can now. Again, this all goes back to the fact that Andy McPhail's still there. It's just insanity. It is pure insanity. And the fact that he has the ear of him is of john middleton is is even more insanity so look i i'm look we said this from the jump we said you know after neander obviously if that wasn't gonna happen that that we would be a hundred percent okay with them getting theo next year

and waiting here to get somebody but they have to get him so i think you're taking a big risk in that sense like that that is nerve wracking. You don't know what can happen in a year. You don't know what team that could be an intriguing option, like decides to make a move for Theo because he's Theo. So that part of it scares me. And then the second part of it is the idea that, okay, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, which let's acknowledge is a absurd thing to do with what they've shown us over the last you know few years and obviously this offseason stuff but like let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say the plan is theo and they have a good idea they're

going to get him handled it better like the messaging has to be better i mean they are just fumbling every opportunity they have to convey their message to the fans of what they're doing, of how they're handling this offseason, how they're handling the future. I mean, they're just, it's a bleep show, Jack. I mean, again, to the uproot, the pandemic thing has become a joke across baseball. And that's our team and that's our president conveying how they're handling this situation. So, like, if they're going for Theo, don't, like, sell this to the fan base this way. Don't tell them, like, you're making yourselves look incompetent when if you're actually going for Theo next year,

like, have a better plan of action about how you're going to explain that to your fans without saying, oh, we're getting Theo next year. Like, the whole thing just, and thus, the way they've handled it just makes it so hard for me to believe that they're this strategic, smart group that's going to pluck Theo next year when he's free. Like, why should I believe that? Why? John Middleton's cheap right now. Like, why should I believe that he's going to pay what it takes to get Theo,

to lure Theo here, all that stuff. Like, I don't know. I agree with you that logically, if we're thinking about this logically about the Philadelphia Phillies, the organization that they are and that they should be in the resources that they have in terms of the television deal, they have the money at their disposal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. Then yeah, like the logical thought is the only reason they're not doing something this year is because Theo is going gonna be available next year and that's a big fish and a new challenge for him

and boom but i just don't know that i can trust that this organization is a logical smart forward thinking organization that way yeah yeah honestly i've i've just resigned to the fact that i'm not going to accept anything else other than theo you know i i have busts that that's i get you know what let's do it jack now i mean i haven't i i mean assuming like we think neander the angels apparently asked the rays for him and the rays said no and that they're not gonna let him go and all that so like assuming neander's out, I think the official position of IOP's podcast has to be Theo or Bust. Yeah, and good thing I've never had any bad things to say about Theo or called him overrated.

Yeah, Theo, for whenever you get here or whatever, there is one member of this podcast who has not only had your back but lauded you and argued for you and thinks that your achievement winning with both the red sox and the cubs is the single greatest sports achievement of my lifetime theo sir just wanted to throw that out there and let me just let me just say this if and when it does become a possibility you won't you won't find a bigger theo guy than me. But here's the thing.

And here's the thing. And I get why you should not trust the Phillies. And listen, I totally understand why. But here's where I keep coming back to. The Sixers just got freaking Daryl Morey and Doc Rivers, and they are just as incompetent as the Phillies. They just fell ass. It's a great counter, Jack's like they just felt ass they fell ass backwards into a top five coach

and a top five exec right like I mean Girardi I guess you could say is top it was top 10 top five where we want to put on managers don't matter anyway I mean Theo's is still really high up there when it comes to that kind of stuff so yeah I mean they could fall ass backwards into this and everything will be fine I mean it happens all the time you know smart teams or dumb things are going smart all of a sudden but like Theo's and and and another thing I come back to the Mets are going to fill their position this year they're not going after Theo next offseason I would not think so I mean they seem pretty all in on starting to build this thing get the get the right guy in there Angels are filling their uh vacancy this offseason so there's a big

market team obviously chicago no because he's leaving chicago um the yankees are obviously the yankees uh the red sox are there with hayim um and billy b now yeah right right so there's not really there's not really another home that is, quote, supposedly a big market team that Theo could come into, and I'm sure they would give up some ownership stock if need to. And I think Theo is really what Middleton needs. I mean, Middleton needs a guy that can kind of tell him what to do, that's been a boss, that has a track record of winning.

Who's not Andy McPhail? Who's not Andy McPhail and Who's not Andy McPhail. And it's still like, is Theo even 50 yet? I mean, think about it. No, Theo's definitely not 50.

I don't, I'm without looking. I, I, I would guess he's in the 48 range or something like that. But I, I, I,

he's somewhere in that range. I, but, um, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's such a, I mean, look at it. Theo's won two world series in the last range. But, yeah, I mean, it's such a perfect –

I mean, look at it. Theo's won two World Series in the last – you know, three, I guess, because the second Red Sox one was his, too. He's won three World Series since Andy McPhail has had a winning season. Right? Yeah. Just please don't – Theo has won three World Series since a team that Andy McPhail was in charge of

has had a winning season. How about that? Just if you could just not – if you could please stop discrediting the 91 Twins, that would be great. And also, if you ask Cubs fans, and I think they would all agree with me, who meant more, the Cubs, Theo Epstein, or Andy McPhail, they'd all answer Andy McPhail. So if you could not slander –

Or Jim Hendry, right? Or Jim Hendry, right. How could I forget the other genius? andy mcphail so if you could if you could not slander right i mean or jim hendry right jim how could i forget our the other the other genius so old man jim i'm gonna go with old man by the way for anyone who doesn't know much about jim hendry take just take a quick perusal of his wikipedia page um everything about it down to the picture of jim hendry screams loser like it is just it should just say loser jim hendry at the top of the page is that fair yeah it looks like it doesn't he just looks at a guy that like just eats a lot of red meat and doesn't move all day like just he let's let's say he does not look what's the word i'm looking for impressive yeah that's the word i'm looking

yeah i don't i don't know i don't envision jim hendry walking into a room with a with uh with john middleton knocking his socks off with how sharp he is honestly james what the hell do you think jim hendry did for brian cashman do you think he like got him coffee like he i maybe i don't even know if cashman would trust him to get the coffee right he's a special assistant to to brian cashman do you think brian cashman for like nine years or whatever i mean like he's been doing nothing he's as useless around baseball it's like you may as well like go to the your analytics department and be like all right who's the top guy here all right you're the gm like that would be a better hire than jim hendry what are we doing again i'm just throwing my hat in the ring i'm

throwing my hat in the ring if we need it i'm there i'm ready to serve i'm willing to uproot from whatever i'm doing to be there um whatever it takes whatever it takes to to fix this baseball team i will do and john if you hire and if you hire jim hendry like there's no coming back for me you know honestly like the only saving grace if they hire jim hendry is that theo can fire him again in in one year like he did in 2011 it would almost be poetic it would be hilarious it would be hilarious i mean be hilarious if you hire jim hendry we're a raised podcast yeah like literally like we're just gonna talk about the rate we're you know we're just gonna be a baseball pod no no you know what you know we're gonna be we're gonna be a philly's minor league podcast oh a brian barber yeah fan stan pod yeah and the Brian Barber. Yeah. Fan Stan pod. Yeah. And the driveline guys.

Yeah. Oh, can we just be the Jason O chart? Stan Travis. Yeah. I am. I look, let's cling to the smart people in this organization.

Clearly at the top, it's not that. So let's cling to the smart people who are there. We need them desperately. We love you. We love you guys. We love you. Yeah are you are our life raft in this ocean of sadness at the moment is that fair official message to uh ochart hergert um uh brian barber his staff we value you we love you and we love you guys yes

and and please don't please don't leave like please don't leave i know i know things are looking dire but uh like honestly maybe theo bianna you guys maybe yeah yeah listen listen feels awesome if you if you listen to one podcast listen to this one theo's coming in a year just hold this just hang with us hang with us for one year Theo's coming and I like dude what sucks is that like the the player development guys are actually making a difference and I know like people love to say oh the Phillies haven't developed well and whatnot blah blah blah for a long time yes that's right but these guys have been here for two years and you're seeing legitimate legitimate velocity gains from guys who did not have velocity.

JoJo freaking Romero is hitting 97 this year. That's because of the player development guys. Can we just keep those guys happy and keep them here? If you're going to freaking tank everything else in the organization when it comes to buying players, at least value the smart guys. At least value the smart guys in this organization that are getting the most out of the draft picks that you're getting them. Just please value them.

Please value them or else you're going to lose them. The Mets are here, and if you listen to Steve Cohen, he's not going to – That was the only thing I get into next. I know, and this was probably a transition, and this will be a transition into us talking about Cohen, who is terrifying. But the most terrifying thing the most terrifying thing from the cohen press conference was that he's not going to go out and buy championships and ultimately i would love if steve cohen just wouldn't try to buy every free agent because you're not going to win like that he's not going

to do it the thing that was so it was so terrifying he's going to, I think he's going to try to build this from the ground up and be a sustainable winner. Whereas Middleton kind of just went out and tried to buy a championship and trade for a championship in Real Medo and Harper and then not sign Real Medo and here we are, whatever. But, like, you win by developing. You win by having a well-oiled machine of an organization. And what hurts. And what,

what, what hurts and then supplementing and then bringing those extra guys as supplement, you know, and the Phillies have some of the right guys down there. And I just, I just don't want them to lose them to a team like the Mets who is willing to seem well,

or it seems like as they're willing to, to pay for top of the line development guys.'s just it's just what i don't want to happen so um let's get into steve cohen because i'm excited man i'm uh well i think we texted each other like six different quotes uh from the steve cohen press conference just being like oh my god this guy this guy's a problem it's gonna suck i mean he said everything you want to hear i look i steve cohen's a smart guy uh there's a reason he's the richest owner in all baseball now already you know and again what we said before i mean he came on came in and just axed everyone he's like all right oh that's funny i didn't even think about that i said ax which is pretty funny uh because he's like Bobby Axelrod. Bobby Axelrod.

I only watched a couple seasons of that. It was okay. I liked it, but I didn't dive. No, Billions is just always an easy watch that was kind of fun, but definitely dumb. But now that the guy's owning the Mets, it terrifies me even more. Yeah, because he's a shark, man.

He's a shark, this guy. There's he's he's a shark man like he's a shark this guy like there's a reason he's worth 14 billion dollars and he's smart and he knows how to run a business and uh you know i mean like we talked about like you the thing you talked about last time with middleton and and fluidity and all that stuff like this guy's got a lot of money at his disposal like it ain't a problem you know it's not a worry he basically called the mets a hobby man they are they are that's how much they are that's how much money this dude has they are hobby yeah they're hobbied him he's with 14 billion dollars like this is this is a a fun game to play you know and and he's also like again everything he said about how he's gonna go about his business just sounded smart and i think that if nothing else and and this is where you credit Josh Harris, right?

You made the Sixers comparison before. And yes, they fell ass backwards into a perfect offseason. But the reason it was a perfect offseason is because Josh Harris is a venture capitalist, a guy who works with buying and selling businesses and all that. And he just wants to have smart people who he can pay a lot of money to do the things he needs them to do. Like, and that's what an owner should be. They should be there to say, okay, who's the best at this? Oh, you? Daryl Moore, you're free? Oh yeah. You want 10 million a year? No problem. Easy. Here you go. 10 million a year. Come on in. Run my team. I don't

have to deal with all these angry Philly fans anywhere. I'll see you guys later. I'm going to go do my other million businesses that I have to worry about. Oh, Doc Rivers. Perfect, you know, venerable, respected coach who I can bring in here. Oh, you're free? Oh, yeah. 10 million a year? Boom.

Let's roll, buddy. Like, that's the owner you want. You want the owner who is willing to say, all right, I'm going to find and hire the smartest people, and then I'm going to find and hire the smartest people. And then I'm going to step out of the way and let them do their thing. That is not the situation we have on either end right now. And I think that there's a really good chance that's what Steve Cohen's going to be. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling,

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Please play responsibly yeah and um again we talked about this at the beginning of the podcast but we never lie to the high hopes listeners and i tried james i i tried for a couple weeks there to say you know what i'm not worried about steve cohen you know fans buying teams never ends well you know especially when the they're a gritty philly guy that wrestled at haverford school and and grew a cigar company and he's gonna get his trophy back and die trying and all that fun stuff like i i think i have a little bit of experience with a fan of the team who buys the team and then promises that he's going to turn around and the whole city buys into it because they feel like he's one of them you know so i i tried i tried and then i heard him talk and i was immediately terrified i haven't stopped

thinking about steve cohen i i can't stop thinking about steve there's two reasons why i can't stop thinking about steve co One, I'm terrified. And two, I'm supremely jealous. Like, I have never been. I've texted every Mets buddy I have to say, I wish I had your owner. Oh, my God. So, you want to trade owners? I've done it every single Mets fan.

I mean, he looks terrifying. Like, he kind of has, like, a snark he just doesn't he's just he's just doesn't he look like a star wars character you know like i don't know he's he's not a very he's just creepy looking to me but whatever he's a good he does have a weird look but but when you hear him speak he comes off impressive he comes off smart he doesn't say the wrong things again like well except he did he did he did promise a World Series within three to five years. Look, which is stupid. That was dumb of him, and he probably got caught up in the moment.

But let's put it this way. I wouldn't bet against it. Well, at least he's sending the right message. They've got a pretty good infrastructure right now, and at least it wasn't some BS quote where I don't think he's going to do everything he can to bring a World Series there, whereas our owner said, oh, I'm going gonna bring the bleeping trophy back or die trying like no you're not like no you're not you're clearly not like that's that's a a bleeping lie so like steve cohen like he's

like three or five years like that that feels authentic that feels real to me like this guy's like we're winning in three to five years like i'm giving you a window Like I'm putting my ass on the line right now and saying I'm winning world series in three to five years. Like I just, he came off listening to him, watching him talk. He was just so much more impressive than our owner. Like, especially when you contrast it with that horrific horror show of a press conference that our owner gave at the end of the season. Like it just, it's like night and day. It's night and day. And, and like, that's what's so upsetting and frustrating is, is I don't know how Middleton competes with this guy.

Like, I really don't like, he said he wants to be the Steinbrenner of the South. Whoops. The Steinbrenner of New York is back there, except he's smarter and shrewder. Like, I'm just, man, I, I i i'm the steve cohen thing it was like just the the extra cherry on top of the fu sunday that has been this philly's off season so far you know with andy mcphail and middleton everyone making the the the ice cream part underneath and you got all the jt romito and all this other crap on top and then all of a sudden it's just steve cohen just this huge cherry dropped on top it's a bummer man i i think the mets are a problem yeah honestly like the the the one the one thing that is is i think the the scariest is him talking

about how this is like a hobby for him like like owning the mets is he's not looking to make money off the mets he's already made money he literally said that as a quote he's not looking to make money off the Mets. He's already made money. He literally said that as a quote. He's like, this is not something I'm trying to make money off of. And that contrasts with what you were talking about last time where it's like the Phillies are Middleton's source of income. Like, that's a crazy dichotomy between those two guys. Yeah, I mean, he still has billions. Of course.

Of course. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? We've been through the billions thing a thousand times. Whatever. It's clearly not going to happen this offseason. The only way the Phillies are going to get back to where they need to get back to is really hiring Theo and getting us a well-run organization.

I mean, again, it's a shame that they're blaming no fans and not being able to get income that way is a reason why they can't spend money on free agents this offseason but it's like almost like i have to accept that's you know where we're at but um like they they just have to become they have to become shrewd they have to develop well they have to draft they have to they have to almost get to operate like a small market team like that's ultimately where they have to get to you know um they have to they have to do what smart small market teams do at this point which is draft develop and invest in that kind of stuff and you know i mean because it seems like the mets are gonna go after the the the big time for agents they have to do what

you did jack you just said casually they have to do what a small market team does like casually like it wasn't even a thing i know yeah excited to be here just excited to talk about his baseball team they're they're doing everything right per usual god they need theo like i can't believe it's it's so me that it's going to come down to Theo. Like, everything that I have. It's so funny. It's the greatest. Like, I would love for, because anyone could go back and listen to our spots where you and I have argued over Theo. Like, the things you have said about Theo.

But when he comes here and he is the, again, you know if when the miracle happens that he actually does come here uh and it happens like some of the things you said are downright treasonous of what you said about our president uh theo i've seen and listen they might be true they might be true he might he might have lost a step might have lost a step uh doesn have lost a step. Doesn't draft it well, exactly. But with Brian Barber in place, you know, maybe it's not a huge problem. Please. All right. Official position of the Iowa's podcast, Theo.

Need you. Need you. Need you. Please. Theo or bust. Like, that's it. Oh, what a terrifying proposition. I don't know how we're here Jack You know it's fine

Jack how about this for a silver lining How about this I got it I got it Because anyone who listens to this podcast knows That they have heard you say this As many times as I've heard you say this There is nothing i'm looking forward

to more than the gm search podcast well guess what jack you're getting a year of them buddy can't wait love what ned rice and co are building over there oh man did you ever think when you would say that that that that this would be the scenario that we were in when we were talking about the GM search? Absolutely did not. I absolutely did not think that this was going to be the freaking predicament that we're in. Oh, buddy. All right. How about let's talk about something else fun.

Alec Boehm, not Rookie of the Year. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I used to, awards or something that when I was a kid I really cared about, now I legit could not care less.

Like, I kind of care the tiniest bit about MVP and Cy Young, but not really that much. And this year I don't care about any of them. They're all shams. It means nothing to me. So particularly fine with, you know i didn't really care devin williams is awesome too oh dude i as a devin williams uh fantasy i like seeing a middle reliever when like that's fun that shows progress yeah yeah well it shows that

people value the smart things like a guy that can come in and just shut down a game you know like our one sir anthony was supposed to be 15 seasons ago um that's what devin williams was for this burst and pretty much like except better except better if he didn't if he didn't yeah of course devin williams is like andrew miller circa you know cleveland 2016 or whatever um but yeah no if they uh if he wasn't who he was this year, I mean, they don't make the playoffs. I mean, he was a true game changer.

So it would be nice to poach someone from that front office, but, you know, nevertheless, Ned Rice and co. are here. Jim Hendry is just waiting in the wings, Jack. Oh, Jim Hendry. Nothing says a progressive organization like hiring Jim. The fact that it's even a thought is embarrassing. Yeah, that's the problem. The fact that that was a report.

The fact that was a real. And look, Howard has sources. That is real to a certain level. Whether John Middleton ever truly considers it or not, we don't know. But I guarantee you Andy McPhail floated Jim Hendry to John Middleton. Howard is not wrong about that. No, I mean, Howard's a guy that he'll put something out there if he knows. He's not someone that's going to just throw it out there and see how people react.

Like, he actually checks up on stuff, and he really doesn't do it much anymore. You know, he doesn't really put out reports anymore about stuff. So, I mean, this one, it's definitely real. And, like, the fact that it's even, like, that's what's so disappointing. They're, again, probably not going to hire Jim Hendry. But the fact that it's even a thought, it's like, we try not to curse on this podcast, but, like, what the hell are we doing here like seriously jim hendry like who the who the hell is thinking of jim hendry into as 20 in 2020

baseball where the freaking dodgers and the rays were just in the world series who was knocking down the door for jim hendry the guy guy who was grabbing Brian Cashman's coffee for the last eight years? Like, get out of here with this crap, man. Like, just get out of here. Just stop. Like, just stop. Just stop. You're absolutely killing me.

Like, it's not that hard to run a freaking baseball team. Like, it is just not. Who in their right mind thinks in 2020, I'm going to go after Jim Hendry? Jim Hendry, who sucks. Jim Hendry sucks. I mean, literally, he did nothing post-2002 or whatever. The 08 Cubs were decent. They were the worst team in baseball when Theo Epstein took over for them.

We're going to bring that guy in without a league's trending? Baseball was still dumb in 2011. The sport was stupid. And we're going to bring that guy? Why is that even crossing Andy McPhail's mind? He went and did the highest payroll, too. Why is he crossing Andy? Two or three years in second the other year.

God, would you just get Andy McPhail away? Send him to freaking Siberia. I don't care. Get him a freaking plane ticket, a one-way plane ticket. He's going to ruin everything. He's going to ruin everything. He's going to ruin everything. That's what he does. That's what he does.

He ruins everything with his friends. I don't want your friends. I don't want your friends, Andy. Your friends suck just like you. They all suck. They all suck. Jim Hendry in 2020? Who is thinking of Jim Hendry?

Brian Cashman doesn't even know he works for him. Like, for some reason, he's been allowed inside Yankee Stadium for eight years. Why? Why? Why Jim Hendry? Why? Why are you recommending Jim Hendry? You're retiring in a year.

Just retire now. Seriously. Seriously. You're freaking retiring in a year. Get away. Get away. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Stop ruining this baseball team, man. Stop. I beg of you. Just get a one-way ticket to Siberia or somewhere away from this baseball team. I just, oh, my God. Uproot and move. Jim Hendry, that's your plan?

Oh, sorry. No, I thought it was perfect perfect and i agree with everybody who said oh buddy maybe next week we'll just try and like do a things to be happy about pod and just talk about like brian barber and next week next week i think we should do the ideal off-season podcast okay but like are we are we operating under realistic yeah yeah yeah i think it's gonna be the realistic the 2020 phillies we're looking for some shrewd ned rice moves got it sweet yeah the the under the radar ned rice oh it's gonna be sweet it's gonna be All right, what do you got to take back, pal? Hmm.

Oh, come on, man. We didn't break out the Lindor thing? That's definitely going to happen? Oh, yeah, because it's so not going to happen. Again, we don't lie to the IELTS listeners. Why would we entertain such an absurd thing? John Marozzi put the Phillies in that tree. I was like, what are you smoking, pal?

What are you smoking? Well, maybe because he saw that they traded for JT Rabuto with a year left in control and then didn't resign him. So he was like, hey. Maybe they'll do that again. Give the fan to these idiots. In all seriousness, Abel's untouchable. Boehm's untouchable.

Howard's untouchable. I would trade Abel In a second for Lindor Not for a year of Lindor But if I need to We're going to sign him long term Yeah Here's

You know what I would trade for Yeah of course If you're signing for Yeah I'm talking about If you're just under the assumption Of one year It's all untouchable We're not trading for a year

Oh come on man One year of Lindor would be fine What are you trading for a year of Lindor for Like what's the point of a year If you're not going to re-sign him No no no I'm not saying I'm not saying they're definitely not going to re-sign him? No, no, no. I'm not saying they're definitely not going to re-sign him. I'm just saying that.

Yeah. I trust John Middleton to pony up another $300 million contract. Come on. You heard him. You heard him. Stupid money. Stupid money. He's going to spend stupid money.

I don't know. I'm so depressed that I would take a year of Lindor, even if he's going to walk. Lindor is one of my two favorite non-Philly players in all of baseball. So, yeah, I would too. I love that dude. I mean, his nickname is Happy. His teammates call him Happy because he's just always happy and smiling.

He's kind of like the James Seltzer of shortstops. He is. I am as good a player as Francisco Lindor. Agree. Yes. Sure. So I do want to talk about the – I mean, this is what I'm sure people came for, especially at this point in the podcast.

But the three three so nothing says a well-functioning organization like trying to sign your pitching coaches before your next gm or president but i know that's where this team is at and um the first two names like dave lundquist and rafael chavez they're both internal guys uh chavez seems decently smart but um you know i don't i think i think the guys who have really gotten the most out of the guys that have come up have been more the driveline guys, Travis Hargert and Pat Robles, and those guys more than it's been the pitching coaches down there. up who salisbury brought up was caleb kotham who is great like legitimately good was with with with cincinnati um last year with kyle body from driveline another driveline guy but uh bauer credits a lot of his success this year to the work that kotham put in a former major league pitcher so at least he knows at least that stuff i mean to get to the major leagues is obviously an

accomplishment in and of itself um but he seems like the perfect guy understands the advanced stuff and that's what i want like you know there's a lot of people that want to get back to the old school stuff especially after capler and chris young and all that i actually want to go more in on the analytics and uh spin efficiencies and all fun stuff like that and kotham would be a really really good hire and i think the guys that they kotham would be a really really good hire and i think the guys that they have down there i think would help uh help get them here um but i think that would be you know a home run hire i know it's pitching coach but a home run hire and uh i hope they do it i really do you know that'll be one thing for me to get excited about

is uh is a nice caleb kotham hire yeah well, Trevor Bauer called him out with his Cy Youngling, specifically said, you know, thank you to that guy. Nice. Yeah, and assistant pitching goes, you don't see that very often. So that was notable. He was not the pitching. People around baseball dig this guy, so it's interesting. Right.

I mean, they have a really good pitching development staff out there clearly clearly i mean what they did with sonny gray alone is miraculous i mean derrick johnson's a stud but then he factored in body and he factored in um they got like kotham and it's just i mean that's that's what you want when you're like listen if you're gonna not invest money in the team this year, at least invest in some development guys at Gotham. So that's where I'm at with that. How far away are we from Bryce requesting a trade? Yeah, there. Like I am so there.

No, it's not like there, there. Obviously, it's not quite there yet, but like a year? If they don't – A year and they don't get theo yes yeah i and and honestly i wouldn't be mad at him you know i am i would i would wholeheartedly not i can't support him because i'm a phillies fan but like i would wholeheartedly support that if i like have any player like i mean again like what we said before he he got conned, man. Like he got con like all Bryce Harper wants to do is win. Like I,

that sucks. I would, I, I feel for that dude. Yeah. Um, I do too. And I honestly,

it might be a year from now, it might be best for both parties. You know, it might, it might be best to be like, listen, we thought that when we signed you that we were going to be able to take this next step forward and we were closer than we were and we could facilitate players around you but i mean ultimately this might be going the ways of or going the way of a rod of the rangers i mean

signing this guy to a big money and then not being a bill team around him and they ship him away and obviously bryce had to agree to that but if i think i think if bryce sees the writing on the wall this team's gonna kind of go into a semi rebuild or whatever i i could see it being like yeah sure i mean it's it's it it would it might be best it might be best of both worlds you know phillips can kind of reset and get some money off the books and try again in a couple years. But at that point, we're a decade-plus removed from making the playoffs, which is great. But, yeah, I'm starting to think about Bryce requesting a trade, and I wouldn't be mad at him at all.

Yeah, and like you said, I mean, why waste his prime? Like, you know, if you're not going to be able to build a team around him and compete with him, like, what's the point? Like, it's unfair to him, and it's unfair to everybody. Like, and to Jack's point, like, you know, use him to build up assets. Get a bunch of stuff for Bryce Harper. You know, trade for some legitimate prospects. Like, that would make more sense.

It just is, like, it would be a real tough pill to swallowper you know trade for some legitimate prospects like that would make more sense it just is like it would be a real tough pill to swallow you know it just uh you know with the prospect the idea of signing bryce harper for us as we know i mean go back and listen to we got bryce pot i mean it's just the idea of like all right we're we're going man like this is real now and we got a a superstar to come here and supercharge this thing and like let's roll and like to turn around so quickly after that and and blow it all up um it would you know it really is disastrous it's a a horrific job of organizational competency and all that, but at the same time, it also, for this fan base, it's sad, man. It's kicking the junk for a fan base that has already waited nine years

to make the playoffs, and that's tacking on a lot more time now. And again, not knowing who's in charge of it and who's running it and who's building it, it's just a it's a bummer man it's a bad time and final thing here not that i want to bum me out even more but uh can't you can't you just envision i don't want i don't want to scare you or anyone listening to this podcast but like can't you already envision middleton at the the jim hendry introductory press conference saying the the sentence of uh jim hendry was a steve bartman drop valve ball away from being in the world series oh my god i can't i can't do a jim hendry press conference't come on be fun i'm not kidding we're taking a year off

we're gonna be a race yeah yeah or you know we'll just be like a smart baseball pod one episode we'll talk rays and we'll talk to dodgers we'll talk to indians no we'll be we'll be we'll be a fantasy baseball podcast okay i can take that yeah we're taking the year so solomoth john middleton you've heard this we keep our word we didn't do a pod for a week plus when we didn't fire matt clintack and we were willing to just stop so we're not gonna go away this time because we love that up listeners and it was there people were upset when we almost went away last time so we don't want to do that but hope you like fancy baseball talk you got two fancy baseball nerds talking to you right now. So we'll go deep, buddy. We'll go deep. We'll bring it. Get some dynasty talk going. I mean, that's like a perfect,

uh, MLB draft vehicle because we don't even have to just focus on the 13th pick. We could talk about all those guys and their dynasty rankings. They're drafted Jack. This is like, let's go. Yeah. Might, might have to do it anyway. But yes, I would, listen, give me Ned Rice and freaking McPhail for a year over injury. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I would take Ned Rice for a year over Jim Endry a million times out of a million. Like every single time. Every time.

Every time. Every time and every time, every time, every time. It's twice on Sunday. Oh my God. What a baseball team. What a baseball team. Excited to be here. Excited.

Oh, pal. All right. So next week, we're doing a perfect off season, a less fun. It's just going to be a bunch of one year, one year, $8 million deal guys.

Yeah. I can't. Oh, $8 million. Wow. I'm going to give out some one-year $1.3 million contracts. Let's go. Big money spent on Kirby Yates on a one-year $5 million deal. Yeah. Oh, you think Kirby Yates is coming that cheap?

I don't think so. We'll see. I mean, Robbie Ray just went for one-year $8 who knows yeah who knows who knows who knows fun time good times all right uh final thoughts uh final thoughts um i can't wait for the mlb draft That's the only thing I think that I'm excited for, for baseball in the next four, four months, five months, whatever.

Such a bummer. We'll try and have more fun next week. I promise. It's Thanksgiving's coming up. We'll figure out a way to, Oh, love a good focus, focus on some fun stuff.

And, uh, we'll get there. We're going through this together it's cathartic it's uh it's like a group therapy session you know we need this right now and and we'll get through it um and you know theo or bus jack nothing like putting all your eggs in the basket a year away from now wasting bryce's prime. But here we are. Here we are. Very on brand. Theo or bust?

He spreads himself. We'll see you later. All-star Closer. Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball isn't boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast.

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