High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Trout Phishing With The WIP Midday Show

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz join the WIP Midday Show's Hot Stove Summit to talk about all the latest Phillies rumors. Presented by Miller Lite. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All-star closer, Kenley Jansen, we have a question. What's the best podcast of all time? Baseball Isn't Boring, baby. I'm Rob Bradford, and every single day I'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion. It's a cause I started more than two years ago and is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is.

Another fact, so jump aboard the BIB Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. I think that's one thing about this contract that I'm able to do. Having 13 years in the place, I'm able to help recruit guys to this organization. Ownership understands it. Our manager is awesome, and I can really put that faith in myself

and being able to say, hey, we're going to go about the right way. We're the Philadelphia Phillies, and we want whoever wants to come to Philly. If you don't want to come to Philly, then don't come, you know, don't be part of it. But if you want to come and be part of a winning team and a winning culture, then, you know, we're going to need the best players to do that. You know, I think it's respecting Mike Trout in a certain way during the season and letting him play and do the things he needs to do to, of course, be Mike Trout. But if you don't think I'm not going to call Mike Trout in 2020 to have him come to Philly, you're crazy. That sounds like some Suge Knight, Death Row type situation.

I think it is, yeah. You don't want to produce a dance and all in the videos, all the other good stuff. 2020 to call Mike Trout, 2023, it doesn't matter. Welcome back. It is the Midday Show. Hugh Douglas, Joe Gigliotta. It's our Philly Summit, Hot Stove Summit. And we have a very special next couple segments.

We welcome in the High Hopes Podcast, James Seltzer, Jack Fritz with us here. How are we doing, guys? Yo. It's been a while. Who okayed this? I'm wondering who said this was okay. I guess it was just us. Feels like a big mistake.

It was just like four baseball guys. That's right. Four baseball guys. A bunch of baseball guys. And Black Gritty. And Black Gritty. Shout out to Black Gritty. In studio.

There's a lot of baseball guys in the studio. Who would ever put out an out-of-context Mike Trout quote from four years ago trying to draw up a conversation about it? Did it happen on WIP? It sure did. That's all that matters. Did it get tampering and did Bryce get fined? Maybe. So you know what? It better be worth it then. Let's talk about Mike Trout. We brought it happen on WIP? It sure did. That's all that matters. Did it get tampering and did Bryce get fined? Maybe. So you know what?

It better be worth it then. Let's talk about Mike Trout. We brought it up on Friday. I'm curious After we brought it up on Thursday. Yes. Oh, it's like that. It's always like that with this guy. You know what? Not everyone may have heard your take, Jack, or James is on this. So we invited you in here to give it.

So, Jack, maybe help me out because I tried to convince Hugh for four hours on Friday that they should go trout fishing. And this guy over here is scared about injuries and about age. Man, the dude's been hurt forever, man. That's great. Not in 2020. He only missed seven games in 2020.

Oh, yeah, the Bobo season. He didn't have enough time to get hurt. He said 2020 like it was 2023. Like, I was like, oh, yeah, no, no, that don't count. And even then, it's because the season was so short, he didn't have time to get hurt. If the season had gone on longer. Was it 2022 when he got hurt and came back and got hurt again,

like a day later? Listen, as someone who has owned him in fantasy for the last decade, I'm well aware of the Mike Trout injury history. It's just last year was a handmaid bone, you know? So that's not an injury? No, it's fluke. I like how everybody tries to make it seem like, oh, that's not a big that injury's not really an injury. If it was a back

or a hamstring, I'd be like, okay. Because it was a back before, so no big deal. I'm sure the back's fine now. Did he miss time because of the handmade bone? Yes, he missed time because of the handmade bone. Okay, so that's an injury. Yeah, I know, but it was more like he got hit in the arm. It's not like everything's giving out on him. So you said he's soft.

The injury thing is real. It's 100% a real part of this. But the upside of having Mike Trout here, I still would rather bank on the upside than worried about injury. Listen, I would too. And James, where are you on this? Because I understand there's a lot of risk involved. He's still really amazing when he plays though. I think

we've all realized he's not the player he was seven or eight years ago. That guy who probably was a top 10 player in the history of baseball is probably gone, and that's okay. If you look at his numbers the last five years, because I think the decline has happened, it's still really, really good. His numbers the last five years, when he's played, are better than Bryce's numbers, which is

ridiculous, because we know how good Bryce is. Where are you on the idea of trout fishing? So I was very strongly against it. Very strongly against it. And Jack made a very compelling case on the IOPs pod. I still personally, I'm probably not doing it if it's me. Look, it all comes down to how much of the contract's getting paid down. What are you giving up to get him?

Like, if it doesn't cost anything to bring Mike Trout in here, sure, I get it. I just, there are too many. If I'm paying a lot of money for this guy, and we've already got some big-time contracts coming. Like, they've got the Harper contract, the Turner contract. They're going to have to sign Zach Wheeler. They're going to bring in someone to replace Nola if it's not Nola. Like, there's a lot of money going out. And John Middleton has been really great about spending his money,

so we do have that. You know, it's a real positive. But I just think at a certain point it gets to be too much. And I just, Mike Trout's 31 years old. He's played less than half the games that he could have played the last three years in baseball. Like, I just – that's too big a risk for me. I guess the question is, in the moments –

like, I go back to the games that we had this last – the postseason. Is he available for those postseason games? That's the question you're asking yourself. Well, I think they'd have to manage him. Like, so what happened in – So we're going to pay all this money for a dude we got to put him on a pitch. Manage him. You have to manage him.

I mean, are we going to be dumb about him and play him in center field every day? No, you just don't pay for someone who's going to cost 40 million years to play. So what are you going to do in center field? We do NBA stuff, huh? He's Kawhi Leonard. A little load management. Never hurt anyone. We've done it with the basketball guy in town for years.

So what's your plan in the outfield if you don't get Mike Trout? Do you want me to give away my perfect offseason for the Iowa Swag? What you got? I would definitely trade for Juan Soto over Mike Trout. In a second, I would. Absolutely. Juan Soto is a way better baseball player than Mike Trout today, and he's five years younger, six years younger.

For a year. But you're already paying Mike Trout. Wouldn't I rather give the money that I'm going to give to Mike Trout and just put it towards a Juan Soto contract? You're getting Mike Trout a discount. You're paying Juan Soto top-of-the-market money. I'd rather pay Juan Soto top-of-the-market money than Mike Trout a discount. Do you want to win a World Series or not?

Now you want to win a World Series. I would like to be a part of it. I would like to be a part of it. I would like to be a part of it. I just don't understand how it's like, well, then go get Juan Soto when you just brought up five minutes ago. How about you get him to pay all these guys? But Juan Soto's going to stay on the field for me. I'm saying I can't pay all that money to someone who I don't think is going to stay on the field. Juan Soto's one of the great young hitters we've ever seen in the history of the game.

Juan Soto also probably costs more in a trade because he's better. Sure. Of course he would. Mike Trout. But it's only one year. It is only one year. You're trading for one year. Who puts you in a better position to win a World Series next year?

Juan Soto. Exactly. I'm trying to win a World Series right now. All right, let me ask you this. If they're both healthy entering October, who would you rather have on the field? Juan Soto. No, Trout. Wait a second.

How long is Trout going to be healthy, though, Joe? I said if they're both healthy on the field. Okay, but how long? Because Trout does give you. He's on the clock, though. Trout does provide something in the field. You know I love Juan Soto. I try to trade a Philly for Juan Soto every summer.

Every year. Okay? He can't play the field. I mean, Juan Soto, he's a butcher in left field. If you get Mike Trout, you get an all-around great player. But Mike Trout can't play the field because he can't stay on the field if he plays the field. I understand. You've got to manage him.

I broke a hemorrhoid bone. I'm out. Those happen. Those happen. What about the back injury? That's the first time I've heard of a hemorrhoid. He's probably the first one. How many people break a hemorrhoid bone?

The hemorrhoid bone is pretty big in baseball. I mean, Harper broke it last year or two years ago. It does happen. I'll fall off it. It's a big in baseball. I mean, Harper broke it last year or two years ago. It does happen. I'll fall off it. It's a big game. So Trout Soto is an interesting debate because I think they could probably pull off either of them. And it's a matter of which one would cost. Jack, the idea of the discount, I think we should hit more.

I mean, like two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, they wouldn't have had enough. They could have emptied every level of the farm system. They would have had a the citizens bank park. But now you can get Mike Trout for what would it cost for Mike Trout? I don't think it costs you're putting Cassianos in the deal. Yeah, just take him. Get him out. Well, hold

on a second. Just throw it away. That could be part of the deal so you can get some of the money down for sure. I had both Kyle and Hugh on Friday tell me they'd rather have Cassianos here than Trout next year. I would not say that. I would not say that, but I just, look,

I don't... Nick Castellanos plus prospects you're giving up to get him. Again, look, I'm not saying I'm fully out of Mike Trout. I'm not where he was. I'm not saying I would not take him here and I wouldn't be excited if he were a Philly. I just think that the allocation of resources, both money and prospects of what it would cost to get him, isn't worth the risk with a guy that I...

Look, I... But it's also not it for Juan Soto either. But Juan Soto's going to stay on the field. I think Mike Trout, like, I don't think we're ever seeing Mike Trout again. Like, I think this guy is going to have issues staying on the field for the rest of his career. Like, that's where I'm at. There's a lot of injuries back-to-back, like, in weird... Back-to-back-to-back-to-back. Weird injuries, man. Every year. Let me that's where I'm at. So a lot of injuries back-to-back, like in weird injuries, man.

Every year. Let me throw it this way at you. Would you rather trade Castellanos and just some lower-level guys for Trout and take on all the risks? So you're saying take on the whole contract. Take on the whole contract. Okay. Whole contract.

Okay. Or Soto, and you only know you're getting him for one year. I'd rather give up Mick Gable and whatever to get Juan Soto for a year and have my guy here and have a chance to sign him for long term. But your window is – you're lessening the window. Look, I think I'm signing Juan Soto long term. If I'm bringing Juan Soto here, I'm signing him long term. Why wouldn't I?

Well, Boris is taking him to free agency. Probably. The Phillies might be able to refund him, sure. But he's going to free agency. I'll do what it takes to get Juan Soto. I mean, he is speaking of my Juan Soto love. But Mike Trout, I just think we're forgetting how great Mike Trout is. He still is great.

If he plays 120 games, I think he's going to be more productive than whatever they put in the outfield next year. Of course he will be. If he plays 120 games. Let's put it this way. Do they need another left-handed bat in the lineup? No, not particularly. No, they have three or four, really, right, Marsh? They have four. But you're not getting a new right-handed bat. You're just No, not particularly. No, they have three, or four, really, right? Marsh, right?

But you're not getting a new right-handed bat. You're just changing Castellanos for Trout in that case. Sounds like a massive upside win. But the point is, the right-handed, left-handed thing isn't a factor here. They needed a patient righty in the lineup last year. But you're saying, do they need a left-handed bat? Do they need a right-handed bat? They're just trading one for the other.

But you're not getting a new right-handed bat. You're just trading one for the other. Sure. You're getting a better right-handed bat. Listen, I like one for the other. But you're not getting a new right-handed bat. You're just trading one for the other. Sure. You're getting a better right-handed bat. Listen, I like Juan Soto. But Juan is going to stay on the field. I know, I know. Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. You're ignoring the most important part of this discussion.

Because what am I supposed to do? He's going to get hurt all the time? No, you're supposed to factor that in. Juan Soto's here for a year, and then he's going to free agency. You're not giving up prospects to go get him. That's ridiculous. Yeah, I would. That's freaking ridiculous.

It's Mike Trout. He's one of the 10 best baseball players I've ever lived. What are we talking about? He can't. That's ridiculous. Yeah, I would. That's freaking ridiculous. It's Mike Trout. He's one of the 10 best baseball players to ever live. What are we talking about? He can't stay on the field. Oh, my God. Juan Soto's here for a year. Juan Soto will be here for a year, and then you're paying him $400 million to do what? I'm a little uncomfortable.

He's great. He's not going to be here. I'm very comfortable. This is the environment I'm in. He's a little aggressive. It's Mike Trout. Why? It's Mike Trout.

What are we talking about? Okay. For a year of Juan Soto? He's a little aggressive. It's Mike Trout. Why? It's Mike Trout. What are we talking about? Okay. For a year of Juan Soto? He's a little aggressive. Let me throw this angle into everyone, okay? Throw up. Here's what we know about the Phillies. We have the GM is, or whatever his name is, Sam Fold, but you have Dombrowski's the team president.

Whatever his name is. No, no, like I said GM. Dombrowski runs the show, but the assistant to the show is Bryce Harper, right? We all know this? Yes. The assistant GM. If Bryce Harper wants Mike Trout, Hugh Douglas, does that change your perspective? No.

I can't kowtow to Mike Trout. I mean, I can't like Bryce Harper all the time. The Phillies have been doing it for four years. No. Not in this situation. No, not in this situation. We can't have all your boys, man. He knows Juan Soto, too.

I'm sure he wouldn't be upset to have Juan Soto. Hey, Bryce, listen, I know you want Trout, but you know we're going to go grab Juan Soto and say, great, cool, guys. They didn't go to the Waste Management Open last year together. See, they did. But you know this. I mean, Juan Soto kind of took his spot in D.C. I mean, I don't think there's bad blood between them.

I just wonder. It seems like, and we played it from four years ago in, he'd want Trout here. I mean, he said this when he signed here. But that was four years ago when Mike Trout was not injured all the time. Bryce Harper wants to win. Bryce Harper wants to win. If Bryce wants Trout, we'll give him the best chance to win.

Much like Jalen Hurts, he keeps the main thing the main thing. If Bryce wants Trout, James, does it change your opinion? No. Okay. It doesn't. Does it enhance your opinion? I don't care. But they've done this forever now. But just because they've done it doesn't mean that I'm going to change what I believe is right for the franchise. I respect that.

And again, especially because if I thought Bryce Harper would be devastated and he would be crushed if they brought in Juan Soto instead of Mike Trout, maybe I would talk to Bryce about it. But I don't think he would. I think he'd be super happy to have Juan Soto here. I just don't think this is a – I think it's a non-starter. Yeah. The Harper part of it.

The window. I mean, is this a one-year thing, or are we trying to continue this for years to come? Like, what is the Phillies window in both of your opinions? But again, Mike Trout, like, you guys are – I'm looking at Mike Trout differently than you, that I don't think Mike Trout is a part of a long-term window. Like, I think the best of Mike Trout is done.

Way done. I think we all agree with that. But what do you mean he's done? He's still a good player when he's on the field. The best – but when – exactly my point is – But you're acting like he's done? He's still a good player when he's on the field. The best – when exactly? My point is – But you're acting like he's going to die on the field if he plays next year. He's played less than half the games the last three years, Jack.

You can't ignore that. He had 32 games, then he played 113, 120, 82, like whatever. 82. As long as he's playing in the most important times, I don't care. We don't know that he will be. If he's playing in left field, if he's playing in left field in the. If he's playing in left field, he's more likely to get hurt. Great.

I think we'd all agree. Hold on. We'd all agree the best is over for Mike Trout. But the baseline was so high that if we're getting 75% of Mike Trout, it's better than all but, what, like 15 baseball players? 75% for 50% of the games. Like, what's that? But you're acting like he's going to play 50% of the game. But, again, I have to factor that into my evaluation when I'm making a decision.

I have to say, oh, this guy has struggled to stay on the field. When was the last time he played 150 games? Oh, wait. Years and years. He doesn't stay on the field. He always has nicks and nacks. He's always got issues. And as he gets older, he's going to be 32.

We're getting to the point where the injuries pile up even more historically. Why would I think if he has struggled to stay on the field from age 28 to 31 that he's going to be better at it from 32 forward? Why? That makes zero sense. It doesn't mean he's going to keep getting hurt. James, your point on risk and the trajectory is bad. I agree with you.

But he could have a healthy year next year. We've seen this before. Ken Griffey Jr. had agree with you. But he could have a healthy year next year. I mean, we've seen this before. Ken Griffey Jr. had these issues, and then he declined, but he stayed on the field a little bit for the Reds. He had 40-arm runs his first year. There's a chance wherever Trout plays next year, he could be the MVP of the league next year if he plays. I mean, I think that's the part that I'm still going at.

He's still great. People also thought Embiid's career was on a downswing, too, and Embiid stayed healthy the last couple years, won an MVP last year, and he's completely changed his... That's a very different comment. But it's not yet. He had a back injury, he had foot problems, and he had a knee injury. But that's when he was really young. What about Grant Hill? Grant Hill was a player that was

always hurt, and then he didn't get hurt the last seven, eight years of his career. I think the injury thing is there. He was used differently. The injury thing is 100% there. I'm not discounting that. I just I'm willing to take the chance to get what I think is a top 15 player in baseball for what I think the next three years matter the most to this organization because it's all these guys' primes. Whereas I don't know if Juan Soto is going to be here three years from now.

If I'm giving up all that for one year, I think that's a huge mistake. You win the World Series with Juan Soto, he'll be here. Maybe. Still, it's like if you win the World Series, he's still here. I still think he hits free agency. Whereas Mike Trott, I know is signed for the next seven years. Yeah, and it could be an albatross of a contract that we're looking at

and saying, wow, this is a disaster that this is on our books. It could be. It's a risk. But he's also a great player. Howard, how much do we factor in, because it seems like this is all about risk. What's the bigger risk? Losing Soto, trading for Soto, the whole Trout contract. Should the Phillies stopped taking big risks.

Haven't they built this whole team on big risk? I mean, they have a shortstop for 11 years at 30 years old. Like, that's a super risky contract, and year one obviously wasn't great for Trey Turner. After August 4th, it was great.

You didn't have to do standing O. It was great. People forget that. It was legit great. That's a full year, though. 10-57 OPS. No, it wasn't. You'll never let us forget that.

No, I agree. I respect that. But I agree. More risk. The Soto's a risk, too. They're all risk. year, though. 10-57 OPS. No, it wasn't. You'll never let us forget that. No, I agree. I respect that. But I agree. More risk. The Soto's a risk, too. They're all risks. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I just, but that makes me feel better about the Trout thing, Jack.

They've built this whole, Wheeler was a risk when they signed him. He couldn't stay healthy, and then he stayed healthy. I think Bryce Harper's probably the least risky thing they've done, because he was pretty. 26 years old. That was not a risk. JT RealNuto was a risk. They give a catch with that much money. But not that bigger. I mean, they give the catch with the money, sure.

Right, but in his 30s, I mean, this whole thing has been built on risk. What's one more? Just throw one more. Yeah, sure. That's a smart way to do business. Listen. Let's just keep risking and eventually it won't catch up with us. Eventually it does. It's like saying, I'm at the blackjack let's just keep risking, and eventually it won't catch up with us.

Eventually it does. It's like saying, I'm at the blackjack table. I keep winning, keep winning. Oh, I'm going to double down. I'm going to keep doubling down. Then at a certain point, you're going to freaking lose. James, I understand that, but it's not like they have a – all right, you're at the blackjack table. You probably shouldn't make your living at the blackjack table.

The Phillies have no other way of players unless they sign them or trade for them. They developed a couple of good players here for a decade, maybe five good players in a decade. But they have put infrastructure in. Yes. Look, in the last three, four years, the amount of prospects that they've drafted and developed to a certain level

where they're assets. I mean, like you said, four years ago, we didn't even talk about trading for Mike Trout. Now we're talking about Mick Gable and Justin Crawford and Nate Miller, and there's all these prospects in the organization. That's because they have a new infrastructure. That's because they have Brian Barber and Preston Mattingly and all these guys behind the scenes where I trust those guys

to replenish what I'm going to trade away, whereas that's not a trust I've had before. So I do think you have to take that into account when you're discussing these type of moves is organizational strength and the ability to replenish. Are you guys surprised that it's been so split on the Trout thing? I heard you guys on Thursday, Jack, when you first brought it up. It was split for us on Friday.

I thought more people, just because it's Mike Trout, right? It's the guy people have dreamed about playing here since he debuted 12 years ago. Are you surprised it's been so split? No, because I think people are worried about the injury and the cost. I mean, people think it's going to cost more prospect-wise than I think it ultimately will. Also, I do think there's a little, a little bit, a little bit, and maybe this is led by me, which is, I'll take the blame for it.

Well, you do lead movements. That's what you do. A little bit led by me of he turned his back on the city. Oh, we heard that like ten times on Friday. Because he did. He did. Every little Jimmy and Joe around the city who grew up playing baseball would have loved to play for the Phillies. And he said, I'm good.

I'm going to stay in. You never really hit free agency. He didn't have a Philly's author. He signed that contract like right after the Harper. Yeah. Like, all right, guys. Enough. Plus, I think people are.

I think people are. This is Bryce's town. We don't need an imposter. But what they do. They need a real Philly guy. They need a real Philly guy here, like Bryce Harper. They need a real Philly guy from Las Vegas, like Bryce Harper. Well, hold on.

This station's built off fake Philly guys. I mean, we had the Rhode Island guy who was here forever. Wow. Massachusetts guy. We have Ike from Cincinnati. I mean, you from Central Jersey. I feel like I'm about to be attacked. You're from Ohio.

I'm from Ohio. You're right. I mean, there's only a couple real Philly people here. Me, obviously. When you think of Philadelphia, you think of me. You think of Jack Fritz. Seltzer's born in New York. I was, yeah.

Kyle Quinn, you hear that back there? That's real. Mr. Hoagie now? That's real. Of course, that's real Philadelphia. That's Delco right there. Probably the biggest Philly guy in these two rooms. Marks, Willow Grove.

You're from Westchester. My dad went to Cheltenham with Reggie Jackson. I mean, come on. Well, he thought Reggie Jackson had to be clutch. No, he thought Reggie Jackson was very nice in high school, apparently. Reggie would be nothing without your dad. No, my dad was not close to Reggie Jackson. So, all right, the whole thing about Bryce's impact in this.

Do they need another star or do they need to tweak this? So, here's my thing. Is there any part of you worried a little bit about an A-Rod Jeter thing? With Bryson Trout? Sure, a little bit. I mean, the room's only big enough for so much air. I mean, hold up. They won a World Series together, though.

They did. It did take six years, and they did blow a 3-0 lead their first year together. Well, they won a World Series. I know. I'm just saying. Off of the pleaded Phillies team with Pedro Martinez starting game two.

Yeah, that was a mistake. No, I'm not really worried about it, but a part of me was thinking, does this have A-Rod, Jeter? I just don't think Trout wants to be that guy is the thing. I agree. Do you worry about Trout not wanting it? Well, I think Trout comes here and is very happy to let Bryce Harper be the face of the team and all that.

I don't know if Trout wants to come home. I certainly don't know that. He says he doesn't. He's a fraud. I will say this. Somebody slid in my DM and told me this. They said he is fiercely loyal to the team that drafted him. I've heard that before, too.

That's one of the main reasons why. Yeah, well, why can't he be fiercely loyal to his hometown? That's why I re-up. No, I heard the same thing about Dame Lillard, though, and then eventually asked for a trade. Eventually, everyone has a breaking point. But I think this might be real with Trout though. I think it might be real because that's

not the first time that somebody slid into my deals and told me that. We were talking about it. They said that. Might be right, but then at some point he's going to be remembered as a loser. I mean, that's the truth. I think it's already there. I think that he has enough money that he really doesn't care. That's fine, but if he doesn't get out of there,

he's going to be forgotten in his own era. Think about the players that have just on the stage more than him. Mookie Betts, Corey Seager, Bryce Harper. I mean, Shohei. Shohei. Yeah, and in reality, he's better than all these guys except Shohei as a player, and no one talks about him. So, Hugh, you might be right, but

I don't care. I want to trade for him. I want to put it in front of him, Jack. I want to put the trade offer in front of him and say, here's the trade. Will you accept it? I want to make him say no to the Phillies. And then I want to trade for him. I want to put it in front of him, Jack. I want to put the trade offer in front of him and say, here's the trade. Will you accept it? I want to make him say no to the Phillies. And then I want that report out there. Well, then it's selfish for him. Selfishly, I would like that report out there.

You're ready to turn on him before he – Well, no, he's just like – and I do think that he has to think about his legacy at some point. If you just go through your entire career at the Angels, where are they going after Shohei? I mean, after Shohei. Nowhere. Nowhere.

They're done. They're done after Shohei. He's done already. Yeah, they've been done. He can't go into his mid-30s with two playoffs. One. One. Remember Jake Cave tied him with one playoff hit?

It's just, I mean. It's embarrassing. It's awful. It's awful. And it honestly would be a shame for the history of baseball. Well, that's the biggest thing. I think it's a travesty for baseball. If he rejects a trade to the Phillies, does he have to give up the Eagles tickets?

Is that the way this works? Oh, we said he had to give up the Eagles tickets when he didn't come before. Yeah. We've been long out on it. We've been. Honestly, I think it's an embarrassment when they show up at the Eagles games. Y'all are wild. No, Hugh, they got to pull the tickets.

Yeah, you can't. Pull the tickets. Plus, I mean, let's be honest. The Eagles got to pull the tickets. Let's be honest. We all remember the original thing. Him and Carson were buddies. Like, the whole day, always bad vibes.

Oh, you know what? Maybe I'm wrong. He was a Carson guy. Remember that? You might have swung me. They were like best buddies. Why wouldn't you be a Carson guy? You love this team.

It's so cool. All right. That's enough. 2-1-5, 5-9-2, 9-4-9-4. We'll come back. The High Hopes guys, Seltzer and Fritz are in. We'll take your phone calls. And we'll throw out a name that was reported last night.

Are the Phillies in on one of baseball's best closers? Should they be? That and the pitching stuff next with Jack and James. It is the Midday Show on Sports Radio 94 WIP. Hey, fantasy football owners. The road to winning your fantasy football championship starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from Reception Perception. Join me and James Coe as we take a deep dive into the position

that's going to make or break your fantasy roster. Wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share, and all the metrics that matter, giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers. As you prep for your draft, let us give you the coverage you need. Follow and listen to Reception Perception on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. So I'm going to go straight to those teams that are either trying to repeat

as World Series champs like the Rangers or get there like the Phillies when you consider the struggles of Craig Kimbrell and the overall lack of reliable bullpen innings they had late in those games in the NLCS. I look at both the Rangers and Phillies as strong candidates to sign. Josh Hader, you mentioned him there, the multiple-time All-Star. He is, I believe, the top of the class of free agent relief pitchers. That's a big one. Josh Hader's name now out there connected to the Phillies. Welcome back.

It is our Phillies Hot Soap Summit. Hugh Douglas, Joe Giglio live in studio with us. The High Oaks guys, Jack Fritz and James Saltz. Before we get into this Hader thing and the pitching situation this offseason, we've got to thank the Jug Handlin for bringing us some wings. Wow. So the Jug Handlin for bringing us some wings. Wow. The Jug Handlin, Hugh, you went there a couple weeks ago at the Eagles game.

Got like 30 of them things that only lasted two days. And now they must have brought us I don't know, like 200 wings in there? Yes. They're probably all gone by this point. But see, here's the thing. They, like, Nicole, his wife, Kevin's wife, she said, try these pumpkin spice wings. You know, I'm all out on like applesauce and pork chops and all that stuff.

Again, that's not that weird. No, but I was like, but I got to say, it is kind of weird, though. It's not. A little bit. You're eating maple bacon, Hugh, and you're scaring pork chops on applesauce. It's the same thing, dog. It's not the same thing. Salty, sweet.

But can I get to these pumpkin wings? These pumpkin wings, man, I'm telling you. I can't hate on it, but like I told Nicole, still not doing the applesauce in the pork chop. That's okay. As long as you eat the wings from the jug. But the wings, the pumpkin. We look at Black Gritty. You had one of the pumpkin wings, too.

The pumpkin wings is fire. I mean, pumpkin and everything is good. No, fire. No, no. No, Joe, we're not about to do that. All right, well, let's do the wing thing. We're not about to say pumpkin. Pumpkin and everything do the wing thing. We're not about to say pumpkin. Pumpkin everything.

The wings of the Jug Handle. That's good stuff. The Jug Handle Inn. Always good times. Amazing food. Award-winning wings at the Jug Handle Inn in Cinnaminson. The Jug Handle Inn.com. Tastes like Thanksgiving, though.

Like, the wings do taste like Thanksgiving. Well, I know they're going to be gone pretty soon. Everyone ran into that room. It smells great. The food is great from the Jug. Go check them out. All right, the Josh Hader thing, that popped up last night. James, what do you think?

Hader is obviously a tremendous pitcher. He's had, I'd say, out of seven years, six have been really dominant, including last year. He had one bad year two years ago. Where do you stand on Hader and just the idea of getting a closer? Because the Phillies haven't had one in

a while. It's probably since Papelbon like one guy you could count on for multiple years. Gene Margomez. Again, since Papelbon, it's been a long time. So I have historically been very, oh, you know, doesn't matter. You just get good pitchers, get guys you can stick in different spots. You can do committee, whatever. I'm fully in on getting closer, man. And it's the Kimbrel thing.

It's the last couple years, like, I'm there. Whether it's Hader, whether it's trading for someone who's cost-controlled for a while, whatever, like a Bednar or someone like that. Like, I need someone at the back end of this bullpen. I can't do it anymore. I can't do the, who's going to come in? Oh, Kimbrel, this, that.

Nope. Just give me a dude who's going to shut it down at the end of games, and Hader's the best at it in baseball right now. So, sure. Jack, the way I was thinking about it today is, like, the Phillies don't need Josh Hader to get to the playoffs. They don't need him for the regular season. No.

But they need him for – they need that for the playoffs. That's when the value of a closer – because I'm mostly with James, that you could just get to the playoffs just with decent relievers and just mix and match. But we saw it this year. We saw it last year, too. But just think about if they had Josh Hader in Game 3 and Game 4 in Arizona.

The Phillies are in the World Series. Do you think that if they pay him, he'd be more open to coming in the 8th, 9th? Which he used to do. Remember, he was young. I think he just wants to get paid. I think that's partially like didn't want to risk his arm, didn't want to do anything.

I think he's going to be a free agent. He knew it. He wants to get a big deal. And then I do think he'll be more real. Just to let everyone know, there was a weird thing in San Diego last year where Melvin tried to bring him in the eighth inning, and he basically said, nah. Well, the other weird thing was that he also said,

I'm not pitching anymore at the end of the year. Yeah, which is weird, but also, like, that, I mean, that San Diego thing seemed like a disaster. It did. From a clubhouse perspective, they all hated each other. The manager ran out of town. The manager ran out immediately the gm had no handle on the whole thing so like i don't love that but i also think that like it can

be explained in this situation i mean it's such a philly's move i mean it's what they do in their history i mean it started with wagner i mean it's essentially like wagner uh and then obviously they traded for lidge and then they brought in Pavel Bon. Like, it's something they've always valued. And it feels like the right time to go get that guy. I mean, I know the Phillies, the last couple years, they haven't really done it. But I also think that's because they didn't have that guy. Like, I'm so sick and tired of the one-year $10 million deal for Kimbrel Knable.

Like, Jerry Familia. Familia, yeah. Like, it's every single freaking offseason. Remember when Familia didn't cover first base? Yes. And Girardi looked like he was going to just die on the field? Well, I remember his shoe was untied. That's why.

His shoe was untied. That's why he couldn't get over there. So the one thing I don't love about Hayter is I don't love having to give a draft pick to sign him, but that's just me. That's the classic for us. That's just me. So if they sign him, I'd be fine with it. I think that having a real lockdown guy and letting Alvarado, letting Sir Anthony, letting those guys kind of be the firemen

before you get to the ninth is a big deal. But if it's Bednar or Devin Williams or a trade for a guy, I would also be on board for that. I think that, you know, that would be a great fit, but I think that people are missing a big piece of this. Like, everybody can't pitch here. Everybody can't play here. And in his past, like, he's had some, like, in his younger days,

he's had some questionable things in his past. So what's to say is going to happen, say, if it doesn't go his way the first couple times he pitches here? Is he going to go on Twitter and say some old crazy stuff or something like that? Everybody can't play in Philadelphia, man. Oh, that's true. You have to.

You have to. I think that when you start talking about bringing guys in, you kind of have to factor that in because this is a tough place to play, especially if you're not living up to the expectations that people put forth on you. So big picture, it's an interesting point, Hugh. We have a couple minutes left with I Hope's Guys. How much just everything, whether it be Soto, Trout, Hayter, any name we talk about, how much do you think the Phillies, James, need to factor in the very unique clubhouse thing they got going on right now?

Or is it like, hey, we're trying to win a World Series. We've got to get the best players because they have a tight-knit group. Are you subtract from that? You add to that. Maybe it's not the same next year. I think they have to worry about it. I don't think it could be the only factor. I don't think you say absolutely not to a great player just because of that.

But I think it's a really important part of this team. I think it's part of the reason they were so good this year. I think it's part of the reason we all thought they were going to go on a run and really finish things out. I think it matters. I'm a big culture guy in sports. I think it's as big a reason as anything the 2017 Eagles won the Super Bowl, that we all we got, we all we need.

I think it really matters. So I take it very seriously, and it would be something that would be a factor in my decision. How about the vibes, Jack? Well, that's why the Cassianos thing kind of felt weird to me, because I do think he is an important part of that. You know, his first year he was not the most vocal leader, but he was very much in Alec Boehm's corner.

And then last year, I mean, we all remember he's on the top step of the Eterna Ovation thing, and a lot of the young guys look up to Nick Cassianos. So I think that's one you've got to tread lightly with. lot of the young guys look up to Nick Cassiano. So I think that's one you got to tread lightly with. But I mean, you're not losing. Losing Hoskins and Nola is losing like core to their core Phillies. I think with Schwarber and Harper and JT, like they have enough to kind of overcome that.

But you can't let too many of those guys go. Like even for marginal upgrades or like upgrades. It's something they have to think about. And it's part of why Dombrowski, I think, has been such a great GM for a long time is he does value that stuff. Yeah, I think it's more of a consideration than I would have thought three years ago. You've never been a big culture guy.

You're like, go get the great players, wave the magic wand, get rid of Trey Turner. You're a big just get the guys here and they'll figure it out guy. So I've bent a little bit on that. Good. Stay true to who you are, bro. If I could trade some player that's not very good for a great one,

I'm going to do it every single time. Screw the culture? You've got to get good players to win. Also, the culture's great. Schwarber's here. He's fine. Well, Schwarber's – I've never traded Schwarber. Of course.

It's one thing if they're winning World Series after World Series. Then you don't mess it up. No, I agree. It's just weird. They didn't win. They didn't win. I'm not messing up a championship team. It's an almost.

It's a team that choked in the end, too. So, yeah, that's why I said it's not my main decision factor, but I think it has to be included. And I think what you said has to be included, too. Can they handle it? Yeah, this city is different, man. Not everyone can come in here and handle this city. And you don't know, but you have to put that as part of your evaluation.

Do you think this guy can handle it? Well, you always do a standing O to rescue someone. Yeah, you could do that. But I think about you have to be able to fit the culture of this city. You have to. And haters only pitched in Milwaukee and San Diego. San Diego, yeah. And Alec Bowman and –

Veerle. Veerle took him out. They ended his career in Milwaukee. I know. They broke him. They did break him. He didn't allow a run before June of the year before. He was the best left-handed reliever we'd ever seen.

It may have been the most shocking Phillies win I've ever seen. Me too. I couldn't believe it. For both those guys to do that it was the most... It was unreal. Yeah. It's a great call. That's how you knew something was different that season. Things were changing. Alright, we appreciate BoJack and James coming in. So, new High Hopes when, and is it the perfect off-season pod?

Perfect off-season Thursday. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's a big one. Oh, boy. It's a big one. Well, and you can tell by the way we battled. It's probably going to be a pretty entertaining one, if I had to guess. A little different.

Yeah, we don't battle quite as much, but I don't think we're going to. I think they'll be different off-seasons. All right, well, I'll be listening. Everyone should download the High Hopes podcast. Thank you guys for coming in. You're the best. Hey, no problem at all. We appreciate it. Jim Salisbury joins us next.

You're bringing some real people in here. I appreciate that. We're going to bring a... Class this up! We're classing it up. Jim Salisbury next on Sports Radio 94.