High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - What Was That?

Episode Date: October 12, 2019

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz record another "emergency" podcast to react to a stunningly awful Phillies press conference featuring John Middleton, Andy MacPhail, and Matt Klentak, and to discuss what it means for the team (and our "High Hopes") moving forward. See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the High Hopes Podcast with James Seltzer and Jack Fritz. This is the High Hopes Podcast. High Hopes. It's a bunch of baseball nerds talking about the Philadelphia Phillies on Radio.com and Sports Radio 94 WIP. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. What the hell was that? It is another edition of the formerly known as the High Hopes Podcast, soon to be known as the Low Hopes Podcast. Fritzy, we got a lot of people who said we need to hear from you guys

after that debacle that happened yesterday. So to channel Jalen Rose had to got to give the people give the people what they want all right that will be the highlight of the podcast jack wow that was pretty good thank you sir you know you got to do it sometimes we're here for the people we always are um a lot of recording this week thanks to the phillies but man jack let's dive in as uh i'm sure most people listening or everyone listening has heard or seen the press conference by now with middleton clintac and mcphail and um man i mean jeez louise if you haven't and you want to torture yourself pause this and go watch it and come back but we'll tell you all about it if you haven't.

Man, Jack, I'll let you just kind of go here, but just the basic initial thought for me was maybe the worst press conference I've ever seen, certainly in Philadelphia sports, Jack. Yeah. I would say it was up there with the uh stacy andrews day sean andrews i mean was it sean i thought you're right stacy for the press you're correct yes yes yes stacy andrews day you are correct i forgot about that good call yes when the eagles moved

on from uh from from brian dawkins yeah it was, like, as a Phillies fan and as a lifelong Phillies fan and as everyone that listens to this podcast knows, like, James and I both just love the Phillies and we want them to succeed and be a smart organization and bring winning baseball back to Philadelphia because ultimately winning baseball is fun

and winning baseball is amazing and you see what the Nationals are doing right now. You see what's going on in the playoffs. And you're seeing smart, well-run, on one path organizations. And in leaving that press conference yesterday, as a lifelong Phillies fan, and as the Phillies really being all I care about, it was disheartening.

To say the least, Jack. Yeah, like, I just, I felt, obviously, as everyone else said, I felt worse after listening to the press conference. And then, like, it just instilled no confidence in me. Like, this is supposed to be a team in a in a top five market that's firing on all cylinders and that is that is just has a plan a very clear plan of how they're going to bring a championship back to philadelphia and they spent

56 minutes 57 minutes or whatever yep and i they didn't explain anything like it was it was crazy to me i i feel like they're unprepared and middleton goes on for 11 minutes talking about being a ceo jack something that like that 11 minute answer was among the worst things i've ever seen in a press conference it was just it was it was rambling. It was incoherent rambling about nothing. I couldn't believe it. Like, as he kept going, I could, I just kept saying, is he still talking? He's still talking?

What's he talking about? What is happening? It was unbelievable. It was stunning. He's actually still talking. Yeah, he is. He's still talking right now. So like, I just, I wanted to leave that press conference

being like, all right, this is what they're going to do going forward like they fire the manager for this reason and and they have a clear plan of how they're going to get this team back on track and what i just saw was it was a was this was an owner now i guess ceo that's like yeah i'm calling all the shots here i'm calling the big shots and if you don't like it you can get out it's basically what it was it was like if you don't like it, you can get out. It's basically what it was. It was like, if you don't like how I'm running the ship here, then you can just leave. And McPhail and Klintzak just sat there,

and they took it for 50 minutes, for 56 minutes. There's only two ways this is going to go, James. Obviously, you can never fire an owner, right? I mean, owners just, unless he sells a team, they're not going anywhere. Yeah, or if he pulls a Donald Sterling, which I'm not expecting with John Milton. John Milton's a good dude.

Yes, exactly. And honestly, in watching it, I think his heart's in the right place. But like, it's either going to go the path of Jeffrey Lurie, where Jeffrey Lurie stepped in and made his presence felt and made sure they fired Chip, brought back Howie, and got a franchise quarterback, or it's going to go the way of the Daniel Snyders, the Jerry Jones,

the involved owners that just get too involved and care too much about public perception and stunt an organization's ability to win. And I left that press conference yesterday feeling more towards the, he's going to interfere too much, this is too dysfunctional, who is going to want to come here

with an overbearing owner that doesn't let his baseball people do his baseball people things. I wanted to leave that press conference thinking, okay, he's going to go the Jeffrey Lurie route where he's going gonna get in and get out like we haven't heard from jeffrey lorry since the super bowl like he just hasn't talked because he hasn't needed to talk because everything's good with the eagles mostly um and i just i just don't know if i think middleton's almost so involved that he just can't he can't step away and that scares scares me. That scares me as a lifelong sports fan.

Owners that get too involved, it generally doesn't go well. It's terrifying, and I agree. That was the main takeaway from yesterday was, man, John Middleton is running this show, and he is way, way too involved. And like you said, I mean, his answer, when asked about the team not, the Matt Breen question,

shout out to Matt Breen and shout out to the reporters. I mean, Eskin, we all talked about on Twitter, Howard Eskin was fantastic in that press conference. John Johnson asked a good question. Absolutely. The reporters did their job. They did everything they could to try and elicit the answers we wanted. The problem was

these guys didn't give good answers. They gave ridiculous... You said it, Jack. Honestly, it seems like they didn't even know they were going into a press conference. That's the way it felt. Well, outside... I would say outside of McPhail. I was going there.

That's the craziest part of this whole thing is if you've listened to this show at all, you know that Andy McPhail has been the number one source of our, what the F is he doing here? I are. And he was by far the only adult in the room. The only person who looked like he had any idea how to handle questions. He looked like the only idea person who had an idea to prepare for questions that John Johnson question. If we don't, we don't. He's like, yep. Knew this was coming. Had a, you know, look, you're never going to be able to explain that away. And he even said, I'm an idiot. I'll never say it again. I shouldn't have said it.

Like, he had an answer ready for it. The fact that McPhail was the only one who felt like he knew what he was doing and all up there was terrifying. I'm very with you there. But when the Matt Breen question, when essentially he was asked, you know, how can you blame Gabe Kapler when this front office didn't do anything to upgrade this team? You're blaming Kapler essentially.

And what a soft answer it was that Middleton's main reason for getting rid of Kapler was the two September collapses. But Breen very correctly says, well, how can you blame that on Kapler when you guys didn't do anything to go out and add pieces? And he basically just says, sorry, it's all in that on Kapler when you guys didn't do anything to go out and add pieces? And he basically just says, sorry, it's all on the manager. That's how baseball works. What manager of any stature is going to want to come be this guy's manager?

Right? I mean, who could hear? If you're Joe Girardi, if you're Joe Maddon, if you're whoever, you hear that, that phrase, sorry, it's all on the manager. That's the way baseball's worked for 100 years. Why would you ever come here, Jack? Well, especially if those guys saw what Gabe Capital was working with. Yeah.

If Joe Girardi's like, is that a Mike Morin? No, is that Mike Morin in a tie game in the eighth inning? Is that my setup, man? Oh, my God. Yeah, like, I understand. I understand where Middleton came from when he's talking about 20 and 36 in the last two Septembers. And, I mean, me and you said it while watching it, like the fight just didn't seem there.

Something felt off watching this team in September. And I understand why he did it, but the question's completely fair. How can you fire a guy for bad Septembers when at a deadline, your president is saying if we don't, we don't, and basically throwing

in the white flag? How are you judging the manager off of that, but you're bringing back the two guys that gave the manager the main reasons as to why the team was collapsing like honestly after hearing middleton talk yesterday and talking about how results-based business and that's falls on the manager two things what does he think a manager does and and a second thing is why is matt clintak still here? My main takeaway in reading everything I've literally spent last night. Yeah, Jack just keeps texting me. I'm watching it again.

I think that's happened three times already. I'm watching again. I watched it this morning again. I got 40 minutes through. And I cannot believe Matt Klintak still has a job. And I think that the only reason he still has a job is because of the extension that he got. Obviously, the only reason he still has a job is because of the extension. Yeah, John Middleton doesn't want to look like a fool.

That's what it is. He called him Branch Rickey. He said he's an elite general manager. He gave him an extension seven months ago. John Middleton doesn't want to admit his fault there. That's what it is. Yeah, and for this whole results-based business and this all falls to the manager,

like, dude, dude he i think he thinks i actually wonder if he spent a little too much time with old old jeffrey over there because like going firing chip kelly and firing gabe capler is not one in the same no like chip kelly chip kelly a football coach. Football coaches do a lot more than what baseball managers do. Way more! And especially Chip, who sees control. People forget part of the reason Jeffrey did it when he did was

because Chip Kelly essentially had taken control of personnel and then wasn't taking any responsibility for those decisions. It's an incredibly different situation. And for what it's worth, Laurie acted decisively and didn't wait 11 days after the season.

He fired him before the last game of the season, which you almost never see in the NFL. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But here's the thing. I want to give John, like I like how thorough he is about decisions. That doesn't bother me too much. I know what you're saying.

The only reason it bothers me is because of how it treated Kapler. It makes Kapler into this sympathetic figure. It was just, and again, if Middleton, they talk in this press conference about how Middleton, in the month of July, is when he's starting to question Kapler. It still takes you that long after the season. You couldn't see this coming. They were out of it by September 1st. We all knew it.

They weren't technically, but we all knew it. We talked about it nonstop. Really? You need all that time after the season, even though you for so long. And what that speaks to, Jack, is the indecision between this front office, the fact that he didn't want Kapler here,

but didn't trust his guys. I mean, the fact that Andy McPhail point blank said I had to bridge the gap between these two guys, I couldn't believe they put that out there. I mean, that's just saying, here, look at our dysfunction, baseball world, fans, everybody. We three guys on a decision about our manager were so effed up in the way we're doing it

and the way we can't agree with each other, that it took us 11 days and I had to bridge the gap between these two. That was so bad, Jack. Yeah, and then how about Klintak? He says, he spends like three minutes talking about how great Kapler was, how great the culture

was, how we're not where we are today without Gabe Kapler or whatever. and then at the end he goes this is about as collaborative as possible i have the quote the quote was as collaborative as it could be what the hell is that like i want a front office that's just collaborative like we don't need to be as it could be. That's bad, man. And then for Clint to act to blame the market for Gabe not being here anymore basically was unbelievable. Basically blame fans.

He basically said, y'all couldn't handle Kapler. And whether or not there is truth, like, we all know there's some truth to that. We all know that there are people in this city who have been calling for Kapler's head since the moment he got here and all that. But you don't say that, Matt. Like, what is wrong with you? He's clearly just so upset that they fired Kapler. Oh, he is super pissed.

Yeah, it looks like he lost his puppy yesterday. It did. He looked like a deer in headlights that entire press conference. He wanted to be anywhere else on earth. He'd rather be in a prison cell in some small Russian town than sitting up in that press conference. He wanted to be anywhere else on earth. He'd rather be in a prison cell in some small Russian town than sitting up in that press conference. And Middleton, I think quite candidly that this is a learning experience.

I can just imagine Matt being like, oh my God, get me out of here. And then for Howard to have the stones to ask that question. I loved it. With those two that question. I loved it. With those two sitting there. I love it. I was so, I texted him. I was like, Howard, that was awesome.

And he's like, I did what had to be done. And he's right. Well, I mean, we all know Howard. I mean, he was boasting about how he was going to ask that question. But he's great at it. He still deserves credit for it. Like you said, it takes stones to go in there and look Matt Klintak and Andy McPhail

in the face as John Middleton sitting there and be like, why are these two guys here? That takes some stunts. The most asinine thing from yesterday, of all the asinine things, was without a doubt, as Howard asked about the minor league system and how

horrible it is. Oh yeah, buddy. I was going to get there. Right. And how horrible it is. And first off, even mentioning a doubt as howard asked about the minor league system and how oh yeah buddy i was gonna get there right and how horrible it is and first off even mentioning cole irvin in that in that thing it's like cool when they brought up cole irvin who stinks um but for howard to ask that question about how bad the farm system is mid Middleton, to get the question, shush off Andy McPhail and say, yeah, but let's think about it this way. In the first half, our bullpen was 26th, and in the second half, we were fourth in the ERA. What does that even mean?

Unbelievable. And how about this response to that as well, saying this? He said, quote, unquote, John Middleton said, you tell me what part of this organization isn't better today and really substantially better today than it was four years ago when they came. Are you freaking kidding me, John? Like, is that a, what a freaking asinine thing to say.

Dude, your farm system is a disaster. And these guys had four years to build it four years it is like to defend them in that way and to say like that was like the image that middleton gave there is like we're good you guys don't know what you're talking about everything's going great here it was it was so asinine but jack my head hurts just rereading that quote. Yeah, well, I don't think the farm system's a disaster. I think they have a quality major league players. The problem is they don't have

the Soto coming through, the Acuna coming through. They don't have the young guys coming through. You're asking me this coming right off of the Alec Baum and Spencer Howard Arizona Fall League show, so if you could please step off on the whole

I should have known my audience here. Yeah I mean come on we're right here but yeah for him to be like oh man like obviously the team's in better shape like the team was winning 65 games anyone could have gotten

them to be in better shape than they were with 65 games the point is they're not nearly far enough along like it's such an asset it's to say that to us to the fan base to the media to say it that way to phrase it that way is basically saying you're all dumb like we know

we're not idiots John we know that it's better than a 66 win team that doesn't mean that enough has been done or that it's close to good enough. Well, and also, like, bringing up that they had a 17.3 wins by replacement this year in their acquisitions this offseason. Like, yeah, you have Bryce Harper and JT Real. Yeah, it's like, obviously. Jack, have you ever heard of this website called baseballreference.com? Yeah, I can't believe you went toreference in the middle of a press conference

Jesus dude I feel like Middleton You know they I feel like the PR people went to him and like Were trying to repair him he was like no He's like no no no yo It was like a clear out session in basketball He's like get out of my way I got this

I got it Honestly like if the PR staff Were responsible for prepping him it was like a clear out session in basketball. He's like, get out of my way. I got this. I got it. Honestly, like if the PR staff were responsible for prepping him, they should fire the entire PR staff. Obviously, I agree with you. I think the PR staff was just like hiding in a closet and saying, oh God, I can't believe. And that's so frustrating too because this guy's a billionaire.

He's a billionaire. And I understand you get to that level of life, that level of success that you think you know better, that you think you don't need help and stuff but PR you hire PR people literally for this specific situation the smartest people the best leaders and and I think this kind of dovetails into what we're talking about with Middleton wanting to control everything the smartest leaders in this situation instead of saying I, I got this, they go to their PR staff and say, tell me everything I need to know. Tell me exactly what I should do. How's the best way to handle this?

How do I answer? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. These eight questions that I know 100% will be asked to me. It was, it was unbelievable. That's why McPhail, if we don't, we don't question. He's like, yep, news was coming. Ready for it. Good to go.

It felt like there was not a single question that John Middleton was asked that he was like ready for it's crazy man kobe middleton oh god we're out well the tears that's good yes but that's what it was like i mean that it was like i think here's the thing is that i think his heart was in the right place like i want to send a message that this is on me and don't make this about the two guys next to me like i'm the guy yeah you shouldn't have them sitting next to him then if he was going to do that jack like that i mean crazy don't have them sitting next to them and just talk and don't have them right there to like have these questions asked in front of them make these awkward things

and and clintac basically like trying to say he wanted capler without throwing under the bus right next to me it was crazy yeah it felt like it felt like he was trying to be steinbrenner and like he was he was so cocky it was like he was so like do you know who i am like i'm first off i don't want the phillies run like a normal business i want like of course it's a very different business this is not a normal business it's a professional sports team it is so different yeah i know that's what i don't get like he's he's acting like this is a he's a ceo like sure your title is ceo but you're an owner like you're not this is not a business you're not like I just don't

get like it's just a manager I know that sounds crazy but like for for a 57 minute press conference to explain why you fired Gabe Kapler it's like you could have said it wasn't good enough it could have just been it should have been 15 minute press conference press conference. It's just a manager. It's just a manager. And another thing that I thought was just insane was they're talking about that McPhail in the if we don't, we don't thing was like, yeah, you would have been mad at me if we gave up the prospects and got the bullpen pieces we need.

It's like, Andy, again, buddy, all we're saying is that you could have given up fringe prospects and helped your team that way. Like Daniel Hudson cost the Nationals a 22nd ranked player in their farm system. You're telling me you couldn't get Daniel Hudson but we're getting Blake Parker? Yeah, and again, also, step further,

you also could have signed Dallas Keuchel too, which I'm surprised wasn't asked about directly, but there were... Well, the luxury tax question was that, I think. Yeah, essentially. You're right it probably was but still and again look i didn't love that answer either i know that that it's you know smart you have to be careful about the luxury tax and whatnot but for him to just say

hey we're not going over it for the second wild card like point blank like i didn't love that answer it doesn't make me feel like he'll go way over it if he needs to at any point well he did say that he He said, oh, spend. I know. I know. I know. I know. I'm just saying.

I didn't love it. Yeah, I'm glad it was addressed, though. I'm glad that it had to be brought up. Again, that's the thing is there were so many things yesterday that had to be brought up. That's the problem. There were so many questions, so many answers that are needed. And again, because of 11-minute answers about being a CEO, we didn't get everything we needed,

and they certainly didn't answer things the way that we wanted them to in all cases. But I do think the reporters did a good job of addressing those issues. To your point before, though, I mean, the fact that Philly's PR staff allowed it to go on for 56 minutes is unfreaking believable. Like, what are you doing? Derek Boyko would have had a heart attack if he were in charge of PR in

that moment. Like he would have shut it down 20 minutes earlier, at least. I mean, like, like that's my point. Like, why don't you,

it's so frustrating that the whole thing from start to finish, from the way it was set up with all three of those guys there, from the, what they said, from the way they acted, to how long it went on, to the content of their answers. It was a disaster top to bottom, ruck to left, right to left, all of it. It was

just a complete and total miss in what was probably the most important press conference for the team in, I don't know, forever? Like a really long time? Yeah, and I guess my biggest frustration in leaving it was that

I just don't know what the plan is here. I don't think the owner is on the front. I don't think the owner is on the same page with his baseball guys, which is obvious. But whenever Hinckley talked, it was like, oh, I see the vision here. Like, I see where this is going. With the Phillies, I don't know what the vision is. I don't know where they plan on going from here.

And I honestly, it's almost like they have to spend their way out of it. Not almost. Like, there's nothing. That is it. Right now, at least. Especially with Harper. Like, we always talk about with Harper entering age 27. Romito in his prime.

Like, the core of the team they have now, the clear need to compete, and I'm sure Klintak and McPhail probably feeling it more than they were at the trade deadline last time. I mean, this team doesn't have a choice. If they want to compete now, the only way they could do it is to go out and spend. It is. You open the window by trading your best prospect for JT Romito.

They have to spend their way out of it and that's just not the most healthy thing in the world. I'm worried it's either they have to spend their way out of it or kind of do a reset and they're not going to do a reset. They're not going to trade off

pieces to kind of rebuild. So they have to go more in and just keep spending money and keep spending money if they want to be competitive because if they don't, they're just going to turn into the Flyers. They're going to turn into the Sixers, the pre-processed Sixers.

You're going to have to act like the big boy here, John. That's the only way out of this. My hope is that they can spend the money, bring in a Garrettt make remake that pitching staff have us good you know have all the money up there in the top players and then figure out the draft just figure out the draft get a new scott director in here and the dodgers the dodgers haven't picked in the top 10 since god knows when but they're still able to draft cody

bellinger still able to draft gavin lux dust, still able to draft Gavin Lux, Dustin May. All these guys they were able to bring up out of nowhere, they're able to compete while also being able to facilitate that with nailing the draft. So there is a way out of this, but where the Phillies are at right now is that they just have to spend their way out of it. And that is just generally not a good way to build a franchise.

So it's definitely terrifying where we're at. Yeah. Historically, it's a horrendous way to build a franchise. I mean, I think the Marlins... They don't have a choice. I agree. But the Marlins in 97, really the only example you can think of of a team built through free agency, built through moves like that,

that actually went on to win the World Series. I'm sure there might be another example or two. The Yankees always put themselves over the top. Sure. built through moves like that that actually went on to win the World Series. I'm sure there might be another example or two. The Yankees always put themselves over the top. Sure, but they still had their core four that they brought those guys up and they made such a difference and they still were able to, you know, like they had guys, you know. But I agree with you. You know, look, the Yankees are always the exception to the rule

when it comes to certainly when Steinbrenner was around. Well, good thing we got Steinbrenner south here, so we're all good. I wish he was Steinbrenner, man. Like that's the thing is he's like way more Snyder than Steinbrenner was around. Well, good thing we got Steinbrenner south here, so we're all good. I wish he was Steinbrenner, man. That's the thing. He's way more Snyder than... I had five different people text me, oh, no, he's Daniel Snyder yesterday. And then I had another person text me,

I can't wait to root for whatever team hires Gabe Kapler. It was that type of reaction. It was unbelievable. It was sadness and sorrow after this thing. But to your point, look, they have to to spend, hiring a scouting director who is good is maybe the most important decision this offseason now at this point, like more important than the manager, I think. But also, I do think hiring the right manager and having someone who can come in, if you're

going to go out and spend and add to this team, a good manager who's the right manager can make a difference now you know right now and and kind of turning around the on the field product I think the real big issue and look they could spend enough and and we'll you know Garrett Cole if they go out and get someone like Garrett Cole and supplement and get bullpen pieces and all that like they can make the playoffs next year that's not crazy there's enough talent here now there's enough talent out there if they're willing to spend if they're willing to willing to bring in the right manager and all that, where they could compete for the playoffs next year.

It's just the long-term health of this organization. Ultimately, the real thing that we want to be a powerhouse year after year after year, to be a perennial World Series candidate year after year after year, that's the part that is far more concerning. Yeah, it's concerning because I don't trust the guys that are in that front office right now. And that's the most important thing. And not just not trusting the front office,

we don't trust the owner right now, which is, and again, I agree with you. I think ultimately on a basic level, John Middleton does want to win and his heart is in the right place. Right now, he clearly has no effing idea how to do that. And it's a major worry. I mean, that's an even bigger worry than the front office because ultimately if you think about it that way it's like well first of all he's shown that he's willing to keep guys here that he

doesn't trust that he doesn't isn't willing to to put the the important decisions in their hands and let them make them that's number one so first of all why would you believe anyone would come here who who wants to make their own decisions and doesn't want to have an owner breathing down their neck? And then two, the fact that he would find the right people who would want to come in

and be allowed to make their decisions and all that, it's just like a whole, like when it's from the top down, the dysfunction, the inability to have a plan to do things the right way and all that, when it's from the top down, it's as concerning as

it gets it is but can i just get one i have one positive thing that i that i did take away from the press conference is it the analytics thing it's the analytics me too like me too i'm glad i'm glad that he came out that was a little weird it was very weird he was kind of a d about it he's kind of like yo this is me i did this but like i agree with you one of our fears as we have you know anyone who listened to the show knows one of our fears coming in was that this whole experience would sour the the organization on analytics it was good to hear that wasn't the case yeah yeah because that's that's a major part of death now of fear what yeah and you. Yeah, and you could see the guy that we saw on the stage yesterday

just pulling a complete 180 and wanting to get away from analytics. It was good that he did recognize that, hey, all the smart teams are doing it. Again, the analytics were not the problem with the Phillies this year. It was their ability to, the analytics were not the problem with the Phillies this year. It was their ability to implement the analytics.

They have enough people there. They have a really big analytics department. They just need to figure out how to implement them correctly. So it was really good to hear Middleton say that and kind of double down that, hey, this is the right way to go.

And I do think that he talks to to smart teams and he trusts smart teams like i here's here's where i don't i just don't buy i don't buy the daniel snyder thing i really don't i i maybe just me living in denial and my blind high hopes for the phillies but like i think daniel snyder is just not looking at how the rest of the league works and i think he's. And I think he's just a moron. I think John Middleton, he studies the league. The analytics answer was smart. And it was clear that he's thought about this a lot.

He's obviously very thorough. He's a very deep thinker. I feel like he's looking under every stone to make the correct decision. The fact that he looked under every stone and Matt Klintak is still here is a mild concern. But I don't think he's as moronic as Daniel Snyder. I think he's smart. I know this sounds crazy, James. Just being honest, I still trust him.

I trust John Middleton. I know. I'm sorry. I still trust him. Well, John Middleton. I know. I'm sorry. I still trust him. Well, look, I hope you're right. I mean, I can't say the same, but I hope you're right. I mean, I think in my gut, he was trying to just set a tone yesterday

that he was trying to deflect from his baseball people and put it on himself. And he has now definitely made himself the absolute target of Billy's fans. All season it had been Gabe, Klentak, McPhail, whatever. Then as the offseason started, it started to turn towards Middleton. Yesterday, the bullseye is absolutely on John Middleton. I had people say, I feel bad for Klintak yesterday, which is, I mean,

we didn't think we could get to that point. People were saying, I feel bad for this guy. It's crazy. I don't, but... I don't either. I'm just saying like that was, you're right. I'm saying that you, I think you're right. Middleton has moved the bullseye onto himself

for better or worse. For better or worse. This is all coming down to John Middleton. And I think I trust him that he is smart. I don't know how forward-thinking he is, but he wants

people in there that are forward-thinking, and he wants the Phillies to get back to greatness. I don't think he wants to be as involved in everything that he already is. I still trust the guy. I think he's wants to be as involved in everything that he already is. I still trust the guy. I think he's going to be okay.

And I like that he's going to spend money. I like he's going to have a luxury tax. I like that he is all in on analytics. I still trust him. I'm saying it. I still trust John Middleton. All right. He's more like Jay Middleton to me.

He's going from Jack to John to just Jay. Jay period Middleton. That right. He's more like Jay Middleton to me. He's going from Jack to John to just Jay. Jay period Middleton. That's where I'm at with Jay. It was crazy how he was fiery yesterday. That's what I mean. The analytics thing, he was, again, a bit of a D about it. Yeah, I guess he just wanted to set a tone. It was a crazy

press conference yeah the fact that they took shots at at the fans again which is just like guys stop stop doing that just stop like what what what business is it smart to pay you know to to to rip your patrons in in no business is this a smart thing to do. Like, it's just insane to me. He's talking about business and being a CEO. Would you go to your cigar, people who buy your cigars and be like, wow, can't believe you smoke cigars. Oh, cigars are for losers.

Why would you smoke cigars? You guys are so dumb smoking cigars. I mean, you wouldn't do that. It's so weird. I know. I know. It was a weird day. It was a weird day.

I didn't feel great as a Phillies fan after that. I'm not saying that I feel great. I just cannot believe that this team could be on the level of a Redskins bad or that level of this. Look, I think Snyder is probably too far. I get it. And the fact that Bruce Allen is still in charge there is among the most unbelievable things in all of sports.

But I agree. It's probably not quite Snyder, but he's certainly more in that direction than in a great owner direction right now. And I think that's the worry. And I agree with you. I don't think that, look, he hasn't been doing this for that long. Jeffrey Lurie got better at it as he went. Owners can get better.

It's not something where, you know, if you can learn and adapt and grow, you can become a better owner than you used to be. So I'm not saying this is where the Redskins forever, but I do think that yesterday was not a positive day for the Phillies,

especially when you think about the people in charge. I think that's the best way to put it. No. It didn't instill faith in lifelong Phillies fans that they're going to figure this out. Their only way to figure this out is spend money and figure out how to develop some players

and be able to help out the major league roster that you're already going to be investing a crap ton of money into. They're going to have to invest $230 plus million in Garrett Cole to make their bidding staff decent. Maybe Cole Hamels,

bring him back on a one or two year deal for like $20 million or whatever. There's a lot of moves. A whole bullpen. You need a whole bullpen. There's a lot to do. Right. So, man, they've got a lot of moves. A whole bullpen. You need a whole bullpen. There's a lot to do. Right. So, man, they've got a lot of work to do.

And yesterday did not make me feel great about the future of the team. But I just, in my heart, I don't think that they're the level of dysfunction of some of the worst dysfunctional teams. And if they are, that's disappointing. Putting it lightly. That's just like... You know what's so funny is that for years we've been clamoring for the big money owner and

give us an owner with stones and one that is brash and whatever and now we got him and everyone's like no! Like immediate no! I, immediate, no! I know, I know, but come on. Come on, John. Please, please, please know what you're doing, honestly.

Like, it's not getting to the point of pleading. Like, John, please, for the love of God, know what you're doing. Yeah, or at least know what you don't know. And hire Heimblum. Blum Yeah well maybe next offseason Let's hope no one else hires him which I'm sure Yeah we really need someone to not Hire Chaim we need Chaim to not

Get hired don't hire him he's terrible Yeah doesn't know what he's doing Alright Fruity anything else It was all who was it Neander, Eric Neander? Yes. Yeah. And David Stearns, isn't he there?

I think it's David Stearns. No, David Stearns is the Milwaukee Brewers. Yeah. Oh, he moved over. Okay, so he's with the Brewers. Yeah, then maybe Neander. Either way. No, it's Eric Neander.

So he stinks. Neander's amazing. He did it all himself. Yeah, hire him. Yeah, sure. Don't touch Iowa. He did it all himself. Yeah, hire him. Yeah, sure. Don't touch either. All right, Fritzy. Any final thoughts or last thoughts about this press conference

that I hope to never think about again as long as I live? Any final thoughts? Oh, how about this final thought? We'll end it on a positive note. Ten years ago today was get me to the plate, boys. Oh, Ryan. I love it. That's strong.

So just, you know, I can't believe it's been 10 years. I too will end. Yeah, sadly. John, please. Yeah. Please figure this out. Are you listening? I can't take the Nationals about to make the World Series.

I know. I know. Well, yeah. And how about Anibal Sanchez like you listening? I can't take the Nationals about to make the World Series. I know. I know. Well, yeah. And how about Anibal Sanchez throwing one hitters and crap? It's like, what? What is happening? What world am I living in right now? Oh, thank God he didn't throw no hitter.

I want Doc to be the last to hit. I couldn't have done it either. I couldn't have done that. I couldn't have survived Anibal Sanchez throwing a playoff no hitter. It's too much for my fragile soul to handle right now, Jack, with what's going on with my team here. All right. Wow, Jake. That's a shot.

Well, sometimes you got to take a shot. All right. I have two final thoughts. One positive and one positively hilarious. Let's start with the positively hilarious. Curt Schilling. Are you serious, dude? Bob Nightingale has to stop doing favors for everyone.

Bob Nightingale has to stop getting texts from people being like, sure, I'll tweet it out. Kurt Schilling's interested. I like there are eight trillion people who will be hired before Kurt Schilling is hired for the Philadelphia Phillies managerial job. Jack, me and you have a significantly better chance of getting that job than Curt Schilling. It's just so laughable. Curt, shut up and go home. Okay.

And I, if I texted Bob Nightingale and said, Bob, put this out for me. Jack Fritz also interested in the pitching. He would do it in a second. You think he'd do it? Yeah.

No question. He'll do it for anybody. I mean, I think you just text him and you're good. And now positive, speaking of he better be future Philly Garrett Cole, I saw this stat and I had to bring it up because it is just wild and

it should get everyone excited for the hope that we get Garrett Cole and to push the Phillies to get Garrett Cole. In the third inning of game five, of course, another outstanding Garrett Cole start. We know the man can pitch in the playoffs as well. This is from ESPN Stats and InfoJack. Get ready for this. I hope you're ready for this stat.

In the third inning in Game 5, Garrett Cole didn't record a strikeout. Why is that significant? Cole had recorded at least one strikeout in 73 consecutive innings, dating back to August 1st, the longest streak in the expansion era by 33 innings, Jack. Is that good? 73 innings? Straight?

Yeah. And he has, what, like a, he has like a one, two, two, two ERA since like May? Bring him here. Honestly, if John Middleton, who, you know, we just talked about what a disaster he publicly made of himself. If he wants one way to swing things immediately, pay a bunch of money for Garrett Cole. Because people will get excited. Yeah, and it's not like

I've seen a lot of plans like, oh, we'll assign Zach Wheeler and we'll sign Cole Hamels. It's like if Zach Wheeler comes here, he won't automatically figure it out. The Phillies have not shown the ability to do that. Enough. Just sign the big guy and then The Phillies have not shown the ability to do that. Like, enough, okay?

Just sign the big guy and then facilitate down from there. Like, adding a Wheeler, Miley, Hamels, and thinking that's going to provide as much value as what Garrett Cole brings is insanity to me. So, yes, Garrett Cole is all that matters. Steven Strasburg matters a lot. And Madison Baumgartner doesn't matter

that much. That's all I've got to say. That's my tears. No, it's Cole, Strasburg, everyone else. I totally agree. They have to get that guy. I mean, that guy makes... It's the one kind of guy they can get who can make such a drastic impact immediately.

And look, I do agree with you on a positive side that John Middleton does want to win. He does want to make the playoffs desperately. I'm sure he doesn't want to ever go through this specific type of scenario again where he is the ire of his fans. So let's hope they do what they need to do, Jack. Yeah, listen. James, I can't do it. I can't go full negative.

I know you can. It's impossible for you. I was depressed yesterday, but I still trust you. I think there's Jack still in there, honestly. I think Jack is still somewhere in there. Yeah, high hopes, brother. I appreciate it. For me, he's just Jay.

Oh, wow. That's sad. Jay Middle. Does he actually go by his middle name? Yeah, I mean, he's heading there, man. He's heading there. Yeah, not good. All right, well, Frenzy, you know, that's all I got to say.

It's been real. Such a bad press conference. It's just, let's put it this way. Things can only go up from here this offseason, Jack. I can't get any worse than that was. All right, well, we got... Actually, yeah. I mean, it could.

Let's hope. I mean, Mike Sochi gets hired in a week and then it's like oh it got worse wow yeah i think it works but also by the way um did you notice when he basically admitted that joe madden doesn't want to come here oh yeah when he's like oh well you know we're gonna talk to everybody they might not want to come here though we can't control that i was like really that's great and again to the point we made who the hell would want to come here after what they said like who would want to come to a spot where a manager just got fired for front office's problems and then the and then the owner says well i'm always gonna blame the manager you know i wouldn't yeah you're you know you know the mets you know the other teams competing for these high profile the cups the padres like those

teams are going to get better options. And they're sending that clip to them and saying, you really want to go to this guy? Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Yeah. Not great. Not great.

So let's hope it goes up from here. How about that? Yes. All right. Either way, we'll be back next week. He's Fritz himself, so we'll talk to you later all-star closer kenley jansen we have a question what's the best podcast of all time baseball isn't boring baby i'm rob bradford and every single day i'm sitting down with the biggest names to show you this great game is the greatest game. It's my podcast. It's my passion.

It's a cause I started more than two years ago. It is now the most prolific national daily baseball pod there is. Another fact. So jump aboard the B.I.B. Express. Follow and listen to Baseball Isn't Boring presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.