High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Who's Worse Situationally: Jack's WiFi or The Phillies?

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

James Seltzer and Jack Fritz react to yet another frustrating weekend of Phillies baseball and give their thoughts on alumni weekend. Presented by Miller Lite.To purchase Ring The Bell by Jack Fritz and Kevin Reavy go to RingTheBellBook.com

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The crowd is singing, hey, ho. I feel a little less alone. Oh, is another edition of the podcast, sponsored by Miller Light, official partner of the Philadelphia Phillies. Tastes like Miller Time, Philadelphia is Celebrate Responsibly. Jack, I don't know that I ever remember a harder season with the yo's in terms of, like, normally, you know, it's a good yo, it's a bad, yo. Like, I just, it's bad now. Like, more bad than good. Did they, you know, walk it off yesterday to salvage the series?

but it's just it's such a weird time for this team. It's been a weird season. It's a weird moment. Yeah, I was explaining to someone down here at the beach. My cousin-in-law, Carly, who is a big podcast listener. And, you know, it's recently gotten into the Phil's like the last three years, like very, very deep, you know, diehard Phil's fan. And I was like, Carly, you know, this is one of those seasons that's going to put some hair in your chest. as a Phillies. That is what it is. It's, it's been up and down some real downs. I mean,

this Blue Jay series, you could make the case if they had Rob Thompson as the manager and almost anyone else at third base that that is a series sweep because it should have been a serious sweep. And it wasn't. It wasn't. And thankfully, they were able to sneak one out yesterday because I tell you what, it would have been meltdown city. I mean, Oh, it would have been a dude. We were all ready to lose it. Lose it. Their inability to play baseball the right way

or watching them try to play baseball the right way like actively hurts my baseball soul. It really like they are, they are at playing baseball. And every time they win, it feels like extra things is by act of them. Yeah. Yeah.

Holy. It's crazy. And like yesterday, Bob Vitrone, not a great stat in and of itself, but not great for us. But Louisa Rise, 945 games with other teams had gone 0 for six once in his career. He's got like six games with the Phillies. He's already got an 0 for six. We're infecting Luis Rice even, Jack. Yes, yes, they are infecting Louise Rise.

O for six for him is crazy. I feel like he's hit a ton of balls like to the warning track, which is. infuriating in and of itself. But yeah, it's him going over six just feel like a, like a disaster, given what he is. And even that ball that he had, that stubby, I could not believe that Garrett Stubbs. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

I mean, it was a perfect throw and all that, but you got to be kidding me. It was short. I get it. But also, like, he was backtracking, you know. Yeah. And he also was like, like, it looked weird even running. He was like running like real wide. It just,

it was so strange. It was a strange moment. And it was, and look, arise also, like I thought Friday night was like the seventh inning. And he comes up with the bases loaded. And it was Chase Sutley night.

And he's the new second base. And I was like, oh my God, this is meant to me. This is perfect. This is what's going to happen. And, you know,

got out in that spot too. It just felt like a weekend full of like moments where you were expecting something good to happen. And instead they didn't happen. And then the Phillies, give it up after that. You know, it was, it was an incredibly frustrating series. And even the win yesterday was incredibly frustrating.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Kirkering, I mean, that was a disaster. I mean, Don Mattingly, God forbid you take a guy out in the middle of the inning when he clearly doesn't have it. Like, what a crazy thought. I mean, Mattingley has done such a horrendous job with the bullpen. And again, we all get it. I mean, he doesn't have a lot to work with.

And even Killian this weekend, you know, we'll get that, that's a bummer. It's probably going to be out for a while there, too. But, you know, even without a lot to work with, it's just the moment. in it like it feels like he's constantly making the wrong decisions to me. I totally agree. Again, like the qualifier is who is he supposed to go to? But at the same time, at the same time, you have Brooks Raley who has the two something ERA and you're pitching him in the six down two.

And then you're giving out that forces you to go Alvarado when it's all of a sudden a four two ball game. Brooks Rale has to pitch, pitch in extras yesterday, which you shouldn't have had to have been in because you have him warmed up. You have him warmed up for the lefty. You did it. You had it in the right spot. He was ready to go.

They had J.T. Slowly walk to the mound. Here is an obvious decision of pulling him and getting one of your guys in there. And he just sticks with Kirkcoring. The faith that he has in Kirkcoring and Alvarado are going to come back to bite this team. First off, Alvarado will show fits and spurts of, being the old Avarado, but he's just someone that you cannot trust.

And I mean, Kirkring, we have to know by now is someone that they, that they cannot trust. Now, the issue is there's no one really else out there. I mean, Killian, Killian's going to be done for the year. There's, there's no way to. Yeah. I mean, we know how bad obliques are for hitters and pitchers with the twisting and that, you know, all that. And it seemed like a pretty semi-severe one, too.

So, well, I, I've rewatched it this morning. And you could tell the pitch before it happened. He was like, oh, no. And then he threw the last pitch like 90 miles an hour. And he like just limped off the mound. So that's a really bad scene. So, you know, I always have frustrations with a lot of different, like, like all different phases of the team. I have frustration with Maddingley.

I thought that, I think that he's just been atrocious after the first six weeks of the season. And, you know, can Alex Cora just, you know, wrap it up with the family? and get on up here. We've got some things to accomplish. I actually, I would probably break back Thompson for the last two months of the year. They figured it out. They figured out the,

they got off to the bad start, and now they, you know, ready to ship a little bit, but we might need Topper back here for the stretch run. And I'm incredibly frustrated with Dave Dombrowski. That we're, we're short after a deadline. And the Killian thing is unfortunate.

Even with Killian, it's not, He is a project that you think has interesting traits that could turn into a back end option. The control is what made him worth getting. It's not for this year. It's the fact that he's here for five years theoretically. That's why you got it. So you're an arm short there.

You are. And you are already short. You're already short. You're hanging on by a thread with the starting staff praying that none of them get hurt because if they get hurt. And that's with Nola pitching well. Like, Nola's been good for a for, for, a couple months now. You know, six weeks, whatever it is, you know?

You survive the painter thing. It doesn't look like he's going to miss any time, which is, which is great. And then I'm just frustrated with him because he didn't rectify the Alec Bohm situation. And that dude is done here. Like he is done here. When this, when the Phillies win the World Series here and you're putting together the, all the compilation of bad takes and Alec Bowman's World Series MVP, you can re-rack this if you want.

I don't care. That dude is done here. And the fact that they keep just trotting him out there because he was their third overall pick and because he is someone who is technically a homegrown player that turned out to be a competent major leaguer, which I think is the only reason he's still here so they can prop up. Well, we're not that bad at this. Look at Alec Bohm. And Bryce Zott has definitely worked his way into the mix of being one of their success stories. No doubt. No doubt.

Very, very good since June 1. get more into him as we as we go on here but not just pulling the plug on this thing and and and this is shaping out to be the worst case scenario james where he is just going into the tank he's just going into the tank he had the rbi yesterday great he had a good scoop what was that he had a big intentional walk jack come on thank you john schnider crazy like honestly it might be in this like Since 2022, it might, like outside of Robert Suarez over a hater and we know why that happened, it might be the single worst managerial decision we've seen against the Phillies. Like, it is an unreal decision to walk him out there.

Do you, you know last podcast when you're talking about how you wish managers would just manage with their gut? It was one of those things where you just got to use your gut here and say, you got to understand that Derek Hill is on a bit of a heater when it comes to, you know, having big moments. And Alec Bohm, absolutely going through it. So, yeah, it's incredibly frustrating. All right. I want to get to more specifics from the weekend.

And look, I do, there was some good this weekend in that, you know, I thought Chase's speech was all time great. Like, I was really blown away. It's, I think the longest he's talked, the most he's talked. And I want to get to that alumni weekend. Thank God they didn't get swept and blow it in front of. of all the greats yesterday. I've seen all those people in the field.

I'm like, you're going to freaking blow this lead, the whole thing. Super frustrating. All right. So we're going to get to all that in a sec. But first, it is Monday,

August 10th. We are three days away. Thursday. August 13th, Lasgala fire in the northeast. We're going to be there for the Thursday night game, the field of dreams games, the Phillies and Twins in Iowa,

playing with the cornfields. And the whole thing will be doing baseball movie trivia to win Philly's ticket. It's going to be an awesome, awesome event. It's also my 15th wedding anniversary with Emily. So I can, you know, I could celebrate with everyone else instead of her, so that'll be fun. But it's going to be awesome. Seriously, coming out, we're going to have such a great time. And like, what are you neat thing, Jack? It's a newer thing this Field of Dreams game. And the old uni's look awesome. I just think as, as frustrated as we are right now, seeing the Phil's play in that, that, you know, situation is going to be neat.

Yeah, I mean, they've been doing a lot of these kind of national things. Yeah. Showcase events. I think they're probably the sickest jerseys I've seen them wear. I think they're unbelievable. It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah.

It was so good to see the phantom first pitches yesterday in honor of Moonland and Grahamers. Which is great. Yeah. Jeff Singer, who could forget one of our guys. I thought that was a neat idea. I thought that was a cool thing for this. So for those who don't know what Jack's talking about, like they brought back four players who were technically on the Phillies roster,

but never actually got into a game. And they all throughout the first pitch. I think that's a really cool idea, personally. Yeah, I guess my thing is, is that I do wish I could have, you know, you know how when they call the Hall of Famers? Oh, you should have been there. Is this what you're saying that you never picked in the,

okay. No, no, no, no. This is what I'm saying. When they call Hall of Famers, sometimes they record the calls. and put it out and say, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. I just wish that there was a recording of, like, Will Toffee and of when they called him. And he's like, me?

When I was a Philly? No, I'm pretty sure he has a pennant ring. They invited everyone else back, you know? Like, I, I, I, I, Bobby Rossman has a, has a, has a, has a world. I love it. Got to love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're random guys of the 22 fills.

I think, uh, I think Muzziotti has. one, Simone Musiotti. Oh, yeah, sure. Listen, of course, all those guys. Hey, hey, they all play a small part in helping that team win the National League penned. So you got to respect that.

Right. So well said. All right. Thank you. So coming out with us Thursday night, it's going to be awesome. All right. Let's get to the,

do you want to, let's start with the baseball, and then we'll get to the alumni stuff and Chase. Yeah. So do you want to go game by game or do you want to go specific situations, players? How do you want to attack it? Because it, like, it was. Well, there's enough from each game.

So yeah, that's just why I figured because they were all close. Let's go Friday. Obviously, Friday frustrating because, you know, the Wheeler stuff with the Mound was, you know, the whole kind of adversarial kind of started the weekend off with a, with a kind of, you know, a little anger and a little frustration seeing Wheeler, you know, the FU and all that stuff. It was a weird. What did you make? And then Wheeler, you know, not his best stuff.

No. I think, you know, more disappointing that it felt like they had it at, you know, late the comeback, the last bat basis loaded, had a chance and couldn't capitalize on it. But what did you make of the whole Wheeler Mountain thing, the outing, and the fact that like, you know,

Wheeler went into the All-Star break so strong with those two like lights outings and you, the anger was there. And if he hasn't been bad since the break, but he's not been quite as sharp as heading in where you're at. Yeah, I mean, he has not been,

he had been Chris, man, like him Chris. Both. Yeah, both. At the end of the day, things look fine.

But in watching them, I mean, Wheeler walked four guys on Friday, I believe. So, and he just could not. And Sanchez, the game we went to was at Thursday. It was like, it took him 100 pitches to get through five innings, you know? I know. I know. And with Wheeler, he's just, he's all over the zone.

Like, he's not in the zone. He's, he's, he's just like an inch or more outside of the strikes on pretty consistently. So, you know, I mean, maybe this is a little bit of the, the, fatigue and a little bit of like a dead arm period coming back from the tj or back from tj from the thoracic outlet and and everything else so i think it's kind of just going because it's always t j in these situations yeah i know so i think i think i'm almost chalking this both up with them as this is the dog days of of summer they pitch all the time and i i fully expect that by september they're going to make the mechanical adjustments and and be in the strike zone but certainly right now it's going to

a little bit rocky. Now, again, both of their stuff is so good that it ultimately doesn't matter. Like they will most likely keep you in ball games and give you a chance to win like they did. But it's certainly in one of those periods. I mean, what was that, Nathan Luke's, Lucas dropped the foul off 15 pitches. You never see that. You never see that against Zach Wheeler. So, yeah, I mean, he was not great. It felt like he was stake to the lead and this game should be done. And not as bad as the Lazzardo started in Miami, but he just let them hang around when Wheeler usually steps on a throat. And he did not step on a throat on Friday.

Yeah, I'm with you. And I'm with you. I'm not super concerned about it. I just worry about the both physical and mental workload that these guys have in that when you're Sanchez and Wheeler and you know the bullpen's playing the way they are and you know all inconsistent in the offense is like, I'm sure those guys know when they take the mound, the pressure that's on them every time. And then how important those guys are.

Like it's, you know, when you have to pitch great, when you, there's no margin for error, like it does add to it. So, um, yeah, I just worry about the workload ending in if they keep pitching a lot of innings and all that that, that, you know, to the point we've said, I mean, the only way this team is winning the world series is if those three aces are great. And then you need a lot of other stuff to happen. But like they're, they're going to have to carry them. That's the heart of the team.

It's the best thing that, that we have to count on. So I just worry about. using them up getting to the playoffs than not having any juice left, you know? Well, I mean, that's, and that's been the advantage of the Dodgers have had for the last two seasons is they sign all of these guys and then they basically give them off in the middle of the season

and they bring them back and say, hey, we'll see in October and, and let's go win a World Series. Whereas the Phillies, they have a great starting a rotation, but they also have to ride those guys to get even in the dance. And what's happening recently is they're going shorter and shorter in games. Like Sanchez has been a six inning guy, Wheeler six inning guy, Nola 5, Painter 4, 5. You know, like that Lazzardo's given them good length.

He's leveling up and pitching great at this point. And then you're you're turning it over to a unit of the team. If there's a unit of the team that I trust the least heading into October, it's not the offense. It's a little bit. It's a little bit. I think we can all agree. And I was saying this to Emily, and you and I have talked about this on the pod so many times over the years. And I think 2020, we talked about nonstop.

But I don't think there's anything more demoralizing for the players themselves than a bullpen you can't trust. I mean, we've seen it. Remember in 2020, we always just talked about like looking at Bryce's face or JT's face when these guys would run in. You could like actually see them deflating. You could see them go. And obviously the famous one, the JT with the Jared Hughes running in and all that. But like that felt like an example. of many things that season where it was like these guys like you could tell that they are losing

energy they're losing belief every time that bullpen runs in and it's obviously not as bad as 2020 right now but i do think that can really suck the life out of guys and make it harder for them to keep fighting keep pushing because it's like you almost get a like a what's the point kind of feeling of it sometimes you know sometimes yeah yeah and you just have to you have to fight through that and almost pretend that it doesn't it doesn't get it just do your job and don't worry about it and you can't control it, but it's still, it's hard. They're humans, you know. Well, and, and since what is Kirkering throwing 94?

I mean, he was 94 yesterday. Is he going through a dead arm period too? I, I, I've, I have to use them a lot, you know? I know, I know. And, I mean, the one nice part is, is that they should get Alex McFarland up here. God forbid, you know, we could have our 100 mile an hour throwing, you know, top of leave profit. You should have the day after the trade deadline.

Susie and Dramey, she's been up and here. And that's it. What are we doing? Like, it's so crazy. I think the Iron Pigs lost the game 19-0 two days ago. And he was the only one to have a scoreless in it. He did his job. He did his job as he often does. So it would certainly probably be a little bit of egg on their face if McFarland comes up.

And it is just great. And I think he is eligible because when he got sent down, I guess to stay down. Yeah, yeah. They have to wait a few days. Yeah, I think it's like Sunday maybe or something like that. It's soon, but they have to wait a few days, I think. Yeah, I believe it is today.

So we'll see if he made the trip out to St. Louis. If it's not today, it'll be tomorrow. Oh, it's today. I thought it was, okay, okay. I think it was a 10. I think it's 10. Okay, okay. Drink up, baby.

Fantasy football happy hour is here to get you wins and have some laughs. Matthew Berry here and my podcast, Fantasy Football Happy Hour, has the sleepers busts and starts in a, advice you need to win your league. We're diving into the tape. We're crunching the numbers to bring you sleepers. Bus weekly starts it advice, whether you're defending a title or desperately avoiding last place. I've got you covered every single weekday.

The bar is open. It's fantasy football happy hour with Matthew Berry, wherever you get your podcast. All right. So let's get to Saturday. Well, can we talk about the Friday night debacle and extra? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, exactly. I mean, well, it's just you do all the stuff.

work to get back into the game. You know, Louisa Rise works a 10 pitch of bat. And it is, okay, now we go. Like, we got him.

We got him where we want him. And there he is. Mr. Inevitable. And what do you think you're going to do with a, with a OO fastball in on your hands? And just the, The way he hit it was so embarrassing for someone that is, he's a pretty, he's a tough one. He's a tough watch.

But for someone that is 6'5 to put as like measly of a swing as he could on that baseball, why are you in such a rush to get out? Why is your main priority getting to the plate is how quickly can I get in the dugout and start throwing my equipment and having a little bit of a temper tantrum. Why is that? Why is that? On Friday, by the way,

that video, you know, I did. I'm so mad. It's a tough one, man. He's a tough one. I hate watching him.

I hate it. It's not fun. You know, he takes away our enjoyment on a night to night basis. You know, it's frustrating. And by the way, Friday was they lost in the nine.

They came back. It wasn't extra. It was extra to the next year, yeah, but. felt like every day was extra. Yeah. Totally. No, it did. It did. And again, it felt like with Chase there and like the whole night, it was like it just felt weak. You know what I mean? It felt like a weak showing considering the circumstances.

I would agree. I would agree. And the whole the whole rubber thing was weird. You know, I mean, what did you make of that? I mean, that was a weird thing for the Blue Jays to do, especially with Mattingly and the connection. And it just felt like a strange. So apparently for those who didn't see the, the Jay's bench coach was the one who originally brought up. I guess Schneider had already talked to the umps about it prior. because they had noticed it or something. And then the bench coach was the one who like called it out. And obviously Wheeler was like not psyched about it. Uh, once you make it the whole thing. It was weird is what it was. Especially for not rivals.

You have the team that faces each other twice a year. It was just a strange situation. It felt like when Gerardi pulled the Scherzer after the first. Yes. Yes. What a great call. Remember how mad Scher was? He was furious.

Ely, stripped out on the mound. Yeah. Yeah. He was hot. Yeah. It was. wild. It was unfortunate that that Wheeler didn't just

shove after that. It would have been really awesome if he says, bleep you and then you know, he retires nine straight out or tenor. Yeah, exactly. And again, he was just off all night. But it really does feel like it and it feels the Phillies have gotten there as well.

You know, back to the bone thing. It feels like that we, that it has reached a breaking point. I don't think they're going to DFA them. I would be very surprised that the DFAM. But I also at this point, I mean, it'd be like, you know, I think they should, but you know.

We'll see. I mean, like, do you get crazy and bring up, you know, Felix Reyes or, or Keaton Anthony to man first base for a little bit and send Alec down with some, not send him down because I can't

send him down, but, you know, I can't. Phantom I.L. Or put him on the bench. Or put him on the bench. Or put him on the bench. Or, and by the way, I've dropped it all over the place. How insane is it that like stubby is the pinch runner by the way? It's crazy. Like the thing running in that situation is nonsense.

Like that is such poor roster management managing like all of it. Like what are we doing? He's the best option out of the bench in the in 23 year you're like he's not even the technically the backup catcher but he's not even the backup catcher when Marshawn's healthy. He is like

exactly. Designated pinch runner slash clubhouse DJ. Honestly, it's ass and I it is asinine. It really is. You want to point to Debrowski and be like, dude, what the hell? And then,

and Mattingley, you see him, but it's not more on the Browsky. When you really sit there and think about the management of having three catchers when they're all healthy, it's crazy. It's insane. It's insane.

It's insane. It's not practice. Anyway, go ahead. But no, I mean, like the bone thing, they,

they sat them down on Saturday. They batted, they hit them one. Eighth on Sunday. Eighth. Eighth on Sunday. I mean, finally,

by the way, finally. Finally. Yeah. But what's frustrating is the trade deadline was seven days ago. It's in seven days. They went from, this is our infield. Yeah.

This is our five-hitter. You know, this is our first baseman. Yeah. Like being able to keep that bat in the lineup and Harper going to right field. I mean, it's just what a dream scenario. And his response post-trade deadline has to have been just go into the toilet. it. That has been his, that has been his, that's how he's played. That's how he's played. And then the, the freaking, you know, Saturday where he, where, where do you think you're going? You're going? You're

going to throw the guy out rather than just getting the, just getting the out at first base. I would, what, I know. It's crazy. I know. It's, dude, they are, they are the dumbest baseball team. I think I've ever seen in my life. It's, it's, and it's years. And it's years of this. It's like this group of guys are dumb at baseball. And that's why it's such a, the highs are high. They've had their highs. But they're just a tough watch. They're just a tough watch.

Whether it's the bullpen one night, whether it's the offense one night, whether it's one of the bottom two starters, whether it's the defense, whether it's the base running. Almost every single night, they do something. And now you've got to factor in the manager and whatever decision making he's making.

they are they're a tough one much like alec boehm they are a tough one yeah yeah he is emblematic of the whole team all right before we get to sunday quickly we mentioned him for a second but but you know nola has been better like if you're looking for something where it's you know he's been pretty damn good like 11 starts i think it is with like three runs or less something like that he's been been pretty solid and look good again and so strange they just decide not to score for him ever it feels like But Nola, how real is it to you? Well, and what's a bummer too is, he was probably going to come out of the game anyway,

but he had a knee contusion as well. So again, they were hanging on by a thread with these starters staying healthy because there's not exactly another option. So I think the thing that's kind of happened with Nola is, so I think when he was coming out of his funk, he was keeping the ball down, and that was really, really key for him.

Of course, there was a time where he'd missed a spot by a millimeter and it would get blasted 700 feet, which is I mean, he's got to just be like, are you kidding me? I can't make a little mistake. I know, I know. There's no like grace for him with it. No, no, he's cursed.

No one ever like towels off a nola mistake, it seems like, you know? Never. And if they do, they're furious at themselves. Yes, exactly, yeah. But I think what's happened with him is even when he goes up, it's spotted really well. I think the biggest thing that he is

found in this stretch is I don't know how to I don't know how to quantify it I don't know how to I don't know how to like reveal as to why all of a sudden it happened I just think that all of a sudden his command has come back and he's actually

able to pitch more up in the zone when he wants to not by mistake like by mistake he'll miss and it'll get crushed but with intent and purpose I do think that he is he is spotting way better up in the strike zone.

So when he wants to go up there and with his ability to go up there, it allows him to tunnel his curveball off of that. And people always talk about Nola pitching low in the zone with the fastball. And it's like, I agree with you. Like he should be low in the zone

at the fastball. The problem is, is that he throws that knuckle curve so much that if you're a hitter and the second you see that it's not low in the zone, you're going to say, that's a knuckle curve ball and they can sit on it and smoke it. So why he has to pitch up in the zone is so that he can work the curve ball off of it

and show that, hey, if it's going high, it's not automatically. They don't know what's coming. Yeah. It's not automatically a knuckle curveball. So that's why he has to do it. So I just think it all comes down to both sides of the plays. He's even starting to get a little bit of that two seamer that used to start at a guy. rip cages. He's starting to get that pitch to come back a little bit.

So even some of the losses come back. I mean, he's been like touching 95, which is really, really good. So yeah, like, are we going to sit here and say that I trust them in a postseason start or even trust him in his next start? I think we're still very, very skeptical of that. But there is more and more examples of him writing the ship and being a competent big league pitcher than being someone that we have to talk about DFA. after the season, which Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's good.

I'm happy for Knowles. He's been a great ability. It's huge. You could just be competent for the, you know, moving forward as opposed to, like we said, you know, a $27 million abyss. Also, really cool. He had 2,000 strikeouts and that moment was nice.

Yeah. I, him being one of 94 pitchers all time to have 2,000 strikeouts is hilarious. Is hot, hilarious. Would love to see, like, not to of like the modernish guys is he the worst one

is he to death probably I would think I would think so I don't know I haven't seen the list but yeah I would guess so yeah also pretty jarring watching him versus Scherzer and how that used to be like the thing I mean we'll ever forget it I mean what that was that that was it man

and now Scherzer just thrown slop up there although of course he was showing for a little bit 80 almost I know of course of course yeah thankfully they broke through and and did their thing and but yeah, I am very, I would say I'm encouraged. I don't want to jump off the deep end because I know it can come back to bite me. But I am, I'm happy with where they're at with Aaron Nola.

And I don't totally dread the days that he takes them out. All right, Sunday and then we'll get to the chase stuff and all that. But look, we've talked a bit about Sunday. I think it was more frustrating than, than positive was like, thank God they won more than, like, yay they won because, you know, the blowing the, lead the whole thing. We've talked a lot about Kirkering and Mattingly. Anything else from that game that's exactly. I mean, Zeus has been

great. We don't need to go too deep into that. But where you at? Yeah, I mean, I was going to mention Hey, Zeus. I mean, he's just been so money. He's been their best pitcher for like three weeks. Stuff wise, he has the best stuff of the starters. He's

awesome. And I thought we did yesterday. He lost it a little bit in the fifth, which was annoying. But I think that, you know, for the most part yesterday, he was efficient and he got some quick outs. I will say it's turning into one of my big pet peeves because I feel like it's, again, once a game or once or twice a week. Like, pitchers just can't throw out of bases anymore. I don't get it.

Like, why? Throw the ball a second base. First base is mostly fine, mostly fine, because they do it more often. Just quit put in some extra work and make sure that you can. and turn a double play when the ball is hit to you. I feel like I haven't seen them turn a double play with the ball hit back to the pitcher. Years.

It feels like forever. It feels like that it's a routine play. You have to change your arm angle a little bit because, but can we be athletic? And then the other thing is just the the refusal to back up bases. what happened to the game that I loved? I'm sorry that you allow to base hit

and you allow to run. Go back up the bag, okay? I mean, there was a moment yesterday where Zeus didn't come, then it was late to cover home, and I forget he was on third, I think it was straw, and he was about to go and make a B-line for home

because no one was there covering. Rarely do I do the, the get off my lawn thing with the game. I know. But pitchers, pitchers inability to throw to bases or backup bases drives me up a wall. Drives me up a wall. Throwing to bases is just putting in the work.

It's just putting in the work. And backing up is doing your job. I mean, the backing up is even more infuriating. Like I agree that throwing is infuriating too, but at least you have to throw a baseball. Backing up is just running somewhere. Like,

what are we talking about here? I know. I know. I got to check your ego at the door. Check your ego. That's what we got to do. If you didn't like the pitch you made, go to your job. Yeah, I'm with you.

All right. But Zeus has been great. Zeus has been really, really good. And then the Kirkcoring thing was a disaster. We know that. Extra innings infuriating situational baseball per usual. Boom, another big spot that he was not able to come through in. Yeah, the pop out was brutal, brutal.

Brutal. John Schneider walking him was brutal. And once again, Derrick Hill. How many wins is Derrickville? And he wins is Derek Heldon worth for this team? I mean, all right. So, World Series on the line,

bottom of the ninth, probably top of the ninth of the mega, they probably won't be on. But, and you can have any Philly at the plate, how far down the list before you get to Derek Hill? Because I don't think it's that far. You know,

like I think you want Harper at the plate, you want Chorber, you want maybe, you want a rise and maybe like, Stott? Is there anyone else you're taking over him in that spot? This year, JT. Maybe.

Maybe not over him, but Jay, C's in the mix. I'm just talking over here. Point being that Derek Gill, a guy who's brought as a bench guy has played more, but like clutch-wise, like, I trust him more than the vast majority of the roster, which is great. Yeah, yeah. Still waiting for Trey's first picket as a. Yeah, good luck. Yeah.

One of these years. I do think I do, I do think I can count on one hand. Trey's, Trays. Oh, yeah. He had a couple homers in that Brave series. I'd be like that was it. He had a home run. and yeah, I mean,

maybe the aster is early in it. I mean, not the aster is the diamondbacks early. And that was a bad. Yeah, Diamondbacks hit early and then he went to the tank. He got to walk off against the Giants in August of 23, which was,

you know, the magical moment after the, after the ovations. But I, he's had a couple this year of, you know, two outs, runner on,

runner in scoring position that he has come through. I believe it. Yeah, I feel like he gets a lot more of the five nothing solo shots, though. sometimes sometimes but the big moments I believe we're still about five

yeah I agree big moments a guy who came through in many big moments including maybe the greatest defensive player the history of the franchise in terms of moment

and meaning and all that I thought this weekend for me the highlight of the whole weekend was Chase and I you know we love Chase he's you know one of the city's favorite players ever in our lifetime. He's a lot of people's favorite Philly. He's my favorite Philly.

But I wasn't expecting much from him in the speech. He's not a, he's, he's your favorite Philly. Yeah, well, so Schmidt was growing up and then Chase of that era. So it's like those two in my lifetime or my two things. Interesting. Interesting. I don't think I ever knew he's your favorite player. I was new. You love Chase. I love Chase. My favorite to that whole crew, the whole team. I just loved him. You know, I then and I think a lot of people did because of because of the way he played the way he went about his business we know that and that's what i thought jack i so i was not expecting a great speech i was expecting him to go up and say a few things and get down he talked for like 20 something minutes which is unbelievable and

i was fine with it i know i'm sure players are a little annoyed but like i think the people who went to that game went there to see chase so like take your time pal the ring delay made it annoying but but jack i was i was blown away i thought he was eloquent and interesting and funny and i thought particularly him time. I feel like whenever like the true like most beloved athletes of our lifetime in the city, the Kelsey's, the the BGs, the, the chases, like those type of guys have universal approval. I feel like whenever they talk about playing here and about us as fans,

it's like exactly correct. Like they get it. They understand us what we want. What you have to do here. And they talk about it so easily. Like it's such an obvious thing. And I don't get why more people can't understand it. But I thought Chase,

particularly talking about what it means to play here, what it meant to him to play here, and what it is to be a part of this, you know, sports ecosystem. I just thought, I thought it was awesome. Like I was so happy and so blown away.

Yeah. And it was one of those. It's hard not to well up. I mean, just watching him out there and hearing him talk about the city here and talk about, you know, the team.

And he, he, he, it. I mean, it's the longest thing we ever heard. His World Series speech was four words, five words. So, you know, a little bit different than that. The other thing that hit me is, dude, we got old quick. I mean, we're here, we're here watching Chase Sutley get inducted into the Phillies Wall of Fame. Jack, I said it to Emily as we were watching. I was like, Emily, I was like, I was 24 when this guy started his career. Like, I'm watching, I was like an adult

for his whole career. Now he's doing, like, it's like, it's next level weird for me. I'm right there with you, buddy. I can't believe it. There's a whole generation that doesn't understand peak chase. And a couple of things that I actually felt off the weekend is everyone talks about a hardy place. And I know, I think it's part of what makes Chase Chase. But it's almost like that that discredits how great of a player Chase out of it.

It's a great point, dude. You're right. We almost forget. I mean, like he was one of the great, he's one of the best things that makes me in the history of the sport any amazing defensive player too. Like he is great. Yeah. And I think the, the way he's talked about almost now is like he was just Charlie Hustle out there.

Yeah, you're right. He's talked about as if he's Brandon Nimmo, like running to first base. See, not Brandon, Brandon, Brandon, this guy for a nine year period was arguably the most valuable player in baseball along with Albert Bullholes. Like I, again,

war is not perfect, but it does tell you, it tells you a grand story of who the most valuable players in baseball are. And I think it overvalues second base defense a little bit. I wish that there was a way for like shortstop defense valued more. I think that, I think that has propped up Chase's defense. I think that more than anything.

I agree. But he was a great defensive second baseman, but I agree with you. Yes. He had, um, he had some yips in the post season that are kind of famous, but regardless,

a very, very good. He also had some all to. I mean, again, that play again, Tampa with the fake throw to first and throw it home. Like arguably the greatest defense of play in the history of the franchise in the discussion. And quick turn to second base, which you appreciate, especially with what we've seen.

Always. In this city, Delo plays used to just get turned. I said to Emily when they were showing like highlights and stuff, I was like, we don't talk enough about how lucky we were to have Jimmy and Chase together for as long as we did. I mean, that was just so, it was money. It was like automatic. They were so great together out there. Yeah.

So I don't know, man. It was really just hitting home of these, like it made me want this team to win a world series so bad because I think they deserve to be remembered and talked about in a similar light as the OA team. And the thing that I keep going back to too, we might have talked to this last podcast, but we always talk about the O8 team was like the worst team of that run, 09, 10, 11. And I think that that also discredits how unbelievable that team was just from an offensive and defensive. The defense has been, they were a really. They did every position. Seriously. Ryan Howard tried the worst defender on the field and he was fine, you know? And Burrell, but yeah.

And Burrell, yes. But I mean, when you've got Shane and Worth out there, when you've got, you know, three gold glove caliber infielers along with Howard, when you've got a fantastic catcher. Like, they were, you're right. We don't talk enough, the hitting we talk about, how talented they were. We don't talk about that was an elite defensive baseball team. Well, and then it's like, fast forward to now,

and they're putting a third base, third baseman at first base. They're putting a second basement at third base. They have a center fielder playing shorts up. They have a first base been playing right field. Like, it's just, it's so, it's so different. You know, that's how, that is how teams used to be built. Is, you know, defense was factored in.

But, yeah, it was, it was really cool. I thought Chase was, Chase felt very authentic and genuine. And I think Uram tweeted out some quote from him about how he's obsessed with the Philly fans. I was so great. Yeah, he's, they're obsessed with me. I'm obsessed with them. And I think it's good that Chase, and I don't know this for a fact, but I kind of felt like after he retired,

he was always, like, wary about coming back to Philadelphia because it's always, like, a big deal when he comes back. You know, like, it feels like there's a, like, Chase is here, chase is here, he probably can't go anywhere. And now that we're almost 20 years since they won the World Series, maybe he feels a little bit more comfortable coming back, and it's not this big hoopla. But, yeah, seeing those, really those three Howard, Utley, and Rob,

get celebrated and cheered every single time. And having Howard pull down the be the one to pull the, you know, the plaque, the, you know, curtain off the plaque, like Jimmy's sitting right there in front with him. Like the Phillies, and we've talked about this before, but they do such a great job with the alumni with getting. I mean, think about what there's like 60 players who came back. I mean, I was seeing all kinds of guys. And we talked about, you know, the fun ones like overall. But like, you know, the Bobby and Braers and all these, like, just so many players from our past.

from the time here, the Phillies do such a good job of making it a family. And I think that's something that is underrated as a sports fan when your franchise does that kind of stuff because we all love these guys. They matter to us. We grow up with them. This and that, like to see them come back, it really is special. And I thought this weekend was a great example of all that. Now, I did go down on Friday because I did the pay homage to take.

Did you wait through the rain? I did, shockingly. Now, one member of the house was not. not thrilled my decision to stay. And hang out for Chase. You want to watch the two kids by herself, I wonder? Yes. Probably.

Yes. My eight months pregnant. Yes. I am sure she was super psyched with you. She's like, oh. Hey, listen. It looks like it's going to be like an eight o'clock thing. So it's going to be a little while.

Okay. Yeah. We had to pay for that one for a little bit. But I was like, I was like, listen. It's Chase. I got it. It's Chase. I'm not missing chase.

I'm not missing chase. So I was down there Friday. I'm happy when. It seemed really cool there. I left immediately after the ceremony. I'm sure. Yes. So it was jarring watching a Phillies game and at midnight at home.

That was weird. Oh, I know. Tell me about it. Yeah. The, but I did get, I did get tight when I saw Leberthal and Ed Wade out there again. Every single time.

I know. I get tight. I get tight. Lieberthal sitting there like next to Carlton and J-roll and and Schmitty and like they keep panning to everyone. It's like, well, what's Mike Lieberthal doing there? So I got to. And then I don't think I'm ever going to get over the Ed Wade thing. If you wanted to put, he is in the Phillies Wall of Fame because he did not trade Chase, Jimmy, Ryan and Cole.

the myth that he drafted them is even the most Mike Arbuckle drafted them but he does deserve credit like you got to give him some credit for keep hanging on to them yes yes yes but he doesn't deserve to be on the wall of fame for doing that why is he on there was not expecting the Ed Wade slander well it's just crazy to me that he is up there and it's and it's lying to people saying that he drafted them like put wool ever and Marty and Mike Arbock Mike Rbuckle up there.

If you want, Mike Arbuckle deserves being there more than Ed Wade. He actually drafted those guys. He actually did it. Not Ed Wade, the team wasn't that good to trade them. Why is he up there? If he is up there, then Rubin should be up there. Rubin should be on the wall because at least he won a pennant. He won three National League East titles, four national, three national league.

He was a bat boy, a player. I mean, Ruben is a lifetime Philly, you know, which I do think in that Wall of Fame stuff, that that's part of it all too, you know? Ed Wade, Ed, Wade, Ed, Wade. And they did it the same night last year as when Rollins goes in. Why? You didn't have to put Ed Wade in the Wall of Fame. You didn't have to do it. This is not what I was expecting today, but it's good work by you.

also why did they make like chase his chief so puffy on the i know i know it's just it doesn't look like him that was that was a flawed part of it but yeah no it was it was great though and i thought it was uh you know thank god they went on sunday because it would have completely ruined the weekend all right take bag coming up shout out to the horse tavern and grill today's show is sponsored by miller light and the horse tavern and grill and the horse tavern and girls and sellers roll for every Phillies game enjoyed $3.50.

Miller-Light pints along with her legendary half-pound burgers and famous short herb fries. Miller-like girls win, celebrate responsibly. Fritzie. Uh-oh. He is gone.

There's no one sitting in the seat now. I wonder what happened here. Tucker, uh, there he is. He's back. Just, I look up.

I finish the read. I'm reading away. I come up. There's an empty screen. I'm like, Fritzie, you're up. And then there's silence.

It's like, Oh, hey, there he is. What up, buddy? You made a clean edit of that. I left my phone. When I realized that my connection wasn't super great, sitting on the front porch, so I left my phone out there.

So I had to go run and get it real quick. Good work. Well, I did knock my mic down, so that was. No, but, you know, it could have been worse. It could have been worse. The Killing thinks. It's not like he was pitching unbelievably, but the bullpen is just in,

it was already a dire situation, but, you know, if he's going to miss time with an oblique injury, that's probably going to hamper him for the year. If I had to guess, I mean, it looked like he ripped the thing yesterday as he's coming off the mound. Maybe McFarland could come up and they could put, like he could just step in. Yeah, he can just step in and, you know, kind of go off.

But, yeah, he wasn't pitching that well, but he was really important from the standpoint. Like, they. A body. They needed them. All right. The second thing here is 570 for Stott. 570.

570. That's the extension for the year. Oh, oh, I was thinking this. It's like, I know his OPS is 752, I think. Like that's not what is it was?

Five for 70. It's 14 a year. Can't you do a little, you don't think you get them a little cheaper than that? like five for 60 or something like that, five for 55, four for 50, something like that. That's what I'd like to do. Yeah, yeah. He's definitely, he's definitely in consideration.

Like he is, for a guy who coming into the year, I think a lot, you know, there was hope after the second half last year and that whatever, but I think there's a large portion of Philly's fandom who was just like, this guy doesn't have it. You know, I like him as a ball player, but he just isn't good enough. So it's pretty exciting to see. No, it's huge. and I mean his stats since like June 1 I think are I think he's hitting over 300 I think since July I mean he's on a streak right now where he is I mean he's finally walking a lot more which is big like he's someone who's always had a good eye and it never made sense why he would never walk more than he did and it feels like slowly but shortly as he's getting more comfortable he is walking more he is getting big hits He's not striking out, so he's still doing all of that stuff, which is really, really good.

And all of a few guys, you can lay down a bump when he needs to. I mean, yes. Well, that's that. I mean, yesterday with. Yeah, right. I mean, like, I think that was JT's first bun since 2018 or 29. Was it? I think it's been forever.

And then, like, T, T, I just. That's the one that annoys me. The JT thing happens. Like, Trey, it's like, are you, like, you should be elite. at bunting. Like, what the hell, man? Yeah, it's not a weapon. It's not a weapon for him.

So since June 1, since June 1, he's hitting 304 with an 850 OPS. That's really good, man. Yeah, with playing obviously at second base, elite second base. Yeah, but it's better for, it's a really good numbers for a second baseman, less good for a third baseman, but not his fault. Yeah, not his fault at all as we are still doing this thing because we have a six five slap better. 43 games left.

by the way, 43, unless they make the playoffs, there's a little bit more, but, but, but 43 games left. Also could be 43 games left for old,

for old Donnie baseball. Yeah, I think it probably should be. I think if nothing else, this has made it easier for us to be like, all right, we wanted Alex Cora theoretically anyway. I mean,

coming into this season, if you said you could have Alex Corrid, Don Mattingly, I would take Zalikora 100 times out of 100, and I still would. So I think it'll make it a little easier to make that pivot, because Alex Corey is a great manager.

Yeah, unless they go on some miracle run, which I think with this bullpen feels very, very hard to believe that they're going to go on. Unless, hey, Alex McFarland, he comes up. He's great. Maybe. I don't, we'll get to gauge. I don't think that's going to happen. But, yeah, it's been a tough go of it for old Donnie baseball for a little while now.

Yeah. And then last thing before, a quick little minor league. minute is um harper's just walking all the time now like 10 and 10 games i believe right like he it's been it's great it's four yesterday it's putting a lot of trust in his teammates i also also makes me think like you could have been doing this all year yeah yeah like you could have my help that arises behind him you know so that does help a bit you know but yeah of course and he's you know he's he's he's climbing his way out of the the slump that he went in he's had two big slumps this year the one for 31 slump and the one that ended probably 10 games ago.

And it's kind of hurt his overall numbers, but he looks like he is climbing out of it. And I think Marsh is slowly but surely climbing out of it as well. He's really been struggling. But to the Harper point, to your point, I agree with you. I think, yes, he's had a couple, uh, the slumps were really bad. So they hurt his numbers like you said.

But I like personally, I think anyone who's watched, you know, every game or the majority of games this season, like Bryce has been one of their best players like and he has been really really good like I have been I think Bryce Harper has shown up considering the off season elite this whole thing and like elite whatever we could be semantics and stuff Bryce been one of their best players he's been really good for them and I I really appreciate what he's given them this year yeah I mean the 950 OPS seasons are probably done for him at this point but he's 33 man you know it's like you know 850 between 850 and 900 is is

where you expect Bryce settle in. couldn't believe that Schwabber got under 900 finally. Like his OPS heading into yesterday, I think it was like 8.90. That was the biggest thing from yesterday was him hitting two home runs. And the second one being like a real, like the first one, kind of eaked out the opposite field. But you know, the second one, a real home run. And just in general, I mean, July 18th was the no homer since then.

It only had three in the month of, or since July 1st to begin with. To the point if we keep talking about like if Wheeler and Sanchez aren't great, they have no chance. If Schwerber's not hitting and certainly high home runs, they actually have no chance. It's one of those things where he has to hit for them up to chance. And, like, he, you're kind of waiting for the real Schwabber run in the postseason. You know, I almost don't. Yeah.

He had the one home run in the Mets game and then didn't, the Mets series and then did not get a hit after that last year. And that one game against the Dodgers that he, yeah, and I was that, yeah. He also just might not be the kind of guy that you can, you can like bank on in October. I almost just has to be like the once in a while home run. I know that we're paying him a lot of money and stuff like that. I was with him. It's just you got to have a moment. Because I don't think he's a good enough hitter, pure hitter,

to kind of sustain it. Whereas that's where you need the trays, the harpers, and the arise. Yeah, it's almost like you need those guys to hit. You need, like if Schwerber over a playoff run gives you five or six homers, but it's, you know, 200.

That's fine. That's great. That's what you need. You just need to pop some home runs in some spots for you. But to your point, I agree with you. Like I don't, like Harper's the guy you hope can go on a tear and really just every a bat be, be impactful, you know? Mm-hmm.

And then a quick little minor league minute. Gage looks tired. Like, it looks like that it's kind of catching up to him, you know. He has a pitch more than 40. He never been 40. Yeah. That's what I thought it was. I mean, that's a big jump, you know.

It's a really big jump. And it was some unlucky stuff with his, with his last start, but also, it just wasn't as sharp. And he's still up in the high 90s, but it's just not as, not as precise. I mean, he's at 71 innings now,

which is more than he is done. So I would, I would love if they started transitioning him to a bullpen piece to help out this year, but I don't think that's going to happen. Maybe something that happens in the off season, but even that,

who knows, I mean, might as well develop as a starter as long as you can. So, if you think you can start, develop as a starter, you know? Yeah.

So I, I think he looks pretty tired. I don't, I don't know if that's going to be a realistic option. but McFarland is certainly Yeah, McFarland is certainly more of an option And then

So we talk a lot I need to transition To the bullpen McFarling can just be in the bullpen You know, he's a bullpen pitcher already Which helps Correct, yeah, it was tough It's tough week for my boys

You know, Overn Miller got hit around Up in Jersey Shore Gage looks a little bit tired Ramon's not here anymore Ah, you know, we're battling through it Balker struck out a lot of guys again But a lot of some runs So, you know, you're battling

You're battling your grinds at these times Post trade deadline and you hope you come out the other side brighter. We talk a lot about the DSL, of course. Juan Parra, one of our baby boys, Francisco, the biggest baby boy. All right, number one baby boy. Yes, and he is, he cooled off at the end of the week because he was on fire to start the week. But, you know, Francisco is perfectly fine.

Juan Parra, very good, interesting player. The one we got to talk about all of a sudden is Edwin Ramirez kit, who's been hitting behind Francisco Renteria. He's hit over 400 with the... Oh, yeah. How many games? Like how many games? He's been there most of the year.

I mean, every time I check the box score, it seems like he is in it. But he is. Not a super tiny sample size is the point. Like he's over a fair amount of it bats. That's wild. I've been waiting to bring up Edwin Ramirez for a little bit now. So he is a, he is an outfielder. But like that team, they're winning a lot of games.

They're having some big offensive nights for days down there, which is very, very good to see. And he's one to kind of keep your eye on par of him and Renteria, I feel like the main three down there. But they might have found some good piece. Now, this is the first year I've like really followed the DSL as I, you know, we're starting to get invested. I mean, this is a new thing for us to actually have exciting Latin American players

or young. Like we don't normally do that. Yeah. And then. And by the way, we've talked about, but that is such a big thing for the organization to learn into that. I mean,

it has always been one of the main. deficiency of the Phillies compared to other teams. Yeah. And then Willie G. Willie G is having a very solid, solid start to his clear water campaign. It seems like once a night. It seems like once a night. He is hitting a ball 100 plus miles an hour somewhere hard.

So like I said, last podcast, you weren't there. But he is a tool shed. Absolute toolshed. And if he can just cut down the Ks, cut down the strikeouts, there's a really good player there. And a solid start for Boganpool. he had a home run this week. He is hitting over, he is hitting over 300.

You do see the eye. I think they're, they're going to continue working with him on impacting the baseball and lifting the baseball because there is some stupid pop in there. But, you know, Bougainpool, at least getting off to a good start average in OPS wise. A couple more singles recently,

but some good signs of life. Although I am planting my flag on Gasparino Island. I'm pretty excited. I love it. I can't wait. I'm in on Willie G too. I believe it. I've never seen him play and I couldn't be more excited.

All right. Good. Again, Thursday night, the 13th. The Scala's fire in the Northeast. We're going to be hanging out, watching the field of dreams game. Philly tickets give away. It's going to be so much fun.

Please coming out with us. I can't wait. And I'm excited to do baseball movie trivia. I mix it up a little bit. You know, right my wheelhouse there. Yeah. I mean,

you're probably going to carry the lion's there. Yeah. I won't expect if you. I'm actually, I'm going to do extra. I'm going to have like easy and hard questions so I can gauge the audience and see where we're at. It's going to be really fun.

So I can't wait coming out of this. Like what kind of dog was it that picked up the baseball? So I, I, very close. I had a question close to that as an easy one. Do we just give it out here? Okay.

So there's, who signed the baseball? Okay. That's a good. That's like, you know, so those are the kind of things I was thinking. What was the lifeguard's name in the same?

Wendy Peppercourt. Yeah, so we'll have fun with it. It'll be awesome. And, of course, we'll back later in the week to react to. Cardinals series, pretty big series, actually, in terms of the Cardinals only a couple games, of a game and a half, whatever it is, like, they're right. Maybe it's a couple more than that. But they're in that, you know, it's obviously the Phillies and Diamondbacks tied for that last wildguard spot.

The Padreys one game mine up, then it's the Cardinals right there. So he's a pretty big series. And then I see. Yeah, you got a bury them. You got a burry. also you got Painter versus Dobbins, Sanchez versus Palanti and Wheeler versus Leahy. So you got Sanchez and Wheeler in a...

Important series. In a series, you should take care of business. Yeah, so that's huge. All right, we will be back later in the week, Thursday night coming out with us. And start winning some games, boys, please, please, can we turn this thing around and not talk about, are you going to freaking make the playoffs, like enough with that?

All right. We'll be back later in the week. Until that, he's friends themselves. Thank you.