High Hopes: A Phillies Podcast - Will Rob Thomson Manage The Phillies In 2024?

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Joe Giglio and Tucker discuss the future of Rob Thomson and the Phillies managerial spot after the loss to the Diamondbacks in the NLCS. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether the action is at the link or the bank, there's never an off day on Broad Street. It's the biggest news of the day, every day, with takes from someone who's never short on them. It's WIP Daily with Joe Giglio. Welcome on NWIP Daily, Joe Giglio with you. Appreciate everyone listening, subscribing, following the podcast. Of course, our video feed, which we're back on here on YouTube. Appreciate everyone watching here. Tucker will join me in a few minutes as we go through this.

I mean, that's what the last day and now to today has been going through the emotions of the Phillies choking away at the NLCS, the Arizona Dimebacks. And there's a lot of culprits. They lost as a team. It wasn't just one star that struggled. It was really all the stars that struggled from Turner to Harper to Castellanos really went ice cold down the stretch. A lot of reasons the Phillies did not come out on top and are not getting ready for a World Series on Friday. But there's no other way to get around this. One of the reasons why they're not in the World Series was the managing of Rob Thompson during the series. He didn't do a good job. I like Rob Thompson. I was one of the first to really say when he started managing last year, they're like, this is something. They have something here. And I thought they should give him a contract extension, name him the full-time

manager, all that kind of stuff in 2022 when he took him to the World Series. And I thought he did a really good job. And this year, it was a similar kind of season, though he was at the helm the entire season. And they start off slow, and they get it going, and all of a sudden, boom, they're nearly in the World Series. But in this particular NLCS, Rob Thompson did not manage well. I can't sugarcoat that. He got outmanaged by the guy in the opposing dugout. He didn't adjust.

The lineup construction never made sense to me. It continued to make little sense. I mean, I know Alec Boehm had a home running game seven. That doesn't change the fact that lineup didn't make any sense. That Real Muto and Marsh were as far down as they were, and Boehm and Stott were as far up as they were. It was nonsense lineup construction. He stayed with Johan Rojas the entire series until he basically watched the most feeble game seven at bat you'll ever see. And then he took him out. And of course, there's a Craig Kimbrell stuff where Kimbrell looks shot in game three.

And to go back to him on zero days rest for game four, he's out there throwing 93 mile an hour meatball to Alec Thomas for a home run. It was a bad series for Rob Thompson. And as you think about the future of the Phillies and the future of Rob Thompson, I think there's a very little chance he's going to just get fired, and I'm not calling for that. But I am calling for a big consideration on his future for a couple reasons. We'll get into them all here.

This is the way I feel about Rob Thompson now. He is a really good manager over 162. His steadiness, that even hand, I think we did a podcast during the season where I said he's exactly what they need. The even, steady hand over 162 has been really good for the Phillies because this group, high priced stars, expectations, you know, you need a steady hand over 162 with this group. And I think it keeps them level headed. It keeps them day to day and it's helped them make the playoffs and back to back seasons.

And that's an accomplishment. But the strengths that Rob Thompson has in the regular season are his weakness and his undoing in the postseason. He's too loyal. He's too big picture. And you have to react very quickly and very swiftly in the postseason. And he does not do that. Now, I think with his bullpen, he's shown he's aggressive and he will use guys in different roles. And I like that. But for whatever reason, he doesn't do the same with his regular players.

He wants to keep the steady hand. And I can make a real case it was his undoing two years in a row. Castellanos sitting in the middle of the order last year was ridiculous. He was not a middle-of-the-order hitter last season. Boehm was not a middle-of-the-order hitter in this postseason. Rojas was not a major league hitter in this postseason. The Phillies were basically playing with a pitcher at the nine spot in the lineup in terms of offensive production. Topper's steadiness in the regular season is great.

In the postseason, his lack of urgency and his lack of foresight really hurt this team. It hurt them last year in the World Series against Houston, although they were the lesser team. So you kind of forgive him. He was playing with one hand, died behind his back because the Astros just had better players and more players that wasn't the case in this series it just wasn't the Phillies had more players and better players than the Arizona Diamond Bucks even though their guys didn't show up for all seven games they had enough they should have won this series so Rob Thompson has now shown to be a very good regular season manager and I think he's shown to be closer to

a liability than a big asset in the postseason. So now what? Now what do the Phillies do? Well, a couple of things. He has one year left on his contract. It's not a long-term deal. They gave him a two-year deal when they made him the full-time manager after last season. That's it. 2023, which we're done with. 2024. So Rob Thompson is approaching a lame duck season, which tells me it's decision time. The Phillies are either going to cold move on. I doubt that will happen. And I'm not advocating for that. They could look for an upgrade. And there is a name out there that I believe is worth at least a consideration. And then of course, there's a contract extension and making the

long-term guy. So let's just go through a couple of the recent or in recent times history of something like this, because I don't think the idea of looking for an upgrade because this team's trying to win a World Series is insane. I mean, we see this in baseball history a lot, especially in recent times. And then we'll get Tucker's take on what to do with Topper here. So a couple of things. Number one, the most famous one, I guess, in recent years is the Chicago Cubs after the 2014 season realized they were on the cusp of something and they dumped Rick Renteria, who was their manager, for Joe Maddon, who was maybe the biggest manager or free agent in a long time at that point. And the Cubs went on to win a World Series in 2016. Now,

it's not apples to apples because the Cubs hadn't done anything yet. They were a young team. The Phillies have done something, have done something under Topper, and they're already a playoff team and a team on the cusp of a championship. The Cubs were on the cusp of being good, and they wanted the right manager. But keep the Madden thing in mind because he was a big-time manager of free agent who everyone in baseball recognized at that moment was really good, was probably a top five ish manager in baseball. And he was available at the moment.

And the Cubs acted because they didn't want to waste this opportunity. Another thing to keep in mind, go back to 2003, the Boston Red Sox, Grady Little. They fired him. He was in the ALCS. The Red Sox were the of the best teams in baseball, and he made critical errors in that series. He allowed Pedro Martinez on fumes to go out there. It's not that dissimilar to Craig Kimbrell.

Now, Pedro is better than Kimbrell, but they were both tremendous pitchers, Pedro, all-timer, Kimbrell, very, very good, borderline Hall of Famer, that were very close to the end of their careers. And Grady Little in set three in game seven allowed Pedro to keep pitching when it was clear to everyone with a pair of eyes he was out of gas. And the Yankees came back to beat him. They fired him for Terry Francona. They got rid of Grady Little, didn't bring him back for 2004

because that team's goal was to win the World Series. And they brought Terry Francona in, and the next year they won the World Series. Another example, and one that I think is apropos because it's the decision maker here. In 2017, after back-to-back playoff appearances, including a 93-win season, Dave Dombrowski, who's heading up the Boston Red Sox at that time, fired John Farrell. John Farrell had already won a World Series with the Red Sox in 2013. He was a World Series winning manager in 2013. And his last two years in Boston, they made the playoffs. He was coming off a 93-win season, and they fired him for Alex Cora. The next year, the Red Sox won the World Series. The idea of trying to be better

is what championship teams try to do. If you believe you have a championship team, you try to get better. That's it. You add, you keep going, you push. Nebraska did it with the Red Sox in 2018, firing Farrell for Cora. The Red Sox did it with Grady Little, Terry Francona in 04. And the reason I bring all this up and the reason I am wondering today and thinking today about the future of Rob Thompson is Craig Council is available. This is probably the biggest managerial free agent since Joe Maddon in 2014. Brewer's manager. He's officially a free agent now. He's going to interview with the Mets.

That's probably where he's going to go. His relationship with David Stearns, who used to head up the Milwaukee Brewers, they worked together for a long time. I would say it's probably and likely that Craig Council goes to the New York Mets. But if I'm the Phillies, I have to make a phone call. Dave Dombrowski was the general manager of the Marlins in 1997 when Craig Council scored the winning run in the World Series. They know each other. They have a relationship. That was his player.

And, look, maybe Craig Council is staying in Milwaukee. Maybe he's going to go to the Mets. Maybe he has no interest. And I would not just fire Rob Thompson to do it, and I wouldn't fire him unless I had some sort of information that I had a chance at Craig Council. But there is a precedent in just recent baseball history to upgrade here if you're the Phillies. The Cubs did it. The Red Sox did it twice.

Dabrowski's been part of this. If Craig Council is available and the Phillies can get him, I would move on from Rob Thompson for Craig Council. Now, again, I'm not advocating for the firing of Rob Thompson. I like him. I think he's a good manager, and I think the Phillies will likely keep him, but I've seen this before. I've seen Grady little,

you know, out and Terry Francona in, I have seen John Farrell out and Alex core in. And I've seen those, that franchise, the Red Sox win world series immediately by upgrading. They had championship kind of course. They couldn't get over the hump and whatever fault the manager was,

it was, and that's saying it was all John Farrell's fault. It wasn't all over the hump and whatever fault the manager was, it was. I'm not saying it was all John Farrell's fault. It wasn't all Grady Little's fault, but the team felt that they held them back in the biggest moments. And in this particular series against the Diamondbacks, I do think Rob Thompson held the Phillies back. He made crucial errors. His loyalty came back to bite him. Tucker, the Phillies have a very weird situation with Rob Thompson. My guess is he's coming back, and I don't think it's a bad thing. I like Topper. I think everyone likes Topper.

But this series wasn't good, and he doesn't have a contract beyond next season, which makes this kind of weird. I feel like either they're going to extend his contract or something weird is going to happen here. Yeah, I mean, it's just a really weird situation. Maybe with his contract, his age is kind of an interesting point, too, because he's 60 years old. We all remember he told, you know,

Dombrowski that he was going to retire at the end of last year. And then when everything happened, he said, OK, I'll come back. And they gave him a short year, a short contract. And I think he was the seventh oldest manager in baseball this season, which isn't crazy. But you look at some of the guys in front of him, like Dusty Baker, who's now retired, like Terry Francona, who's now retired, Bruce Bochy. It took a lot for him to get back. Buck Showalter also retired. So now you're looking at, you know, one of the three or four

oldest managers in baseball starting next year. And the whole Diamondbacks here, I just thought was weird because you mentioned he's loyal, but I've always thought he's been proactive when it came to post-season baseball. And, you you know especially you don't have to look any further than the brave series right and what he did the way he managed that pitching staff and we sat here a couple weeks ago and I said what he did in game one of that series with Ranger Suarez and the bullpen was probably the finest piece of managing I've ever seen from a Phileas manager and I think a lot of that's gotten forgotten based on what's happened in the last week or so.

But I also wonder if having a tool lead kind of made him more comfortable, made him not as aggressive, not play for every out, not play for every inning, not play for every game because, Hey, we got a tool lead. No need to worry about going all out today in game three or game four, because we have two more coming back at home. All we have to do is not lose four or five to an 84 win team and we'll win the pennant and unfortunately that did happen but looking ahead yeah you mentioned Dave Dombrowski has been a part of these things Dave

Dombrowski has been very aggressive in the way he's built ball clubs and I think the manager position is part of that and as much as I love Rob Thompson, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a meeting in a week, two weeks, however long it is, where they have a discussion about what his situation is. Because I think if I'm Rob Thompson, I don't know, does he want to go into this season as a lame duck manager? Like it very rarely happens,

especially for a guy who's made the postseason back-to-back years, won a pennant his first year. I don't know if they're going to make a decision that they're moving on from Thompson, but I have a feeling we have to learn before spring training whether or not he's here beyond 2024, because I don't think he enters 2024 with only one year left on his contract. I agree. No, I think something happens here, whether it's a contract extension. But again, that Tucker brought up the idea of his age. Does he want, does he want one? I mean, does he, and how long, like, does he want to manage for the next five or 10 years? Is that

his goal now? Or does he kind of think maybe in a year or two, I want to do what I planned anyway, which is retire. I don't know. Look, Rob Thompson as the Phillies manager, isn't going to hold them back next year during the season. They're going to win, you know, whatever, whatever they're supposed to win, they'll probably win. I don't think he's going to be a liability in the regular season, but the goals have changed now with this franchise. It's not back to respectability. It's not back to the playoffs. There's now only one goal for this group, and that is to win the world series. And that, that particular sense reminds me of the Red Sox 0304. That group had one goal, That particular sense reminds me of the Red Sox 0-3-0-4.

That group had one goal. Nothing else mattered. Games, wins, nothing mattered except winning a championship. The Red Sox, again, with Dombrowski 17-18, they had one goal, win a World Series, and they moved on from the manager. This is baseball. We see this all the time. And Rob Thompson isn't locked into a long-term deal.

And he didn't do enough in the postseason this year to make me think that there's no questions about him as a manager. There absolutely is in the big spot. His loyalty destroyed him down the stretch. And Tucker may be right. Maybe he got too comfortable. And you can't be comfortable in October with the way these series go. I would not fire Rob Thompson cold. I wouldn't even fire Rob Thompson unless I had real intel that Craig Council was interested. But I believe if the Phillies could get a private conversation with Craig Council and Dave Dabrowski probably has his phone number and says, would you be interested in Philadelphia?

And he said yes or didn't say no, then I would start the process of moving mountains to make that happen. He's a top five manager of the game. He's one of the best, you know, a top five manager in the game he's one of the best you know in-game managers in the sport by i'm not even close i mean what he's got out of that small market team 80 something wins every year he's outperformed his expected win loss every single year he's been the dugout the guy's incredible and he may be a met he may be a brewer he probably won't be a philly but this this Rob Thompson thing is bubbling under the surface of the future of the Phillies. The players are locked in.

There's a couple players that are free agents that we'll talk about a lot in the next couple weeks. But what are they doing with Topper? Is he getting an extension? And would they consider an upgrade? I think they should if the right one is out there. Appreciate everyone listening, subscribing, following WIP Daily. We'll talk a lot more about this offseason as it comes. Came too quickly, but appreciate everyone listening to today's show.

Thanks. We'll talk soon.