High Strange - Roundtable Discussion

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Round table discussion with host Payne Lindsey and the producers of High Strange covering everything from behind the scenes stories on the making of the podcast, reactions to interviews, and personal takes on topics covered in the show. For questions and comments please contact us at [e-mail] or you can call and leave a voicemail by calling 470-681-6703. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay subscription starting at 1299 per month. Alright, who do we got here? We got...pain? This pain Lindsay? No, it's not. The famous pain Lindsay. It's not actually.

It's a doppelganger. What do you do on the show? Um, nothing. I just, you know, I'll let you guys do all the work and I'll just take the credit for it. You know, I'll let you guys do all the work and I just take the credit for it, you know preferred method the Hollywood way What are the show? Yeah, welcome to the bonus the show within the show. Yeah the round table except for its square There's it's well rectangle, but yeah, yeah true They can see it. Yeah, I was bad at you can't geometry right? Is that geometry it is? I think it's y'all I'm not okay

Yeah, Dylan doesn't know for sure math one thing Dylan's definitely bad at in terms of math is adding up helium particles Yeah, right turns out there's a lot of them turns out you need 10 10 X what you thought you needed We start to fill it up. Is it going in there? It's filling, it's looking great, I'm getting really excited. Okay, good. My confidence is of 90%, 95%, this is totally gonna work. Alright, really quick.

Then all of a sudden, the helium tank just fizzles out. I didn't even look the whole time that you were driving that the car was gonna blow up because of these big ass helium tanks. Just driving through the mountains in Arizona, the big ass helium tank in the back just bouncing around. I cracked the windows though, so. I like how the guy, the guy was like,

you don't know anything about this, and I'm not gonna help you strap this down or anything. You just throw it, we'll just throw it in there, let it roll around. It's like, you're an American, you wanna buy some helium? You got it. He's like, you've never done this before, right? And you're like, get correct.

He's like, cool, I'm gonna give him some empty fucking canisters at helium then. It work flows on Sundays. So fuck off. I'm convinced that one happened. Yeah. So what are we doing today? What are we talking about? Well, I guess we should, we kind of need to figure that out.

We need to figure out what the show is going to be about when better time to figure it out than right now. That's true. I think we should do it on UFOs. Oh, like TV. That's a good start, I think. What if we like talked about UFOs? Yeah.

What do you know about UFOs? As an after show of the UFO podcast. Just the coincidence. That's the coincidence. It's smart. I dig that. You ever seen an alien? No, I wish.

Have you seen an alien? Maybe I have an alien. Maybe we're all aliens. Pain, you know. Have you seen Nalien? Maybe I have him in Alien. Maybe we're all aliens. Pain is in Alien. I've never said that I wasn't an alien. Didn't say that I was either. But I didn't say I wasn't. You know, we'll find out.

Also, what if I was an alien? I just didn't know it. What if we were all aliens and we didn't know it? It's what I'm saying. It's probably the case. Bring the weed out. Let's talk about this. Maybe we talk about, I feel like if you listen

to this podcast, then episode one through eight, we go through different stories with interviews and accounts from people that we all met and talked to in real life. Maybe we just expand on some of those stories and talk about, I don't know It may be even some of the theories we had that didn't make it into the into the story or a little side note that might be kind of interesting You know

Yeah, something else. Yeah, I'll start. I think I think is healing take was leaking Yeah, let's talk about that was episode five so six or something? Yeah. The funny part about that is, is you were, I mean, it was not for the show. You were very, very disappointed in yourself. You were upset. And the worst days of my life. I thought it was hilarious. I did feel bad for you.

I didn't laugh in your face, but I was like, this is so fucking funny. You bought me a drink at the bar later. I did. It helped a lot, I'll say. And you just thought this was over. You know, you had failed. And I mean, you did fail on the little part of it,

but I was like, no, this was like, this was an experiment. I think that we still use this. It's actually interesting to me that we put all this time, money, and effort into trying to create a hoax, and we did fail. Now, I think on around two, we would undoubtedly put something in the sky that looks like a UFO.

Absolutely. But it took a, it was a trial and error. We're in the right spot with the right materials and all kind of weird shit went into it and we couldn't get the fucker off the ground. Yeah. So it came close. Yeah, we'll say, okay, well actually that is the story that we're putting in there. So yeah, I was like, okay, well actually that is the story that we're putting in there

Because I think it actually speaks to you know Like like you were saying. I mean it's When you see something weird in the sky odds are it is either some sort of optical illusion or Somebody you know went through a lot of effort to put it up there to look like that, or maybe it's actually something, you know, some sort of anomaly, some sort of unknown craft. I think, you know, despite our failed efforts at getting a UFO in the sky, I think we learned the lesson of, hey, maybe some of those things you're seeing in the sky are actually weird. Totally.

I mean, that was my big takeaway. You know, it's like, it's sad as it was to not get it off the ground. I really, at the end of the day in hindsight, I'm kind of glad we didn't, you know, because it taught that better lesson, which is like, there is this huge level of effort that goes into making these things and making them really work.

And we couldn't do it. You know, we tried, I tried my damnedest, I really did, couldn't do it. And for me, you know, that adds some level of credence to a lot of these claims of things that float around, you know, you see them all the time. And I think it just, it takes away a little bit of people's ability to be able to say like,

now that's man-made, you know, because it's hard. It's really hard to do. Yeah, and there's really two camps that I've seen on the internet where it's like, you either believe, I mean, obviously there's gray area, but you believe in everything that you see, every video no matter how shitty is a UFO or you don't believe in every video no matter how convincing is not a UFO and it can't be a UFO. I think we, I don't think anyone should blindly believe anything.

I think that that is problematic, especially if you're trying to solve something. If you're trying to figure something out, you cannot just believe whatever is the most comfortable for you to believe. That's not a very scientific approach to something that has a lot of questions still. So I think that, you know, for high-strange,

I tried to stay as objective as possible and kind of test, you know, for high-strange, I tried to stay as objective as possible and kind of test, you know, like, bringing in someone like Mick West who is known on the internet as being someone who is a major debunker of claims. And from what I can tell, most of the time he's right, you know, there's a lot of things on the internet that look like something and it turns out to be nothing. So you can't just blindly believe everything you see, but there are some stories that are harder to debunk and have never been debunked. And that was kind of my focus on when it came to picking the stories and the cases to cover in the series. I wanted to focus on those the most because

those are the ones that still have a lot of questions to them. And maybe if we just attempt to find some answers to those, we'll learn more about it in that process. So let's just start with episode one, right? Which was kind of an introduction to the series, but we touched on Roswell for a second. And to be honest, I always thought Roswell

was totally just some bullshit. Because that's the one you hear all the time. Roswell, New Mexico, and for years, people have thought that a spaceship crashed there, but they've never been able to prove it. So I was like, this is just one of those urban legends at this point. But as I went through all the information, I realized that undoubtedly something had to have happened because of the response that was there.

There's no way that this flimsy tiny weather balloon that looks like I mean tin foil fell in the middle of the desert and Caused all this uproar that wouldn't make any sense. No one would even know about it Something had to have happened to spark the attention. Now maybe it went The game of telephone went too far over the years and it wasn't as crazy as we thought, but there's no way that it was just this flimsy, tin foil-looking weather balloon. And then that's it. If it was that clear cut, I wouldn't be talking about it right now. And so to me, that was interesting, just going back, you'd have to say that all

these people are lying. So many people. And I bet some of them are lying, but power and numbers, you get enough people saying something, it makes you at least want to listen and dissect it some more and consider it as an option. I mean, what was your take on the Roswell incident? I mean, I was kind of the same way. I guess I was, I leaned towards not believing it. I didn't think it was complete bullshit like growing up, but I was like, you know, there's a big chance that never happened and that was not real

or anything like that. But yeah, like you said, which happened with a lot of the stories, researching these stories for this show. There was so many times where I was like, wow, the further I dive into this, the more I believe it, the more like circumstantial evidence adds up that I'm like, wow, this, hold on.

There's affidavits of people who were there, there's a rancher, that's all part of the crash, then there's another person like, I think a mile or two away that had some in his yard or whatever. And it's just, the more you read about, you're like, well, wait a minute, the army put out a broadcast saying that

they've recovered a flying disc. And it's like, why would they do that? If is that misinformation? And then that goes too far into conspiracy world, where it's like, that's a crazier conspiracy to me than the Roswell crash. Right. And I feel like, you know, the original broadcast that they recovered a flying disc, either

that was just a mistake in terms of how they described it. Just an innocent, like why'd you say disc and then it became some huge thing after that? Or it was the truth. I don't think those, I think it was nothing deeper than that. But you'd want to think if the military is putting out a statement to concerned citizens of New Mexico and beyond of this crash that happened in the desert that they would get the wording right. Because a disc is extremely different than a tinfoil flimsy balloon. So I don't know, but you also make the argument that somebody flubbed and just used a word

that maybe they shouldn't have, not thinking they would, not thinking they would cause some crazy conspiracy theories for decades after that. And it's just as simple as that. But then you, you'd also have to add in that all these people would follow suit and create this narrative that's all bullshit, but somehow connects to itself. This is back in, what was it? It was a 1967. I've got some dates for you.

So this happened July of 1947, right? Yeah, okay, yeah, 47. Okay, and then Air Force was created in September of 47. That's juicy. That seems strange to me that, you know, it was all like army, I think, originally. And then they're like, let's make a specialized branch. I'm sure they had a type of Air Force

that was like the army Air Force or whatever, like how they have the Navy Air Force or whatever the Air Force Navy, I don't know, I'm not good with the military, but creating a specialized branch for the Air Force, the same year as Roswell, seems strange to me. I don't know, and wasn't the guy at Area 51, he just kept talking about 1947,

and how special that date was. Yeah, I mean, also it's 1947. It's like, today in 2023, if somebody's creating a hoax or going around, you know, spreading some lie that they experience something extraterrestrial or paranormal, they're usually attention-seeking people, right? They're people who are trying to get your attention and there's so many ways to do that now. You can write a tweet, you can go on Instagram live,

you can go on a talk show, you can write a book, all kind of shit. Back then, if you're living in some small town of Roswell, New Mexico, which I've been there, it's still small. It had to have been even smaller back then. Way smaller. You're like yelling into a void that something crazy happened. I just don't see

if you were doing that to get attention, I just don't see how they would even have got that attention back then. It would have just been very unsatisfying for someone who would be making it up for their own gratification. To what end? To what end know, I mean, to what the end is. To what end, right. At the time, you know, to set the stage in the 1940s, late 1940s, we enter World War II, and like the peak of it is like 1945, 1946, you know, so you're seeing the beginning of the great, the second great war, the whole world is changed by this,

but the first time at least in American pop culture that you start to hear these accounts of these flying discs, you know, this term flying disc came from a just a random pilot in America who was flying over some mountains somewhere in the Midwest and, you know, made a report that he saw like a fleet of flying saucer-shaped, like plate-shaped discs that were just flying around in a V-shape, which is a weird thing for a pilot to say, especially at that time. It's really bizarre. But then you can see how something like that, which might blow up in popular culture in

1945, when granted, there's not a lot of really interesting things happening in 1945, at least media-wise. You mean it wasn't cool in 1945? You didn't think so. I should call it cooler, because there's less bullshit to deal with on the internet. True, yeah. It didn't exist.

There was no internet. But I mean, you can imagine how pop culture would take this idea of something like a flying disc and then just kind of run rampant with it. And you could see how that could spread over a year or two to where in 1947, all of a sudden, the military, somebody in the military, some media rep in the military says,

maybe we finally solved this enigma of these flying disks that had been in our airspace. During World War II, they were called the Fuf fighters. And pilots all over the world saw these things. And they called them the flying disk Fuf fighters at the time. Well, before UFO, it's a term. So you can imagine that the army might get a hold of something like this and say, we've recovered one of these flying discs.

Maybe we can now get to the very bottom of it. Oh, shit. Oh, no. Oh, I did was just touch this remote. I touched it. It's on. I breathe so angry in here. I don't know which one.

Oh, whoa. All right. Whoa. Moving around. Getting all excited talking about aliens. Here's the thing. You have an excellent point on Roswell. I think undoubtedly that all these reports of flying discs happening in the 40s and in

that time frame have over time influenced the Hollywood trope image of a UFO flying saucer and probably not probably definitely influenced people's accounts of seeing stuff that is odd in the sky. But I also think that it simultaneously exists with a real phenomena. It's, they can both be true. That's the thing. I think that all these stories have influenced what people claim to see. And I would say for probably even a majority of weird sightings,

they're probably something super normal. But I think there are some that are not easily explained away, that could likely be extraterrestrials or some other intelligence beyond Earth. And it's not that black and white. It's easier to look at this topic of UFOs and aliens in a very black and white sense, but I don't think it's that simple.

It can all be true as well. It could be true that a lot of them are fake and it could be true that some of them are real. And if you're someone who doesn't wanna believe, you're gonna focus on the ones that are easily debunked. If you're someone who wants to believe, you're gonna focus on the ones that are easily debunked. If you're someone who wants to believe, you're gonna focus on the other ones. But it's like, how do we like meet in the middle

and recognize that they both can coexist and that there likely is something else that we haven't been able to scientifically explain yet that will probably be explained at some point in human history. I hope so. I really hope I didn't say our lifetime I just said human history which I hope that's you know that we're a part of that one But it should it could be a long time. I have no idea could be it could be tomorrow So they say on Twitter. It's coming soon

You just you just wait. I actually know everything. I'm just parsing it out. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Some insiders reach out to you. Yeah, they did. Yeah. The no black visits in my house. They were super cool. We had cocktails Spokes the guards and we just got a shot the shit, right? And yeah, they told me everything, but they said hey look Don't tell them all it wants string them along a little bit, right? Tell them every day that something big is coming next. And say that until you die. Yeah. And then right before you die, say some shit and then make up the rest.

And then just confuse everybody. Then everybody will say it was a deathbed confession. So it must be the truth. It has to be the truth. You know, those of us confused me though. The deathbed confession, like is that your like last two or oughta be like, before I take my last breath, I'm gonna fill with y'all so hard.

I'm gonna say some crazy shit. It's not a bad way to go. I saw aliens and Roswell and I was like, you're like, okay, what the hell dude? Like, he's not even alive to get a kick out of that. I was always like, when I'm old, when I'm 90 years old in hospice or whatever, if I make it there, I'm gonna do heroin.

That was always my thing, which I don't know what. What? It's like, well, what's gonna have you gonna die? Who cares? Right. That's true. You know, glad with the pain. You leave the life. That's true.

I wanna try it. Yeah, if you're like 90 years old or above and you're in your deathbed, every drug should be legal. They should, the doctors should go in there with this briefcase out of pulp fiction and be like, what you want. Any of it. All of it, man. And they'll say, hey, this one might kill you and they're like, that's all good. If you don't want wanna die yet, then maybe they shouldn't do that. But you should be able to sign a waiver that says, yeah, like I wanna try LSD or, you know, whatever. I wanna do LSD and heroin if I'm on my deathbed.

At the same time, same time. You might solve all the world's problems, but then you die, see what it doesn't matter. It'd be a fun last 10 minutes if I make it that long. So let's jump from episode one to episode two. Travis Walden is the entire episode. Pretty much. How long's it been now?

45 years. 45 years and three months. But some things don't change, you know. But some things about it haven't gotten any easier at all. I wish that this had never happened. It's not been a good thing for my life, for my family. In some ways they don't even see the real me, you know? What are y'all thoughts on Travis Waldo?

I'd like to ask you guys because you guys were both there for the interview and I was in there, so just from your perspective, I mean you guys met him, like you talked to him for hours, like what were your thoughts met him, like you talked to him for hours, like what was, what were your thoughts about him, like when you met him? I mean, it seemed like he was completely lying. And not, no, I'm kidding. No, I 100% believed him. Like, that was one of the ones, definitely,

but when we were doing the research for the show and pain was like, hey, I'm thinking this case, this case, this case, I was like, I don't know about abduction stuff. You know, I was most on the fence about, not even on the fence, I was on the other side of the fence. I was like, nah, I don't know about abduction stuff. You know, I was most on the fence, not even on the fence, I was on the other side of the fence. I was like, nah, I don't know about abductions. I don't think they're real. I don't see anyone can believe these. After sitting there and talking to,

or recording him, I 100% believed him. Like, there's no way, or he's the biggest scam artist I've ever read about research anything with. He's like World Record holder scammer. If that's true. What was it that really like won your mind over? What convinced you that he was tongue truth? Honestly, just the way he was talking,

the way he was so sincere, the way he was apprehensive about even coming to us, like, he was apprehensive about even coming to us. Like, he wasn't like excited to talk to us. I don't think he, if he had the choice, I think he, if he was not as nice of a person, I don't think he would have done it. I definitely didn't want to talk to us. No.

Fact. It seemed like he was reliving trauma, 100% and it seemed like he didn't want to talk about it. And it just seemed like it wasn't comfortable for him, like all of it. Mm-hmm. I mean, when I read the story on the internet first, I was like, this is so batchit, crazy, that I want to talk to the person who's claiming this happened to them. Like I felt like no matter what, that's gonna be interesting.

If someone's making this totally bizarre wild claim, all these years later too, what's he gonna say about it now, right? And so that was just my general interest at first, but I guess I was kinda taken aback by how serious he was about it. Like, to me, the way that he told the story to us, the way that he was emotionally when he was telling it,

those were all signs of something that I've seen before, in someone who's had, you know, reliving something that was traumatic that happened to them. So, even if he did make it all up, it's like he's somehow reliving this story today, telling us, like it's a memory. And, you know, it's one of those stories where it's so out there, it's almost just easy to dismiss on the surface.

But there's so many different parts to it. And I've seen people online who, you know, are like, he's lying, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, you know, somebody said, I don't know where it was that, you know, he's been proven to have lied. They actually made all this up because they were about to lose their logging contract. I'm like, that's not fucking true.

It isn't. I've researched this case pretty hard. That isn't true. And that's not a good enough reason for 40 plus years, keep up some crazy lie. They don't even work out there anymore. They don't even do that anymore. How much were they even, I feel like they weren't even making that much money to it. Like it wasn't like a, there's no way a logger in 1975 in snowflflake, Arizona, is making shit tons of money. I mean, I don't have the statistics,

but I wouldn't even need to look. It's like, if I'm dead wrong, then that would be interesting. But that doesn't make sense. Yeah, there's no way. There's no way. And also just all of them lying to the police when it got serious, that's like something I found out after the Travis Walton interview,

that was like, okay, well this backs it even more. Like, why would they do that? Why would they all lie about this? Five different accounts, six accounts. Have five or six. Seven total if you're counting Travis. So I've landed on this as a theory. You know, I'll never know for certain if Travis if you're counting Travis. So I've landed on this as a theory.

I'll never know for certain if Travis is telling the truth about what he experienced because I wasn't there. There's nothing he can tell me to really prove it entirely. And there's nothing I can do to really disprove it at this point. But I think that if Travis is making it up, he's only making up the part where he's on the spaceship. I think that without a doubt, all these people on the logging crew

definitely saw something weird in the sky. And Travis did run out there, and then they left and came back and Travis was gone. So if he's making it up, it started right then. And then you have to think, okay, if he did make it up, did he just seize the opportunity? Was he like, oh man, we did see some UFO-looking thing

in the sky that spooked us. Do I hide out for five days and come back with this crazy story? That's one way, but it's just hard to explain where he was. And I think that genuinely, his other crew members didn't know where he was. So he had to been tricking them too. And then you'd have to say, okay, well, where was he?

His brother and his mother were genuinely looking for him. So were they in on it too? Where did he hide for five days? Like what happened? Or did something strike him and he went into some coma state and then just came too? Like that would make more sense than him just saying cool they're gone.

All right, what's my story? I'm gonna live off the land for five days and then come back with this crazy story. What? For what? Why? Yeah, it's not even like media was that big back then. Like there wasn't like a CNN that he could go on,

you know, at that time, right? Like there wasn't this huge thing where he's like, oh, I'm gonna make it big. I'm gonna be on all the shows and, right. What was he gonna be on Johnny Carson? Like, no, what? No. I would be interested to see, knowing the internet this has to exist be on all the shows and we'd be on, right. What was he gonna be on Johnny Carson? Like, no, what, no.

I would be interested to see, knowing the internet this has to exist somewhere, but I'd be interested to see sort of a breakdown of when he started telling the different aspects of his story on a timeline. Like I'd like to see when, if his story has evolved over the years, or if he's told the same story, the same way for what, 50 odd years, or if he's told the same story the same way for what 50 odd years.

Like I'm really interested if his story is made up in response to people pushing back on him, or if even like his first accounts to the police told the entire story as he tells it today. You know, I think that would bring a lot of credence to his accounts from myself anyway. I don't think he's really changed any details throughout the years. Not really. Nothing major word, you's really changed any details throughout the years. Not really. Nothing major word, you know, you be caught in some lie. If anything, I think certain parts

have become more descriptive. Yeah, I was gonna say that. So, which I mean, he could be embellishing those parts and, you know, he's just adding to the story where it's like the classic grandpa talking about walking uphill both ways to school and the snow. And there's always a new detail. You're like bullshit.

Or how big was that fish? You know, was it this big or was it this big? It's like, there could be some of that going on. It doesn't take away the fact, the basic elements of the story that he was on some spaceship. That's like, that part's never changed. Yeah, honestly, what I noticed, because after we recorded them, I listened to the tape

and then I went back to the times he said it before, for that exact reason. I was like, let me see if he changes story. You know, coming from the true crime world, yes, what we would do, we would listen to, how did you tell it to date line and then how are you telling it to us? And is there any weirdness with your story right now?

Is there something you're, you're, I caught you in that lie. There was nothing. He told, did he talk to Barbara Walters? I don't remember now. But he told somebody in the 90s, a couple more details, I'm like, oh dang, he didn't even say that to us.

But like, there wasn't an outlet like you'd have now to tell that story, like immediately in 75 and the middle of nowhere, Arizona. But yeah, what were my thoughts was, if he made it up, I just think that's such a big commitment that would be your life now. He had to commit when he was in his early 20s

that I'm gonna go the rest of my life with this as my identity. And maybe, you know, he did make it up and he regretted doing that in his 30s but had to stick with it because he didn't want to be, you know, labeled a liar. But man, what a big commitment. And one more thing about this story is that there's not a lot of these stories, right? There's not a lot of cases of people, of a mass sighting of different people who were not that close of what seems to be a real UFO in the sky, and then someone being missing for a period of time with a very bizarre story at the end. Now, there's other cases where a lot of people

saw something, but like, there's probably like five cases total where it's like this locked up. So it's an anomaly either way. It's interesting because of those elements. If Travis just came out of the woods himself and said this story, I'd have less reason to believe him. It's because of all of his co-workers who were there who claimed to see the same thing, who were then under suspicion for murder. That to me is gifts credence to it. So if he was tricking anyone,

he was tricking them first. Yeah, and going off of that, I started reading a book, I think it's by Robert Mack, might be John Mack, I can't remember, but it's a book all about abductions. And once I started believing Travis's story, and like, hey, I think he was abducted,

not saying it's aliens, not saying it's, I don't know what it was, but like, maybe it's think he was abducted. Not saying it's aliens, not saying it's, I don't know what it was, but like, maybe it's people that abducted him. Maybe there's some secret government thing that abducted him and did experiments on him. That's too deep. I don't think it was that, but then I started looking at all these other abduction cases

where it was just a single person doing the same thing and like, and it noses with regressive therapy. And having very similar things happen and seeing similar beings, and the author of that book, when I start reading it, he kind of goes into like, I'm talking to people who have never talked to each other, never put their story out there. Like, it's not public knowledge. And they're saying the same thing.

They're having the same kind of encounters. So either this is like a sleep paralysis type thing where it's like, oh, we all see the same thing or like when people trip on DMT, they all see the machine elves or whatever they are. And it's like something just locked deep in our brain that like gets unlocked at this point, but like it is really weird to be a strange coincidence if all these people saw similar beings and there's like, it's like narrowed down to like a few different types of beings and then they do kind of the same thing.

It's like these weird medical things with like, experimentation with tools we've never seen before, but like, kind of a focus on reproductive stuff. I know, it's strange when you added all all up even if he had some like if he had some hypnosis like episode out there Not hypnosis if he had some sort of paralysis episode out there a few state the few state right then he would have had to stumble far enough out of sight

Where when they pretty much very quickly came back to look for him and he wasn't there. And then somehow not kill himself and all those days in the woods and then come to with the story that he believes. That just is a very big pill to swallow if you're taking like that would be, that would be crazy or to me. That could be what happened, but that is fucking crazy. Like seriously. Yeah, it doesn't make anyzier to me. That could be what happened, but that is fucking crazy. Like seriously. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, it's a crazy story.

You know, you can go down this rabbit hole of like, what are the aliens? What's their purpose here? People seeing the same aliens, or they're seeing different aliens, they're from different galaxies. You know, it's once this idea of like these sci-fi elements or aliens gets into the like public sightgeist and everybody

starts to think about it, everybody starts to build on them. You could argue that a lot of these abduction cases, even Travis Walton's, maybe he saw some sci-fi film and he saw something like that. He saw some aliens and an old, the day they were still in 1950s or whatever. He just formulates a story around it, and then just sticks to it and he tells it once, and it's out there, it's in the zeitgeist, and now he has to stick to it forever,

and he can embellish it as the years go on, but he knows that it becomes more and more, it becomes harder to disprove a story the longer he tells it, and because he's been telling it for so long, it's hard to disprove, you know? He's made it bulletproof, he's built the walls around it because he's been telling it for so long, it's hard to disprove. You know, he's made it bulletproof. He's built the walls around. He's made it perfect. And there's always, in this subject, there's always two sides. You know, like you're always

going to have evidence for either. You're going to have evidence. He says this or she says that. But then also somebody in the other side that's always going to be able to disprove whatever they say. And that's the hardest thing be able to disprove whatever they say. That's the hardest thing about researching this is, is the evidence you have good? Is it made up by somebody on the internet? Is it usable? Can you build on it? And you just never really truly know.

No matter how much information you have, you can never really know if it's the truth. One of the problems I think is people instinctually need some sort of deeper reason behind everything. They start asking the questions like you just posed, why are they here? What are they doing? What do they want from us? And I think that's such a naïve take. I think that you're overlooking all the things that are important. If we're talking about some advanced intelligence, then that has to be accounted for when you're thinking

about it. It's like, if we're an elementary school and there's 20 kids out there playing on the playground and 19 of them are super big for their age and could beat any of the other kids' asses and there was one smaller kid who hadn't had his growth spurt yet. They're not gonna all just pick on that kid.

So like, I feel like the idea of the fear of them wanting to do something to us, I think is a little bit, I guess unwarranted. And I also think that it's, how do I say this? I think that we want there to be some special reason because we're so used to being at the top of the food chain. We need there to be some you know romantic reason as to why they're here as if we're going to just join forces and take over the universe together. I think that if you're coming from a place that's so far away, we can't see it,

or close by and we can't see it in crafts that we can't mimic what they do, then you already won. It's like, you know, the car has been around for how long. Like, that was like a 1900s thing. Like, it really became a thing. It's like, we're way so far behind that, that it's just almost,

it's silly to think that they would want anything from us. What would they want? What would we have to offer? Water? I mean, like, for real. I think that you gotta, and I don't know anything, but it's such a small, minded take to feel like if there's some advanced civilization out there that they owe us anything or that they would be interested in us to the point

where we're gonna sit down and have tea and talk about something. They're like, look, we already know all that shit. We know that you guys don't know that shit yet. We're not even gonna talk about it because you won't even believe us. And if we showed ourselves to the world, we already know that you guys would probably end up killing yourselves

because it would just dismantle a lot of our fundamental beliefs. If there's that advance, they would know that. They would. Yeah. We would know that if it was the other way around, right? Absolutely. So it's, I think that's what it is. And shit, they may have seen that before.

They may have, you know, gone to the planet. Oh yeah, don't touch that. It's like the same thing. They're being some, you know, part of a national park where it's like, don't go in there. Don't touch those plants. You know, this is like a sacred, you know, don't mess up their environment in the swamp.

It's, you know, the same idea. It's like if you do,'ll be a ripple effect and the animals are gonna die, right? It's like a, what's the word for that? The like a quarantine? No, like sacred, it's like a, what a reserve? Reserve, yes.

Nature reserve? At nature reserve. Yeah. Sacred nature reserve. Sacred nature reserve. Oh, one of those. It's sacred. No, but I mean. It's sacred.

No, but I mean, it's, yeah, a nature reserve, you can't touch anything, you can't get too close to it, they don't want humans fucking it up. I would think that the aliens would probably think the same way. We're not going to go fuck shit up. And it's just super naive to think that they would need anything from us when clearly they figured out how to go here and back for thousands of years without us knowing for sure they exist. So I mean, that kind of says it all. Yeah. Or we're just insane. And we think there's aliens and there's not. Who knows?

Happy disappointing though. Yeah, that would suck. I mean, it could be other things though. It could be another dimension. It could be some kind of paranormal thing. It could be who knows? It could be us from... I mean, that's a big theory, is that there was a huge apocalyptic disaster.

Like, let's say that's what the flood with Noah's Ark was talking about, right? The whole earth flooded at one point. The smartest of society left. They fled because they're like, oh shit, the world's, we're having a problem, but they had like advanced technology back then. All got wiped away. All the evidence of it. We got a couple people writing little scriptures about it,

but they don't really, you know, gets translated over time, it's a game of telephone, but then they come back. They're like, oh shit, they're dumb again. They're like, damn, these guys haven't grown up at all. They do have a cool new car though, that Lambo looks pretty sick. But anyway, it's Boeing, like here's out of my spaceship.

It's possible, it's possible. I'm Elon, this shit's dope, your shit sucks. Well, and then, so, you know, this has been a theory I've been going with for a while. I've talked to Dylan about this, but this started happening in the 40s, right? We started seeing these and that's probably a round when commercial flights became a thing or that's a round when we started bugging around up there, right? So more often, they're like, maybe they're like, whoa, what are they doing down there? Or whatever, let's say they're in the ocean, they're like, what's going on up there?

How do they get up there? Are they advancing? Let's not touch them like you said. Said sacred reserve. So there's probably an alien or a group of aliens in a UFO at some point in the 30s or 40s, and was like, oh shit, look at that thing. What are they doing up here?

They're like, oh damn it, they figure that part out. Well, gotta treat this shit differently from this point forward. And then eventually, we're up there all the time. Yeah, it's like that would have been a place that we would never be because we didn't even know how to go there or know that we could go there eventually. Yeah, and all the stuff in the past,

if you look at it pretty much every religion, stuff comes from the sky, right? Before we could fly, way before we could fly. They're like, there's stuff up there in the heavens and above us, angels, whatever. All the gods, Greek gods, whatever, they're all up there, right? Maybe they saw more, maybe that's like, maybe they were zipping around up there at one point,

and then we just had leftover stories from that. And now that once we started going up there, they're like, oh, we gotta kinda hide out a little bit. We need to get away, but let's not get spotted by them. Let's let them figure out their thing. Yeah. What are our thoughts on the new stuff? The new reports, the modern day Navy pilot sightings,

the stuff that the Pentagon's talking about, the genesis of the UFO task force. What are our thoughts on these modern-day incidents that are sparking a conversation in 23? So I think it's interesting because I don't even know if I describe them as modern-day incidents. I think it's the same stuff we've always been seeing. I think what makes this unique is that for the first time the government is acknowledging it.

They're acknowledging that they're recording these things off the coasts of America, off the Navy ships, or fighter pilots are recording these really crazy videos of things that none of them can explain. And I like to think that this stuff has always been happening. There's nothing new, maybe even for thousands of years this stuff has always been happening. There's nothing new, maybe even for thousands of years, it's always been recorded in somebody's history.

But I think what's interesting about this and what's unique is that we're finally talking about it. There's a real discussion that's taking place globally. And I think it's really leading to large leaps, like large things that are now changing in the world and big things are happening. But regardless of what happened and what didn't happen in the last 50 But regardless of what happened and what didn't happen

in the last 50 years, what was true and what wasn't true, you could just look at today's incidents in the last 10 years, totally ignore every other story you've heard about an abduction or Roswell, just throw it out, screw it, throw it out. And just look at what's happening today and actually have a interesting and sometimes complex conversation about it

because there's a lot of unknowns. I don't know why the government would create a UFO task force if there wasn't something interesting or abnormal about what they were seeing. I don't think that they're all just big sci-fi buffs. I think that that would be ridiculous. I think that the actual pilots themselves experienced something strange, and that's what prompted all of this to begin with.

And so you can't, you know, you have to, if we're believing Navy pilots, then there's something to explore here. And I'm just curious, you know, what's your take on the modern day stories, you know, the tick-tack, the balloons over Alaska, you know, all that kind of stuff. I think they're in a way losing some control over what could be leaked and what can't be leaked. Like, I think back in the 60s, they had a little more control over what was classified and what wasn't.

Now, certain things are like slipping through the cracks. I don't think it's a giant government cover up per se, mainly because I don't think they understand it. I think they know it. I think they know it's non-human intelligence, or have assumed based on all of the evidence they've collected, but they don't know what it is, or like have an explanation for it, and how do you tell, you know, people who look up to you who are like, okay, what are the answers? Like, what, like,

you know, I mean, like, that that's how people take it. Like, okay, so there's these things in our atmosphere that we don't know what they are. We don't know who's piloting them. We don't know who's in control of them. We don't know where they came from. That's not like, you don't want to tell people that. Like if you're the teacher at a school, you got a bunch of kids and like, you know, ask you something you don't know. Why is the sky blue?

And you're like, actually, I don't have no idea. How do you explain that to them? And then how do they look up to you for the rest of the class and go, oh wait, I thought they were supposed to know everything. I thought they were supposed to have all the answers. I'm not saying governments expected to know all the answers, but if they're presenting these and going, hey, here's some slides of these things.

We've been studying since the 50s, since the 1947 Roswell crash, and we still have no idea what it is. That's like a little concerning. I mean, if they can't figure it out, they can't figure it out. Plus, if that is the case, what it probably is, you know, you don't want your adversaries to know that you don't know. You're going to want them to think that you do know, and they're thinking the same way. They don't want to show their hand and be like, yeah, we have these really cool looking spaceships from 1947, but that thing has not turned on since then. And, you know,

in the event that, you know, Russia or China has won too, and they've been able to turn it on or reverse engineer it, then we just showed our hands, or we showed that we don't know, and now they're going to use the fact that maybe they don't know either, but they're going to pretend like they do. And it's just like this war game shit. It's like you don't want to show your hand, and that's what you ultimately have to do if there's ever going to be some disclosure of UFO alien truth. You're going to have to say that this stuff exists. We know for sure it's not from earth. It's more advanced. We've got this to work and this still isn't working. That's all we know.

That's going to be scary to certain people. I think the younger generation will care less about it, but it'll kind of, you know, mess with some people's fundamental beliefs. And you also signal to your adversaries that you don't know. And I don't think any of the powerful countries in the world are willing to do that yet. Totally, yeah. Nobody wants to show their hand. And ultimately, it's going to be a global effort for something like disclosure to really happen to really come out totally and I think I think we live in a time now where we have all the tools necessary At our disposal to make something like that happen. We have the internet. We have the ability to or anyone can talk to anyone

We can get the data together. We can share it. We can repost it. We can talk about it. We can discuss it and You see these communities like Reddit where a lot of cool stuff comes out, you know, government sanctioned things. There's something that came out that Jeremy Corbell, I see you guys last night, late last night. Yeah, watch that video. It was cool. It was like, it's supposedly... It's pretty weird. Supposedly, it's a leaked video from Congress from the UAP Task Force, showing one of the UFOs in the ocean captured by, one of our Navy destroyers. But that just goes to show you. It's like, personally, I'm not sure that the government

or the military or the people who should be leading disclosure, I really think if it's ever gonna come out because of all those things, because of governments not wanting to lose control or show their hands, I don't think they'll ever give us everything. They'll give us pieces. Disclosure is of no importance if you're someone in the government. Now, as the citizen, you would say, yes, it is. We should know the truth. But they have, they gain nothing

by telling you that they don't know anything. They lose something. They lose something. And they could stand to lose a lot, actually. So I actually, I understand it. It's just frustrating, but there's no benefit in disclosing anything, especially when you only have little pieces to the puzzle, when you don't have everything, that is scarier. So what are your thoughts on the balloon extravaganza of a few months ago? My take on it was that there was so many parts of it that were blatantly contradictory of itself. You know, if you zoom out and you look at what happened

that week, it first started with a balloon in the sky, clearly a balloon. It was white, it was a balloon. Citizens took videos of it, it was flying low enough to be able to actually get like a glimpse of it, and it was immediately determined to be a Chinese balloon. Pretty much immediately. They shot that thing down in American fashion, and they scooped that thing up out of the ocean, and they released pictures of them scooping it out of the ocean. So, okay,

pretty straightforward. Then, not too long after, there was reports of other balloons, anomalies in the sky. The descriptions of them were kind of different, though, and in the course of a couple days, they shot down three more things in the sky that they've, I mean, clearly they felt like they should shoot them down because they were either not supposed to be there or, you know, I don't know, but I look at that and I say, okay, the timing of those two things cannot be a coincidence. I don't think there's some conspiracy here. I think that because it was publicly known that there was a balloon in the sky that hung out

there for several days before we did anything about it, that if there's more anomalies in the sky that we're gonna tell our citizens and the rest of the world that we're gonna have a fast response to stuff like this. And they did. The problem is the description of the third balloon in the sky is not a balloon. And I mean, I don't have it in front of me, but the way they initially described it was kinda like the tick-tack. It was cylindrical and shape, you know,

size of a car or bigger, moving in weird ways. And that means they don't know what it is. Just my theory here, I feel like they seized the opportunity to take that fucker down, to take that thing down. And try to study it. It's weird how there are, you know, lots of pictures of the other balloons. There's even like a 20 megapixel photo

from the cockpit of one of the jets a pilot took of this balloon clearly being a balloon. It's a great shot, it looks pretty cool. It's a selfie. It's a selfie. I mean, that's a badass selfie, but there is nothing at all of the third balloon over Alaska.

And of any of the three after. There's no photo. Yeah, there's no photo. And it's classified. You can't request it. Why would it be classified? If it's the same thing that we all saw publicly from China, why is it classified? Or if it's some, you know, citizens experiment that got out of hand, why would it ever be

classified? Just come out and say, guys, like it's really a nothing burger, it's actually this, unless it wasn't. So my theory on this is that when the first Chinese balloon flew across, you know, it's a surveillance balloon, it flew across the United States basically. People were reporting it and like, Montana and stuff, and they're, they're like, oh shit, that's actually not ours. Let's go ahead and wait until it gets over the ocean. They got over that Atlantic, they shot it down.

And like, maybe we should adjust our radars a little bit. You know, dial them in to like, maybe you filter it out so you don't pick up all these weather balloons that are actually flying around because there's a lot of stuff up in there that's just floating around. That's whether it's a lot of stuff up in there that's just floating around. That's whether it's a hobby thing or, you know, a weather balloon gathering info.

We're studying all kinds of stuff in the sky. Now when they adjust it to like filter out less and allow the smaller things, like, oh, crap, there's, what are all these things we're seeing? And then my theory is that they tried to shoot them down. These three other objects, and they were unsuccessful. And they didn't actually shoot anything else down, but they may have got the, supposedly got the... Well, there was a guy in Alaska

who was taking footage of them, they went to a place in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I'm talking about middle of nowhere Alaska in the Arctic to recover something. So clearly, they went there because something came down, because it wouldn't be, it wasn't an easy place to get to. Now, what if that's a hobby balloon and you just spend a $500,000 missile, side-wanderer missile to shoot it down? That's embarrassing. You know, if it was a hobby balloon, then the hobbyist would come forward and say that was my balloon because it's missing. That hasn't happened.

Well, one, so somebody tried, I don't remember if it was that one or the one over the Great Lakes. Pay me back for my balloon. No, I think it was, I think this was the one over the Great Lakes, but this is one thing that happened. So somebody said, you know, of course, all the news media is like, ran with it. And I get, okay, this explains all of them. They were like, yeah, we did have a weather balloon up around that area that stopped the transponder stop talking to us. It may have been ours over the Great Lakes. I'm pretty sure it was the one over the Great

Lakes. But they're like, they also go down all the time. So it may not have been ours. So maybe, but like, you don't come looking for your balloon, if you're setting up 10 of these and you're like, oh, like three or four of them are gonna fall out of this guy eventually. You don't really, you're not like, where's my balloon, pay me back for my balloon, you know what I mean?

It's like the casualty. I mean, my thing is, since when do we shoot down balloons? I mean, I guess since a couple months ago, we do that now, haven't done it since then, though. Going back on the timeline of when those stories were coming out, I believe it was within a 24-hour period that all three of those balloons, you know, with quotations here, balloons, were shot down, right?

I think it was a week or three or four days, maybe. But it was like every couple days, there was another one, maybe two in a row, but I don't. It was, yeah, can you, yeah, I'll check that out. Yeah, look it up. Either way, it was within a couple days, right? I feel like maybe it was a good time,

like it was a win-win. If the government actually saw something in the sky that looked like it could be some sort of advanced craft, which could come from anywhere, it could have came from China or Russia, right? Or, you know, another planet or a dimension, who knows? If they saw something that, you know, gave those characteristics,

what a perfect time to seize that opportunity If they saw something that gave those characteristics, what a perfect time to seize that opportunity to take it down. So maybe you take that one down and you take down two balloons with it. And it's just super gray now, what happened and then the media just kind of stopped talking about it because, well, there's nothing more for us to learn, you know.

But I think that there's so much, you know, picture evidence of these obvious balloons, but the most interesting one of them all that was conveniently shot down in the middle of nowhere Alaska, what a perfect time to do that. It's like, I'm not trying to speak in conspiracy theory terms. I'm talking about like, what an efficient time to do that. Take down what could be some sort of advanced craft, not saying where it's from, just an advanced craft. Take it down over the middle of nowhere Alaska

where literally no citizen could get to. And do it during the same week that these Chinese balloons are taking over the media and this response could look good. It's like, hey, we're defending our country. We're not gonna have just random things in the sky. We're gonna take them down and it's just like a win-win and You know that theory could be completely debunked if

We saw the photos and read the reports of what it really was and it ended up being some commercial balloon I don't I don't have I don't know that, so I'm having to speculate. But based on the initial reports of what it looked like, how it was moving in the sky, and the lack of information following that makes me think that, uh-oh, I think we shot down something weirder than that. And we're definitely not gonna tell you what it is because they still don't know what it is. They're gonna have to go back channel and go with some

random guy in some department. Like, oh yeah, that guy's familiar with these things, whatever they are. So, I don't know. I just find it very strange that all that happened in the same week. And the most interesting one of them all is the most mysterious one of them all. With the least amount of information, the zero pictures, zero reports, zero concrete evidence, and shot down over

the most, you know, convenient place in America. The middle of nowhere Alaska, we're not a single soul is gonna see what you recover from that Arctic floor. Yeah, like, you know, I really don't think it's a coincidence that all of these things happened in the same week, you know. Like, if you put yourself in the perspective

of the government or the military, or even like somebody like President Biden, you know, like, you get this report of, hey, the Chinese are flying a spy craft over America right now. What are you gonna do about it? You know, he's gonna make a split second decision, he's gonna give the military something to do.

And we have this huge military, we don't wanna look globally like these people who just let China just spy in our airspace. We're supposed to have the greatest air force in the world. We're supposed to have our skies locked down. So when something like that does happen, whether or not it was an accident by China or it was on purpose, who's to say,

but the fact is it happened. I've also, I've said this theory to other people before, like just like at a bar or something. And someone who is against the idea, their immediate response is, well, if they're so advanced How could we shoot them down? Okay, you know good point I'm like what if what they shot down is just some you know basic drone thing

That's unmanned that's just Still out there doing a job that it doesn't even do anymore and it's just like they're doing a job that it doesn't even do anymore. And it's just like dinking around out there. I think that an F18 could totally just go potentially, they could also miss, but like, it's not impossible to take it down, I don't think. It's like, I'm not saying it's like a bunch of aliens like, we're at war with them

and they're like not able to dodge a missile. I think that it's probably some sort of like, like listen to what Avi Loeb was saying, where he thinks that some of these, you know, UFOs or maybe self-generating drones from so far away, and they're just, they're still doing a thing. They could be from some civilization that's long lost, and like, its mission is over. And it's just out there, it just still works, but it's like not really relevant anymore. And that to me would make sense of how you could potentially shoot down some advanced technology, not saying that's correct.

Also I'm not even saying that the government should come forward necessarily and say what they shot down. I'm just pointing out the fact that I think it's more interesting than they're saying it is. And if anything, I get kind of excited about that because it looks like at least the government and the military are reacting to these things now. Admitting to reacting to them, you know? Admitting to reacting to them. It probably have been all along, but of course. But they're signing out these things now. Admitting to reacting to them, you know? Admitting to reacting to them.

They probably have been all along, but of course. But they're signing out about it now. Yes, and so I think that no matter what it is, it's like the whole point of this conversation about UFOs is there's stuff in this guy that we don't know what it is. So that's really all we're trying to figure out here. You know, the idea of there being aliens

from another planet, that's a fun one. I like that idea, but that doesn't take away from the search or the mission. That's, you know, I don't want that to necessarily be the answer. I think it's just a possibility. And so if you start, you know, actually trying to crack the code here and solve the mystery of the unknown objects in the sky.

Then maybe you'll get closer to finding out what some of these other anomalies are that seemingly do stuff that defies our technology. You want to hear the time on I do okay so Wednesday February 1st. Chinese spy balloon is spotted above Montana right February 4th three days, three days later, shot down by an F-22 off the coast of South Carolina. So three days it covered the whole US. February 9th, first UFO is detected off coast of Northern Alaska, the one you were talking about. February 10th, that one is shot down by an F-22 over dead horse, Alaska. Saturday, February 11th, a day later. Second UFO is shot down by an F-22 over

Yukon, Canada. This supports my theory, actually. It was the weird one first. It's like, okay, seize the opportunity we just shot down a balloon, shoot that fucking thing down, whatever the hell that is, because we're responding to these things now, and shoot down two other commercial balloons that we can easily prove or something that's, you know, completely nothing burger. The third one, the third one, NORAD claims it was a radar anomaly. So is that the national... In all that happened in what span of time?

It was not a week, right? Not the first one, like, I don't care about the first one. That we obviously... Oh, 9, 10, 11, 12. Yeah, four days in a row. February. Yeah.

This timeline's really important, right? Because like... It is. This idea of like the Chinese weather balloon being the first, it really shows you like where the mindset of the military was. Once they realized there was something invading our airspace, and now America knows about it, everybody in the world knows about it,

they go on high alert, and they say, okay, there's something in airspace, we need to really double our efforts and look for anything else that's invading our airspace right now. We need to make sure China's not launching another bloom, or they're not using this opportunity to find holes in our defenses. And you can imagine in that scenario,

when they're on high alert, they're pointing everything they have, all their radars and everything into our skies, they start to see all these other little things popping up at the exact same time in the same three day period. And they go, oh, there's another one. What is that? We don't know what that is.

Shoot it down. Let's get rid of it. You know what? I want to reiterate that I don't think that the government as a whole is all knowing or something, we're like, okay, like we're just going to collectively trick our citizens into thinking this. I think it could have been something very casual like President Biden.

There's a report of something else in this guy and he's like, shoot it down. And they're like, well, sir, it's actually, it's kind of got characteristics of XYZ, something that's kind of, that incinuates that it's advanced craft of some sort, it okay, shoot it down anyways, and then shoot down two more things while you're at it. Cause like, okay, it's like that happened when that was February, okay, And it is mid May. So there have been no more balloons in this guy since then.

No chance. So why was it important that week and that week only? I think because there was a balloon that showed itself to the public that was clearly a Chinese balloon and the US government made that known pretty much immediately. It was shot down and then other things were shot down right after that that I think were taking advantage of the timing. And they also could have went to, like I'm not even saying that like, I mean, because the president has to give the order

to do that, right? Which somebody recently, or not recently, during when all this was happening, somebody went on TV and was like a Navy pilot and said like, it's very strange for the president to make the call on shooting something down. It's like, that doesn't happen. That's like, war shit.

Yeah. So my point is though, I'm not even saying that the president knew what he was shooting down. I think that they probably didn't know exactly, but it was similar enough to these other reports, why is it like almost a carbon copy description of the tick-tack? It is. Pull up the initial description of that thing. The one over Alaska.

Mm-hmm. Because I know he's having to work car. Because that's a, it was like ATV or something. Yeah. It's weird. He specifically, because that's a, it was like ATV or something, it's weird. He specifically said it was not a balloon. And then they took that out of the, they reported, they retroactively deleted that part from the minutes of him talking.

And when they already just, they just be like, oh, oops, that was not really, that was an accident. Like, you know, it's not some super, it's not some big conspiracy. It's just a little thing you can do real quick. They kinda just, you know, little smoke amirs just enough to buy some time

to figure out this shit. Like that's what you're doing, right? Like that's what I would do if I was in charge of making sure they didn't know. Am I okay, like a little smoke amirs here, you know, make sure that line's not in the report and some interns are like, are you sure?

Yes, or you're fired. Okay. It's weird how reminiscent it is to Roswell. It's like our present day Roswell for New Age, it's super simple, but it's crazy to think like a little word change like that could have huge ramifications, like changing a flying disc to a weather balloon in 1947,

you know, expands. The reason why I still think about it is because if it was just nothing, it's in their best interest to prove that it was nothing. It would be, show us that it was a balloon. Show us the evidence. They took pictures. Then I'll shut up and like, yeah, I was,

you know, I was a little out there on that one. I was, you know, I was speculating a little too hard, but like they would have that information. So they would share it. And unless it was something that would be concerning, confusing, or alarming, or puzzling, then they would share it. Yeah. And that's something, this idea of like making things top secret because of national security implications

is something that Brian Bender talks a lot about. He talks about a lot of time that, I think Leslie King did as well, that the government's MO is always to classify, classify, classify, classify. Yep. And I mean, ultimately, that's the reason why we haven't seen any pictures or any video of these things. They definitely have Yep. And, I mean, ultimately, that's the reason why we haven't seen

any pictures or any video of these things. They definitely have it, and they have it in HD quality. You know? But they're always going to say, even if it was a weather balloon, if it was absolutely nothing, if it was a commercial, private, funded weather balloon, we'll probably still never see it, because they don't want us to know, because they would rather have it classified

and not have to worry about the implications or the ramifications down the road of giving away anything. It isn't even always about the craft itself, if it were weather-bloon. They may not want you to know that they've got a satellite that could zoom in 10,000 times and see something super clearly on the ground. That may be what they took a picture with. They don't want our enemies to know that we have that up there. You just don't know what the national security implication is, but that's a lot of reasons why we have so little evidence

on the government. But wouldn't it be okay to say, hey, we shot something down of our own and everything's fine, but like it's classified. Is that just giving away too much to the adversaries? No, but I think saying that people naturally would say, prove it, show us how you know that. And then if they say, we can't do that, then you're kind of just back at square one, and you've done nothing really.

So why even give that information away? Why not just say, it's classified and move on? It just bothers them to me because it was a very short period of time and less than a week that they treated one incident this way and another one differently. They treated one where they blatantly said what it was, showed off with high quality pictures, what it was, and video, and that they had shut it down and scooped it up,

and then 24 hours later, it's something similar and silence. Totally. So yeah, they said it was cylindrical and silverish gray about the size of a small car. So why would, like, you could even argue that that could be a balloon, well why would a balloon way out there be of interest

unless it wasn't? And I remember, if I remember correct, Why would a balloon way out there be of interest unless it wasn't? And I remember, if I remember correct, then it could be wrong. So fact check me on this. But this thing was moving pretty quick, right? Like wasn't the jet struggling to keep up with it? Are there like matching speed, which would have been like 400 miles an hour?

Is there a description of how it moved? Or did they say that it was stationary? I could be wrong. They didn't say it was stationary. I don't think well They do say it seemed to be floating without any sign of propulsion and was at the whim of the wind, but That could be it. They said Did not have enough information to determine if it was balloon-like They said it wasn't manned

Mmm, let's see It interfered with the pilot's plane sensors. That's the weird part. That's the weirdest part in my life. Interfeared? So not picked up on the radar. Oh, and then also the interfered with. Pilots couldn't figure out how it was staying in the air, which seems to rule out balloon.

Hmm. So no propulsion, not a balloon. Silver metallic. Puzzling our pilots who are flying the most advanced craft that we know about in the world. That's interesting. And it's even more interesting that they closed the book on it immediately after when days before they were an open book about allegedly the same thing. immediately after, when days before, they were an open book about, allegedly the same thing. Just saying.

Yeah, it's bizarre, you know, I really think that it was just, it was a situation where they got in over their head, they, you know, they saw this balloon, they used to shoot it. But they still wanted it. Oh, absolutely. Like, they knew they needed to shoot down the balloon

and they did, but because so many people's eyes are now in the sky watching everybody at that time. Remember everybody's got their phones that everybody's looking in the sky, hoping another balloon's going to fly over their state and they can get a video of it. Knowing so many people are watching the sky, they've got to double their efforts to make sure nothing else is going to fly through the sky. Nothing's going to fall on a town, kill somebody. So they're just on a higher alert.

They see these other things. The other thing that I remember from the article that was interesting is the reason they decided they needed to shoot these down was because there was, it was flying an elevation that was dangerous to commercial aircraft. So, it was the flyer? So, it was the TickTex. Yeah, exactly. All these things seem to fly around like 40,000 feet.

So, when you say that and you say, okay, we don't know what this is, it's not coming up in like the FAA's database of approved things that should be in the skies. It's on our radars because we've tuned them differently to like check for these things now. What do we do with it? We gotta, we gotta err on the side of caution and get it out of the sky because if it interviews with the plane and kills 400 people, that's gonna be a much bigger deal than if we just can shoot something down with one missile somewhere in Alaska, right? Whether or not it's an alien or not, from that perspective, being in the military, you have a responsibility to the citizens to get rid of it, to get it out of there. And it's very likely that if it were a UFO, even if it weren't, if they suspected that

it were, they'd want to shoot it down and collect it, you know, if there's something they could learn from it, if they could develop our Air Force better, give us better technology, you're obviously gonna wanna do that every time. I think that's what happened actually. I think so too, I subscribed to that. Yeah. They also said it wasn't an aircraft per se. Per se.

It's more like a disc. It's getting like a hovercraft. I mean, it is uncanny how similar the description is to the Tick-Tack though. And it's like, I mean, it is uncanny how similar the description is to the tic-tac though. Um, and it's like I would, I'd totally eat it if I was wrong. And it was just some balloon. And I would just say, well, you know, there were things that you said that made me think otherwise, you know, maybe be a little more clear on your description to the public of what it is.

But I think it, I don't think it's that deep. I think it's probably is what it is. And on the surface, I don't have to go very far to think, eh, it's a little weird. I think that they shot down something that was, you know, a little more interesting than the other things. And they don't wanna tell us about it because they don't fully know either. Yeah.

To build on this and also tie it back into another episode, when we talked to Ryan Graves, he mentioned being out on, I think it was the Atlantic Ocean somewhere like 60 miles out, and for years, he would see these things off the coast of America. And there have been reports from the Navy from both coasts that these things that, I mean, exactly match that description, just float out in our modest.

I mean, in like several, I don't know how many, I think they said they had like six on the TikTok video. Like these things just seem to float out 100 miles off our coast. And if they're out there and they've been there since, if I remember, he said since like 2014 is when he first started seeing them. It's likely these things are all over the world,

you know, maybe in hidden places or places where there's not heavy population, but the odds that we shoot down two in a week, it's, it maybe it's not crazy that they're there, maybe they're all over the place. And we just happen to see those two because we are looking. Yes, exactly. So I think you're right about that.

The thing that makes me just most like, this was in a balloon balloon is that they were scrambled on in the most expensive jets, right? They did visuals, got images, right? Definitely took photos of it, shot it down, maybe, maybe they didn't, they say they recovered pieces of it, but when John Greenwald requested any images or photos or videos from these events, they're all classified. So why? Why, like, is it some secret Russian or Chinese thing that we can't see?

Which why can't we see? We can't even see the debris of it. Like that, it's very, very fishy that they're not just like, hey guys, it was just a balloon. Here's some pictures of it. Because a few days ago, you guys basically told us that you will show us. Hey, look, this is that balloon, and we got it for you, America.

And it was the Chinese, and we, you know, we showed them. And it's like, okay, then just a few days later, the complete opposite, that tells me that it's something different, something more important in some sort of way. And what if it was theirs, right? It was some secret, some blunder, like government. Yeah.

That was Joe's. Weather balloon. It's always a weather balloon. No, I meant like, let's say it was skunkworks or something. And there's so many damn weather balloons up there. Why can the meteorologists get the rain right? I mean, I'm like, at this point, it's just, maybe weather balloons didn't really work that well

or something? It was a primitive idea. Some meteorologist is gonna tweet at me. Like, actually, and that's fine. Like, I actually don't know, please tweet at me. But I'm like, weather balloon. That seems like an archaic thing at this point. I'm sure we still use them, but like, they're not getting the weather from that, are they?

I don't think so. I think after a hundred years, people would just stop losing their weather balloons. There's too many damn weather balloons to not have more accurate weather. It's true. Seriously. Well, it's aliens in there here. So before we wrap up this roundtable, I want to figure out a way to keep this podcast going, keep high-strange going, keep talking about this stuff, right?

And obviously I want to do a second season of some sort. I want to be able to dive into more cases, interview more people, even expand it beyond America. I've had a lot of questions from people saying, well, I was compelled by the podcast, but it seems like it might just be an American thing. And I totally get that. It does on the surface kind of seem that way. But, you know, just from our basic research, it's happening all over the place.

And there's other stories that are, in some ways even more compelling than what we told in this series that have happened all over the globe. And so, one, I want to do a second season, the way, like season one, where it's a deep dive into this concept, this idea, and talk to the people who have witnessed things, and really, you know, challenge their stories, put together the evidence and lay it out there for the listener to decide for themselves and just expand on it a little deeper.

Now that we've had our introduction to the topic, let's dive even deeper. Now that we're not thinking about just the basics of whether or not this is interesting to you. But at the same time, it took us, shit, at least a year and a half to make high-strange. Logistically, it was hard traveling all over the country to talk to these people, but the cool part about it now is that if it's so many people email us and you reach out to us with their stories and All the people that I've met along the way other journalists have kind of plugged us into the pipeline a little bit which has been really cool and

We'll have a lot better more efficient access to do a season two all that to say What do we do in the interim? I feel like we should keep talking about this stuff, like us. And we decide, we should decide right now to commit to a season two and just dive head first in again and in the meantime we should talk about the subject like a traditional podcast and I kind of want to get just a temperature from the listeners You know those out there hearing this like

Would that be of interest to you? Would you listen to that? If you would, then I think that we could keep going and also have on tons of guests. I mean, we have so many people we've met and there's probably unanswered questions even from us on certain guests that were on season one that we could dive a little deeper into

and just keep the conversation going and evolving and not get stale. So I wanna know from the listeners, those out there hearing this, would you want us to keep going and talk about this in this way while we put together a buttoned up season two? Would you do that? If the answer is no, it's all good.

But I feel like, selfishly, selfishly, I want to do it because now this topic, I can't get it out of my head. And I feel like we could offer a different sort of approach to this just like the podcast was before, but why just shut it down and wait? Why not keep talking about it? We might be able to find more interesting stuff to put in season two. I don't know what are your thoughts still on? Yeah, I mean, the podcast itself is, it's such a unique look into this subject.

It comes from a really unique place, which is very fact-based, very evidence-based, talking to people who are very reputable people, you know, and a lot of people in this space, nothing against them, because it is fun to talk about. But a lot of people just love to talk about the outer limits, you know, the wild side of this,

the crazy things, you could never prove or disprove. And that's fun to talk about. But I think what's really gonna push this conversation forward is stuff like this, high-strange as a podcast, and even this round table, it's like this is unique even on top of that in that it's much longer form.

We've been going for an hour and a half, just shooting the shit talking about whatever. No wonder I have to pee. Yeah, tell me about it. Geez. But I kind of, shotgun the first upstairs bathroom. I'm serious, I might make it at all. I'm sure, I've had like four bottle waters

in the past like three hours. Yeah, that's why I keep an empty bottle. I'm too hydrated. I'm over hydrated. Yeah, but it's a, it's a cool platform, you know? So I hope we get to keep doing it and get to expand on it, because it'd be a lot of fun. Yeah, if you're a game as a listener to keep hearing

us ramble and also have some cool interviews and unpack some details for real, then I would love to know your thoughts on that and we'll promise you a badass second season and we'll update you right here along the way. Do we have like a tip line or something people can email? Ooh, I've got a pain's phone number.

We have to give the phone number. Yeah, it's three, I'm scared. So I'm just going to be like, cool. So if it starts with three, and you almost said one, but what, what are the, could you do that? Could you figure out? And be a lot of combinations. We talk good luck.

If you call me and that's how you found it, then I'll talk to you for real. Well, I'll pass it to you. Anyway, yeah. We'll put it in the, we can just add that. Like, we should make a number. I think that I actually would, I would love to talk to listeners about this.

I also want more opinions in the room. More takes. I think that, you know, we made this podcast, not really having a fully formulated take on this. And it's a ever evolving thing in my head and I want to talk to tons of different people all walks of life and just kind of get there two cents like What are your thoughts on this? How does this make you feel? You know what kind of theory do you have like?

let's just spark the discussion and maybe we'll get somewhere through that. You know, no one's right or wrong here. It's just, it's an unsolved mystery. It's still unsolved, but it's going to stay that way unless we talk about it, even if we learn tomorrow that it's all fake, which I think would be impossible at this point, I think that we would have probably helped push it to that answer still. So regardless of what it is, I think until we know for certain, a healthy conversation wouldn't hurt.

Mike, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think you should also send in all of your hate mail. If the answer's no. I'm gonna get 100 emails of people saying, hell no, dude. I don't wanna hear you talk, go make that show. And you guys are gonna be like, so what do they say? I'm like, dude, they really dig it. They love this idea.

And I'm like, oh my God, I gotta tell them. Well, the thing is, if they'd listened this far into this episode and sent a, then you're lying, you're lying, you listen to it and you liked it. So you're getting more into that. I mean, of course, and here's the thing, I would probably get annoyed

if hearing myself to be honest. But I feel like it could be interesting to get a little insight on, you know, even us just making the stamp thing. It's, and we'll give you some nuggets. We'll spoil some stuff for you, you know, not too much, but like, enough for you to stay interested. But I'm like, it'd be kind of cool

if we just decided, you know, we didn't know what was gonna happen with high-strange. We didn't know if people would like it, if it was, you know, if if people would like it, if it was too kooky, if it was not interesting enough, but I think now that it's the last episode is out, where do we go from here? I want to make a second season even better than the first. But how do we keep this thing alive, you know, between now and then? Maybe we just meet every week or once a month or I don't know what it is and just kind of shoot the shit about this kind of stuff and further unpack the details of season one

and also bring back all these guests and invite the listeners to ask questions and just make it an open conversation that I think could be a lot of fun. And we might learn something, maybe not, but it does sound fun, you know? Mike, he haven't said very much. Mike's just like, mm-hmm. I'm just thinking of Mike. Mike sure. I think I'm a good joke

He's like what's funny that I could say I think we do it. I think it's gonna be an endless topic that's I'm fully consumed in it since before we you know start researching it for high-strange I was kind of really into UFOs aliens aliens, high-strange-ness. I would really like Bigfoot. All kinds of things. You like him? I like him, I've met him. Okay.

He's a nice guy. Yeah, no, I'm fascinated with all the unexplained, even with people who go missing without a trace. That's fascinating. Any mystery in the world, like you, I'm just like you where I love the Twilight Zone, I love the unexplained, the mysterious, the out there stuff, I'm very into it,

so I can talk about the stuff all day every day, and I enjoy to talk about it. So yeah, I won't send you hate mail saying don't do it. I'll try not to. Okay. You're gonna do it, yeah. I'm like this, bro, I know this is a fake email address. It still has, I can see it.

It's, I still on your phone. Myju. Not mic at gmail.com. Yeah, okay. So yeah, please email us, tell us your thoughts. Send us an email at tipsathy estranged.com. I'm going to go make a phone number for this and I'll add it after this round table. But tell us what you think and we're pretty energized about doing a second season.

I think that it'd be super fun and there's so much more to explore. If you guys are down for that, we'd love to hear your thoughts on that. And would you entertain hearing us shoot the shit for a little bit in between then? If we gave you some cool stuff, right? Secrets. Secret information. 1 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd Thank you. you